By on July 21, 2016

Accord-2

Everything old is new again: for the first time since the demise of the LX-i hatch some 28 years ago, there is going to be a fastback-profiled Accord in American Honda showrooms. The remarkably unhelpful spy shots show a wide, low rear window that wouldn’t be out of place on a first-generation Toyota Camry but which in the public imagination is currently more closely associated with the Audi A7 “four-door koo-pay”.

There’s no solid information yet on what powertrains will motivate this new Civic-derived Accord, but the general consensus is that we have seen the last of the J35 SOHC V6 engine in this application. Future upscale Accords will likely hew to the modern 2.0-liter turbo four-banger line as seen everywhere from Kia to, er, Hyundai. It’s more than a little depressing to see Honda’s traditional leadership philosophy fall apart like this. The company that once shocked the world with the Accord hatchback now waits to see what the Koreans do and then falls in line behind them.

We do, however, have one last model year of the current Accord left to run. Which means that there’s still time for Honda to assert its traditional values and send a love letter to the hooligans, street racers, and adjunct professors who have supported the brand over the past forty years — and they can do it without so much as a letter to the EPA.

It’s been a relatively slow year for my 2013 Honda Accord V6; I’ve put just six thousand miles on the car since the middle of January. That’s entirely because of my travel schedule and because it’s easier to park a motorcycle in downtown Columbus than it is to find a space for a car. I’m in no way sick of the car and I’ll be posting an update on my ownership experience next week. The longer I have the Accord, the more I appreciate it.

The combination of the hopped-up J35Y3 engine and the slick six-speed manual that Honda has offered in the Accord coupe over the past three model years is, in my opinion, the greatest enthusiast-oriented powertrain currently available in anything south of the Coyote-powered Mustang GT. It has a tremendous amount of area under the curve, so to speak, but it is also eager to rev to the limiter in every gear with very little flywheel effect and none of the emissions-oriented fueling artifacts that plagued manual-equipped six-cylinder BMWs and Audis. Everybody who drives the car loves the engine and at least likes the transmission, which is about as good as any cable-equipped FWD transaxle is going to be in terms of shift effort and accuracy.

The only real problem with the V6/6MT combination is, to be frank, the car in which it’s supplied. The Accord Coupe is an acquired taste aimed mostly at older women, permanently single librarians of both sexes, and those of us who remember the 1977 Cutlass Supreme with fondness, not aversion. It works very well for me, being spacious enough for four adults and slightly easier to park than its sedan sibling, but we now live in an era where perceived capability rules the roost and the perceived capability of a two-door car, no matter how much interior room and usability it truly offers, worries potential buyers. There’s something odd about the idea that we have never been more truly alone in society, as individuals, than we are right now, yet everybody worries constantly about being able to fit six people in their cars.

But I digress. It doesn’t matter why coupes represent just the very tip of the Accord sales iceberg. That’s not going to change. So what Honda needs to do, for the 2017 model year that will mark the end of this platform’s run, is a very simple thing. Drop the V6 6MT powertrain into the Accord sedan.

We haven’t had a full-strength Accord sedan since the “red badge” six-speed V6 four-doors of 2006 and 2007, but there’s no technical reason why such a car cannot exist. The powertrain is already certified. It’s just a matter of putting a sedan body beneath the robot that drops it in.

In a perfect world, we’d have a stripped-out Accord LX V6/6MT for $24,995 — a sort of Plymouth RoadRunner for the 21st century — but it’s hard to imagine Honda doing anything but just extending the EX-L V6 manual trim level to the sedan. All the pieces already fit. The pricing strategy would be logical.

Such a car wouldn’t set any sales records, but I can’t help but think that it would out-sell my coupe. Nor would it terribly cannibalize existing auto-transmission Accord V6 sales. I think it would instead prey on the customers for entry-level BMW, Audi, and Mercedes sedans who would relish the idea of having a sports sedan of recognized provenance for under $35,000. It would hold its own with any CLA, A4 2.0T, or 320i in any kind of test you could dream up. In truth, it would be better to drive than those very compromised vinyl-seat cheapskate-mobiles.

At the very least, you’d get the business of the red-badge ’07 owners who probably need a new car by now, but you’d also likely see showroom traffic from all the people who had Integras and the like before their children and their careers arrived. Which perhaps explains why Honda won’t do it; a V6 6MT Accord sedan would make the TLX four-cylinder look pretty weak-sauce. So what. It’s not like any of the Integra Type-R crowd gets excited about the TLX anyway. Give them an option.

If Honda does this thing, as they say, I’ll buy one and I’ll put my deposit down the day it’s announced. I won’t be alone. What say you, Honda? Before you turn the Accord into a Me Too Iguana Kia Optima or wanna-be A7, howabout you show some love, and some respect, for the people who put you where you are today? Or would you rather wait for Hyundai to make something like that, so you can copy it?

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121 Comments on “Alright, Honda, Let’s Do This Before It’s Too Late Forever...”


  • avatar
    runs_on_h8raide

    Not a Hellcat….not interested. Do a supercharged Hemi swap with an Accuair suspension rolling on duece-dueces, and then maybe Honda would have something.

  • avatar
    PeriSoft

    Hey, I’m down with a wannabe A7. Serve it up! But maybe ditch that bizarre double-screen infotainment setup, eh?

  • avatar
    MBella

    I support that idea. I would probably buy one, since it would likely be the last incarnation of anything similar.

  • avatar
    ajla

    “prey on the customers for entry-level BMW, Audi, and Mercedes sedans who would relish the idea of having a sports sedan”

    Haha. These people don’t care about “sports sedans”, engine displacement, engine aspiration, or manual transmissions. They just want a lease payment around $300 a month and to not drive a car popular with deli-rocking middle-aged Ohio dads. Plus, most of them are going for CUVs now anyway.

    Also, you should be owning a Viper.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Dear Jack,

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Enjoy your coupe.

    Sincerely,
    American Honda

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      “Such a car wouldn’t set any sales records, but I can’t help but think that it would out-sell my coupe.”

      Sure, instead of 14 units they’d sell about 22. I don’t see the problem here.

      When I bought my Accord Sport 6MT sedan last year, most of the salesmen walked by the office I was in to have a look at me. That, coupled with the fact that my car was one of about 98 Accords on the lot with a manual, told me that this is somewhat of a niche market car at this point.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Just don’t utter the “C” word – Crosstour.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    The question would be whether to put that deposit down on the last-year 6MT Accord V6 or the last-year Chevy SS. I’m not being patronizing to the Accord when I say that each has its strong points and it’s not an easy decision, especially since the Accord would be $15k cheaper. Haters step up now: I think the J35 is a more satisfying engine than the LS3.

    But I think in the end the SS would have to win, mostly because it has wonderful suspension and steering tuning that a FWD Accord, as good as it is by FWD standards, can’t quite match, and also partly because it has real brakes from the factory.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “I think the J35 is a more satisfying engine than the LS3.”

      Well, I like the Honda v6 a lot but I still respectfully disagree.

      I’d personally go for the SS without so much as a second thought to the Accord, but you already owned the G8 GXP so I don’t know in your case.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        The LS3’s best attributes are sound and low-end torque. But it doesn’t breathe all that well at the high end until modified — particularly in Holden tune — and it lacks refinement. Mine vibrated the whole car at idle, had occasional light piston slap on cold start, and occasionally stumbled in very hot air. Those things come across as part of the car’s charm, especially with the classic small-block noise, but the truth is the engine could be a bit better. As I’ve said before, the best things about my G8 weren’t the powertrain but the steering, suspension, and brakes.

        The J35 is about the most refined engine you’ll find that’s not in a perfectly balanced arrangement.

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          The Honda V6 is a sweetheart, but it just isn’t powerful enough to sway me over the LS3.

          I’ve played around with a friend’s automatic Accord V6 sedan and my mostly stock R/T nips it on anything above 55 and can pull on it from a roll. I don’t massacre it or anything, but an SS *would* massacre me.

    • 0 avatar
      Adam Tonge

      SS. V8, manual transmission, magnetic ride control.

      So long as the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger exist, no one besides Jack will weep for the Accord V6 Coupe.

      • 0 avatar
        Kevin Jaeger

        Yes, this. As much as I respect the V6 Accord Coupe I’ll stick with my Mustang, thanks.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        Part of the reason the Accord V6 coupe can make a case for itself is that the Camaro and Challenger (and to a lesser degree the Mustang) make such huge unforced errors. The visibility in the Camaro, the porcine or maritime (take your pick) nature of the Challenger, and the useless-back-seat packaging of all three.

        Despite being FWD it’s also a better driver than the base trims of at least the Mustang and Challenger (haven’t driven a rental-grade ’16 Camaro yet). Those cars don’t get good until you start adding options, lots of options in the Challenger’s case.

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          Now, if I was some fancy big city lawyer I’d just get the CTS-v or GS-F.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            All the money that might be used on one of those cars ends up going instead to a mortgage on a one-room tin-roof shack. Well, I’m exaggerating, but only a little; such is coastal city life. That, and repaying the cost of the law degree bit by bit.

        • 0 avatar

          The challenger’s back seat seems mighty close size wise to the Accord coupe. I think the camaro is the best driver of the 3 but for me I’m more a GT guy so I would choose the challenger for my sporty coupe (and 3 kids) For value I really like the Genesis coupe over the Accord.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    As a lover of all things hatchback I would have bought this without blinking had it been offered…in 2005.

    My motor pool is filled out – but I really like this. The world needs more 5-doors.

    Oh, and the A7, ya I get it is a less efficient laid out, over priced, smaller rear seat in the head room department A6 – but that thing is just sex on wheels.

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      A7 look: Malibu. A 2.0T: Malibu LTZ. Ask Bark M., Honda has its work cut out for them.

    • 0 avatar
      ctg

      Is it actually a 5-door? Jack describes it as “fastback-profiled” and nothing in the Car and Driver story references a hatch/liftback.

      Also, looking at the spy shots, it seems like the cammo is set up so you can open a trunk, not lift a hatch.

      Disappointingly, I suspect that it will be just like the Civic–looks like it should be a liftback, but actually a sedan with a mailslot trunk.

      Edit: noticed that Jack agrees, below, that it will have fastback styling but not 5 doors.

  • avatar
    TOTitan

    My sisters 13 Accord eats front rotors…they are just way too undersized. I kept thinking about her experience with Honda when deciding on a new daily driver so I bought a 16 Golf Sportwagen SE tsi and put a Neuspeed Power Module on it. Its just as, if not more than fun to drive, and a hell of a lot more useful. My wife has her choice of driving our 335d or the Sportwagen. She almost always takes the wagon.

    • 0 avatar
      yamahog

      There are ways to drive Hondas to reduce the front rotor wear – it usually involves not braking half the time in stop and go traffic. And cryo treated rotors seem to hold up very well to any sort of driving.

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      Ask Jack B about Accord brakes and floor mats that where holes. Only the later he’ll talk publicly about.

      • 0 avatar
        TOTitan

        I dont know why Honda thinks small brakes will do. My VW has big brakes. My 335d has huge brakes. Warped rotors dont happen which is a good thing because IMHO brakes are the most important part of any vehicle.

        • 0 avatar
          Zykotec

          A much higher percentage of VW’s cars drive on the Autobahn compared to Hondas. Almost no Accord has ever had to regularly use its brakes at speeds exceeding 100mph.
          But, with a much higher percentage of Hondas cars being autos they really have a job to do here.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            I think part of the problem is not cost cutting, but rather weight cutting. Thinner rotors are lighter, same for smaller batteries.

            A/C has traditionally been underspec’d for the American climate, my dad’s ’07 Fit with its big windows and black interior couldn’t quite keep up even during sunny days in the mid 80s in Central NY. Now I think they’ve fixed that, starting with at least my ’12 Civic. I consider the 9th gen Civic to be the first truly American-approved generation of the car in the sense that the AC is more than adequate and the suspension was softened up a fair amount. My brakes also were completely un-warped after 53k miles, albeit it spent most of its life out in flat Central Indiana, and I’m a pretty conservative and efficient driver that tries to time traffic lights. The battery in that Civic was tiny. It seemed to barely crank the car over in the very cold “polar vortex” winters of ’13 and ’14 when temperatures dropped to the single digits, but to its credit it never failed to actually start. And it was my fiance’s 2012 Camry’s much larger battery that inexplicably failed at 3 years of age and 50k miles, not the tiny Civic unit.

        • 0 avatar

          For at least the last decade and a half Honda has pretty consistently undersized brakes, AC components and batteries. Not sure why they don’t fix it but I hear these pretty often from Honda driving relatives and co workers.

          • 0 avatar

            “undersized brakes, AC components and batteries”
            2 things, 1st, all car companies do that, I mean, none luxury brands, 2nd, I had a 2014 Accord Sport, no problem with brakes or A/C, only the CVT would not respond as soon as you start the car but only for a very short time.
            My current car is a 2016 accord EX, still only 4 month old but the A/C is defiantly doing it’s job now, stuck in traffic in 95 degrees weather.

          • 0 avatar

            None of this would prevent me from buying one, but Honda does seem to do some odd cost cutting. The brakes have been mentioned by Jack before and it comes up a lot with friends who have Odysseys. On AC there was a Piston Slap article about it, as I recall civics CRV’s and some Acuras were known to have an issue with premature compressor failure. There was a # of lawsuits as I recall. The battery I have heard of from several people they tell me not to expect the factory battery to last much longer then 3 years.

          • 0 avatar
            Zykotec

            On my 3rd CR-V and can confirm all three. Maaively expensive A/C failure on my ’07, warped brake disks on my current ’02 and the battery is ridicilously small (45Ah). In our cold climate you really need to make sure your kids didn’t turn on the interior light if you’re letting the car stand still for two days in a row.

    • 0 avatar
      slance66

      That’s nothing new. Every Accord made since the late 80’s eats front rotors. My wife’s former RX350 would eat them too (definitely too small for that application).

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        My parents’ 09 RX350 was bought with warped rotors at 15k miles. Dealer put on some cheap Centric pieces and they are warped again a few years later.

        • 0 avatar
          slance66

          Ours went through 3 or 4 wheel bearings too. It’s one of the reasons I was reluctant to replace it with a newer version of the same. It doesn’t seem to have been made any more robust. It’s a big heavy thing riding on Camry underpinnings.

  • avatar
    abhi

    That second to last paragraph describes me somewhat – had both a Civic and an Integra (2). I did sway from my Honda past by buying a GTI in 06, not an overall pleasant experience but you know lessons learned and all that.

    That being said my wife is pushing for an AT replacement when the VW gets too expensive to keep for my main vehicle , I could be swayed into the 6mt on an Accord V6.

  • avatar
    Kenmore

    ” howabout you show some love, and some respect, for the people who put you where you are today?”

    Yeah, and France won WWII.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      They kinda did.

      -Permanent seat on the UN Security Council (with veto power).
      -Allowed to develop *and* keep nuclear weapons/associated technologies.
      -Allowed to keep possessions after WWII.
      -Still maintains some overseas colonies.
      -Started events which led to the breakup of the Bretton Woods system and thus radically changed world economics.

      This after they lost two World Wars and some collaborated with the enemy (Vichy gov’t).

      • 0 avatar
        Kenmore

        France’s coddling after WWII is #2 on my list of Gobsmacking Strategic Mysteries.

        #1 is Truman and recognizing and arming Israel when his every senior civilian and military advisor said “Mr. President, Sir, are you f*cking serious?”

        • 0 avatar
          Fred

          France is lovely country. Our history with France goes back to the Revolutionary War. They are also being punished by ISIS. That’s enough for me to be on their side and to help them when they ask for it.

          • 0 avatar
            Eyeflyistheeye

            The French are a bunch of pansy cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

            But yes, every true American knows that we owe a debt of gratitude to the French and have their back, even though we’ll be damned to admit it.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “The French are a bunch of pansy cheese-eating surrender monkeys.”

            no, they weren’t.

          • 0 avatar
            TrailerTrash

            General Patton: I would Rather Have The Germans In Front Of Me Than The French Behind Me

            I remember how sweet the move was they made in 1950s Vietnam…
            Standing next to them …they suddenly asked us to “hold this” handing off their gun, went off to get a croissant and glass of wine and never came back.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            “pansy cheese-eating surrender monkeys”

            I’m fine with the cheese-eating part.

            And Laughing Cow fromagerie is fookin fabulous.

          • 0 avatar
            Fred

            @Trailer Trash “I remember how sweet the move was they made in 1950s Vietnam…
            Standing next to them …they suddenly asked us to “hold this” handing off their gun, went off to get a croissant and glass of wine and never came back.”
            Walking away from Vietnam was was probably a smart thing to do. I wish I had.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I would like to know what was being smoked when the decisions on France were being made post WWII. My hunch is immediately following the conflict there was a need for an established army on the continent should Stalin decide to get cute. Otherwise the US Army couldn’t withdraw from occupied West Germany.

          As to your #1, Truman wasn’t going to allow Herzl’s project to fold.

          • 0 avatar
            PrincipalDan

            Why else choose Charles de Gaulle?

            There was a benevolent elected dictator if the world ever knew one.

            Clementine Churchill: “General, you must not hate your friends more than you hate your enemies”

            De Gaulle (in English): “France has no friends, only interests.”

          • 0 avatar

            Like said above as much as we hate to admit it we often side with the French and a long time ago they did help us a bit. Another issue is the physical positioning of the country if you want every one to play by your rules in Europe France is very good ally to have. Especially at the time no one could have known what would happen in post war Germany and Italy, France would be seen as a safer leader of a new Europe.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @mopar4x4

            Good points.

            @PrincipalDan

            “benevolent elected dictator”

            I think the Turks are going to be the latest to experience that, except they forgot the “benevolent” part on their order.

          • 0 avatar
            PrincipalDan

            I could certainly see Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (President of Turkey) borrowing de Gaulle’s quote.

            But then historically if you are in the area between Asia, Europe, and Africa you have no friends, only interests.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            That fool is gonna get himself smoked eventually if he keeps it up but his auto-coup was brilliant. Took a page from my hero Fujimori, although in his case the 1992 auto-coup was done so he could fight (and later defeat) Shining Path.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Peruvian_constitutional_crisis

            Erdo is consolidating his dictatorial power and is speculated to be attempting to establish a new Ottoman Empire (and subsequently a new Caliphate). Based on what the WH/State Department did in Egypt with Muslim Brotherhood, I would say Erdo has the full clandestine support of the Obamanation. However it will be interesting should we get an actual President who abandons the proxy war in Syria. My guess is Turkey goes completely to sh*t in any scenario.

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      Baruth brothers have sniffed too many manufacturing fumes from Marysville.

    • 0 avatar

      The French had solid soldiers in WWII–some of whom fought ferociously, and to the death–but was besieged by bad technology in their armor (no radios in the tanks, for example, at least early on), and leadership who still thought WWI’s strategies were relevant. No understanding of combined arms tactics.

      Even so, it wasn’t so much that France sucked, but that she happened to be a major land power virtually next door to men out to get even for how she screwed them over following WWI, and those same men were fantastic strategists, with a keen understanding of modern warfare (I’m not talking about Hitler, but rather Guderian and the like). Someone on the continent was going to get the brunt of the German onslaught first, and France happened to be it.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        yep. The Treaty of Versailles is why I lean towards the mindset that there really wasn’t “WWI” and “WWII,” but one “Great War” with a 20-year cease-fire.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I agree.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            it’s interesting to remember that the U.S. (at least as expressed by Pres. Wilson) was against harshly penalizing Germany after the end, but was out-maneuvered by Britain and France, who wanted to grind Germany’s face into the dirt. Which they did, and we know who used that to ascend to power.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I can’t cite anything simply because there were so many sources over the years but I am truly starting to wonder if the whole first conflict was planned in the late 19th to early 20th Century while the second was simply an extension of unfinished business of the first.

            The other interesting point I can make based on your point was the British and French insistence on the Treaty of Versailles. Versailles created chaos in Germany, which weakened the country and left it in a position where several Bolshevik uprisings actually took place (these facts are often left out). In response to this the paramilitary Freikorps was formed and put down these rebellions. NSDAP later allied with the Freikorps and absorbed them into its ranks after 1933 (subsequently murdering its old leadership in 1934’s Night of the Long Knives). Without the Freikorps, two things happen: 1) You probably don’t get the NSDAP in power at all and 2) there is a good chance of a Bolshevik government taking over whats left of the German empire in 1919/20. I do wonder if the second point was an intended consequence of the French and British.

            “The meaning of the word Freikorps changed over time. After 1918, the term was used for the paramilitary organizations that sprang up around Germany as soldiers returned in defeat from World War I. They were the key Weimar paramilitary groups active during that time. Many German veterans felt disconnected from civilian life, and joined a Freikorps in search of stability within a military structure. Others, angry at their sudden, apparently inexplicable defeat, joined up in an effort to put down communist uprisings, such as the Spartacist uprising, or exact some form of revenge. They received considerable support from Minister of Defense Gustav Noske, a member of the Social Democratic Party of Germany, who used them to crush the German Revolution of 1918–19 and the Marxist Spartacist League and arrest Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg, who were killed on 15 January 1919. They were also used to defeat the Bavarian Soviet Republic in May 1919.[4]”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freikorps

  • avatar
    everybodyhatesscott

    I’d buy one too. But since we’re in lala land, I’ll pretend Mazda decides to throw a better power train in the 6 (with a manual) and I’ll buy that instead.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      I’d say that the chance of a turbo manual trans Mazda 6 is much better than the chance of a V6 manual transmission Accord sedan.

      • 0 avatar
        PlaysInTraffic

        “I’d say that the chance of a turbo manual trans Mazda 6 is much better than the chance of a V6 manual transmission Accord sedan.”

        This.

        Jack must be hitting the pipe to think that Honda would offer a V6/6MT sedan in the last year of the 9th Gen. They won’t even put paddle or manual control of the automatic on the V6 sedan, even though they offer it in the coupe.

        Honda has lost it, it’s not the carmaker we used to like; it’s the reanimated corpse of that company.

        Only problem is, I don’t know what to do other than find an ’07 Accord V6/6MT sedan to buy. No one else offers this configuration, either.

        Thanks US government!

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Please show evidence that the US government controls automakers to prevent them from offering the exact specifications you prefer, but for which there is minimal consumer demand.

  • avatar
    tbp0701

    I like this idea. I last went car shopping in 2012 as my 2000 Accord Coupe was approaching 250K miles. I first looked at Hondas and Acuras but was mainly disappointed in what I found. The only manual Accord in the area, new or used, was a Coupe previously owned by a sloppy chain-smoker who had an affinity for gold hardware and pinstripes and managed to burn out the clutch in under 30K miles. So I wound up buying a Mazda 3 instead (and no rust so far in four years/70K miles).

    I did find a couple first gen TSXs that came close, however. Take that car, add a V6 and keep the excellent feeling stick shift, keep the price reasonable and it’d be a terrific sleeper: engaging and quick, but practical and comfortable. If that car had been available I probably would have bought one.

  • avatar
    Fred

    I’m not seeing any mention of a hatch. If not then it’s just styling exercise. If so then I’m interested.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      Looking at the current Civic, I wouldn’t expect the fastback Accord to have a hatch.

    • 0 avatar
      brettc

      An Accord hatch that’s done right would be a useful car. I keep seeing stuff about the upcoming Civic hatch, but with the slope of the hatch door, that thing looks less useful for swallowing cargo than the current Civic sedan.

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    I have an even better idea. Imagine that same powertrain in a car with literally 95% of the Accord’s usable space and an honest 400-500lbs lopped off its curb weight?

    Yes, that’s right, I’m suggesting Honda do the age old tried and true formula for hot rod success and put that big V6 in the Civic. They could even gussy it up and only put it in the next ILX, as long as they offer it with a stick and god honest mechanical LSD. Let’s face facts- there were V6 Accords that are smaller than today’s Civic, at least inside. It’s time. The market is ready.

    Truthfully, I would prefer them bring back the J30 from the old CL-S and pair it with an emissions-friendly light-ish weight IMA system. Hell, let the electrics power the rear wheels. The Accord is like the 5 series of Honda’s lineup, in that it’s grown way too big to retain any kind of sporting credibility anymore. I am worried that by going off the Civic platform they may wrong size it compared to the competition and potentially knock it off its pedestal. As is a V6 Civic would not be far off in specs from a 4th gen Maxima, albeit with about 50% more HP at least. And such a move would really help differentiate from the “sound symposed beware of low speed pre ignition rank and file 2.0T” offered by its competition.

    Accord got too big for its britches with the 7th gen IMO.

    • 0 avatar
      2drsedanman

      I would love to see a V6 Civic. Hopefully that would spur Toyota to drop their 3.5 V6 and a 6-speed manual into the Corolla.To go with the sleeper vibe, put those combos in plain, steel wheeled four door sedans with roll up windows. I can smell the tire smoke now………….

  • avatar
    economist

    I would trade in my TL and buy one in a heartbeat. A stick-shift V6 Accord sedan is the only car that would make me consider a new car payment at this point.

  • avatar
    Stumpaster

    I’d probably lease it instead of Civic stick. Better than buying a used TL stick.

  • avatar
    Car Ramrod

    I’d bite. Lack of a stick in the V6 accord sedan is the whole reason I bought a TL a dozen years ago.

  • avatar
    philadlj

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong in sitting back and waiting to see if the Koreans made the right choice in getting rid of V6s.

    The Koreans did a BETA TEST for Honda, which largely succeeded, and now Honda is committing.

    It’s a pragmatic move by a motor company that’s always been pragmatic. Unlike Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, and Kia, they’re not aiming at Number One At All Costs.

    They’re concerned with making a good product people want, will buy, and will buy again. Hyundai and Kia will never be able to touch the quality (real or perceived) and heritage of Honda.

    Indeed, it was and is Hyundai and Kia selling Toyota and Honda knockoffs – poor ones I’d never touch with a ten-foot stick.

    I speak from experience. Over the last fourteen years my family has logged over a million miles in seven Hondas. Not a single service for engine or transmission trouble.

    Honda has done just fine resting on its laurels, but along with the new NSX and Civic, the upcoming Accord will undoubtedly show the world that Honda still has it, and never lost it.

    Power of Dreams, Jackie my boy. Power. Of. Dreams.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Right – which is why both Hyundai and Kia have managed to top AutoBild’s reliability rankings.

      And count your family lucky for not having experienced the “glass” Honda 6-spd AT or nowadays, troubles with certain new transmissions.

    • 0 avatar
      mtmmo

      philadlj – I couldn’t agree more. In the past six years between my wife and I we’ve had 2 Accords and 2 Sonata’s as company vehicles. All fully loaded with 4 cylinder engines. The Accords are far better engineered and built. The biggest shock and disappointment is the lack of refinement with the Hyundai drivetrains. An Accord with 70,000 miles feels tighter than a Hyundai with 25,000 miles. Don’t even get me started on the Hyundai knobs and switches…

    • 0 avatar
      Maymar

      Also, let’s not forget the Sonata had an available V6 a whopping 5 years before the Accord (the same year you could still buy a carbureted Accord).

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        That’s not necessarily a good thing. That V6 made a whopping 5-6 more HP than Honda’s top of the line four banger, while weighing more, not being any faster, and swilling much more gas.

        Camry had them both beat anyway with the 2.5L V6 out in ’89 I think, which outpowered both Honda’s F22A6 and the Mitsu 6G72 in the Hyundai.

        • 0 avatar
          Maymar

          For sure, my point was just that, even in Honda’s apparent golden era, they embraced new technology on their own terms, and mostly bring out advancements when they’re ready (mostly, we’ll ignore the fragile automatics).

          The 1.5 in the Civic has already been really well received, and has been lauded for its excellent real world fuel economy and power. The Accord V6 was a nice enthusiast secret, but I see no reason we should fear a turbo Accord, or think its delay means Honda has lost the plot.

          • 0 avatar
            sportyaccordy

            Indeed, I agree that Toyota and Honda wisely let other manufacturers do the beta testing for them. Better to be late to the party and reliable than… well, Volkswagen.

    • 0 avatar
      stuki

      While Honda has always been quality/reliability and value conscious, the reason enthusiasts keep expecting more from them, is that for a brief moment in time, they were also genuinely, to-be-had-nowhere-else-at-any-cost exciting. Releasing cars that could last longer at 9000rpm than most others could at idle. “Econoboxes” with double wishbones, shifters that made contemporary $100K Porsches feel like shifting a dumptruck, and so forth.

      It’s likely unfair to hold any current automaker to “golden era” Honda standards, as they were working with almost unlimited resources back in the bubble days (oval pistoned engine in the NR bike, Japan right at peak prime working age population……), and the competition weren’t as uniformly tough as today. But the reputation Honda gained for engineering on an almost different level altogether, still lingers on. Almost to the point of causing them more grief than benefit.

      Heck, I’m not the only one that considers the automobile largely, for all practical purposes, perfected with the NSX and similar era Hondas and Toyotas/Lexuses (+ a few Germans, like E36 3 series.) From then on out, “development” has largely amounted to various degrees of lily-gilding, as well as of the rest of the pack getting closer to catching up.

  • avatar
    WheelMcCoy

    When Hyundai first appeared, I felt it was a Honda wanna-be, from a similar sounding name to a slanted H badge. How the tables have turned!

    A V6 Accord Sedan would definitely put the Acura TLX to shame. It’s not out of the realm of reason though, as the Honda Civic has put the Acura ILX to shame. Eh, probably won’t happen, but one can always dream.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Hyundai, tho, was formed before Honda (albeit as a construction company).

      • 0 avatar
        WheelMcCoy

        Thanks for that bit of info. Hyundai the construction company was formed in 1947. Honda Motors was formed in 1948. Missed it by that much!

        But Hyundai the automotive company was founded much later in 1967.

    • 0 avatar
      mtmmo

      “A V6 Accord Sedan would definitely put the Acura TLX to shame.” I’ve put 22,000 miles on my company car, 2015 TLX V6, and have driven many Accord V6’s from our company fleet. It’s not even close. The TLX has a much higher quality interior and is much quieter. Both are great cars but the TLX is worth the extra $4-5k.

      • 0 avatar
        WheelMcCoy

        I was thinking of the hypothetical V6 Accord Sedan manual transmission mentioned in Jack’s post. There’s no such beast this side of Honda or Acura. It exists only in our imagination so of course it will drive better!

        The TLX is a fine and refined car, and selling well, but the V6 with the 9 speed transmission isn’t the driver’s car according to reviews and Acura forums. That claim belongs to the 4 cylinder TLX.

      • 0 avatar
        slance66

        The TLX really is a great looking car too. First time I’ve been able to say that about an Acura since the debut of “the beak”. I like the looks of the Accord Sedan more than its competition as well, but the TLX, especially from the side and rear, looks fantastic.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      A V6 SH-AWD TLX manual would be one of the best underrated cars on the market, just like its styling-challenged TL predecessor. But a V6 Accord sedan manual would be great too. I wish the volume were there for Honda to offer both.

  • avatar
    omer333

    I would forgo the idea of trading in my Accord Sport for either a Focus ST or WRX and go with an Accord V6/6MT sedan in a heartbeat.

  • avatar
    kvndoom

    Hate to break it to ya but the 2017 configurator is already out. Only thing different from 2016 is that you can now buy a Sport trim with leather. Whoop.

  • avatar
    scottcom36

    While we’re dreaming a V-6 manual Accord sedans how about they put their SI experience with the Civic to use and tweak the suspension for a bit better cornering and road feel?

  • avatar
    never_follow

    The J35 is indeed a sweet sweet engine. When I go back to visit my parents on the other side of the country, I always make sure to ring out their Accord.

    The metallic zing to redline mixed with the tires scrambling for grip always puts a grin on my face. The car always seems to run a little better afterwards too, guess Italian tune ups still have a place!

    The brakes do, however, suck. Not sure if it’s because the car doesn’t get regular exercise and the rotors are full of deposits, or they’re warped, but it’s the only thing I hate about the car.

  • avatar
    Trucky McTruckface

    Oh good. If the Civic is any indicator, the new Accord is going to have all the ugliness of the Crosstour, but without the convenience of an actually hatch.

    A shame, because the current Accord is one of the more handsome entries in the segment, or at least it was until they slapped that obnoxious Acura style chrome bar across the front – a feature which I expect to carry over to the new model in even more exaggerated form.

    Honda is such a profoundly clueless company. Every time it seems like they’ve finally returned to the brilliant engineering and understatedly striking styling that made them the benchmark in the ’80s and ’90s, they insist on shooting themselves in the foot.

    Frankly, I couldn’t care less about the V6 and I’m sorry but in my experience the manual in that car just isn’t that special. I’d give up the manual in my Sport for a higher quality interior and a less pathetic infotainment system.

    None of this matters though as long as Car & Driver continues to gets bought off to keep this car on the 10 Best list every year.

  • avatar
    ToddAtlasF1

    I would buy this car. It might slow down my Land Cruiser acquisition plan, but it would be a keeper of the first order.

  • avatar
    JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

    “The Accord Coupe is an acquired taste aimed mostly at older women, permanently single librarians of both sexes, and those of us who remember the 1977 Cutlass Supreme with fondness, not aversion.

    I like the Accord coupe and have said several times that if I were to have a new “car” (not truck, van or mpv) it would be an I-4/6MT Accord LX coupe. And, none of those things you said describe me. I even test drove a new Accord coupe. I love them. Those I see driving them also don’t appear to be old single female librarians.

    • 0 avatar
      slance66

      I have never seen a female of any age bracket in an Accord coupe. Just guys. Mostly between 30 and 50. Kinda like Jack. I think it’s a fairly masculine looking car really.

      • 0 avatar

        Well I have known a few men to buy accord coupes, there are two on my street one is driven my a recently married 30 something women and the other a 50 something childless women. I know a friends wife bought one couple years before they had a kid as she said sedans were for old people. I think the market for new ones leans childless and female. Used ones however seem to be largely younger and male based on the insurance claims I used to work 5 years ago or so.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    I would like to see an Accord Type R sedan for the US, including a manual transmission option and a cool gauge package (and possibly AWD.)

    There’s one major problem with this idea, and it’s spelled Acura TLX. They would be competing directly against each other. So I doubt that it can happen.

    • 0 avatar
      chrishs2000

      …which just speaks to how bland and uninspiring the TLX is.

      The 7th gen Accord couldn’t touch the 3rd gen TL, even with an EX V6 6MT trim. Even bigger gap with the 8th gen TL and 4th gen TL SH-AWD. Then they moved the TLX downmarket, IMO where the TSX really used to be, and while it’s a decent car I see no compelling reason to buy one over an Accord. Hell, after putting 5k miles on a TLX V6 with the horrendous 9AT, I’d rather have the Accord.

      • 0 avatar
        ToddAtlasF1

        If the TLX offered a 6-speed manual with either engine, I’d be in the market for one. As an automatic only car, I’ve got no use for it. The Honda transmission in the 4 cylinder sounds interesting, but I’d want the V6s power with it. The 8-speed ZF that serves every shill’s favorite Kool Aid is a miserable POS in my experience, so I have no interest in the 9-speed that the boy-whores at Car and Driver couldn’t be paid enough to praise.

  • avatar
    nels0300

    As a former owner of a “red badge” 2006 Accord sedan, YES PLEASE. That J30A4 and that six speed…..shit.

    The Honda dealer would have my 2014.5 Camry SE V6 that I had planned on keeping 8 + years…TOMORROW.

  • avatar
    missmySE-R

    As the owner of a 4 door ’09 (one year only) Cobalt SS sedan, you’ve certainly got my vote.

  • avatar
    Flipper35

    Had they offered a V6/MT sedan two years ago when we bought our new car I would have been in the showroom to take one for a drive. I had already taken a previous gen out and it was a decent car but was looking for something new(er).

  • avatar
    jc77

    Maybe it’s because I was born and raised in Europe, but I really fail to understand all this praise for Honda products.

    Living in NYC, I don’t have a car myself but I get to rent them a lot. I rented an Accord once (in 2011), and couldn’t really put myself into liking that vehicle. I frankly was happy when the rental was over.
    It had a 5-speed automatic that was one of the most unresponsive transmissions I had ever driven (it didn’t even allow you to choose the gears), paired to an engine that felt already underpowered by itself. The suspension was so soft that I was afraid the chassis would touch the ground as soon as the 3rd passenger climbed on board. The steering was way too light and with no feeling at all. Overall, the car felt clumsy and shaky, with a lot of body roll in curves: as I was driving it past 100mph on a highway, it almost felt dangerous. It gave me the impression that it was floating over the road, rather than driving on it. On top of that, the interiors were far from impressive, with hard plastic everywhere (and that huge speedometer in the center… reminded me of the dashboard of a Fiat 500 from the 1960s).

    Before coming to NYC, I used to own a 2004 Audi A4, one of the best machines I had ever driven: quick, responsive, stiff, with a great gearshift and a suspension system that made you feel you were driving on rails. It hugged the road with no roll whatsoever, even at high speeds (limits in Europe are higher than here).

    That Honda I drove was nowhere near that. From my standpoint, I would say it was one of the worst cars I had ever driven (the worst being a Nissan Altima… it summed up all the negative qualities of that Accord, with the welcome addition of a tragic CVT, the perfect icing on the cake).

    Now, I can understand when people talk about Hondas as perfect automotive appliances; expensive washing machines that take people from point A to point B without breaking down. But saying that an Accord is an enthusiast’s car, well, I think it’s a bit overstated. Even an old Chrysler 200 I rented once (the 2013 model, yes the really bad one, with the Pentastar V6) was much quicker, handled better, and was more fun to drive.

    “Power of dreams”… Sounds more like “Power of boredom” to me.

  • avatar

    Sorry, Honda just cheezes me off. My bro has in the garage the ur CRX-Si, unmodified and un hacked. He’s a hardcore Honda guy, and there has been a procession of those 90’s Accords, for friends, nannies, and family members…yes, they run forever. His other car is a second gen TL, with 250k…also perfect. It is interesting to note that other than a Bluetooth install, the TL isn’t any worse or better than what it could be replaced with. (He’d rather spend the money on the Ducati and cycle collection for fun.)

    The Euro Honda catalog has all sorts of stuff.

    Here, we ask mother Honda for anything performance, and they point to the NSX, which really isn’t the answer to the question…and I’ve still never seen one in the wild, by which, I mean the leafy green burbs around NYC. I’ve seen more McLaren and i8 on the street than new NSX.

    Honda can make some nice stuff….but in the US market, it is any flavor of vanilla you want. We all complain because VW, etc, won’t bring in the turbo-XXX230si-Q or some such, but Honda has a full catalog of interesting cars….elsewhere.

    • 0 avatar
      Kenmore

      I infer from this that other countries contain a higher percentage of car guys to whom Honda profitably panders.

      God Bless America

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        No, other countries have much higher fuel costs, displacement and size taxes which means the average car owner has a small car with a tiny engine and a manual transmission which bleeds off less of said tiny engine’s paltry horsepower.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          Japan has high fuel taxes and a displacement tax that favors engines under 2.0 liters, yet automatics are commonplace.

          As I noted to you before, European countries encourage manual transmission usage through the licensing system: you can’t get a full driver license without testing with a stick.

          Manual transmissions are normal in Europe because people learn how to drive with them from the start. They are regarded as normal and desirable, so average people like them and often see no reason not to have them.

          In contrast, Americans think that they are scary and never learn how to use them, which perpetuates the notion that they are scary and discourages others from learning.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Until 10-20 years ago, manual transmissions had more gears, got better fuel economy and performance. Now, automatics are superior for fuel economy and performance, at least for most drivers.

          • 0 avatar
            WheelMcCoy

            @Pch101 –

            Yep, I recently returned from a vacation in Europe. I had hoped to rent a car with a manual transmission, but I used Hertz. They had nothing by automatics to cater to American tourists, I presume.

            In contrast, my hosts in Holland drove a VW Polo and a Mercedes GLA 200 with manual transmissions. To them, it was no different than breathing. As I toured Europe, I looked into parked cars with sadness and envy; 90% were manual. Most were German makes and I saw very few Hondas; a highlight was a Civic Type-R hatchback.

            @VoGo –
            While automatics have improved in terms of mpg and performance, are they safer? I haven’t read a single report of unintended acceleration involving a manual. And while manuals can roll away, it is caught in time because it is immediate. Unlike automatics, I haven’t read a recent account where a manual hurt or killed someone.

            Insurance companies charge more for 2 door vehicles, less for 4 door, and even less for station wagons. They should give a discount for cars equipped with a manual transmission.

    • 0 avatar
      WheelMcCoy

      “it is any flavor of vanilla you want”

      Vanilla, French Vanilla, Vanilla Fudge, and Cherry Vanilla. That does properly sum up the Honda line-up.

      As for NSX sightings, I may have seen one in the burbs but it was parked and I passed it too quickly for a clear ID. But yep, I’ve seen McLarens. I’ve also seen a few i8s, the memorable one being the one that pulled into a McDonald’s drive-thru.

      • 0 avatar

        @ wheelmcoy….

        On one trip, we reserved a BMW 3. I anticipated getting a 316i or some such, but it was big enough for our needs and trip. I get to the rental counter and have a conversation, not really, with the rental agent. We try, but have no mutual languages. She gives me an E class, way above my reservation, for the price of the small stripper sedan. We get a luxo E, with full electronics and satnav and parking sensors and upgraded radio …. automatic transmission.
        My German speaking wife arrives. She is told they don’t give Americans stick cars. Seeing we were upgraded and so much, she kept quiet. She may have even said I can’t drive stick its’ a good idea.

        I took my NJ Driver test in a manual car….and passed first go.

        It was great to drive the phat E classe on the Bahn !!! Stupid Americans….

        • 0 avatar
          WheelMcCoy

          Nice trade!! Although disappointed, I really can’t complain either. On one leg, I got an Audi A3 automatic with nav. On another leg, a very rare Toyota Auris Hybrid (it’s a station wagon), also with nav.

          Yes, the Europeans have better lane discipline. Anyone who passes on the right risks getting a ticket, but it was never necessary!

  • avatar
    brucebanner

    Google “2018 Honda Accord” and you’ll see something quite nice. It’s that not what they’re making?

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