By on May 26, 2022

While plug-in vehicles are catching on in Europe, representing 21 percent of all new registrations in the first quarter of 2022, they’ve been less popular in the United States. Only about 5.2 percent of American registrations were of the plug-in variety (representing hybrid and purely electric vehicles) during the same timeframe. Despite the industry spending billions to develop and market these vehicles, with some progress being made, the overall take rate within North America remains underwhelming.

Ardent fans of battery based powertrains will undoubtedly disagree. But a couple of studies came out this month that drove the point home. Autolist’s Annual Electric Survey dropped earlier this month, effectively outlining why EVs haven’t been able to make more headway in the states. 

Having surveyed more than 1,300 American car buyers, Autolist determined that there are several key factors prohibiting the segment’s growth. Some of the reasoning has changed within the last 12 months. However, despite the surging energy prices, people’s general acceptance hasn’t changed all that much. This was reinforced by a recent J.D. Power study that reported 24 percent of its 10,030 respondents (surveyed between Feburary and April) said they were “very likely” to buy an electrified car. But that represents a modest increase of just 4 percentage points over the last year — something it attributed to the forthcoming deluge of battery electric pickups.

Ed. note: After publication, Autolist boss David Undercoffler sent us the 2022 survey. It’s linked here.

The actual take rate has been smaller, representing something like a 2.5-percent increase of national EVs sales between Q1 of 2021 and 2022.

Autolist suggested this was down to a few key factors — with the limitations of all-electric range taking being the most important. Roughly 61 percent of surveyed individuals said this was the main reason they would avoid purchasing an electric car. Price also played a role, with 50 percent of respondents saying EVs were simply seen as too expensive. Charging was the third biggest item, with 49 percent citing long charging times and a lack of infrastructure to support the vehicles on a level akin to what’s already available for gasoline (or diesel) automobiles.

Charging and range are of particular interest to those driving in the United States or Canada. Americans have historically driven more miles per year than anyone else in the entire world. This is due largely to the geography of the region and Dwight D. Eisenhower’s Interstate Highway System helping to supplant rail travel. But cheap, accessible gasoline and tons of fueling stations dotted around the country hasn’t hurt. As such, 70 percent of the people Autolist spoke to said charging at home would be an “essential” factor in the decision to purchase an electric car.

I suppose the good news is that range anxiety is likely to come down as vehicles continue improving battery capacities. There also doesn’t appear to be much of a social stigma around owning an EV — with just 3 percent of respondents suggesting embarrassment might keep them from buying one. David Undercoffler, editor-in-chief of Autolist, suggested the other issues may also resolve themselves as time went on.

“Two years is a long time in the world of electric vehicles, and buyers today have more models to choose from and more places to plug them in,” he said. “That’s helped ease concerns about price and charging while pushing range to the top of their list.”

From Autolist:

Shoppers’ reduced concerns about EV prices are likely from two factors.

For one, battery technology has continued to get cheaper. In 2019, the average cost per kWh was about $157. By 2020, that had dropped to $140, according to Bloomberg. By 2023, it’s estimated that battery packs will average $101 per kWh, making battery electric vehicles as cost-effective and profitable as their gas counterparts.

While most consumers aren’t keeping close tabs on these trends, they are helping to erode the perception that EVs have to cost more.

Secondly, consumers in 2021 are faced with an ever-growing number of EVs to choose from. These include the Tesla Model Y, Volkswagen ID4, Ford Mustang Mach-E, and the Volvo XC-40 Recharge.

While these newcomers aren’t necessarily cheaper than what was available in 2019, the new additions are closer to well-known gas models in terms of size, vehicle type, execution, and perceived value than earlier electric cars were.

This is confusing because the outlet literally goes from discussing how EVs are getting cheaper, to stating that the latest models “aren’t necessarily cheaper.” Worse yet, they may not actually become more affordable in the coming years. Battery prices are set to balloon by at least 22 percent between now and 2026. That may not sound earth shattering in itself. But the batteries that go into all-electric vehicles frequently represent the single largest per-car expenditure for the manufacturer and prices seem to have bottomed out for the time being. Though this may not matter if other material prices spike by similar levels (which seems possible) or people decide that buying a slightly more expensive EV is worth it in the long run.

“Car buyers are less price-sensitive about EVs when the models you’re showing them look like the gas vehicles they already know,” said Undercoffler. “So a Ford Mach-E feels more value-oriented today because it looks like many other non-electric crossovers in the $40,000 – $50,000 range.”

“Consumers had a harder time making that math work several years ago when the only non-luxury EVs they saw were small hatchbacks that cost $40,000 before incentives,” he added.

Something tells me this goes beyond a matter of perception, however. A majority of respondents indicated they wouldn’t be willing to wait more than 30 minutes to restore 300 miles of range on an EV — with a third saying they wouldn’t even bother waiting that long. Presently, this is only achievable via the latest and greatest DC fast-charging points speckled around the grid. While one might believe this will be remedied as the technology evolves, engineers have noted that placing cells under higher charging loads is likely to diminish their lifespan. This has been one of the biggest issues holding back solid-state batteries. However researchers at Harvard University’s School of Engineering and Applied Science now believe its possible to allow them to take on high levels of charge (shortening wait times) without upsetting their chemistry. The automotive industry is also working on this. But it’s difficult to trust that a breakthrough is right around the corner when we’ve been fed that line for years.

[Images: JL IMAGES/Shutterstock]

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148 Comments on “Survey Suggests Americans Still Doubt EVs [UPDATED]...”


  • avatar
    Fred

    The closest charging station to me is 90 minutes out of my way. But what I want is range extender EV that can take me 500 miles before I run out of generator or charge. It’s also got to be under $50,000, maybe $1000 for charging station at home, and since the power goes out here a few times a year, (8 days in a row, last year) I’d like to charge the house too. Oh and you better hurry up, I’m 70 years old and if you can’t get it to me soon, well I’ll just keep my old Acura.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      @Fred–Me to I am 70 and I don’t have decades to wait.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      @Fred,
      “The closest charging station to me is 90 minutes out of my way.”

      If your home doesn’t have electrical service, than an EV probably isn’t for you.

      Most EV charging occurs at home, at night, while you sleep. Charging stations are only for road-trips.

      At least if you live in a part of the United States civilized enough to have electrical service, anyway.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        @Fred,
        The infrastructure issue you *should* be looking at are if those charging stations support road-trips to your usual destinations.

        For instance, are are there charging stations over the river and through the woods that support your trip to Grandma’s house?

    • 0 avatar
      tonyd

      Fred i am 73. You don’t need to wait. My 2021 ford escape PHEV was 33,500 minus 6400 fed tax credit minus 5,000 state rebate.
      MY NET COST 22,000. Just filled up today for the first time since 3/4/22. 6.8 gals for 2122 miles. The dash says i have 47 miles of battery and 496 miles of range on gas.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “Just filled up today for the first time since 3/4/22. 6.8 gals for 2122 miles. ”

        For those curious, that’s 312 miles per gallon.

        A hybrid Escape would have used 51 gallons and a non-hybrid Escape would have used 71 gallons of fuel.

        This leaves no doubt that the appropriate vehicle to be investing in, from a manufacturer and legislative level, is PHEVs. They truly are a game changer. EVs are a boondoggle.

    • 0 avatar
      jalop1991

      “But what I want is range extender EV that can take me 500 miles before I run out of generator or charge.”

      Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid.

      Best of all worlds.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    A survey taken this week at my home indicates that Americans (2 of us) have noticed that gas prices are pretty high. Our ‘big’ Memorial Day trip will be a little over 100 miles each way. So electric would work just fine. On the other hand, the total cost of gasoline for that single trip won’t bust the budget. Does this make me ambivalent?

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      No, you’re not ambivalent – you’re just being prudent. Even at our current Euro-level gasoline prices, it doesn’t make sense.

      The Europeans have had high gas prices, and now high diesel prices, and that finances a good public transportation system that works in tiny western Europe. For occasional trips, electric vehicles make more sense – until they run out of electricity.

      In America, we’ve seen high fuel prices before, only to see them go down again, and Euro-style mass transit doesn’t work in America’s wide open spaces west of the Mississippi, or even along the eastern seaboard (Try driving from Ohio to Disneyworld in Florida).

      I drove from Massachusetts to my Navy assignment in San Diego, and it was 3,215 miles. Drive from London through the chunnel southeastward that distance, and you’ll end up somewhere near Baghdad, Iraq.

      America’s long distances and history of being an oil producer, not importer (In 1941, 70% of global oil production was American) means we’ll continue to have the cheapest motor fuel on the planet, if the government doesn’t get in the way.

      • 0 avatar
        zerofoo

        Another trend we’ve noticed: My wife and I now primarily work from home. An EV would suit most of our travel needs just fine – except for the fact that we have two paid for ICE powered cars and we don’t drive very much. Gas prices could double and not really affect our budgets very much at all.

        Ironically, now that we drive much less an EV investment makes even less sense for us.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      Before leaving this morning I tried out a couple of EV trip planners just to see what our 200+ miles might look like in an EV. 2/3 of the hundred miles out was on interstate (with significant elevation changes) before swerving off into the sticks.

      One of the trip planners said no charging required regardless of WHAT parameters I used – i.e., it was a total garbage answer that would get me stuck in the wilderness if relied upon.

      Another trip planner gave conflicting information about whether a key charger is actually up and running or “temporarily closed.”

      My best guess regarding today’s ‘easy’ four hours in the car (with no significant destination charging available):
      • Likely would have been relatively straightforward in a Tesla*
      • Could have turned into a nightmare with a non-Tesla EV

      * I continue to be impressed with the (well-chosen) locations and numbers of Tesla charging stations I run across in my travels (I’m not looking for them, but there they are — more and more frequently)

  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    I’d buy an electric Golf R if it weighed no more than 3200 pounds, had 350 miles of range, 0-60 in 4 seconds or less, for under $50K.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      You KNOW the batteries would add 800 lbs for that range, though the 0-60 time is possible. Buying one with that performance and range for under $50k would leave no profit margin for VW, so that’s out. Would you settle for two out of four?

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    This isn’t surprising. Americans can smell a rat and EVs are, in their current form, extremely inferior to ICE vehicles. That is just a fact.

    Eventually EVs will catch up to ICE vehicles. And hopefully by then, EVs will provide an actual benefit to the environment vs the vaporware benefits we have now.

    • 0 avatar
      Master Baiter

      “EVs are, in their current form, extremely inferior to ICE vehicles. That is just a fact.”

      I would call that more of an opinion.

      If you have a garage for charging, live where gas is relatively expensive, and have another vehicle for road trips, an EV could be superior. Personally I’m holding off because EVs are evolving too rapidly now; whatever you buy today will be eclipsed by something better in two or three years.

      • 0 avatar
        stuki

        “…and have another vehicle for road trips,”

        That’s the issue BEVs face. BEVs can very often fill the second car niche perfectly well. Often better than an ICE, for many. In a smaller car optimized for city/suburban driving, the BEV need be no heavier than a similar ICE. Battery no more expensive than an ICE powertrain.

        Of course, such perfectly rational purchasing behavior, is exactly what is being prevented from taking place naturally, by the, as always 100% retarded, intervention by governments: Taking money from some to hand to others, this time in the form of “BEV incentives.” Which instead leads to massive resource misallocation wasted on overgrown, over heavy, overly powerful, pointless PC equivalents of jacked-up coal-rolling pickups for the San Francisco set.

        For going faster than 65, and further than 150, batteries are simply a dumb-as-f mode to store energy. While for stop-and-go, and range less than 50, ICEs are the ones which are wasteful.

        Left to it’s own devices, the world’s people would perfectly well figure that one out on its own, and incorporate that into their purchasing patterns. But of course, with them doing so, no self promoting morons would be able to grandstand and pretend he “cares” about anything whatsoever other than his own pathetic “career” and similar. which is exactly the sole and only reason why nothing, including automobile energy storage, is anymore left to be rationally determined by actual users instead of despicable, incompetent clowns on the make.

        • 0 avatar
          jalop1991

          “For going faster than 65, and further than 150, batteries are simply a dumb-as-f mode to store energy. While for stop-and-go, and range less than 50, ICEs are the ones which are wasteful.”

          To quote the waiter on the beach at the end of Trading Places, “Why can’t we have both?”

          Plug-in hybrid solves all the problems.

          • 0 avatar
            stuki

            “Plug-in hybrid solves all the problems.”

            It does t some extent. But at the cost of quite a bit of complexity/cost/weight increasing redundancy. For certain single-vehicle usage patterns, they likely make sense. I remember Toyota guys claiming it wouldn’t take many longer, beyond all-electric range, trips; before the added weight/cost of the plugin extras, outweighed the benefits of the plugin Rav4 vs the standard one.

            For all the households, in America at least, who have two (or more) cars, and live and drive in and around cities: A more efficient strategy may well be to have one ICE car for mostly longer range driving. Then one of more BEVs for others who needs a car primarily for shorter, commuting type duties. Or some such.

          • 0 avatar
            jalop1991

            about plug-in hybrids solving all the problems, stuki wrote:

            “It does t some extent. But at the cost of quite a bit of complexity/cost/weight increasing redundancy.”

            Tell me the second car in your life doesn’t have a HIGHER cost of quite a bit of complexity/cost.

            That the plug-in hybrid doesn’t perfectly solve the problems doesn’t mean it doesn’t solve them better than using two cars, even if each one of those perfectly solves its own problem.

            Too many people are hung up on “yeah, well, PHEV doesn’t do this and doesn’t do that” down at the weeds level, and they don’t step back and look at the big picture comparing two cars to do the job of one.

            It’s meaningless that the BEV does its thing with less weight and operational cost, if it means having that dead weight and extra cost around when you don’t need it and having to store it somewhere when your needs are better served by the ICE vehicle.

            One vehicle is always the better answer for a nation full of people.

            Tell me how all the apartment dwellers fix the problem with two vehicles. Assume all apartments come with a parking spot with an EVSE. Now you’re asking those people to have another car, an ICE vehicle, to use when the superior BEV doesn’t serve you? Where will those apartment dwellers park it? Wherever it is, THAT’S additional complexity and COST.

          • 0 avatar
            stuki

            “Tell me the second car in your life doesn’t have a HIGHER cost of quite a bit of complexity/cost.”

            Lots of households already have two cars. Yet only ever use one of them for roadtrips.

            If you otherwise could get by with one car then, yes, dding a gas engine to an EV, or a moderate range battery setup to an ICE car, is less complex than adding an entirely new car.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “ and have another vehicle for road trips, an EV could be superior. ”

        Yes. However:

        1. Owning an entirely different vehicle is very expensive. Not only do you have the initial costs, but you have the on-going yearly costs such as registration.

        2. The best thing for the environment (which is the sole purpose of EVs as we are told) is to just own one vehicle that can do it all.

        You proved my point. EVs are vastly inferior to ICE vehicles. With an EV you need an entire other vehicle to do what one ICE vehicle does. That’s not efficient, that’s not green, that’s not smart, that’s not financially sound. The cheapest Model 3 is $47,000. You can get a very nice vehicle for half that (brand new Honda Civic with 30mph city and 40mpg highway) and buy almost 4,000 gallons of fuel with what you save (at $6/gallon). That will get you anywhere from 120k city miles and 160k highway miles.

        When an EV can match the parameters of an ICE vehicle such as that Civic above (affordable, efficient, long range, reasonable recharge times) then we will have a product worth buying. Until then, EVs are compliance/vanity products that are a cool science experiment but not a viable replacement for ICE.

        • 0 avatar
          Master Baiter

          “Owning an entirely different vehicle is very expensive.”

          Virtually all suburban households have more than one vehicle, and it’s not necessarily more expensive than having two different purpose-build vehicles. And even if it were, so what? Living in the suburbs is expensive. Eating steak is expensive. These are luxuries that we all partake in.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            Being a single vehicle household is a luxury that I prefer to partake in.

          • 0 avatar
            jalop1991

            “Virtually all suburban households have more than one vehicle, and it’s not necessarily more expensive than having two different purpose-build vehicles. And even if it were, so what? Living in the suburbs is expensive. Eating steak is expensive. These are luxuries that we all partake in.”

            You sound like Sleepy Joe. “You should revel in the higher gas prices–you’re privileged!”

            Your entire talk track is, it’s not more expensive–but so what if it is, what did you expect?

            I expect not to pay more for the same thing–transportation–that I had before.

            You can go off into the woods hand in hand with Greta. I’ll go do my thing.

        • 0 avatar
          jalop1991

          EBFlex is right.

          The ICE can do both long and short distance driving. The BEV can do short distance driving.

          For far less than the cost of that second vehicle, you can use your ICE to do the job of both long AND short distance driving.

          Is it as efficient as the BEV when doing short distance driving? No. But what’s the OVERALL efficiency and cost of having one vehicle vs having two?

          Nuance and detail confuse Americans.

        • 0 avatar
          Jeff S

          Most of us have more than 1 vehicle especially if you are married and have children. Owning any motorized vehicle is expensive. Buying any vehicle has a cost to it and the best way to recover you costs is to keep it for a longer period of time. Up until now cars did not retain their value so just buying a new vehicle to replace a less efficient vehicle that is newer and in good shape did not make financial sense. Many do not buy new vehicles because they need them but because they want them and that is why the auto companies have had annual model changes (less so in recent times). When GM introduced annual model changes it hurt the sales of Model Ts and caused Ford to adopt annual model changes. People can get very irrational when it comes to buying a vehicle.

        • 0 avatar
          jalop1991

          stuki says: “Lots of households already have two cars. ”

          Master Baiter says: “Virtually all suburban households have more than one vehicle”

          This excuse is right on par with one of the original EV excuses about low range and long charge times, and trying to road trip with that: “Well, you have to eat anyway.” Sure. An hour of eating, two hours of driving, another hour of eating…

          Twisting themselves into pretzel knots trying to ignore the realities of their choices.

      • 0 avatar
        jalop1991

        Did you just say, “EV is superior as long as you have another car, ICE, to count on when the superior EV fails you”?

        A golf cart is superior–in its environment.

        What you just described is not superior as an overall answer.

        • 0 avatar
          stuki

          “What you just described is not superior as an overall answer.”

          Nothing is.

          A pair of shoes is “not superior as an overall answer” to a loaf of bread.

          • 0 avatar
            jalop1991

            >“What you just described is not superior as an overall answer.”

            >Nothing is.

            and then you go talking about comparing a pair of shoes to a loaf of bread. Nice way to ignore context on a web site about cars.

            How’s this: what you just described is not superior as an overall answer to the auto ownership and driving experience.

            Now go on and eat every 2 hours as you take 15 hours to drive to somewhere (and take detours just to find chargers) that ICE drivers can get to in 6 hours without stopping for an hour out of every three just to fill up.

      • 0 avatar
        RHD

        The one trick pony just has to keep repeating the same trick.
        EVs are improving every year (every month, actually), as is charging infrastructure. Naysayers gotta naysay, otherwise no one will pay them any attention. Some people never socially graduate from elementary school, apparently.

        • 0 avatar
          jalop1991

          “EVs are improving every year (every month, actually), as is charging infrastructure.”

          …which is another way of saying, “EVs and charging infrastructure aren’t there yet and won’t be for the foreseeable future.”

        • 0 avatar
          stuki

          “EVs are improving every year”

          Very slowly. And slower and slower for every month. No different from any other technology. Including ICE. It’s called “The Law of Diminishing Returns.” Its more universal than gravity.

          Battery technology and chemistry was not novel and immature back when Tesla first started hawking roadsters. Instead, the very reason even half decent BEVs became viable in the first place, was that the steep part of the diminishing returns curve was already ascended. By cell phone demand. Since then, battery tech improvement, like all mature tech improvement, has gone slower and slower.

          By now, every new generation of Iphone has barely more battery per size and weight than the one prior. And cellphones, not BEVs, is still where battery tech is at its most mature. Doesn’t mean there aren’t sporadic, tiny improvements. But it’s rather flat by now. Again, just like is the case with similarly mature ICE tech.

          So, what you are left with, for any foreseeable future, is a breakeven point in total energy storage (ultimate envelope of range, load capacity and speed): ICE povertrains able to deliver say, steady 100mph cruising are a good bit heavier, more complex and expensive, than ditto electric motors. Yet battery storage is much less dense than liquid fuels. Hence, for shorter range and lower loads, BEVs are more efficient. Longer range, ICE.

          Intended usage is what determines which one is “best.” It’s not one or the other.

          (“Hot,” electrified highways aside. A true benefit of electricity, is that inflight refueling is much more viable than ditto for liquid fuels. If you can draw power directly from the infrastructure itself for the fast, power hungry, long distance parts of the trip; while simultaneously charging smaller, lighter weight last-mile batteries, you get the best of both worlds. In addition to niceties like autonomous routing for most of the travelled distance; lessened need to carry around large, heavy crash protection since faster travel is only done while “logged on” and kept “safe” by the infrastructure etc…. But getting there would take quite a bit of rather sophisticated, large scale, work. Which, in today’s world, pretty much resolves to: It’s up to China.)

    • 0 avatar
      Michael500

      You are correct. EV’s are a pipe dream at this point: the “300 mile range” is a complete fallacy too. We all know those numbers are as accurate as EPA mileage estimates or a Pentagon body count- not real. Plus, I can drive a Corolla from LA to Tucson- then 5 minutes later after filling up, do another 300 and/or go driving locally- NO EV on earth can do this. That’s why all the rich folk in LA drive their V8 SUVs for weekend getaways to San Diego/Santa Barbara and leave the Tesla at home.

  • avatar
    Syke

    Of course it’s going to take some time. For starters, Americans, for the most part, are inherently conservative. It’s going to take a bit of time before they start to take the new technology seriously. That conservatism is also political. It’s probably a safe bet to say that half the country is anywhere from “rather EV skeptic” to “absolute EV deniers” based on that the other side of the Culture Wars is accepting of the technology and the reason for needing it.

    Next, an EV doesn’t fit into the ICE vehicle owner’s routine of “run the fuel gauge to E and stop to refill it to F”, and someone who’s hasn’t lived with an EV (even for as little as a week) has a difficult time wrapping his/her head around how the technology is used. Add in the American attitude of deliberately centering on the most radical departure from using an ICE vehicle, and suddenly the only trips one ever makes (on a daily basis) are 300 miles minimum, and they all have to done while hauling two jet skis or a large boat. (This is the same corollary to buying a 4×4, 4 door, F-150 to hit Home Depot twice a year for mulch.)

    And then, of course, are the crowd that each time range improves and charging time shortens, their loudly proclaimed personal standards for EV acceptability also shortens to ensure that the best EV still isn’t good enough.

    The biggest stumbling block, however, is the knowledge that one’s habits will have to change, even though 99% of the time that change is going to be easier and more convenient than the current way of doing it. Like convincing someone that yes, it actually takes 10 seconds to refuel your car – the amount of time it takes to open the charging door, grab the charger handle, and plug it in. After which you go into the house, have dinner, have a beer, watch television, whatever. Unplug in the morning and go on your way with a “full tank”.

    And that’s what you’re going to be doing 97% of the time. Typical Americanism to obsess on the remaining 3%.

    Yes, right now, it’s a technology aimed primarily at home or duplex owners and renters. Time will catch up for the rest.

    It’s only an inferior technology if you’re determined to set your personal standards to ensure that it stays that way. For my personal experience, it took me a week to accomplish what little readjustment I had to do to transfer from a Civic Si to a Bolt EV. And essentially, nothing in my life has changed. Long trips are still my ICE vehicle – due to the amount of load carrying needed for a long trip will not come close to the Bolt’s capacity (this weekend is a small cannon). I’m waiting for the first EV minivan, and will probably trade for a Pacifica Hybrid sometime next year in the interim. Market returning to something resembling sanity, of course.

    • 0 avatar
      6-speed Pomodoro

      My favorite two things about owning a 5 year old consumer electronic are the severely reduced battery life and it’s propensity to go dead at any point below 20 percent. I’ve never owned a car younger than 5… Have fun selling these things after the market evens out.

      • 0 avatar
        jmo2

        Oh your not a new car buyer? Then what you think doesn’t really matter, does it?

        • 0 avatar
          6-speed Pomodoro

          @jmo2 No worries, my man. Enjoy “upgrading” every two years along with your iPhone to keep things fresh. Or is your financing locking you in for longer than that? Well, I’m sure you can live with 10-20% less range, and perhaps even prefer to.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ Enjoy “upgrading” every two years along with your iPhone to keep things fresh”

            Bad example. While new iPhones are released every year, they tend to have incremental improvements that do not make upgrading attractive.

            Further, Apple provides updates for many, many years supporting older products. The latest iOS update is supports phones all the way back from 2015, the iPhone 6s. The iPhone 6 that I use strictly for my drone (that I bought from a friend for $30 bucks) still works great.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Financing is for the poors lol

    • 0 avatar
      la834

      To people who can’t fathom buying a car that cant be fully refueled in 5 minutes at a gas station, I usually compare EV recharging to smartphone recharging. We can’t fully recharge our iPhones in five minutes either, but most of us don’t care because we simply plug it in before bedtime and it’s fully charged when we wake up the next morning. Most of the time, that will get you through the day. On the few times it doesn’t, it’s not hard to find someplace to plug in during the day or evening. Unless you frequently go on road trips (and don’t have a second ICE vehicle in the household), or live in urban housing where you can’t charge at home, current EV technology and infrastructure are fine for everyday driving – indeed more convenient since you rarely need to stop at a “gas station”. Even if you’re almost out of juice when you get home, you’ll have another 250+ miles when you wake up the next morning.

    • 0 avatar
      285exp

      That’s some fine straw men and unsupported assumptions there, Syke. Or, people can make rational decisions about what they need and what they can afford and make their buying decisions accordingly.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      I am conservative when it comes to adopting newer technology but EVs in reality have been around since the turn of the last century but then most Americans did not own cars then, there were few roads for cars, little infrastructure, and the batteries were not as advanced. It took me years to adopt CDs, DVDs, personal computers, electric lawnmower, and a hybrid vehicle. I probably will eventually buy an EV but for now I can wait and I have 2 good low mileage vehicles with 1 being a new 2022 Maverick Hybrid.

    • 0 avatar
      Michael500

      Great observations, but you are missing the biggest adoption criteria: American consumers will NEVER put up with less for the same/more money. The media/most automakers are forgetting this (except Toyota and Stellantis- the adults in the room). EVs won’t become mainstream until they MEET the current mobility/refueling standard.
      Here’s the standard: I get drunk Friday night and wake up late Saturday morning, but I have to drive to Tucson from LA to see my daughter at UofA. I pick up the rental with an empty tank, 5 min later I’m on my way. 7 hrs later when I get there, another 5 min fill up and I’m ready to go dining/shopping. No EV ever made can do this, one day they might, then they will be accepted. (theoretical example, I’m not saying this actually ever happened, I’m rarely hung-over)

      • 0 avatar
        Jeff S

        I have mentioned the pitfalls of EVs with range, cost, and infrastructure before. Those are givens and those are major reasons I have not bought an EV but those might not always be true. The first automobiles broke down often and there were few paved roads which made the horse more practical transportation. As cars got more affordable, more paved roads, and more gas stations cars became more feasible to own and drive and eventually cars replaced horses. What is practical and affordable today might not be the same in the future.

    • 0 avatar
      jalop1991

      Syke, do you dispute that an ICE is more flexible overall for a much wider range of needs?

      Are you telling us, “you don’t need that flexibility at all, so suck it up”?

      Sure sounds like it.

      ICE can do short distances. It can do long distances. It can refuel almost instantly compared to EV and get the driver back on the road without “well, you have to eat for an hour, right?” every three hours.

      But it sounds like you’d rather we have TWO cars around. Yeah, that’s efficient, isn’t it.

      I noticed you’re ignoring PHEVs. My personal experience is, there’s nothing better–short distances on EV only, and gas as needed. It’s easy for my wife to go a month or two without adding any gas for any reason. But it’s just a van when we need it.

      And the feds will make them even better as they insist on 50 miles of battery for newer models (I can do 36-37 miles on mine today).

      Compare PHEV to having two vehicles, or even to renting. You can dive into “but they’re more expensive to buy and run than an EV!” all you want, but all you’d be doing is ignoring the big picture of $$$.

  • avatar
    ajla

    I will stump yet again for PHEVs which require about 7x less battery capacity, charges well on 120v, doesn’t seem to require as much care to avoid degradation, can run on EV power for the vast majority of trips people take but can still utilize existing fueling infrastructure for longer trips.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      Historically the value proposition was never there either because the battery power wasn’t sufficient, or the PHEV was in the body of a Volt (homely) or because range was bad.

      Doesn’t seem to be the case anymore, though. Now it’s just a matter of finding one that’s not been marked up by 8k.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “I will stump yet again for PHEVs which require about 7x less battery capacity, charges well on 120v, doesn’t seem to require as much care to avoid degradation, can run on EV power for the vast majority of trips people take but can still utilize existing fueling infrastructure for longer trips.”

      THIS.

      The most reasonable, cheapest, logical, and environmentally friendly path forward. Evs are horrendous, PHEVs are the complete opposite and should be pushed hard.

    • 0 avatar
      Imagefont

      A PHEV can be nothing but a hybrid with a larger battery. I have a neighbor with a Fusion Energi that he parks in the driveway with a charge cable plugged in the simply goes under the garage door. I believe the stated EV range is 26 miles. When I commuted to an office that would have just about covered a round trip, with a 9kW hour battery. So you could build 10 PHEV’s or one EV with the same box of batteries. That’s a much more efficient use of resources than pushing pure EV’s, and that Energi can go anywhere without having to find a charging station. PHEV’s should be encouraged and incentivized, instead they are essentially dead. Ten PHEV’s would reduce emissions far more that one EV in real world driving.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      @ajla–My hybrid Maverick even tells you how many miles you travel on electric and average mpgs and it cost about the same as a Civic and Corolla. That is why there is more demand for the Maverick than supply along with it having an open bed. I like the 42 to 50 mpg I have been getting.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “ That is why there is more demand for the Maverick than supply”

        Umm no. Not even close. But you can certainly believe what you want.

        • 0 avatar
          Jeff S

          Tell me one other new hybrid or truck with a starting price of 21k. For a vehicle that gets 40 to 50 mpgs that is a bargain. I realize you hate Fords but can you buy a new Chevy, Dodge, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, or Kia for that low a price in a hybrid? If you are hesitant about an EV because of range and you want an affordable vehicle with good gas mileage it is a very good option. You say there needs to be more hybrids instead of an EV well you can order a new hybrid Maverick starting at 21k. Realize there is a shortage of all new vehicles but starting Aug 15 orders will resume for the 2023 Maverick.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            “There’s a number of factors that are contributing to the Maverick’s popularity. First and foremost is the price. The Maverick has a starting MSRP of just $19,995, making it one of the most affordable pickup trucks on the market. It also comes standard with a hybrid drive, making it an ideal option for the environmentally conscious: the hybrid model gets a whopping 40 mpg city fuel economy, beating the fuel efficiency of many compact cars, while still offering the utility of a truck.

            A fully-loaded model, with a four-cylinder EcoBoost tops out at $35,000, still tens of thousands less than many Ford F-150 options. Despite its compact size, as we found in our first drive, the Maverick still has seating for five, while offering more cabin room than the Ford Ranger, which is a significantly larger truck.”
            “Taken as a whole, the Maverick’s features fills a need within the market that few, if any, competitors are meeting. This is good news for Ford, with demand for the Maverick clearly coming in much higher than anticipated. Unlike many other auto shortages that can be blamed on semiconductor supply chain woes, it appears that demand is the sole reason the Maverick sold out so quickly.”

            Read More: https://www.slashgear.com/779540/why-ford-is-done-selling-the-2022-maverick/?utm_campaign=clip

  • avatar
    brn

    What’s with the downer of a headline? 24% are “very likely”, is an impressive number. An increase of 4 percentage points, is a 20% increase in a single year. That’s astonishing growth.

    • 0 avatar
      285exp

      24% will be an even more impressive number if it translates into actual purchases. A lot of them will say they will buy one, but when the time comes to actually do it, they’ll look at the price, range, charge times, and charging infrastructure vs an equivalent ICE vehicle and pass. One day, buying an EV will make economic and practical sense for many people, that day is some way off.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    Those of us in Canada and the USA have lived our lifespans with cheap and easily accessible energy. Europeans have had the opposite experience. As hydrocarbon fuels climb in price, EV’s will look better as an alternative.

    Rail is not used effectively nor is it properly set up for personal travel. We’ll fly if we can’t drive.

    I’d be interested to see what statistics show in relation to EV adoption based on political affiliation and based on rural versus urban living.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Well I can tell you I’ve seen all of 1 in Japan this week. Seems like Japanese cities would be a pretty compelling market.

      Yet I have seen as many C7 Corvettes as EVs which seems strange.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        “Seems like Japanese cities would be a pretty compelling market”

        Perhaps the Japanese are simply demonstrating their intelligence as a market?

        • 0 avatar
          stuki

          They’re the guys whose organizations and workforces are at the cutting edge of both battery tech and ICE tech…… (don’t underestimate “we can’t compete with Toyota anymore” as a motivation for trying to get government to shift the playing field, in places no longer able to effectively compete…)

          They’re also not known for being particularly gullible nor easy to sucker. Or, for that matter, to convince of anything at all. Especially of you’re just a “stupid foreigner.” Polite nods and feigned enthusiasm, then rolling eyes and breaking out in laughter as soon as the last foreigner has left the room….. While not siding with that particular Napoleon, Ghosn no doubt did feel like no natter what he said and did and commanded and paid for, it never really ended up amounting to more than pushing on a polite string.

          The Japanese are also less likely to have a 2nd car. There’s so little space, that parking is mostly a bigger hassle than using their rather good public transportation. One car is common, 2 much less so than in America, and even much of Europe.

          Also, their electricity is not cheap. Nor is most electricity grids built to reliably support big end user loads. Smaller residences, traditionally less demand for residential heating and cooling and power equipment would make BEV charging a percentagewise bigger change in load; than in places where AC is ran continuously to cool 300 square foot glass houses in the Arizona dessert.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            I understand your point about the Japanese but I believe you meant 3,000 square feet houses not 300 square feet unless they are micro houses. Even the typical Japanese who have smaller homes than the typical Americans would have bigger homes than 300 square feet.

            I can see the Japanese eventually having more EVs but then maybe they would have to upgrade their electrical system or offer either communal charging and charging at businesses. I doubt the Japanese would need the mileage range that we Americans want and they have Kei cars which are easy to park and less expensive and can be easily made in an EV form. A smaller less expensive batteries could easily and affordably power something the size of a Kei car. China is already making inexpensive EVs that are smaller with less range which would be perfect for more crowded urban areas especially in Japan. Gas and diesel are not that cheap in Japan and they have an even worse air pollution problem than many cities in the USA.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Art Vandelay – when my son was in Japan he found that most of the vehicles there were tiny. He also noted that it was mostly more affluent people who owned vehicles. Japan’s mass transit systems are superior to what we have in Canada or USA.

        The “poors” typically don’t own cars. Spotting more C7’s would tend to bear witness to that point.

        A quick search shows vehicle per capita ownership at 590/1,000 in Japan, USA 812/1,000,and Canada 685/1,000. EV Market share is 1% in Japan, 3% Canada and 4% in USA.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      @Lou_BC–Good points European countries are smaller with less distance to travel. Additionally Europe has a much better train system. Europe is also very dependent on other countries for oil especially Russia. Would be much easier to own an EV if you have your own home and are not traveling long distances especially in a suburban environment. In a rural setting most people have to travel further. I would like to see a study based on rural versus urban living as well. I am not opposed to EVs I just would rather wait.

  • avatar
    BSttac

    The only reason EVs exist is because of mindless politicians. I want nothing to do with an EV

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      I’ve loved every EV I’ve ever driven. The NVH and torque are fantastic!

      I’ve been waiting 5 months for our Tesla to arrive, and I’m likely never going back to an ICE engine for my personal vehicle once it it is delivered.

      The next vehicle up for replacement is my 10-year-old hybrid pickup truck. Finding a vehicle that’s an upgrade from that thing is harder than it sounds — having that big V8 run all the time is a shameful waste. Maybe I’ll swap my hybrid for a Cybertruck when it becomes available.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “ The only reason EVs exist is because of mindless politicians. I want nothing to do with an EV”

      Truer words have never been typed on this site. You are 110% correct.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      “The only reason EVs exist is because of mindless politicians”

      I would have bought my EV without the slightest intervention by politicians. It is superior in every relevant respect to an equivalent gas car. Smoother, faster, more responsive, quieter, better handling (thanks to the lower COG), much more controllable in low-speed city traffic, and you can keep the climate control on in the ferry line.

      It wouldn’t be very practical on a long trip, but I don’t care. We’re a two-car household and the other car in our household does that job fine. A more recent EV with currently market-appropriate fast charging capability would do OK too.

      The EV is the much better tool for daily use. It gets driven nearly every day, while the other car gets driven maybe once a week except when we’re taking it on a trip.

      • 0 avatar
        jalop1991

        “I would have bought my EV without the slightest intervention by politicians. It is superior in every relevant respect to an equivalent gas car. Smoother, faster, more responsive, quieter, better handling (thanks to the lower COG), much more controllable in low-speed city traffic, and you can keep the climate control on in the ferry line.

        It wouldn’t be very practical on a long trip, but I don’t care. We’re a two-car household and the other car in our household does that job fine.”

        first you say that your EV is superior in every relevant respect to an equivalent gas car. Then you say “the other car we own takes over when the superior car isn’t superior”.

        You EV people sure do twist yourself into knots as you blather away on the subject.

        Next we’ll hear that you do Crossfit and are a vegan.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          LOL. I read your comment as I was stuffing a burger in my face.

          We have two cars. One of them can do the trips. The other one doesn’t have to. This is how almost every two-car household operates. So the car that doesn’t do trips doesn’t need to be able to do trips. It’s superior in every **relevant** respect.

          (And the truth is a newer EV with at least 300 miles and modern fast charging would do fine on the trips too. We have kids and take breaks every few hours.)

          • 0 avatar
            jalop1991

            A bicycle is superior in every **relevant** respect. Why don’t you use that?

            Keep twisting yourself into knots.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            What’s twisted? We have a city car and a trip car. We buy and use the city car for city purposes. There’s not a single way in which our Bolt would suit our purposes better if it were a gas car, and lots of ways it would be worse.

            I also have an e-bike. It’s also a great tool for the purpose for which I bought it.

    • 0 avatar
      stuki

      The only reason _unsensible_ BEVs exist, is because of politicians.

      The most sensible and revolutionary vehicle introduced since at least the Prius, perhaps since the Vespa, is a BEV. It would be orders of magnitude inferior if attempted as an ICE: The standup, powered kick scooter. In dense cities, which is where more and more of humanity lives, it’s so much more efficient at the primary task vehicles are used for; transporting one person to work and home as well as on shorter errands; than all alternatives, that the others may as well not even bother trying.

      Of course, politicians being what they always have been, are, and always will be: Once the morons get hit over the head with something which actually works well for real people in the real world: Instead of promoting it like anyone even remotely intelligent would, they instead try to ban it….. It ain’t the DumbAge for nothing….

  • avatar
    kjhkjlhkjhkljh kljhjkhjklhkjh

    30% of the country is a bunch of 8th grade literate humpsticks who are science hating antivaxers … im not surprised at all.

    • 0 avatar
      285exp

      I’m sure there is some reason that they haven’t banned you for your juvenile trolling, but I can’t imagine what that is.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @285exp – freedumb of speech cuts both ways.

        • 0 avatar
          285exp

          @Lou, people of the left have recently embraced the right of private companies to allow or disallow whatever speech they deem fit. This website is certainly free to do so. If you want to defend his gratuitous insults as something beneficial to the site, be my guest.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            I think Lou’s point is that you’re ignoring the gratuitous insults that are coming from people who are more in line with your politics. And there are PLENTY of them.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @285exp – where did I defend his comments?

            My deliberate misspelling “freedumb” would indicate that I’m NOT defending him.

            As far as his comments being “gratuitous insults”, care to refute them?

            A quick google indicates that 34.1 million Americans have grade 8 education so mathematically he’s off there. 22% are “antivaxxer”. That does lend credence to your interpretation of “gratuitous insults”.

            Feel free to lodge a complaint with the site administrators and/or ignore his comments.

            ” embraced the right of private companies to allow or disallow whatever speech they deem fit”
            Private companies can do what every they please on their personal property within legal limits just like you can ban pro-mask signs or allow antivaxxer signs on your own property within legally defined parameters.

          • 0 avatar
            285exp

            Lou, your cuts both ways freedumb comment is just some weak bothsiderism, and it’s clear I don’t need to refute his comment because it wasn’t relevant to the discussion, and it was obviously untrue to boot. We have some annoying left and right wingers here, but most at least have something interesting to say occasionally, even if you don’t agree with them. The poster in question doesn’t. If there is someone on the other end of the political spectrum who does nothing but fling insults like a monkey does poo, I’ll be happy to complain about him too.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @285exp – If his comment was irrelevant, why did you comment?

            If my comment was “weak bothsiderism” why did you bother to reply to me?

            If one exercises one’s right to free speech then one needs to do so responsibility.

            You were upset at a perceived leftwing insult. You also didn’t like my comments because you felt they were left wing.

            Cuts both ways.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          On the flip side, when I call people cheese d!cks or s#!+heads, you guys want a ban soooo….

          Anyway, show me one vehicle related post this fnckhead has ever made. Otherwise he can suck my d!ck.

          See, I can say dumb and inappropriate stuff too. Go on and scream for the mods now

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ On the flip side, when I call people cheese d!cks or s#!+heads, you guys want a ban soooo….”

            Rules for thee but not for me is the libs motto.

            Remember if the left didn’t have double standards they would have any standards at all.

  • avatar
    Rider

    Considering how hard it is to get an EV in the US right now, I can’t help but think that the low adoption rate is somewhat caused by supply constraints. Most of the good electric cars on the market have a waiting list months if not years long.

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    Hard to trust EVs when our grid has blackouts. Right now the one thing you can trust is having your car fill with gas at corner gas station.

    Still, there was a time I am sure gas stations were far from everywhere and roads were not paved and people thought cars with gasoline were just a dream. Then we start building pipelines, and use tankers to ship gasoline everywhere. We build gas stations.

    Electrics can work in time. The electric vehicles are getting better and have less maintenance issues. I think it will only really work when the grid is enhanced and places to charge outside home are plenty and working and as fast charging as filling gas. It will take time. I don’t think I see it in my lifetime, but 50 years from now, it is possible. It will be expensive though to enhance that infrastructure. Count on it.

    • 0 avatar
      la834

      Laying down electric wires is much easier than building an oil pipeline. And once those wires are in place, recharging stations can stay up and running from electricity generated remotely from stationary locations, whereas gasoline stations must frequently be refilled by oil tanker trucks that dump gasoline in underground storage tanks.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      “Hard to trust EVs when our grid has blackouts. Right now the one thing you can trust is having your car fill with gas at corner gas station.”

      Now, you do know that when the power goes out, the pumps at the gas station don’t work, right?

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “ Now, you do know that when the power goes out, the pumps at the gas station don’t work, right?”

        Ah yes. We haven’t invented generators yet.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      When I drive long distances, I notice fewer gas stations than I used to – as well as many more boarded-up gas stations. Was about to posit that we have already seen Peak Gas Station in the U.S.

      One source says that there were around 195,000 gas stations in the U.S. in 1995, and that dropped to around 115,000 in 2020.

      [Usually it’s not a problem finding gas (close to population centers). When exploring the hinterlands (or at odd hours), it has become more of an issue (and will likely get even worse). There will be workarounds, but they aren’t completely safe.]

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        Do you live in Illinois or Missouri? I think fuel station closures is a more regional issue based on overall population. Outside of maybe a few cities in CA, I’d be very surprised if the BEV market is having an impact at it’s current size.

        New large fuel stations (Wawa, Buck-ees, etc.) are opening regularly in my part of Florida as more people move here. (More charging stations are becoming available for the same reason). It also might be better to look at number of pumps vs number of stations.

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          @ajla,

          pmirp1 said “Right now the one thing you can trust is having your car fill with gas at corner gas station.” This is less true in 2020 than it was in 1995 (40% fewer fuel station locations).

          I don’t think the drop in gas station locations from 1995 to 2020 had much of anything to do with EV’s. That wasn’t my point. But since you bring it up, from here on in, EV’s will likely have an impact at the margin – how large who knows.

          When I say ‘drive long distances’ I mean long distances. My last monster road trip was over 5,000 miles and covered multiple states (including IL and MO coincidentally). I am on record in these pages of being a big fan of Buc-ee’s. One of my favorite things to do on road trips is try the coffee (etc.) at big convenience store chains because I am a freak with no life. Another thing I enjoy doing when traveling alone is going to off-the-beaten-path places where (almost) no one goes anymore.

          –> When I am on a road trip in the middle of nowhere and need fuel because my fuel tank is too small (I believe many are), what matters to me is how far away the nearest fuel station is, not how many pumps they have.

          On my big trip when I was close to relatively large cities, I actually planned my fuel stops at Sam’s Club. I’m not saying you can’t buy fuel close to a city*. I’m saying when you are away from cities, there are fewer places to buy fuel. Based on my observations I was figuring Peak Gas Station (# of locations) happened awhile back, and the data says it’s even worse than I was thinking.

          *When I worked in Detroit, the Detroit News was always complaining about the last gas station that closed in downtown Detroit – there was no place to buy fuel in the Motor City.

          TL;DR: I have range anxiety on some road trips with my ICE vehicles, and it is getting worse not better.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            @ToolGuy–I have noticed fewer gas stations in rural areas as well but I don’t know if that is because of EVs or that regulations make it more expensive to put gas stations in areas with lower volumes which make the cost not worth it. When I do travel distances I will look for a Kroger’s fuel stop to use my fuel points, Sam’s Club, and Costco. Interstate travel especially in the East and Middle part of the country I usually have had no problems finding gas. I have found it harder to find gas stations in the Western part of the US in the more remote areas. Eventually it might become more of an issue as EVs become more numerous but I believe we are still years off from that happening.

            Whenever I have bought a new or newer vehicle I will for the most part get a more efficient vehicle. The Maverick I have is the most efficient vehicle I have ever owned. Most of my driving is local so an EV would easily work for me as a second vehicle but I would not want to travel long distances in an EV. My Maverick is similar to a Prius in that it is more efficient in city driving because of regenerative braking but even with long distance interstate driving it still gets in the high 30s. City driving I have been getting 42 to 50 mpgs.

      • 0 avatar
        SaulTigh

        I wonder how they count those? In 1995, the corner store was a thousand square feet and had 2-4 gas pumps. Now, it’s 4-5000 square feet and a dozen pumps, and every Walmart and grocery store has pumps too. I would lay money that while the number “stations” may be down, the number of pumps might very well be up.

        At the end of the day, electric cars are undeniably cool and capable of amazing performance. But, a long distance road trip takes far more planning and may be out of the question if you want to go to heavily rural locations. The lefty environmental advocates are really stuck on them being “good for the environment” with little thought given to the mining of heavy metals for batteries or what it will take to charge all of them if everyone converts, while simultaneously railing against any fossil fuel generation AND nuclear. Magical thinking isn’t just for kids and the very old any longer it seems.

        Forcing a conversion also screws the poor who drive hand me down cars and often don’t own homes so charging can be impractical for them.

        • 0 avatar
          jalop1991

          “But, a long distance road trip takes far more planning and may be out of the question if you want to go to heavily rural locations. ”

          All the discussion about “range anxiety” seems to assume that there’s plenty of juice available at the beginning of the trip, and there’s plenty available at the end of the trip.

          I submit, that’s generally not the case. There are plenty of destinations where there isn’t any significant infrastructure to handle charging.

          So range anxiety is also about “can I make it there, do what I need to do, and make it back?” Sometimes that’s a day trip. But sometimes it’s a couple of weeks.

          BEV owners like to talk about those “smelly gas stations where you spill gas all over your shoes”–they do so the same way they used to talk about 2 hour range plus 1 hour charging being “no big deal, you have to eat anyway”. But they do ignore that ICE vehicle owners can add 400 miles of range in 3 minutes on demand virtually everywhere in the nation, with no planning and no app.

          (That’s another favorite of mine with the BEV crowd: “don’t use Tesla’s charge app to finds charge stations. You have to use a third party app, otherwise you’re doing it all wrong.”)

        • 0 avatar
          jalop1991

          “The lefty environmental advocates are really stuck on them being “good for the environment” with little thought given to the mining of heavy metals for batteries or what it will take to charge all of them if everyone converts”

          They also ignore the effects of having that apparently necessary second vehicle, the ICE one, to fill in where the glorious–“superior”–BEV fails.

        • 0 avatar
          Jeff S

          The car shortage is making it harder for the poor who need an affordable older car to commute to work.

  • avatar
    redapple

    BEV – No way. Dont want one.
    1- doesnt fit my needs.
    2- Alja RE PHEV comments spot on
    3- We already have brownouts/blackouts coming this summer.
    ( coal going from 25% to 5% – so we need 20% more capy here.)( each 1,000,000 BEV require 1% more generating capy). 40,000,000 BEV on roads by 2030 per Xiden. 40+20= 60%
    You are stupid or insane or immature if you think we are competent to build 60% more electric generating by 2030.
    Oh- Population grows 1% per year.
    so it s really 60% + 8 = 68%
    Say round it to 70%

    Seventy percent more electric? No f ing way. None

    4- bird choppers and wind dont work at night. So, Rude Goldberg battery needed. >>> $0.50 kWh electric- true cost.
    ( electric is $0.27 / kWh in california now. That is with current NUKE and gas on line and coal electric imported from other states ( cheap forms going away))

    5- China is the source of the rare earths. They will hold all the card. Be impervious to our requests/pressure to get rid of coal. Since dummies in US, Canada, Europe are all green, coal will be burned to the max and will fall in price. India and China will burn more.

    6. Mining in the 3rd world is extremely dirty. Uses child labor.

    Conclusions
    A Compulsory BEV will make this country poorer. Make China richer and more powerful
    B Electric supply will be unreliable.
    C Total pollution will not decline
    D Libs dont deal in reality. They deal in feelings, theory, hopes and virtue signaling. Conservatives deal in math. Facts.

    This whole BEV crap is bad for you, the country – the world.

    Now go buy your Tesla like the Central Committee tells you. OBEY.

    • 0 avatar
      wolfwagen

      @red apple:

      “The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule” – H.L. Mencken

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “bird choppers and wind dont work at night”

      Ummm….Wind unionized and only works 9 – 5?

      “BEV – No way. Dont want one.
      1- doesnt fit my needs.”

      You should have stopped there.

      • 0 avatar
        redapple

        Lou
        The man smarter than me. Always nipping at my heel.

        Dear sir that always knocks me down. Have you never noticed that wind speed always slows way down after the sun sets. Guess not. Well it does. FACT.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @redapple – that’s not what you said.
          “bird choppers and wind dont work at night”

          You are correct that wind typically reduces at night but that’s a reduction not a stoppage.

          Around my part of the world I notice a shift in wind direction based on the time of day. Hot air rises so it typically “blows” uphill. In the evening as it cools, the air becomes more dense and flows downhill.

          Doesn’t one tend to require less electricity at night?

          Where have I engaged in an ad hominem i.e. “knocked you down”?

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      Red apple you are 110% spot on! Thank you for being a voice of reason. EVs are an expensive boondoggle and nothing more. It’s not tenable when you are pushing a product that l, for each one that’s purchased, our electrical grid needs between $2,000 and $6,000 worth of improvements. In Q1, that averaged to 452 million from just the Teslas sold. Absolute insanity.

  • avatar
    la834

    > There also doesn’t appear to be much of a social stigma around owning an EV — with just 3 percent of respondents suggesting embarrassment might keep them from buying one.

    Like WTF? There’s nothing even remotely stigmatizing about driving an EV. Most EV drivers if anything are proud of it. Now, there are certain EVs that look hideous, but any stigma about owning one is due to their styling and not their propulsion method.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      If I were buying an EV now it would be used to run errands and not to travel long distances. I would either get something like a Leaf or a Bolt. Teslas are too expensive with too many issues and little customer support. I would not buy an EV as my only vehicle I would have an ICE or a hybrid. For me its less about a statement and more about practicality and how I would use a vehicle. I am over making a statement with a vehicle I just want something that meets my needs.

    • 0 avatar
      285exp

      The ugliness of many EVs is meant to be a feature, not a bug. If people don’t know how virtuous and wealthy you are, what’s the point? They don’t have to make them hideous, they do it on purpose.

    • 0 avatar
      jalop1991

      “Most EV drivers if anything are proud of it.”

      And they’ll tell you so, every chance they get.

      Just like Crossfit people. And vegans.

  • avatar
    dwford

    People tend to overestimate how often they will take a long trip, but when you are talking about spending $50k realistically on a new EV, you really need it to be able to do anything you could possibly need it to.

    Part of the problem with EV adoption at the moment is that there aren’t enough brave early adopter types who want to be seen in a “different” type of vehicle. Luxury buyers stick to Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus because they don’t have to defend those choices to their social circles like they would if they bought a Jaguar or Cadillac etc. Same with EVs. At the moment there aren’t enough “safe” EV choices beyond Tesla. What socially timid person is buying a Hyundai Ioniq 5 when they’d have to constantly defend the car’s weird styling. Is it a hatchback or a crossover? Or the Kia EV6? Too few regular looking EV alternatives to Tesla at the moment.

    • 0 avatar
      285exp

      It’s not that people who buy Mercedes, Lexus, or Tesla EVs are not worried about defending their choice to buy an EV to their social circles, it’s that they can afford to buy them in the first place and they get to make both very visible displays of wealth and virtue signaling to their social circle.

  • avatar
    eggsalad

    BEV are, and will remain, toys for the wealthy in the US. For all intents and purposes, you must own or rent a private dwelling that allows at-home charging. If you don’t, you’re spending hours every couple weeks sitting in a parking lot somewhere.

    And these snooty folks who comment, “If I want to take a trip, I’ll just take my ICE car.” Goody for you, you’re wealthy enough to own two cars. Many people can’t.

    As a condo-dwelling (where the HOA forbids EV charging) single person, and a member of the working class, an EV simply will not work for me for the foreseeable future.

    • 0 avatar
      jmo2

      “For all intents and purposes, you must own or rent a private dwelling that allows at-home charging.”

      As the vast majority of new car buyers do. What an odd objection.

      • 0 avatar
        285exp

        They’re not trying to force just people who own or rent homes with off street parking and the ability to install a charger to purchase EVs, they’re trying to force everyone to. For the children.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      “BEV are, and will remain, toys for the wealthy in the US.”

      The best-selling EVs are in the $50-60,000 range – not cheap, but it’s not S-class money, either. For the record, that’s about the same money as a nicer-than-average F150, Silverado or Ram pickup. Are those “toys for the wealthy?” I don’t think so.

      The fact that EVs are more expensive than the average vehicle is actually a *good thing*. Why? Because the people who make them can make more money off them, which allows them to reinvest the profits into improving the tech, and bringing out cheaper, better product. Same pattern existed with PCs, big screen TVs, smartphones and dozens of other tech products. You’ll see the prices come down for EVs quite soon.

      • 0 avatar
        jalop1991

        “The fact that EVs are more expensive than the average vehicle is actually a *good thing*.”

        Sleepy Joe keeps telling us that about rising gas prices, too.

        And we don’t believe him, either.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      “Goody for you, you’re wealthy enough to own two cars. Many people can’t.”

      If you saw my car, you’d want a backup too. :-)

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      Condos and apartments will have to start offering EV charging (outlets) to stay competitive. Do you think they enjoy offering pools, hot tubs, fitness centers, etc? Furnishing an EV outlet is no harder than installing a new lamp post. Best money they’ll ever spend.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    The real barrier to EV adoption isn’t batteries, charging or range – it’s the type of vehicles offered. Americans are gaga for pickups and big SUVs, and until now, electric pickups haven’t been available. Well, now one is. I think the F150 Lightning changes this game. Once those are out in the real world in numbers, I think you’ll see that objection percentage drop quite a bit.

    The “range/charging anxiety” issue is overblown with this “crop” of EV buyers – at this point, the tech is rather expensive, so it’ll be limited to people with some money who have homes with garages to charge up in every day. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Eventually, this will work like it did with PCs, big screen TVs, smartphones, and dozens of other tech products – the adoption of stuff like this has always been “top down”.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      @FreedMike–True the vehicles offered are part of it but not all of it. I do agree that more EV pickups and suvs will expand the EV market but getting the price of an EV more competitive with ICE, increasing the infrastructure, and reducing the charge times will increase acceptability and adoption of EVs. EVs will get there eventually but it will take more time. I am not opposed to EVs just waiting for them to become more feasible.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        If EVs follow the same price pattern as other “new tech products” – and I think they will – then the key is to sell as many higher priced models as possible early on. PCs are a good example. My dad bought an IBM PC AT in 1984, and the price (including a printer and some software) was about ten grand. That’s about $27,000 in today’s money. A few years later, you could buy a far better machine for half the money. The ridiculous price of all the PCs IBM sold financed the tech improvements.

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          “My dad bought an IBM PC AT in 1984”

          It took until 2000 for PCs to reach 50% adoption and until 2013 it reached 80%.

          I don’t think many people disagree with the idea that BEVs will improve over time, but the details and scale of that timeline is what’s more unknown.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Define “adoption” – are you talking about the market share of PCs versus Macs in 2000, or the percent of people who had PCs?

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            This was my source. I believe it is just “personal computer” ownership in general.

            ourworldindata.org/grapher/technology-
            adoption-by-households-in-the-united-
            states?country=~Computer

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            I agree – I think it’s definitely going to take some time for EV adoption to happen. But it is happening.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            @ajla–True none of us really know that and if we had that knowledge and the knowledge as to what and when any technology would have widespread adoption we could invest and become multimillionaires but we don’t. Few of us in the 80s would have ever dreamed that PCs would become so affordable that they would be virtually in every home and even fewer of us ever dreamed we would have a portable phone that could do almost everything a computer can do. I remember the show Get Smart where Max Smart had a shoe phone and that was before the first cell phones and also remember the communicators in Star Trek and Dr. Bones using a scanner to diagnose and operate on patients. How many of us old enough to remember would ever realize that there would ever be lazer surgery or that lazers could be used in warfare which we saw in Buck Rodgers cartoons. I always wanted a robot maid like in the Jetsons which we don’t quite have yet but we have robotic vacuums. EVs will and have gotten better thru time but as to when they get to be more affordable and better to where the majority adopt them is still unknown. Although it is unknown doesn’t mean it will not happen. I never dreamed that you would be able to stream music and movies I thought how could CDs and DVDs be ever replaced and never thought Blockbuster would be put out of business with Netflix and now other streaming services threaten the survival of Netflix. I think we have all lived thru some fascinating times and there will be more technology to come of things we have never dreamed of.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          You could opt for many cheaper alternatives in the home computer market at that time. The Apple II was cheaper and of course, the best selling home computer of all time, the Commodore 64. Where are those options?

          IBM pricing was a function of them selling primarily to businesses that were looking for a safe buy.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Additionally, the AT itself was IBM’s second gen home PC, following the XT. Prior to that you had the SWTP and Altair type kits so it’s sort of a third gen.

            Either way, IBM was expensive because they could. The Zilog and other RISC based machines were already way cheaper as were the x86 clones. IBM was just padding their pockets and it was the chipmakers driving innovation. IBM did everything they could to stifle it and maintain a stranglehold on the market. Fortunately they failed.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @FreedMike – agreed. I won’t buy an EV because I’m a truck guy. Period! Build a capable EV truck and I’ll consider it. Mind you, if I get a dozen years out of my new truck, it may be the last new vehicle I buy.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        The biggest trouble with EV trucks right now is that they use very large capacity batteries. A 140kWh-250kWh battery goes in those compared to a 70kWh one in an electric CUV, a 12kWh one in a PHEV and a 2kWh one in a conventional hybrid.

        People might want electric trucks and SUVs but I think there will need to be technology improvements before they can be offered on a large scale.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @ajla – well reasoned comment.

          The new Hummer is a good example of your comment. Massive weight in batteries to yield the capacity required to meet brand image.

          Most pickups sold into civilian hands are purchased based upon perceived capacity and perceived need. Many buyers would be better off to rent a pickup or hire a delivery vehicle the few times per year they would need maximum capacity. I’ve heard that comment made multiple times on this site without “EV” being the topic of discussion.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            @Lou_BC–Agree. That is the reason I bought the Maverick is that I still wanted an open bed to haul things but I did not need a larger truck. I have owned several pickups over the last 35 years and like the utility of a truck. The few times I would need something bigger I could either pay to have it delivered or rent a larger truck. I think as gas and diesel prices get higher more people will realize they don’t need a full size pickup. I had a retired guy talk to me in the parking lot of Costco with a nice 2011 F-250 King Ranch who had ordered a new hybrid Maverick similar to mine. He said that he had sold his camper and no longer need a large truck and didn’t want to pay the gas bill. He is waiting to get his Maverick before selling his F-250 which was is great shape and has all the bells and whistles–doubt he will have any problem getting a good price for that truck despite higher gas prices. He is not the first person who has told me this or that they were thinking of buying a Maverick for everyday use and saving their big truck for towing. There are so few Mavericks around that it attracts attention.

  • avatar
    JMII

    The only thing stopping my wife from owning an EV is price and how to manage at home charging. We have a two car garage but my boat takes up so much space that getting a car in or out is a challenge. Not sure how or if we could get some kind of outside charger connection that didn’t look like an ugly extension cord hanging on the wall. Our interest level would go way up if there was an EV coupe since we don’t need/nor want a four door sedan.

  • avatar
    zerofoo

    EVs still require thought and planning. ICE powered cars do not.

    I don’t need to plan my travels around charging stations with an ICE. Even the most remote towns in this country have fueling stations.

    I’ve heard similar reasoning from Windows users – they use Windows because everything works with it. Games, scanners, printers and other devices – all are built with Windows support first.

    Ease trumps everything else when it comes to mass-market acceptance.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “I don’t need to plan my travels around charging stations with an ICE.”

      Anyone operating a vehicle that consumes large amounts of energy under load while towing or hauling will need to plan trips. Anyone operating a vehicle with limited energy storage capacity also needs to plan trips. Gasoline, diesel and fuel tanks are just forms of energy storage. It isn’t an EV only logistical concern.

      At this point in time, the three benefits of an “ICE” vehicle are the rate at which you can take on more energy and the amount of locations that are available for that process to take place. Lastly, one can easily find an “ICE” vehicle tailored to your needs.

      I’ve driven my truck and motorcycle to places where fuel range is an issue.

    • 0 avatar
      jalop1991

      “EVs still require thought and planning.”

      This right here.

      I don’t want to think that hard. And I don’t have to.

  • avatar
    random1

    So I was a mild EV skeptic, my wife was dead set on replacing our previous car with pure BEV. We have a second car, so not much of a risk to buy. We use our BEV almost exclusively now, I’m an almost complete convert. Even road trips, fortunately for us, there’s good infrastructure along our route for ski trips (NYC area to/from central Vermont). The BEV trip is about 20 or 25min longer than the ICE trip, and for some people that is too much, I get it. It’s definitely cheaper to run, even at $2.50 gas, let alone $5 gas.

    That said, it’s hard to make a purely economic argument for EVs, but the idea that it’s some massive inconvenience to live with is just false, for most people.

    Also, “Only about 5.2 percent of American registrations were of the plug-in variety” is hardly a fair indication of interest – just every EV for sale in America is massively back-ordered.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      I was an EV skeptic as well until I drove one – it was a Model 3 with the dual motor setup. You can fault the styling, the stupid Ipad dashboard, or Tesla’s quality rep, but there is absolutely zero wrong with the driving experience.

  • avatar
    ravenuer

    I would love to go electric, as we’re retired so not so much driving anymore. Only problem is we spend winters in Florida, in a condo in a gated community without (as yet) any charging units.

  • avatar
    probert

    EVs are great fun to drive, and are making good headway. Most people will find it easy to live with in the current state, but more charging stations will make a huge difference in mindset and long distance travel. If, like in Europe, Tesla opens its network, things will change overnight for a lot of people. As legacy slowly makes headway, people afraid of the new (really most of us), will feel more comfortable making the switch.

    GM, Ford et al aren’t investing billions for nothin. Not much to show for it yet relative to Tesla and BYD, but the writing is on the wall.

    Meanwhile, Europe and China lead the way in sales, and in China’s case, in tech (apart from Tesla).

  • avatar
    lynnthegreat

    I have worked in automotive my entire life & I sell cars for a living. I have sold many different brands. I live in Michigan. People who are interested in owning electric vehicles make up less than 5% of my overall customers regardless of if they purchase or not. Barely no one is interested in EV’s around here. I can custom order them a “Mustang” Mach-E & it just doesn’t happen. They buy the 5.0 because it is an Icon & not a gimmick.

    The demand for electric vehicles is NOT coming from the consumers, it is coming from the government & manufacturers who benefit from the government grants. It seems like the only place where people actually buy EV’s is in large cities. Tesla is the most driven/owned EV in my area. That I can understand because Tesla’s are at least unique to any other common vehicle brand & have something new to offer.

    Mark my words Electric cars are NOT the future. If anything Hydrogen cars might be the future, but EV’s are just not practical for most working people in the US. & I am tired of the disconnect between auto bloggers & the average Joe American & what they are looking for in a vehicle.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      Beautiful post. Well stated.

      “ I can custom order them a “Mustang” Mach-E & it just doesn’t happen. They buy the 5.0 because it is an Icon & not a gimmick.”

      Well yeah they came in for a Mustang not a mediocre electric SUV that is so poorly engineered, it relies on the Mustang name to gin up interest

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      Didn’t Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai sell hydrogen cars for a few years? I don’t know how well hydrogen would sell and there would definitely be a challenge to refuel them. I could see hydrogen for long distance truckers where hydrogen refueling could be installed at truck stops. A hybrid would be more feasible than hydrogen. As for EVs there still is a lot of development in improving battery technology and increasing infrastructure than needs to be done. For me I could eventually see having one but I am not going to rush out anytime soon I can wait for the technology to get better and infrastructure to expand.

    • 0 avatar
      Carlson Fan

      “Mark my words Electric cars are NOT the future. If anything Hydrogen cars might be the future, ”

      Hydrogen powered vehicles are electric cars. Replace the battery with a tank of hydrogen and a fuel cell that converts it to electricity. In the end both use an electric motor to propel the vehicle. I’d say it makes more sense to advance battery tech over hydrogen as both require energy(fossil fuels and/or renewables) to produce the electricity needed for either to work. However a battery EV is over twice as efficient at getting that electrical energy to the wheel and moving the vehicle forward.

      • 0 avatar
        Jeff S

        I have read the same thing that better battery technology would be better than hydrogen. I believe the technology will improve but it is more of a matter of when. Once the technology improves and the price of EVs becomes more competitive with ICE you will see more people adopt EVs and that will be inspite of what the Government does. EVs have to be more competitive and the infrastructure has to expand to have wider acceptance of EVs and that is still years away. In the meantime both my vehicles will run a long long time.

  • avatar
    JaySeis

    I commute 90 miles round trip daily in our BEV and averaged 3.5 Mi/KWh in 22,000 miles. I’ve had a couple of longer trips over the Cascades and Rockies in winter and late spring. 1st gen early adopters in our rural county are like 1 (Tesla 5 years ago) and there are a couple of Teslas and Mach Es now in a county of 23,000. Our power at $.0634 per KWh is not the cheapest in WA but damn low. I save about $100 a week in gas costs over the twin turbo Flex which I averaged 25 mpg. My equivalent eMPG is around 115 eMPGs or so. I charge at home nightly on a NEMA 240V plug on a 40 amp breaker (former dryer service). The Level 2 charges at 32 amps and puts 90 miles back in about 5-6 hours from ~7 pm to 1 pm.

    My gear head friends love the BEV. They are 70’s hot rodders. They say “It is the future”. My 5.0 driving friend will definitely be shopping for one in a few years to replace his Prius. Of course electrical power is cheaper here so that’s a plus. My grandfather was a master electrician and master machinist. He oversaw the crews installing the generators in the No. 1 power house at Grand Coullee Dam. Dad was a journeyman electrician and worked there as well. Both would’ve marveled at BEVs as electrical generators/ motors were part of their life and powered/ran scads of industrial machines and home appliances. I recall the home he and mom purchased in ‘62 had coal bin in the basement, left over when the home was converted to an oil furnace in the 50’s and since converted to a heat pump driven by electricity. We’ve two cars and one is a BEV & the other is an ICE (Flex). I’d imagine we’ll be that way for about a decade.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Had a discussion this weekend with my college senior daughter who lives away from home. She spends ~$180/month on gasoline which is probably $80 too much vs. something with more reasonable fuel economy. $80 takes her X hours to earn. Not ideal, but not the end of the world, and would make little sense to spend $$,$$$ to get a more fuel efficient vehicle right now.

    Will an EV eventually make sense for her on a teacher’s salary? Yes, probably so.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      That will be when more adopt EVs when it makes more economic sense to buy an EV over an ICE vehicle. With the complexity of modern ICE and the turbo 3s and 4s in vehicles that should have bigger engines that will make EVs more attractive to many. Also with fewer younger people wanting to become mechanics and fewer willing to work on older vehicles it will be harder for those who are not do it your selfers to find skilled mechanics to repair their ICE vehicles. This is already happening with many repair places that are unwilling to work on older vehicles.

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