By on January 26, 2017

Donald Trump

Consumer products and vehicles produced outside of the U.S. could see a big hike in sticker price if the Trump administration goes ahead with a proposed plan to tax Mexican goods — and eventually all foreign goods — to the tune of 20 percent.

The White House said today the measure is being looked at as part of a wide-ranging tax overhaul package under consideration by Congress. The announcement came after an anticipated visit by Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto went south.

The meeting between Trump and Nieto, scheduled for next week, fell apart today, with the Mexican leader taking to Twitter to announce the update. Of course, Nieto’s tweet came after one fired off by Trump, where he said the meeting should probably not go ahead if Mexico isn’t willing to pay for the administration’s proposed border wall.

Earlier this week, Trump pulled the U.S. out of the fledgling Trans-Pacific Partnership and announced his intention to renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement. The president has clearly expressed his desire to reach bilateral deals with individual nations. Mexico sends 80 percent of its goods to the U.S.

“I’ve said many times that the American people will not pay for the wall,” Trump said after the visit’s cancellation. “Unless Mexico is going to treat the United States fairly, with respect, such a meeting would be fruitless and I want to go a different route.”

Yesterday, Trump signed an executive order to begin construction of the wall — a key election plank proposed as a method of stemming illegal immigration. Nieto tweeted that his country is still hoping to reach a trade agreements “that favor both nations.”

White House spokesman Sean Spicer said the import tax is one of a range of options for paying for the wall, and it could eventually be applied to other nations. He added the tax could be targeted at specific industries.

Even if the 20-percent import tax was only applied to Mexican-made goods, it would still cause a shakeup in automakers’ production plans. Car manufacturers, both domestic and foreign, move production of low-profit vehicles south of the border to avoid the expense of opening costly assembly American plants to serve the U.S. market. Earlier this week, Trump proposed decreasing corporate tax rates to between 15 and 20 percent.

While Mexico and other countries stare down the barrel of a serious economic disruption, Canada, on the other hand, could make out like a bandit — assuming that country’s free-trade agreement with the U.S. stays intact.

After Trump pledged to reopen NAFTA, the head of his business advisory panel said that Canada shouldn’t worry about collateral damage.

“Canada is very well-positioned for any discussions with the United States,” said Stephen Schwarzman, adding that the U.S. holds its northern neighbor in “very high regard.” Canada sends 75 percent of its goods to the U.S., including vehicles produced by the Detroit Three, Honda and Toyota.

[Source: Reuters, Business Insider]

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423 Comments on “Trump Proposes 20-percent Tax on Mexican Goods to Pay for Wall; Other Countries Could Take a Hit...”


  • avatar
    davewg

    I have to think some companies, Audi for one, must be super worried about the specter of a 20% import tax. They’re due to produce the Q5 solely in Mexico. It’s their top seller here…

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      “I have to think some companies, Audi for one, must be super worried about the specter of a 20% import tax. They’re due to produce the Q5 solely in Mexico.”

      The threat of a border tax to pay for the wall is strictly a leverage tool to put Mexico at a disadvantage in future negotiations. Trump is making their heads explode!

      Anyone producing in Mexico should be worried. It will jack up the price of their goods to the consumer and demand for their product will drop like a stone.

      But this is the new reality. Trump is the new POTUS, and will be for at least the next four years. He was put in office by the people who shared the message he brought to the election.

      All the #nevertrumpers in America? …….. Their heads are exploding.

      • 0 avatar
        TonyJZX

        Republicans wanting more taxation. What a world.

        Just so you guys are clear:

        Top 10 Mexican imports into the US:

        1. Vehicles: $74.9 billion
        2. Electronic equipment: $62.9 billion
        3. Machinery: $49 billion
        4. Oil: $14 billion
        5. Medical, technical equipment: $12.2 billion
        6. Furniture, lighting, signs: $10.8 billion
        7. Vegetables: $5.5 billion
        8. Fruits, nuts: $5.4 billion
        9. Gems, precious metals: $5.1 billion
        10. Plastics: $4.8 billion

        That’s what you’re asking for 20% more on. Enjoy it.

        Either way its a losing proposition.

        Congress doesnt pass it, administration looks weak on trade.

        Congress passes it, enjoy paying 20% more on these items.

        Either way the rest of world that’s not the US or Mexico is sitting down with their popcorn wondering what else is going to explode in their faces… and its not even the 2nd week yet.

        Also I find it hilarious wannabee pundits dont want TTAC to report on this… because its not relevant? Whats #1 on the list?

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          “Also I find it hilarious wannabee pundits dont want TTAC to report on this… because its not relevant? Whats #1 on the list?”

          I agree. This is YUUUUUUGE! And it is only the beginning.

          I suspect there will be many more earth-shaking, industry-rattling proclamations in the next few days.

          He’s only scratched the surface so far. Anyone who did not take this guy seriously, like the liberal alt-left media shills for the ‘crats, is going to be painfully surprised.

          Just wait until he starts filling federal court nominees!

          • 0 avatar
            nrcote

            highdesertcat
            > Anyone who did take this guy seriously
            > is going to be painfully surprised.

            TFTFY.

          • 0 avatar
            TonyJZX

            My question to the white middle class republicans… at what point is it too much?

            It seems that some don’t mind paying 20% more on certain items. I mean if you dont buy new cars, then why does it matter?

            20% more on fresh fruit vegetables? No big deal?

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            nrcote, yeah, if they did take him seriously they could very well be painfully surprised. Like having to pay 20% more for something imported from Mexico.

            But they can always defer their purchase, or buy from another source, or not buy at all.

            —————

            TonyJZX, I’m not a Republican, so I don’t know. Middle class? Income is too low to have to file a tax return each year.

            I do know that when I buy something, I either pay the price that it costs, or I don’t.

          • 0 avatar
            ect

            Imposing a tax such as Trump is suggesting would be a violation of both NAFTA and WTO treaties – to which the US is bound.

            US courts would be bound to strike it down, and it would open the US up to formal retaliation. Not to mention that US industry will be busy telling Congressional Reps and Senators (with logic and cash) that the NAFTA markets are so integrated that disrupting the present situation will be very bad for everyone.

            This is an empty bluff that has no hope of EVER coming to pass, and Mexico will know that.

            It should only end badly for Trump. In the real world, there will probably be a few tweaks to NAFTA that will allow everyone to claim victory. Not that I’m cynical….

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            ect, I’m no Trump fan, but the guy has given notice, both on the campaign trail AND after taking office that he will be pulling out of established trade deals and renegotiating them to America’s advantage if the former trade partners want to dance again.

            The Senate will play it Trump’s way because this is the first time in a coon’s age that the Republicans have the Hill and the White House, all at the same time.

            They have a chance to make some real changes now, first time in many decades.

            But they only have two years to do it, before the mid-term election. So they gotta get it right, for their constituents.

            Or else become a do-nothing Congress again. The ‘crats aren’t even players this go’round. All the ‘crats can do is watch and play the obstructionist game.

            The tables have turned 180 degrees from the previous Congress.

      • 0 avatar

        Yes. We are stuck inthe back seat. Dad is drunk and fighting with mom. We are close to the edge of a drop off. Dad has never learned to drive but got the wheel somehow.

        Whatever your politics this man is NOT suited to be President

      • 0 avatar
        Ol Shel

        Try to forget that the GOP is funded by the same corporations that Trump is attacking. He will bankrupt the party by angering the biggest donors.

        The Pubelickin’s are like deer in Trump’s headlights. If they don’t act fast, they’ll be run over by corporate america coming from the other direction. Money makes politics go ’round, and this threatens to shut off the spigot.

        And don’t forget that protectionism drives up interest rates and increases the value of the dollar, encouraging foreign investment and reducing exports. Reduced exports, tax cuts, and automation equal bad news for american manufacturing workers.

    • 0 avatar
      cbrworm

      It sounds like, ultimately, we will pay for the wall through higher prices on products and services. Essentially we are being taxed to build this wall.

      Awesome.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    “Simply put, any policy proposal which drives up costs of Corona, tequila, or margaritas is a big-time bad idea. Mucho Sad.” – Lindsey Graham

    Amen Senator

    • 0 avatar
      davewg

      And a the rate we’re going those will likely be in much more demand…

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      The silver lining is that Trump policies on climate change will mean that agave will soon grow in North Dakota.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @VoGo – I wonder how much land Trump owns in the sub-Arctic?
        I’ve read that the Russians are investing heavily in the militarization of the Arctic.
        Anyone living in Siberia anti-climate change?

        • 0 avatar
          RobertRyan

          @Lou_BC
          Ford is not going to the only Company hit by relocation costs, this is only the start. Going to be very expensive before it gets better. Must congratulate Trump for sinking the TPP, a very stupid idea , that would have disadvantaged everyone in the end.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        a. I lived in Hong Kong
        b. 25% of global carbon emissions are American made
        c. You know less than John Snow.

      • 0 avatar
        carlisimo

        China only recently took away first spot for emissions, but at least a third of its production is for Western markets so in a way it’s our emissions, exported over there.

        In cumulative emissions by country, we’re #1 by a mile.

        Unfortunately, it is enough to drive climate change. There’s nothing magical about it, we’ve understood the mechanisms since 1897. We just didn’t know how quickly, and climate models and modern records are now figuring that out. Don’t think that any of us on TTAC are happy about it – if we’re posting here it’s because we love driving. I like high-revving engines, and they’re getting slaughtered by emissions standards.

        But most of the pollution that you can see doesn’t contribute to global warming because it consists of particulate matter. Those have a net cooling effect, along with ruining your lungs and causing acid rain. (But low-altitude ozone also contributes to smog, and it has a warming effect.)

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        You really lived in Hong Kong, VoGo?

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        3 months, during the handover. Split my time between HK and Manila.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I want to visit there, probably Shanghai and Hong Kong on a three week jaunt.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        I grew up with a Midwesterner’s sense of personal space. Being in HK, I always felt surrounded by SO MANY PEOPLE, and they were all so crowded together. I don’t think I could live there. I’ve heard similar things about parts of India, although I’ve never been.

        But if you are an exec on an expat package and enjoy a colonial type of lifestyle with lots of inexpensive labor to serve you, HK is quite an amazing place.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I just gotta work on that being an exec on an expat package part.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        It reminds me of something my dad always said…any city is great as long as you have money.

        Well, maybe not Peoria…

    • 0 avatar
      Snooder

      Senators, and liquor store owners.

      20% increase in price of liquor means decrease in number of customers. Less customers means less revenue. Less revenue means less profit. Less profit means possibly not being able to pay the bank mortgage. Not paying the mortgage means no more store.

      At which point, it’s not just the owner, but his employees and his vendors that start feeling the pain.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Top 10 list of what Mexico actually exports:

        Vehicles: US$90.4 billion (23.7% of total exports)
        Electronic equipment: $81.2 billion (21.3%)
        Machines, engines, pumps: $58.9 billion (15.5%)
        Oil: $22.8 billion (6%)
        Medical, technical equipment: $15.2 billion (4%)
        Furniture, lighting, signs: $9.9 billion (2.6%)
        Plastics: $8.3 billion (2.2%)
        Gems, precious metals, coins: $7.1 billion (1.9%)
        Iron or steel products: $5.7 billion (1.5%)
        Vegetables: $5.6 billion (1.5%)

        It’s not Corona and tequila – these goods are critical to our economy.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Ugh.

      Lindsey Graham is such a douchebag.

      If the GOP got rid of all their Lindsey Grahams and the Democrats got rid of all their Nancy Pelosis, it’d be a small 1st step forward.

  • avatar
    SirRaoulDuke

    Ah, so we will be paying for his silly wall after all, just with increased consumer prices instead of taxes.

    • 0 avatar
      carlisimo

      We import a lot of fruit and vegetables from Mexico, especially during the winter.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      If you are going to suggest people try American products, it might help to know that Budweiser is owned by Belgian-Brazilian InBev.

      • 0 avatar
        OldManPants

        He jiss drunk rat now, dass all.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        People who actually understand the economy know that the employment we want isn’t line workers in breweries. It’s head office jobs. And the way to get them is to have an educated, motivated workforce.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        Even better, skip the Bud and other big corporate stuff and buy from your local breweries and distillers. That way the money stays in your local community.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        This I support. 1 growler at a time.

      • 0 avatar
        stuki

        “People who actually understand the economy know that the employment we want isn’t line workers in breweries. It’s head office jobs. And the way to get them is to have an educated, motivated workforce.”

        Only shallow, misguided, weak minded semi literates who claim to understand “the economy,” believe this. Value add comes from activities that add value. The more directly, the better. Engineers and production workers do this.

        Most of head office staff, do not. Instead being, at best, symptoms of a severely sick regulatory and financial regime that mandates all manners of make work being done, in order for the ever shrinking shares of productive workers to even be allowed to do what they do, which is create and produce.

        If it superficially looks like “head office jobs” are some sort of panacea, look no further than the massive credit buildup that has taken place since Nixon severed any constraints on out of control money printing. Which made making “dollars” more about dorking around with financing stuff than building and creating it. And about squabbling about who has the “rights” to the “assets” the Fed’s fresh printed deluge is pumping up next, rather than about creating something of value someone else is willing too buy.

        In that kind of degenerate “economy” yes, legal, finance and secondarily HR and other make-nothing-but-consume-a-lot employees may look like some sort of asset to a country. But push come to shove, all those who consume more than they produce are net negatives. Hardly something anyone would want more of. At least anyone who “understand the economy.”

    • 0 avatar
      SirRaoulDuke

      If I personally consume enough to pay for the wall, I probably won’t worry about increased costs. You might want to take a look at what Mexico exports to the US; costs for certain products will certainly increase, and all of us will pay for that silly wall. Add in the retaliatory tariff Mexico will certainly impose, and we find another way for all of us to pay for it. That’s the thing with blanket tariffs, governments don’t pay that, consumers do. The only good tariff is a strategic tariff, for example against dirty pool like dumping.

    • 0 avatar
      ect

      I have sometimes been tempted to opine that there’s no such thing as a bad beer. But then I remember American Budweiser (as distinct from Czech Budweiser Budvar, made in Budweis).

      What a cheap, nasty swill it is. I’m no fan of Corona and not at all a snob about beer or anything else, but Corona’s a far superior product to Budweiser.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    Trump is going pivot towards The Netherlands:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELD2AwFN9Nc

  • avatar
    notapreppie

    Mexicans come to America for work and a better life.

    Automakers are moving production to Mexico, which will create jobs and (theoretically) improve quality of life.

    Trump comes along and undermines all of that by making Mexico less attractive for manufacturing thus increasing the pressure for Mexicans to illegally cross the border.

    Improving the Mexican economy is probably the best way to achieve the stated goal of reducing illegal immigration. Not only that, but it makes American companies more profitable and reduces the cost of their products for Americans.

    Has nobody explained this to the giant ambulatory Cheeto yet?

    • 0 avatar
      notapreppie

      And? I feel like you’re arguing a very poorly defined straw man.

      Since you seem to have missed it, here is my central point distilled down to its essence:

      The best way to stop illegal immigration is to make them not want to come here.

      Building a wall and adding tariffs is counterproductive and wasteful.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        I just read an interesting article about that “wall”. It isn’t going to be of much help. There are ways around anything. The biggest problem with it is all of the animosity that it causes between countries. The USA is going to have a much bigger problem if Mexico decides not to cooperate on any cross border problem. Good luck on that “war on drugs”.

        • 0 avatar
          GeneralMalaise

          Successful people deal with failure by learning from their mistakes and trying again and again until they succeed. Failures simply quit after failing. One doesn’t give up, one redefines the strategy and tries again and again, if the goal is an important goal. Securing the border and mitigating the flow of drugs and illegal immigrants – whether they’re searching for a better life or have nefarious objectives – are worthy goals.

          And they are supported by a majority of American citizens, let alone the law.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          “Successful people deal with failure by learning from their mistakes and trying again and again until they succeed.”

          I take this to mean you have a younger sibling?

        • 0 avatar
          GeneralMalaise

          Yes, I do have a younger brother and yes, my wife is hotter than yours, vogo, lol…

          Your post from several months ago – where you regaled all with your success, your disciplined training regimen and your “hottie wife” still brings a chuckle when I read your fluff.

        • 0 avatar
          Grahambo

          Throughout history, such walls and similar fortifications always have been huuugely successful. As I recall, the Maginot Line helped repel the Germans, thus preserving France as a sovereign nation during WWII. Later, the Berlin Wall ensured that no-one was able to escape the Eastern Bloc for the freedom of the West. I am sure that, with modern advancements in wall technology, this Great Wall will be impenetrable and a great use of resources.

      • 0 avatar
        ect

        You’re absolutely right, and that was a basic premise of NAFTA. Which Trump now wants to throw away.

        Some years ago, Penn and Teller built a section of border wall in Texas, and hired 3 groups of Mexican immigrants to try to cross it – 1 to go under, 1 to go through, and 1 to go over. All of them did it in less than 20 minutes. What message say?

        • 0 avatar
          shaker

          “What message say?”

          AMERICAN JOBS

          $1 billion per year repairing/maintaining border wall.

          Next: Western Hemisphere Naval Blockade of Chinese Container Ships Trading With Mexico.

        • 0 avatar
          notapreppie

          @shaker

          Are you telling me that Republicans are only in favor of small government when it suits them? I mean, $1B/yr maintaining a government wall isn’t exactly small government. How could you even privatize that? Border crossing tolls? “Protection” money?

      • 0 avatar
        notapreppie

        You’re going to have to make the connection between Mexico doing better and America doing worse. It isn’t a zero sum game. Mexico can do better while we also do better.

        In fact, since we do so much business with Mexico, them doing better will probably mean we will do better.

    • 0 avatar
      bikegoesbaa

      “How they get social security cards? They work illegally and involved in shadow economy which really doesn’t benefit anyone.”

      That sounds like an excellent reason to just give them citizenship and shut down this shadow economy for good.

      Then they pay exactly the same taxes as everybody else, and are also subject to minimum wage laws so they can’t undercut native-born people and “take our jerbs”.

      When slaves ran away and made it to freedom in the North they were breaking the law. Should people have been concerned “But if the first step on free soil is illegal, what about all further steps?”

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        bikegoesbaa gets my vote.

      • 0 avatar
        notapreppie

        Your ideas are intriguing to me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

      • 0 avatar
        OldManPants

        “When slaves ran away.. Should people have been concerned?”

        Millions in the North were. Nobody wants their labor undercut and huge numbers of slaves were highly skilled as the Southern aristocracy did exactly jack sh*t for itself.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        I still find it hard to believe that everyone calls you dick.

      • 0 avatar
        OldManPants

        “I still find it hard to believe that everyone calls you dick.”

        That’s aspirational and he works hard for his dream.

        I’d let him immigrate and judging by his slipping hold on English when sloshed he may have fairly recently done so.

      • 0 avatar
        bikegoesbaa

        Tell me more.

        I’d be willing to dismantle much of the prison industry and decriminalize a lot of things; I suggest we start with drugs.

        Let’s repeal blue laws while we’re at it.

      • 0 avatar
        stuki

        “When slaves ran away and made it to freedom in the North they were breaking the law. Should people have been concerned “But if the first step on free soil is illegal, what about all further steps?”” :) Nice!

        Shadow economies are good, though. Not something decent people should want to get rid off. They are just regular people interacting without being stuck paying “protection money” for protection against hobgoblins they need no protection against in the first place. Being that all hobgoblins are imaginary and all.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “Why don’t we level down prisons”

        You have to put those blacks somewhere.

        Richard Prior said this about prison, “You go down there looking for justice; that’s what you find: just us.”

      • 0 avatar
        notapreppie

        False equivalence.

    • 0 avatar
      Kendahl

      Nobody objects to well educated immigrants (e.g. doctors, engineers) who are a net benefit to the country. What we don’t need are the uneducated who are a net drain. A properly designed immigration system, which we don’t have, would favor the first group over the second.

      Building a physical barrier on the Mexican border won’t stop illegal immigration. They will go over, under or around it. A substantial fraction of the illegal population consists of immigrants who entered on temporary visas and, when they expired, went underground instead of going home. The only measures that will effectively discourage illegal immigration are ones that make day-to-day life untenable. It would be pretty hard to live here if you couldn’t rent or buy housing, buy an automobile, open a bank account, get a credit card, enroll in school or get medical care for anything less than a life threatening emergency.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “What we don’t need are the uneducated who are a net drain.”

        Those “deplorables” are the root of all evil.

        • 0 avatar
          OldManPants

          Exactly. Keep the effing Mexicans out because we’re now entirely self-sufficient in the production of under-educated and over-breeding sub-100s.

          Make Americans Grunt Again!

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            OldManPants – yeah. That is how you ensure winning another term in office.

            T-rumps genius shines through once again: Betsy DeVos Education Secretary.

          • 0 avatar
            GeneralMalaise

            Yes, because inner-city children have been so well-served by the current system. School choice and charter schools are overwhelmingly supported by the black community, just one example.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        Kendahl, I believe it is more about illegal aliens with Trump. Illegals are people who did not follow the rules to come to America. The first ones thrown out will be illegal aliens with criminal records.

        No other country puts up with people entering their sovereign territory illegally. And neither should America.

        Everyone is welcome in America, as long as they get here legally.

        Mexico would not tolerate illegal alien Americans moving down there to squat. Plenty of precedence there.

        In order to live in Mexico as a foreign national for any length of time, you must register with the local policia and have your passport stamped.

        I do this every time I go to visit my brothers who are resident aliens in Ensenada, BC, Mexico. And I will do so again the next time I go and stay a few months.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      1995 is that you?

      I guess you haven’t heard the giant sucking sound lo these many years friend.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    “The wall is here, jobs are coming back quite quickly and Mexico will pay for the wall.”

    Translation: A piece of paper was signed reallocating nonexistent funds to supposedly build the wall, a few employers were strong-armed through laughably anti-capitalist methods into retaining a number of jobs that’s less than the churn in one normal day, and the President jabbered about a tariff that he can’t impose without a pro-trade Congress.

    You’re very gullible.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      I freely admit to underestimating just how many Americans believe everything someone says to them on the teevee.

      So far, the Trump “administration” is a Potemkin village. No staff, a bunch of executive orders with showy language that don’t actually do much of anything, and a President who can’t be persuaded to put down the Twitter app and think about policy.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        “I freely admit to underestimating just how many Americans believe everything someone says to them on the teevee.”

        You didn’t really just type that, did you?

        Just as a reminder – CNN, FOX, ABC, CBS and NBC are all for profit companies. They’ll all happily peddle anything that keeps as many of us glued to their trash as possible.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        “Just as a reminder – CNN, FOX, ABC, CBS and NBC are all for profit companies. They’ll all happily peddle anything that keeps as many of us glued to their trash as possible.”

        Thus the wall-to-wall orange coverage of the past year or so.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Well, PBS should be funded for a few more weeks.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        My holdings in the market have indeed jumped 10%. I think that reflects a pretty myopic focus by investors on tax cuts in the short term, especially since Trump said he’d sign Paul Ryan’s tax reform bill. I’m not counting on keeping those 10% in the long term.

        Wall Street is focused on 3 months into the future. It doesn’t do very well at 1 year in the future, let alone 4 or 8.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Yeah. Stock market at 2.5X from when Obama started to when he finished. Greatest performance in history.

      • 0 avatar
        GeneralMalaise

        Trump has done more good in one week than the last three administrations did over nearly a quarter century.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        It’s hard for Trump to have done any good when he didn’t do anything at all (except reinstate the global gag rule, something Reagan and W Bush both did when they came to power as well).

        He’s signed a bunch of executive orders that do nothing of substance. It is purely an exercise for the cameras, with no there there.

  • avatar
    Snooder

    “Mexico will pay for the wall” is not all the same as “Haha suckers, get ready to start paying out the ass for cheap small cars”.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Looks like putinsorangepotus and some of his oompa loompas do not understand how trade works.

      A 20% tariff on *imports” FROM Mexico.

      How does that make THEM pay for a wall?

      I’m sure that a large number of his supporters are walmartians. 20% more for those generic speedo’s is gonna hurt a lot of people.

      • 0 avatar
        mtmmo

        You have every right to be jealous of Trump and his Administration especially when compared to your beta male leader who’s destroying your economy. I recently read in the NYT’s that Canada’s economy will fall out of global top 10 by 2019. You better pray Trump goes easy on you over NAFTA otherwise you’ll be out of the top 10 by 2018.

      • 0 avatar
        Whittaker

        “putinsorangepotus”

        I’m not up on the latest PC trends.
        Is making fun of someones skin color back in vogue?

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          Whittaker – His hair is sort of orange and that fake tan looks orange.

          ” “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes… Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else…Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that’s guy’s lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks,” John O’Donnell, a former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump saying to him in his 1991 book. In May 1997, Trump was asked about his comment during an interview with Playboy, and he confirmed that “the stuff” O’Donnell wrote about him were “probably true.”

        • 0 avatar
          Whittaker

          Yeah I’m definitely not a fan of Trump.
          And criticism of his words, actions and character is fair. Even “Putin” has meaning in context.
          I just think it best if skin color isn’t part of a critical description. jmo

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          Whittaker – orange or cheeto has been bantered about for some time now.

          I do get your point.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @CallmeDick – simple metaphor in relation to trade deficits:
        “What is the trade deficit?

        Imagine a world where there are only two countries, and only two products. One country makes cars; the other grows bananas.

        People in CarNation want bananas, so they buy $1 million worth from people in BananaLand. Residents of BananaLand want cars, so they buy $2 million of them from CarNation.

        That difference is the trade deficit: BananaLand has a $1 million trade deficit; CarNation has a $1 million trade surplus.

        But this does not mean that BananaLand is “losing” to CarNation. Cars are really useful, and BananaLandites got a lot of them in exchange for their money.

        But when a country runs a trade deficit, as the United States does, there is a countervailing force. Think back to our pretend countries. BananaLand has a $1 million trade deficit with CarNation. But that means that car producers in CarNation are sitting on an extra $1 million a year in income.

        Something has to happen with that $1 million, and both of the two options have consequences.

        One option is to keep that money at home. But keeping that money inside CarNation will push the value of its currency upward. And as its currency goes up, cars will become more expensive in BananaLand — causing people there to buy fewer of them until eventually the trade deficit is eliminated.

        If CarNation doesn’t want its currency to rise, it has to take that $1 million trade surplus and plow it back into BananaLand. There are different ways it could do that. People in CarNation could buy stocks or bonds in BananaLand, or companies in CarNation could invest in factories in BananaLand, or the government of CarNation could buy assets directly.

        The choice is stark: A country running a trade surplus must either let its currency rise or let money flow back to its trading partners.”

        https: //www. nytimes. com/2016/03/28/ upshot/the-trade-deficit-isnt-a-scorecard-and-cutting-it-wont-make-america-great-again.html?_r=0

      • 0 avatar
        ect

        Lou_BC, to amplify your point, trade balance is a red herring.

        For example, Canada has traditionally run a strong trade surplus with the US. We run a deficit in manufactured goods, but we sell resource products that the US does not have.

        And Canada uses this surplus to fund the non-trade current accounts (such as dividends paid by US subsidiaries and interest on borrowings from US lenders), so the net tends to balance out.

        The same situation prevails in the US, which runs a huge surplus in exports of services and in interest and dividends from American people/companies investments abroad, and uses this surplus to buy goods for consumers.

  • avatar
    carlisimo

    New illegal immigration from Mexico has been quite low since 2009. We won’t need a wall until we issue tariffs on Mexico and drive Mexican production to other countries in order to pay for the wall that we will need once we issue tariffs on Mexico and drive Mexican production to other countries for the sake of the wall we didn’t need until we issued tariffs to pay for the wall that we…

    Also, this bothers me because it will hurt Mazda.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      I was an advocate for more transplant and domestic automakers moving factories down south to Mexico, in order to escape UAW harassment.

      Then Trump.

      Who knew that Trump was a union man?

      Bringing more jobs back to the USA has emboldened the UAW and other unions because Trump has their back to drive those employers out of business with their irrational demands for ever higher wages and benefits.

  • avatar
    OldManPants

    Please make the wall long enough to attract all the rattle-can rodents out of our cities and into the desert.

  • avatar
    MatadorX

    I have really good first hand account of the vehicles coming out of Mexico, those from the USA, Canada, Europe, China (Volvo/Buick).

    I am a damage inspector contracting with the larger OEMs at west coast ports (Long Beach, Port Hueneme, San Francisco, and San Diego) and inspect rail, vessel, and truck transport shipments. Hundreds of 1000’s of vehicle inspections later and I can say with 1000% authority, THE VEHICLES COMING FROM MEXICO ARE GARBAGE!!! NOTHING comes close.

    European vehicles: 0.5-1.5% of incoming units arrive with damages
    Canadian vehicles: 2.5-3.0% of incoming units arrive with damages
    Domestic vehicles: 4.5-5.0% of incoming units arrive with damages
    Chinese vehicles: 4.0-5.0% of incoming units arrive with damages
    Mexican vehicles: 10-15% of all incoming units arrive with damages

    The standards of production there are HORRIFYING. I wouldn’t buy something with a “3” VIN if it was the only available option.

    That country DESERVES to have its auto production TAKEN AWAY FOR GOOD! The individuals employed in logistics/production/QC have absolutally atrocious standards for quality and what is acceptable.

    We got the first shipment of Q5’s this week. Typical vessel from Emden holds 350-650 Q5’s. Of that number, no more than 3 have any form of damage. First shipment of 51 Mexican made units, over half have QC/Transport damage due to assembly and transport standards not unlike 70s Detroit.

    Fear the “3” VINS!!!

    And there will be comments to the effect of “I bought a Mexican made such and such, and it has been flawless unlike my USA made such and such”

    ….Sure, #1 we are talking initial quality here, not long-term reliability

    …..#2 there is a HUGE chance your car arrived with some damage, and was repaired in the OEM contracted body shop at the port, where it is the job of the $17/hr painter to push through as MANY body repairs as possible in the average day. Panels (doors, bumpers, hoods) aren’t pulled to respray, emblems are tapped over, orange peel and improper prep are the standard not the exception.

    #2.5 all cars that get painted after the factory, are done so using California WATER BASED garbage paint, NOT the OEM grade quality electrically charged stuff. You ideally NEVER want to buy a new car that even MIGHT have had to be repainted due to poor build/transport standards of a place like Mexico. “W” and “J” VINs don’t usually require this, “3” VINs do to the tune of at least 1 out of 10 units.

    • 0 avatar
      notapreppie

      “…and was repaired in the OEM contracted body shop at the port, where it is the job of the $17/hr painter to push through as MANY body repairs as possible in the average day.”

      How is this different from taking it to any given auto body shop?

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      MatadorX – Please elaborate.

      You’re at a U.S. port inspecting for damages incurred during shipping, yes/no?

      1) How/Why would you be inspecting “domestic” vehicles (ostensibly produced in U.S. factories and then shipped to dealerships by vehicle carrier (from train depots, etc.)?

      2) Canadian assembled vehicles imported into the U.S. typically cross by truck, usually via the Detroit-Windsor point, so again, no sea port delivery based on my understanding.

      3) How/why would/could you inspect for damages in terms of vehicle assembly, interior issues, fit/finish, or other issues? I understand damages incurred during transport to a port, but factories and assembly plants have rigorous final quality check procedures before vehicles are approved for release to be shipped to sales chain.

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      I see an OEM paint shop every single day, they use WATER BASED paint.

  • avatar
    krhodes1

    I’m of two minds about all this. I despise President Trump (trying to respect the office as much as I dislike the present occupant), and all he stands for. But a broken clock is right twice a day. Free trade agreements make sense to me between nations who are equals. US and Canada, GREAT! US and Mexico does seem like a recipe for exporting jobs over all else. It’s fantastic to have cheaper consumer goods – right up until the point half the country can’t afford them because they have no jobs. There is a need for relatively low-skilled but decent paying work. I am lucky enough to be suited to a fairly high paying career in IT. My kid brother is not. He works his butt off as a landscaper, but a decent paying factory job would be a better, more secure option for someone like him.

    Bottom line is free trade mostly makes the rich richer, doesn’t affect the upper middle class much other than cheaper stuff, and screws the lower middle class. The poor are screwed regardless.

    Glad I bought my GTI yesterday. Though it really wouldn’t have fazed me to pay $1k more for one built in Germany instead. Or PA. I’d cheerfully pay $1/pack more for underwear so that 10K people in a factory town somewhere in the deep south can still have a job. And it is probably nowhere near that much difference in either case. Seems like there is a happy medium somewhere to balance things out. It’s probably not 20%, but I don’t think it is free trade either in this case. Of course another part of it is sheer corporate greed. Highly profitable is just not profitable enough! There was a time companies actually cared about their work force, now they are just FTE’s.

    The Great Wall of the US has to be the dumbest idea ever spewed from a politician’s mouth ever though. When has a physical wall every kept people out in the history of humanity? Under, over, around, they will still come.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      krhodes,
      You buried the lede: you got a GTI! Tell us about it. How do you like it so far?

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        This!

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        The full story – I have bought a second home in FL, and will be living there 3/4 time, back in Maine in the summer. Brought my M235i down with me, and rapidly found that as wonderful as that car is, as an ONLY car it is nearly useless for a guy who likes to do DIY projects and such. I initially thought I would pick up a cheap pickup or an old Volvo wagon as a second car, but FL’s insane insurance rates made me rethink that. So I went back to my long held theory that if you are only going to have one car, the Golf is the perfect one to have.

        So it is a 2017 GTI Sport. White on black plaid cloth (yeah,I know I have railed against non-colors, but this car looks RIGHT in white), six-speed stick, of course. I REALLY like it. Sport gets you 10hp, big brakes, and a limited slip diff for the major stuff. Has all of 100 miles on it yet, so I haven’t gotten on it, but it seems plenty quick. The LSD is pretty neat. Android Auto is a pale shadow of the glory that is iDrive. I think I may miss iDrive more than the rest of the car. But AA works. Doesn’t have the effortlessness of the big turbo six, but it may actually be more fun. Is quieter on the highway, I like the seats better so far, and the interior really is higher quality than the BMW, if a tad busy for my taste. A bit less chrome would be not a terrible thing. Pics here:

        https ://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157678099188310

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Congrats! Sounds like a great choice. GTIs really are the Swiss Army knives of driver’s cars.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Enjoy, krhodes!

          And I LOVE the freakin’ plaid seats.

        • 0 avatar
          TOTitan

          My Golf Sportwagen is even more handy and still fun to drive.

        • 0 avatar
          30-mile fetch

          I was strongly considering a GTI S as the replacement for my Sportwagen and cross shopped the basic low-mile used 328 against it and came back thinking that the GTI

          1) was more fun to drive
          2) was every bit as refined
          3) had an interior that was nicer
          4) had far superior seats
          5) is a fantastic car for the $27K asking price before you even get to the likely negotiated price post-dieselgate.

          This seems to line up with your assessment. Congrats on the new digs and new wheels.

    • 0 avatar
      mtmmo

      “When has a physical wall every kept people out in the history of humanity? Under, over, around, they will still come.”

      Wow did you graduate from high school? Have you ever traveled overseas? Go educate yourself over at Wikipedia under ‘Border Barrier’. The world is full of countries with border walls and most high school students would easily cite Israel or China.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        How about Hadrian’s wall, the Marginot line (not really a wall, but same idea), and the Great Wall of China? Nobody wants to get IN to China, and what is immediately outside of China is not that enticing to the Chinese. There is a big difference in scale between a few tens of acres (Vatican), a few tens of miles (Israel) and a couple THOUSAND miles that separate a desperately poor people from what is basically the promised land. We are not going to build and staff the equivalent of the Berlin Wall for a couple thousand miles, with guard posts every hundred yards and kill zones.

        If you want to stop illegal immigration, get serious about punishing the people who HIRE illegal immigrants – nobody comes here illegally for a vacation. But that would be bad for business, so it will never happen in our two-faced society.

        • 0 avatar
          mtmmo

          Again you said, “When has a physical wall every kept people out in the history of humanity? Under, over, around, they will still come.”

          Now stop embarrassing yourself and be thankful you got a free lesson today from multiple posters.

          • 0 avatar

            A tariff would worsen already not so great condtions in Mexico. Once the wall is built there would still be surges of people trying to get thru and seeing how there are large bodies of water on either end as well as to many mile to constantly patrol cost effectively. Yes you will get them coming thru and the worse you make it there the more people will try. Look at England they still have immigrants coming in illegally despite a massive physical border and several other countries to pass thru on the way there.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          “If you want to stop illegal immigration, get serious about punishing the people who HIRE illegal immigrants”

          There has been no enforcement of the immigration laws already on the books.

          But there are ways to get around them anyway like for instance:

          Foreign military bases in the US create their own jobs for foreign non-military spouses and dependents to work every day. And we did the same at US military bases overseas.

          Illegal aliens group together and create their own jobs in the US. And many expats living outside the US do the same in their foreign countries.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “There has been no enforcement of the immigration laws already on the books.”

            That’s not true, HDC…there has been a huge amount of enforcement. We spend billions of dollars a year on this, and expel hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants every year. But with tens of millions of them here, it’s not enough.

            My problem with “kick ’em all out” is that no one even has a remote idea how much it would cost, or what kind of bureaucracy it would require…or any idea of how it would work effectively without shredding the Fourteenth Amendment.

            My plan would be a) more border enforcement, and b) working on making the ones here into citizens. I just don’t see a cost-effective and/or constitutionally feasible option for dealing with tens of millions of people.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Wasn’t a big deal under Clinton Bush or Obama, but now that your desperate to deligitmize Trump it’s the end of the world.”

            Nonsense. Plenty of liberals would like to see better border protection, and I’m one of them. What I object to is magical thinking like “Mexico’s gonna pay for it.” What was the plan – park a B-2 over Mexico City and threaten to nuke it unless it paid up? Of course not. WE’RE gonna pay for it…in higher prices. That was the plan all along. No one with an IQ over room temperature ever thought that there would be a different outcome.

            But, hey, “you’re gonna pay to build the wall” doesn’t appeal much to right wing voters, does it?

            What I’d like to see is an immigration policy that actually addresses the problem. Want to evict all the illegal aliens? Let’s talk. Tell me how much it costs, and how we do it with tens of millions of people without eviscerating the Fourteenth Amendment. Show me a plan, and I’ll look at it. But don’t hand me this “Mexico’s gonna pay for the wall” nonsense as the cure-all, and then lie about who’s going to actually pay for it.

            Now, could THAT be the reason why people who didn’t vote for Trump are having a hard time lining up behind him? You tell me.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            FreedMike, I don’t think that “kick’m all out” is ever going to happen. But kicking out illegals with a criminal record FIRST is a great start.

            During my 6+ months in NW Europe we had a cop killed on active duty in the town I claim as my domicile, by an illegal alien Mexican gang member.

            And my State is a sanctuary state, even though we have a Republican Latina governor.

            Whatever the last administration did to export illegal aliens, it was not enough.

            We housed over 600 of them at the FLETC in Artesia, NM, and another 750 or so at the nearby AFB.

            They never left the US of A, but were shuffled around, many now near Brownsville, TX where my #3 son is a BP agent.

            But changes are coming, and many illegals have already left on their own accord before the dreaded knock on the door by the US Marshals.

            We lost our cook, and her husband our gardener, two of our Vaqueros and their families.

            These people had been with us for the better part of 20 years, but were always illegals.

          • 0 avatar
            SC5door

            Just like you bragged about before? Going over to the Home Depot and picking up some day laborers?

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            SC5door, times have changed. Not many illegal alien day-laborers hanging around anymore, looking for work.

            Those who were in my area have either moved on to the bigger cities like Albuquerque, Santa Fe and Las Cruces or out of the state altogether, on to another bigger Blue state.

            Ever since Trump got elected (Nov 8) there has been a steady outflow of illegals heading south of the border, down Mexico way.

        • 0 avatar
          GeneralMalaise

          Not either/or a or b. Use all tools to mitigate, including nailing the employers who break the law when hiring.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Yeah. That Great Wall worked out real well for China.

        • 0 avatar

          There have been lots of US politicians that thought a southern border barrier was a GREAT idea.

          In 1993 President Bill Clinton signed into law the Operations Safeguard and Hold the Line act, which actually built a barrier fence in Texas and Arizona. In 1994, Clinton signed the Operation Gatekeeper act which erected barrier fencing in southern California.

          In 2006, President George W. Bush signed into law the Secure Fence Act, a law produced by a Democrat-controlled House and Senate.

          And, last but not least, here’s Senator Hillary Clinton calling for border barriers and tough laws on immigration. The irony here is delicious indeed:

          https://youtu.be/Ezaw-g6TIQI

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      krhodes1 –
      Google trade deficits good or bad.

    • 0 avatar
      Master Baiter

      “When has a physical wall every kept people out in the history of humanity?”

      Vatican City?
      Berlin Wall?
      Israeli West Bank barrier?
      Wall around Obama’s new house in Washington?
      .
      .

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        America: Forget being a beacon of democracy to other nations. Now our role models are a scared Pope from the middle ages, Soviet era East Germany and apartheid Israel.

        MAGA.

        • 0 avatar
          krhodes1

          So true, and so sad. Well, that is the desire of slightly less than 1/2 the voting population anyway.

          I think the border should be basically open. But hire an illegal and you should be in some seriously deep crap.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Yea if only we could stop drug users from hiring drug dealers.
            Or illegals from kidnapping raping and killing Americans.

            Oh wait, that’s why a common sense wall has been proposed to fix this for the last 30 years. Wasn’t a big deal under Clinton Bush or Obama, but now that your desperate to deligitmize Trump it’s the end of the world.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            If there were someone who was familiar with trying to legitimize a president, it would be ‘birther’ Trump.

          • 0 avatar

            VoGo:

            There is a possibility that the “birthers” were correct. I’m not saying they were, but I can see how they could be.

            President Obama never produced an actual Birth Certificate. What he eventually produced was a Certificate Of Live Birth.

            If you don’t know what that is, let me explain.

            I was born and raised in rural Oklahoma. In rural Oklahoma it was common for country folk to give birth at home. At some later date, weeks later or even months later, they would go to the County Courthouse and record a Certificate Of Live Birth. Every child born in a hospital or delivered by an MD got an actual Birth Certificate but rural folk commonly got Certificates of Live Birth. They work the same legally but are somewhat dubious as to the place, date and time of birth.

            It is not completely outside the realm of possibility that Barry wasn’t born in Hawaii. Records are spotty and here’s just not enough data to say he definitely wasn’t born in Hawaii.

            I can see where the “birthers” are coming from though.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Congratulations. You’ve just proven that there is no intelligent life on the internet.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Gee, maybe America isn’t winning so much, given the dire need of so many tinfoil hat Trump supporters to continue to blame Mexicans, women, Jews and a black president for all their problems.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            If we had a 20% tax on stupid, there would be several TTAC posters filing for bankruptcy.

            A “certificate of live birth” is a fancy name for a birth certificate. Stop being an idiot.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Oh, Vogo, you’re just being a hater.

          • 0 avatar
            GeneralMalaise

            Same ol’ lefty circlejerk…

        • 0 avatar
          April S

          @WhiskeyRiver

          I think you are confusing those large ceremonial certificates that hospitals used to give out (the fancy ones with the infant’s inked footprint on the back). The “real” one has always been the one issued by the Department of Health (Certificate of Live Birth). You can’t even use those ceremonial ones when applying for a passport anymore.

          As far as not being born in a hospital for example my Mom was born on a farm (in Oklahoma). The Doctor attending would be the one to register the birth, and they would then either report the information at the County Courthouse or the local Department of Health.

    • 0 avatar
      Kendahl

      Low skill jobs will be replaced by automation. Good paying ones will be replaced first. In places where the minimum wage is set to rise to $15, fast food employers are exploring automation to reduce staff. Autonomous systems, linked to GPS, already are good enough to control tractors in farm fields. They are nearly good enough to control trucks on major highways. It’s already possible to order on line and pick up at a local warehouse. In time, the warehouses will be automated except for maintenance staff. High tech jobs will be safe, at least for a while, only because improved design tools are being used to develop more sophisticated systems rather than cut costs.

      Years ago, science fiction authors predicted replacement of human workers by robots. Most believed it would be a blessing. People would be happier being free to do what interested them rather than work for a living. I’m not so sure. In any case, it will become necessary to find a new way to distribute material goods. The current model, compensation in proportion to an employer/customer’s perception of productivity, will no longer work. Managing public attitudes during the transition will be a serious challenge. We already see resentment by workers against “freeloaders” and by the poor against the wealthy.

    • 0 avatar
      threeer

      Krhodes…you stumbled onto a point I’ve been trying to make for years. Sure, cheap good are great. Until a vast swath of the population is either unemployed (or under employed) and can’t afford them, regardless. I believe (maybe incorrectly, I don’t know) that a country that cannot provide for it’s self, soon becomes slave to those that can. While I’d gladly pay an extra 10% for the stuff I buy to assure that my friends, neighbors and family had work, it’s fairly obvious that many Americans don’t share that belief. Not everybody can (or should) be a corner-office employee. Somebody needs to BUILD that corner office. Somebody needs to build the furniture and communications systems that go into that office. Why can’t that be Americans? But then again, love of country and all went out the door decades ago and I guess I’m a walking dinosaur when it comes to that.

      Agree that the wall will do nothing to prevent or even stem folks from entering our country illegally. It’s a systemic issues that won’t be solved by spending $1B to build a symbolic scar across the Texas/Mexico border.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      “e Great Wall of the US has to be the dumbest idea ever spewed from a politician’s mouth ever though. When has a physical wall every kept people out in the history of humanity? Under, over, around, they will still come.”

      Ask Israel, or maybe China, they work pretty well to curb movement.

      So were you whining while Obama was building the border wall at the beginning of his term? The border wall is common sense it’s juvenile to act like this is some great travesty that no human has ever before wanted. It’s only because you believe the hysteria created by the media that this is somehow a bigger deal than it is.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Hey, all you pickup drivers with the Trump stickers…that next Silverado or Ram just got 20% more expensive.

    Well played, guys.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      FreedMike – most of Ram’s HD’s are hecho en Mexico. My ford has a USA VIN. Most of GM and Ford’s pickups are USA made. IIRC the PowerStroke is made in Mexico. All of FCA’s Hemi’s are also Mexican.

    • 0 avatar
      White Shadow

      And they’ll still cost 20% more because UAW.

      You lose either way.

      • 0 avatar
        TonyJZX

        Also unintended consequences… Mexican companies make a lot of parts for US made cars…

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          On the subject of unintended consequences… The new one is that since T-rump insulted the CIA and other security agencies, the tradition of yelling, “Mr.President get down” in a crisis has been replaced by the cry, “DONALD DUCK”.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I don’t recall getting a Mexican assembly vs UAW discount, this digs into OEM pockets more than yours. What may happen is the entire industry may collude to raise prices a bit to recoup the “loss” they never should have had in the first place.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Then prices still go up, 28. And those companies spent untold billions of dollars in shareholders’ capital building those plants.

        The idea that there won’t be consequences to a policy like this is silly, at best.

        Prediction: the tax ain’t gonna happen. It’s just posturing so that NAFTA can get re-negotiated. Maybe that isn’t such a bad thing. But there will be consequences to that too.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          @Freed

          I agree to both points but to this:

          “companies spent untold billions of dollars in shareholders’ capital building those plants.”

          NAFTA was a gigantic mistake which never should have been undertaken. I reiterate I see Mexico 2017 in a similar light to Cuba 1958. There is a good chance US corporate asset are going to be lost or destroyed in the fall/transition.

        • 0 avatar
          GeneralMalaise

          But… but… cars have never been more affordable…

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Seems to me people are set to pay a real high price for “sticking it to Hillary”, Dick…

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      And where are components made? I just looked at a few main looms for a U502 today; “MADE IN MEXICO”. There’s plenty of others that are, and several components made in China.

  • avatar
    jalop1991

    Did this article REALLY come right on the heels of Bark leaving?

  • avatar
    LS1Fan

    So Trump taxes Mexican goods by 20%.

    Mexican industries thus lay off staff,increasing civic poverty and unemployment.

    Jobless Mexicans with kids to feed will either flee north or join the Employer of Last Resort,AKA the drug trade. There ain’t a wall Trump can build that blocks how far someone will go to feed their families.

  • avatar
    April S

    Don’t be surprised to learn Canada will build a wall between them and the United States.

    Keep out those arrogant Americans.

  • avatar
    mikey

    No wall for us. A big a$$ wall through the middle of Lake Ontario ? To say nothing of the engineering challenges, it will screw up my view.

  • avatar
    April S

    @CallMeDick

    7 years and 51 weeks? The way he is throwing temper tantrums about not winning the popular vote or that more people went to Obama’s first Inauguration (or the Woman’s March) he’s going to go full apoplexy within a month.

    Six weeks tops.

    P.S. The only downside would be putting Pence in charge. If he had his way he would turn the United States into a Fundamentalist Christian Theocracy.

  • avatar
    White Shadow

    Trumptards amuse me.

  • avatar
    an innocent man

    I just hope this doesn’t drive up the price of heroin.

  • avatar
    highdesertcat

    “During the first week in office he delivered more than Obama in 8 years. The wall is here, jobs are coming back quite quickly and Mexico will pay for the wall. ”

    I’m not a Trump fan and didn’t vote for Trump, but I think that was his message to America during his campaign.

    Now that the guy has won by a very respectable electoral margin, why would anyone be surprised that he is making good on his promises?

    I’m thinking this is just the beginning, whatever was at the top of his fix-America list. More to come. More liberal ‘crats heads exploding in days/weeks/months to come. Stay tuned.

    Brace yourselves!

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    TIL Newsbot stirs the pot. Until such a thing happens through legislation or EO its not worthy of a byline.

  • avatar
    Charliej

    I would guess that Herr Trump does not think that other countries will limit US products sold in their countries in retaliation. Farmers in the midwest will be hurt when American grain is no longer welcome in many countries. Oh well, he can not just order a tariff, congress must approve any tariff and I wonder what they will do when their constituents start objecting.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I was in Prague in June 2016 and got into an interesting discussion with the limo driver on how in his broken English (I’m paraphrasing) “the US was forcing the Czechs to buy their GMO corn. We don’t want GMO”. 28 doesn’t want GMO either, maybe the President can aim his pen and phone at Bayer (who absorbed Monsanto)?

      Barry certainly whored for them:

      http://www.march-against-monsanto.com/president-obama-officially-sides-with-monsanto-signs-toothless-gmo-labeling-bill-into-law/

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        At the end of WWII, America sent much corn to Europe and as hungry as they were, they did not want corn. They considered corn cattle feed.

        Spam, OTOH, was a big hit!

  • avatar
    stuntmonkey

    I’ve heard it said that there is a saying in Mexico. “Poor Mexico, so far from God, yet so close to the United States.” We Canadians have similar sayings, but none so poignantly tragic.

  • avatar

    Congratulations everyone.

    With the exception of a few rational comments, the comments on this article, on the whole, is just about the most disgusting compilation of tripe I’ve read through in some time.

    So, you don’t like the new President. You could at least TRY to be civil rather than resort to all the name calling and schoolyard bully tactics.

    Speaking of bullies, a group as large as this meets the definition of a gang.

    There were some rules posted about this kind of thing before the election. Now that the election is over it’s anything goes?

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Well, the alt-left thought they had the election sewn up. The alt-right won instead. By a larger margin than anyone could have predicted.

      The alt-left has to work through their stages of grief. Right now they are still in denial. Some are beginning to show anger.

      I’m an Independent, not associated with any political party, but I can’t even begin to know how it must feel to be on this losing side.

      I mean, the world as we know it has come to an end. And every day there are more revelations and proclamations that just turn the whole alt-left universe upside down, causing their heads to explode.

      There is no coming to grips with it for the alt-left.

      • 0 avatar
        TonyJZX

        And here’s where I have a difficulty with people normalising
        ‘alt-right’.

        I’m no fan of alt-left either but that isnt a term that’s worn as a badge of honor unlike the right.

        The ‘alt-right’ is another term for white supremecy, the KKK, Nazi, anti LGBT, woman hating, hispanic hating, black hating, anti-islamic, anti semetics… hell, not even being white is enough, you can’t be a slav or that sort of eastern european.

        And of course its natural that those who think they are centrist or ‘have no bone in the fight’ have embraced the ‘alt-right’.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          “And of course its natural that those who think they are centrist or ‘have no bone in the fight’ have embraced the ‘alt-right’.”

          I think it is about all the American citizens who were looking for Hope and Change for their lives, and Trump was the messenger who swept them away.

          I didn’t vote for Trump. But I did vote.

          America is what it is, warts and all. It will always be divided. Has been since 1776.

          But America is also united when a common cause draws us together, like 9/11.

          For all those people who were praying for Hope and Change, it’s here.

          • 0 avatar
            quasimondo

            No hope, just change. And not in a good way.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            quasimondo, we’ll know at the mid-term election how much Hope and Change there was for the people who voted Trump into office.

            I’m not a Trump fan, but I can read the tea-leaves when union bosses start singing Trump’s praises.

            The union bosses backed Hillary. And now they’re singing Trump’s praises!?

            Even Hollywood couldn’t script something that insane. But I saw and heard it for myself on TV with my lyin’ eyes and lyin’ ears.

            That was jaw-dropping.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      This election and the public discourse it encouraged revealed that most of us are “lowest common denominator” thinkers. It’s easier to engage in personal attacks and other nonsense than to engage in real debate.

      That nonsense got us the truly terrible choices we had. You’d think that some would wake up to this, but apparently not.

    • 0 avatar
      Adam Tonge

      Damnit. I spend one full day in a meeting and apparently this is what happens.

  • avatar
    JimZ

    honest to God I cannot wait for the Boomers to just hurry up and die off already.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Did someone whiz in your Cheerios this morning?

      Don’t worry when the Fifth Turning happens those Z kids will overturn it all. Then assuming the planet isn’t destroyed the survivors will look to X to rebuild.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        f*** you.

        I live in a country controlled by 60-80 year old guys (and their sycophants) who act like a bunch of impetuous, possessive children. They truly believe this country “belongs” to them and them alone, and it’s their “NO GURLZ ALOUD” clubhouse. oh and those stinky brown kids from the next block can’t come over to play.

        that’s who’s in charge. A bunch of old white f***s who think “Leave it to Beaver” and “Ozzie and Harriet” are documentaries.

        • 0 avatar
          TonyJZX

          I understand the anger JimZ but keep it civil.

          I remmeber seeing a photo of GHW Bush or maybe it was GW Bush signing some accord for women’s pro choice thing 20yrs ago or whatever and I thought…”what the hell do these old white men know about womens’ health???”

          And yet here we are in 2017 with the orange pussy grabber in chief and womens champion Pence and Bannon signing some anti planned parenthood thing.

          Things havent changed have they? Women are still 2nd class citizens in the US.

          I fear that the old farts dying off isnt enough.

          We are our parents. The next gen who take over are the same. We thought the next gen would be more receptive to women and race issues and its clear, every generation is just as bad.

          • 0 avatar

            This old fart is a Vietnam Veteran. I fought for this, apparently. You people have no respect whatsoever.

            I wake up every morning and I go to work. I don’t have to but I like it. The last thing I do every morning before I leave the house is put an American Flag pin on my lapel. I’m that solid-as-hell neighbor you can count on when you have a problem. I do a lot of pro-bono work to help Veterans’s charities. My wife does laundry and sews for the homeless.

            I’m the old-fart hired gun network engineer large companies call to sort out multi-mixed-server environments they don’t have the talent to fix themselves.

            In summary, I’m contributing. I’m a tiny cog in the machine that serves to make everyone’s life better.

            And JimZ wants me to die.

          • 0 avatar
            Whittaker

            Orange is the new Black.

          • 0 avatar
            GeneralMalaise

            He wouldn’t know civil if it bit him on his behind.

            Hope your life improves, JimZ. I mean that.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          You’ve got some real problems, either work through them or they will consume you. Hate and self loathing are in no way healthy.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            There’s a lot of great advice being offered here, but I would ask that posters not overstep their place on TTAC. There is only one official “advice columnist” at TTAC, and he calls himself Bark M.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Maybe folks should not tell others to **** off then and display their dysfunction.

          • 0 avatar
            GeneralMalaise

            And then there’s vogo.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          I’m a boomer and I’m not offended by JimZ. We see too many policies aimed at the boomer crowd that hurt everyone else.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Uh…that’d be me you’re wishing death on, Jim.

      Tone it down, bro.

      • 0 avatar
        TonyJZX

        I understand the anger. I suspect JimZ is Mexican. If you have a leader of one country who can force another country’s currency to devaluate by 20% just with a Tweet, then its is fair that people are angry.

        And here’s where I put Americans in one deplorable basket. Its clear many of you have no love and indeed, hate for Mexico and Mexicans.

        Its it absolutely fair and fine for one country to exert so much negative influence over another country. Its is your manifest destiny to do this to another country, I mean its so common in the past as it is. Bananas, oil? Who cares.

        Today the enemy is Mexico. I have no issue with Mexicans and Hispanics expressing their anger.

        Americans have their enemy of this cycle and its Mexico.

        Even more telling is the senior Americans getting upset in their Depends about this. Wow.

        Do Mexicans have a beef with the avg. American? Probably not. Do they have a beef with a large section of the American population who wants the Mexico people and economy to wither and die? For sure. And yet its the fragile white male who is aggreived. Its precious.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          I don’t know whether Jim is Mexican or Macedonian, or a recent immigrant from Romulus…but you don’t wish death on someone because of his birth date.

          • 0 avatar
            TonyJZX

            This is just words on a screen. I am uncertain why men of a certain age, ex military men no less, are so upset about this.

            Who is Jim? Who cares? I’m not a precious flower. All I know is that in all probability, all things being equal, the old will die before the young.

            Unless of course the policies of the US govt. accelerates that of people it deems to be the enemy… today its Mexico, maybe it’ll be women or black males tomorrow.

            I hope you fragile white men live long, clearly they are the new minorities.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

            And wishing someone would hurry up and die is unjust. Want to make this about white versus black? OK, then…Google that quote and tell the skin color of the man who said it.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      Interesting, us 20-40 Y.O.s at the inauguration feel the same, you old guys got us 8 years of Obama.

      Those ideals on the left correlate with what we have in the house and senate, older career politicians that have lost sight of what actual Americans want. I don’t see the average age of democrats going down anytime soon.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Look at this! Someone actually did attend the inauguration. The MSM were saying nobody showed up – all Americans were away helping Chicagoans murder eath other, helping Chelsea Manning with her speech and supporting illegal aliens with illegal voting for Hillary Clinton.

        • 0 avatar
          GeneralMalaise

          This is sort of like Obama’s “dense-pack strategy” for scandals, except that Obama deployed it with scandals, and Trump is deploying it with presidential action.

          https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/255712/

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          Well I’m ready to see this country finally move into the 21st century where identity politics are things of the past and landing on Mars and sending satellites to Alpha Centauri is our future.
          I want progress that advances humanity, not fighting some stupid religious extremist in a desert in the Middle East for the next 100 years for them to run a pipeline to Europe.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            You’d be impressed with the progress Israeli scientists have made to make that desert arable and habitable.

    • 0 avatar
      tresmonos

      All you asshats are taking his comment out of context. He can’t wait until outdated social views are extinct.

      Pull the sticks out of your collective ass.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    Mexico was our number 4 import partner for oil in 2016 behind Canada (and it wasn’t even close), Saudi Arabia (about 40% of what was imported from Canada), and Venezuela.

    So ironically a 20% import tax on crude oil from Mexico would almost certainly funnel more money to Middle Eastern nations with strong ties to Daesh, or Venezuelan dictators.

    We get a small amount of oil from Russia, but port locations both outbound and inbound make it prohibitive to go large scale.

    As for Mexico, it’s a no brainer, they’d sell to China in a heartbeat.

    No matter what, it means higher prices at the pump.

    Submitted with no further comment.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I doubt commodities will be included, will be one of those:

      20% tax on imports*

      *trade goods and other assembled products

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        Really hard tellin’ at this point.

        There are no specifics.

        There are just feelers out there to see what economic carnage would be turned up by the alt-left.

        He’s gonna do what he’s gonna do. The country is just along for the ride.

        Elections have consequences.

        • 0 avatar
          TonyJZX

          Trump himself said many times that he’s a fan of the ‘hard reset’.

          I’m obviously not a billionaire like him but I’m insulated from whatever happens just like many people here.

          Maybe the US has to hit rock bottom before it can see daylight. There are going to be victims in the US and in countries it touches (so what else is new). It just aint going to be me and many others who have enough resources and/or are in neutral countries.

          Trump has just moved for sanctions against Russia to be removed.

          Its laughable at this point.

          Wasnt America at war with Nazis and then the Russians?

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Many of the “old garde” is insulated from whatever happens during Trump.

            My concern is to strictly hold on to my acquired and accumulated assets that I earned over my lifetime.

            (That is to say that the young’ns, those now under 55, are going to bear the brunt of these changes. Among them my four fantastic children.)

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      It’d have to get through Congress if it’s intended to be permanent.

      No way in heck Paul Ryan is going to put it up for a vote.

  • avatar
    WheelMcCoy

    Obama took out Osama Bin Laden, helped save the auto industry, renewed the START treaty with Russia, passed Obama Care, struck a deal with Iran, and recognizes climate change is real… all with a hostile Congress and Senate.

    The wall is a waste of time and money, and a distraction from real issues. From 2009-2014, there have been more Mexicans leaving the U.S. than coming in. See Pew Research:
    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

    One thing Trump did that I agree with: ditch the TPP. Every thing else he says and does either makes me laugh or scares the $h*t out of me.

    • 0 avatar
      ect

      Ditching the TPP, as you put it, is a strategic blunder and a total gift to China, which will now expand its own economic influence in APAC and thereby weaken US strategic and economic interests.

      Actually getting a TPP agreement was a huge achievement, given the vastly contradictory interests of many of the parties. Now that it’s been accomplished, walking away from it is sheer stupidity.

      • 0 avatar
        WheelMcCoy

        The TPP was not well explained to the public, possibly out of concern they won’t like it, or that they won’t understand it. Add that it was fast-tracked made me suspicious. That it had bi-partisan support indicated that TPP benefited political donors more than the people.

        Yes, America will cede influence in the Pacific. Possibly, consumer prices will rise, but America needs to get out of the mindset that cheap products are the only goal.

        Electing Trump is the real gift to China. As he withdraws from the world, it will create a vacuum. Then it’s up to China to step up. Not so much a gift as it as an opportunity, China will still have to work at it.

    • 0 avatar
      GeneralMalaise

      “helped save the auto industry, renewed the START treaty with Russia, passed Obama Care, struck a deal with Iran, and recognizes climate change is real… all with a hostile Congress and Senate.”

      Overwhelmingly rejected by the voters, as indicated by the enormous losses Democrats have suffered over the course of his two terms.

  • avatar
    ajla

    So how long until Vicente Fox suffers a sudden “heart attack”?

  • avatar
    zip94513

    Ford makes 300,000 Fusions yearly in Mexico. The tax would lead Ford to discontinue the model.

  • avatar
    runs_on_h8raide

    SO many misinformed ideologues posting. I can see the brainwashing has been thorough. Most of you have much to learn. We dodged a MAJOR bullet when Hildog lost. MAJOR! Like…WWIII major. I don’t think you realize how evil her and her conglomeration of criminals and backers are. Not a clue.

    Trump is a straight-up American and a leader. He’s leading now for the common American. So far he’s doing exactly what he said he was going to be doing, which is way more than any politician for the past 40 years can say. He is for American interests, and that is the way it should be. The facts are this…NAFTA did destroy the American middle class. You can’t argue your way around it. It did. It did exactly what it was supposed to do. There are those in the shadows that wanted that… weaker, and poorer America, for a much grander plan. Trump is huge speedbump to their machinations, and one day, you all will be grateful for it.

    He is also right to criticize NATO. We are paying for European defense, essentially. How’s that working out for us? They get nice roads and infrastructure and better education and healthcare, and we in return, get to pay for it. Think about that! We are paying for it as taxpayers since they don’t have to pay for defense! That’s a fact. You can’t spin it.

    Trump also doesn’t want war. He is right to seek friendship and agreements with Russia. Russia has more in common with America when you look at tradition and history (outside of the period from the start of the communist jewish led Bolshevik persecution of Russian Christians and the decades of communism after that).

    Here is another thing. When you turn off your TV and start thinking logically and start peeling back the onion, you will find a horrid and vile truth…your government and its leaders and aparatchiks are corrupt beyond measure and are evil beyond measure. Pizzagate is real. Sex trafficking is real. The pedophilia rings are real. Organ harvesting is real. These are sick and depraved people in-charge. Trump is not any of those, so how dare you critize him, when he knows what he is against…traitors. Drain the swamp is slogan for good reason. You all watch and learn, instead of spewing at the mouth, most of you don’t have a friggin’ clue.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/georgwebb

    That’s the tip of the iceberg.

    • 0 avatar
      mtmmo

      Hear that sound coming your way? That’s the TTAC Sturmabteilung coming for you. They’re easy to spot as they’re all proudly wearing their Brownshirts. Good luck.

    • 0 avatar
      Zykotec

      I think being brainwashed by a massively huge international conspiracy going back several decades is not quite as bad as being brainwashed by a tiny group of tinfoilhatwearing asswipes who managed to upload something to Youtube in between zeisures.
      It’s quite amazing that they even dare going on the internet to post considering that some ‘communist lizard hackers’ could probably easily eat their souls through their internet connections.

      I’ll toss a single bone though, NATO actually akcnowledges that they could use more of their own tax money to protect themselves against enemies of the US, and even if it’s 25-30 years too late, it’s time to properly end the cold war.
      I still doubt Putin and Trump could end it, but it would be about time.

      (PS, I’m not a fan of Hillary either)

      • 0 avatar
        TonyJZX

        I consider myself a military historian/enthusiast what have you. This probably isnt a popular thing to admit to.

        However I believe the US is in a one man race by itself and they have themselves to blame.

        If America wants to pull out of NATO…. good. Let the EU and Japan and Taiwan and South Korea defend themselves.

        There should be massive cuts in US military spending but it aint happening. There’s cuts to every other dept. but never military.

        Instead the US has bases all over the world. What’s it for? The benefit of the host countries or the US?

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          If you fancy yourself as being an historian, then you should know what happens when Europeans are given the power to determine their own destinies.

          Pulling out of NATO would be utterly stupid for the United States. The last things that Americans should want are to have the Germans and Russians running the show. If it costs the US some money to prevent those outcomes, then so be it.

          • 0 avatar
            TonyJZX

            The Germans are running Europe. The Russians are running the White House.

            I also have a lot more faith in Europe than America right now. The less influence America has on the world the better. I also have no faith that America will support Article 5 but then I doubt the EU will pull together but in the end… so what… I can neither stop or get involved in the US slash EU slash Nato mess.

            Good luck to you all over the next 4 yrs.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            The only thing that is worse than the US running the world is leaving the job to someone else (although the next three years and fifty-one weeks may prove to be an exception.)

          • 0 avatar
            APaGttH

            …If you fancy yourself as being an historian, then you should know what happens when Europeans are given the power to determine their own destinies.

            Pulling out of NATO would be utterly stupid for the United States. The last things that Americans should want are to have the Germans and Russians running the show. If it costs the US some money to prevent those outcomes, then so be it…

            One-million-percent agreed. The history is crystal clear, and extends not decades but centuries.

            We may be seeing a needed shift in power systems, but the foundations of connected nations, free trade, and mutually assured destruction has kept the planet unprecedentedly peaceful for the last 70 to 75 years.

            If you break down the interconnected trade into isolationism, and break down the mutual aid and cooperation, you have a lot of nations with a lot of Cold War weaponry no longer working together on a planet with a massive refugee crisis and shrinking resources.

            What could possibly go wrong???

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          The US has bases all over the world to protect its own interests. They aren’t there to protect the locals unless it benefits them. The US has established itself as an empire. Post WWII combined with the cold war allowed them to do it without having to invade anyone. They have destabilized regimes and installed puppets in various countries over the years. Those have eventually come back to haunt the USA. NATO has been good for the USA. The USA setting itself as the default currency and financial Super Power has given it considerable influence. The USA has made a mess of a lot of things but unfortunately, all of the alternatives I see would be worse for everyone including the USA.

          • 0 avatar

            While I disagree with many of the conflicts we have gotten into over the years, BC is correct. By in large our overseas bases and world police behavior has made us a more powerful figure in the world then we would be without. And yes by in large these are serving our interest in general.
            Plus if war were actually to break out our foreign presence guarantees the fight won;t come to our shores (other then nuclear attack but if that happens we have other issues).

            Now this does not mean our allies should rely as heavily as they do on us for defense but there are reasons.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @mopar4wd – thanks.

    • 0 avatar
      30-mile fetch

      “I can see the brainwashing has been thorough…Trump is a straight-up American and a leader…He’s leading now for the common American…how dare you criticize him…Pizzagate is real”

      Ok, you don’t get to accuse *anyone* of being brainwashed for quite a while. And that’s not a statement in support of Clinton or liberalism or Democrats. That’s a statement against political rabies.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        We seem to have several Trump University alumni posting here. Obviously, the program had low standards.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          …and obviously the grads all have to take a class in Goebbels 101, to wit: “communist jewish led Bolshevik persecution of Russian Christians and the decades of communism after that”…

          Blaming Jews for communism was Play #1 in the Nazi Playbook. Guess that’s back too.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Honestly, that poster could be working at a Russian spam/propaganda/fake news farm.

            The Russian government is not our friend. If you see anyone heavily pushing garbage to the contrary on the internet, then don’t be surprised if it leads back to an operation in Samara or St. Petersburg.

        • 0 avatar
          GeneralMalaise

          What we have here is an ongoing meltdown of the left. Rave on.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Was there some kind of secret signal that went out to every incel alt right loser to gather at TTAC today? I am picturing something like the bat signal, except it’s a swastika which can magically penetrate deep into any sad old mother’s basement.

          • 0 avatar
            GeneralMalaise

            Mince away, vogo. It’s entertaining.

      • 0 avatar

        runs_on_h8raide:

        You, sir, are a GREAT AMERICAN!

        Freedom and Whiskey!

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Did you read his post, Whiskey?

          He blamed communism on “the Jews.” That’shistorical nonsense, and it’s a line straight out of “Mein Kampf” to boot. That’s being a “great American”?

          If Trump supporters like you don’t want to be known as haters, then I’d suggest not cozying up to them.

          Interested in your thoughts on your new drinking buddy…

          • 0 avatar

            Thanks for making me laugh.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Well, Whiskey, considering that the “Jews started communism” BS was one of the reasons six million Jews – and that includes the entirety of my father’s side of the family – ended up dead, you’ll pardon me if I don’t see much humor in it.

            Neither should you.

            What’s more deplorable – repeating lines right out of “Mein Kampf,” or congratulating someone for doing it? You tell me. Either way, Hillary was right. Deplorable.

          • 0 avatar
            30-mile fetch

            He’s not reachable, Mike. I’ve seen a number of his assertions here disassembled quite thoroughly and he simply ignores it, recedes, and surfaces again elsewhere.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            We need the ignore button, 30.

            I’m sorry, someone is NOT coming on any thread this Jew’s on and toasting some fool who quotes “Mein Kampf.” I mean, what’s he think – people can ignore that?

            To keep this site civil, I’d rather just ignore these morons. Now, the question is whether that’d work.

          • 0 avatar

            I’m not laughing about anything to do with Jews and their persecution.

            What makes me laugh is how easy is is to push your buttons and how predictable your response is.

            Your default position is almost always… Hate.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            So, to sum up:
            1) I’m a Jew, so my buttons get pushed when someone’s a big enough a-hole to raise a hearty toast to folks who quote “Mein Kampf”…and then gets amused when I get mad about it. Well, yeah, Einstein, if you go around buddying up to people who quote “Mein Kampf,” you’re gonna get some push back from a Jew. But I suspect you knew that already, didn’t you?

            2) Your buttons get pushed when you get called on this a-hole behavior.

            Makes you wonder who the real hater is, doesn’t it?

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            WhiskeyRiver fundamentally does not understand why people insist on calling him out for the bigoted [email protected] he writes.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            I understand, VoGo.

            It’s called “attention-seeking.” Well, he got it. Of course, I can’t fathom the bizarre psychology of someone who goes around hacking people off for no good reason so they’ll pay attention to him. Sad, really.

            But that’s OK, I’m more than happy to help him achieve fulfillment of his “I’m oppressed” fantasy. I’m all about his happiness.

          • 0 avatar
            30-mile fetch

            I was skimming that rant and didn’t notice the Jewish comment on first read. You’ve got a right to be incensed.

            Yeah, Whiskey, this isn’t a partisan Trump/anti-Trump thing. This is a sane vs. nuthouse thing. You’d do better to just distance yourself from that kind of trash rather than going after Mike as a distraction to the big thumbs up you gave to that comment:

            “communist jewish led Bolshevik persecution of Russian Christians”

            followed by:

            “You, sir, are a GREAT AMERICAN!
            Freedom and whiskey!”

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            MAGA

            ‘M’ake ‘A’ssholes ‘G’reat ‘A’gain

          • 0 avatar
            GeneralMalaise

            Mid-morning/early afternoon lefty circlejerk.

    • 0 avatar
      notapreppie

      @runs_on_h8raide
      I can’t tell if you’re trolling or really that far down the rabbit hole…

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        If he’s quoting “Mein Kampf” and babbling about the International Jew Communist Conspiracy, he’s not only down the rabbit hole, he’s the mayor of Underground-Rabbit-Town.

  • avatar
    stevelovescars

    The article seems to grossly oversimplify the situation. It isn’t only small cheap cars… don’t a huge percentage of the parts used to assemble cars in the US also come from Mexico? Won’t this raise the cost of nearly every model for sale in the US and those built in the US for export?

    Seems Trump wants to find the most expensive and least effective solution (a Great Wall) to a nonexistent problem (illegal immigration from Mexico which has been essentially net zero under Obama if one looks at pesky data) and will create more illegal immigration by making it harder for Mexicans to find good work in Mexico and will likely create a trade war which will cost American jobs in the process.

    • 0 avatar
      Sceptic

      Wall is just a start. Restoring the rule of law, deporting the illegal immigrants is the next step. It’s bad for the US when laws are not respected and some groups of people are allowed to flout the laws.

      • 0 avatar
        stevelovescars

        No one is flouting the law. Net illegal immigration from Mexico has been negative since the beginning of the Obama administration. Many on the left had been referring to him as the “deporter in Chief” for years. The people flouting the laws are those employing illegal immigrants… like farmers and factory owners who all seem to vote Republican… thus the resistance to comprehensive immigration reform which would force these employers to pay minimum wage and give protection to these guest workers who today have none. It would allow the government to collect taxes from them… but that would be logical.

      • 0 avatar
        notapreppie

        If you only look at one metric, sure. But you have to look at the country as a whole and I’m not convinced that what is gained in respect for the law will offset what is lost in a large chunk of everything being 20% more expensive.

  • avatar
    Syke

    OK, so we put a 20% tariff on all Mexican goods. In retaliation, Mexico puts a 20% tariff on all imported American goods (I believe, historically, that’s how trade war policies usually work out).

    Now, how do we deal with our exports being hurt? That strikes me as a bigger problem than more expensive Corona, etc.

    • 0 avatar
      heavy handle

      Don’t forget that it will spread. This hurts American exports everywhere. It’s the best news ever for Airbus, and the worse for Boeing.

      In short, it’s a new tax to be paid by people who spend most of their income on food and household supplies (rich people get huge tax breaks to make-up for slightly more expensive food). Then it spreads to anybody who works for a company with significant exports. Those people lose their jobs, and then the people who depend on their spending also lose jobs.

      It’s just a classic trade war. Why learn about it in school when you can live it?

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Don’t dream it…be it!

        Oy…

      • 0 avatar
        TonyJZX

        I dont think they care too much about ‘unintended consequences’ too much.

        If it tanks Ford GM VAG etc. – who cares, they aint directly in the pocket of Trump.

        Follow the money. Trump is ostensibly in construction. In his position, he is able to direct the $20, $25, $30 billion spent on this wall… how much is likely to flow back to him or his family or cronies? Its must be heaps.

        We all know Trump has millions in Russian loans. Releasing $700 billion in oil revenue in the next year by getting rid of Russian sanctions goes a lot to turning this loans into profit… especially since his cronies are big into Russian oil companies.

        Follow the money…it goes back to Trump. And the American taxpayer will pay for it. Its wonderful, its genius, its great to be able to sit back with the popcorn and scotch and watch this unfold.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          You know your leftists overlords dropped the Russia shtick since it didn’t do anything. Maybe your memo didn’t come through.

          I don’t even understand what your end goal is, none of these attacks have had any effect on Trump or his supporters. The only net effect I’ve seen it to make the left increasingly violent, maybe that’s your goal. Whatever, felony rioting charges removes your right to vote anyhow.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “I don’t even understand what your end goal is, none of these attacks have had any effect on Trump or his supporters. ”

            To restate the obvious: a foreign government with thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at us and an unfortunate history of invading its’ neighbors for the sheer f**k of it interfered in our election.

            And this has not “had any effect on Trump or his supporters.”

            And then the Trump supporters wonder why the non supporters keep bringing it up.

            I’ll give you a hint: try channeling Ronald Reagan and ask yourself what HE would think about Putin screwing with our elections.

            (Shakes head…)

          • 0 avatar
            notapreppie

            @Hummer

            “Whatever, felony rioting charges removes your right to vote anyhow.”

            Behold, fascism!

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “I don’t even understand what your end goal is, none of these attacks have had any effect on Trump or his supporters.”

            Silence is not an option.

            We have seen the beast’s true colours.

            All of the racism, sexism, homophobia, and Xenophobia among other things that has been festering under the surface in now front and centre. Look through this thread and the others lately including the banned Bark Editorial.

            The “deplorables” have a voice and prefer the past. A past where Gays were still in the closet, blacks rode at the back of the bus, women couldn’t vote and immigrants shoveled sh!t and scrubbed toilets.

            Welcome to the rebirth of the “good old days”.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Sure, but simply put there’s no evidence to support that a foreign government interfered to get Trump elected. Plenty of evidence of the Middle East sending large sums of money to Hillary but only he said she said without actual sources in Trumps case.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Whom to believe, whom to believe,…400 lb. on his couch in North Carolina, or the CIA and every credible news source. Tough one.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Preppie,
            Obama increased the punishment against rioters so yes, we can definately agree that some level of fascism is involved.
            However, anyone threatening the lives of a countries citizens, destroying a working class immigrants limo, breaking windows reminscient of a certain time in history – has mental issues that need addressing, and we certainly don’t need these people putting like minded people in positions of power.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Lou, yes we have seen the beasts true colors and yes they were in Barks thread. The man posted sources for every point he made. He made a fact based article and the leftist in this community tore him limb to limb for speaking the truth. It’s truly a sad state of affairs when people wish ill harm on people who speak truth.

            Just like the so called women’s march that refused to allow pro-life and trans women from marching. Or any person that speaks in support of Trump, race always comes up in every situation. The hatred that this country has due to leftist extremist haven’t been this bad since Reagan was elected.

            If your a gay individual that has conservative beliefs you will be disowned by the left, derided, and bashed.
            Truly who is living in the past?

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Apostrophes are for leftists?

            I voted for Trump so progressive traditions like education and grammar no longer apply.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “The man posted sources for every point he made”

            Really?

            The postmortem autopsy of the election outlined who voted for Trump but it did not explain why. Further dissection points to a persistent feeling among the “white uneducated middle class” that things are worse now than in the past. They tend to cite “entitlement” of women, minorities, immigrants as part of the problem. They also blame foreigners and the “entitled” as a reason for lost jobs.
            Bark’s Editorial played to many of those typical fears/anxieties of the “white uneducated middle class”.
            I do agree that the “Women’s protest” should have included all women.

            Is Bark’s hatred more valid than that of the left?

            There is hatred on both sides my friend. It will consume us all.

          • 0 avatar
            GeneralMalaise

            “The “deplorables” have a voice and prefer the past. A past where Gays were still in the closet, blacks rode at the back of the bus, women couldn’t vote and immigrants shoveled sh!t and scrubbed toilets.

            Welcome to the rebirth of the “good old days”.”

            That is a vile and slanderous lie. You should feel a sense of shame and embarrassment, but leftwingers don’t embarrass easy.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “It will consume us all.”

            it already has. myself included.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “That is a vile and slanderous lie. You should feel a sense of shame and embarrassment, but leftwingers don’t embarrass easy.”

            http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/macomb-county/2017/01/16/audio-recordings/96637738/

            These are the people in charge.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    We only need to wall off the corruption. Illegal aliens come here because hire them and that’s the bigger crime. Billions in cash keeps flowing to DC and the Feds/ICE can’t touch (raid) illegals working the diaries, picking the fruit, washing the dishes, digging the ditches, and generally shoveling the sh!t.

    The flow of illegals won’t stop for a silly little wall. Nor will the flow of elicit drugs. It’s a stupid means of chasing our own tail, except the most stupid among us feel like something is finally being done.

    The import tax is another thing that appeals to the lowest common denominator. Instant gratification for long term failure.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      that’s what the 70-year-old babies in charge want. instant gratification. who cares what happens later?

    • 0 avatar
      Sceptic

      Very true that every member of society must watch out for illegals and report all businesses that hire them to LLE/ICE/DHS. There must be a concerted effort. Those who aid and abate the criminals must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Law enforcement quite often turns a blind eye to reports of illegals. Enough said.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Don’t stop there. If someone does not come to a full and complete stop at the local stop sign, immediately call 911. If you see someone doing 66 in a 65, alert the highway patrol. And if someone runs a red light, use your right to make a citizen’s arrest.

        We either have laws in this country, or we don’t.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        Follow the lobby dollars. Industries hire them by the tens of thousands. Report them all you want, their illegal workforces are untouchable. They’ve paid to play. Don’t waste your time calling ICE/DHS/ETC.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Exactly, Mike. Remember Tom Tancredo’s one man anti-illegal jihad? Turns out he hired a company to finish his basement that was using illegal labor. Did he turn them in? Nope.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        ” Law enforcement quite often turns a blind eye to reports of illegals. Enough said.”

        Yeah, they do. Why? Let’s say you’re a cop in Chicago. You know, Chicago, which Twitter Duce has said is beyond crime-ridden, and needs all the cop manpower it can get? But I’m getting ahead of myself. Let’s get back to you being a cop in Chicago. And you see some guy who you *think* might be an illegal alien, and let’s say he’s digging a ditch. And right as he notices that dude, he also notices a guy selling crack. And then he notices that a car just ran a red light, and is weaving down the street at 70 mph.

        Now, Mr. Law ‘N Order, who would you like that cop to make best use of your tax money – the ditch digger, or the people who are actually threatening public safety?

        THIS is the reason for “sanctuary cities,” fool…cops have enough violent, dangerous criminals to deal with it as it is, and the cities don’t have enough money to go hire God only knows how many cops for the “illegal immigrant force”.

        Now, if you’d like to pay more property taxes, maybe these cities can hire a bunch more cops, and I’m sure they’ll be glad to go chase ditch-diggers, janitors, burger flippers and maids all the live long day.

        You’re OK with property higher taxes…right?

        Yeah, didn’t think so.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          Yep. They keep trying to tell us the problem is at the border.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            And a great deal of the problem IS at the border.

            But the anti-immigrant cranks who make this their one and only political issue ignore everything else. Why? Because they’re not focused on solving the problem. They’re focused on being xenophobic. Thus, the wall, and “kick ’em all out.”

            Stuff that actually might make a dent, like drying up the jobs for illegal workers, doesn’t appeal to them. Sad but true.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          No, sanctuary cities are for the benefit of cheap labor. The negatives of sanctuary city policy are written off as racist rants, even when those supposed racists cite human trafficking, people living in garages, and gang problems like MS-13.

          Take a few minutes and look up what Jamiel Shaw’s parents have to say and then tell me how great sanctuary city policy is.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Could part of the reason why sanctuary cities exist be that cities don’t have the resources to have cops acting as everyday cops AND immigration cops, to, jkross?

            I think that’s the basis.

            And if you have a way for the cops to do their everyday job, AND add “immigration cop” to their to-do list, and do it all without a) impacting their normal duties, and b) hiring more cops, which will cost taxpayers more, I do want to hear it.

            I’d say if Trump wants this, then fine. Here’s a reasonable course of action – find out how much money it would cost for cities to add “immigration cops” to their payrolls, and have the feds fund it 100%. Some people might still disagree with that, but it’s a proposal that’s worth talking about. “Build a wall and Mexico pays for it” is nothing but hot, stupid air.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            LAPD is legally barred from asking if someone is in the US illegally (Special Order #40). Think about that…. they can’t even ask the question. That is part of sanctuary city mentality.

            No one is asking the cops to do ICE duty. The feds need to assume that responsibility. I’m with you on the wall… it’s little more than PR and seems like an incredible waste of money, but the broader point of immigration control needs to be addressed, whether it’s at the Southern border, the airports or people overstaying visas.

            We should be consistently enforcing labor laws and hold employers accountable for hiring those not legally able to work in the US.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            ‘No one is asking the cops to do ICE duty. ”

            Actually, when you have cops doing this, you pretty much are. As I understand it, a cop would have to do a full arrest and “take the suspect in,” or babysit the suspect and wait for the immigration folks to show up. Either way, it’s pretty clear to me that either task takes that cop away from his or her normal duties. I don’t see how that doesn’t impact crime.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            “Either way, it’s pretty clear to me that either task takes that cop away from his or her normal duties.”

            If a cop arrests and books someone because the cop believes a crime was committed, that IS their job. It’s up to the courts to determine guilt, but a cop isn’t babysitting the suspect any longer if they’re from Cancun or Cincinnati.

            The suspect/illegal alien would be sitting in a jail cell awaiting either a trial or a hand off to ICE. Unless they’re from a sanctuary city, in which case they may just be released.

            Did you search Jamiel Shaw?

      • 0 avatar
        bikegoesbaa

        Interesting idea, here’s the 1850 version:

        “Very true that every member of society must watch out for (ESCAPED SLAVES) and report all businesses that hire them. There must be a concerted effort. Those who aid and abate (ESCAPED SLAVES) must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Law enforcement quite often turns a blind eye to reports of (ESCAPED SLAVES). Enough said.”

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Sceptic has the wrong German symbol in his avatar.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          I didn’t know there was a particular German symbol for “dunce”, PCH.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I’m referring to that logo that was all the rage during much of the 1930s, of course.

            With a mentality like that, he would have been a terrific Gestapo agent. Turning in your neighbors and feeling good about yourself for doing it is remarkable — they have no shame at all.

            And these geniuses ought to use the wonders of Google to look at the border fence that we already have. (Hint: It’s not exactly a picket fence.) It’s amazing how dumb people work so very hard to stay that way.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Meh, I’m not going to go all Godwin on the guy. People can call the cops all they want on their neighbors as it is. The difference between us and Nazi Germany is that we have the Fourteenth Amendment, whereas the accused just disappeared at the hands of the Gestapo.

            Now, someone starts blaming communism on “the Jews,” that’s when you start bringing out the goose stepper label. And certain folks are just too dumb, or uneducated, to know where that kind of thing leads…or they’re willing to ignore that in their quest to “stick it to the libs,” or whatever else pass as “conservatism” to them.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I’m not retracting that comment.

            The guy obviously wants a society in which we are informing on each other, which is what totalitarians want. The dupes take pride in selling their neighbors down the river and in their lack of compassion. The analogy is completely appropriate.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Not asking you to retract anything, PCH, and you’re right to be concerned. But I don’t use the Nazi label until I see actual Nazi thinking, and calling the authorities when you see something suspicious isn’t necessarily Nazi-esque.

            Now, what WOULD be Nazi-esque? Well, that’d look like people being hauled off with no charges or due process. Far as I can tell, that’s not happening. But you’re right to be vigilant and observant.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            You think that the jack boot brigade in the comments section gives a fig about due process?

            Let’s get real. These are the clowns who think that they had a mandate by coming in second place. They have no dignity or shame or second thoughts about their war on anyone who isn’t like them.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Whether they do or not is irrelevant, PCH…the fact is that three posters on TTAC aren’t going to repeal the Fourteenth Amendment.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            No, they’ll dance a jig if and when the 14th amendment (and, for that matter, Amendments 4-6) are violated if it serves their ends.

            Your eagerness to believe that “both sides do it” even though they don’t is blinding you from some fairly obvious stuff.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            I’m sure they will, PCH. But it’s not gonna happen. The Fourteenth ain’t going anywhere.

            “Your eagerness to believe that “both sides do it” even though they don’t is blinding you from some fairly obvious stuff.”

            Interesting idea. But I’m not into which side is right and which is wrong. I’m into using the best ideas from anywhere and solving problems. I’m not arrogant enough to think that my liberal outlook offers a solution for every problem that everyone’s gonna buy into.

            Believing the worst about people you don’t agree with politically is the reason we’re in the horrid situation we’re in now.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            “I’m not into which side is right and which is wrong.”

            Right. And that’s a tremendous mistake.

            We are allowing wannabe fascist dunderheads to drown out the center-right. We need a conservative political wing as part of a balanced system with give and take, but that wing needs to be reasonable.

            The Germans have figured this out. One of the primary missions of their center-right party (Merkel’s Christian Democrats) is to marginalize the hard right, as the rise of the Nazis came largely from the center-right’s inability to contain them. It’s a worthy and necessary goal — crazy people should not be participating in the political process, period.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            We’re not allowing anything to happen to the center-right, PCH. The center-right’s allowing it to happen to itself. It’s a strictly consensual f**king. And they’re getting something out of it.

            What do you propose those of us who aren’t in the center-right do?

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I’ve already told you what to do: Drop this bogus “both sides do it” routine. Call out the extremists for being extremists instead of pretending that they are just another part of a big happy system.

            Guys like Sceptic sound as if they are ready for the Fuhrer. Instead of denying the obvious, reject what he is saying.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            That’s exactly what I’m doing. Have you not seen me calling people out?

            Do I call them hypocritical? Definitely. Anti-American? Quite possibly. But as someone whose family actually suffered at the hands of Nazis…I’m not going to call them that unless I see the actual goose stepping. Does calling the authorities when you suspect wrongdoing make you a goose stepper? If so, then I guess I have to don my jackboots, because I’ve done it, and I’ve done it to my neighbors.

            And there are a fair number of actual goose stepper types in the alt-right. That “h8terade” guy, who parroted actual Nazi propaganda, is one. He was called on it in no uncertain terms.

            There is a difference between uneducated foolishness and actual evil intent. You know it when you see it. All I’m saying is that you label it appropriately. All you do otherwise is just cause a ruckus…and a ruckus rarely solves anything.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            The guy is eager to round up people. I’m not sure how much more obvious that he needs to be about it for you to see him exactly for what he is.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Believe me, I’ll stand against anyone who calls for Dachau-style roundups of Mexicans…all day, every day.

            If this guy goes there, then he’ll get it from me with two smoking verbal barrels. I just haven’t seen the person in question do it, at least explicitly.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Look, the guy not only wants to round up the illegal aliens, but he also wants to round up everyone else who isn’t calling the cops when they spot one.

            I’m not sure how much clearer that he needs to be. He’s a very good German in the worst sense of the word.

      • 0 avatar
        Sceptic

        Pch, FreedMike I stopped reading your pathetic discussion after ad hominem started being thrown around. It’s amazing the stuff you guys come up with. Here’s a question for you: Have you asked yourself, why should I follow the law if some people get away with breaking it?

        Maybe try changing the immigration laws?

        And I stand by my point of view that undesirable immigration can only be prevented by society as a whole. This starts at school in the civics classes. And I would agree that laws should be changed, esp the traffic laws. It’s nice to have a country were everyone is a criminal, isn’t it?

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Summary of septic:
          I didn’t bother to read an alternative perspective. I wear my Stasi Badge of Honor with pride.

          • 0 avatar
            GeneralMalaise

            It’s documented which party began cozying up to the Soviet Bloc beginning in 1977.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            What form of documentation does that giant insect have giving it the right to crawl up generalmalaise’ a$$?

            And what proof is there that he truly is mtmmo?

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Oh, give me a break, Sceptic…”but mommy, Joey doesn’t follow the rules, so why should I” stopped working on my mommy when “The Partridge Family” was still on the air.

          The question isn’t whether some people break the law or not. The question is what kind of resources are needed to *bring people into compliance.* Now, if you’d like to give me a detailed breakdown on how you get rid of tens of millions of people, how that gets paid for, and how it happens without crapping all over the Fourteenth Amendment, I’ll listen. Honestly, I will. And we can talk about that.

          But don’t give me this “build a wall and make Mexico pay for it” crap, and claim I don’t care about the law when I don’t buy into it.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          The master race has mastered whining, no doubt.

          • 0 avatar
            Sceptic

            It’s mind boggling how people not capable of civilized discussion can claim a higher moral ground. Something is wrong with you guys.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Your desire to round up everyone is far from civilized.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Septic,
            We don’t deserve the brilliance you waste posting here.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Waiting for you to answer my entirely civilized question, sceptic…I’ll repeat it again to be polite:

            “Now, if you’d like to give me a detailed breakdown on how you get rid of tens of millions of people, how that gets paid for, and how it happens without crapping all over the Fourteenth Amendment, I’ll listen. Honestly, I will. And we can talk about that.”

            Care to provide a civilized answer?

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Septic is out celebrating the 72nd anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. Which for him is more of a reenactment type of deal.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        Illegal immigration is not a crime under federal or state law, so people who immigrated illegally are not criminals unless they committed some other crime.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          OK, let’s not overdo it here. Entering the country illegally is, well, illegal (8 USC 1325, for example).

          They are in violation of the law. However, I don’t hate them for violating the law and I certainly don’t hate them for their skin color. The bigots need to be fought every step of the way.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            up to almost half of the people here illegally are “visa over-stays” and Border Crossing Card violators.

            http://www.pewhispanic.org/2006/05/22/modes-of-entry-for-the-unauthorized-migrant-population/

            Think about that for a second. About half of the people we call “illegal immigrants,” *we knowingly let in.* They just didn’t leave when they were supposed to.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            That statute criminalizes only entry not at a border crossing or under false pretenses. Overstaying a visa or failing to leave is not a crime.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Wait. Are you saying that we are going to go through all this trouble to build a wall, and it won’t even stop people from entering the US? Ugh.

            Well, at least US taxpayers won’t have to pay for this folly now that Trump is getting the Mexicans to agree to pay for it.

            So I guess we’re still winning. Sort of.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            It’s still illegal no matter which way you slice it, unfortunately.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            We have various laws that make illegal entry and overstaying illegal. It’s simply not accurate to say that there is nothing illegal about being an “illegal alien” (which is a term that is also in the US Code.)

            Bigotry is wrong and we should oppose it aggressively, but that doesn’t change the fact that there are people in the US who are not allowed to be here.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Pch, my point is that not everything illegal is a crime (in fact, most illegal acts are not crimes). It’s sloppy at best and a dog whistle at worst to call all people who immigrated illegally “criminals.”

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            The fact that the US deports people with some frequency would suggest that there are illegal aliens present in the United States.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            How else could Secretary Clinton have won the popular vote if there weren’t 3 million illegal aliens voting for her?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Yes we can, spout off alternative facts, but what difference does it make?

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            It’s not a crime for the Feds to take lobby cash from all sorts of industries employing illegal aliens, but it is a crime for illegal aliens to be in the US, overstay their visas, etc?

        • 0 avatar
          Steve65

          “people who immigrated illegally are not criminals unless they committed some other crime.”

          The vast majority of people who are remaining here illegally are doing so for jobs.

          If they’re working under the table, they’re committing tax evasion – which is a federal crime. (yes, there might be some vanishingly tiny number who file tax returns. They’re not statistically relevant)

          If they’re working at “legit” jobs, they’re doing so with either a fake or stolen SSN. In which case they are committing tax fraud, and likely identity theft as well.

          It’s disingenuous to suggest that the vast majority of adults here illegally aren’t committing crimes in order to continue to stay.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @Steve65 – Actually it’s mind numbingly easy to use someone else’s or a dead person’s SSN without getting caught. Maybe a kid’s.

            It’s the honor system, since the Fed are raking in cash while illegals aren’t filing a return. Free money! Everyone wins!!!

          • 0 avatar
            Steve65

            What’s your point? It’s not a crime if it’s easy to do?

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            I’m saying it’s a “crime” that it’s so damn easy to do! I mean WTF. In the Horse and Buggy Days, it had to be hard to control SSN abuse. But this is plain corruption by the Feds. If you’re still wondering, follow the money.

  • avatar
    zoomzoomfan

    I think this will be one of the final nails in the coffin of Mazda USA. They make all of their vehicles in Japan and Mexico. I can totally see them pulling out of the U.S. market over this.

    Then, my wife and I are left with two orphaned vehicles with zero resale value. Sad times for us in that regard.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2017-01-24/subaru-will-overtake-mazda-on-trump-s-trade-track

    • 0 avatar
      mtmmo

      Remove the pink hat. You’re being way too melodramatic.

      • 0 avatar
        zoomzoomfan

        Not wearing a pink hat. I just see a tiny automaker already losing sales and now having to charge more for their product that people already don’t really want.

      • 0 avatar
        Adam Tonge

        mtmmo-

        zoomzoomfan’s comment had nothing to do with women’s marches or protests. He’s just disappointed that a car brand that he likes, enough to create a screen name around, will be put in an even more precarious situation.

        Those participating in protest marches aren’t the only ones concerned about the trade policy changes under the current presidential administration. Lumping his comment into that in a derogatory way is asinine.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          It’s funny what passes as “political thinking” for some people, isn’t it?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            FreedMike – “It’s funny what passes as “political thinking” for some people, isn’t it?”

            The next 4 years (hopefully less) will show that “political thinking” is an oxymoron.

        • 0 avatar
          zoomzoomfan

          @ Adam Tonge, thank you. That’s exactly it.

          I had an ’08 Mazda3 that was a great little car for me and I drove it for six years, including two rough years away at college. I traded it for a 2016 Mazda6 in October 2015, and my wife also has a 2013 Mazda CX-5 that we bought in November 2012. All of the Mazdas have been great, fun, trouble-feee cars for us and I hate to see them end up being unknowns that no one wants, like the Suzukis and Saabs still cruising around somehow. If they up and leave the U.S. market due in part to things like this stacking against them, I’ll have to go find a boring set of Toyotas or Hondas for my wife and I. Blah.

        • 0 avatar
          mtmmo

          Adam there’s a reason you’re not paid for being a moderator, the Bark situation is a great example. Keep cultivating the pink hat brigade environment and we’ll see what happens to TTAC. In fact it’s already happening…

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            mtmmo,
            You can leave at any time. Now would be a good one.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            mtmmo, I think you are the worst offender out of all regular posters, in terms of making things political that don’t need to be. I recommend you step outside of the glass house before you throw all those rocks.

          • 0 avatar
            CaddyDaddy

            VoGo. What no race card today? Are you feeling my o.k.? Mexico will capitulate to President Trump’s demands. They need American currency to prop up their “light-skinned” elite ruling class and narco – petro monopoly state economy.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Who the hell is CaddyDaddy, and why would anyone care?

          • 0 avatar
            Adam Tonge

            mtmmo-

            Thank you for your continued support of TTAC.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          Therein lies the problem. There are those who feel that ALL comments, beliefs, ideologies that do not fall under there own banner can be lumped together and labeled. That is how “dehumanization” works. The “special snowflake” meme is another example. We are all unique. You take that away and it becomes very easy to hate.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “That is how “dehumanization” works. The “special snowflake” meme is another example. ”

            Calling someone a “racist,” or a “fascist” over a simple political agreement does the same thing, Lou.

    • 0 avatar
      DevilsRotary86

      Here’s to hoping that I can at least order NOS RX-7 parts from Japan.

  • avatar
    jthorner

    Treaties? Laws? Don’t those still count?

  • avatar
    Matt Foley

    I’m so glad we got rid of political discussions on TTAC and ran off that bigmouth BTSR and that pesky right-winger Mark Baruth! Now everybody is so peaceful and respectful to one another!

  • avatar
    tresmonos

    Holy sh1t this comment section is full of horrible bs.

  • avatar
    TOTitan

    CallMeDick Trump just makes up shit as he goes along and and expects people to believe him. Apparently you are one of them

  • avatar
    vvk

    I used to buy MANN filters for most of my cars. A couple of year ago I installed a MANN air filter in my car and was very surprised to see that it did not fit quite right. Checking it over, I was further surprised that the filter was no longer Made in Germany. It was now Made in Mexico. What do I care where it is made, as long as it is made well, right? Being Made in Mexico did not make the price go down, by the way, not one penny. Well, I thought, it is still MANN, one crooked filter does not mean anything. Next time my Made in Mexico air filter did not fit right again. This time I was furious. I no longer buy MANN filters. Hengst filters I now buy are perfectly made and don’t cost more than MANN filters. Made in Germany/Austria…

    I hope they do impose the 20% tax so that MANN filters come from Germany again.

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