By on April 4, 2019

A piece you’ll see later this morning may have something to do with today’s topic. We’re talking handouts, incentives, rebates, discounts, credits — anything that can ease the financial burden of buying a new vehicle.

Specifically, that class of vehicle few people want to buy (and frankly, a class of vehicle more than a few people would rather not read about): Electric cars.

As Tesla and GM buyers face a once-juicy tax credit that’s now pared in half, and as other automakers stare down the barrel of a reduced federal incentive, we have to ask: what would it take, price-wise, to get you into one of them?

For the sake of simplicity, let’s say the only incentive to be had on any fully electric vehicle comes in the form of a government rebate.

You’re in the market for a vehicle. Perhaps you’ve made up your mind that now is the time you’ll finally go green. Some of you might prefer something more traditional, but are capable of being lured into an EV if the price is right. Still others might only take ownership of a gas-free car if a helpful outside force knocks the price down to near zero, because truckin’ is your life.

Now, each one of you is approaching this from a different place, with varying needs and attitudes dictating which electric model you’d buy, and what kind of rebate you’d need to usher you into that car. There’s no shortage of ICE-powered competition in this thought exercise. The market remains the same, but you’ve been offered the opportunity to save however much you want off the MSRP of an EV.

Sure, we’d all like a free car, but let’s be honest. Many of us would still pay a certain, perhaps not lofty, amount for a new car that eschews internal combustion. Looking at the offerings out there (Kona Electric, Tesla Model 3, Chevy Bolt, et al), which model would you choose, and how much would others have to pony up to nudge that vehicle to the top of your shopping list?

[Image: Hyundai]

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73 Comments on “QOTD: How Much Money Do You Need to Be Shown?...”


  • avatar
    Land Ark

    I would be a great candidate for an EV. I live close to work, have other cars on hand if needed, and my work is planning on offering free charging at all locations.
    What would it take to get me in one? If it’s priced comparably to an ICE then I have no reason to not at least look at it. The credit would be nice, but if the car is right for me I don’t really need it to sway me to an EV.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      You’ve actually said what I was trying to figure out a way to say. You’ve made three qualifiers before you even got to price. You live close to work, you have “real” cars (ICE) available to you and you need charging ability at work. A lot of people can’t even consider EVs because of no charging ability where they live. After all that EVs then have to be priced competitively with a similar ICE to even consider one

      I feel the same way and DON’T see an EV in my future

  • avatar
    eggsalad

    90%. Seriously. It would be virtually impossible for me to live with an electric car. There isn’t any way for me to plug in at my condo.

    Even assuming a valid 300-mile range, I would need a charge every 7-10 days. That means that about once a week I would have to drive to a charging station and sit there for one to several hours waiting for my car to charge.

    I also like to take road trips, and often cover 500+ miles in a single day. Driving an EV would mean stopping once or twice for hours to recharge. Or I could rent a car every 6 weeks or so for a road trip, with all the costs and hassles associated with that.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      There are millions of people who live in apartments and condos with no charging ability, this is a serious roadblock to much of EVs growth. Price is actually a minor consideration compared to infrastructure. It’s like when cars were first being built, without roads what was the point?

    • 0 avatar
      SSJeep

      Condo and townhome HOAs will need to start making plans for EV charging if they haven’t done so already. On the West Coast, condo garages have EV spaces that are numbered for residents that own an EV, and any resident can have an EV charger installed in their space for a flat cost.

      In Florida on the other hand, EV owners are largely scr3w3ed by HOAs and Condo Associations that are filled with retired people who see EVs as a threat to their lifestyles and everything else American. A friend tried to get a 110v standard outlet installed to charge his EV at a Florida condo and it was like pulling teeth with his association. He never did get it installed and instead charges at work.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        “retired people who see EVs as a threat to their lifestyles and everything else American”

        These are the same people who see DVRs as subversive and are anxiously waiting for the return of VCRs

        “Do you think anyone would be interested in this video equipment? (opens closet to reveal that it’s filled with video equipment)

        “No Dad, everything that’s in that closet I can do with just my phone”

        Dosen’t believe me, never will

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      “about once a week I would have to drive to a charging station and sit there for one to several hours waiting for my car to charge.”

      Not true. Quick charging would reduce that to about 20 minutes or less.

  • avatar
    Dan

    A whole lot.

    The only electric car on the market that I wouldn’t hate owning is a Tesla S. My attitude towards Tesla is negative enough – towards Musk the charlatan, towards the cult of his fans, towards the politics of the green movement, all of it – that even if I liked the car I’d still hate myself for owning it.

    Bring out a car like a Tesla S from a company that isn’t Tesla and I’d now cross shop it with my next car, which is probably a Challenger 392 next year and a new truck a couple of years after that. Credit 10K for the gas I’d not be buying and that leaves about 50K out of pocket.

    35K federal rebate, where are you?

  • avatar
    seth1065

    For me an EV would not really work, I could make it work but it would be a PITA, I am in sales so I drive all over the place going from Nj to VA and back in a day is not uncommon and doing that in a EV just would not work, also I do not have a garage at home so really no place to put a charger. I do have an extra car which I could use for my longer trips but it would not be great for that. So I do not see an EV in my future. If my company gave me one could I make it work, yes I guess but it would change how I do my job and at the end of the day it would not be worth it.

  • avatar
    TheDutchGun

    Pricing in line with the ICE equivalent, and similar range to the standard tank of gas of said ICE equivalent.

    And a full charge time in line with how long it takes to fill up at the pump.

    Make the experience the same and many more will adopt. Don’t care about long term fuel savings if the up-front cost is significantly higher.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      I’m flexible on the fill up times. I don’t think todays fill up times are outrageous on higher voltage. 20 to 30 min, is acceptable.

      However I will say “+1” to all your other points.

      Range is the biggest sticker for me. Given that most gas cars can’t hit 400 miles of highway range on a single tank, you’ve at least got to get to around 320-340 for me to consider the technology “mature.”

      • 0 avatar
        MBella

        If you fast charge regularly, your battery will degrade very quickly. Those are really only meant to be used for occasional road trips.

        • 0 avatar
          PrincipalDan

          @MBella, which is “exhibit A” for those of us who live in flyover country AND prefer to drive than go to the airport, suffer through security, and wait and wait and wait to get on an effing plane.

          I’ll be putting roughly 3000 miles on a vehicle in a single road trip this summer. Gallup to Nashville to Columbus OH and then back by a route not yet planned.

          I could commute in an electric but it’s hard to have one as your “Wagon Queen Family Truckster.”

        • 0 avatar
          TheDutchGun

          Quick charge technical bits aside, that’s where the charge time needs to be or at least close before I would consider one.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          “If you fast charge regularly, your battery will degrade very quickly. Those are really only meant to be used for occasional road trips.”

          That’s not really true anymore depending on the manufacturer. The best documented case is Tesloop which regularly quick charges. For example on one of their cars:

          “Battery degradation over the course of the first 194,000 miles was ~6% with multiple supercharges a day to 95-100%, instead of the recommended 90-95%.”

          https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/16/tesloops-tesla-model-s-surpasses-400000-miles-643737-kilometers

      • 0 avatar
        TheDutchGun

        I do feel a sudden sense of urgency on the EV side in the past couple of years.

        It’s as though the car company execs have received some inside information that the world’s oil supply is dwindling.

        The current EV situation compared to the fate of the Saturn EV-1 where the car & oil companies actively worked to kill it. A lot of difference 20 years makes.

        I suspect the innovation and advancements will move very quickly.

        I don’t think I’ll ever consider a vehicle just an appliance, which is unfortunate for my wallet, so hopefully the future still brings somewhat affordable vehicles that are enjoyable to drive.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        “…you’ve at least got to get to around 320-340 for me to consider the technology “mature.”

        That’s pretty close to coming true.

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        PrincipalDan,

        Some enterprising ICE manufacturer is going to figure out that there is a market for larger fuel tanks/longer range on conventional vehicles – e.g., 550 mile nominal range for $500 MSRP option cost.

  • avatar
    2manycars

    Even if I were to consider purchase of a new vehicle I have no interest in electric cars and consider them to be a boondoggle in their present form. No amount of money would convince me to buy one. No amount of “nudging” from armed federal and state gangsters will do so either.

    There is no legitimate reason for the push towards electrics and current models are inherently gimped to an extent that makes them far less capable than the cheapest gasoline model in all but a limited set of circumstances. Until a better dense and portable source of electric power is developed they will continue to be inferior and in my view unsuitable for purchase.

  • avatar
    993cc

    It’s a bit academic for me, since at my income new cars are out of the question, but if through some miracle my income were to rise to the point where I could afford a $40,000.00 car it wouldn’t take a subsidy to get me into an E.V. Other cars at this price point don’t offer features that matter to me more than the efficiency gains of an E.V. do. Certainly in the case of the Kona in the above pic, there isn’t any other Hyundai that appeals to me at any price.

  • avatar
    MiataReallyIsTheAnswer

    When we bought our Volt (new), I would have been pretty happy with just the federal 7500 bucks. As it turned out, I was able to get nearly 20 Grand off the $45k MSRP, then qualified for something like $7,000 of the possible $7,500 tax deal, so ended up with a brand new, full warranty, fully loaded very nice car for 18 or 19 Grand. Would I take that deal again? Let me think about it for a minute —– Hell yeah. Sadly I doubt that will be repeatable in the future.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    I’ve looked into a used Leaf as a senior alternative for local driving, and to pass on to the grandkids when they hit driving age. But the range is so short (due to battery deterioration) and the cost of a replacement pack so high that it just doesn’t make sense.

  • avatar
    Maymar

    I’m less interested in the rebate required compared to what the premium I’m willing to pay for an EV is over a comparable ICE model. I’d take a rough guess that I’d save about $6500 in fuel over 5 years, and I could justify a small premium for the EV’s driving merits (smoother, quieter, instantaneous power, good engine braking) – I figure spending about $7500 extra over a gasser is in the ballpark of reasonable.

    We’re getting close to that being plausible – with a $5000 Canadian federal credit, an e-Golf or Soul EV drop to about $32k, compared to their gas equivalents of about $22-23k. I also typically drive less than 400km a week, so range anxiety’s not an issue. So long as I could get my condo board to allow me to wire up my parking spot for charging, I’d certainly consider it.

  • avatar
    jh26036

    If my wife’s 2017 Volt gets totaled for whatever reason, I would like another PHEV. It’s a brilliant drivetrain stuck in a body that is just a little too small for family use. That car cost us $16k brand new after all discounts, applicable state rebates, and federal credits.

    ICE cars are very archaic after using an EV for daily runabout tasks.

  • avatar
    Fordson

    Steph, I think you need to re-pose the question, with a couple of caveats:

    – unless your current vehicle use profile is utterly incompatible with current EV technology and infrastructure

    – unless you are not in the market for a new vehicle

    – unless you are mostly interested in virtue signalling to your fellow ICE-diehards that you’re a real ‘Merican

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Everything changes when you lease, which is what nearly all non-Tesla EV drivers do.

    In my case, the Federal subsidy was taken by the mfr (12 Leaf and 19 Ioniq EV), and the lease payments were/are far less than a regular car payment. I would not have bought either car without the subsidy.

    However, with Tesla now owning 80% of the EV market, and very few of their cars are leased (n Model 3s to date), most people are actually buying them. As it is, one of the reasons I passed on the Model 3 was its price, even with subsidies, sent a message I was unwilling to bear.

  • avatar
    DweezilSFV

    No. I’ve done enough to be “green” by being a tight wad.

  • avatar
    forward_look

    EV technology is rapidly changing, and depreciation is going to be a killer for years to come. Look at the old Leafs – same deal continues today.

    Someday, maybe soon, EVs will make sense for most everybody.

  • avatar
    stingray65

    30 to 50% of recent Norwegian new car sales are electrics, even though many Norwegians live in apartments and winters are long and cold. All they needed to do to achieve these impressive EV sales was give car buyers $30K to $100K in tax benefits, free parking and charging, free entry to toll roads, access to the mass-transit lanes, and make massive investments in charging stations. And as an added bonus, Norwegian EV owners don’t have to use $8 per gallon gasoline loaded with taxes, but instead charge up with subsidized electricity. The real mystery is why anyone is still buying diesel or gasoline cars.

    • 0 avatar
      Rick Astley

      Isn’t the real mystery how long and to what extent the taxpaying society as a whole of a nation will choose to subsidize individual mobility through luxury vehicles?

      In general, the Norwegians are a polite, hospitable people. But subsidizing the wealthy is enough to test even the patience of a people who discovered good manners on a pillaging run back in 795 C.E

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        Now I’ve learned that a Leaf is a luxury vehicle.

      • 0 avatar
        stingray65

        Revenues from oil exports allow the generous subsidies, which were supposed to end when 50,000 EVs were sold, which happened in 2016. But once generous subsidies are in place, it is difficult to drop them and they have been continued and now there is some vague talk about ending them in the near future. I’m sure dealers and importers are lobbying to keep them in place, because EV sales will drop dramatically if EV’s get no tax benefits versus regular cars.

  • avatar
    Jerome10

    I don’t care to see public money thrown at it. The issue is cost. Until it is within spitting distance of ICE it’s a no go.

    My issue is also the long trip one. I’m not waiting hours to recharge on a journey, end of story.

    I like the idea of a Volt but a compact car that costs $35,000 is NOT going to work.

    I like how electric drive feels, but I’m not going to pay much more to have it, plus the downsides. Add in I’m not convinced that when you factor in battery metals mining, electricity generation, battery disposal etc that electric cars really ARE better for the environment than gasoline means I’m not running to my Tesla dealer thinking I’m doing the Earth some sort of huge favor.

    Bottom line: Free markets (no government handouts or banning of ICE vehicles to prop up demand), similar price to ICE, and ability to “refuel” in nearly the same amount of time as a gasoline car.

    So, do I see a big market for EVs? Nope. I just don’t. Plug-ins yes. Hybrids yes. Hydrogen very possibly (overcomes the slow refuel problem). Pure electric I just don’t see it.

    • 0 avatar
      MoparRocker74

      You’re hitting on some good points. As a replacement for the low end miserable econoboxes designed to slog out the daily commute, THEORETICALLY electric cars make sense. But that all falls apart once you realize that you’re spending 2-3x the money to get a crappy little blob with no clear advantage over a much cheaper little blob. Unless an electric version of a corolla, accent etc is just as cheap if not cheaper than the ICE car (without stacking the deck with subsidies) then its a loser immediately. Unless you’re coming out cheaper from day 1, then the whole purpose of cheap econo-cars is blown right out of the water.

  • avatar
    SSJeep

    Put $10k on the hood of a loaded Bolt or Leaf plus a Federal tax credit and Id buy one tomorrow. The purchase would save me the $70-100 per week I spend in gas for commuting and driving to meetings.

  • avatar
    spookiness

    Situations change. But given my current situation (single, urban dweller, condo with no charging facilities at present) just going no-car would make more sense than an EV.

  • avatar
    MoparRocker74

    There’s literally no bribe that will get me to go green. Im driving a Hemi Challenger. ANY electric car is a serious downgrade in every way and if the reasons for that aren’t immediately apparent, you’re incapable of understanding. You might as well be asking how much money it would take for me to voluntarily become a quadriplegic for the rest of my life at that point.

    The ONLY place an EV would have for me is a cheaper version of Uber/Lyft in a kind of on-demand rideshare where id rather not drive anyway: a trip to the airport, party downtown where drinking is involved, weather is absolute garbage, etc. My daily commute is so short, mpgs are irrelevant.

    • 0 avatar
      MoparRocker74

      I should mention that my Challenger is a ‘09 R/T 6spd that just cracked the 40k mile mark and I own it outright. It’s a damn good running car with excellent paint, no dents or rust, doesn’t squeak or rattle. It’s my favorite color (deep water blue) and is equipped about 95% as if I’d have ordered it myself. So yeah…literally NO way for me to come out ahead with an EV at any price if it’s not completely free—with the caveat that I keep my current car also.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    If I were retired and could drive it directly from my driveway onto the golf course and then to the market and back home again, it might work pretty well. Electrics are outstanding for retirement communities. Otherwise, it is usually impractical or absurd. I would love to take advantage of the very subsidies I resent so much, but it still makes no sense. And no, the technology is not advancing very quickly. It is advancing slowly. Physics are a btch.

    It is not ideology that keeps people from buying them; it is ideology that keeps them on the road. “Compliance car” is a pretty honest term, and Tesla is a cult.

  • avatar
    chaparral

    What it took for me: performance between a Hemi Charger and a 392 Charger, price after subsidy between the two as well, similar interior space, 310-mile summer range, and a 240V outlet at home. I drive 40,000 miles per year, so my payback relative to driving a 10-year-old car that gets 20 mpg is ~7 years.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    This isn’t as simple a question as it would appear up front – given the current state of EV tech, it’s the cheaper vehicles that are out of whack price-wise with the market. A Leaf or Bolt has a similar performance profile to a contemporary compact, and costs more. Therefore, the appeal of these cars lies mainly with “green appeal,” and that’s a narrow market slice.

    But as you move up the price ladder, EVs make a lot more sense. The Model 3 is, for all intents and purposes, an electrified entry-luxury sedan, and appeals to someone who would shop for an Audi A4 or BMW 330. A Model 3 will run with either of those cars easily, looks cool (assuming you can deal with the snout, which I can’t), has tons of gee-whiz tech, and gets refueled every night in your garage. What’s not to like?

    As the tech improves, though – which is clearly happening – we’ll start seeing more EVs that truly compete with ICE compacts or midsizers. When that happens, the “green appeal” will become less of a selling point.

  • avatar
    Rick Astley

    This core belief and philosophy has treated the wealthy and early adopting Tesla demographic very well:

    “Let somebody else assume the risk and cost”

    One might say they emulate their crowned prince, Elon Musk, and his lifelong goal of allowing taxpayers to assume debt and risk burden for projects he could personally afford.

  • avatar
    stuki

    If it’s within EV range, it’s within bike range. And even in Cali, the well connected haven’t yet been able to legislate a way, for even the four wheel vehicles only they can afford to drive, to properly lane split…

    Aside from picking up people at the airport; San Francisco to Bozeman on backroads or some such, is my main use for a car, and I can’t imagine Tesla is in any hurry to build charging stations in Gabbs, Nevada.

  • avatar
    Garrett

    I have a commute that is long by miles, but reasonable by time, and will put over 20k miles a year on a car.

    In theory, an electric vehicle would make a lot of sense for me if it had the right range.

    Problem is, I don’t find them enjoyable.

    I actually like the sound of an ICE. I’m seriously tempted to go for a Jaguar XF or F pace in S trim for my next vehicle, because of how awesome they sound (go watch YouTube videos of the supercharged V6).

    So short of being so cheap that I can keep one around as a spare, it’s a hard pass for me.

  • avatar
    MGS1995

    I’m a good candidate for an EV; I have a 60 mile round trip commute and a few other vehicles in my stable. Just give me a Camry sized vehicle at a similar price and I’d be willing to buy it.

    • 0 avatar
      Robotdawn

      I have a similar commute. I’d be fine with a Bolt or Leaf, but I’m not paying $1 more than what I paid for a Cruze. Price parity, that’s all it really takes.
      Until that happens, EVs are just toys for people who have money enough not to worry about cost when it comes to car choices.

  • avatar
    Arthur Dailey

    The primary reason that ICE vehicles ‘won’ against other forms of motivation in the early 20th century is that their fuel was easy to distribute, cheap and plentiful.

    Other than that what advantages do internal combustion engines have over electric motors? Correct me if I am wrong but don’t electric motors are more efficient, and are lighter, provide instant torque, longer wearing, require less maintenance and have fewer wearing parts?

    So aren’t those defending ICE, much like those who prefer vinyl to digital recordings?

    As it currently stands, electric vehicles do have issues that probably limit them primarily to 2nd/3rd or prestige/expensive vehicle status. But that will not last.

    I kick myself for not leasing a Ford C-Max while the Ontario government still provided incentives for driving such a vehicle.

    Currently, if I can/could afford it, I would prefer that my next vehicle be a hybrid, like the Kia Niro.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Some see the EV/ICE thing as a binary choice, and it isn’t. There’s room in the market for both vehicle types.

    • 0 avatar
      ToddAtlasF1

      They won because their fuels have high energy densities. They still do. The shift in advantages has been purely in the ICE direction. They retain their advantages in energy density and refueling rate, their fuels are far more widely available than when they vanquished EVs, and they have improved drastically in cleanliness, NVH, and dependability. You are brainwashed if you think EVs offer any competition without forced redistributionism.

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        @Todd, ICE engines are and probably always will be inferior to electric motors regarding NVH and emissions. So your conclusion is based on factual errors.

        And do you rely believe that technology will stand still regarding charging, energy sources/retention, etc?

        The use of batteries will probably reach a dead end. But forms of hybrid power may very well be the future.

    • 0 avatar
      MoparRocker74

      Electric motors themselves offer everything you just said. HUGE omission: without a power source, that motor is a boat anchor. Batteries are the weak link. They degrade quickly and are MEGA expensive to replace. Anyone who has a smartphone or cordless tools understands this. Who re-batteries their smartphones after 2-3 years? No one since it’s obsolete anyway. Now I’ve re-batteried tools because if I have one on the system, I’ve got several using the same batteries and at that point it’s cost effective to shell out $100 to keep $300-$400 worth of tools going. If I just had a drill and thats it, not so much.

      And if you think that in 20 years there’s gonna be the EV equivalent of the perfectly serviceable $2500 Corolla allowing the frugal the poor, and those preserving a nice car to have cheap wheels…ain’t gonna happen. EVs will be virtually worthless on the secondhand market for the same reason as older smartphones and computers.

  • avatar
    newenthusiast

    Given my usage (hauling up to 5 kids plus gear a few days a week who all want to charge their devices en route, and then often placing paddle boards on the roof and/or hauling jet skis on the weekends), I’m not sure that that there is an electric on the market that could be my one car. I could see getting something like the Pacifica Hybrid though. Not sure how that tows.

    But a purely electric vehicle? I’m not sure that there is one that fits the bill right now. As long as its price competitive with any other vehicle that fits my needs, I’d look at one in the future.

    Important point, however: I never buy new, so all these incentives are a moot point. I’d buy it like any other car. Look at its price, condition, and any available maintenance history (the more thorough, the better).

  • avatar
    SilverCoupe

    For those of us who have come of age with ICE vehicles, the answer might be aural – I want a car that makes a bit of a racket when accelerating, even if the electric car might be faster.

    For those coming of age with electric cars, that may no longer be an issue.

    Same sort of reason that on TV the starship “Enterprise” (or “Discovery,” for you young ‘uns) makes an increasing sound when going to warp, even though there would be no actual sound transmission in space. Sound matters!

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      SilverCoupe,

      I get your ‘sound’ argument, but now that the ICE makers are faking it, that’s off the table for me as a pro/con for ICE or EV – i.e., if ICE can fake the sound, fake the same sound in the EV and move on.

      I don’t think the ICE guys should have ever considered faking it. But now that faking is allowed, I would like my next EV to sound like a Rocketdyne F-1 (Saturn V S-IC first stage engine) whenever throttle is applied >70% from a standstill (would set a higher threshold but wheelspin might be an issue).

    • 0 avatar
      HotPotato

      I like the EV whine, like a faraway jet engine. But it’s quiet. They should probably let you pipe it into the cabin for more go-fast stimuli. BMW covers up the nasty diesel-like clatter of a direct-injection gas turbo 4 by piping sexy fake noises into the cabin, so the technology exists…

  • avatar
    Flipper35

    Bring a Model S down to Model 3 prices and maybe I would get an S. Pay me a bit and I might take a 3. No, scratch that. Pay me enough to retire and I might take a 3. I can’t stand the exterior looks or the dash on those.

    Volt wouldn’t be bad, or a Leaf if it met my daily 40 mile round trip commute but they would be small for family trips.

    For those, it is less about the money and more about changing habits and freedoms to move about on a whim.

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    I keep vehicles for a minimum of a decade and 150,000 miles. You can’t pay me enough to drive a penalty box that long.

  • avatar
    HotPotato

    Set the incentive high enough to erase the price difference between the typical mainstream EV and comparable typical mainstream gas car. Not “after gas savings” — before gas savings. That will give people confidence that they are for sure coming out ahead. Ontario until recently did this with a $13,000 incentive.

    I don’t know of anyplace in the US where combined state and federal rebates are that big. But they’re pretty good in some places like California and Colorado, let’s say $10 grand total.

    I will say though that a non-refundable, non-carryable, year-end tax credit is a TERRIBLE way to do an incentive. People aren’t sure whether or how much it will apply to them. If you want an incentive to work fully, either make it payable as a check within a week of registration, or automatically apply it at the point of sale.


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