By on October 22, 2016

2015 Volvo S60 Sedan

Autumn is here, leaves are falling, and dealers are marking down remaining 2016 inventory to free up room for models that won’t sound old in three months.

It’s a good time to hunt for that smoking deal on the 2016 vehicle of your dreams, but if your dreams — and bank balance — fail to reach that goal, looking back another model year could save you a lot of money.

New car looks and a low entry price can be yours if you’re willing to live with a vehicle boasting limited appeal and awful resale value. These are your best bets.

According to iSeeCars.com, which analyzed 14 million new and used cars between August 1, 2015 and July 31 of this year, buyers can easily save five figures on a number of 2015 models compared to their 2016 counterparts.

The crowned winner of the depreciation game is a vehicle almost universally loathed by the car buying public. We’re off to a bad start. Yes, it’s the Fiat 500L. Sales of this ungainly, Serbian-built Italian have flatlined, and resale values have tumbled off a cliff. Prices of 2015 models are 34.6 percent lower than the Class of ’16. Good news for the man or woman with eccentric tastes and a limited bank balance.

The second-largest drop in resale value goes to an old model that’s already extinct. The Lincoln MKS was axed from the lineup to make room for the 2017 Continental, meaning there’s likely a few good deals to be found on 2016 models. However, one-year-old model year MKS sedans undercut the 2016s in price by 34.5 percent, or a difference of $16,039. This could be a good option if you’re easing into retirement and your pension doesn’t allow the same buying power.

From Scandinavia comes the third-place depreciation winner, the Volvo S60. This Swedish sedan sees an average price drop of 34.4 percent between 2015 and 2016 models, a difference of $14,204.

The one-year-old depreciation list continues through the Kia Cadenza at No. 4 (who isn’t talking Cadenza these days?), Mercedes-Benz C250 (a $15,247 drop), Nissan Maxima, and Lincoln MKZ and MKZ Hybrid. The No. 8 placeholder, Jaguar’s XF, sees the largest price difference between 2015 and 2016 models — $19,966.

Numbers nine through 12 are occupied by the Fiat 500, Cadillac ATS, Chrysler 300 and Buick Regal. Even the models at the bottom of the list see a value drop of more than 31 percent.

The other side of the coin doesn’t help buyers looking for a deal, but it’s great for owners. The list of vehicles that saw the least depreciation is heavy with trucks and SUVs, go figure. While the crown goes to the Chevrolet Colorado, with a price drop of only seven percent over 2016 models, the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited and GMC Canyon aren’t far behind.

The Honda Fit and Nissan Frontier place No. 4 and 5 on the list, with the fifth-place finisher showing an 8.8 percent price difference over new. Subaru’s smaller cars take the next three spots, followed by the Toyota Highlander and Range Rover.

[Image: Volvo Car Corporation]

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73 Comments on “New or Used? If Price Is the Only Thing That Matters, These Depreciation Deals Are for You...”


  • avatar
    dwford

    A lot of those are actually good cars. Brand perception has not caught up to the product. I’d probably advise waiting 2 years from new. You can find 2 year old Cadenza’s that stickered for $42k for $25 easily. I’m sure the same is true of the others.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Before I click the headline: Toyota telling me that the 4Runner has the best resale value in its class, after the jump – AutoTrader wondering if I’d like to see deals on Kia Cadenzas.

    Coincidence? I think not.

    This just reminds me of good Ol’ Steve Lang telling us: “Hit ’em where they ain’t.” If nobody wants it the deals will be great.

  • avatar
    heavy handle

    The 500L doesn’t sell anywhere near its list price when new, so I suspect that the depreciation rate is highly exaggerated.

    The S60 is a great deal at that price. It’s a bit tight in the back because of the sloping roof line, but it’s a solid, powerful and economical choice if your rarely give rides to 6-footers.

    • 0 avatar
      brn

      The article doesn’t flat out say it, but the implication is that they’re talking sale price, not list price, on the new car. In that case the depreciation is not exaggerated.

      • 0 avatar
        Lack Thereof

        Click through the links and they do say it’s based on sale price. But depending on how manufacturer rebates are handled in the sale price reporting, it could still be skewed.

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      This doesn’t reflect Buick’s 20-20% off sale?

      Or the fact that all these main stream cars are never purchased at full MSRP.

  • avatar

    Didn’t see the Nissan LEAF on the list, thought it had heavy depreciation.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Yes. My 12 Leaf depreciated about 75% in 3 years, which works out to about 38% annually, and that doesn’t include the Federal subsidy.

      Glad mine was a lease.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        The best move on a Leaf is probably to find an MY12, offer nothing (because they are worth NOTHING), and then pay for the upgraded battery pack yourself.

        Let’s go to the tape:

        MY12 Nissan Leaf SL

        10/07/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $3,875 14,061 Below BLACK EL A Yes
        09/22/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $4,015 14,575 Below SUPER BL EL A Yes
        10/03/16 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $6,000 16,878 Avg GLAC PRL EL A Yes
        10/05/16 Manheim Hawaii Lease $6,500 17,483 Above WHITE EL A Yes
        09/22/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $3,738 18,918 Below WHITE EL A Yes
        10/13/16 Manheim Pennsylvania Lease $3,740 21,685 Below WHITE EL A Yes
        09/27/16 Manheim Dallas Lease $4,400 21,715 Below BLUE EL A Yes
        09/23/16 Manheim Pennsylvania Lease $6,200 23,890 Avg SILVER EL A Yes
        10/11/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $5,250 24,052 Avg RED EL A Yes
        09/27/16 Manheim Dallas Lease $5,200 27,807 Avg BLACK EL A Yes
        10/12/16 Manheim Seattle Lease $5,700 28,426 Avg SILVER EL A Yes
        09/27/16 Manheim Dallas Lease $4,400 28,661 Below BLACK EL A Yes
        09/28/16 Manheim Nashville Lease $5,600 28,683 Avg SILVER EL A Yes
        09/28/16 Manheim New Jersey Lease $6,800 29,973 Above WHITE EL A Yes
        09/27/16 Manheim Denver Lease $6,200 30,093 Avg BLUE EL A Yes
        10/04/16 Manheim Ohio Lease $5,600 30,153 Avg RED EL A Yes
        09/28/16 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $6,200 30,889 Avg CAYENNE EL A Yes
        10/18/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $6,250 30,956 Avg WHITE EL A Yes
        09/28/16 Manheim Nashville Lease $5,900 31,950 Avg BLACK EL A Yes
        10/12/16 Manheim California Lease $5,600 34,757 Avg SILVER EL A Yes
        10/12/16 Manheim Pittsburgh Lease $6,300 35,078 Avg WHITE EL A Yes
        09/26/16 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $6,200 36,319 Avg BRILLIAN EL A Yes
        10/07/16 Manheim Nevada Lease $5,200 36,364 Avg BLUE EL A Yes
        10/18/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $6,000 36,507 Avg BLACK EL A Yes
        10/20/16 Manheim Phoenix Lease $5,800 36,848 Avg WHITE EL A Yes
        10/12/16 Manheim California Lease $5,300 38,928 Avg BLACK EL A Yes
        10/11/16 Manheim Georgia Lease $6,000 39,408 Avg SILVER EL A Yes
        10/11/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $5,750 40,600 Avg BLUE EL A Yes
        10/11/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $5,500 41,672 Avg RED EL A Yes
        09/28/16 Manheim Dallas Lease $4,800 42,506 Avg BLUE EL A Yes
        10/18/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $5,750 42,662 Avg WHITE EL A Yes
        10/19/16 Manheim San Francisco Bay Lease $6,000 44,648 Avg RED EL A Yes
        10/12/16 Manheim California Lease $5,500 45,007 Avg WHITE EL A Yes
        10/11/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $6,000 45,130 Avg BLACK EL A Yes
        10/11/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $5,250 46,273 Avg BLACK EL A Yes
        10/18/16 Manheim Baltimore-Washington Regular $4,300 46,651 Below BLUE EL A Yes
        10/11/16 Manheim Georgia Lease $6,100 59,902 Avg WHITE EL A Yes

        Anything that says “below” at that age and miles is most likely electrical or battery issues, not wrecks. Notice they are effectively worthless. Offer the dealer these valuations plus a pack and explain you know the score because 28 told ya, and I said GFY on high pricing. My guess is dealers are taking these in on trade, they need a battery pack which either exceeds or nearly exceeds the value of the car, and they get stuck with them. If you, the enterprising buyer, understand this and have no problem getting into one for roughly 10K all in (buy plus battery pack) it may not be a horrible proposition for a short range commuter.

        Years back cars like these would be bundled in packs to wholesalers, i.e. buy these five cars for X price, but only three of the five were ones you wanted. This might also be what’s happening here, dealers offload these things in packs to a wholesaler, who makes a per unit profit (i.e. breaks even/minor profit on a CR-V but makes high profit on the Leaf they get for the equivalent of a grand). I am not sure if this still is the case with wholesaler deals, but assume so.

        • 0 avatar
          April S

          They would need a new battery pack after these relatively few miles?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I can’t imagine why so many of these were labeled “below” if there wasn’t an systemic issue of some kind (“below” typically indicates a disclosure announcement before sale). I’m just speculating on the battery pack, but something is endemic to these which is killing their resale. If one were to their research, they could probably determine if my speculation is correct, but its def not an “EV” thing. Teslas still retain high resale:

            MY14 Tesla Model S 85

            10/11/16 Manheim Dallas Regular $50,000 14,212 Avg BLACK EL A Yes
            09/29/16 Manheim Palm Beach Lease $48,750 21,296 Avg WHITE EL A Yes
            09/29/16 Manheim Palm Beach Lease $48,000 38,726 Avg GRAY EL A Yes
            09/29/16 Manheim Palm Beach Lease $40,000 63,979 Below RED EL A Yes
            09/28/16 Manheim Seattle Lease $47,500 56,968 Avg GREY EL A Yes
            08/30/16 Manheim Riverside Regular $51,000 27,224 Above BROWN EL A Yes

          • 0 avatar
            SCE to AUX

            @April S:

            “Needing” a new battery pack is a relative thing. Briefly:

            The 2011-16 Leaf is ‘born’ with a battery whose capacity is measured in ‘bars’, and each new Leaf has 12 bars. As the battery ages, it loses bars one by one. The loss of the first bar typically occurs when the battery has lost 15% of its capacity.

            At least on 2011-12 cars, Nissan will replace or restore the battery if it goes below 9 bars’ capacity in under 60k miles. My 2012 was about to lose its first bar of capacity when the 3-year lease ended at 26k miles.

            I’ve seen used Leafs listed with only 8 bars’ capacity. The used car dealers I’ve contacted about this seem unaware they have a dud on their lot. I’ve told them that most Leaf shoppers will know the score on battery aging, and won’t pay 8 grand for such a car, so the dealer either needs to get it fixed, or drop the price dramatically.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @SCE

            Thanks for the info, this explains why the MY12s are such duds and gives an example of one of the perils of being a dealer.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @28-Cars-Later:

            Lots of other reasons to stay away from a ’12 Leaf other than the battery capacity loss – although that’s the main reason.

            I have almost 39k miles on a newer Leaf and still have all twelve bars and I seem to be getting the same range on my twelfth bar as it did when new. That’s about 8 to 9 miles on the route (2/3 secondary road + 1/3 freeway) that I use to measure it. Nissan told me ’13s have the better battery and from what I know personally, late January 14 is good.

            The newer Leafs have other important features that make some significant improvements to the range. I’m a big fan of B mode, which is a more aggressive regen mode. The other must have feature is the heat pump. While in winter, seat heat is my preferred way of keeping warm, I need the A/C in summer. I’ve taken the car many times through heavy slow 128/i95 traffic west of Boston in 90+ degree heat (on a 50-mile one-way trip) and you really don’t notice the range loss with the a/c on. I think it’s about 3%. Also, no overheat issues. In fact, the battery seems happier in the heat, meaning range goes up when it’s hot.

            I recommend going for the newest used Leaf you can find, must have 12 bars, make sure it has CHAdeMO charging, and the telematics can me a life saver if you ever forget to plug it in since it will text you if you forget.

            If you’re looking for a 2nd or 3rd car for a short 20 mile trips, an older Leaf might be an option.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @mcs

            Thanks. I’m sure potential Leaf buyers appreciate the extra information.

        • 0 avatar
          APaGttH

          There are multiple 2013 Nissan Leafs for sale in the Puget Sound area at dealers for under $8K – you can buy them all…day…long.

          Given the green cred in this region shocking to see this kind of depreciation in just 3 years.

          In contrast 2013 Chevy Volts are also widely available – but at close to 2X this price – around $15K — also all….day….long.

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            The Volts have the Energizer Bunny of batteries (boom boom boom).

            (Edit: “Boom” in a good way :-)

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            It’s not explicit that those Volts are actually *selling* all…day…long, only that they’re sitting there with a higher price than the same year’s Leaf.

            I’d wouldn’t expect size 7 men’s shoes to sell much, either, regardless of the discount.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @APaGttH

            If it’s a ’13, make sure it has the CHAdeMO option. It should have B mode and the heat pump. If it has B mode, you’ll see “D/B” marked on the shift pattern diagram next to the shifter.

            Also, if you’re really serious about buying a used Leaf, pick up a phone app called LeafSpy Pro and buy a bluetooth OBDII/CAN device and use it to check the battery health.

  • avatar
    Fred

    I would of thought the Acura TLX would have been in this group, but a local indie dealer with a 2015 V6 Tech and 30,000 miles is asking $32,000. Which is not too far down from a negotiated new price. I’ll add that he has a Porsche 928 for too much money so maybe using him as price gauge is unreasonable.

    • 0 avatar
      BuzzDog

      “I would of thought the Acura TLX would have been in this group…”

      That’s strange, because I would’VE or would HAVE.

      (Forgive me, but that is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me…and I expect no better grammar skills of others than I would OF myself.). :-)

      • 0 avatar
        Fred

        You think my grammar is bad, just be glad there are spell checkers and I know how to use them.

        • 0 avatar
          BuzzDog

          Nah, I don’t think your grammar is bad, and I appreciate you realizing it was said in jest (although that particular phrase is a pet peeve of mine). I just think you’re like the rest of us and get into a hurry; and let’s be realistic, it sounds correct.

          Well, like most of the rest of us…Google instances of “would of” on this site, and a certain Australian’s name pops up dozens, if not hundreds, of times.

          • 0 avatar
            Fred

            No my grammar is bad, it always has been. My math is pretty good so I became an Engineer. ps I miss-spelled gammer twice! I did the last one on purpose

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            “would of”

            That grates on my mental ears – the writer should’ve used the proper contraction: “would’f”.

        • 0 avatar

          @fred

          Eye no ow two use spell check hers to.

  • avatar
    Kenmore

    “Mercedes-Benz C250 (a $15,247 drop)”

    Heh… Das Beste Oder Nichts!

    • 0 avatar
      heavy handle

      The C250 isn’t the one to get from that generation of C-Class. The engine is weak, and it really needs 4Matic to get around in the wet or in the snow.
      As the cheapest C, used examples probably don’t have the options that used Mercedes buyers want.
      The C300 and C350 from that same generation are great cars, and they’ve been reliable.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    This is one reason so many of my vehicle purchases have been used Mopars, or Hyundai/Kia products.

    • 0 avatar
      jacob_coulter

      A single repair can easily out the depreciation advantage vs a similar model with a reputation for quality.

      Plus you’re then you’re stuck with a crappy car where another expensive repair is just around the corner.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        That’s the game, buy the right used product at the right price and avoid the major repair whammy.

        • 0 avatar
          Kenmore

          Or the right new car of humble rank but from a top-quality OEM rather than flashy used junk for close to the same money.

          Be ant, not grasshopper.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Wax on; wax off.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            “humble rank but from a top-quality OEM ”

            Kenmore, whenever I see a Toyota Probox in Russia, I think of you lol

            upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Toyota_Probox_Van_DX.jpg

            I’d say if you want a simple and beyond reliable utilitarian rig here in the US, look no further than lat model Scion xBs. Too bad they’re a little low-slung as far as clearance goes, and there’s no un-hubcapped version with silver steel wheels and fat-sidewall tires.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            I have always been clear and consistent about my druthers :-D

            Must mean I have a small mind!

            (Oh, yes, that Probox is totally me)

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    The issue with the Volvo S60 is although the platform is the same, the motor was changed for MY15.5. So my advice is stick to MY10-14. the base model is as follows:

    MY14 Volvo S60 T5 FWD (base)

    09/08/16 Manheim Riverside Lease $16,500 17,544 Avg GRAY 5GT A No
    10/04/16 Manheim Georgia Regular $19,750 17,844 Above Charcoal 5CY A No
    09/09/16 Manheim Pennsylvania Regular $19,100 28,479 Above WHITE 5GT A No
    09/13/16 Manheim Orlando Lease $16,800 29,815 Avg BLUE 5GT A Yes
    10/10/16 Manheim Orlando Lease $14,350 31,421 Avg BLACK 5GT A No
    09/28/16 Manheim Seattle Lease $12,900 41,572 Below GREY 5GT A No
    09/08/16 Manheim Fredericksburg Regular $14,500 52,299 Avg BLACK 5GT A Yes

    I think these were about 35K retail, so a 50% loss is in line with most domestic “luxury” (Buick specifically comes to mind). If you want to deal with the stupidity of FWD Volvo, this isn’t a horrible proposition at the right price.

    Additional: For some perspective, I was quoted 5K for an MY04 Expedition/121K (from Florida so no rot/rust!) and $5500 for an MY04 S80/180K, clean, with new timing belts and tranny/awd fluids. So to step into the lower miles S60 nearly new for say 15-17, isn’t horrible for what it is so to speak.

    This message brought to you by 28-Cars-Later, your resident armchair dealer. Tip jar is over there *points*.

    • 0 avatar
      Sjalabais

      The S/V60 is among Europe’s most reliable cars. They have firm resale values. Just another occasion for me to envy the American automobile reality.

      But why “stupidity” of FWD Volvos?

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        This 244 owner has seen many an issue with the early P2s and 850s. Based on higher resale alone the P3 seems to have gotten better but in my view, Volvo should have went back to RWD.

    • 0 avatar
      boost135

      As legendary as the I-5 is, I might not be able to pass up the 29 MPG avg. that comes with the 4 and 8-speed Aisin. Could you share the 2015 and 2015.5 data, 28cars?

  • avatar
    cgjeep

    I’m surprised there are no VWs on the list. There is a 2015 Jetta SE with the 1.8 turbo selling near me for $11,800 at a good dealer.

  • avatar
    pb35

    You could say “I’ll beat the deprecion because I’ll keep it for 10 years.” Perhaps with any other car, but I’ve had my XC90 for almost 10 years now and it’s needed about $20k in repairs over that time (warranty and non-warranty).

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      Amen. Loved our S70 but frankly we couldn’t afford it’s repairs or lack of reliability after 70k miles (5 years old, needed $9800 of a/c, ABS, computer and electrical work). Fled back to Toyota.

      Which was too bad – I always thought the XC90 was a great looking vehicle, and test drove the XC70 several times before I bought my Subaru. Just couldn’t risk it again.

      The 500L? For $15k I’d certainly take a shot at it….

    • 0 avatar
      jacob_coulter

      Wow! $20k in repairs, I would have dropped it after the first $10k.

      Good to know as my wife wants a new Volvo XC90 and I was pretty insistent that it needed to be leased and then dumped. Looks like my instincts were right.

      Too bad, my Volvo 240 was a tank and ultra reliable. Just a much different company back then.

      • 0 avatar
        dahammer

        Lease a new XC90 or buy a used one that’s 4 years old and let someone else take a hit on the depreciation. But find a local mechanic because a dealer will call you Ben Dover.

        As for another Volvo with poor depreciation, check out the S80.

        • 0 avatar
          don1967

          Yup, my 2012 S80 was half price by the time I bought it in 2014 with low miles. Not an exciting car, but drive it 100 miles through a snowstorm – even the 2wd version – and you’re hooked.

          I did experience some trepidation about buying a used Volvo, but fragile electrical systems and crappy GM transmissions are largely confined to older models like the S70 and first-gen S80/XC90 mentioned above. Post-2005 redesigns seem to suffer only trivial and/or random issues. So far mine has experienced only one warranty claim, for a defective windshield seal.

      • 0 avatar
        heavy handle

        Keep in mind, that’s Ford-era Volvo he’s talking about. All of that stuff has worked its way out of the system by now.

        Current Volvos use “Drive-E” 4 cylinder engines and Aisin (Japanese) transmissions. They also use common electronics. It’s too early to have a final verdict on the new powertrain (no signs of premature failure), but the least one can say is that Volvo is “all-in.” You are unlikely to come across the Ford-era excuse of “they only made that particular model with that engine/transmission/awd/electronics combination for eight weeks in ’07, we can’t find your parts.”

        • 0 avatar
          gtemnykh

          Heavy, the transmissions have always been Aisin (for the most part). The trouble in the early 2000s was Volvo’s programming of them. Something about how the car went into some kind of neutral state when standing in drive with the brake applied to minimize creep (?) A lot of burned up transmissions, solved for ’03 or ’04 on the S60 as I recall.

          The continued issues are of electrical nature, just like they are for every other module laden European. Not sure if they’ve gotten better at interiors now, my fiance’s 04 S60 was a mess by the time we sold in back in ’14 with 124k miles on it. It also had an SRS airbag light and a totally on-the-fritz dash info display (bad solder joints). Add that to the noisy/worn front end and some cold-start issues, and I was not terribly impressed with it. Super tight rear seat, uncomfortable even for someone 5’11” to sit behind another person of that same height. Fantastically comfortable highway cruiser though, and excellent paint and corrosion protection.

          • 0 avatar
            heavy handle

            gtemnykh,

            Volvo’s early 2000s transmission problem happened when Volvo was using GM transmissions. Ironically, GM-owned Saab, 100km down the road, was using Aisin automatics at the time.

            Volvo probably went with the GM automatic because their inline 6 did not leave enough room for a better unit.

            BBA Reman offers cheap and permanent fixes for the info display issue (as they do for electronics issues on most brands).

            Other than that, front-end wear and cold start issues seem like maintenance. I’m surprised that the interior didn’t last. Leather or fabric? The ones I’ve seen from that era have much tougher interiors than contemporary Japanese cars. I haven’t seen one yet with collapsed seat foam, worn-out fabric, or a peeling steering wheel.

          • 0 avatar
            don1967

            Early-2000s Volvos used a GM tranmission. But yes, it is widely suspected the programming (and possibly the load rating) applied by Volvo was part of the problem.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            heavy I think you’re referring to the 4T65E transmission in the S80, which indeed got a well deserved bad reputation when saddled to the T6 motor.

            Going back all the way to the 200/700 series ‘bricks,’ it’s always been Aisin automatics. Volvo used the 4spd Aisin AW50 in the 850s, and then 5sd AF33 automatic since the S70 (also used in Saabs) in most of their range. Again, I think the big issue was their faulty programming. Once they figured that out, they are perfectly long lived units.

            Interior was leather, and yes part of it was neglect I’m sure, but the amount of cracking and peeling was unreal. The other interior wear issues was the rubberized coating on the plastic door card trim and dash starting to flake off a lot. Outside plastic trim around the windshield and rear glass was cracking and falling off.

            Cold start issue was traced to some sort of known fuel injection issue.

            Front end, yes that is ultimately a wear item. But to need ball joints and tie rod ends, and have noisy spring perches (or strut mounts?) by 115k miles seems premature. My 20 year old 204k ES300 has an entirely tight and sound front end, driven in the same region/climate.

        • 0 avatar
          don1967

          In fairness the quality improvements – including the switch to Aisin transmissions – began during Ford’s ownership.

          My only beef is the random inclusion of what appears to be old-Ford interior switch gear in my “flagship” Volvo. I swear that if you remove the reading light buttons, you will expose not a precision-engineered spring mechanism but rather bits of wadded-up Kleenex.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            don, like I mentioned, even the old 200/700 series brick Volvos use Aisin automatics, as do the pre-Ford 850 series FWD models. I think transmission choice was independent of Ford control.

          • 0 avatar
            Lightspeed

            Had an 850 wagon, worst car ever. You could see how Volvo engineered a nice chassis and decent engine, then flat ran out of money to engineer or buy proper parts for any other system on the car – PCV, HVAC, lighting, switches, seat tracks, fabrics, plastics – all junk. Owned it for 10-months paid $2,700 for a low mileage example with full history, sold it for $1,000 and was glad to be rid of it.

  • avatar
    dahammer

    [Thanks for the info, this explains why the MY12s are such duds and gives an example of one of the perils of being a dealer.]

    Everyone pays for their education.

    Agree with MY14 Volvo S60, the 2.5 turbo has been around for awhile. But, It looks like the wholesale price is much higher in Pennsylvania than in Orlando. I’m the second owner of a 2005 S60 2.5T FWD, bought it two years ago, it’s been great. No worse handling in the snow than any other FWD car I’ve owned.

    As for the S70, had two of ’em, both 1998’s bought in ’09 and ’10. We’re talking $3k cars, but I would rather have my kids driving an S70 than a Toyota.

  • avatar
    peeryog

    Odd that the Tacoma is not on the list as it seems to top everyone else’s list. The good list that is.

    • 0 avatar
      87 Morgan

      I concur, if asked I would have said 4Runner and Taco for the resale value win. I see Range Rover was indicated as being near the top for resale. Good thing i was not asked to wager on this as I might have lost a limb or two.

  • avatar

    Getting a minor service at the cad dlr. Lot is full of clean off lease ATS and CTS for half price or less of new…and there are zero Escalade and few SRX to be seen new or used.

    ATS with sport package, AWD and the six….23k, for 19k miles.

  • avatar
    56BelAire

    One month ago I bought a 2015 Chrysler 300, V-6, AWD, 9,000 miles, absolutely showroom new for $20K cash. The lady gave me the original MSRP sticker $38,800.

    Luv, luv, luv it so far.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Hope it treats you well.

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      I saw somewhat similar deals at a local Dodge place, took a ’16 Charger SXT with 15k miles out for a test drive that was marked at $25k, salesman let me know that they could let it go for $20k plus tax/tag. There’s no denying the ‘bang for the buck’ appeal of these LX cars. They drive like a million bucks IMO, 8spd+pentastar is a very well matched combo. I thought it’d drive me nuts with shifting all the time, but around town it was just about perfect.

      Now, if only it had a Toyota badge on the hood…

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        The Challenger I drove all over Ohio really annoyed me with always shifting up too often. I need power NOW, I don’t want to wait for you to go up to 5th or 6th at low speed, then go “Oh okay!” and come back down to second.

        If I’m doing 18mph, you shouldn’t be in 4th.

        • 0 avatar
          56BelAire

          @28cars, gtem, and corey,

          Shame it is so late in this thread. maybe I’ll write up a review and submit it.

          Long story short. I actually made my original post from on a trip in Jackson, WY. We started from Riverton, UT on Friday, 10/21, went to Jasckson Hole, Yellowstone NP, returned thru Rock Springs, WY and back to Riverton. Total miles driven 1,405, fuel economy for entire trip, 29.6mpg as per trip computer.

          Car is amazing, love the powertrain. The V-6 is very strong and responsive, the long mountain grades meant nothing, the 8-speed auto was amazing as well, I found none of this “hunting for gears” people write about.

          Very quiet inside, even at 80+mph, zero wind noise, a little tire noise depending of pavement, smooth pavement…no tire noise.

          I will try to write a nice detailed review in the next few days comparing it to my much loved 2009 Caddy DTS.

  • avatar
    Truckducken

    What, no rambling comments about how small diesel pickups from Down Under would totally change the nature of depreciation?

  • avatar
    Lightspeed

    Am surprised the 4Runner wasn’t at the top of the lowest depreciation list. Around here, the older they are the more they are going up in price, regardless of condition.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      Keep in mind their data sample was less than a year for this, so you’re only really going to get results on 2015 and 2016 cars because that’s all that sells in large enough volume to make such a list.

      Stuff before 2015 is going to have a sample size too small.

  • avatar
    Chan

    A 500L with either the stick or the 6AT is a steal for a compact family car. Yes, the interior is a bit cheap but it’s better than anything else you can get in the low $20s. Plus, uConnect rocks.

    I have the DCT version and would advise against it. It’s programmed to auto-creep because FCA thinks Americans are too dumb to adapt to the lack thereof. Creeping a DCT is awful for the clutch unless you proactively prevent it from happening.

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