By on August 6, 2018

One of my biggest pet peeves is the very existence of stop-start systems in modern vehicles. In theory, they’re intended to improve fuel economy by shutting down the engine while the car is stationary — when you’re effectively getting zero miles per gallon. In practice, they’re more of a nuisance than anything else. Every time I’m in a car that’s unfamiliar to me and the system shuts down the engine at a stop light, there is a fraction of a second where I assume something has gone terribly wrong and my stomach drops out of my body and onto the seat. Maybe I’ve just driven too many junkers but the sensation is always unsettling to a point where I have to deactivate the system to maintain peace of mind.

I am also fairly confident that repeatedly cycling your engine in stop-and-go traffic isn’t great for the crankshaft and a host of other components, even if the manufacturer is trying its utmost to mitigate the issue. But I’m aware that some people don’t mind their vehicle becoming a jittery, broken-feeling mess in an urban environment so long as it saves them some fuel in the long run. Unfortunately, that information hasn’t made me hate it any less.

What about you? Is stop-start technology the bane of your driving existence or a necessary evil in the war on emissions? 

In a half-hearted attempt to play devil’s advocate, I can acknowledge that the system does help some larger engines fly beneath the EPA’s radar by improving fuel economy during city driving. You can also shut the system down (every single time you enter the vehicle) if you don’t want to deal with it.

It should also be said that the technology works far better on hybrid vehicles — thanks to a bigger battery and integrated electric motor. This results in a sensation that doesn’t feel like you are destroying the vehicle every time you ask it to resume operation. Likewise, more recent editions of stop-start technology are decidedly less obnoxious than their earlier counterparts. But I can’t name any since manufacturer who has gotten it so right that it would be forgivable on anything other than the laziest of Sunday drives.

As for the reliability aspect, automakers have upped their lubrication, hardware, and battery games to avoid disaster. However, how effective this will be when you’re asking the system to work overtime is still unclear. I’m skeptical of the durability of any motor that is asked to start up twenty times or more often every single day. There’s also the matter of how much fuel you’ll actually conserve. If your commute includes 30 minutes of gridlock, then you’re likely to notice savings at the pump. Otherwise, automatic stop-start seems rather unnecessary.

That won’t keep it from becoming ubiquitous, though. With automakers seeking to improve fleet-wide efficiency in order to keep regulators off their backs, there’s no way in hell this technology will vanish overnight. If it’s going to die, people will have to come out against it in droves — just like in my dream.

[Image: Ford Motor Co.]

 

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253 Comments on “QOTD: How Much Do You Hate Stop-Start Technology?...”


  • avatar
    stars9texashockey

    Will not consider a vehicle that does not allow you to disengage this permanently (not at every start.)

  • avatar
    redapple

    6 months ago, I was going to buy a new small SUV. I 1st tried the new Equinox. NOPE. NO buy. Start stop that cannot be turned off.

    Bought the Forester for a host of reasons. No start/stop too!!!

    I ve pieced this from a few different sources.
    Start stop ,,,,,
    -costs about $270-300 per car.
    -start cycles increase from 5000 to 50,000 per car life.
    -saves 1 gallon per 1000 miles. (at 25mpg and 50% city driving) or 4%. Payback is ….forever !!!

    I wont touch a car with start/stop. Boycott !!!

    • 0 avatar
      dividebytube

      The old man bought a new Equinox to use as a city driver. The few times I was a passenger, I found the effect disconcerting. But I’m a stick-shift driver, and have also owned a fair share of beaters. That feeling that I’m not going to have the power there – even though it is illogical – is enough to steer me away from stop-start systems.

      Even when I’m walking outside and hear a car with it, I find the effect odd. “Why did they turn their car off?” is my first thought.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      This,

      Will not buy a car with stop-start, last two vehicles, 4Runner, and SS do not have it.

      I hate when I get rentals with the stupid crap, the Malibu I had was horrible, it was extremely slow to wake up, paired with the horrible 1.5T I was ready to pull my hair out in frustration. 21MPG was also bad but that’s another thread.

    • 0 avatar
      stingray65

      redapple – I suspect your figures are pretty accurate, and just demonstrate that stop-start installations are driven entirely by CAFE and equivalents in Europe, etc. and not by any actual cost-benefit to consumers. I suspect 8-10 speed automatics, cylinder deactivation, heavy use of carbon-fiber and aluminum, and all forms of hybrids and EVs also have no reasonable payback to consumers, otherwise many of them would have been widely adopted years ago by automakers seeking to increase their market share and profits, rather than to avoid fines and sanctions.

    • 0 avatar
      Guitar man

      …plus add the $900 battery that has to be replaced every year, the starter every other year and all the extra wear on the engine.

      It’s complete and utter rubbish.

  • avatar
    Steve Biro

    Start-stop ranks up there with automatic braking and lane-departure warning as complete deal-breakers for the purchase of any new vehicle.

    I would have to have the abilty to EASILY and QUICKLY turn off any of these “features” in order for me to accept their presence in any car or truck that I buy or lease.

  • avatar
    fn2drive

    Great topic for a thread. They are simply appalling and unnecessary. They add complexity and uncertainty for tiny if any real gains. But my real peeve is the inability to have a menu option to turn it off forever. The press the button nonsense every time you start your car is absurd as well. My car-my choice. If you choose to take on the uncertain impact of future repairs and failure as well as death when the system doesn’t respond quickly enough for .5 mpg’s ( maybe), I have no problem with that. You’re choice. But please leave the rest of us alone.

    My final observation is that GM’s non- defeatable implementation might be among the silliest decisions ever. Every time I look at one of their newly launched vehicles which generally are very good and see it has start/stop, I move on to a competitors product. Perhaps non-enthusiasts don’t know or don’t care but enough people do that it will make a difference. Other than potentially building in failure and future repair and parts work which is your point, what is the actual reason for having no override? Do they think they’re that good? Non deafeatable start/stop-just say no.

    • 0 avatar
      bullnuke

      I drove GM vehicles as a kid and a few once I was weaned off of VW’s in the early ’90s. They were mostly okay but un-defeatable start-stop keeps me from even perusing much less considering purchase of any vehicles on their lots.

  • avatar
    Zackman

    I suppose on one hand I see the logic, but on the other hand, I don’t like the stop.
    /start system at all, although it’s getting more seamless all the time.

    Machts nichts…

  • avatar
    SaulTigh

    I bet you’re fun at parties.

  • avatar
    Sub-600

    Start/Stop and CVT are two deal breakers.

    • 0 avatar

      What’s wrong with CVT’s? Better acceleration coming out of curves since you are in a good gear ratio.

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        Having put 140K on the CVT, it is the rare time when my opinions align with Sub-600…I would never buy one. (the car I drive with it belongs to my employer). Hit the gas and the engine does its best to moo like a cow…just unnatural…

      • 0 avatar
        paxman356

        I could care less about how it sounds when it performs, or how it performs. I’ve test driven two used cars (Nissans) with CVT, and they both had transmission issues.It’s a small sample size, but I’d worry about the reliability issues surrounding them.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          “I could care less”

          That means you do care… at least a little.

          Google “Word Crimes” by Weird Al.

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus

            C’mon, jkross, tell us your VIN number. Illregardless, do you have over 150,000K miles on your car yet? Did you get the breaks done? Hopefully the Head Casket doesn’t go bad. You no your in for big big repair bills if it does. It can be two expensive on some cars.

          • 0 avatar
            JimC2

            “C’mon, jkross, tell us your VIN number. Illregardless…”

            Reading all that made me crunge.

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus

            Haha. You’re welcome.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Somewhere, someone’s English teach winced in pain.

        • 0 avatar
          JohnTaurus

          Nissan has had the worst performing CVT in modern cars, not to mention one of the least reliable. Its amazing how refined other systems are by comparison.

          I don’t like CVTs, either, but using Nissan’s CrapTronic as a baseline would be like saying “I hate all cars because I once drove a 1994 Kia Sephia and it was awful.”

          • 0 avatar
            HotPotato

            It’s strange, I drove a couple of Altimas with CVTs and found them exemplary: none of the lazy kickdowns, gear hunting, etc. that drive me up the wall with a stepped automatic, always in “the perfect gear,” and damn near hybrid MPG. I was really impressed. Then I drove a Maxima with a CVT and hated it: sloppy linkup from a stop, weird non-linear response, etc.

            Maybe it was just manufacturing variance but I suspect it was more a function of the engines: CVTs excel with an engine that’s a little short on torque for the size of the car, but struggle with a musclebound geek of a V6. I remember a review of an Audi V6 with CVT back when CVT was the exciting new thing in transmission smoothness, that found the car ironically hard to drive smoothly because the wide ratio spread meant it inevitably spun its wheels from a stop.

      • 0 avatar
        gtem

        Big3 Beancounter, I’d say you’re doing a rather poor job as a Tesla ambassador. You come across as a guy who likes the smell of his own farts.

      • 0 avatar
        Flipper35

        So, Big 3, how does your Tesla move if it has no transmission? I thought they had a single speed transmission in all of them, or are they direct drive?

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          “First I’m told I’m no fun at parties. So I tell a joke, and everyone gets offended. ”

          no, you fart in a room full of people and wonder why people are giving you the stink eye. You should know damn well a site like this isn’t going to be receptive to your “Rah rah Tesla! Aren’t I awesome for liking Tesla!”

          Frederic Lambert runs a site which would be more to your liking.

  • avatar
    megaphone

    Can’t say I noticed it much after about the first day of driving and never turned the system off. Doesn’t bother me.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      This. I had quit noticing it on the F150 by the end of the test drive. Only time I think about it is when people on here gripe about it.

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      I like it as some stop lights are 90s and wish it would regenerate sooner for the next stop right away. Otherwise I have to shift to sport mode to preserve the engine stopping and then return to drive.

  • avatar
    SaulTigh

    I’ve only every had one car with it (BMW 320i), and of course it stays off between starts unless I want it on. I’ve very rarely used it in my nearly 3 years with the car, because it’s already bar-none the most fuel efficient vehicle I’ve ever owned. So fuel efficient I don’t even mind the premium gas.

    In the back of my mind, I was kinda glad it was there “just in case” gas every went to $5 a gallon in my neighborhood or I was low on fuel and needed to stretch things out in an emergency.

    Would not buy a vehicle where I had to push a button every time I got in it.

    • 0 avatar
      tnk479

      I had the 2015 328i and I kept the start/stop disabled because it was terrible.

      The problem is that the start/stop disable button was right above the starter button and I would accidentally hit it while turning the car off sometimes.

  • avatar
    mechimike

    You know what cars do not ever have Automatic Start-Stop (ASS)?

    Ones with Manual Transmissions.

    • 0 avatar
      Boff

      Not true…our 328i had it (6MT). I believe the car would only turn off if you had it neutral and the clutch out (duh). When I’d depress the clutch it’d restart. I would pretend I was a Le Mans prototype in the pits (they have to turn off the engine while the car is serviced) and when the car came off the jacks…er I mean when the light turned green… I fire up the car, jam it in first, dump the clutch and roar away.

    • 0 avatar
      paxman356

      I’ve visited the Netherlands twice in the last two and a half years. Both times my father-in-law rented an extra vehicle, and it was a black turbo 3 cylinder with a manual and start-stop tech. In both cases, the way he drives works perfectly with it. When he’s at a stop, he’ll keep a foot on the brake, and pop it out of gear. When the light turns green, he pushes in the clutch, and puts it back into gear. It will start then, not when he pushes in on the gas, or lets off the brake.

      I’m not saying I think it’s a good idea, because the stress it puts on parts is probably not worth it.

      The cars were a VW Golf and a Ford Focus Estate. Both had really good power and fuel efficiency, better than his i20. He’s looking to step up to an i30 since he’s travelling more on the highway, but I don’t think Hyundai has anything like an I3 turbo for it.

    • 0 avatar
      Advance_92

      I was scared half to death renting a Volvo in 2015 that stopped at a traffic light. I thought it stalled and pushed in the clutch while hitting the start button once or twice before I realized how the start/stop worked. It had a defeat button but that was only for as long as the car was running.

      Luckily outside of cities Europe is designed without stop signs or traffic lights.

    • 0 avatar
      White Shadow

      Audi just started putting it on their only two cars available with a stick—-the new A4 & A5.

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    Wow, I am 100% opposite. I love the stop/start technology and have long been a proponent of it. It is a simple way for a modern ICE to not be wasteful.

    I don’t find the systems to be all that intrusive, and I have found that when I rent a car with the system it makes driving whatever car more entertaining. You have to be more engaged as a driver with stop/start as your braking release needs to be a second or so sooner to allow for the restart.

    From an environmental stand point you get small gains for a small cost. That works for me. Sure, one car is no big deal, but how many gallons of gas do we idle away everyday in this country? If we can unobtrusively minimize the waste, where is the harm? I will concede that I have not put a lot of thought into the extra starts and the potential for long term wear and tear, but I am thinking those concerns may be over wrought a bit considering I still use, regularly, a 327 CID from a 64′ installed in a 57′ with the original crank. Leaks a bit, but runs fine every time, and god only knows how many start/stop cycles it has gone through.

    • 0 avatar
      aquaticko

      Glad I’m not the only one. My mother rented a brand new Expedition for a family road trip, and I spent every time driving it trying to get the engine to shut off when we stopped; wasn’t easy, as it was during mid-July, during a hot, muggy stretch when the A/C was almost always on max. But it still stop/started most of the time. I found it quite seamless, and my mother–who’s not really a car person–didn’t even notice it unless I mentioned it to her. And we’re talking about the feature being used on a (relatively) big engine.

      I, personally, can’t stand inefficiency (driving that big Expedition bugged me more than a bit), and there’s just no denying that running an engine when it isn’t needed is unnecessary. My ’06 Forester lacks any modern efficiency items other than a VVT system for higher in the rev range, and much though I love my little wagon, I’m anxious to switch it over to a much more efficient new Insight or Ioniq. Ignoring the fact that the most efficient thing to do, ultimately, is to keep the same car permanently…gotta live a little bit.

      • 0 avatar
        syncro87

        Aquaticko, you would love my wife’s ’18 Prius. Everything in that car is geared toward efficiency, and the car makes it a point to let you know in a bunch of ways if you want it to. Readouts on the dash, detailed efficiency reports, real time graphs, etc. Multiple modes to select from on the efficiency spectrum. Even the A/C can be set up to favor the driver as not to waste cooled air on empty passenger seats. Every time you shut the car down at the end of a trip, you get a grade on how efficiently you used the engine, braking system, and climate control. The engineering evident in the thing is remarkable. Sounds tailor made for someone like yourself.

        • 0 avatar
          ttacgreg

          The Prius is an extremely tech car. Trouble is, speed is sexy, efficiency is not.
          The current generation does stop start on the roll all the time, as high as 73 mph in fact. The prime model does this up to 85 I have heard. The response of the drive train is silky and sublime, and quite responsive particularly in “power” mode, even if it get to sixty in 10 seconds.
          My ’16 Prius in traffic jammed city traffic, moves along most of the time on battery with the ICE at zero rpm, the fuel economy for the trip usually increases, even as all the conventional vehicles all around are burning fuel primarily to rotate their motors’ internal mechanicals.
          BTW, the dreaded 50 mpg CAFE mandate ? I have averaged 62mpg over 25,000 miles.

          My friend’s ’17 Crosstrek CVT has synthetic upshift behavior to imitate geared transmissions. Rather silly it seems to take a tranny capable of perfectly smooth operation and deliberately make it jerky.

          The Ford Escape at work has stop start and it is annoying. Accelerating from a stop is a two step process: motor start, then after about 10 feet of travel, the turbo kicking in abruptly. Very herky-jerky and unsophisticated in character.

    • 0 avatar
      stingray65

      I also personally don’t mind stop-start on the BMWs and Minis that I have driven with it, but if the objective is to avoid wasting fuel while stopped in traffic another solution would be to build more and better roads. Instead driving lanes are replaced by bike lanes (which take about .05% of cars off the road), and fuel taxes that are supposed to be use for roads are diverted to mass-transit, which outside of Manhattan and a couple of other big cities also does not take any significant number of cars off the road.

      • 0 avatar
        strafer

        Bet those bike lanes will see a lot more use when gas price goes over $5/gal.

        • 0 avatar
          stingray65

          Bet they don’t, and $5/gallon will need to wait for a Democratic administration in 2025 or later.

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus

            Don’t you remember selling your car and riding your bike 15 miles to work in the freezing cold in 2008/9? I sure do. That was also the summer I took my vacation on the moon. Nice hotel, the view was awesome, but the nightlife sucked.

    • 0 avatar
      tnk479

      “You have to be more engaged as a driver with stop/start as your braking release needs to be a second or so sooner to allow for the restart.”

      That’s just not the kind of engagement I am looking for, bro.

    • 0 avatar
      carve

      I have mixed feelings. My car doesn’t have it, and I wish it did in situations like drive-throughs, stops at construction zones, or lights that I know take forever. It drives me bonkers though when I hit an empty 4-way stop where I’ll only be stopped for a moment, stop-and-go lines, etc where I know I’ll only be stopped a few seconds at a time. I’d prefer a button where it defaults to off, and I can turn it on manually in situations where I’ll be stopped for a while.

  • avatar
    285exp

    They don’t care if it saves you any fuel or money in the long run, or if it’s slightly annoying, it lets them report a higher fuel economy number. Just teaching to the test.

    • 0 avatar
      HotPotato

      Not really. One of the things that annoys manufacturers about the EPA cycle is that it captures little if any of the MPG improvement from stop-start. It might be one of the few things they do because it saves fuel in the real world for the customer…as opposed to the many things they do that save fuel for the test but annoy the hell out of the customer, like automatics that make a beeline for top gear and don’t want to downshift.

  • avatar
    an innocent man

    WHY DO YOU HATE THE PLANET! AND THE CHILDREN!

    • 0 avatar
      Robbie

      I dislike start-stop systems. I eat meat, and love my air travel.

      But I also am honest enough to realize that the world would probably be a better and cleaner place if I used less fuel, drove a Prius, ate no meat, and didn’t go on so many plane trips. Polluting isn’t somehow funny, or something to pride oneself for.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        there’s nothing wrong with eating meat. We just need to stop expecting stuff like beef to be cheap. i.e. stop subsidizing cattle farming when we’re overrun by deer we could be culling.

        • 0 avatar
          Flipper35

          Our family of four will eat 3 white tail deer per year.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            I have to wonder if venison would be more popular had Bambi never been produced. Anthropomorphizing “cute” animals does nobody any good. especially when said animals are dumb as rocks and a frequent hazard to people.

            Geese too. Canada Geese are probably the only animal which truly *deserves* to be eaten.

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus

            I. Love. Deer. Meat.

            I don’t eat pork, and for some reason, people seem to assume I also won’t eat other meat like deer meat, but that isn’t the case. I just have an aversion to pork. I can’t stand the smell of it being cooked, and I’ve gotten sick to my stomach after eating something I didn’t know contained pork (often times I can go back and read the label to find out why Hormel Chili, for example, made me feel sick, and many times its because it contained pork). Its not a religious thing, its has nothing to do with sympathy for the animal (quite the opposite), I just dislike it and my body dislikes it.

            But, I’ll eat deer, chicken, beef, turkey etc with no problem. My cousin is trying to get me into hunting (deer) a bit, and I am interested in it if but for no other reason than I feel it’s a life skill that may be advantageous one day.

  • avatar
    2manycars

    Gotta love pig-ignorant statements like that. (I’ve been hearing that kind of hippie drivel for 50 years.) ICE vehicles are what percentage of those on the road, and what percentage of new vehicle sales? That’s a “death” that has been highly exaggerated, to say the least.

    I would not consider buying an electric vehicle at their present state of development, no matter what the hippies or the government thugs want. It is highly unlikely that electrics will become dominant in my lifetime. There are just too many drawbacks. (If you are young it may happen in yours but I would not hold my breath. Difficult to see, always in motion is the future.)

    Oh, and I do use a beeper as well as drive “dead” ICE vehicles. You are welcome to be tracked and surveilled by your smartphone, as well as putting up with the limitations of electric cars.

    • 0 avatar
      stingray65

      Mass adoption of EVs has been 10 years away since about 1903, and mass-adoption of hydrogen has been 10 years away since the 1970s. Of course mass-extinction from over-population, resource depletion, pollution, and climate change have been 10 years away since Malthus in the 18th century.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        @stingray: “Mass adoption of EVs has been 10 years away since about 1903,”

        I’ve only seen estimates of actual years, not “10 years away”. Those estimates are either 2040 or 2030.

        Modern EV technology was not around in 1903. Battery technology is different than even a few years ago. Motor technology is different too. The technology needed for mass adoption is here, but it’s not in mass production yet. That takes time.

        You remind me of when I was a student and was lectured about how data communications beyond 56k were beyond the laws of physics. There’s the VP that told me people would never adopt phones with touch screen dialing. How texting would never catch on too. Oh, and the lecture about how VOIP would never work. I remember as a student seeing a digital audio recording device that was the size of a refrigerator at McDonnell Douglas Electronics in St. Charles MO. Yeah, that wasn’t going anywhere. I remember how digital photography was laughed at. I think someone once said that you’d never see storage devices in personal devices reach gigabyte sizes – laws of physics again.

        Fortunately, there are people with dreams and the drive to make things happen. They more than balance out the people that constantly claim that technology has advanced as far as it can and no improvement is possible.

        EV technology is advancing steadily. As it does, more consumers will adopt it. At some point, it will dominate. Not because of greenness or low cost. Because they are far more enjoyable to drive than an ICE car. At some point, ICE drivers will become the drivers getting range anxiety as gas stations disappear. At some point, it will become impossible to drive an ICE car coast to coast. It’s coming and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it. Waste your time writing all the posts you want in a backwater auto blog. You aren’t changing a thing.

    • 0 avatar
      deanst

      I wasn’t aware that all manufacturers made public the average selling price of each of their vehicles. But let’s do the math:

      Toyota has sold over 200,000 Camrys this year while model 3 sales amount to 39,000. Assume the average price on the Camry was only $20,000. For your statement to be true, the average price on a Tesla was over $100,000.

      Of course, the F150 would blow all these vehicles out of the water, even if you wanted to cherry pick data for the month or week when Musks tent was at optimal output.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        “deanst,
        I didn’t say that in the past the Model 3 outsold Camry by revenues, I said it currently does so today. Toyota sells 7K Camrys a week in the US; Tesla sells 4K Model 3s at double the price.”

        so what? Seriously, so what? what difference is it supposed to make to any of us?

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “Oh, and I do use a beeper as well as drive “dead” ICE vehicles. You are welcome to be tracked and surveilled by your smartphone,”

      I’ve noticed that the people most worried about stuff like this are people so uninteresting they don’t actually need to worry about it.

  • avatar
    Charliej

    I see all of the people who will not buy start-stop or other new fangled things that they hate will not be buying cars anymore. New cars will have all of the things that you hate and you can’t buy a car without them. A friend of mine from thirty years ago swore that he would never buy a car with electronic ignition. If your ignition quit with points and condenser anybody could fix it but no one could fix and electronic ignition. It was a good thing that anyone could fix it as points tye ignition failed so regularly. I had a car with start-stop technology about ten years ago. It worked well and I had no problems with it. I guess that I am not afraid of technology. I probably won’t buy another car with start-stop technology but that is because I probably already own my last car. It is only fifteen years old and since I drive about three thousand miles a year it should last until long after I am gone. And the electronic ignition has never failed.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus

      “your ignition quit with points and condenser anybody could fix it but no one could fix and electronic ignition. It was a good thing that anyone could fix it as points tye ignition failed so regularly”

      THIS!! Exactly what I said to someone who remarked that it was a good thing my 1969 F-100 had a carburetor, because “you can actually work on them, UNLIKE MODERN CARS!” I couldn’t help myself, I shot back “because you don’t HAVE to work on modern cars!” in reference to their fuel system. You certainly don’t have to rebuild the somb¡Г©h every time you leave it parked for an extended period. Yes, a fuel pump may fail over the life of the vehicle, but I’ve had to replace mechanical fuel pumps before. An injector MIGHT fail over the life of the vehicle, but it’s very unlikely. It sure as hell won’t require as much work as a carburetor will during the service life of the vehicle.

      I’ve had my Taurus for ~6 years. I have done NOTHING to the fuel system, other than replace the filter for maintenance reasons. That’s it. It just freakin’ works. No stalling, no gas leaking, no extended warm-up every morning, no rebuilds if I leave it parked for a long time, no float getting stuck, none of that §#¡Г. I turn the key, put it in gear, and I’m gone.

    • 0 avatar
      fn2drive

      False equivalence. One actually improves vehicle performance and reliability. The other does neither. I have no objection to their installation. I simply object to the inability to turn it off. My car, my money, my choice. You can bike, walk, use an electric car or drive a Ferrari. None of my business or concern what you do. Just allow me to turn off this junk. And I won’t buy a car with a nondefeat. Someday the tech may be prefect and I won’t care. That’s a was off.

  • avatar
    FormerFF

    I have a plug in hybrid. At this point I find it really annoying to have the engine running while the car is stopped. It just seems pointless.

    On the other hand, the hybrid system is seamless, the start stop systems for cars with conventional drivetrains don’t operate nearly as nicely.

  • avatar
    Car Ramrod

    I have it in my M3 (6MT). I’ll turn it on if I begin my afternoon commute right at 5. It doesn’t slow me down because the car fires up as soon as I press the clutch, however if this car wasn’t a lease I would never use it. Parts are too expensive to add wear and tear just to save a few cents at the pump.

    My wife hates the technology and disables it every time she drives the car. She doesn’t want people around her to think she’s stalled.

  • avatar
    jmo2

    If it’s done well you can’t tell that it’s working. The transitions are imperceptible. The new 7 series is an example of an imperceptible start/stop system.

  • avatar

    When driving a rental with this technology, I find myself creeping at traffic lights in order to defeat the mechanism, especially if I know the light cycle and its about to turn green.

    • 0 avatar
      brn

      Depends on the vehicle. Our Ford Escape starts so quickly, that it’s always up to speed by the time you can get your foot to the gas. Whatever you drove might not be so quick.

  • avatar
    redapple

    285

    Agreed.

    Other point….
    Start stop has about a 8 year payback.
    Plus unknown future expensive repairs.
    JUST-SAY-NO!!!!

  • avatar
    IBx1

    It’s a loathsome deal-breaker. I break out laughing any time I hear a “premium” car crank over coming off a stop because it absolutely cheapens the image. As I’ve been saying: the point of diminishing returns.

    • 0 avatar
      TMA1

      At least when it stops we don’t have to hear the premium clattering of the direct-injection engines.

    • 0 avatar
      Scoutdude

      BMWs are the worst for that in my in traffic experience near them.

      • 0 avatar
        HotPotato

        Exactly. BMW happens to test its new cars in camo wrap where I live, and I was taken aback by the distinctly unpleasant engine note of what apparently is now the new X3 2.0T. It really did sound like an entry-level Euro econo-diesel. I’m certain they’re piping artificial engine noise into the cabin so it sounds like a BMW, but they might consider adding another speaker under the hood.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          The unpleasant engine noise won’t be a problem with the i4. Won’t be a problem with the Taycan etc. either. Yes, Mr. car salesman. Give me the version of this luxury car that sounds like a Farmall tractor and waits 30 seconds before moving from a red light versus the quiet smooth version that moves instantly. Right.

          https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115852_all-electric-bmw-i4-to-be-production-version-of-i-vision-dynamics-concept

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “I break out laughing any time I hear a “premium” car crank over coming off a stop because it absolutely cheapens the image.”

      I’d bet money the owners of those cars don’t care what you think.

  • avatar
    JimBot

    I share your loathing and rage for this “technology.” If there is a button on the dashboard I’ll turn it off in other people’s car and lecture them about how stupid and even dangerous it can be. Useless, reactionary stop-gap technology that has zero value.

  • avatar
    Parousia

    Once upon a time I had a 2005 Honda Accord V6 Hybrid. It was one of their first hybrid systems that basically had a large motor to run a stop-start system and add a wee bit of electric power under certain circumstances. It removed the need for using the starter motor when starting the engine and improved the economy of the V6 by about 25%. This kind of integration of a start-stop system makes sense; part of a larger whole designed to improve performance and economy. The way the systems are engineered today are a non-starter for me :)

    • 0 avatar
      HotPotato

      I loved that car. Not as thrifty as the stock four even, but more powerful and thriftier than the stock V6. The idea of a performance hybrid just didn’t register with people at the time, but it made total sense to me.

  • avatar
    markf

    I had a Highlander XLE as a rental, very nice car except for the stop/start. Terribly annoying and very abrupt. It can’t be permanently defeated which is as annoying as the system itself.

  • avatar
    arj9084

    Company Escape (1.5L) has this, and it cannot be permanently disabled with a fuse or otherwise. I will never buy another Ford after cursing at it for two years. Yes, starting an engine is the hardest mechanical wear component, and also this is ridiculously taxing on batteries when, oh, you live in Texas and it’s 110 degrees for a few months. Lubrication’s not so much an issue on itty bitty sub two liter engines, but it also saves, if anything, a few drops of gas a month. It costs a lot more (yes, even in real carbon/rainbow/unicorn environmental fairy dust) to get new batteries/components fixed, than any theoretical savings so Ford can brag about EPA mileage.

    In short, it’s ludicrous. I will never own a personal vehicle that (A) doesn’t have an IC engine, and (B) has some form of start stop that cannot be permanently disabled the second I drive it home. 80% of engine wear is due to starting. Here’s a good video from an engineer (and quality aussie humor) discussing it;

    https://youtu.be/k159M8QhCIE

    • 0 avatar
      Scoutdude

      No the start stop systems do not tax the battery. When the engine is warm it requires very little energy to restart it and it is quickly replenished.

      • 0 avatar
        White Shadow

        It’s not the restart that taxes the battery…. It’s running everything in the car with the engine off that taxes the battery.

      • 0 avatar
        Guitar man

        No the start stop systems do not tax the battery. When the engine is warm it requires very little energy to restart it and it is quickly replenished.

        Try telling that to the owners replacing the $900 battery every year.

    • 0 avatar
      White Shadow

      Yes,it can. There are many ways to permanently disable start/stop systems on ANY car?

      • 0 avatar
        Guitar man

        The battery is used to move the piston to TDC, and it runs everything else like the aircon and lights as well when the engine shuts down, which normally run off the alternator. That’s why they are so big and expensive and have to be replaced so often.

  • avatar
    gtem

    Hated it in the Impala 2.5 LT rental I just had. It really was the fly in the ointment in what was otherwise a very competent and not-unpleasant driving car. Unlike the abysmal Acadia I had with the same 2.5, in the Impala application there is much more sound insulation so even when I enivitably had to wring the 4cyl’s neck merging onto the highway, revving out to 4k+ rpm was not unpleasant feeling. But man that restart at traffic lights just didn’t feel very good. Conversely once the car was shut off at the light it cut down on the 4cyl engine vibration I could feel in the steering wheel.

    TL;DR: The Epsilon Impala would be optimal with a 3.6L V6 and no stop start.

  • avatar
    Thomas

    I was interested in the Buick Tour X wagon until I saw the start/stop could not be turned off. And the totally stupid fake exhaust tips. But mostly the start/stop thing.

  • avatar
    I_like_stuff

    I usually hate it. But I hate it with the intensity of 1000 burning suns when it’s 95 degrees outside and the a/c’s power is cut in 1/2 by the damned thing. I also hate that while in my car it can be shut off, it can’t be permanently shut off, only on individual trips.

  • avatar
    I_like_stuff

    It’s so dead it only captured 98.4% of the market in the most recent quarter. Other than a few virtue signalling progressives in Los Gatos, Palo Alto and West Hollywood, nobody is buying (or even thinking of buying) EVs. It’s a niche market for the same people who buy locally sourced, organic, non-GMO, non-soy, gluten free food.

    • 0 avatar
      I_like_stuff

      Oh god not this again, LOL. Whatever you say man. Tesla isn’t losing billions of dollars. That’s all FAKE NEWS!! It’s really the mostest profitablest car company evah!!

      Enron account is fun.

      • 0 avatar
        I_like_stuff

        So Tesla is America’s carmaker? What, like Dallas is America’s team?

        I don’t hate Tesla or Muskie. I kind of admire a guy who figured out a way to scam $5B from the federal govt and get the entire MSM to drool over every move he makes. That takes talent. Kudos to Muskie for pulling it off.

        Is Tesla viable? Sure. As I said, it is a niche market that Tesla is fulfilling. Plenty of companies exist and are viable providing goods and services to a niche market.

        As for those “American” jobs Tesla provides….

        “The electric car company used roughly 140 workers from eastern Europe, primarily Slovenia and Croatia, to build a paint shop in Fremont in northern California as part of its production of the Model 3 sedan. Workers hired by subcontractor Eisenmann, a German-based manufacturer, received hourly wages as low as $5, which is a fraction of the prevailing wages for local sheet metal workers – $52 an hour plus $42 an hour in benefits and pensions, according to a report by the Bay Area News Group.”

        Go America’s Carmaker!!

        https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/16/elon-musk-tesla-wages-apology

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        FWIW Tesla sponsors far, far more H1B workers than anyone else making cars in this country.

      • 0 avatar
        I_like_stuff

        Oh I see. You have no rebuttal to my argument so now you’re going down the “stop being so mean” route. Muskie scammed $5B from the tax payers. That’s not my opinion, that’s a fact. He’s also duped people like you into believing he’s the next Thomas Edison when in fact he’s PT Barnum.

        To put things into perspective for you, just how niche a product Tesla is, they sell 40K cars a quarter. GM sells 2.5M cars a quarter. Tesla’s production is a GM rounding error. Hell, Porsche sells more cars worldwide than Tesla. But hey….Musk!! Stuff!!

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      It’s the tallest building in Abilene I tell ya!!

      Not sure why anyone should expect anything less from beancounter. It’s possible he’s been huffing glue inside the Tesla tent.

  • avatar
    roverv8i

    It would be nice to see some comments from people that actually own a car with the technology. So far I believe there have only been one or two. Discussing the merits or evils of the technology is perfectly fine but outright condemnation by ones that have no real experience with it is not helpful. A sort amount of time behind the wheel of one will be disconcerting for many but that is to be expected by anyone that is aware of what is going on in there car and are use to certain things. I will comment from the perspective of a 2016 A6. Once I got use to it I am not normally bothered by it. Yes I certainly question the long term effect of its reliability. My commute is mostly highway with about 4 miles of surface streets. I do see an increase in fuel mileage in this scenario as it seems to help maintain the highway mileage. In true in town driving I don’t think it helps so much. If you are at a light you can get the car to start by letting up on the brake. You do not have to fully let off. I’m sure this is different in other systems. If I’m in a situation that I feel I will need instant response I just flick back on the shifter to put it in sport mode which starts the engine and more to the point makes the transmission much more responsive. My real complaint with the car is this, the attempts to save fuel in transmission’s normal mode making it slow to get going when it’s in to high of a gear at creeping speeds. Using sport mode is fine on the open road but is bothersome when driving through a 25 MPH neighborhood as it makes the car very nervous unless you manually upshift it.

    • 0 avatar
      markf

      I spent 3 weeks in a rental with it and that’s enough for me to decide I would never purchase a vehicle with this technology. Even with a hardcore, traffic infused commute I can’t imagine this saves any significant amount of gas…….

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      Yes I have real experience, on an F-150 and a new Malibu, it’s a horrible, wretched experience that makes one want to drive the vehicle off a steep cliff. I didn’t own either but put thousands of miles on both. I’m not masochistic enough to waste my own money on it.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Who’s life is being taken? Start/Stop is horrible, maybe we need to double the number of guns and use these cars as target practice.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          As both a Mechanical and Petroleum engineer, I’m not very worried about AI taking my job. Though as far as mental health is concerned, reopening insane asylums is possible the best course of action as we have many people that simply cannot function in society no matter how drugged they are.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          No it’s kinda like the engineer that extracts the material to make all that plastic in the Tesla, the tires the Tesla rolls on, sections of the brake lines, and fuels the tractor trailer that moves the Tesla around when it leaves the factory or can’t find a charge point. Just to name a few.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          Hummer, Nicely stated. The ignorance of some in the Tesla cult astounds. They believe in science regarding global warming, but don’t when it comes to understanding the nature of the product of their cult.

          Very strange.

        • 0 avatar
          JohnTaurus

          FACTS! Like Tesla put Ford out of business single handedly, and it had nothing to do with the popularity of utilities and trucks while that of cars declined. Nope. All Tesla.

          FACTS! Like Tesla HAS NO ISSUES except it has issues but its okay because others have issues.

          FACTS! Like Tesla employs so many people and is great for the economy unlike other automakers, except their employment numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to the number of employees in the U.S. that work for GM, Ford, FCA or any of the transplants. Not even combined, I mean individually.

          Drop some more cherry-picked FACTS that, when explained, are nothing but typical Tesla hyperbole.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          Beancounter,

          If you’ve got to twist your data points into a pretzel to make it a fact, I have bad news for you. It’s not really a fact. You’re playing word games.

    • 0 avatar
      geozinger

      I’m of two minds on this. Our 2016 Malibu has a similar start/stop system, let off the brake slightly and the engine comes to life. This helps with traffic and such, but for short trips, I’d rather have a way to disable it. Like others, I’ve driven far too many beaters and 1970’s cars with their horrible pollution controls that made cars stall all of the time. Even though I’ve gotten used to the sensation more or less, I occasionally think the car has puked and I’m stuck in traffic.

      OTOH, there are situations where I don’t mind that the engine is stopped and for what little amount of fuel being saved, it is *some* fuel being saved. It seems counterproductive to have to leave the car in “sport” mode to avoid the shut down. I’m guessing that GM probably did this to comply with some CAFE/EPA regs, but I’m sure for the uninitiated, it’s a huge turn off.

      I understand there are a couple of ways to defeat the auto start on these cars. I may have to look into this in the near future.

  • avatar
    thegamper

    Not a fan. I think I could get used to it, but two cars being basically equal I would buy the one without it. There seems like an easy solution, make it defeatable like traction control or something. That way it’s there if you want it, off if you don’t.

  • avatar
    threeer

    Being the hottest part of the summer down here in ‘Bama, I find that I just slip my foot off of the brake slightly to reengage on our ’17 Cruze (oh, wait… I meant the ’17 Malibu I have as a loaner as my Cruze has been parked at the dealer’s shop for five weeks straight of my first 8 weeks of ownership!). It’s more of an annoyance than a benefit, and I’d be just as happy without it.

    • 0 avatar
      dwford

      Fun how the Cruze lurches forward when you lighten up on the brake to get the engine to restart, isn’t it? I like how the Cruze turns the fans speed down when the engine shuts off, so you immediately start to bake with no a/c at every stoplight.

      Luckily a complete stranger told me a little trick for disabling the Cruze’s start/stop: put the transmission in Low then tap the + until the indicator reads L6. Then the car drives like normal and doesn’t shut off. It’s still a pain to have to do it every time you put the car in gear, but that’s the best that can be done about it.

  • avatar
    arj9084

    Well if you drive an A6 and think the tech helps that’s wonderful, but it also makes me think you don’t have any statistical reason to think this. You didn’t buy an A6 to get great mileage (nor to worry about long term maintenance). Commuting in 4 miles of surface streets shouldn’t show any real benefits to stop start in gas costs.

    Having to put the car in sport mode to make it responsive is asinine, and is also what Ford does, but as you indicate it also makes it louder/needlessly downshifted most of the time. That’s what I do too, but it will increase wear to the engine, turbo, and transmission, just to avoid the hassle of restarting the car a dozen times a day.

    Folks should research it a bit before becoming emotionally attached to a car purchase decision, is my position; despite the abundance of poor automotive journalism/propaganda/fake news, I’ve found no dispassionate sources that actually endorse it. Here’s a guy who approached it neutrally on an Audi A6 for instance;

    https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/motor-mouth-heres-my-beef-with-engine-start-stop-systems

  • avatar
    R Henry

    I consider the feature annoying and pointless. Further, as a mechanic with LOTS of experience replacing ring gears and starters, I KNOW the repair costs associated with this silly technology will far outweigh any miniscule fuel savings benefit.

    I have no problem with the feature being included on new cars, as long as it can be deavtivated until intentionally reactivated.

    • 0 avatar
      Mr. Ernie

      After reading a whole bunch of opinions, seems to me that not many in the B&B know how modern start/stop systems work.

      Yes, starting an engine when cold is when most of the wear occurs, but once warm/hot, it’s fine. Oil has coated all of the moving parts.

      Modern stop/start engines don’t use their starters to restart their engines during a drive cycle. It squirts fuel into the cylinder that’s at/near the power stroke then fires the spark plug. This ‘starts’ the engine. This is why it starts almost immediately and also why you don’t hear the the starter. If it used the starter, you’d soon have a dead battery and a burnt out starter.

      • 0 avatar
        White Shadow

        Incorrect. What you’re talking about is an idea that Mazda came up with. I don’t think they implemented it in mass market cars though…not yet anyway. Every vehicle I’ve driven with S/S systems use the starter (supposedly a heavy duty unit) to restart the engine. Most also have a secondary battery too.

        • 0 avatar
          Mr. Ernie

          Wrong. F150 w/2.7, Escape w/1.6, Fusion, Edge all have this tech. BTW, I have owned/ driven these. No extra batteries. No heavy duty starters. No starter noises. Just instant start as soon as you slightly lift off the brakes.

          Please do some research. Google is your friend.

          • 0 avatar
            White Shadow

            For every car you can name, I can name two that utilize heavy duty starters and auxiliary batteries. My new Jeep is one of them.

          • 0 avatar
            White Shadow

            Read and learn. You are incorrect.

            https://www.carprousa.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-stop-start-systems

      • 0 avatar
        R Henry

        Nope, you have been misinformed.

        • 0 avatar
          Guitar man

          Nope, the Mazda system still uses the starter (and the enormous and expensive battery) to move the engine to the piston no. 1 to TDC.

          They need replacing very often.

  • avatar
    Matt Foley

    Stop-start is a non-starter for me. Trading long-term reliability for a small gain in efficiency or emissions is ridiculous. Even Honda is struggling to make reliable cars that jump through today’s eco-hoops:
    https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/08/piston-slap-earth-dreams-of-carbon-buildup/

    Last winter, my wife wanted a new crossover (doesn’t everybody’s?). We bought her a 3-year-old Venza with the 1AR-FE 2.7 4-cyl and 6-sp automatic, fresh off lease, instead.

    In appliance cars, reliability is king. And this Venza ought to be reliable as a sundial:

    No stop-start
    No direct injection
    No turbo
    No CVT
    No cylinder deactivation

    Laugh at my choice of a yester-tech, goofy-looking Camry wagon, but I am expecting at least 200K trouble-free miles out of this thing.

    • 0 avatar
      arj9084

      I respect the heck out of that analysis.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      I’m sure there were people telling Kettering not to bother with that new-fangled electric starter he was working on, because it would just cause more problems. Hand cranks work every time, you know.

      I hope I never get to the age where I’m terrified of everything new or different.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Really nothing new about cylinder deactivation, turbos or CVTs, it’s just experience says one should be weary of them. Specifically if one is also bearing the cost of repairs.

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          “Specifically if one is also bearing the cost of repairs.”

          Exactly. I’d rather get made fun of on the internet by people like JimZ than be stuck in the real world holding the bag on a 4-figure repair because I embraced the newest or most advanced stuff before I trusted it.

          If that means I miss out for awhile and I’m not one of the first people on the road with an electric starter or fuel injection or ABS or whatever, then big deal I don’t care.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “Exactly. I’d rather get made fun of on the internet by people like JimZ than be stuck in the real world holding the bag on a 4-figure repair because I embraced the newest or most advanced stuff before I trusted it.”

            It’s one thing to distrust something if you know how it works and have the knowledge to see actual flaws. it’s quite another thing to distrust something primarily because you don’t understand it.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “if you know how it works and have the knowledge to see actual flaws”

            I’m not sure how the common consumer would gain that knowledge. All we generally get is a glowing press release, glowing “First Drive” reviews, and then the request from the manufacturer to part with many thousands of dollars. For example, how can I know that the head bolts are sufficient on GM’s new turbo V8?

            Waiting for reliability data results is the best option most of us have.

      • 0 avatar
        Matt Foley

        JimZ, your logical fallacy is “Strawman” – misrepresenting someone’s argument to make it easier to attack.

        I’m not attacking electric starters, ABS, VVT, MPFI, keyless entry, or any other proven technologies that the new/old Venza has.

        I’m attacking stop-start and the other technologies that have yet to prove themselves as reliable as the technologies they are replacing.

        You go on and be my guinea-pig. Buy a 1.5 turbo Accord with a CVT or a new Silverado with a 3.0 turbo four that shuts down two cylinders when cruising. If you get 200K trouble-free miles out of those drivetrains, maybe I’ll pony up for that tech next time.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          LOL. “You go spend $40,000 just to win an internet argument.”

          Yeah, chief, I’ll get right on that.

        • 0 avatar
          gtem

          I’d more so equate start stop with the motorized seat belts of the early 90s. Trying to be helpful, but it’s just frustrating tech without a really clear win. These start stop systems really don’t save that much fuel in a typical drive cycle for most drivers IMO.

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus

            Those belts were compliance items, only intended to be helpful to the manufacturers in complying with “passive restraint” laws until airbags became less expensive and/or were engineered into the vehicle’s design from the start.

            If you notice, some cars like the Ford Tempo omitted the motorized belts when the optional airbag was included (or when it became standard, as in the Honda Accord), or if they were sold in a country that didn’t require passive restraints (Canadian market Tempos had manual belts, and I’m assuming those sold in Mexico and other Latin American countries did too).

            The odd one was the Escort, which kept the motorized belts even after dual airbags became standard equipment, until the next generation was launched for the 1997 model year.

          • 0 avatar
            gtem

            “…were compliance items, only intended to be helpful to the manufacturers in complying… ”

            And that is exactly how I see these stop start systems. They are optimized to help with EPA tests, but have little appreciable effect on real world fuel economy, and only serve to frustrate many owners.

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus

            No argument here. The only difference is that the passive belts were a stop-gap measure.

            I don’t think they’re as bad as is generally stated by the majority of the B&B, especially later versions with smoother transitions. But the good they do is minimal at best, IMO.

    • 0 avatar
      Fordson

      4,000 lbs, 182 lb/ft of torque. Driving it for 200,000 miles sounds like something the Constitution is supposed to protect us against.

      • 0 avatar
        Matt Foley

        3750 lbs, not 4000, but you’re right – it’s a slug off the line. From about 15 mph on up, Toyota has done a good job of mapping downshifts so the little 1AR-FE stays on the cam. It’s adequate for daily commuting and the annual schlep to the beach.

  • avatar
    rpol35

    I won’t own or even consider renting a car such equipped.

  • avatar
    I_like_stuff

    I have it. I hate it. I disable it every time I get in the car. I don’t even really think about it anymore, it’s become routine, like putting on my seat belt.

  • avatar
    gearhead77

    I. Loathe. It. My experience has been solely in GM rentals and it’s absolutely obnoxious. I will avoid any vehicle that has this crap unless it can be turned off.

    I want to be able to defeat things like this in the car. Permanently. We’ve got the ability to change the interior setting to 400 different colors in some cars, why can’t I have a menu for “stuff I don’t want on. Ever”. I’ll sign a waiver or whatever that my fuel economy may suffer, yadda yadda.

    Our Sienna has the 8 speed and in its normal mode, “Eco”, it’s really busy. And you really have to prod the pedal to make it move (also due to high power peaks on HP and torque). It does not feel like 296hp, at all, until you plant it. Around town, especially where I am with hills, it’s fairly obnoxious.

    But if you scroll through the menu to the “Power” setting, the button that used to be on the shift lever of all Toyotas with an automatic, it becomes a much better car. But you have to select “Power” every time you turn the car on. Shifting it manually is no fun, but at least Toyota gives you the option.

    I won’t buy stop start. Unless I can defeat it permanently without pulling fuses or some other tacky crap.

    • 0 avatar
      Kyree S. Williams

      I didn’t realize they went to an 8-speed on the Sienna.

      I’d buy one with AWD, just because.

      • 0 avatar
        gearhead77

        My wife does not like our Sienna SE, it’s the first car in 20 years of knowing her and 15 years of marriage that she has voiced her hatred of, over various brands. I’m no fan either, except of the styling, which is a handsome break from the other Toyoboxes in the series. No fan of the Chrysler, it’ll be back to the Odyssey in 18 months.

        That said, when you get the urge to run it hard, it’s a great powertrain. Of course, SE doesn’t mean you get any better brakes, so the rotors pay a heavy price for a heavy foot in a large heavy vehicle.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    It’s annoying. I think they added it to the Grand Cherokee in 2016; fortunately, mine is just a year older than that. (Although I do have to put up with the stupid monostatic gear selector). I do get to sample a Pentastar with start-stop in my best friend’s 2018 Wrangler JL Sahara. It’s not great.

    I couldn’t outright turn the stop-start off in my 2016 Cruze, but I could effectively prevent it from activating when it was hot out by taking the A/C out of “Eco” mode. But you can’t turn off stop-start in any of the GM cars. One engineer was quoted as saying something like, “If your customers want to turn off your stop-start system, you’re doing it wrong.”

    I disagree. Because they still got it wrong.

    • 0 avatar
      White Shadow

      Easy to defeat on my 2017 Grand Cherokee. Simply disconnect the voltage sensing wire connector on the auxiliary battery located under the passenger seat. Takes 10 seconds and permanently disables S/S with no negative effects. The voltage sensing wire only exists on the secondary battery to enable or disable the S/S system in the first place.

      Or, for about a hundred bucks, you can buy a module that makes the button remember how you last left it instead of having to turn it off every time you start the engine. Either option solves the problem.

  • avatar
    JimZ

    it doesn’t bother me unless it’s a shuddering mess (e.g. early BMW implementations.)

    “I am also fairly confident that repeatedly cycling your engine in stop-and-go traffic isn’t great for the crankshaft and a host of other components, ”

    Er, I’m pretty sure normal operation is far more stressful on the engine internals. Here’s what people don’t get- in an auto stop/start event, the car stays on and the PCM remains awake, and “tracks” the engine cam/crank position sensors to know approximately where the engine comes to rest. that way, when you want to get going again, it only needs to activate the starter for just long enough for the next available cylinder to fire. further, the lubricating oil film has not had nearly enough time to leave critical interfaces. lastly, the transmission has an accumulator to maintain line pressure while the engine is not running, so it doesn’t disengage.

    all the nattering about how starting an engine causes the most wear is only really applicable to a *cold* start, after all of the oil has drained back into the sump. and because the PCM is waking from a “cold” state, it doesn’t know where the engine is in its rotation. so the starter has to work for much longer until the PCM picks up both cam and crank sensors and determines their relative position before enabling fuel and spark.

  • avatar
    SixspeedSi

    Generally, I don’t like the technology. Our 18 Cherokee has it and it’s way too noticeable. Shakes the whole car when it starts up. However, I don’t mind it being there since it is defeatable, just wish it remembered when you hit the button.

    I did drive a JL Wrangler Stick with it and it was improved, but I would still turn it off. The GM cars are the worst offenders as they cannot be turned off and still aren’t the smoothest. That’s rediculous.

  • avatar
    deanst

    Bean counter:

    The fact – and it is fact – that Tesla has profitable gross margins on its vehicles and that it is worth more than any other American carmaker is what matters.

    Ask yourself: what will be your excuse for attacking America’s carmaker when Tesla reports profits in Q3? Why so much hate for the company that is providing good jobs to 30,000 Americans while GM and Ford continue their constant decline?

    From musk himself:

    Musk also said that Tesla should not be compared to major US carmakers and that its market capitalization, now more than $50bn, is unwarranted. “I do believe this market cap is higher than we have any right to deserve,” he said.

    Providing fewer jobs:

    Tesla Inc. is cutting about 9% of its workers — the biggest layoff in its 15-year history — as it burns through cash in an effort to meet production goals for its crucial Model 3 sedan.

    Good jobs?

    Ambulances have been called more than 100 times since 2014 for workers experiencing fainting spells, dizziness, seizures, abnormal breathing and chest pains, according to incident reports obtained by the Guardian. Hundreds more were called for injuries and other medical issues.

  • avatar
    JimC2

    Wow, this really poked a hornets’ nest!

    I think of it as the other way around. Idling is irritating and wasteful. Get a dozen cars waiting at a traffic light or a hundred of them stuck in traffic, all those engines are doing is throwing out waste heat all over the place. What’s the point of that? On a summer day, the extra heat at ground level makes their own air conditioners have to work a little harder. All that heat and exhaust adds up, even clean exhaust from modern cars, for everyone else not sitting inside their metal boxes but using their lungs and heart to get around- you know, the pedestrians (the healthy people), the cyclists (who reduce traffic congestion *if* they follow traffic laws, ten bikes take up less space than ten cars or SUVs)

    Warm starting an internal combustion engine doesn’t hurt it. The oil is already on the moving parts and it stays there for several minutes.

    True, very true that hybrid implementations do a better job with auto start than a conventional 12 volt Bendix-style starter motor.

    • 0 avatar
      JimC2

      Also true about the lousy job some of the brands have done with integrating air conditioning on their start-stop cars. I’d wager some of them deliberately did that out of spite for regulations, not that any carmaker has a history of half-a, uh, half-baking it with some mandatory new system or widget they didn’t want to do. Or they half-bake it just because (case in point- Honda used a smaller belt-driven a/c main compressor *plus* a miniature electric-driven a/c compressor, just for sustainment… why not dispense with the belts and go with all-electric a/c, like what @Bimmer mentioned in his Lincoln??).

      @R Henry mentioned ring gear wear. Yep, I wonder if we’re gonna see this be a problem as some of these cars get past 100,000 city miles. There should already be thousands of taxicabs already there and I wonder what the fleet operators are seeing. But this one comes down to implementation. The old pinion and ring gear isn’t the only way to build a starter, it’s just the most common way.

      @gasser- you mentioned the split second delay. Perhaps, but if someone is cutting it so close crossing oncoming traffic that it makes the difference between a collision and a miss, I have a Darwinian opinion here and besides- just think of the jobs for the local body shops! Just kidding… sort of. But seriously, this comes down to implementation but it’s also something you just get used to as a driver. If it’s a rental or a loaner, nobody with any common sense should be trying to squeeze through every little gap in traffic, and trying to do that puts the blame solely on the driver, not the manufacturer. Last thought- there’s the same difference between driving my two cars- one is quick and responsive making left turns, the other is pokey and underpowered. I subconsciously adjust my driving technique before I even get to the stop sign on the corner of my street.

      So, yeah, I love the concept but I hate the way a lot of brands have implemented it.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        “why not dispense with the belts and go with all-electric a/c, like what @Bimmer mentioned in his Lincoln??).”

        because his is a hybrid and the A/C compressor is powered by the traction (HV) battery. an electric compressor would be a heck of a load on a 12 volt system.

        • 0 avatar
          JimC2

          @JimZ, I was specifically referring to an unnecessarily complicated implementation that Honda did in one of their hybrids.

          True, a 12V electric a/c powerful enough for a car would mean a pretty big motor to drive that compressor. This kinda makes an argument for higher voltage systems we keep hearing about. 6V was enough a long time ago, 12V has done the job for a pretty long time, is it time for the next thing? (Mostly a rhetorical question.)

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            various industry wonks have been talking about moving to 42/48 volt systems for, oh, about 20 years now. unfortunately, part of the reason it hasn’t happened yet is that it has safety implications for interior electrical distribution:

            1) 12 volts is (in most cases) not near enough to shock a person. 42 VDC is. So interior circuits would need GFCI protection in addition to a simple fuse/short circuit breaker.

            2) 12 volts is not enough to strike and maintain an electrical arc; two wires contacting each other will immediately blow the circuit fuse(s.) 42+ volts can maintain an arc w/o exceeding the fuse’s rating, increasing risk of a fire

  • avatar
    stevejac

    Sheesh– this really is lots of talk about nothing. I’ve now had 2 different 3 series with auto start/stop. I don’t even notice it. I live in an area with lots of 100+ days in the summer and when it’s hot out the stop cycles are shorter or non-existent. I really only notice it when a passenger asks about it.

    This is the sort of thing reviews and occasional renters notice. When you own a car with this it becomes no big deal.

    When my current lease ends I’d not even consider the presence or absence of auto start/stop in my decision for my next ride.

    • 0 avatar
      Hank

      Agreed. I’ve got an F150 with it, and most of this just sounds like old men whining than someone change the location of the milk in the fridge(!?!?). Change. People love it until it happens. A few more years and this is going to sound like an argument over the best buggy whip.

  • avatar
    Bimmer

    I love it in my ’11 Lincoln MKZephyr Hybrid! I get better mileage if I’m stuck in crawling traffic. A/C compressor is electrically driven, so it’s still works if I’ve got enough juice in the hybrid batteries. The only time that engine runs during stop is if hybrid batteries need to be charged or during colder time of the year to warm up emission components.

  • avatar
    gasser

    I consider this system dangerous. It has been conceded above that the start-stop system adds a fraction of a second to the time of getting in motion. This will prove disastrous as someone turns left across 3 lanes of oncoming traffic, when they have spent years gauging their time in the intersection by a regular system.

  • avatar
    dwford

    I have no problem with start/stop -in hybrids. With hybrids the car gets rolling form a stop with battery power, and the ICE gets feathered in. Very unobtrusive. Not so with regular cars. The engine shudders as it shuts off, shudders as it restarts, you constantly get caught in those situations where you stop just enough to shut of the motor, but its just for a split second and then the car lurches all confused and you go right after you stopped.

    Hopefully the upcoming mild hybrids with bigger batteries will eliminate these issues

  • avatar
    deanst

    When did TTAC adopt start/stop technology? Every time I want to comment I have to login, again.

    I find stop/start annoying just to be next to at a stop light. It’s usually some German luxury vehicle shuddering to life, and I can’t imagine paying $60,000 to listen to that 50 times a day.

    It would be nice to have the feature invoked manually – in traffic jams or at a drive thru. That’s about it.

  • avatar
    ptschett

    I haven’t experienced it but I don’t know why I would hate it if it was done right. For a long time I’ve been the guy who shuts off his engine during long waits at an ATM / drive-thru / etc. if it’s up to temperature and the weather isn’t extremely cold or hot.

    It’s not clear to me why there would be worries about the conventional starter & ring gear when a lot of systems have a belt starter/generator for start/stop and only use the regular starter for cold starts.

  • avatar
    Zane Wylder

    When I look at newer cars, one of the first things I search for is how to remove the wiring or if there’s another way

    Should be an option, like ACC is or cargo mats

  • avatar
    srh

    So many hyperbolic statements in the above comments. “I’ll never rent a car with start/stop!”

    Sorry but such hatred is unwarranted, especially in a rental car. There are echoes here of the complaints about automatic transmissions, CVTs, turbos, cylinder de-activation, hybrids, EVs, seatbelts, airbags, run-flats. Some people “rented a car one time, and it annoyed them”.

    I’ve got two cars with start/stop; an F-150 and a BMW 428. In both of these cars it works seamlessly enough that I seldom even notice it. If I /do/ notice it, it’s easy to defeat with slightly less pressure on the brake pedal at a stoplight (I do this, for example, on hot days to prevent the AC from cutting out).

    Maybe some of the earlier systems sucked; I don’t know. But these days it’s just not that big of a problem. I don’t know that I’d actively seek out a car that has it, but it certainly shouldn’t turn anyone off of a car that is otherwise perfect for them.

    • 0 avatar
      lot9

      Interesting comment.

      On the vehicles, one of two batteries? And regular batteries?.. Any problems with batteries since they are running the air when the engine is off.

      Alternator or starter problems?

      Any problems when going you steep grades where you have to stop and vehicles start to roll back before starting?.
      Do not want to hit the vehicle that is behind you and right on your bumper.

      Enjoy your vehicles.

  • avatar
    clay433

    The first thing I do after starting my car is turning Stop/Start off

  • avatar
    lot9

    Morning everyone at TTAC:

    Very interested in this subject….(too bad some of the commenters got off subject and had to wade the all those unrelated subjects) Gee! Does anyone monitor this site?

    I am in the market for a new vehicle.. most likely in 30 days or so. Been looking at the Start / Stop Junk that has been added to new vehicles.

    GM is a big offender… which I wanted to buy one of their autos, but WILL NEVER AS LONG AS THEY HAVE Start/Stop junk.

    Too bad they do not let you turn them off.

    Some the car makers let you turn them off. Not sure which makers they all are.

    I am looking at Toyota, currently. They have the push button start, which I am not happy about but no Start/Stop.

    Any recommendations? I am in market for a van. Need the best ground clearance as possible. But not high as some SUVs.

    Anyone got a new ’18 sienna premium van or any 18 van yet? Happy with it??

    Thanks.

    • 0 avatar
      gtem

      dang a minivan with ground clearance, that’s a tough one lot9.

      A few thoughts:
      If you can sacrifice some interior space, I think a GM Lambda with the chin spoiler yanked off is your best bet at a modicum of clearance while being as new as possible and leaving the vehicle stock.

      If you’re willing to look at an older vehicle, a 2007-2010 Toyota Sienna even in FWD guise has something like 6.5 inches of clearance, on par with a current CRV or Rav4. Get the AWD 2nd gen Sienna and that goes up to 7.4 inches, downright respectable and ready to tackle some basic two-track (I can confirm from personal experience).

      Going to a new/almost new van but having a willingness to dispense with a warranty potentially, I’d point you to universal spring spacers. It’s a common modification in places like Siberia and Africa and Afghanistan for a cheap and easy suspension lift on just about anything, from beat up old Corollas to Lada Samaras to vans.

  • avatar
    cimarron typeR

    We have it on our 17 Disco Sport(able to be disabled with one touch on a dedicated dash button). I have a pretty well defined commute and I experimented with eco w/ stop start on, eco mode with s/s off and with 1 tank each there was .5mpg difference. Part of this is minimal stop lights, 80% highway. I’m sure if you lived in Metro DC,NYC etc it’s more of a savings.
    I disable , I figure the heavy duty starter will last longer for me or the next guy with minimal use.
    I do hit the button if I know a stop light cycle is long, or at a drive thru, mainly for emissions though.
    I’ve rented a 2.5 Impala and I felt the S/S was fairly smooth, equal to the land rover. If it’s over 90 degrees outside and a/c is on , the stop start won’t turn activate, the Brits value comfort over economy.

  • avatar
    debo602

    I will not purchase a car that has start / stop technology.

  • avatar
    TW5

    As the article highlights, it’s all about the car. Start-stop isn’t bad in strong hybrids because most of them have all electric mode, and cycling the ICE back on is less abrupt and horrible than in conventional ICEs. Regrading conventional ICE powertrains, I’ve yet to drive a start-stop vehicle that doesn’t suck. The worst ever was probably the 2012 BMW 528 I rode in one time. Literally, the worst. Can’t believe BMW would sell something so bad.

    Anyway, undefeatable start-stop is a moral abomination.

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    I don’t mind this tech…. in a hybrid.

  • avatar
    Scoutdude

    Yeah I hate it in non-Hybrid vehicles that are next to me at a stop light. But in my Hybrids I love it and wouldn’t have it any other way.

    • 0 avatar
      brandloyalty

      Yes, stop/start in non-hybrids seems like a bit of an abomination. But that’s what you get when you put lipstick on a pig.

      People riding in my Escape Hybrid don’t even notice the engine stop/start. It doesn’t even crank. The engine just starts running, using the hybrid battery and an electric motor. No starter to fail.

  • avatar
    syncro87

    Stop start is a huge purchase disincentive for me.

    I’d consider purchasing a vehicle so equipped if there was an OFF button that did not have to be pressed every time I drove. OFF should mean OFF until turned back on manually. If the default is on with every ignition cycle, forget it.

  • avatar
    tonyola

    I’m a little too paranoid for a stop/start system in a car. Maybe it’s because I’ve owned too many cars in the past where a restart (even when warm) was not a 100% sure thing.

  • avatar
    7402

    I don’t hate it at all.

    My first experience was a diesel/manual SEAT rental in Spain several years ago. It was strange for about 5 minutes, then I got over it. We now have a BMW with start stop and it doesn’t bother me in the least. One does learn to game it by easing off the brake pedal slightly ahead of the signal change, or just not pressing too hard (though still hard enough to stop and hold the car) if you know you’ll only be stopped for a second.

    Our BMW is a 2014 and we had a 2019 loaner last time it was in for service; I will say that the start/stop in the newer one is noticeably more refined.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    Until mild hybrids arrive – the 48v kind – it seems like a better implementation of stop/start would be to use cylinder deactivation instead. Since CD is used in so many cars, including it to all wouldn’t be difficult.

    Instead of just dying at a stop, the car would revert to 1/2 the cylinders it normally uses when stopped to power HVAC, steering and brakes.

    For cars already equipped with both cylinder deactivation and stop/start, I’d be curious to know what the car does if the AC is running and you come to a stop. Does the car shut off and take the AC with it? Does it run on 1/2 the cylinders?

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “Instead of just dying at a stop, the car would revert to 1/2 the cylinders it normally uses when stopped to power HVAC, steering and brakes.”

      I can just imagine the uproar once people’s cars start idling as smoothly as if it had a Buick odd-fire V6.

      • 0 avatar
        JimC2

        “I can just imagine the uproar once people’s cars start idling as smoothly as if it had a Buick odd-fire V6.”

        Yeah, there would be a few very vocal complainers. I think what’s funny is how many people wouldn’t even notice though (many of them because they’re the kind of drivers who turn the radio up loud over the noise of ground-down brakes, hehe).

        By the way, an inline four idles smoothly on half its cylinders if they’re the right pair (1-4 or 2-3). Not sure about V8s and the different kinds of V6s out there though. Never mind inline threes and fives that would idle like a Harley Davidson if you tried shutting down some of the cylinders.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        I rented a newer Silverado last year to haul some furniture equipped with cylinder deactivation. Imperceptible change from V8 to V4, although i was moving when the transition occurred. I don’t recall if the green V4 stayed lit while stopped.

        • 0 avatar
          threeer

          How does a couch work with cylinder deactivation??? LOL…

        • 0 avatar
          ptschett

          I have FCA’s version of that Silverado’s system in my Challenger and my Ram. I can sometimes hear when the mode switches from the exhaust note changing in the car, but it’s not objectionable, just a little bit different-sounding. In the pickup I only notice the mode switch because I went in the screen settings and turned on the indicator.

  • avatar
    bking12762

    Does start/stop prematurely wear the starter?

  • avatar
    turf3

    I drive my cars till they are worn out. No way this can provide reliable restarts dozens of times a day when your car has 300,000 miles on it. If you start the car twice a day, 15 seconds of cranking before it starts is absolutely no issue. If you have to restart the car at every traffic light it will rapidly become impossible to live with.

  • avatar
    Goatshadow

    Would never buy a vehicle with stop/start, and the apologists for it have no soul.

  • avatar
    Conslaw

    I don’t have much experience with start stop systems other than it was in one car I rented. I can say that the conventional hybrid system in my Ford C-Max Hybrid is the best drive train I’ve ever had in a car that I’ve owned. Now that cars like the Honda Accord Hybrid and Toyota Camry Hybrid manage full hybrid capability with no cost in trunk space, hybrids are an even better choice than before. The added cost and complexity are balanced by fuel savings and lack of wear and tear on the brakes and ICE. For some, full electric will be the way to go, for others PEVS like the Clarity, Volt and Pacifica Hybrid, for most others regular hybrid will be the way to go.

  • avatar
    KevinB

    I have a feeling the little turbocharged 1.4 liter in my Cruze with auto stop won’t last 300,000 miles.

    • 0 avatar
      threeer

      My little 1.4 Cruze has spent the last 5 weeks (of 8 weeks total ownership) at the dealer’s repair bay, so I’d say I agree with you, Kevin! I’m fairly certain that none of this little POS will make it to 300,000 miles.

  • avatar
    kamiller42

    1. As I understand Start/Stop does not equate into MPG ratings. So this is strictly a “for the benefit of the consumer” feature.

    2. Tip: For 2018 F150 owners (may work for other years), you can disable start/stop by using Sport mode. Use MyKey to assign Sport mode as your default mode, and you’re set.

    I don’t mind the start/stop. My only concern is wear, but the engineers claim they have that figured. I know this has been a thing in Europe for a while, so maybe that was their test bed.

  • avatar
    CobraJet

    My 2017 Lacrosse is equipped with stop-start. There is no way to turn it off. It doesn’t really bother me operationally. In hot weather, it doesn’t stop at every red light because of cabin temp, etc. I have 14,000 miles and so far no problems. I do worry about battery life and starter motor life.
    The ignorant salesman claimed there were two batteries in the car. When I had it in for the first oil change, the service writer said the same thing. I knew the main battery is in the trunk but could not spot where the second battery might be. At the second oil change the dealer mechanic said nope, only one battery.

    • 0 avatar
      Sub-600

      My Charger has two batteries, the main one in the trunk and a small one in the engine bay.

      • 0 avatar
        CobraJet

        That’s what my salesman and service writer kept saying. They were pointing to a black plastic box under the hood with power running to it. Finally I had the mechanic open it up and it was full of fuses and relays. No battery.

        • 0 avatar
          JimC2

          @CobraJet- you missed a golden opportunity. You could have confidently told the salesman the little box under the hood was the Flux Capacitor and he just might have bought off on that answer… and told the next few customers.

          I really worry about the service writer- somebody in his line of work who can’t tell the difference between a battery and a junction box? Oh boy…

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus

            I took my 1991 Ford Tempo GLS to Walmart for a fuel injection service (I do not regularly take my vehicle to Walmart for anything other than to buy the Motorcraft oil I use lol), and he wanted to look under the hood. I was mainly curious as to how they did it.

            He said something about how it is too old, then pointed to the *brake booster* and said “see, we don’t have a connector to fit that”. I just grabbed the hood prop and put it down and closed the hood, fighting the urge to bust out laughing.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    I’m currently renting a ’17 Cruze with this “feature” and it’s beyond annoying.

    (Nice car, though.)

    The thing gets +/- 35 mpg to begin with – what’s the point?

  • avatar
    JimC2

    Can we get to 300 comments on here by nightfall? (Currently in the low 170s.) Moar angry answuhrrrrrs!!

  • avatar
    Cactuar

    Scotty Kilmer said start/stop was a dumb idea, so that pretty much settles it.

  • avatar
    NeilM

    I’ve rented a number of cars in Europe with stop/start (mostly MT). I find it somewhat annoying, although not a deal breaker.

    To say that you’d never buy a car with start/stop seems over the top. There’s always something you can do about it, either by modifying your driving habits so that it doesn’t happen, or using the defeat button.

    My wife has just acquired a 2018 Audi Q5 that has it, so now that’s become something actually to think about. There’s a simple dash button to override the feature, but as pointed out in someone’s previous post that only holds for the current trip.

    At some point I’ll probably break out the VCDS and go find the software code to disable it permanently.

  • avatar

    it doesn’t bother me – current implementations are much better than the early ones.

    The real crime against humanity is GM’s skip shift.

  • avatar
    NeilM

    Fortunately there immediately emerged a cottage industry for skip-shift defeating.

  • avatar
    beachbumchris

    The undefeatable start/stop on the 2016 Chevy Cruze is what made me opt for the 2015 (first generation) Cruze instead. I made it very clear to the Chevy salesmen how much I hated the start/stop feature. GM may have listened, as the 2019 Chevy Cruze ordering guides are showing an auto start/stop deactivation button added as standard equipment.

  • avatar
    James2

    I believe Ford invented the world’s first stop/start system. My POS ’80 Mustang would repeatedly stall and I would have to repeatedly restart it. It was, how you say, “interactive”.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    Hasn’t stop/start technology been around for years now via multiple manufacturers? Isn’t it a bit of a trope at this point of the “unknown reliability” issue. I think it’s pretty known at this point – non-issue.

    I’m more concerned about direct injection and engine coking than I am about duty cycles of a stop/start system.

    Driven several equipped vehicles with varying impressions.

    Malibu? Horrid. Absolutely horrid.
    Previous generation Malibu? Kill it with fire. Destroy. What were they thinking?
    Ford Edge? Acceptable.
    Ford Fusion? Darn impressive – almost invisible.
    Mercedes GLK350? On par with the Ford Edge, which is to say should be acceptable but utterly unacceptable given it is a Mercedes
    Buick LaCrosse (Gen III): Utterly invisible – the way it should be and the way the Mercedes should have been

    If I remember correctly – but I can’t say I dug around for a button – I don’t believe any of them had a defeat feature (at least an easily found button).

    But that 1.5T Malibu with the 9-speed and auto stop/start? Absolutely horrible.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus

      It has been around for a while, there aren’t any major issues/concerns with it that I’ve heard about.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus

      Didn’t catch the edit window in time, but I believe the Fords do have a switch to disable it. Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about it unless it’s a hot day and keeping the a/c on is a priority.

      • 0 avatar
        dwford

        The system in my Cruze won’t shut the engine off if the temp is below 40 degrees outside, but has no problem shutting the engine off when the temp is 100.

        My Hyundai Sonata Hybrid was the exact opposite. Had no problem letting me freeze to death in the winter, but kept me nice and cool in the summer.

  • avatar
    Truckducken

    No issues here, as long as it doesn’t have interminable restart time. Have had many rentals with it, and zero issues. Our ’16 Optima hybrid also does this, of course. I’m sure it has a tiny negative influence on the life of starter and engine, but these items tend to last forever anymore so losing a percent of service life does not really concern me…and I’m the guy with all the 200K+ mile vehicles.

  • avatar
    jacob_coulter

    It’s a deal breaker for me.
    Big reason I went with a Lexus over a Mercedes.

    The Mercedes felt like it was breaking down at every stop light. For what? 50 cents a month in gas savings?

    I don’t care what anybody says, I guarantee you this has a negative effect on the components like the starter, charging system, etc. Longevity will be severely reduced for a rounding error in fuel savings.

  • avatar
    JK43123

    So let me see…not only would it stop 100 times in a drivethru but then I couldn’t sit and eat with the A/C running? What a load.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Not how it works. Not how it works at all.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      NO. Auto stop/start systems will only activate a few times in close succession (e.g. crawling through a drive through.) then it’ll disable itself until you’ve driven normally for a bit. got to keep the catalysts hot.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        Also if you put the car in park auto stop in every car I’ve driven with it was instantly disabled – so you can feed your head hole with Big Macs all day long with the AC set to 60 and the engine running.

        • 0 avatar
          JimC2

          But I don’t want to have to reach own and put it in Park! Arughhsdfhjkhsfd!! That’s a deal braker for me.*

          * Pun/word crime there for jkross22 and JohnTaurus

  • avatar
    jacob_coulter

    I’d like to know definitively, but does stop/start have any effect on CAFE ratings?
    Because the feature is able to be disabled by the user, I would think not.

    It almost makes me more angry because it’s being forced down our throats by CEO’s making us eat our vegetables. At least let the 90% of us that don’t want this have a choice and not annoy us everytime.

    At least on the Mecredes, EVERY time you had to disable it. If it was a one time thing, I wouldn’t care.

  • avatar
    jdmcomp

    I passed over a Mercedes, Jaguar and BMW due to the S/S effect when restarting. Put in a off switch and I am good. Not just disable, a stop this FXXking foolishness switch.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    Once upon a time cars came with switches to disable ABS because there were those who were convinced it was more dangerous than good ol’ let me pump the brakes myself. I want to turn that crap off. Haven’t seen a disable ABS switch in decades.

  • avatar
    JLGOLDEN

    My 2018 Honda Odyssey has a stop/start system which must be deactivated with each restart. Requiring this extra step at each startup (3-7 times per day) is senseless and annoying. I regularly forget to hit the override button, and minutes later I’m greeted with a shudder and lurch when trying to pull out of my neighborhood. It’s not safe to have this delay and extra burst of anxiety. It would seem more logical that stop/start ONLY toggles “active” in the ECON mode. However annoying the Honda system is, it beats the unacceptable non-defeatable systems in GM products.

  • avatar
    KOKing

    My 2015 Mini remembers last state, so it’s off 99% of the time. Plus it’s MT, so even if it’s on, as long as the clutch is disengaged, it stays off. What actually annoys me is when I WANT it to work (eg. in a slow drive-thru line), the system decides its shut itself too often after about 2 cycles, then disables itself.

  • avatar
    HotPotato

    Stop-start is WAY better than what manufacturers were doing before: setting super-low idle speeds that shake the car like a bucket of bolts at a stoplight and CANNOT be user-adjusted to a higher, smoother RPM. If you think that’s preferable, you’re outta yer damn mind.

    I was stuck with a Chrysler 200 with its big rough 2.4 liter four and trembly almost-stalled idle speed for a week of city driving, and I hated stopping at every light even though I otherwise liked the car. Similar deal with a Ford Fusion 2.5 liter.

    And those were nearly NEW cars. Engine mounts wear out, so it only gets worse with time. Heck, they probably wear out a lot sooner subjected to that violent low-RPM idle vibration. Even the glass-smooth inline-six of my otherwise-gracefully aging Volvo XC60 feels like a clapped-out Hyundai at low engine speeds now. I’d be stoked to have stop-start available: better a little startup delay than a four-figure bill to replace every mount in hopes of catching whichever one has failed.

    Back when I bought my C-Max, there was no such thing as a regular car with stop-start: you had to buy a hybrid to get it, so I did. Obviously stop-start works a lot better with a hybrid, where a strong electric motor gets you moving instantly.

    But, all that said…how much fuel is a 1.5 going to use at idle really? How much shaking is a little sewing-machine engine like that really going to do at idle? I can definitely see stop-start on a 2.5 liter four, but with a 1.5 I imagine you might be marching right over the line of diminishing returns.

  • avatar
    Michael500

    Thanks OBAMA, for this IDIOCY. Thank God Trump is doing something about the RIDICULOUS CAFE standards. If you think Trump is doing something wrong, YOU are an IDIOT because it brings stupid things like this to your car.

  • avatar
    ROCKIN RICHIE

    The clever Subaru owners who as a group are probably the techiest ( many Subarus in the parking lots of high end companies) have discovered that simply plugging in a dummy connector in your trailer hitch permanently disables this troublesome feature. Also claimed to work on the Ford trucks as well. I do not own a Subaru so I am not pumping up my own tires here!

    • 0 avatar
      ponchoman49

      It is also offered on numerous GM products including my Impala. It plugs into the hood “open” wiring which makes the car think the hood is open but no error about it being open is displayed and the car never shuts off. A couple of friends tried it on there Chevy’s and it works perfectly.

  • avatar
    The Gentle Grizzly

    I’ve tried it in several vehicles.
    1) A VW PASSAT DIESEL 6 speed manual. I tried it, and then overrode is for the rest of the time I had it on rental.

    2) 2018 Chevy Equinox. I had no choice, but found the auto start stop to be unobtrusive and very well-implemented.

    3) 2018 Honda Odyssey I just bought. Poorly implemented, rough, and I mash on the override button as part of my startup procedure. Give my d’ruthers, I’d override it permanently.

    As good as it was in the Equinox, a no-choice system will be a deal-breaker on my next car purchase.

  • avatar
    Matinicus

    I love it. ANYTHING to stop the endless and pointless idling virtually EVERY single driver on earth does. Get in car, turn on motor, then check cellphone email for 45 mins WITH THE MOTOR RUNNING. Perfect Spring day and you have windows open? The car IS STILL idling and pumping carbon into the air. For no reason. Just…idling.

  • avatar
    cityscapex5

    S/S doesn’t work well on Internal combustion engines because there is nothing modern about burning fossil fuels in your individual transport for propulsion. Continuing to retrofit ICE engines with newer technologies just doesn’t work at some point.

  • avatar
    zipper69

    I had this inflicted on me in a small Ford hire car in the UK.
    In stop/go traffic in and around the big cities it is infuriating and in a small Ford tin box the lurch of restarting is annoying.

    Maybe a 4 liter plus V8 in a heavy sedan would be less annoying but I doubt it.

  • avatar
    ponchoman49

    I have it on my 2017 LT 2.5 Impala and so does a co-worker on his 2015. His car is closing in on 150K miles and he has had zero issues with the entire drive-train. Mine is only at 26K but I have lived with it for a year. 95% of the time it is a non issue. In the colder weather with heat and fan blaring it doesn’t even shut off. Ditto in the Summer months with the A/C on normal mode. If it is in eco mode it does shut off occasionally.

    I have found that if you ease into a stop without mashing the brake it doesn’t shut off. Putting it into neutral also disables it. Certain times I let it shut off like when i’m waiting 10 minutes in a drive thru or at the bank and it works nicely then. Once it restarts from a shut down it stays running until you start driving again.

    Also to note the stop/start off and then back on again is very smooth in my car and the only way to make it rough is to slam the brake and then mash the gas pedal in a split second. Otherwise it is very smooth and unobtrusive.

  • avatar
    Tenshi Love

    On a scale of 1 to 10 of start/stop hate where 1 is miffed but i go with it because no choice and 10 is rage smashing the button to turn it off every time, research cables, software and gadgets to bypass it… my position is 1 followed by 40 zeros.


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