By on October 1, 2016

new jersey (Shinya Suzuki/Flickr)

After enjoying zero add-ons to their state gas tax since 1988, New Jersey residents are about to get a shock at the pumps.

The Garden State will raise its gas tax by 23 cents a gallon as early as next week in order to fund state infrastructure projects, the New York Times reports. The move raises the tax from the second-lowest in the country (14.5 cents per gallon) to above the national average.

As bad as this may seem to residents used to low, low pump prices, there’s a trade-off.

While the state refills its bone-dry Transportation Trust Fund (which ran out this summer), residents will see the state sales tax drop over the next two years, from 7 percent to 6.625 percent. The estate tax will disappear after 2018.

It took some time for the House to reach a compromise, as Governor Chris Christie fought hard to keep the gas tax status quo. State Democrats eventually agreed to lower other taxes as a way of offsetting the higher gas tax.

While federal infrastructure funding continued, state-funded projects came to a halt when the transportation fund needle hit “empty.” Once the boosted tax hits the pumps, the fund should collect $2 billion each year, matched by federal dollars. That gives New Jersey $32 billion over the next eight years to spend on infrastructure that the American Society of Civil Engineers rates at a D-minus.

You can bet that tax collectors in New York and Pennsylvania are pleased with the move, as it means fewer drivers crossing the New Jersey border to fill up at a cheaper price.

[Image: Shinya Suzuki/Flickr]

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144 Comments on “Sorry, New Jersey — Your Wonderfully Low Gas Prices are Going Up...”


  • avatar
    VoGo

    Gas tax goes up, estate tax goes down. Meaning that the poor and middle class pay more, and the wealthy benefit.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      The estate tax hits mainly the middle class, not the rich. Look at the Kennedys, whose fortune began with old Joe Kennedy, passed to his wife, then their children, and now supports their grandchildren and great-grandchildren. The fortune is structured as a series of trusts, and has never gone through probate. The truly rich have other means of avoiding taxes like the estate tax that the middle class doesn’t.

      • 0 avatar
        mason

        To qualify for Ohio’s estate tax must be valued above $330,000, at which point they nail you for $14,000 +6% of the excess value over $330k.

        While $330k is not chump change, it hardly qualifies one as being wealthy.

        • 0 avatar
          marc1070

          The Ohio estate tax was repealed in 2013.

          • 0 avatar
            chuckrs

            No surprise that got repealed.
            That is an amazingly low level to trigger an estate tax. And the abrupt imposition of tax is beyond stupid. If your estate was $329999, no tax. If it was $330000, its $14000. Talk about a high marginal tax rate!

          • 0 avatar
            mason

            Did not know that, good to hear although a little late (for us).

          • 0 avatar
            Lack Thereof

            Don’t know about Ohio, but New Jersey’s estate tax only kicks in above $675,000, and ignores everything below that… meaning if you inherit $675,001 and trigger the estate tax, you only pay taxes on the $1, not on the whole amount.

            This is the way most estate taxes and income taxes are structured in the US, and I’d be very surprised if Ohio’s (pre-repeal) was any different.

          • 0 avatar
            here4aSammich

            Not before my parents left for Florida. 15 acres and ranch house with a barn in Medina County had passed the threshold long ago. They weren’y alone,and thats why the Ohio estate tax was eventually repealed.

        • 0 avatar
          John

          “Wealthy” is relative. The average American household approaching retirement (ages 55-64) has a nest egg saved up of between $10 – 20,000. Forty one percent of such households have $0 saved up – source US General Accountability Office report, June, 2016.

      • 0 avatar
        thattruthguy

        The middle class doesn’t need estate tax shelters, because estates under $5 million pay no federal estate tax.

      • 0 avatar
        DukeGanote

        The Kennedy fortune makes me sick; so much for smug “public service.” I say: If you can’t inherit debt, you shouldn’t be able to inherit wealth.
        http://www.forbes.com/sites/carlodonnell/2014/07/08/how-the-1-billion-kennedy-family-fortune-defies-death-and-taxes-3/#502b00d8238d

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          The current NJ estate tax hits on inheritances over $675K. If that’s middle class, then maybe America is doing better than I thought.

          • 0 avatar
            mason

            Perhaps your version of middle-class is different, but a conservative definition (to me) is the necessity to continue working to prevent a degradation in lifestyle. A wealthy individual could very well walk away from his/her source of income with no immediate lifestyle changes.

          • 0 avatar
            here4aSammich

            Have you priced real estate in NJ? There’s a good chance the little bungalow your grandparents bought 50 years ago is worth more than that today. Let alone the cottage they bought at the shore.

        • 0 avatar
          Kenmore

          There are wealthy people I bitterly envy but none of them are Kennedys.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            How dare the Kennedy’s have money! Don’t they know that no one with politics different from my own is allowed to be wealthy?

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            And my envy doesn’t verge into hatred because the critical breaks enabling those I do envy were from the “constellation of forces” no one can just summon and very few can even recognize.

            I’ve never wanted to hate them, I’ve just wanted to be them. And after a very brief while we’re all just skeletons or chunky powder anyway.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Kennedy money is dirty as El Chapo’s and despite any good Jack and Bobby did, Ted’s incredibly terrible behavior cancels it out.

            What kills me about some of you on here is whatever your personal ideas you keep pointing to some of the most awful people in the past fifty years as beacons of righteousness when nothing could be further from the truth.

        • 0 avatar

          So you’re all for Chelsea Clinton not getting a penny of the $200 million her folks have gotten for selling influence?

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Ronnie,
            I really don’t care about Chelsea’s finances, and I don’t see the relevance since her parents don’t live in Jersey.

      • 0 avatar
        probert

        Nope – the estate tax was one of the great equalizers in that it taxed mainly the investment class.This class, a class that inherited wealth, not earned it, controls most of the money in the country.

        The inheritance tax made sure that inherited wealth could not be built up to such an extent that you end up with essentially an oligarchical economic disparity. Unfortunately that is the situation we are now in.

      • 0 avatar

        Exactly. That is why rich support democrats – they do not want the rest of population to advance and rich do not pay taxes anyway, just ask Warren Buffet.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Except that nearly every time estate taxes have been reduced or repealed, Republicans were the ones pushing for it.

          Warren Buffet has been lobbying for higher taxes on the wealthy.

          • 0 avatar

            Which he himself was not planning to pay. Well because he smart.

          • 0 avatar
            jacob_coulter

            Funny how Warren Buffett has been campaigning for higher Estate Taxes when he owns an insurance company that sells life insurance. The mother of all tax estate loopholes.

            Life insurance companies fight tooth and nail to keep estate taxes high so they can keep selling their policies.

            Just like Buffet being against oil pipelines because he owns rail companies that transport crude oil.

            Good for New Jersey to change its Estate Tax, now maybe they can work on their property taxes. Somehow other states do just fine without such high taxes.

          • 0 avatar
            DukeGanote

            Self-serving rich? Forget not the Founding Father of Corruption, Alexander Hamilton.
            https://mises.org/library/founding-father-crony-capitalism

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Hang on, Jacob,
            Geico is a P&C insurer, not life. They do sell a limited amount of life insurance, but 90%+ is term, which gets no tax benefit.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Yes, it is self serving for Warren Buffet to donate the vast majority of his fortune.

          • 0 avatar

            In the end middle class loses everything during financial collapse. Those who live on handouts have nothing to loose and rich, influential always find ways to make money and protect assets. It happened in SU and it will happen in US when it finally defaults on its debt. Two countries are not much different. It will take longer for US to default than for SU but US is moving in the same direction. Only blind cannot see it. There is no way pay back or maintain 20T,40T, 60T or more of debt. What will happen middle class will loose all savings and rich will be okay because they are smarter. They are able make money out of nothing. So keep electing corrupted politicians and kicking can down the road.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Thanks for the link above, but I really didn’t need to be reminded that the Mises website is a pile of cyberdung.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            For all practical purposes, every single event of the last 70 years has proven Austrian economists wrong. And it just keeps happening over and over again.

            They should only be cited in the same way one cites the Onion: for comedy value.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            Except what Vogo? What did you miss? Estate taxes are a weapon of the status quo. The rich don’t pay estate taxes. What part of that don’t you understand? Estate taxes are a mechanism for breaking up small businesses and preserving the power of people that can afford politicians. That’s why Democrats enact estate taxes. They’re not idiots. They’re pure evil. You have them confused with their supporters.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            “The rich don’t pay estate taxes.”

            The rich are the only people that pay most estate taxes. Ones that apply to smaller estates, like Ohio’s, are very much the exception. Unless you think someone who dies with an estate of $6 million or more isn’t rich.

            “Estate taxes are a mechanism for breaking up small businesses and preserving the power of people that can afford politicians.”

            No small business is subject to the federal estate tax. If it were, it wouldn’t be small. And anyone with a business big enough that it would be subject to the federal estate tax has plenty of money to hire a lawyer and establish that business as something other than a sole proprietorship or S corporation.

            Estate taxes are the only way to stop hereditary aristocracy from being completely impregnable.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            Six million is achievable through hard work and intelligence. It’s the billionaires you’re fighting for, and they’ll never pay a substantial amount in estate taxes. It must give them great comfort to have dancing monkeys fighting their battles against the encroachment of the middle class most of those monkeys are a part of.

    • 0 avatar
      probert

      yup

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      VoGo,
      The reality is all must bear the pain.

      I think Christie went wrong by reducing other taxes to compensate for the increased fuel tax.

      As our Western societies transform with more seniors, we either increase taxes or allow more imigrants (preferably young) to improve GDP, allowing for a larger tax base.

      • 0 avatar
        shaker

        “I think Christie went wrong by reducing other taxes to compensate for the increased fuel tax.”

        He went perfectly ‘right’ by the people who elected him. Note that the taxes that will be raised are matched by federal $, while the taxes being lowered are not. Christie is looking pretty smart right now.

        Maybe some of the new funds can be used to improve GWB access from Fort Lee.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    The tax on fuel is a user tax which ultimately is a fairer tax in that those who use the roads pay for the construction and maintenance of roads and bridges. Income should not factor into a tax like the fuel tax. Most of the wealthy do not pay estate taxes as Lorenzo has state above. A tax system’s primary purpose is to raise revenue for a government to provide the necessary services that citizens require of that government and should not be used to penalize a group of taxpayers or to redistribute wealth.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Next week, NJ will feel full rage of my fury. For the first time in 25 years I will drive through this state without stop. And I will not fill 2 tankfuls of gas. If I have to pay it anyway, I’ll give it to my home state. There is also no longer need in hustling calculating miles and locations of the stations. I can just go through as fast as possible and never look back.

      • 0 avatar
        bunkie

        What will be really interesting is what will happen to gas prices near NJ borders. On my weekly journey between NYC and NE PA, I have seen that gas prices in NY and PA have been moderated by the lower prices in NJ. At one spot in NY (Goshen), I’ve seen a marked change in the last year. Prices there used to be a good $.40 higher than in NJ, but have more recently dropped to within $.15-$.20.

  • avatar
    Lorenzo

    I wouldn’t spend that $2 billion right away, if I were New Jersey DOT. A good portion of the volume of gas sales is due to the attraction of low prices, but if the differential is too small to pay for transit to NJ, the out of staters will just fill up at home.

    The total NJ taxes on gasoline are 32.9 cents. Add 23 cents and the new total is 55.9 cents. The total tax in New York state is 61.8 cents so only those closest to the state line would make the trip. Pennsylvania’s total tax is a whopping 69.8 cents, so there will still be an incentive for those not so close to the state line to drive to NJ.

    A mitigating factor is additional costs to retailers and suppliers in New York City and Philadelphia that cause higher local prices. That factor would cause the trip to Jersey from those highly populated cities close to the state line to be more economical than a statewide gas tax comparison would indicate, and chances are those two cities produce the majority of out of state drivers getting gassed in Jersey.

    BTW, the state/federal split is not always 50-50. For some projects, the feds will pay 70%, 80% or even 90%. In some cases, the feds will pay up to 100% of the cost of environmental mitigation involved, and not just habitat restoration. Noise abatement expenses for nearby schools is almost always 100% federally funded. By choosing projects that involve the interstate system, environmental cleanup as part of bridge replacement or reconstruction, and other measures, NJ could leverage far more than the $32 billion cited.

    • 0 avatar
      golden2husky

      Most I know don’t cross over to NJ to gas up unless they roll other tasks into the trip like shopping. The tolls to cross over to NJ from NY means that those savings for 18 gallons of gas are eaten up by the tolls and mileage making a trip for gas only not worth it. Maybe other states where a bridge toll can be avoided…

      I hope the tax funds are in a lockbox so they cannot be re-purposed for other needs, such as a shortfall in the general fund…

    • 0 avatar

      My parents live in NJ, and when i’m up there I usually try to get gas while I’m there to take advantage of the lower prices. It’s no accident that there are a ton of gas stations and truck stops right on, say, I-95 before the entrance to the Turnpike or on i-78 right before the PA border.

      Will the decrease in out-of-staters gassing up make a difference? Maybe not, although NJ is a long and thin state, which means lots of borders. It at least will not be good for those gas stations right at the borders, who will find people intentionally passing them instead of intentionally stopping at them if it’s cheaper to get gas in PA or DE.

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    The important question is whether the additional money will be used to improve traffic flow or wasted on politically correct boondoggles.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      Politically correct boondoggles? Just so I understand, is your opposition to boondoggles themselves, or to describing them without bigoted language?

      • 0 avatar

        “Bigoted language?” My personal pronoun is “Oh wise and great one”.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          That’s not a pronoun. Also not relevant.

          • 0 avatar

            Stop marginalizing and othering me! Who are you to say what my personal pronoun is? It’s my reality and my truth. If the University of Michigan can define making someone feel uncomfortable as “violence”, “oh wise and great one” can be a pronoun. How is “oh wise and great one” different from xe and zhe?

            Speaking of UofM and personal pronouns: http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/29/so-brave-this-university-of-michigan-kid

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            “oh wise and great one”

            At least you respect the fact that Grand Poobah was already taken.

      • 0 avatar
        dwford

        “Politically correct” is now a BIGOTED term?!

        I think everyone here knows exactly what Kendahl means. He questions whether the money will go to roads and bridges, or be used for busses and bike trails. I, at least, know what he means. Here is CT we spend our transportation money on multiple overlapping bus routes, $4.5m bike trails that only go 4000 feet, and about $10m to tack on a bike lane to 1 bridge over the Connecticut river. We are also restricting traffic flow in the cities by converting car lanes to bike lanes.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          dwford,
          I was just trying to make the point that PC means removing bigoted terms from our language. So we stop saying “He Jewed me down on price” because most Jews really don’t like being stereotyped as cheap bastards.

          PC has nothing to do with the selection of infrastructure projects.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “PC has nothing to do with the selection of infrastructure projects.”

            Bullsh*t.

            “PC means removing bigoted terms from our language.”

            It is about CONTROL of language.

          • 0 avatar

            I can assure you that neither the leftists who invented the term “politically correct” to define leftist orthodoxy, nor today’s Social Justice Warriors who use it to enforce that orthodoxy have any concerns at all about Jew-hatred. Intersectionalism apparently ends when Jews are the target of hate:

            http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/opinion/sunday/anti-semitism-at-my-university-hidden-in-plain-sight.html?_r=0

            (Frankly, I think the leftist Jew who wrote this is a bit craven in his need to be accepted by the left on his campus, but his perspective is valuable because he’s not exactly a Likud supporter).

            You stopped using slurs because people got offended? What a high moral standard! Such a moral avatar you must be. Meanwhile, you toss the racist card as often as you can, as you did here with the word “bigoted”.

            As for that particular use of the word Jew as a verb, it doesn’t stereotype Jews as cheap bastards, as the Scots are characterized, it stereotypes Jews as cheaters, people who unfairly bargain.

            It’s akin to using the word “gyp” for cheating. That’s a slur against Roma/Gypsies.

      • 0 avatar
        CaddyDaddy

        VoGo. You are Very Good at exposing your dark personality through your sharp commentary which IMO does not belong in the TTAC form. Respect should be granted to other TTAC community members.

        Gas Tax: True, money collected from the increased gas tax will be siphoned off to pay for feel good boondoggles, green and “greater-good” projects. The other monies collected will go to those well connected contractors and labor union interests. Hey, it’s Jersey!

      • 0 avatar
        jacob_coulter

        What on Earth are you talking about?

        Bigoted language because somebody said “politically correct boondoggle”?

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Serious reading comprehension issues here, so let’s take it from the top:

          Kendahl mentioned the term “politically correct (PC) boondoggles.”

          I questioned the term in that context, given that PC is about removing bigotry from our language.

          Then all manner of commenters got deeply insulted. I have no idea why, but I suspect it may be an education issue.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            I think dwford’s comment highlights how you’ve arbitrarily narrowed the concept of “political correctness” to only issues of speech.

            Don’t do that no more.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Wikipedia: “Political correctness (adjectivally: politically correct), commonly abbreviated to PC,[1] is a term that, in modern usage, is used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended not to offend or disadvantage any particular group of people in society.”

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            “policies, or measures”

            Thanks. Ya know, I was just sittin’ here reading about Bell’s palsy like that sweetheart Nancy Zieman of Sewing with Nancy has. Thought I’d bop over to TTAC and *boom*.. there’s VoGo agreeing with me!

    • 0 avatar
      2manycars

      Another important question is what did the state do with the funds already collected from the gas tax? If they expended it maintaining the roads, then fair enough. But if they squandered it in other areas and now demand more, people in that state really need to draw and quarter their politicians.

    • 0 avatar
      dwford

      All I know is that this just means more cones out restricting lanes of traffic during “construction.”

  • avatar
    chuckrs

    Jersey gas tax goes way up. Gas station attendants hardest hit.

  • avatar
    healthy skeptic

    I see an easy way to brimg gas prices back down a bit. Has to do with pumping gas, and laws forbidding such.

  • avatar
    whynotaztec

    Im sure at least some of it will turn into a money grab for special interests, that is just rotten human nature.
    I would be in favor of an increase in my home state if the funds were spent only on highway projects, such as going after the deficient bridge list, etc. Imagine the stimulus by spending on materials and equipment made in the USA, and maybe even setting up some training programs as part of it to reduce long term unemployment. And imagine mimimal nepotism, featherbedding, and political favors. My God I am so naive it is pathetic.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      Whynotaztec,
      In the big scheme of things a couple of billion isn’t that much when you need good infrastructure for over ten million.

      The tax should be indexed to inflation and FE improvements.

      It will be nice to think I’ll be able to drive on decent roads when I visit my family.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    This is fantastic for the residents of Jersey.

    Investing in infrastructure can only be of benefit, especially over the longer term.

    Maybe they can finish the limited access highway from Millville to above the Court House.

    Increase the fuel tax if needed.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      yeah, but you don’t understand the American mindset when it comes to taxation.

      “These roads are terrible! Can’t we fix them?”

      “We don’t have room in the budget. We need to raise the gas tax…”

      “I PAY TOO MUCH TAXES ALREADY! JUST TAKE MONEY FROM (thing I don’t care about)!!!!”

      “Uh, we’ve got a lot of people over here who *do* care about (thing you don’t care about) and will be much worse off if we cut it.”

      “SCREW THEM. DON’T YOU DARE RAISE *MY* TAXES ONE CENT! AND FIX ALL OF THE ROADS!”

      Repeat. then it eventually degrades into complaining about “waste” but when challenged, the whiners will fail to actually point out something wasting significant money which actually exists.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        JimZ,
        Australia is heading down the same track.

        Everyone acknowledges something needs to be addressed, but most think they should not be held to account. It’s someone elses problem.

        This attitude will be our downfall. Illogical selfishness. As this attitude/culture increases we lose our sense of social/community responsibilities.

        What made the US and Australia great nations and democracies was the responsible and mature outlook free individuals held. We knew when and how to exercise our freedoms.

        We were able to comprehend when social/community requirements outweighed persoal gain.

        This is the case here with gas taxes, social/community improvements will lead to personal improvements.

      • 0 avatar
        mchan1

        +1 many times over.

        Now switch NJ to [another state] and that situation applies to them as well and not just to gas taxes.

        Pit one group of people against the other… the have vs the have nots and history keeps repeating itself!

        It’s sad that people can’t work together in this modern age. That shows anyone that humankind hasn’t evolved much.

        The more things change, the more it stays the same.

  • avatar
    mtmmo

    Guys just make sure your posts are pro-Hillary or anti-Trump or they’ll be censored. Those are the ground rules being enforced.

    • 0 avatar
      Jimal

      It could also be a matter of veering completely off topic. I fail to see what the Presidential election – such as it is – has to do with what New Jersey does with its state taxes. I have a hard time believing, considering the crowd here, that there is post censorship based on what you are alleging.

      • 0 avatar
        Kenmore

        Truth. I’d bet I could even get away with referencing my new infatuation with the clean-guitar instrumentals of the early ’60s like that from The Shadows and The Ventures.

        Twang, not Shred.

        • 0 avatar

          Clean? Nah, surf was just a different kind of distortion. Turn the tremolo up a bit and kick in the reverb on my Danelectro-made Silvertone Twin Twelve and it’s 1965 all over again.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            Don’t forget to whammy! Tastefully, barely discernibly, of course.

            I’m going bonzo waiting to try a Virtual Jeff digital whammy for my Martin. Octave range in both directions and absolutely no mechanical stresses on the guitar.

        • 0 avatar
          2manycars

          Ah, the Shadows. As far as I know, along with Cliff Richard, the only rock band to do a rock video in puppet form. (Search youtube for “Shooting Star Cliff Richard Thunderbirds”.)

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        mtmmo,
        Please show evidence of TTAC censorship for backing a lying, cheating, bigoted, unqualified buffoon over the well prepared, mainstream candidate.

        • 0 avatar

          I’ll simply note that you didn’t say your well prepared, mainstream candidate is honest and uncorruptable.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            She released her tax returns. Trump did not. What is he hiding?

            I would go on the record to say “more honest and less corrupt than the alternative.”

          • 0 avatar
            Jimal

            I’m sort of going with P.J. O’Rourke with his backhanded endorsement of Clinton, “She’s wrong about absolutely everything, but she’s wrong within normal parameters.”

        • 0 avatar
          2manycars

          You no doubt meant to say “Please show evidence of TTAC censorship for backing an intelligent and successful businessman over the lying, cheating, incompetent, irredeemably corrupt career criminal who, due to her penchant for the destruction of evidence, is not even eligible for office per 18 U.S. Code § 2071.”

          Really, the only thing remarkable about that particular candidate, aside from apparently never having held a real job in her life, is that she is the most openly corrupt individual ever to seek that particular office.

          Glad to help you out with that one. (BTW, as far as I can see no such censorship has taken place.)

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            “intelligent and successful businessman” – is it 2012 all over again? I miss Mitt. I think 80% of Republican voters do too.

            As far as 18 U.S. Code § 2071, the guy who started this silliness is attorney general Mukasey, and even he backtracked once confronted with bipartisan response showing his erroneous application of the law. http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-disqualified/

            FYI, this is the same Mukasey known as ‘Judge Waterboarder.’

          • 0 avatar
            Jimal

            John Kasich would have mopped the floor with Clinton. Jeb might have. The rest were a rogues gallery of wannabes and neverweres.

          • 0 avatar
            56BelAire

            @ 2manycars,

            +1…….from one of the “Basket of Deplorables”

        • 0 avatar
          mtmmo

          I’ve had multiple posts disappear this week alone and the only commonality was the use of the word ‘Hillary’. I’m also friends with two other posters who tell me they’ve had the same experience over the past couple of weeks. Coincidence? I (we) think not.

          The irony is I believe my core political beliefs are similar to yours (ie Moderate to Liberal Dem) however I could never support a lying career politician who’s decisions led to the death of more than a million people in Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and Libya.

          Politics should never be part of a car site but when it does creep in the rules should be applied equally. There’s a noticeable bias resulting in censorship against the pro-Trump posters. Maybe I’ll return to TTAC after the elections but I doubt it. Good luck to your candidate.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            If there were this alleged censorship of pro-Trump commenters those of us with an eye for humor would’ve noticed and stopped coming around.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Sorry, I just don’t find credible mmtmo’s contention that he has two friends.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            I believe it. Left hand, right hand. One’s always been the better friend but the other’s there if you need him.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            I think those are called Friends with Benefits!

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            Well, they certainly deserve those benefits for helping him get a grip!

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            mtmmo,

            Thanks. It’s easy to forget that there is any human decency among liberals when they’re comfortable with what their candidate has spent her lifetime perpetrating…not to mention eating their own over principled dissent.

    • 0 avatar

      mtmmo, That’s simply not a fair characterization of the site to say that it’s anti-Trump. Two of TTAC’s staff writers are open Trump supporters and while I can catalog my own differences with Mr. Trump, I’m definitely not a Hillary supporter. TTAC’s writers are not homogeneous in our politics. Our managing editor is a man of the left and if I’m not mistaken he votes for Labor in Canada.

      If comments containing the word Hillary have been eaten by the filter, it’s a bug, not a feature.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        Ronnie,
        I think your view is common. You now must vote for whom will do the least damage.

        Maybe that ex-CIA guy will surprise. He can challenge that ex-KGB guy in Russia.

  • avatar
    ixim

    This election is driving everybody nuts. Soon it will end. Not soon enough, though.

    • 0 avatar
      Kenmore

      I sincerely doubt that anyone commenting here will see a significant change in her/his life with either possible outcome.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        I tried to console myself with those words 15 years ago. Endless war and The Great Recession proved me wrong.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Kenmore – I’m suspecting that on one side of the political isle “In that place there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth”. On the other side: smug self righteousness.

        Some might see that as a significant change in her/his life but judging from the commentary typical of the body politic, you are correct….. just more of the same old same old.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        My business is sensitive to what happens in the economy. It will not do well when business grinds to a halt if The Great Orange One is elected. There is one thing business hates, and that is uncertainty. Trump is so mercurial, emotionally driven, and irrational that all you get with him is uncertainty. There has not been a Democratic or Republican candidate who would create so much business uncertainty in more than a century (the last one being William Jennings Bryan in 1908).

        If he is elected I expect all investment to more or less grind to a halt until people figure out what doing business under him is actually going to be like.

        If Hillary is elected (which I sincerely hope) then things will continue basically as they are now. Which is fine by me.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      I can’t wait for this country to grow up. I’m sick of politics being a poison for relationships. and I’m not talking about just this election; even years ago I’ve seen friendships ended because we all have this deep seated belief that the only reason someone can disagree with you politically is because they’re stupid, evil, and hate you.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      Many years ago, an obscure comic – so obscure I can’t remember his name – made the observation, “after every election, the voters are separated into two opposing camps: those who are afraid the winning candidates won’t live up to their campaign promises, and those who are afraid they will.”

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @Lou_BC–I have gotten to the point I cannot listen to either of the main candidates. One candidate is unhinged and says whatever is on his mind whether you want to hear it or not and the other candidate is shrill and makes you feel like she is superior to anyone but at the same time is secretive and carries a lot of baggage. There is a third party candidate that doesn’t know anything and acts like he is stoned. At this point most of us just want to get the election over with.

    I don’t have a problem with a higher fuel tax except that it should not be spent on anything else but the maintenance and construction of roads and bridges and not wasted. There should be oversight on the spending of this tax money and it should not be used on “bridges to nowhere”.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Jeff S – what ever happened to the “good ol’ days” when elections were a popularity contest?

      Now it is a fear contest.

      Vote for the one you fear the least.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    (scanning the comments): DAFUQ did I just read?

  • avatar

    The greatest danger of an orange president is that Rudy Giuliani, Chris Christie, and that entire group of second-third string right wingers will have a place in Washington….

    Look at Christie’s education proposals, which can be reduced to “take money from inner city districts and move it to the burbs”-the promise is that property taxes will go down in the areas that vote for him.

    He screwed the middle class to give a gift to his 1% backers.

    Rudy’s greatest achievement is locking up folks smoking weed in NYC for 72 hours and being proud of it. CC is also massively against any sort of drug reform. We’d be back to Nixon on that one. Oh, and anyone recall the super discount CC gave the orange one on back taxes from Atlantic City ? It’s OK, Leona Helmsley was right, “only the little people pay taxes”.

    These buffoons need to be nowhere near real power.

    I’m not a Hill fan, but for the sole issue of Supreme Court Justices, which last WAY longer and can do more damage than a 4 year tenant of 1600 Penn Ave, she’s the least objectionable choice.

    • 0 avatar
      Kenmore

      The main reason I’m voting against Trump is that I don’t want an undisciplined, lazy, superannuated rich-kid bully prone to frothing hissy fits as C-in-C of America’s armed forces. One Shrub was enough.

      As an aging white man, most regressive social policies are fine by me.

    • 0 avatar
      JD23

      “I’m not a Hill fan, but for the sole issue of Supreme Court Justices, which last WAY longer and can do more damage than a 4 year tenant of 1600 Penn Ave, she’s the least objectionable choice.”

      For the same reason, I cannot vote for Hillary. With Hillary, I know what type of noxious authoritarian justices she will nominate, but with Trump I have no idea.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Oh, do you not like Judge Garland? Just wait…

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        The most authoritarian member of the Supreme Court, and it’s not even close, is Justice Thomas. I do not think Hillary’s justices would be like him.

        • 0 avatar
          ToddAtlasF1

          Do you have any idea what authoritarian means? How is someone who views judicial review as the specific task of comparing laws to the constitution to determine whether or not they were created legally authoritarian? What else don’t you know? Where did you go to school? Are all your fellow alums misinformed?

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Thomas’s record shows amply that he typically views laws as constitutional if and only if they benefit either the executive branch or business. His view of executive branch power is near unlimited, and his view of the procedural protections in the Bill of Rights is the narrowest of any justice. This is why the liberal meme that he is a clone of Scalia was always dangerously wrong — Scalia was much more respectful of the constitutional rights of average individuals.

            He is the justice who would do the least to stop an authoritarian president from tearing up the constitution.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            He’s the justice who would do the most to assure that the President only executed his job, which is a matter of enforcing constitutional laws enacted by the legislature.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            You have evidently never read a single opinion of his. He is the Court’s greatest advocate of essentially untrammeled presidential power.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            Where was he on Obama’s illegal amnesty?

    • 0 avatar
      Kenmore

      “I’m not a Hill fan”

      I wasn’t either but I watched his show for the bazoomy women.

  • avatar
    Jacob

    I don’t mind paying slightly higher gas taxes if the money goes towards funding infrastructure projects rather than being deviated into some other causes or towards paying off bureaucracy or union fat-cats.

  • avatar
    ixim

    FWIW, it’s been a great run with cheap gas right on the way to NYC. And they pump it for you! Some of the $$$ will make its way into roads projects. As always.

  • avatar
    chuckrs

    Our choices

    1) blowhard
    2) criminal
    3) stoner
    4) greenie

    Don’t blame me, I’m voting for Kodos. Or is it Kang?

  • avatar
    Whittaker

    It appears TTAC’s Rules of Civility are merely suggestions.

    1)No personal/ad hominem attacks.
    5)No political campaigning/hackery.

    How about either enforcing the rules or abandoning them?
    The only alternative is selective enforcement, which is deplorable and already being alleged.

  • avatar
    zerofoo

    There should be no estate taxes – period.

    I don’t care who you are or how you got your money. That money was taxed when it was earned. That money is also taxed when it is spent.

    Government should not be entitled to yet another cut at death.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      Did you know one of the founders – Thomas Jefferson, of all people – promoted confiscatory estate taxes as an egalitarian principle? He wanted a “natural aristocracy of talent”, not one of accumulated wealth, and thought the estate tax was the way to achieve it.

      Of course, he came up with his own way, by leaving such a pile of debt that his daughter had to sell most of his papers, his furniture, most of his land, and Monticello itself. Still, people with accumulated wealth always seem to find a way to perpetuate it. Build a better mousetrap, and Nature builds a better mouse.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      “That money was taxed when it was earned.”

      Probably not. The wealthier the person is, and the more of their income comes from investments, the fewer taxes they pay.

      We’ve already had plenty of societies experiment with zero estate taxes. The result is inevitably quick and effective concentration of wealth. That is what gives rise to feudalism.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Cry me a river of tears.

    New Jersey’s gas tax is going to 37.5 cents; Pennsylvania’s is 51.4 cents.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      See our bridges that catch on fire!

      • 0 avatar
        Kenmore

        If one ponders the current state of the states that formerly were America’s industrial powerhouses, it’s hard to not conclude that Dog really *was* on Jeff Davis’ side but just took His sweet time in doing something about it.

        Ditto for the Ruskies vs. that farty guy.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Farty guy? Do you mean Khrushchev?

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            Nyet, comrade. Was rocket research. Nikita Sergeyevich wore many hats and inwented biofuel.

          • 0 avatar
            Lorenzo

            Come on, Kenmore, you have to fill in the younger set about that vegetarian, Adolf. His gaseous emissions were legendary, but the details didn’t make it into the history books.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            “you have to fill in the younger set”

            Nope. It’s their own damn fault they’re young.

        • 0 avatar
          chuckrs

          To get serious for a moment, Sergei Krushchev, PhD, Nikita’s son, is a rocket scientist. He lives nearby to me in RI and is a fellow at Brown University’s Watson Institute for International Studies and at 81 still occasionally lectures at the Naval War College in Newport. He is a US citizen. You can’t make this stuff up.

  • avatar
    BunkerMan

    I have no sympathy at all. Here in NB, Canada, we pay 23.6 cents per litre of fuel. That’s not too bad compared to some other provinces (which can be almost double that). But wait, there’s more! We have to pay 15% sales tax on the fuel as well, which is applicable on the fuel tax. Our tax is being taxed.

    Using very basic math (which may be slightly off, I apologize):

    At current gas prices of around $1 per litre (taxes in, of course) close to $0.312 per litre is tax. At current exchange rates, that’s approximately $0.94 US per gallon.

    I won’t even mention Europe.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I think it was about 1.49/L in Switzerland in June. Since the USD and CHF were about three pips from each other at the time, that’s about $1.55 per L x 4 = $6.20/gal.

  • avatar
    White Shadow

    BTW, the gas tax hike in NJ is not yet a done deal. We will find out after the vote on Wednesday.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      What??? Voters get a say in how they’re taxed? Oh, wait. Comrade Stalin allegedly said it’s not important who votes, but who counts the votes. Never mind.

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