By on June 22, 2016

Trump and Clinton, Image: Image: By Donald Trump August 19, 2015 (cropped).jpg: BU Rob13Hillary Clinton by Gage Skidmore 2.jpg: Gage [GFDL or CC BY-SA 4.0], via Wikimedia Commons

As this is written in late June, the 2016 presidential race has been whittled down to two presumptive nominees from the two major political parties, and two or three more candidates that should appear on ballots nationwide. There are dozens of issues facing the public, certainly, but as The Truth About Cars is obviously an automotive-focused site, we felt discussing issues not related to the auto industry is well beyond the scope of our talents or expertise.

However, there are plenty of issues that will affect our industry, so we are establishing a discussion on the candidate’s positions on those issues. We aim to present a fair, unbiased assessment that will no doubt be shredded within the first five comments, so have at it.

As we see it, there are three broad issues facing the next President that have an impact on the auto industry: labor, the environment, and international trade.

Labor and International Trade

Ultimately, labor and international trade issues are linked, as the two mainstream party candidates — Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump — have both made statements opposing the Trans-Pacific Partnership, as signed by President Obama in February.

Donald Trump, writing in USA Today in March:

One of the factors driving this economic devastation is America’s disastrous trade policies. Throughout history, at the center of any thriving country has been a thriving manufacturing sector. But under decades of failed leadership, the United States has gone from being the globe’s manufacturing powerhouse – the envy of the world – through a rapid deindustrialization that has evaporated entire communities.

The number of jobs and amount of wealth and income the United States have given way in so short a time is staggering, likely unprecedented. And the situation is about to get drastically worse if the Trans-Pacific Partnership is not stopped. One of the first casualties of the TPP will be America’s auto industry…

Hillary Clinton, speaking also in March to autoworkers in Youngstown, Ohio, as quoted in Politico:

We can not let rules of origin allow China – or anyone else, but principally China – to go around trade agreements. It’s one of the reasons why I oppose the Trans-Pacific Partnership because when I saw what was in it, it was clear to me there were too many loopholes, too many opportunities for folks to be taken advantage of.

Regarding labor, Clinton has pledged to support businesses with tax credits and other incentives to provide apprenticeships and other on-the-job training. While the powerful AFL-CIO union consortium has endorsed Clinton, and the UAW has further denounced Trump’s candidacy, there is concern that the typical union member has a long memory of the North American Free Trade Agreement, signed in 1993 by Clinton’s husband, then-President Bill Clinton.

Among third-party candidates, Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson has advocated for right-to-work laws, which keep unions from requiring employees from joining the brotherhood if they do not wish to do so. Furthermore, Johnson stated job creation comes from creating an environment where private businesses can perform free of onerous government regulation:

Government regulation should only exist to protect citizens from bad actors and the harm they might do to health, safety, and property. Regulation should not be used to manipulate behavior, manage private lives and businesses, and to place unnecessary burdens on those who make our economy work. Eliminating unnecessary regulations and applying common sense to those rules that are necessary will free up capital and allow those who want and need to create jobs to do so.

Green Party candidate Dr. Jill Stein promotes a similar platform to that of Bernie Sanders on labor, as both advocate for increasing the federal minimum wage to $15/hour. Stein continues:

Create living-wage jobs for every American who needs work, replacing unemployment offices with employment offices. Advance workers rights to form unions, achieve workplace democracy, and keep a fair share of wealth they create.

These agreements between the Sanders and Stein platforms have led Dr. Stein to propose that Sanders continue his campaign atop the Green Party ticket, as Sanders winds down his bid for the Democratic Party nomination after Clinton clinched the required number of delegates.

Environment

Climate change — often called global warming — is another major issue facing candidates, as they debate the environmental impact of a century of petroleum combustion by automobiles.

Hillary Clinton has proposed that fixing climate change isn’t merely an opportunity to create a better world to live in. Rather, she suggests that replacing oil with renewable energies such as solar can create jobs. As she wrote in Time in November:

I won’t let anyone to take us backward, deny our economy the benefits of harnessing a clean energy future, or force our children to endure the catastrophe that would result from unchecked climate change.

Donald Trump, however, has stated that he is “not a great believer in man-made climate change.” That said, he is apparently concerned enough about global warming to cite it in a request to build a sea wall to protect one of his golf courses in Ireland. In a tweet from several years ago, Trump framed climate change as a concept imagined by the Chinese to impact American manufacturing:

Whether Dr. Jill Stein or Bernie Sanders tops the Green Party’s ticket in November, one can reasonably deduce from the party’s name that alternative, renewable energy sources will be a priority. Stein wants to “end destructive energy extraction: fracking, tar sands, offshore drilling, oil trains, mountaintop removal, and uranium mines.” Sanders basically concurs, while encouraging a “fair” transition for those now working in the fossil-fuel industry, ensuring continued employment and wages.

Gary Johnson acknowledges his belief that global warming is caused by humans. That said, while he agrees that protecting natural resources from contamination is a vital role of government, choosing an energy alternative should be handled by the free market, not by government employees or elected officials who many not have the interests of the entire nation at heart.

Conclusion

We have about five months left until Election Day. Each of these five candidates have varying positions that affect not just the auto industry, but the future of this country. Please carefully consider what we have written here, but do note that the author was only a political science major for about six months, mostly before he reached voting age.

Read the candidate’s websites (listed below alphabetically), read reputable news sources, and ask questions of the candidates before pulling the lever on November 8th.

Hillary Clinton

Gary Johnson

Bernie Sanders

Jill Stein

Donald Trump

In interest of full disclosure, Chris Tonn is a libertarian, though he is not a member of the Libertarian Party. In 2012, he did support Gary Johnson’s campaign as a member of the Libertarian Party, on a limited basis.

[Image: By Donald Trump August 19, 2015 (cropped).jpg: BU Rob13Hillary Clinton by Gage Skidmore 2.jpg: Gage [GFDL or CC BY-SA 4.0], via Wikimedia Commons]

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264 Comments on “How Decision 2016 Will Affect the Auto Industry...”


  • avatar

    DONALD TRUMP 2016

    I just hope and pray that his inauguration marks THE END of both the DNC and GOP – as the anger and fallout from the people rips both parties to shreds.

    If this government was doing its job and not in the pockets of multi-national corporations, and they were doing their jobs, Trump wouldn’t have even been able to run because his rhetoric wouldn’t stick.

    He is running and he is winning because “enough” people realize he’s right when they travel and see that other countries are getting rich off America and our infrastructure crumbles while theirs stands taller.

    ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

    We are going to make America GREAT Again.

    And anyone who doesn’t like it: consider yourself on notice.

    Finally a candidate who speaks for me.

    Not just a rubber stamp for radical leftist liberal insanity and their wayward globalist agendas and sick depravities.

    Countdown to January 2017.

    • 0 avatar
      psarhjinian

      Ein reich, ein volk, ein fuehrer

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        @psar

        https://d.justpo.st/media/images/2016/01/14/everyone-i-dont-like-is-hitler-the-emotional-childs-guide-to-political-discussion-1452799024.jpg

      • 0 avatar
        tonycd

        Here’s the reality:

        1) Hillary is going to win, and the Republicans are going to retain the House at least.

        2) The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is going to pass, and it’s going to do so before Hillary takes office. It had support from well over 60 senators when it came up last year, it will be voted on by the same 100 people this time, and this time it only needs 50 votes. The outgoing President is a staunch supporter of it and has declared he’ll sign it immediately. That’s a done deal.

        3) The TPP is going to harm American workers in a broad, sweeping, devastating way that’s been totally uncovered by the mainstream media. Don’t take my word for it; if you want a glimpse at its provisions, run your own web search on “TPP tribunals,” and make sure you’re sitting down.

        4) That, in turn, will accelerate the trend away from Clinton/Obama-style Republican corporatists in either party’s clothing. Sanders and Trump represent different manifestations of this same trend. The difference is, Trump represents a demographic that’s shrinking (old whites), while Sanders represents the demographic that will own the future (everyone who’s now under 30).

        5) Therefore, the future of American democracy is a race between two competing visions of the future. On one side is the next generation, who wants to move left (not “Obama radical,” but actual social democracy as historically practiced in western Europe). On the other is American billionaires who know the trend is against them and are desperately trying to shut down popular control of institutions by any means possible: buying state and local offices, voter suppression, court decisions, media takeover, buying up and/or defunding public education, and the repression imposed by the TPP itself. It is not clear which side will win. Psar predicts below that the Hillary presidency may provoke an anti-corporatist public backlash that would ironically result in a right-wing successor. He may be right.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          tl;dr:

          1. Elections are rigged.
          2. Politicians betray the people for the 5,576th time in the last hundred and ten years.
          3. Re-feudalization continues.
          4. Idiocracy is the future.
          5. There was never a democracy, only a faux republic.

        • 0 avatar
          Testacles Megalos

          Insightful analysis, predicated on one uncertainty – that there is no financial collapse leading to social revolt and/or mass hunger or lack of safe water in the Mideast, Yurp, or NorthAMurka. Welcome to Hard Times is not far from us.

          Oh, and Yellowstone could blow….

        • 0 avatar
          "scarey"

          If Hitlery wins, the civil war begins very soon thereafter.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Maybe but prob not. First will come the jackboot of the police state trying to maintain order.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            “the jackboot of the police state”

            Nobody wears those anymore. They’re hell on resilient floors.

            Your oppressors will hustle up on some damn comfy composite soles.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Your oppressors will hustle up on some damn comfy composite soles.’

            I thought it would be blackhawks in the middle of the night!

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            “I thought it would be blackhawks in the middle of the night!”

            Well, yeah, but then they can’t just hover over your front yard patiently waiting for you to surrender & come to them. How scary would *that* be?

            “Oh, I say, pray *do* get a hurry on. It’s frightfully chill in these things, you know!”

        • 0 avatar
          Willyam

          Really though-provoking post. Reading into the TPP materials.

      • 0 avatar
        CliffG

        Woo woo! Godwin’s law only two posts in. Maybe a record?

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff Waingrow

      Great work, BT. This is obviously a parody, but of whom?

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        Obviously it was BTSR who was standing in the crowd when Trump referred to: “My African-American over there.”

        http://tinyurl.com/jhcq6qp

        Rap Video made using Trumps own words – “They Love Me”

        • 0 avatar

          There are more anti-Hillary Blacks on Trumps side than you know simply because MSNBC and CNN don’t report on them.

          The Black dude that PUNCHED OUT THE BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTERS in the Klan uniform was another one of us.

          Many Blacks are annoyed their parents got LOCKED UP IN THE 90’s by Clinton’s crime bill.

          Call me whatever you want. I’m voting TRUMP and you can’t stop me.

        • 0 avatar
          MrGreenMan

          It’s just not cool to suggest that somebody has to vote Democrat because they are black or green or whatever and so must stay within whatever box they are told to stay within. Melanin doesn’t dictate brain function.

          • 0 avatar
            dwford

            “It’s just not cool to suggest that somebody has to vote Democrat because they are black or green or whatever and so must stay within whatever box they are told to stay within. Melanin doesn’t dictate brain function.”

            And yet that is exactly the Democrat argument whenever one of “their people” votes Republican.

          • 0 avatar
            Matt Foley

            Exactly. That’s why I have so much respect for black conservatives – they face 1950s-style racism from white “progressives” calling them Uncle Tom, and much worse, at every turn. Just ask Ben Carson, or Allen West, or Ken Blackwell, or Condi Rice…or BTSR.

            Every day on this board, a Doberman lets out a WOOF, and all the little pugs start yapping and nipping at his heels. And when their yips and yaps don’t silence him, they cry “Ban him, ban him, won’t somebody please ban him!”

            There is no hypocrite on Earth quite like a white liberal social justice crusader. They just LOVE black people, until a black person dares to voice a differing opinion.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            I’m a white non-liberal. I’d be more supportive of his arguments if they made sense and contained logic. He’s just a shouting clown, and I’ve no interest in going to the circus daily.

            Speaking personally, I am not a banhammer fan. But I do like a good mute button.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @Matt Foley

            *Claps*

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      The worst part about Trump is not that his message is reaching a receptive audience, but that his audience *actually believes* he is sincere.

      He’s a grandstanding, self-promoting, manipulative sociopath, and if you support him because you think “he tells it like it is” you need your head checked.

      • 0 avatar

        I have absolutely no illusions as to what Trump is.

        He’s a filthy rich sociopath.

        I recognized him as a kindred spirit right away.

        Money gives him no pleasure – no positive reinforcement – and now he needs “power” and “title” to go down in history forever and ever as “PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP”

        Thing is, I despise Hillary

        She doesn’t deserve to be president simply because she’s a woman.

        I DO NOT support DYNASTIC POLITICS.

        I don’t want to see Hillary OR daughter in the White House ever again…EVER AGAIN.

        Thing is, this country is going to be TRAUMATIZED when they watch Obama and his family pack up and move out of the White House. All that HOPE AND CHANGE torn asunder.

        I can sleep well at night with Hillary or Trump honestly so long as that COMMUNIST TRASH Sanders campaign is OBLITERATED.

        You must understand that I’m a child of the 80’s.

        My anti-communist programming has been fully activated.

        I’ll take a nationalist sociopath over a commy or Hillary (communist-lite) ANY DAY.

      • 0 avatar
        Kenmore

        “He’s a grandstanding, self-promoting, manipulative sociopath”

        Fear & pain bring a powerful irrationality that blocks perception of even such a glaringly obvious reality. It’s Trump’s cloaking device and I’m seeing it affect well established professionals as much as clods.

        • 0 avatar

          “He’s a grandstanding, self-promoting, manipulative sociopath”

          i LOVE THAT MAN.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            He’s… 1990s Bill Clinton! *gasp*

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Trump would be more apply defined as a psychopath.

            Psychopaths are adept are manipulation and even though they have zero human emotion are rather good at mirroring it.

            A sociopath tends to be very socially inept. They cannot hide their lack of emotions nor can they conceal there lack of hate for everyone or everything.

            BUT THEN AGAIN:

            Who ever said a politically motivated rant had to be factual or accurate.

      • 0 avatar
        raph

        They were broken long ago by the GOP machine and conditioned to continually vote against thier best interest. It is like shooting fish in a barrel for Trump.

        • 0 avatar

          Welfare, Socialism and communism ARE NOT in my self-interest.

          My country deserves better.

          • 0 avatar
            kmars2009

            We will see how you feel when you are somehow disabled, and forced to be on social security…or for that matter, retire.
            I have NEVER heard a black love a KKK supporter, quite like you! Hang your head in shame for your people!
            You are one of the MOST obnoxious commenters on this site.
            Well, you know what they say…opinions are like assholes, everyone has one…and most of them STINK! Especially yours!

          • 0 avatar
            darkwing

            Until it comes to Chrysler, or government-backed loans, or something else that props you up — then you turn into CAPTAIN FREE STUFF.

            Get lost, RINO.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “ARE NOT in my self-interest”

            Sums up his entire belief system

      • 0 avatar
        56BelAire

        JimZ,

        What’s the worst part of Hillary’s message?

        Does her audience “actually believe” her?

        Could you give me a few cute adjectives to describe her?

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      “… radical leftist liberal insanity…”

      Hillary Clinton, radical leftist.

      This morning’s political hilarity, brought to you by BTSR.

      • 0 avatar

        Hillary is a moderate Republican.

        Obama is a radical leftist.

        The problem is, with activist judges on the SCOTUS and voices from the insane left getting louder and louder – legitimized by mr. Hope & Change, who knows how far in debt and uncompetitive this country will end up under Hillary?

        I’m not even sure what bathroom we are allowed to use under this insane madness.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Barack Obama…radical leftist.

          Today’s second bit of political hilarity, brought to you by BTSR.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          “Hillary is a moderate Republican.

          Obama is a radical leftist.”

          u w0t m8

        • 0 avatar
          psarhjinian

          “Obama is a radical leftist”

          Really? So I just missed when he talked about public ownership of the means of production? The abolition of private property?

          And when he extended the Bush tax cuts, that was really wealth redistribution to the proletariat, was it?

          And Obamacare, that wasn’t totally a sop to the insurance industry, was it?

          Look, I know what a radical leftist is because, frankly, I was one. The current POTUS is pretty right-of-centre on just about every policy.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            the notion that we even *have* a “left wing” in this country is silly. The (D)s may indeed be to the left of the (R)s but that’s not saying much.

        • 0 avatar

          “Hillary is a moderate Republican.

          Obama is a radical leftist.”

          Well he got one right.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            This is all so amusing. In Canada I’m more likely to be viewed as centrist. In the USA I’m a far left commie.

            So very entertaining.

            USA politics is more fun that watching WWF on hallucinogenics.

    • 0 avatar
      sco

      Oh great, now I have to add being put “on notice” by BTSR to my list of worries.

      • 0 avatar

        When I am Editor-in-Chief, We are going to make TTAC Great again.

        Keep in mind: “The Flying Vagina” brought me here.

        #1 NEW CAR REVIEWS every single Monday

        #2 A “Owner Review” every monday

        #3 A Long-term owner review every Monday

        #4 A Youtube presence that grows like a tumor.

        #5 A Mobile App that notifies everyone when there’s a new story – and replies to their comments.

        #6 DRAG RACES between any two cars we can get every single Friday. (No track drives except for Sunday cause I really don’t care about Tracks).

        #7 fewer Ads that take over the corners of the page.

        We are going to make TTAC GREAT AGAIN.

        By the time I’m done, TTAC will be so tired of money coming in they’ll be like O NO – NO MORE MONEY – PLEASE – there’s no place to store all this money.

        • 0 avatar
          Testacles Megalos

          here’s the car angle: I’ll vote for the candidate who can put any car off the showroom floor around Mid-Ohio in under 2 minutes. If by some freak chance there is more than one so capable, the one who can not lift between Carousel and Keyhole entrance gets my vote. Being able to keep attention on the road ahead, navigate the present with peripheral vision, be careful with the interplay of factors making things go in the desired direction, not overcorrect when life begins to slide off the asphalt, all while having a well-calibrated butt – these should be the hallmarks of good leaders.

          • 0 avatar
            George B

            Sad that the presumptive Democrat and Republican nominees don’t drive. If I remember correctly Hillary last drove a car 20 year ago.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            ‘Sad that the presumptive Democrat and Republican nominees don’t drive. If I remember correctly Hillary last drove a car 20 year ago.’

            They won’t let her drive that armoured Suburban?

    • 0 avatar
      Ion

      The sad reality is that you live in New York, thus your vote isn’t likely to matter. The electoral college votes in the president and since NY will blindly vote dem all of our states electoral votes will go to electing Hillary. Sanders had a better chance of beating Hillary than trump and they rigged the election against him in NY.

      • 0 avatar

        All jokes aside:

        “The sad reality is that you live in New York, thus your vote isn’t likely to matter.”

        When I think to myself how Hillary, basically a carpetbagger, came all the way from Arkansas and won in MY SENATE simply because of our “love” for HER HUSBAND (not her – mind you)…and how mindless the typical libtard voter is around me…

        …yes I’ve considered your comment. In fact I use it in arguments against Hillary supporters, reminding them that while a handful of deeply indebted welfare states may very well be in the bag for her, I’m counting on the other states to turn on her.

        And I’m also counting on the apathy towards her due to the establishments rigging towards Sanders to help spell her doom.

        BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE: I will accept the “WILL OF THE PEOPLE” just so long as Sanders name never is an option.

        This country will NEVER BE a Venezuela.

        My vote for Trump is a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in the DNC and Hillary.

        Even if my vote is drowned out by this welfare state and my sanctuary city, THE WORLD WILL KNOW…the FUTURE WILL RECALL that here and now I STOOD FOR TRUMP.

        A Billion years from now that will still be echoed by the radio waves from Youtube passed from satellite into the depths of space.

        • 0 avatar
          Ion

          No no she’s one of “us” don’t you remember the big deal about her buying a house in chappequa conviently right before making a run as senator. I’d love to see a statistic on how often said has has been occupied

          • 0 avatar
            Rick T.

            Depends on the meaning of ‘occupied.” The Secret Service was there all the time providing security for her email server to prevent security breaches.

        • 0 avatar
          HotPotato

          There is no such thing as a heavily indebted state. States might make decisions that are unwise long-term, but they must balance their budgets every single year.

          Your conception of “welfare” states is inaccurate. Blue coastal states contribute more to the federal government than they get back. Red southern states take more than they give. (But guess which set whines about freeloaders?)

          BTW, I just got back from your city. It’s dirty, the weather sucks, and the motorists are an excellent argument for abolishing the automobile or at least the horn, but NYC is pretty awesome otherwise.

          Also, kudos on your plan to make TTAC great again. :-)

      • 0 avatar
        George B

        Big Truck, individual votes in New York are very unlikely to change the electoral college result, but a small percentage of otherwise meaningless votes for a 3rd party candidate can have a big effect on their cost of getting on the ballot next election cycle. Voters on the losing side of the landslide for their state get to make a free protest vote.

        • 0 avatar
          Rick T.

          There was an interesting article last week maybe about strategically voting third party in certain states where potentially the margin is within the percentage of third party votes in order to deny Hillary or Trump the 270 electoral votes.

  • avatar

    I’m not voting for any more of what we’ve had.

    A Hillary Presidency is a likely extension of the last 8 years. As bad as it’s been, it will be a lot worse with an extension of those policies.

    A Trump Presidency would surely be different.

    A vote for anyone else is a wasted vote.

    We need to put people back to work in this country. We can’t afford to lose any more manufacturing jobs.

    • 0 avatar
      psarhjinian

      “We need to put people back to work in this country. We can’t afford to lose any more manufacturing jobs.”

      So, you’d be in favour of trans-national syndicalism, then?

    • 0 avatar

      I wish you and I could march into the nearest booth and pull that lever for Trump so hard that we rip the arm off the switch.

      A vote for DONALD J TRUMP is a VOTE FOR AMERICA

      Not liberal leftism and their sick agendas and depravities.

      I’d give you a PLUS 21,000,000,000,000 if I could.

      • 0 avatar

        Can we drive your HELLCAT to the polls? I really don’t need a bribe to vote for Trump but I wouldn’t be against you working to secure my vote.

      • 0 avatar
        Piston Slap Yo Mama

        BTSR: I wish I could be there to point and laugh when your orange sociopathic blowhard loses in a landslide.
        Ditto when the TTAC comment system changes, making the first comment an irrelevant distinction.

        • 0 avatar

          KEEP DREAMING.

          Trump is going to tear Hillary apart like warm bread.

          When he’s done it’ll be a crime just to have known her.

          • 0 avatar
            VW16v

            Following someone over the cliff when you would probably be spit on at one of Grand Führer gatheringa is so messed up.

          • 0 avatar
            kmars2009

            Hey Mr. Knowitall! Trump is totally losing in the polls…or don’t you watch anything besides FOX?
            Hillary will have to tell The Donald…”you’re fired”…LOL

          • 0 avatar
            Rick T.

            Paying attention to national polls is for amateurs. Some of the battleground state polls show a very different picture. It’s been a couple of weeks of Hillary proxies and the media throwing everything at him and the polls haven’t really moved at all.

    • 0 avatar
      mtmmo

      I’m a Democrat but I’ll be pinching my nose casting my vote for Trump. I care about the economy, security, and ridding our system of career politicians. Hillary fails on the first two and is the poster child for the third.

      • 0 avatar

        I’m not sure how she fails on security I’m not fan but she’s pretty tough and has support of some of pretty tough GOP hawks on her Foreign policy. She tends to be much more aggressive then the current president.

    • 0 avatar
      dwford

      I’m still trying to rationalize Clinton’s campaign argument that things are bad and she can fix them, yet advocating for more of everything Obama has done.

  • avatar
    Kenmore

    I like Trump’s hair better than Hillary’s. No dark roots.

  • avatar
    ajla

    For a variety of reasons, it’s becoming increasingly unlikely I’ll vote for Trump.

    However, the Democrat attitude I’m seeing more and more is “the party is over, jobs are never coming back because we can’t compete. Perpetually working at Arby’s is probably your biggest hope and the only way you’ll survive is through government-mandated pay increases and subsidized programs.”

    So I guess I’d like to see less defeatism from the DNC and less insanity from the GOP.

    • 0 avatar
      psarhjinian

      Good luck.

      The Democrats are going to ride the neoliberalism train until it goes off the rails. They have the same generational issue that the GOP has, except that where the GOP has basically been germinating the seeds of fascism, the Democrats have an a quarter-century of tone-deaf Third-Way benefactors they have to deal with.

      Their reckoning will be very ugly: Sanders’ campaign was a preview, and he was quite a reasonable alternative compared to whomever the Democratic version of Trump will be, assuming that a Clinton presidency doesn’t result in the subsequent election of a Republican even worse than Trump is.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        how many more years until the Boomers are finally gone?

      • 0 avatar
        olddavid

        PSAR- You only need to analyze the fiasco of 1968 to preview the future. McCarthy – Lyndon – Hubert – RFK. We are still paying for that train wreck. The competing ideologies left a carcass DNC, without credibility to its member core, and gave rise to the republican-lite Clintons. And we’re about to elect another one? The sad fact seems to be that wanting to be the President should be prima facie evidence against candidacy.

    • 0 avatar
      dwford

      So true. The Democrats basically tell people that they can never do better unless the government gives them something, everything is hopeless without some government handout. Republicans, for all their faults, at least have a message of self reliance and self made opportunity.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      The GOP has not realized they need to put a -moderate- candidate forth in order to secure swing votes and the majority.

      Instead they let the crazy float to the top and put on a show, making the moderate-ish Democrat look all the better.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        Ain’t nothing make Hillary look good.

        As an aside, it’s amazing to me that she has been giving public speeches for over 25 years and still doesn’t understand how amplified sound works.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          Orange Cheeto man do. All you’ve got to do is not be a giant racist @sshole and you win.

          When the evils are equal, the less obvious evil wins. Erry time.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            He doesn’t though. I don’t like Donald Trump and I still won’t vote for Hillary. Nothing he does makes her any more palatable of a candidate to me. I just won’t vote.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            I feel the same way, and I won’t be voting either. But the average younger person and/or liberal does not feel that way. Each time he spouts about Mexicans, her pedestal grows.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Undecided voters are $hit. Why would Trump give a crap about young liberal voters? They are never going to vote for him anyway. They wouldn’t have voted for a moderate GOP candidate either. Heck, 50% of Bernie’s supporters aren’t going to vote for HillDawg. What he has to do is win battleground states by getting people that vote republican to the polls. Whoever mobilizes the party base in OH, FL, VA, PA, etc better is going to win. It’s all about who votes.

      • 0 avatar
        56BelAire

        Corey, “the GOP has not realized they need to put a -moderate- candidate forth”.

        What the hell were McCain and Romney? How did that work out? They were weak moderates, certainly not conservative.

      • 0 avatar

        That’s a core GOP problem moderates can’t win the primary system unless they pull a Romney and pretend to be a crazy right winger then try to bring it back to center later.

  • avatar
    MPAVictoria

    Can I once again call for an end to threads on politics? They produce only heat and anger. I come here to read about cars. If I want politics I will go to Redstate or Crooked Timber or Lawyer, Guns and Money.

    • 0 avatar
      Kenmore

      Thanks for the links!

    • 0 avatar

      You can call for it, but to ignore the effect politics has on the automotive industry would be putting our collective heads in the sand. Just because you may not like the topic doesn’t make it any less relevant.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I’m looking at a parts car for my Volvo.

      • 0 avatar
        Piston Slap Yo Mama

        I bought a ’85 RX7 GSL-SE parts car some years ago. Came with a full Racing Beat exhaust including headers, Tokico shocks, H&R lowering springs and glass moon roof. Nice interior too. Once I was done with it I made all of my money back selling a few additional parts – then the salvage yard paid me to take it away. The flip side is I feel bad about sending an otherwise savable car to its grave just because of rotary side seals…

        • 0 avatar
          Troggie42

          I think I just heard my 84 GSL crying a bit at home without an engine in its bay… Was gonna rebuild the 12a, but turns out when you buy a car for 800 euro from an import/export fella in germany… Yeah not well cared for. Saving up for a Turbo2 swap now. Seems to be deceptively easy to do, I’m fully prepared for all hell to break loose. :D

          • 0 avatar
            Piston Slap Yo Mama

            Mine started as a GSL. I traded the parts car 13b headers for 12a, removed the rats nest of emissions hoses, replaced the air pump with a plate and rejetted the carb. The SE donated it’s larger vented rotors and LSD. Once I was done I had a screamer & the redline warning buzzer was my new friend. Never driven a turbo rotary though and always had a love for the 1st gen’s perfect shape. Too bad about the recirculating-ball steering, what a letdown that was. Good luck, though turbos + rotaries = grenade if anything goes wrong.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      Who clicks on every article? I would’ve skipped this one if it wasn’t for your barking.

    • 0 avatar
      Testacles Megalos

      the current political mess and driving automobiles are strongly linked. FDR was the original ThirdWayer/Federal interventionist in private liberties, and he had to be driven around (ok, so he had a special car built with hand controls, but I’ll bet he couldn’t have handled a Hellcat). No understanding of the car ethic in a Politian be a verrry bad thing. Notice they all get driven around now.
      I wonder if Trump drives hisself?

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      MPAVictoria, you obviously do not appreciate how much America’s politics have wrecked the US auto market.

      Gone are most of the cars worth having, replaced instead with all sorts of mandated schit and mouth-breathing nervous squirrel engines.

      This upcoming election in America will have an enormous impact on how and what we get to drive for the rest of our lives.

  • avatar
    threeer

    Government, industry and the consumer. We all have a part to play in how well (or not) we decide to recover from the blood-letting that has been outsourcing over these last 20 or so years. While government can (and should) place rules and regulations that foster growth in American manufacturing and industry can (and should) source more production here it is ultimately up to the consumer (you and I) to decide with our voice (money spent) what is important to us. If we really, truly desire to have any hint of a manufacturing turn around in our country, the largest piece of the puzzle is what we vote on every time we enter a store and plunk down our money. I trust neither one of the two primary candidates to impact the massive negative trade imbalance in any meaningful way. It makes for great political talk during campaign season, but results in little to no real action once the sturm und drang dies down after elections are over.

    We’re bleeding out as a country when it comes to sending wealth beyond our borders, and I believe that to be a more pressing danger to our country than any perceived potential attack by the likes of Russia, North Korea of any of the terrorist groups out there professing hate towards America. Parking over $300 billion into China’s account year after year does more harm to our nation’s prosperity, security and independence than any military threat we currently face. And neither Trump or Clinton have the drive or ability to seriously change that. We, as consumers, do…but we likely won’t, as we are price/cost-driven to the point of near-ruin.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      yep. it’s not “defeatist” to admit that the lost manufacturing is unlikely to return, because we as a society don’t give a s**t. Don’t get me wrong, we’ll always loudly complain about it, but when it comes time to actually walk the walk, we’ll continue to amble down the aisles of Wal-Mart, grumble at the “Made in China” on the box, and throw it into the cart anyway.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        I’d say the scenario you just described is practically the definition of defeatist.

      • 0 avatar
        Testacles Megalos

        “we don’t give a s**t”….right arm with that.

        Look at pictures of people 50 years ago and people now.
        Then: skinny smokers with no tattoos or piercings, men wore hats (fedoras oftentimes), women wore gloves, bathrooms were for Menses and Womenses.
        Now: Fat blobs with tattoos/piercings wearing shorts and sweats, smoking is a crime, and bathrooms should really be labeled “urinals” and “no urinals.”

        The explanation is exactly what you say.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          I’m struggling to figure out how smoking and wearing hats and gloves somehow made things “better.” And believe me, I have photos of my grandparents (and peers) from 50+ years ago, and the only hats I see were a couple instances of the sailor’s cap from their Navy pics.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Devolution.

            Gives a s*** ———————–> Doesn’t have a clue or gives a s***

            Pre WWII -> WWII -> Silent -> Boomer -> X -> Y -> ?

          • 0 avatar
            Testacles Megalos

            mostly it’s the current fat blob pollution that shows the lack of self-respect.

            And, at least in the Midwest, shopping trips to the Big City meant Dad wore a hat, Mom wore gloves, and the kids got dressed up. Like everybody else we saw.

            I imagine the coasts were probably 10-20 years ahead on losing those quaint customs.

            Smoking was a sideshow. I imagine it’s part of how human nature maintained non-fat-blob status. Not sure which is worse for the society as whole, however – smoking or wholesale obesity.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Cancer kills you quick.
            Obesity lets you linger and continue eating and improving BK share values. Leads to other heart/diabetic/etc diseases which make you sick but don’t kill you.

            Obesity is absolutely worse for the insurance and (especially group) healthcare costs in this country.

            Smoking is disgusting because you can point at it so easily, and it’s an on/off trigger. Obesity has a wide range, and is accepted as the norm because most Americans are big lards with no self-control.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “And, at least in the Midwest, shopping trips to the Big City meant Dad wore a hat, Mom wore gloves, and the kids got dressed up. Like everybody else we saw.”

            So what?

            I’m serious, so what? Why should I care that people (supposedly) wore suit, tie, and hat to go shopping back then?

            just because that might have been “the way things were” 50 years ago doesn’t make them the “Right Way.”

            Leave it to Beaver is not an accurate depiction of 1950s America.

            Oh, and it’s possible to lose weight (I’ve done it.) You can’t undo the damage from smoking.

          • 0 avatar
            Testacles Megalos

            Just saying, too bad you can’t figure this out.

            It took effort born of self-respect to get dolled up. Nobody does that anymore. No wonder we get clowns like the current batch wanting to “lead our country.”

            the Beav’ was what the left coast imagined the Midwest might be like. Not even close. No argument there.

            Obesity vs. smoking – Corey nailed it. At least smoking gets the costs over and done with.

            Good for you that you lost weight. Glad to know there are some postBoomers with self-discipline.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            Sneering condescension and a backhanded “compliment.” Lovely.

            “It took effort born of self-respect to get dolled up.”

            no, more like “putting on appearances.”

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Hyacinth Bucket knows about this.

          • 0 avatar
            Testacles Megalos

            I had to look up that reference. I lost track of television after that color stuff got popular.

            (isn’t “civilization” really another name for “putting on appearances so we can all get along”? Human nature is a pretty brutal thing after all….)

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Obesity vs. smoking – Corey nailed it. At least smoking gets the costs over and done with.”

            Not really.

            Advances in cancer treatment means more patients are shifting into the “cured” category and more into the “chronic illness” category.

            I have rarely ever seen heart attack patients who don’t smoke.

            Most Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary disease is smoking related.

            The only thing that tends to get things “over and done with” is gun violence.

            Testacles Megalos – Acting civil is what you describe and often involves putting on airs.

            Civilization is by definition, “the condition that exists when people have developed effective ways of organizing a society and care about art, science, etc.”

            This thread isn’t exactly civil but is an example of civilization at work.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      “If we really, truly desire to have any hint of a manufacturing turn around in our country, the largest piece of the puzzle is what we vote on every time we enter a store and plunk down our money.”

      You’re right, but here’s the problem: when it comes to cheap consumer goods, we’ll be “plunking down” more to buy American.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Quality is key. If a US product lasts three times as long, but only costs twice as much, the cost is justified. If the US product is made of the same cheap plastic and sold at a 800% markup (from the cost of materials) then no it won’t work. IMO, wood > injection molded plastic. metal > injection molded plastic. This is what I want my products to be made from depending on application.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Absolutely, 28, but when it comes to cheap, disposable stuff, no one cares.

          The key is making durable goods here for public and commercial consumption. And if we want to succeed, it has to be stuff that basically can’t be made anywhere else. We have to leverage our technical expertise and basically invent new industries.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I completely agree. On the cheaper consumer goods, I have a tale of two cities to share.

            Years back my younger brother worked for Sears and Sears had a penchant for marking down most merchandise literally to 90% off until it sold (low margin items such as TVs and appliances were exempted). So with some seniority, my brother and his friends would hide items they wanted in the back of the store until they were 90% off (which I’m sure was against Sears policy but I digress).

            One year, I believe 2007, plastic RCA branded headphones on the chopping block and my brother grabbed I think three of them for his hiding spot. They were priced at $40 I think he paid $3 or $4 apiece by the time the super clearance sale came around. So in 2008 when I started my new job at Mckesson, he gave me a pair for listening to Youtube at work on my old M90. I dropped them many times and they eventually broke, but with Gorilla glue they soldiered on to around 2012 here at the current gig when they finally couldn’t be glued anymore. I then thought, I want something more durable than cheap plastic. Since um, its forbidden to make quality consumer products after the 80s, I thought of Ozzy and it was 70s I’m comin’ home. Thus I bought these from ebay… I’m wearing headphones with an adapter which look identical to this:

            https://img0.etsystatic.com/036/1/7355598/il_570xN.518439694_hgmr.jpg

            I paid $25 for them and its about four years in with many drops from the desk. I’m pretty sure these will outlive me. While on the subject, Beats by Dr Dre deconstructed:

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-einstein/we-took-apart-some-beats-headphones_b_7639618.html

            “I estimate that the COGS without labor or shipping is $16.89 — yet Beats is able to successfully retail these headphones for $199+. This is the power of brand. Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine have leveraged their personal backgrounds and a sleek design to launch a remarkable brand that’s become fundamental to music pop culture.

            *Plastic part price takes the following assumptions into account:”

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Ah, Dr. Dre…the markup Force is strong with that padawan.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            The article concludes it is because the power of brand. This might partially be true, but also because customers keep handing over money for it instead of finding better options.

        • 0 avatar
          bikegoesbaa

          The flip side is that low-cost regions have really improved their manufacturing quality and equipment/knowledge base over the last decade.

          Sure, there’s a lot of junk coming out of China. There’s also a lot of really good stuff.

          It’s no longer accurate to just expect that a product will be higher quality or last longer simply because it is made in the US.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Look at the huffpo link I posted above. Made in USA vs PRC aside, I as a consumer don’t want to buy junk because it costs more in the long run. Yet that’s what the PRC is giving me, $16 worth of plastic for $199.

      • 0 avatar
        threeer

        And that is the long and short answer to the problem. Americans buy on price. Period. If it costs more to buy American-made, we (I say that as a generalization. I know there are folks who are willing to pay a bit more to keep their fellow Americans employed) won’t do it. As JimZ said, we’ll complain, grouse during elections, and then go back to throwing billions in national wealth away every time we walk down the aisles in Wal-Mart.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I agree with you, but I seem to recall the “Made in USA” products I saw as a child being similar to those not (at least those at a lower price point). If a truly better product was offered by a US mfg, all it would take is a demonstration of simple math to show it is the better purchase over a longer period. I realize personal economics courses were probably dropped sometime after I graduated high school in 1999, but this is the sort of thing we were taught at the time.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Yeah, but people don’t analyze their purchases that much. Honestly, I don’t.

            And in an era with stagnant incomes, the downward pressure on prices will do nothing but continue.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Look at the post I added above if you have’t seen it Freed.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            You’re expecting rationality from the buying public, 28.

            Hey, I admire it…but…

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            “Well dang this TV thurr is $35 dollars more ‘spensive than this hurr Vizeeo one, an it’s the same size. You kin’ fill up the F150 half tank on that, get the Vizeeo!”

            *Leaves Wal-Mart*

    • 0 avatar
      bikegoesbaa

      You realize that the manufacturing output of America has increased dramatically over the last 20/30/40/50 years, right?

      http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/mfg1.jpg

      We’re just doing it with far fewer people due to advances in production efficiency.

      • 0 avatar
        Mr. Orange

        What are you doing attempting to bring actual facts to this discussion? It so much easier for Americans to blame their economic “decline” on China, Mexico and the world vs oh we get better at building thing more efficiently and thereby need fewer workers doing what we use to build.

    • 0 avatar
      olddavid

      Agreed. It took me many years to understand, unfortunately. We have consciously attempted to buy American for about four years now. Not an easy thing to do, but every little bit helps. We never did shop at WalMart, because of their labor practices mostly, but Target isn’t much better. My biggest change? New car parts and tools. And paying $80 for locally made jeans. You folks that are tired of us selfish Boomers have little time to consider us as we are no longer the largest demographic, and dropping like flies. Of my old “gang” of 17 in high school, 12 are gone.

      • 0 avatar
        Zackman

        I am a boomer, and as a generation, they are killing themselves at least as fast as the WWll generation with alcohol, smoking, and especially drugs. Proudly, I have never tried drugs, never smoked – I saw what it did to dad, and I drink moderately.

        Boomers are dropping off in their 60s as opposed to our parents in their 70s.

        Call us selfish? Umm… I don’t know how true that is, but nothing was given me, I had to strive to achieve what I have accomplished.

    • 0 avatar
      tonycd

      Threeer, I compliment you on a thoughtful post.

      That said, there is another way. For the entire history of this nation until the 1980s, we had tariffs. They worked. Then we lifted them. Now we’re hemorrhaging industrial jobs, and that’s not a coincidence. It’s a direct consequence of this nation’s oligarchs getting the cheap labor they schemed for.

      Now, I don’t want to be a hypocrite about this. I think the quality of American cars has been unforgivably, irresponsibly deplorable for decades, and I drive a foreign-built car. I’ll also pre-emptively add that yes, tariffs raise prices on goods sold in our country. But they also support an employed, properly paid middle class who can afford them, which is what we’re losing.

      Overall, I agree we’re reaching the point where my love of low-priced foreign iron may have to take a back seat (no pun intended) to the preservation of our country. I’d just say to you it’s not hopeless, and history has proven there is a systemic and really effective way to fix this problem. We simply need to retake the political levers from the billionaire class and reinstate it.

      • 0 avatar
        threeer

        Tony,

        Tariffs will never happen (even if Trump is elected) because you allude to exactly the issue with the “government” part of my three-legged stool. The “levers” are controlled by people with much, much more money than you and I will ever see, and the “industry” leg weighs heavily on influencing potential policy. Go to Germany or Japan (as has been noted) and take a look at what vehicles are predominately being driven. They are typically domestically-produced. Heck, even our own U.S. Government (of which I work for) won’t support American production by buying American-made goods, so why should the typical consumer? If either candidate really attempted to place tariffs on goods (let’s stick with automotive items, since this is an automotive website), manufacturers of not only the end-item vehicle, but also the component manufacturers (and their home countries) would howl so loudly it would shake our politicians out of their collective foreign-made boots and would thus never happen. It’s hard to compete fairly when countries place tariffs on our goods, force us to join lopsided JVs with homegrown companies and offer zero in the way of intellectual property protection (or flat out steal it if you don’t voluntarily give it up). That’s the part the “government” leg could play to attempt to somewhat level the playing field…but won’t.

        No, neither Clinton or Trump will affect the auto industry one iota. Buick will continue to transition more and more into a foreign-made outlet for Chinese SUVs, Ford will continue to move small car production to Mexico, Chrysler will bring small CUVs from Italy under the fabled Jeep name…and Honda/Toyota will continue to offer some of the most “American-made/contented” vehicles on the road.

        • 0 avatar
          Testacles Megalos

          The idea of multinational corporations pulling the levers yields cars which cannot really be ascribed to a country (when is a Fiat not Italian? – when it’s an FCA multinational creation built in Mexico…) really makes one wonder if the idea of political nations is becoming obsolete.

          Bartholomew: Corporate society takes care of everything. And all it asks of anyone, all it’s ever asked of anyone ever, is not to interfere with management decisions.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    What a depraved joke our so-called “democracy” has become, between a completely bought-and-paid for CONgress, regulatory agencies and even judicial system absolutely captured by corporations, and two mouthpieces of the two allegedly different mail political parties dividing voters along socially-inflammatory wedge issues, that the courts will more often than not decide, anyways.

  • avatar
    tjh8402

    too bad I can’t post a picture. Insert Michael Jackson eating popcorn meme here. For the record, I’m voted for Johnson in 2012 and I’ll vote for him again. Had the Republicans nominated someone with a hint of sense I might have voted for them to try to stop Hilary, but instead, they went for the worst most vile major party nominee in recent history.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      “I’m voted for Johnson in 2012 and I’ll vote for him again.”

      Gary thanks you, and I thank you. I voted for Gary in 2012 and will do so again in 2016.

      I would have voted for Hillary in 2008, but America’s majority wanted to see that first negro in the White House. They got their wish and we all know how that turned out.

      I won’t vote for Hillary this year because now she has waaaaaaay too much baggage. I’m looking forward to what Wikileaks is going to publish from her server. Ought to be downright juicy.

      Call mine a protest vote against Trump and against Hillary.

      • 0 avatar
        Dynasty

        “I’m looking forward to what Wikileaks is going to publish from her server. Ought to be downright juicy.”

        Should be. But my guess is nothing will be reported. Or the media is so far into her pocket, very little will get picked up on. Or even if it is picked up on, it will be a footnote*.

        *Trump will have said something non PC, and that will get 90% of the media play.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          In the past Wikileaks has been pretty much in the news with their releases and that was pretty well covered because the White House correspondents of all networks asked the questions during the daily newser.

          Julian Assange made the announcement today about the upcoming releases, and there was also some coverage today of Gucifer v2’s release of Hillary server stuff that was hacked.

          The original Gucifer is currently in FBI custody so who is Gucifer v2?

          No doubt Trump will make use of these various releases to insert into the 90% media play he will get for saying something non-PC.

          In spite of all this, there is no doubt in my military mind that Hillary will be elected POTUS in Nov, by a landslide of the voters who actually turn out to vote.

          ‘crats love freebies! Obama, Hillary, libs are all about freebies. Electing Hillary will mean more of America’s wealth will be spread around.

          And there are more ‘crats that will turn out to vote for Hillary than there will be Republicans and Independents who will turn out to vote for Trump.

  • avatar
    TMA1

    This could have focused more on the candidates views regarding the auto companies. Trump has targeted Ford specifically for moving so much production to Mexico. Both are anti-China, but have either of them brought up the Buick Envasion?

  • avatar
    bball40dtw

    Am I allowed to complain about the President if I don’t vote? I don’t want to vote for either candidate.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Don’t worry, Diebold will take care of it for you.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      sure, why not? being stuck with the choice between two unappealing options is absolutely complaint-worthy.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        I can’t vote for either Trump or Clinton and a third party vote is throwing my vote away. Terrible turn of events.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          Both parties are satisfied with having a crap candidate, as long as one crap candidate appears less crap than the other. Lately, the Democrats have been doing this better.

          So we’ll keep having Democratic presidents until such time as the GOP is replaced by another party, or figures out how to make a candidate.

          Perhaps the GOP should put forth a woman or minority. Experimentation turns on the youths.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I think we need somewhat of a killer virus or release of NBC weapons in key parts of the world. Pretty sad when those satantic guidestones are starting to make some sense.

          • 0 avatar
            brenschluss

            “those satantic guidestones”

            Oh, that’s adorable.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Infinite growth in a world of finite resources, with a planet of seven billion and counting?

            We’re not heading into space and I don’t see undersea exploration advancing to the point of underwater cities anytime soon.

            Eventually someones gonna start shooting.

          • 0 avatar
            brenschluss

            Hey, I agree that they make sense (albeit more so if you read them assuming they’re intended for *after* the bombs kill everyone and not a justification for such,) I just love it when people call them “Satanic,” since a message of “don’t be parasites” infringes on our inherent right to potentially exist as a net-negative waste of carbon and usable space.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            Plus, we poop too much.

            Olympic water sports in Rio, anyone?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Both parties are satisfied with having a crap candidate, as long as one crap candidate appears less crap than the other. Lately, the Democrats have been doing this better.”

            This…and I’m a lifelong liberal Democrat.

            Plus, Republicans have been shooting themselves in the foot on the national and state levels for a LONG time. I mean, seriously…during the whole 2012, the party put up one guy with a shot of being elected, and a whole passel of whack jobs who did nothing but engage in a circular firing squad, and THEN, only after looking like a bunch of royal idiots, chose the one guy Obama was actually scared of. If they’d chosen Romney all along, Obama would have lost – he was VERY vulnerable, and he knew it.

            You’d think they’d have learned by now, but the whole Trump circus tells me they haven’t.

            Same story on the state level – no better example exists than Todd Akin, who ran for senate in Missouri against Claire McCaskill, who was *eminently* beatable. So what does Akin do? He gets on the radio and says that womens’ vaginas have special powers that kill rapists’ sperms. I am NOT making this up. And then he doubled down on it.

            Then there’s the case of Dan Maes, who ran for governor of Colorado in 2010 as a Tea Party favorite. He soon celebrated his nomination by establishing his whack-job bonafides, by calling for the fourteenth amendment to be revoked, and so on. But the coup de grace was when he called out a program Denver has where you can rent a bike and ride around downtown. Maes apparently thought this was nothing less than proof positive that the Black UN Helicopter age was inevitable.

            And now they have Trump, who has probably whack-jobbed his way out of being elected.

            It ain’t so much Democratic strength as it is Republican weirdness. Which is a shame, because once you strip away all the nuttery, stuff like lower taxes and less regulation have a bearing on the political conversation, if for no other reason than to talk about it. But it gets lost in all the guns/gays/”he’s a socialist” blather.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Infinite growth in a world of finite resources, with a planet of seven billion and counting?”

            The answer is to create new types of resources.

            Imagine, for example, if electricity could be generated by the most plentiful element in the universe, in outrageous quantities, and with practically no pollution. Take a look at how petroleum changed the world, and now imagine how an energy technology many orders of magnitude better changes the world.

            That’s fusion power, and it’s not science fiction.

            Maybe I’m too much a kid of the ’60s, but I have a pretty unshakable faith in the ability of human beings to use technology to adapt and grow.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            The adapt and growth in new energy will happen – but it’s going to be after it gets much MUCH worse.

            Those oil companies will have to be running out of money first. And that’s after they and the commodity market have had their way with the consumer.

            Then, growth of a new energy source will occur. There will be blood.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “And now they have Trump, who has probably whack-jobbed his way out of being elected.”

            He’s *not* a whack-job, which is the worrying part.

          • 0 avatar
            56BelAire

            Corey,
            “perhaps the GOP should put forth a woman or minority”.

            Ever hear of Herman Cain, Ben Carson. Sarah Palin or Carly Fiorina?

            I know, I know…..they are all either stupid, “not Black enough” or bought and paid for. Plus the liberal media always savages any Republican who happens to be Black or a woman.

            I would vote for any of the four.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @brenschluss

            Ostensibly there is something fishy going on with them, between the secrecy and the pseudonym, but I agree the basic idea of don’t be parasites isn’t a bad one. What and when these guidestones were intended for is a topic of debate, but its sad for me when I start to agree with some of them. Ideally I want to believe: can’t we all just get along, but realistically I don’t believe we can as a planet.

            @Kenmore

            There’s money in that poop, think Mr Fusion!

            @Freed

            Seriously that’s an excellent response. New types of resources (or artificial creation of resources) might be possible, I just wonder if it can be done on a large enough scale for all. I’m thinking, fresh water, real food, and everyone’s favorite: petroleum. Fusion would be fantastic, assuming it would actually be possible and could be done on scale.

            @Corey

            Realistically I’m more in your camp, more than likely there will be blood its just a matter of how much.

            @56BelAire

            Fiorina, really? I’d jail that b**** for what she did to HP. Poster child on how not to do business succession.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Donald Trump: 58%

            Hillary Clinton: 54%

            The sad part is those numbers aren’t approval ratings but disproval ratings.

            Hillary’s pile of sh!t appears to stink less than Donald’s.

  • avatar
    Frylock350

    This election has me feeling very conflicted. I don’t really want to vote, as neither candidate deserves it, but I feel it is my civic duty to do so. Maybe I can vote to make it a three party race next year. If the green party (who I completely disagree with) and/or libertarian party gets 5% of the vote; they’re given public funding in the next election cycle; effectively allowing a 3 party election.

    I really really dislike Clinton and BTSR listed most of the reasons why. She the most disingenuous candidate I can remember.

    I also really dislike Trump, but I like his views on trade and returning the USA to a more isolationist role in international affairs. I don’t like his obvious disdain for entire groups of people.

    Trump’s success (and Sanders’ near success) are to me signs of life in our democracy. Trump is not a GOP candidate. He’s an outsider who has some very leftist policies. Sanders is not a DNC candidate either; he’s an outsider. In a nation that only elects Christians we almost put a Jewish man on the ballot. Trump and Sanders represent the dissatisfaction with the GOP AND DNC in the US.

    So as a auto enthusiast; which candidate is likely to put less restrictions on what the auto industry can build? Who is likely to implement policies that will raise the price of fuel? Also who is more likely to support biofuels?

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Actually, Sanders would have been the second Jew “on the ticket,” the first being Lieberman in 2000.

      • 0 avatar
        Frylock350

        @FreedMike

        We didn’t put Lieberman there; Gore chose him as a running mate. Sanders would have been chosen by an American electorate that will only vote for Christians (or those who appear publicly Christian).

        @bball40dtw,

        I personally think Obama is an atheist that wraps himself in Christianity for political expediency. Also note that I don’t intend this as a dig against him; religious beliefs (or lack thereof) have no relevance to ability to govern. Regardless of one’s personal opinions of the man, recognize that he got stuff done. He delivered on many of his campaign promises and accomplished far more than most presidents do. I’m not saying I support or agree with all the work he’s done; just recognizing that he did it.

        @BTSR,

        I’d vote for you. You would confuse social justice warriors by not fitting their narrative. I would thoroughly enjoy that.

        One policy recommendation, please replace the EV tax credit with the HELLCAT tax credit! Then I can tell the mrs “see if I buy a hellcat it has tax benefits!” and then I can buy a Hellcat.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Isn’t the current president a black Muslim?

      (I’m kidding)

      • 0 avatar

        I think you may be right.

        The sad thing is, this country is so in love with voting against White men that I COULD WIN IN 2016 IF I WAS RUNNING even if I was saying the same rhetoric Trump is.

        I’d easily get the Black vote.

        Liberal Whites.

        Florida, NYC, California…

        and since I’m a gun lover, I think I could sway conservatives.

        The KKK endorsed Obama because they felt anger at him would help people join their group.

        I really think I’d do well with everyone EXCEPT car enthusiasts and “professional car reviewers”

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          You’re too black and conservative. Us Americans like our black politicians to be liberal and no more than medium in their shade of blackness.

          • 0 avatar

            I was at the SCOTUS last week and met Clarence Thomas.

            How do you explain him?

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Clarence Thomas has never been elected to anything (by the voting public). He was appointed to all his positions by Reagan or Bush.

            He wouldn’t make it past the GOP primaries.

          • 0 avatar

            bball

            Some might say that Clarence Thomas was “their African American”

            Since I believe the ends justify the means and Clarence Thomas’ name has been etched into history FOREVER, I would definitely conclude that he did what had to be done to get where he wanted to be.

            I will be doing the same.

            I don’t care what others think about me so long as I win.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Clarence Thomas has been a very successful man by almost any measure. He still would never be elected president.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            Clarence Thomas was completely unqualified to serve on the SCOTUS, and it was absolutely cynical of George H.W. Bush to nominate him, as he did so knowing that the democrats in the Senate would not deny a SCOTUS seat to the 1st African-American justice.

            And for the record, since his taking a seat on the court, Thomas’ record has been underwhelming and incredibly dogmatic, to put it mildly.

          • 0 avatar
            Mr. Orange

            @deadweight Scalia is the second African-American American Supreme Court justice.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Obama is black?

    • 0 avatar
      Testacles Megalos

      It’s not fully out of the question that Sanders will head the DNC ticket. Depends on how quickly – and if – somebody can get the Email Server info into the public domain. No, the AG will never indict Hillary at least not without the threat of a populist insurrection. I think it will happen like this: the DNC made hay over Nixon’s burglers who didn’t begin to threaten national security. They sure as heck don’t want to risk looking like Republicans over a presidency marred by an even worse criminal proceeding. If the mainstream parties have already lost most public trust, finding out your party’s candidate/president is a bona-fide criminal will spell the end of your party….
      Say what you want about Bernie, he seems up front and a straight shooter, even if he is shooting a ridiculous weapon at phantom targets.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “his views on trade and returning the USA to a more isolationist role in international affairs.”

      Never happen.

      Big business likes big money which requires big military.

  • avatar
    Drzhivago138

    Giant Meteor 2016
    Just end it already

  • avatar
    OneAlpha

    I don’t like either candidate, but if someone put a gun to my head and told me that I had to vote for either Hillary or Trump right now, I’d vote for Trump.

    Ironically, because there are more question marks attached to Trump. Trump is selfish, but Hillary’s insane.

    See, I don’t trust Trump, but I trust him to ALWAYS do what’s in his best interests. If he can be convinced that the country’s best interests are his as well, he’ll do what’s right for America.

    Hillary, on the other hand, is an unreconstructed Stalinist.

    She’s the sort who thinks the Soviet Union failed not because of the inherent design flaws in socialism, but because THE RIGHT PEOPLE WEREN’T RUNNING IT. That a hundred million dead in the name of some insane vision of utopia is simply a process cost.

    In other words, she believes in an ideology that advocates and practices genocide, slavery and the destruction of civilization in the name of power.

    There are no question marks where she’s concerned. You can see it in her cold, dead eyes.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “See, I don’t trust Trump, but I trust him to ALWAYS do what’s in his best interests. If he can be convinced that the country’s best interests are his as well, he’ll do what’s right for America.”

      and if they’re not?

    • 0 avatar
      Bokonon

      OneAlpha – are you for real? Seriously?

      Please provide some proof of your claim that Hillary Clinton is “an unreconstructed Stalinist”. And that she consequently believes in genocide, murder, slavery, 100 million dead, etc. That whole parade of horribles you just provided.

      And don’t cite InfoWars or other garbage stuff like that as your foundation. Real facts, and real proof.

      Unless you are just trolling us.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Insert your favourite politician here….. and add “believes in an ideology that advocates and practices genocide, slavery and the destruction of civilization in the name of power.”

      Dubya, Cheney and Rumsfeld fit that box too.

      Oops. My bad.

      It is only evil if it happens to be labeled socialist or communist.

      Ever hear the saying, “In capitalism man exploits man, in communism it is the other way around.” ??????????

      Here is another, “”Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

  • avatar
    redapple

    Should we stay on the same course (Clinton) or try a businessman’s (Trump) approach?

    Since 2009:
    – increase of adults not in the work force to 95,000,000 people.
    – fall in average wages from $57,000 in 2009 to $53,000 now. (and an increase in taxes of ~ 4% bringing that effective current wage to about $51,000).
    – average of 1-2 % yearly growth in the economy.
    – an economy so weak that there are more people on welfare than work in the private sector.
    – 10 of 12 months per year, each year since 2009; more people drop out of the job market than new jobs created.

    I could go on.

    You decide.

    • 0 avatar
      Bokonon

      Yeah – you could go on. You are absolutely right.

      For example, when you say we should try a “businessman’s approach” by going with Trump, you could provide some more detail of what that means.

      Do you mean the practice of refusing to pay your suppliers and business partners what you owe, using lawsuits for intimidation, and repeatedly resorting to strategic bankruptcies? Like Trump has done repeatedly throughout his business career?

      Trump already suggested that if he becomes President, he would try that same approach – like simply renegotiating the yield on Treasury bonds, and require creditors to take a “haircut” on their holdings (against a threat of default). Because that sort of thing worked great for Trump in the casino business. Why should the full faith and credit of the United States be any different? Granted, screwing with T-Bills would probably cause a global economic meltdown if the US government tried that, but Trump is just being authentic and spontaneous, right?

      You decide.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    I suspect that you were just looking for an excuse to create some buzz about Gary Johnson, whose odds of becoming president in 2017 are about as good as mine. (And no, I am not running for president.)

    Similarly, the odds of the US withdrawing from NAFTA are even lower than that. Trump can say what he wants, but that ain’t gonna happen even if he is elected.

    The car industry is driven largely by macroeconomic cycles. I suspect that Trump would be bad for business for a time because he is a loose cannon. Loose cannons make businesses anxious, and anxiety is bad for business.

    On the other hand, presidents have little actual authority and there isn’t much that Trump could do that would radically change things as they are, in spite of his rhetoric. His messaging is worse than his bite.

    Clinton is more predictable, and she obviously has no intentions of tossing a huge wrench into the system, which is reassuring.

  • avatar
    dwford

    Back to how these candidates will affect the auto industry – not at all. Not one bit. Trump is never going to get protectionist sanctions against imported autos, especially those imported by Ford, GM, and FCA. Clinton doesn’t care about that issue at all. CAFE standards have already been ramped up under Bush and Obama, and neither candidate will be raising them further. A Clinton labor department might make it easier for workers to unionize, which might have some effect on the automakers – mostly the transplants, but that’s about it.

    • 0 avatar
      tonycd

      Good post, DW. I was wondering if someone was going to talk about cars here.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        tonycd, both Trump and Hillary will impact the US auto industry.

        IMO, Hillary will continue on the green, treehugger path while Trump will encourage automakers and their American suppliers to put more people in America to work and may even overturn some green-agenda items like mpg, engine-size limitations, etc.

        All this to get more people working again, more people paying taxes and buying more cars on credit.

        When it comes to what motivates business, Trump knows his schit. Best of all, Trump can’t be bought. Hillary has been bought and paid for, just like Obama was.

        But Trump has no chance of being elected, so we can all plan on Hillary being POTUS. Most Americans will want to see that first woman-POTUS in the White House and will vote accordingly.

        • 0 avatar
          Bokonon

          I can assure your … there are plenty of us that will vote for one of Trump’s opponents (Clinton or Gary Johnson) on something other than affirmative action grounds.

          You must think we are stupid or something. That would be a mistake.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            “You must think we are stupid or something.”

            Jonathan Gruber already went on the record with that.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    For those wanting to vote for a conservative – meaning a limited government representative – Gary Johnson is your candidate.

    For those wanting to vote for a woman – meaning a representative with a vagina – Jill Stein is your candidate.

    For those wanting to vote for a narcissist reality tv star – meaning a bat sh*t crazy, self absorbed representative, Donald Trump is your candidate.

    For those wanting to vote for a woman with the aforementioned vagina – a corporatist criminal with the FOIA dodging, private email server to prove it – Hillary Clinton is your candidate.

    No one knows what any of these people would do as president regarding trade, the auto industry and unions, because influence is so easily leased on a 48 month term, but we definitely know that Trump is several versions of crazy and Clinton is the most corrupt candidate fielded by either party in at least the last 40 years.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Gary Johnson should have left the Libertarian Party and ran as a GOP candidate or just run as an independent. That party is looney tunes and will never amount to anything more than throwaway votes.

      • 0 avatar
        tjh8402

        Johnson did run before as a Republican, I think in 2012, before he switched to Libertarian in that election. The GOP had a good Libertarian leaning Republican in the last primary (Rand Paul) who actually had the most sound foreign policy ideas of any candidate from either party, and he went no where. No matter what they say, GOP voters no longer actually care about Liberty. They want an authoritarian who will “take their country back” by any means necessary.

  • avatar
    kmars2009

    Hey Bigtruck! Since you are so knowledgeable(allegedly) and wealthy(allegedly), why aren’t YOU running for President?
    I’d love to watch you flop!
    Being a narcicuss is nothing to brag about.

  • avatar
    mtmmo

    Wow Orange Trump just ripped Hillary a new one calling her a “World class liar” while providing multiple examples backing up his statement. My God she has a ton of baggage. In all my years I can’t think of two worse candidates but Hillary takes the cake for lying and corruption.

    • 0 avatar
      Frode

      I think she’ll find plenty of examples to throw back at Trump.

    • 0 avatar
      Bokonon

      mtmmo … you may want to look into whether those “multiple examples” of lying and corruption that Trump claimed are actually true or not. Most of those claims are garbage.

      Trump is now using the same approach he used during the GOP primaries of creating media circuses … and trying to drown the ordinary political process in sewage. Remember Trump’s claim that Ted Cruz’s father was involved in JFK’s assassination? Did that turn out to be true? Trump smirked about it afterwards.

      Trump literally doesn’t care if the things coming out of his mouth are true or not. All he cares about is winning the latest media cycle and getting attention.

      Be careful. Verify before you believe.

  • avatar
    Frode

    Chris and Mark must be on their second batch of popcorn by now.

  • avatar
    George B

    Chris, you missed one of the candidates on the ballot in a large number of states: Constitution Party candidate Darrel Castle. http://castle2016.com/
    I see Darrell Castle as the conservative candidate for voters who like Ted Cruz and Green Party candidate Jill Stein http://www.jill2016.com/ as the progressive candidate for voters who like Bernie Sanders. Each state has it’s own separate election. If you live in one of the 3/4 of states where one side or the other always wins by a huge landslide, why not cast a protest vote?

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    I really do feel for the US.

    As most know I do lean to the right, but not as much as most think. I do believe in a liveable minimum wage, public health. My biggest gripe with the left is their willingness to throw and abuse tax money, ie, welfare.

    Even though unionisation of the workforce is small, they are overly represented by the left, I dislike this also.

    My biggest gripe with the right is how they forget the middle and little guy.

    But overall the right, even though it’s not perfect is the better way to go.

    I don’t consider Donald Trump right wing. He’s a fool.

    It seems Hilary will be voted in and I do hope the Trans Pacific Trade Pact is approved and makes it through your Congress.

    Freeing up trade benefits all. It allows countries to concentrate on what they are most competitive at. The biggest hurdle currently with the TTP is the US. The auto , some agri and pharma idustries are just to vocal for their benefit and not that of the people of the US. Other countries in the Pact also are unwilling to move as well. So, it is most likely a Pact when you don’t have a Pact. This means less will be beneficial.

    • 0 avatar
      Dynasty

      “Freeing up trade benefits all” Yes. But it is never that simple.

      Our government’s stance on freeing up trade is freeing it up in the sense all the advantage is tilted in favor of the opponent. And just to make things even better for our “trade partner”, we’ll send foreign aid their way. Ooh, and wait. It gets better. Not only are the trade agreements tilted in their favor, not only do we send foreign aid, but we provide a large portion of their military protection as well. And to pay for all of this, we have to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars a year.

      Then finally someone comes along who is willing (at least gives the impression) that America should come first, and he’s branded as a racist, a bigot, a Hitler, etc.

      Apparently, it’s un-American to put America first in America. That’s the world we live in here. In reality, it upsets the apple cart.

  • avatar

    In the past few elections I voted for guys that at least saw the beast–how the middle class was being spied on, robbed blind, asked to fight in needless wars, overtaxed to benefit the lower and upper classes, and generally ignored by the indentured servants masquerading as politicians. Ron Paul in 2012; Sanders in 2016. I don’t give a crap about party labels because the political parties are just equal sides of the same problem, and honestly the way people calve off into their separate camps and pretend their chosen party’s nominee is so much better than the troglodyte in the other camp strikes me as so much tragic comedy.

    None of it matters anymore. The people have been kept divided by social issues and the like, by propoganda-based labelling and socio- and demographic tension, but eventually movements like the Tea Party and Occupy are going to stop fighting amongst themselves and unite behind an outsider. Trump and Sanders are just previews of this phenomenon.

    This is France and Robespierre, Germany and Adolf, the colonies and the founders, et. al. The politicians and the moneyed interests can’t stop it because they are captive to their greed and their desire for power. All they can hope to do is hang on at any cost. The bus is leaving the station. All this has happened before. All this will happen again. To believe otherwise at this juncture is to join Nero.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    The problem with the people who think Donald Trump will “make ‘Murica” great again are not looking at the world.

    Donald Trump can’t change what’s occurring globally any more than Obama.

    This cost lots of dollars.

    Since it’s costing more and more for the US to retain it’s leadership role globally in a world where the US is slowly, but surely losing it’s influence, Trump will totally bankrupt the US.

    So what can he do?

    1. Limit imports, ie, forcing people to buy what the minority wants them to buy?

    2. Reduce illegal immigration by forcing the Mexicans to build the “Great Wall of the USA”?

    3. Revitalise the US military?

    4. Tell the Chinese to basically “fnck off”?

    The reality is that many in the US must realise the US doesn’t have the influence it had 50 years ago. This influence is driven by trade and control of trade.

    If Trump succeeds in screwing your trading relationship with others, why do you need a military as you do. This will only reduce the US’es presence and leadership globally.

    So, if Trump wants all to buy “Murican what has he achieved? He’s distanced himself from friends and allies and he will dramatically increase the cost of living to all Americans. Which Americans will suffer the most? The poor and middle class.

    I really believe those who support Trump and his rants are really disconnected from reality. He will greatly degrade the US and it’s position globally.

    To all of the ‘Murican Trump supporters. The US isn’t what it was. It is now only 40% of what it was in the 60s. Others have been able to stand up and become competitive.

    I think this is a problem with a considerable portion of ‘Muricans. They just don’t know how to manage and accept that others can achieve near on what the US can and has done.

    Oddly enough, this is what ‘Murica wanted the world to do, be like us. Now you must live with it.

    Or, go around depressing other countries so you can retain you power. This ain’t going to occur. Trump will not make ‘Murica great.

    Consensus is needed for the US to maintain its global role, not some dimwit who disillusioned about his power and how to manage that power.

    • 0 avatar
      Eyeflyistheeye

      Aside from my usual gripes about your visceral disdain for the United States and how you have no right to tell us what to do since you have no stake or any kind of legitimate concern for the well being of my country, there’s another reason why your opinion doesn’t count.

      You voted for and enthusiastically supported Tony Abbott, who during his tenure was hands-down, the most embarrassing leader of any first-world country. Hell, his first exposure to American audiences was when John Oliver described him as a “human car wreck.” I mean, the idiot killed Australian automobile manufacturing to save money and ended up spending more to put those workers on the dole, retrain them and give some incentives for the areas to have some semblance of industry. Not to mention that you sheep-shaggers now have no infrastructure that can be requisitioned if need be to build armaments assuming your beloved China turns on Australia. But you wouldn’t care, if China went to war with Australia, you’d cream your pants and turn into Vichy Al, kissing the Chinese government’s butt and sell out your fellow Australians in exchange for a craptastic Great Wall SUV.

      http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/tony-abbott-is-a-car-crash-of-a-human-being-says-comedian-john-oliver-20150302-13sog5.html

      I’d say Australia’s way out of things once the mining bubble bursts is to legalize prostitution, but that would just make things more expensive for me since most bogan sheilas will go home with a Yank for a pack of Winnie Blues and a shot of Jack Daniel’s.

      • 0 avatar
        Kenmore

        Excellent comment but you addressed it to sclerotic arteries in an already rhino-tiny brain.

      • 0 avatar

        From what I can tell China is actively distributing propaganda in Australia news media to push there allegiance.
        http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2016/05/31/Australian-media-deals-a-victory-for-Chinese-propaganda.aspx

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        Eyeflyistheeye,
        I don’t disdain the US for starters, and I’m also a US citizen. I do spend a considerable amount of time in the US with my family. So, your comment/retort reeks of subjectivity.

        Now, I did vote for Tony Abbott. He was better than any other offering available. I do support the stopping of tax dollars and tariffs on imports, including motor vehicles.

        I see it this way, why pay a company money, a foreign company at that money to remain in Australia? What good is that? A V8 car? Fnck the car.

        I suppose you didn’t know Coca Cola approached the Abbott government just after the GMH/Ford/Toyota/Nissan issue wanting handouts. Coca Cola! Especially after they just made nearly $500 million profit in Australia. The government rightly told them to fnck off. They wanted money to modernise one of their canneries in the Goulbourn Valley. Abbott told them and all other industries no more tax payer handouts. If you can’t compete you might just as well leave the country. I support this whole heartedly.

        As for armaments, WTF?? Why do we need a large armaments industry? Really, what a goose you are. It’s far cheaper to import most of that stuff.

        Our military industrial complex is quite large already considering our 24 million population. Have a look at what Australia does engineer, design and manufacture prior to making a total fool of yourself.

        One area we are falling down is adequate communications infrastructure. But, guess what! That industry is protected and almost monopolised, which shoots down your argument. It seems when protectionism, government ownership is to large in industries it shouldn’t even be involved in progress and productivity drops.

        I don’t understand the subjectivity some place on automobile manufacturing in a country. They are appliances to most everyone. It appears the only ones who car are either the Trump National Socialists or the Hillary Socialists.

        Have a look at the polarisation in the EU and US regarding politics. It is diverging. Why? It’s because people like you who don’t have a clue blame all but yourselves for the situation you find yourselves in.

        Oh, so how much did the government save and how much did the “dole” cost.

        The taxpayer handouts to the auto manufactures would of went on for eternity because we aren’t competive. Only $185 million was spent on the dole and other programs for the dismantling of the auto industry. $800 million a year was dumped into the auto industry. That’s a lot of money for Australia’s 16 million taxpayers.

  • avatar
    Eyeflyistheeye

    Hillary Clinton is a deplorable human being. Instead of Trump proving he has what it takes, he continues to shoot himself in the foot and while I was leaning towards him, I’m not going to support someone who makes it dangerous to support them and can’t do the bare minimum of running a competent campaign and raising funds. With third-parties, I expect integrity at the bare minimum, even if they cannot deliver any realistic or sustainable policies. The Libertarians have shown they can be as whorish as any of the big two parties by nominating William Weld for Vice President, who is the exact opposite of libertarian, hell, Trump or Hillary could have nominated Weld as their running mate and I wouldn’t have batted an eye. That leaves Jill Stein, who is a principled, decent human being, but I’d rather take even Clinton over her because I don’t need to live in a country where SJWs call the shots, animals have more rights than humans and everyone’s mandated to drive electric.

    I’ll most likely vote for Trump. He’s non-ideological (sometimes flip-flopping can be a good thing, why stay the course if it isn’t working?!) and does only what it takes to win, and as a serious editorial once stated, he’s very, very comfortable dealing with debt. As a businessman myself, debt is a creature all to itself and the best way out isn’t always austerity but sometimes bluffing, knee-dragging and restructuring to keep things afloat.

    While I blame the protesters 99% for all the violence that’s going on around Trump, he isn’t making it easy to publicly support him either. As I got enough flak for supporting Romney in 2012 (IMHO, I might have voted Obama again if I knew he was going to learn and rebound from his crappy first term), it’s not worth it for me to come out and support him, though BTSR does get his wish from me.

  • avatar
    Dan

    I’ve held my nose to whatever degree was necessary to vote a straight Republican ticket in every election since I was 19 years old but I have my limit and that petty, vindictive narcissist is it. I’m embarrassed to have him as the public spokesman for the things that I mostly believe in. I’m disgusted by how quickly the people who used to say that character mattered turned their back on that. I’m outright terrified of the SJW supermajority that’s coming in on his coat tails.

    Smoke em if you got em cause things are getting awfully worse awfully quick.

    • 0 avatar
      Kenmore

      50 years of white indigestion over Great Society policies and rampant, job-murdering globalism have given the US body politic a gargantuan case of constipation for which Trump is willing (very calculatedly) to be a megadose of Ex-Lax.

      Ain’t no way that can smell good.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Kenmore:
        Considering my line of work, that is a metaphor I fully understand. LOL

        • 0 avatar
          Kenmore

          Sorry, man. Hope that’s only an occasional thing for you.

          That metaphor occurred to me as I was actually popping some Ex Lax out of their gotdamn foil prison because of percoset for the hip.

          I thought “This is gonna make me great again!”

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Kenmore – opioids are bad for that.

            “Sorry, man. Hope that’s only an occasional thing for you.”

            Ha Ha. NO. Not personally.

            I do spend an inordinate amount of time teaching people how to regulate their bowels.
            “Bowel care” day was often referred to as poop patrol. Pretty common on Geriatric units.

            I must be a “no brain, no pain” type since I used maybe 12 Tylenol #3’s post op.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            Ah.. got it. Good. This is one time it’s way better to teach and not do.

            “I used maybe 12 Tylenol #3’s post op”

            You’re a stronger man than I, Gunga Din. I still have some Tylenol 3s left with one more refill available. That’s my security blankie!

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Kenmore –

            In that case, yes , “Tis better to give than receive”.

            BTW, the codeine in T3’s are really bad for constipation. Much worse than percocet.

    • 0 avatar
      ptschett

      I’m coming from a very similar place. I actually liked W in ’00 and ’04; I was able to hold my nose for McCain & Romney considering the alternative; but I decided almost a year ago that I was voting Libertarian as a protest if Trump were the GOP nominee. I’m even going to vote Libertarian down-ballot too (my congressman, Kevin Cramer, was an early and enthusiastic Trump supporter.) At this point the only way the GOP candidate gets my vote is through a delegate revolt that nominates someone else.

  • avatar
    Magnusmaster

    As an Argentinian and Latino, I hope Trump never gets elected. He is a danger to Latinos worldwide, and maybe even the entire world, because not only he is crazy but he is supported by the latent crazy white supremacist crowd within American Republicans. I have heard that you could put a monkey as US President and nothing would change… I hope that is the case.

    • 0 avatar
      mtmmo

      For the sake of the world please don’t have kids.

    • 0 avatar
      Dynasty

      “He is a danger to Latinos worldwide”

      Right, because all Latinos worldwide by right of heritage should automatically be given US citizenship if so desired no questions asked.

      It would not be fair any other way. Immigration is just so 19th Century.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        the US recognizes citizenship both by jus soli (“right of the land”) and jus sanguinus (“right of the blood.”) you can claim US citizenship if you were born inside the US or its territories, and if you weren’t you can claim citizenship if at least one of your parents is a US citizen (with some conditions.) Trump’s demonizing of Latinos (and let’s not candy-coat it, he’s talking about Mexicans) means his supporters believe the children of immigrants shouldn’t be citizens. At all. whether they’re here legally or otherwise.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          JimZ, it is a little more involved when it comes to the descendants of the Brazeros, the Mexicans who were invited in 1942 to work in America for the duration when the Americans were off fighting WWII.

          Once here, many did not leave at the end of their work contract.

          And while here, they bred like good Catholics.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            ……….and judging by your typical commentary, you aren’t a good Christian let alone Catholic.

  • avatar
    Shawnski

    This thread which has an above average sampling for TTAC, shows me two things; that the majority of posters are left of center, with a penchant for latent bigotry, (and it’s not just racism). A case of moral superiority?

    • 0 avatar
      Bokonon

      I agree that there is some pretty alarming stuff going on in this thread, but I disagree that the real problem being shown here is “latent bigotry” by liberals.

      Come on. Nope. Not that.

      Let’s retire that silly talk radio jive.

    • 0 avatar
      Kenmore

      “the majority of posters are left of center”

      *chuckle*

      As always, you only know what you’ve been allowed to know.

    • 0 avatar
      Dynasty

      If a liberal were racist they would never admit it. But they will be the first to point their finger at someone who disagrees with their world view as being a racist.

      • 0 avatar
        Kenmore

        I seen ’em do that!

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        A world view filtering people based upon racial attributes real or perceived is racist.
        Not agreeing upon someone’s geopolitical views or meddling based upon ideology is not racist.
        Ironically political ideology was removed from the Geneva Convention on Human Rights post WWII by just as many democratic countries as they were by totalitarian regimes.

  • avatar
    mchan1

    Trump vs Hillary… pick the lessor of 2 evils.

    The country needs jobs!
    The country needs Less regulations!
    The country needs a smaller federal and state governments!

    Generally, Can’t wait for Boomers to die off!
    Having read and heard elsewhere regarding Boomers.. “Die Already!”

    Then you have to deal with their spoiled, entitled Brats.. the millennials, who are following their parents’ footsteps in destroying America. Pushing PC [email protected] to Everyone who disagrees with them.

    It’s easy to turn from somewhat liberal to a conservative when dealing with the Boomers and their [email protected] millennials!

    Guess maturing means getting some wisdom!

    Heaven help America!

  • avatar
    Fred

    258, and counting, mostly bs comments of name calling and picking on poor BTSR. No matter the results it looks like we will still be divided and nothing will get done. Cries of compromise will go unanswered and we will keep pointing fingers. That’s too bad for YOU. Me I’ll be retired, living in the Sierras and I’ll be fine. Well as long as I stay healthy and you cheap ass Tea Party clowns don’t screw up my Medicare and Social Security.


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