By on August 25, 2021

Ford badge emblem logo

On Wednesday, Ford Motor Co. told employees that it would delay plans for on-site work due to coronavirus concerns relating to the delta variant. Non-site-dependent staff are being told they stay home for the rest of 2021, while line workers will still be required to come in so long as there’s a job to be done — creating a dichotomy between white and blue-collar workers.

While Ford has encouraged some teams to come back to the office for various projects, it has repeatedly delayed its return-to-work timeline. Workers now being told to stay home until 2022 were previously informed they’d be coming back to the office in October. Before that, everyone thought it would be business as usual by the summer. Now the company is adopting a policy that has most people staying home even after 2022 as often as possible while it considers mandating vaccines. 

Normally, this is something you’d expect unions to pipe up about and some are. Line workers are effectively being forced to come in and may be subjected to vaccinations in order to keep their jobs while office staff can remain home indefinitely. But the UAW has been on board with whatever COVID restrictions automakers wanted to impose since day one. It even cosigned most of the early proposals as part of the joint automotive task force designed to help manage the pandemic response.

While your author earnestly believes many of the people championing these types of restrictions are doing so with good indentions, the fact remains that it’s much more affordable for a company not to pay for office space it no longer needs. Ford has already said it’s been redesigning its facilities accommodate fewer people on-site and, according to Automotive News, the brunt of those efforts is going toward shrinking offices and giving employees more shared workspaces — which is going to save them a bundle.

From AN:

“The nature of the work or project will guide arrangements that employees and their people leaders decide on in collaboration,” Ford said in a statement. “For example, a team may decide to come into the office two times per week for a project that needs face-to-face collaboration, while working remote the other days, or there may be a sprint where employees are needed on-site for one full week, then work from home the rest of the month. Coming on-site will be for the purpose of collaborative work.”

The company on Wednesday also informed workers of a new arrangement where it will allow non-site-dependent employees to work for up to 30 days per year from an alternate location within their country of employment. That would allow employees with a vacation home or who were visiting family out-of-state to continue working with no expectation to be on-site at a Ford facility.

We’re inclined to think that vaccine mandates are next and Ford has already confirmed it’s been considering them. But it also stated that it wants to assess how employees might respond and what the legalities of such a mandate would be in various countries. There have also been monumental levels of pushback relating to new COVID restrictions that marginalize the unvaccinated or those objecting to compulsory vaccine IDs. Europe has seen months of protests after various nations instituted vaccine passports and there’s a coalition of truckers in Australia that now refuse to deliver goods while lockdowns continue. There has likewise been opposition forming in the United States, as various cities and corporations introduce pandemic protocols that are even more restrictive than what we originally endured.

Considering that Blue Oval isn’t even sure how legal it is to foist vaccines on staff at the global level and everyone is starting to seem pretty mad about the prospect, it’s probably wise to tread lightly here. Bank of America was already being boycotted for handing over customer data to the FBI and people are now doubling down after it said it would be requiring all employees get vaccinated unless they wanted to be fired — though it’s hardly alone. Amtrak, AT&T, BlackRock, Capital One, Cardinal Health, Cisco Systems, CNN, Delta Airlines, Facebook, Frontier Airlines, Google, Lyft, McDonald’s, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Uber, Walt Disney, Washington Post, and many other companies have introduced similarly stringent vaccine ID requirements within the last month.

[Image: Ford Motor Co.]

Become a TTAC insider. Get the latest news, features, TTAC takes, and everything else that gets to the truth about cars first by subscribing to our newsletter.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

123 Comments on “Ford Postpones On-Site Work Until 2022, Considers Vaccine Mandates...”


  • avatar
    el scotto

    making tasty, buttery popcorn. nom, nom.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    “creating a dichotomy between white and blue-collar workers”

    Yeah, that’s because you can’t build cars from home. If that was possible, Ford would have everyone stay home. There is little point in forcing white-collar workers to be in the office if they can be just as productive* at home.

    Jim Farley stated recently that Ford is suffering from 20% absenteeism on a routine basis, for a variety of reasons. You can’t run a business like that. Other car mfrs probably see similar numbers.

    My office just restarted its mask mandate. I’m grouchy about it, since I have the shot. *Usually I’m more productive in the office, but other times I’m better at home. Ford’s white-collar staff may have similar variability.

    Must be a great time to be a lawyer, since everybody is mad about Covid.

  • avatar
    RHD

    But the needle might hurt! I don’t wanna get a shot! I don’t wanna hafta wear a band-aid! Waah!

    P.S. RIP radio hosts Phil Valentine and Dick Farrel, who both preached strident anti-Covid vaccination hogwash and then died of Covid, and had regretfully changed their tune when it was too late. Heaven only knows how many of their listeners died from following their intentionally misleading advice.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    sheep, sheep, sheep. guinea pigs, guinea pigs, guinea pigs

    “Mass. reports 3,098 new breakthrough cases for the last week.
    There have been another seven deaths among vaccinated individuals.”

    https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2021/08/24/massachusetts-breakthrough-coronavirus-cases-august-24/

    Ford is now thinking they will become your medical specialist

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Savuto fear mongering again…

      Yes, breakthrough cases happen.
      Are birth control measures 100% effective?
      Are helmets 100% effective?
      Are seatbelts 100% effective.

      Statistically, the vast majority of deaths and hospitalizations are with unvaccinated people.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        here comes a pile of excuses from the vaccine agitator. Meanwhile these vaccines become less effective with every passing day. And the real scientists warned the world – vaccinating during pandemic will lead to bad results

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          The number I saw was 66 percent effective at 8 months. That’s still far better than your average flu shot.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            You’re making far too much sense, Art.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Walensky herself said that for old folks in nursing homes vaccine fell from 75% to 53% (total)

            Mayo Clinic: for Pfizer-BionTech 76% in Jan to 42% in July. While Moderna 86-76% slide.
            Meanwhile Japan blocked 1.6M Moderna dosages due to contamination.

            Basically, vaccine is less effective for the new variants and vaccinated people causing these new variants to appear. This is what the warning from the scientists was. Nobody listened. Government and science are not compatible. But government and corporation – this is a true love story

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “vaccinating during pandemic will lead to bad results”

          WTF?

          I’d love to talk to the scientist who said that.

          What is the purpose of Vaccines?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “What is the purpose of Vaccines?”

            To destroy our FREEEEDDUUUUMMMMMMS. Haven’t you heard?

            Seriously, some folks are just too dumb or crazy to talk to. I wish TTAC had an ignore button. If it did, I strongly suspect clowns like EB or Comrade Happy would just go somewhere else to get their jollies by having people yell at them.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            “During a stunning interview, Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier expressed strong concerns about the coronavirus vaccine’s mid-term, long-term, and even generational consequences”

            “Luc Montagnier is a French virologist and joint recipient, with Françoise Barré-Sinoussi and Harald zur Hausen, of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his discovery of the human immunodeficiency virus. He has worked as a researcher at the Pasteur Institute in Paris and as a full-time professor at Shanghai Jiao Tong University in China.”

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Who let the sheep out??

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Ford just gets more foolish by the day.

    Get the shot if you want it. Don’t get the shit if you don’t. That’s your healthcare and that’s your right. Companies should be prevented from interjecting themselves in their employees personal healthcare decisions. These are experimental vaccines (bUt ThE fDa JuSt ApPrOvEd OnE….and doctors one PUSHED cigarette smoking).

    As for the masks….we have known for a long time that they don’t work. Stop with the draconian control BS. Ford’s stupidity doesn’t end at vehicle design it seems.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Well, so long as you don’t work for Delta it’s your health care.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      “Companies should be prevented from interjecting themselves in their employees personal healthcare decisions.”

      The guy in the cube next to yours comes in sick as a dog (non COVID, of course) and a fever of 102, and proceeds to barf all over your desk. The company has no right to send him home. Lord forbid it interfere in Barf Boy’s personal healthcare decisions. Correct?

      (While you’re at it, explain to me how Barf Boy ISN’T a complete a-hole who has no regard for anyone’s well being and should be selling shave ice in Antarctica for a living.)

      • 0 avatar
        IH_Fever

        Barf boy is actually sick, that’s why he’s an a-hole and it’s ok to tell him to pack it up. Sending him home and belittling him because he “COULD get and spread the virus” is just asinine. By that logic, why not send home vax boy, who is carrying a much higher viral load, and COULD also get someone sick? Is he also not an A-hole? And why do folks who have gotten the poke care anyway? They’re vaxxed, therefore immune right? Isn’t that what “the science” says?

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          These are fascists. Next thing, they will make us wear a yellow circle

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Well, once you prove to me that the stomach flu that Barf Boy has is as deadly as COVID, then you have an argument.

          The reason I want everyone to get vaccinated is real simple: less people will die. That’s a bad thing?

          And then there’s this: because I’m vaccinated, it’s entirely possible that I may have this virus and not show any symptoms at all, but I can still give it to someone else unwittingly, and I don’t want that person to get sick from it.

          I’m not as scared of my potential for death as I am of the potential for death for the person I come into contact with.

          Last I checked, that’s called “moral decency”. Didn’t a certain political party used to sell itself as being all about that kind of thing?

          Now, if everyone’s vaccinated, then none of us have to worry much about getting each other seriously ill. Explain to me how that’s a bad thing.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @FreedMike – Ironic. Vaccination is something one does as a matter of civic duty. It’s done to better one’s society and country.

          • 0 avatar
            IH_Fever

            Once you prove to me that covid is any more deadly than a host of other diseases, then you have an argument. The “you may get somebody sick” argument could be applied to lots of deadly things. If the other person doesn’t get the miracle shot and you get them sick, that’s on them. People die every day in car wrecks. You gonna make everyone not drive just so maybe YOU dont kill someone? Genius…

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            I’d say that response speaks for itself.

            Derp…

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @FreedMike – mind-numbing, truly mind-numbing.

            Where do these bozo’s come from?

            These threads have individuals pop out of nowhere that have never posted here before then they disappear but not until they spread bullsh!t.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “Once you prove to me that covid is any more deadly than a host of other diseases,”

            https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-florida-funeral-homes-overwhelmed-with-bodies-covid-19-surge-20210825-3dxrevbjvzffddfpdx6odpqcmm-story.html

          • 0 avatar
            IH_Fever

            Typical from lou, mike, and a few others on here. Don’t like someone having a differing view, so let’s resort to childish insults. As you said, derp…

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Don’t let the hype.

      “FDA decreed that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine should remain unlicensed and under the EUA but can be used interchangeably with the newly licensed Comirnaty vaccine. More importantly, the FDA states that the licensed Comirnaty vaccine and the existing Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine are “legally distinct” but proclaims that their differences do not “impact safety or effectiveness.”

      In other words, the new product “COMIRNATY” is approved. But it is nearly non-existent. To be this product, there must be a label, a package, etc. The application for label was only submitted on Aug 21.

      Anything that being put into your arm or brain today is still same old experimental medication. So, if anyone wants it, at least wait for Comirnaty, then if you die your relatives can sue

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        Slavuta that is quite incorrect. Below is from the actual FDA release:

        ‘Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the first COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older.
        Since Dec. 11, 2020, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has been available under EUA in individuals 16 years of age and older, and the authorization was expanded to include those 12 through 15 years of age on May 10, 2021. EUAs can be used by the FDA during public health emergencies to provide access to medical products that may be effective in preventing, diagnosing, or treating a disease, provided that the FDA determines that the known and potential benefits of a product, when used to prevent, diagnose, or treat the disease, outweigh the known and potential risks of the product.

        FDA-approved vaccines undergo the agency’s standard process for reviewing the quality, safety and effectiveness of medical products. For all vaccines, the FDA evaluates data and information included in the manufacturer’s submission of a biologics license application (BLA). A BLA is a comprehensive document that is submitted to the agency providing very specific requirements. For Comirnaty, the BLA builds on the extensive data and information previously submitted that supported the EUA, such as preclinical and clinical data and information, as well as details of the manufacturing process, vaccine testing results to ensure vaccine quality, and inspections of the sites where the vaccine is made. The agency conducts its own analyses of the information in the BLA to make sure the vaccine is safe and effective and meets the FDA’s standards for approval.

        To support the FDA’s approval decision today, the FDA reviewed updated data from the clinical trial which supported the EUA and included a longer duration of follow-up in a larger clinical trial population.

        Specifically, in the FDA’s review for approval, the agency analyzed effectiveness data from approximately 20,000 vaccine and 20,000 placebo recipients ages 16 and older who did not have evidence of the COVID-19 virus infection within a week of receiving the second dose. The safety of Comirnaty was evaluated in approximately 22,000 people who received the vaccine and 22,000 people who received a placebo 16 years of age and older.
        Based on results from the clinical trial, the vaccine was 91% effective in preventing COVID-19 disease.

        More than half of the clinical trial participants were followed for safety outcomes for at least four months after the second dose. Overall, approximately 12,000 recipients have been followed for at least 6 months.’

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Arthur,

          NO!!!!!
          You either copied it from somewhere or modified it yourself
          https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

          Where your first paragraph ends, the FDA continues:

          “The vaccine also continues to be available under emergency use authorization (EUA)”

          This is because Comirnaty is not available and will be liable under normal legal proceedings. So, they are going to keep pumping people with old vaccine under EUA.

          BTW, you can read actual authorization and not just press release. And there it is clearly says the packaging, labeling etc requirements for Comirnaty. Anything that does not have that, is not Comirnaty but an experimental medication.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    I’m puzzled.

    Ford finds that they don’t need office space since absenteeism is high and white collar staff can do the same work from home. Blue collar staff, the one’s on the assembly line might be mandated to get vaccinated. Isn’t that just capitalism at it’s finest? Heaven forbid that worker’s have rights.

    Odd how conservative types didn’t give a sh!t about union members until it comes to masks and vaccines.

    I’m surprised that cognitive dissonance hasn’t caused heads to explode.

    It must be yoga. How else can you bend yourself into that sort of pretzel?

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Lou I have teleworked for years with the only requirement being I come into the office 2 times a pay period. My employer restacked our work space 2 years ago which has merged the workers in 4 buildings down to 1 saving over 2 million a year in costs. We have what is called hoteling where we reserve a space for when we come into the office. I am sure that Ford like other companies can save millions as well which makes sense. I have to wear a mask when going into the office even though I have had 2 vaccines but I don’t really mind it. I don’t wear a mask when I am at my desk since I am separated more than 6 feet and each workspace has walled partitions. I will get a 3rd shot when available.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Ford’s stupidity shines through yet again. Amazing how it’s not just related to vehicle design but now they are forcing their employees to get experimental vaccines.

    Funny how the libs will scream and yell “my body my choice” when it comes to murdering babies but when it comes to the experimental vaccine they demand 100% blind compliance and even reasonable hesitation is met with rabid anger. I’m surprised that cognitive dissonance hasn’t caused heads to explode.

    It must be yoga. How else can you bend yourself into that sort of pretzel?

    As for the masks….we have known for a long time that they don’t work. Stop with the draconian control BS. Ford’s stupidity doesn’t end at vehicle design it seems.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      You can find a nice breakdown of all of it here

      https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/08/the_bad_and_the_ugly_about_covid_in_america.html

      “The new mRNA vaccines are far from safe. While the VAERS reporting system now has over 10,000 deaths (EU 20,000 deaths) after the vaccine, a whistleblower with the CDC says the actual count is closer to 50,000 and not being reported. Adverse reactions, including anaphylaxis, blood clots, neurologic injury, and spontaneous abortion have approached 650,000 patients in the USA. After only eight months of vaccination, longer-term side effects remain unknown…”

      And a little bit on Henry Ford
      https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/07/refuting_obama_the_story_of_henry_ford.html

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        @slavuta:

        “Adverse reactions, including anaphylaxis, blood clots, neurologic injury, and spontaneous abortion have approached 650,000 patients in the USA”

        Gee, that’s equal to the number who died from Covid. Where are the bodies – hidden with the passengers from American Airlines 77?

        You’re suggesting that 1 of 3 US deaths *daily* is attributable to the Covid vaccine – just laughable.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @SCE to AUX – “approached 650,000 patients in the USA”

          This was already discussed on another thread. Adverse events or “near misses” are reported then investigated.

          You are insinuating that there were 650,000 deaths from vaccines. Epic conflating of points. Not all of those reported events resulted in death.

          Out of 360 million plus vaccine doses “VAERS received 6,968 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.”

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            You are true cruel socialist. You don’t want to just shoot and forget. You want to perform social experiment on, prolong the suffering. And all in the name of your agenda. Even if people tell you – we don’t want it, even if we die of covid.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          @SCE to AUX

          Thats not the point. Point is
          1. don’t tell that vaccine is perfectly safe and everyone needs it.
          2. if I want to play a Russian roulette, I use a revolver. This is classic

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuta – math or anything requiring logic aren’t your strong suites, are they?

            Russian Roulette = 16.67% chance of death.

            Death from COVID-19 vaccine in USA = 0.0019%

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Take your meds, EB.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        Critical, reasonable thought = “take your meds”

        Sorry I’m not a mindless sheep that believes everything the government tells me. That’s cool if that’s how you clearly want to live your life but I will not be manipulated like that.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Well, when you’re confronted with bats**t crazy stuff like yours, I’d say a response like “take a pill” makes total sense.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Mike,

            what makes sense to you does not to others. What is not clear?
            You are fascistic person. That is clear enough. EB talked about Ford. That is his opinion. You talked about EB, not his opinion.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            What makes you think I care about your opinion of me?

            You are irrelevant. So is EB. You can both buzz off.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ Well, when you’re confronted with bats**t crazy stuff like yours,”

            Nothing I said is crazy. What you don’t like is independent thought. People having an opinion and the balls to voice that opinion is a threat to you. You want people to blindly follow what you choose to believe and when they don’t you lash out and throw a tantrum.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Again…I really don’t care what you think about my motives, my reasoning, or anything else. I stand by every word I said. If you don’t like it, that’s too bad.

        • 0 avatar
          MrIcky

          EB, your thoughts aren’t “Critical,reasonable thought”- you’re just parroting some other fringe guy who is manipulating the hell out of you with, quite literally, made up garbage.

          You like to think you’re not the sheep because you’re making your big anti-government point, but calling everyone else a sheep while you just repeat some radio talk show host garbage doesn’t make you the wolf. You’re just being herded by a different dog.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “EB, your thoughts aren’t “Critical,reasonable thought”- you’re just parroting some other fringe guy who is manipulating the hell out of you with, quite literally, made up garbage.”

            Who is this fringe guy I am parroting?

            What did I say that is “made up garbage”?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “You’re just being herded by a different dog.”

            Chihuahua’s can be very noisy.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @FreedMike – it is hilarious to see them post stuff from sites like “americanthinker”. Talk about an oxymoron.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          From Wikipedia:

          “Right Wing Watch has written about American Thinker, including that the site had in 2014 published a complimentary piece on white nationalist Jared Taylor and in 2015 asserted that rainbow-colored Doritos are a “gateway snack to introduce children to the joys of homosexuality”.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “my body my choice” LOL.
      Anti-vaccine and anti-mask types have taken over that phrase. There was a time when conservatives and churches weren’t against abortion.

      “Experimental vaccine”
      The Pfizer vaccine is approved.

      Masks – they work. I’ve posted multiple links to reputable studies.
      I work with many vulnerable high risk immunocompromised patients. I’ve had multiple encounters with COVID-19 POSITIVE patients. They were wearing masks and so was I. I’ve yet to test positive.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        I am pro-abortion. Totally. I see it as preventative medicine. Medicine from having more sheep. But not for me – for you, those who likes it.

        This FDA approval will be a disaster. You will see.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “ “Experimental vaccine”
        The Pfizer vaccine is approved.”

        And? You realize that is meaningless right? It’s like touting something is military grade. You look at the list of things that have been FDA approved and the list of things that haven’t and it’s clear that it’s meaningless. Plus it’s clear the only reason ONE vaccine was approved is due to political pressure.

        “Masks – they work. I’ve posted multiple links to reputable studies.
        I work with many vulnerable high risk immunocompromised patients. I’ve had multiple encounters with COVID-19 POSITIVE patients. They were wearing masks and so was I. I’ve yet to test positive.”

        So Dr Michael Osterholm is wrong? That’s what you are saying? Interesting.

        • 0 avatar
          Luke42

          Goalposts: moved

          We all knew this would happen, but it is depressing to see it in real life.

          Thanks for extending the plague, anti-vaxxers!?!?!

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Wluke:

            Anti vaxxer: The vaccine’s not approved!

            (FDA approves vaccine)

            Anti vaxxer: It’s not really approved because it’s political!

            (As if their opposition to vaccination isn’t? Okey dokey…)

            And on and on…

            Far as I can tell, a large contingent of these folks, including this clown and Comrade Spunky, are just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. That’s the best I can figure. Clearly this is what gets them off.

            I just wish this site allowed us to ignore users – maybe then clowns like this would go get their haterade fix somewhere else.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ Anti vaxxer: The vaccine’s not approved!

            (FDA approves vaccine)

            Anti vaxxer: It’s not really approved because it’s political!

            (As if their opposition to vaccination isn’t? Okey dokey…)

            And on and on…”

            Funny how you conflate advocating for personal choice with being anti vaccination (a word you are unable to spell)

            Plot twist, I got the vaccine. On December 28th, 2020. There’s a VAST difference between someone who is against the vaccine (like Biden/Harris/all left leaning media personalities prior to Jan 20, 2021) and someone who is against being forced to put something in their body that they don’t want to.

            I’m not shocked you are incapable of making that distinction. Simple mind, simple position.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            So let me see if I get this correct…I should listen to you because you got the vaccine before I did (could be because I wasn’t eligible until April 2021, but these are mere details), and I opposed the vaccine before I got it (fun fact: I never opposed it in the first place). And I spelled “vaccination” incorrectly, despite having spelled it correctly.

            And, oh, yeah…Kamala Harris. That wins the “argument” there, except that I don’t think there ever was an argument to begin with.

            Seriously, TTAC, can we have an ignore button for this kind of verbal excrement?

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “and I opposed the vaccine before I got it (fun fact: I never opposed it in the first place).”

            Where did I say you opposed it? You are, quite literally, making things up.

            “Vaxxer” “Vaxx” is not the correct spelling of “anti vaccination” or “vaccination”. Try and keep up.

            “And, oh, yeah…Kamala Harris. That wins the “argument” there, except that I don’t think there ever was an argument to begin with.”

            There are numerous articles on how she doubted the vaccine. Keep your head in the sand though.

            “Seriously, TTAC, can we have an ignore button for this kind of verbal excrement?”

            Do yourself a favor and stop responding. You are making a fool of yourself. Why do you need an ignore button? Do you have that little self control that you need a button? Child.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “So Dr Michael Osterholm is wrong?”

          Is that the guy that has been quoted by you nutjobs saying that everyone who’s gotten a vaccine will be dead in two years?

          You pick one thing that’s said which aligns with your beliefs and run with it. Not too bright.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “So Dr Michael Osterholm is wrong?”

            Is that the guy that has been quoted by you nutjobs saying that everyone who’s gotten a vaccine will be dead in two years?”

            Wow you don’t even know who he is. That’s staggering.

            Since you are incapable of using Google (very difficult I know) let me help you out. Follow along with your finger:

            “Michael Thomas Osterholm is an American epidemiologist, Regents Professor, and Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.” He was also on candidate Bidens Covid task force (that has been resolved).

            Hes on the record saying that a cloth mask gives you 5 minutes of additional protection against someone who is unmasked (when in the presence of someone with covid.

            A surgical mask gives you 20 minutes.

            A N95 mask gives you 24ish hours of protection.

            Surgical masks and cloth masks do not do anything of substance when it comes to covid. That is why, even after mandating masks, stayed NEVER saw a reduction in covid case loads. Most states saw an increase.

            Now, be a good little pawn and do your acrobatics to try and explain this away.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @EBFlex
            “Wow you don’t even know who he is. That’s staggering.”

            Why should I know who he is and why should I care?

            Is he Canadian?

            Is he an Epidemiologist that I have direct access to in my professional capacity?

            Just to humour you I found this:

            “At the outset, I want to make several points crystal clear:

            I support the wearing of cloth face coverings (masks) by the general public.
            Stop citing CIDRAP and me as grounds to not wear masks, whether mandated or not.
            Don’t, however, use the wearing of cloth face coverings as an excuse to decrease other crucial, likely more effective, protective steps, like physical distancing
            Also, don’t use poorly conducted studies to support a contention that wearing cloth face coverings will drive the pandemic into the ground. But even if they reduce infection risk somewhat, wearing them can be important.”

            Michael T. Osterholm, PhD, MPH | Director | CIDRAP

            https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/commentary-my-views-cloth-face-coverings-public-preventing-covid-19

            I take it you don’t look beyond your tiny schmeckle when you find something that you think supports your ideology.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “So Dr Michael Osterholm is wrong?”

            He seems to be a fan of the vaccines:

            “https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/08/07/ultimately-this-virus-will-find-you-dr-osterholm-pushes-covid-vaccine-as-delta-variant-spreads/”

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @EBFlex – Your post demonstrates that masks work within their design parameters.

            “Surgical masks and cloth masks do not do anything of substance when it comes to covid”

            Clothe mask – 5 minutes additional protection
            Surgical mask – 20 minutes
            N95 mask – 24 HRS.

            Under what circumstances were these numbers generated?

            In Public?
            In a confined space?
            Close contact?
            In a hospital ward?
            In an ICU?
            During an aerosol generating procedure?
            Lab simulation?
            Computer generated simulation?
            How were variables controlled?
            Were these findings replicated?
            Peer reviewed?

            Please explain!

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ Why should I know who he is and why should I care?

            Is he Canadian?

            Is he an Epidemiologist that I have direct access to in my professional capacity?”

            Your professional capacity as a drive through manager? I doubt it. Again it’s clear Google is providing a challenge to you when all you can do is find an article from July of 2020. I can find articles that show cigarettes are very safe too. Why not listen to his words from August 2021? Where he essentially said cloth (no e on the end kiddo) and surgical masks are useless?

            https://wbckfm.com/bidens-top-covid-advisor-cnn-cloth-masks-dont-work/

            It was stated on CNN for Christ’s sake.

            “Under what circumstances were these numbers generated?

            In Public?
            In a confined space?
            Close contact?
            In a hospital ward?
            In an ICU?
            During an aerosol generating procedure?
            Lab simulation?
            Computer generated simulation?
            How were variables controlled?
            Were these findings replicated?
            Peer reviewed?

            Please explain!”

            Do your research. That was directly from Michael Osterholm on a podcast.

            But you’re all about “trust the science” (as long as it fits your Orwellian dreams)

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Do your research. That was directly from Michael Osterholm on a podcast.”

            “Do your resesrch”.

            I’ve posted all of my searches with links to ACTUAL studies.

            You are lazy.

            You stop when you find something you agree with. A Podcast isn’t scientific evidence.

            Post the links to studies. That’s how it works.

            Oh and I still don’t give a sh!t who he is. He isn’t someone in my chain of command.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ Oh and I still don’t give a sh!t who he is. He isn’t someone in my chain of command.”

            Right. You’re a hypocrite. You only trust and believe what agrees with your opinion. And anyone that is skeptical or asks reasonable questions bothers you to the point of throwing tantrums and launching personal attacks.

            You are incapable of listening to a differing opinion or even mild skepticism. It enrages you.

            You don’t want to listen or even consider the position of a guy who is so accomplished that he was on Bidens covid transition team (but obviously not good enough for you).

            Just stop while you are ahead. Go play in the sandbox the adults are talking.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    I’m pro-vaccine based on risk assessment, but having employers require vaccines is a slippery slope. What about those who already have had Covid and have antibodies? Since we’re all apparently able to continue to spread this even after getting vaccinated, and the 19 vaccines aren’t as effective as we were hoping, it seems this type of 19 policy is more CYA than anything else.

    There are no easy or good answers for any of these questions, but I don’t see how ignoring them gets us anywhere.

    Why not protect the most vulnerable and campaign aggressively for us all to become healthier, so that if/when we are exposed, we’re better able to let our immune systems do what they do best?

    Example: Last I heard, over 60% of Cov deaths had very low Vitamin D levels. Why aren’t we talking about health?

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      Or when employers require sterilization because of time lost due to pregnancy (pregnant males and females) and higher insurance costs.

      It sounds insane but we get there by allowing stuff like forced vaccinations. Slippery slope indeed.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Right, we’ve gone from “you have to be vaccinated to show up to work” to forced sterilization.

        Like I said…take your pills.

        • 0 avatar
          jmo

          What’s that old saying? He doesn’t have anything a little prozac and a polo mallet wouldn’t cure.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            I think the real cure is an ignore button, which I wish this site had. If that were the case, clowns like this guy would end up going elsewhere to get their jollies.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        Your argument is the same as those with whom you disagree. They say, “if you don’t agree the vaccines are the only moral choice with no risk assessment necessary, then you must you want people to die”.

        You’re saying that if a company requires a vaccine to be an employee then it’s only a matter if time before they require sterilizations.

        Neither is a good faith argument.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          It’s the same hyperbolic nonsense you saw during the whole Terri Schiavo thing – “if this brain-dead person is taken off life support, you’ll see the Liberal Euthanasia Squad scouring nursing homes and mental health institutions, looking for old folks and mentally handicapped people to do in, Nazi style.”

          Last I checked, Schiavo was taken off life support, and no one’s been combing Shady Acres Rest Home looking for old folks to euthanize. Imagine that!

          It’s just nonsense. And I’ll say it again – since the site isn’t interested in banning people anymore (and if anyone should have been banhammered, it should have been Slavuta for the “I’m going to cannibalize my neighbors who voted for Biden” stupidity), this site needs an ignore button.

          Folks this guy are here because they get off on all the haterade aimed at them. Makes them feel smart, I guess.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “And I’ll say it again – since the site isn’t interested in banning people anymore”

            Exercise some self control and stop responding. How pathetic are you that you cry for an ignore button because someone has the audacity to have a different thought than you? Are your feelings that sensitive? Grow a spine.

            You are a hate filled and hate driven person. It’s amazing someone can be so close minded.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @jkross22 –

      Death obviously comes for the unhealthy before the healthy. Vitamin D comes from sun exposure and diet. A couch potato with a beer and bag of potato chips comes to mind.

      COVID-19 illness does build antibodies but new evidence suggests that it can be further enhanced with vaccination. It does appear that vaccines provides better protection against variants that previous COVID-19 illness.

      One can argue that employer mandated vaccination is a slippery slope but I haven’t seen that in my career. Emergency personnel (police, fire, EMT) have to meet mandatory fitness levels. Healthcare professionals have to be vaccinated against higher risk agents.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        @Lou,

        The majority of us are vitamin D deficient. There’s enough reason to explore correlation with that and 19, but vitamin D isn’t $25/pill, so no money to explore/validate what might help some of us.

        Here in the US, the majority of people who have died of 19, according to the CDC, had at least 1 comorbidity.

        How is it that so many who said we should follow the science are now ignoring it? Or picking and choosing what to believe based on preconceived opinions?

        This is madness.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          “Here in the US, the majority of people who have died of 19, according to the CDC, had at least 1 comorbidity.”

          I’m not sure why that matters. People with co-morbidities have as much right to not be exposed to threats to their health as people who don’t have them.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @jkross22 – some studies agree on the Vitamin D angle and some don’t. Overall, it’s Inconclusive. I live and work in a public Healthcare setting. If there was a cheap and easy fix, we’d be using it

          .https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2775003

          I could easily say that the vast majority of people who die of (insert disease here) had at least one comorbidity.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      “I’m pro-vaccine based on risk assessment, but having employers require vaccines is a slippery slope.”

      It’s really not. This was settled law in 1905 (Jacobson v. Massachusetts), and most everyone has been fine with conveying with vaccine mandates for my entire lifetime.

      Having employers make healthcare decisions for their workers was reaffirmed in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc in 2014.

      The bottom line here is that the slippery slope you’re so afraid of was descended in 1905, and all y’all were fine with it until recently.

      If you want your employer to get out of your personal healthcare decisions, I suggest voting for a single-payer healthcare system like Medicare for All — then all you have to deal with is the government. Until a major shift in his we do healthcare happens, though, the law WRT an employers power over you, and also vaccine mandates, remain a settled matters with more than a century of precedent.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      @JK:

      I see your point, but if I look at this through the lens of an employer, I have zero issues with requiring my people to get vaccinated. It’s a safety issue – I don’t want my people getting sick unnecessarily on my watch. First and foremost, that’s not something I want on my conscience, and letting the COVID bug run rampant through my workforce isn’t going to good for business.

      Could employees who refuse to get vaccinated sue over this? I suppose they could try. But they’d be arguing that their employer has no right to impose basic workplace safety rules. I’m no attorney, but I strongly suspect that suit’s DOA.

      However, here’s one suit I think might have legs: “We bought stock in your company, and you failed to maintain basic safety rules, and as a result, a large percentage of your workforce is too ill to work, and that cost me a great deal of money.”

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        @ Mike,

        The safety rationale is one that will likely be used if/when companies are sued. I see 2 problems with this:

        1) Traditional vaccines like TDAP and MMR are safe and effective. Their side effects are known and manageable.
        https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/dtap-tdap-vaccine.html
        https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html

        Contrast that with current 19 vaccines where effective rates are much lower, and have side effects that are not yet fully understood.

        2) Everyone can still spread this – doesn’t matter if you’re vaccinated, have natural immunity or are asymptomatic. If you’re Delta or Ford or whomever, and you decide to allow/hire only vaccinated people, what happens when those vaccinated people at work test positive?

        It’s good that Ford is taking the time to weigh the consequences instead of doing what Delta did. Fining your employees, some of which may have caught 19 and now have immunity without the vaccine, doesn’t seem like the right move.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          @JK:

          Again…the vaccines don’t prevent COVID, and were never meant to. They were meant to keep the recipient from getting critically ill. And in that sense, they’re very effective.

          So, assuming for argument’s sake that we all get exposed to the virus regardless of vaccination status, let’s circle this back to employers. It becomes a choice between a) watching their employees get the virus and a very small percentage of them becoming very ill from it because of vaccination (or not ill at all), or b) watching a much larger percentage get very ill because of less vaccination.

          And meanwhile, if the company chooses route B, they face a) a far higher chance of absenteeism, b) loss of productivity, c) potential litigation from employees, and d) even potential litigation from customers. Forget the moral aspect of it – none of that is even remotely good for business.

          As far as the litigation goes, maybe the suits succeed, maybe the don’t, but I guarantee you the suits WILL hit the evening news, and a company wants “I caught COVID when I went shopping at ABC Company” all over the 10:00 news like it wants an asteroid to fall to Earth on its’ headquarters.

          I’m sure some employees aren’t going to like this. But my question for them is this: would you like your company to make less money, and possibly put you on the next layoff round? That, I think, is what it boils down to.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            @ Mike,

            The vaccines were advertised to be over 90% effective. The vaccine makers and the government either forgot to include an asterisk or just didn’t understand effectiveness against variants. Not sure which is worse but they overplayed their hand.

            The reason A LOT of people choose to not get vaccinated, including some that absolutely should, is because they don’t trust. Shaming them, fining them, restricting their access to things won’t work. Until we address this, it doesn’t matter how many donuts Krispy Kreme gives away.

            We’re a pretty forgiving society when someone owns up to their mistakes, but we have a tendency to hold grudges and dig in when we see hypocrisy or someone is playing it fast and loose with the facts.

            As for companies, they can and will do what they think will improve shareholder value, or the bottom line for small shops. This will be an inconsistent, messy patchwork for some time.

            Still haven’t heard anyone say how we address those who’ve had 19 and now have antibodies and understandably don’t want/need the vaccine. Are we still blaming the unvaccinated for variants, or has that slice of shaming gone past its use by date?

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        “It’s a safety issue – I don’t want my people getting sick unnecessarily on my watch.”

        The vaxxed run this risk long term. Its one thing for a person to make a personal choice to take whatever risk there is but its quite another to be ordered with a gun to your head metaphorically speaking. The freedom of personal choice is where your conscience should be. They admit the vaxx doesn’t stop the spread, if you concern is spreading choosing the vaxx isn’t relevant.

        “Could employees who refuse to get vaccinated sue over this? I suppose they could try.”

        Probably but the fix is likely in through previous case law.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          I’m fine with personal choice.

          I’m not fine with irresponsible personal choice.

          I’m really not fine with irresponsible personal choice that serves little purpose aside from literally f**king the country over even more than it already has been.

          • 0 avatar
            IH_Fever

            Nope, someone having covid doesn’t f anyone over if they get the vax. May f the ones that don’t, may not. Be responsible for yourself and there’s no issue.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “Nope, someone having covid doesn’t f anyone over if they get the vax. May f the ones that don’t, may not. Be responsible for yourself and there’s no issue.”

            Which is why I don’t understand these rabid leftists that literally rage at people who have a reasonable hesitation or choose not to get an experimental vaccine.

            Why don’t these rabid leftists rage and throw tantrums when people don’t get their flu “vaccine”?

            The hypocrisy is astounding.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            @ Mike,

            “I’m really not fine with irresponsible personal choice that serves little purpose aside from literally f**king the country over even more than it already has been.”

            Since everyone can spread this, the responsible choice would be for everyone to mask regardless of vaccine status. Agreed?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “I’m not fine with irresponsible personal choice.”

            Who decides what is irresponsible?

            “someone having covid doesn’t f anyone over if they get the vax”

            Please catch up, vaxxites still can get sick and are being hospitalized. The whole point was to prevent severe scenarios which lead to a ventilator or death – that’s it. It cannot and will not end the plandemic, it cannot confer immunity, and it is now understood it does not reduce spreading of the Delta:

            “”High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus,” CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said in a statement. ”

            https://www.rollcall.com/2021/07/30/cdc-report-shows-vaccinated-people-can-spread-covid-19/

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          “The freedom of personal choice is where your conscience should be.”

          He cannot allow that. Personal choice to put or not put something in your body is not something you should have control over according to this adult child.

          • 0 avatar
            IH_Fever

            To be fair, the rabid come from both sides of the spectrum. I’ve seen plenty of conservative BS regarding covid as well. Covid is real, it’s potentially deadly for some, and no one, not me, not you, not the scientists or the doctors fully understand it. At some point it’s up to the individual to take care of themselves, a novel concept in today’s society.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Children’s Health Defense Fund:

      “EUA products are experimental under U.S. law. Both the Nuremburg Code and federal regulations provide that no one can force a human being to participate in this experiment.

      Under 21 U.S. Code Sec.360bbb-3(e)(1)(A), “authorization for medical products for use in emergencies,” it is unlawful to deny someone a job or an education because they refuse to be an experimental subject. Instead, potential recipients have an absolute right to refuse EUA vaccines.”

      In other words, anyone who pushes experimental vaccines on others, are Nurenbergs criminals and should be hanged as such, next to Keitel, Goring, Kaltenbrunner , etc

  • avatar
    MrIcky

    What’s the Bank of America connection to the rest of the article? I understand what Bank of America is doing and why people are angry- but why is that relevant to the rest of the article?

    the vaccines would have been and would continue to be a lot more effective with a higher adoption rate. If 70% of the population were fully vaccinated the delta variant may not even have gotten a foothold.

    its just garbage to say the vaccine isn’t safe when it is clearly more safe than covid. They still don’t even understand the full negative effects of covid but it’s clear that the disease has effects that can be lasting.

    then you have people trying to couch their anti-vaxxing on bad, often fake, science when really it’s all just politics at this point.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      The “politics” at work in the anti-vax “position,” far as I can tell, is just pure anger. It’s “I don’t trust anything and I don’t trust anybody, and I’m mad, so I’m gonna sit in this corner and sulk.”

      Too bad some of these corner-sitters are just going to get sick unnecessarily, or even die. But you can’t reason with people who are just unreasonable. Not gonna work.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        @ Mike,

        ” The “politics” at work in the anti-vax “position,” far as I can tell, is just pure anger. It’s “I don’t trust anything and I don’t trust anybody, and I’m mad, so I’m gonna sit in this corner and sulk.”

        There are crazies in every group. Most of the time, assuming an entire group is made of crazies leads to false assumptions. I see people on the pro-vaccination side, more often than not, treat the vaccines like it’s Scientology and they’re Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah’s couch.

        It’s like fanboyism went from Ford and Chevy to this.

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      The Bank of America connection is to show how many large employers are now requiring vaccination IDs. It’s just to help with speculation and to show the kinds of companies that think this isn’t a violation of people’s privacy and ability to consent. I also feel obligated to say that the vaccines they want to mandate have only been developed for the original two COVID strains. They are not for the current Delta strain, leaving me wondering what the purpose is beyond having more ways to keep tabs on workers.

      It’s my firm belief this will continue to accelerate and cause tons of problems as more people begin to feel like this is too invasive. COVID restrictions are already hurting productivity and causing deep societal rifts. New York City is fast becoming unlivable and people are furious with one another over for not being able to impose their will.

      A few months ago top politicians were saying they couldn’t and shouldn’t impose vaccine mandates. Now they’re urging business to do exactly that on their behalf. Here’s a very brief example:

      youtube.com/watch?v=wQIi90N7rQM

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        New York City, September 21, 2021 (AP)

        Bank of America today acknowledged that a COVID outbreak which killed one employee, and sickened seven others – four of whom ended up in intensive care – occurred at one of its’ New York City offices. Health officials have concluded through contact tracing that the outbreak was caused by one unvaccinated, asymptomatic employee coming to work and infecting the rest of the staff. The office was not open to the public.

        “We regret that this occurred at one of our offices,” said Lauren Freedom-Whiskey, Bank of America spokeswoman. “However, we recognize that we cannot force our employees to get vaccinated against their will. This would be a grave violation of their privacy and consent rights.”

        Meanwhile, Manhattan attorney Fred “Filthy” Lucre has announced he is filing a $300 million lawsuit against Bank of America on behalf of the four critically-ill employees, and the other 15 staff members at the office who were not infected.

        “Bank of America had a legal obligation to maintain a healthy workplace, and they failed. They will pay.”

        Bank of America’s legal office was contacted about the lawsuit, but did not return AP’s calls.

        Bank of America shares dropped 18% in today’s trading on the New York Stock Exchange.
        _______________________________________

        THIS is why employers are doing this.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I don’t believe them and I doubt Mr. Lucre’s suit goes anywhere unless he’s got some serious pull behind the scenes (though BoA may settle out of court and that may be his angle).

        • 0 avatar
          Matt Posky

          September 21, 2021? Your rebuttal comes from a story that happens… a month from now?

          I don’t care what excuses people use to justify this anymore. It remains a disgusting violation of our collective rights and privacy while America continues to embrace Chinese-style governance where large corporations are in lockstep with the whims of politicians. In my eyes, anyone that continues to go along with this is a second longer is an absolute coward or complete fool.

          Getting back onto the automotive angle, people are already boycotting companies that want to impose vaccine IDs (e.g. Bank of America) and everyone within the industry has told me general productivity has fallen off a cliff since 2020. This isn’t helping get the job done or improving the economy, and prior restrictions haven’t really done much to help reduce overall infection rates or improve vaccine acceptance. They don’t appear to be working well at all, frankly. So we’re left with this farcical, foolish, and wildly counter productive national campaign to alienate half a businesses customer base and workforce under the erroneous assumption that you can stop people from dying? The corporate press may support such a plan but regular people do not and they’re the ones I use to help inform my opinion and weigh the likelihood of its success.

          • 0 avatar
            jack4x

            Neither of you thought spokesperson “Lauren Freedom-Whiskey” might not be legitimate?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @Matt:

            Since when do companies not have the right to impose basic safety rules for their employees? Sorry, I’ll call that what it is: a a bunch of nonsense.

            That’s “China-style governance”? Bulls**t. It’s not governance at all – it’s privately held companies deciding to keep their employees safe, period. There are good moral and business reasons for doing so, and you know it. This is little different than a company sending a sick employee home – which it has every right to do, by the way – which anyone who’s worked has seen examples of. I certainly have. The only difference is that COVID is a lot more harmful than the usual stuff employees show up to work with. The last thing any company wants is a COVID outbreak among their employees – at the most basic level, it’s bad for business.

            But let’s return to the China angle – if you want to find companies that really don’t give a damn about workplace safety, the good ol’ People’s Republic should be your first stop. But I forgot…American companies are acting like China.

            If this is really the “personal freedom” hill you want to die on, then I suppose you should go for it. Personally, I’m a lot more concerned about things like the government outright spying on us, or companies collecting every iota of data they can on us, without our knowledge, and then selling it. Make your stand there, not here.

          • 0 avatar
            Matt Posky

            “If this is really the ‘personal freedom’ hill you want to die on, then I suppose you should go for it. Personally, I’m a lot more concerned about things like the government outright spying on us, or companies collecting every iota of data they can on us, without our knowledge, and then selling it. Make your stand there, not here.”

            Personal freedoms are worth dying for. This country (obviously I’m an American) was founded upon that premise. And if you’re concerned with companies collecting “every iota of data they can on us” why would you ever support them forcibly obtaining our medical records? I’m not your enemy on this. I write more beware of Big Brother articles about the industry than anyone else I am aware of and it has not made me a lot of friends in the corporate world. This issue is no different.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            “If this is really the ‘personal freedom’ hill you want to die on, then I suppose you should go for it. Personally, I’m a lot more concerned about things like the government outright spying on us, or companies collecting every iota…”

            Yea, back to personal freedom. Yea, your PF ends when gov. is spying on you.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @Matt:

            Let me get this straight: people should be willing to die over a political spat about a vaccine…that will keep them from dying.

            But remember, I’m the fool.

            Okay…

          • 0 avatar
            MrIcky

            My point isn’t a rebuttal to the story- it’s about “Bank of America was already being boycotted for handing over customer data to the FBI…”

            So are people boycotting Bank of America because: a) they want to impose vaccine requirements, or b) because they are giving information to the FBI.

            My understanding is b), but you’re writing this as if it really should be a) or they should be afraid it will be a) since b) is already happening.

            Frankly I’m only half awake or I’d make some sort of blistering rebuke about this jackassery, but meh- seems about par for the course.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Personal freedoms are worth dying for.”

            SARS-CoV-2 doesn’t care about your ideology but it will oblige you.

          • 0 avatar
            MrIcky

            “Personal freedoms are worth dying for. This country (obviously I’m an American) was founded upon that premise. And if you’re concerned with companies collecting “every iota of data they can on us” why would you ever support them forcibly obtaining our medical records? I’m not your enemy on this. I write more beware of Big Brother articles about the industry than anyone else I am aware of and it has not made me a lot of friends in the corporate world. This issue is no different.”

            A vaccination card is NOT the same as giving your whole medical history. Many jobs require far more intrusive medical information be given for fitness for duty. A card that confirms you got a shot is not even close to “forcibly obtaining your medical records”. Have you ever had a work injury and had to go through the OSHA reporting process?

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “September 21, 2021? Your rebuttal comes from a story that happens… a month from now?”

            Being a leftist I’d imagine Mikey would be better at lying.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “I also feel obligated to say that the vaccines they want to mandate have only been developed for the original two COVID strains”
        They work albeit less effectively on the new strains. It’s still the same pathogen. It hasn’t mutated to the point of being unrecognizable to the immune system.

        “In my eyes, anyone that continues to go along with this is a second longer is an absolute coward or complete fool.”

        Wow.. Try the courts.

        “Complete fool”

        I guess I’ll have to add you to the list containing the names Slavuto and EBFlex.

        Freedumb indeed.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        Wait, you have to show an ID to go to work? But requiring an ID is racist.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    This is an important news story but it is bringing out the typical toxic results as per usual. I suggest any future comments be viewed through the lens of the piece.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      It doesn’t help when the writer of the blog isn’t neutral. Journalism requires neutrality but I expect TTAC’S rebuttal will be, “we ain’t Journalists”. That’s readily fooking apparent.

      That’s one of the big problems with media today. Everyone is an OPINION host.

      Just give me the who, what, when, where, how, and why. Not an opinion…FACTS. Just facts.

      Somehow, somewhere, opinions are now expected to be viewed as facts.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        @ Lou,

        I’d argue journalism requires objectivity. No one is Switzerland. It’s not realistic for a person to be neutral, unless they’re completely dispassionate about a subject.

        We all want the facts, but we live in a time when the term ‘misinformation’ (at least we’ve moved on from fake news…. I hope) can be applied to things written 90 days ago, but could be argued they were true at the time. The problem is that we’re seeing an awful lot of things said that 90 days later, needs asterisks, clarifications, restatements or flat out open heart surgery.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @jkross22 – that is true. I can dream of neutrality. The point is that the “reporter” needs to be cognoscente of where they are coming from. Being self-aware of one’s built in bias is critical to presenting a story.

  • avatar
    JD-Shifty

    some of these goobs are right health care shouldn’t be tied to your employer. we should have govt healthcare

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Well, the only good news would be that all the everyday vaxxers-can-suck-it types could get their trip to the ICU paid for by taxpayers. I mean, if it was good enough for Trump…

      Come to think of it, I think they should have a pro-vaccine public service campaign with the theme of “Show Me Your Six Figure COVID ICU Bill”.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      And anyone that wants Government Healthcare should be required to obtain 100 percent of their healthcare through the Veteran’s Administration.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      I could trust the government… But not the American government… to manage a healthcare.
      But really, there is no government that managed it well. Germany, may be closest one. Best results achieved where there is a combination of government and private. But the story of the gov. healthcare is all the same – you might wait for procedures for months.
      There is no perfect solution. Especially in America, considering cost of education and doctor salary expectations

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Those who do not get the vaccine and get Covid-19 don’t have to worry about any side effects of the vaccine if they die.

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • akear: The android phone accounts for 73% of all smartphones purchased. Apple in comparison has a much smaller...
  • EBFlex: Scotty I get it. But that’s a very specific case. Plus a gas powered generator is a much better option...
  • el scotto: Flexy, on a farm almost nothing breaks in close vicinity to a wired power outlet. F-150’s, which you...
  • el scotto: @deanst Sir, we also sent oil back to our polite neighbors to the north.
  • el scotto: @DenverMike Sir, perhaps GM or Ford might -gasp- give away a few fleet vehicles. Have companies run them...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Who We Are

  • Adam Tonge
  • Bozi Tatarevic
  • Corey Lewis
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber