By on May 28, 2016

Tesla Model X, Image: Tesla Motors

Bad PR from customers annoyed by their problem-plagued Tesla Model X SUVs continues to hammer the electric automaker.

A lawsuit filed against Tesla by a California man is the latest bit of bad news (and press) for the company. According to Barrett Lyon, the bizarre electrical gremlins running loose in his Model X turned his vehicle into a static driveway decoration.

It’s no wonder Tesla CEO Elon Musk sleeps at the office and keeps his desk at the end of the production line.

The problems reported by Lyon and the initial delay in getting the Model X to customers are a big reason why Musk wants to manufacture his own parts.

Lyon, who already owns a Tesla Roadster and a Model S, paid $162,000 for the vehicle. Soon after, strange things began to happen.

“The doors do some weird, wicked things,” Lyon told Courthouse News. “If you get in and slide sideways and accidentally tap the brake, the driver’s side door slams shut on your leg. That’s not a very nice thing to have happen to you.”

The automatic doors also slammed shut on his wife, Lyon claimed, and opened unexpectedly, causing damage to the doors and items inside his garage. In parking lots, the doors open into other vehicles, he claimed.

The gripes outlined in the lawsuit don’t end there. According to Lyon, the autonomous Autopilot feature swerves the vehicle into other lanes during rainstorms, the self-parking feature doesn’t work 90 percent of the time, and the touchscreen freezes for no reason.

Allegedly, Tesla Motors was unable to fix the vehicle, so Lyon filed suit to get his purchase amount and registration fee back. He’s also seeking damages for breach of warranty and California Lemon Law violations.

The Model X now sits idle in his driveway.

“You buy a car like that, you expect it to work,” Lyon said. “It’s become clear to me that the car wasn’t ready for consumers. The service center is completely unprepared for the kind of problems they’re having.”

In April, Tesla recalled 2,700 Model X vehicles to prevent rear seatback failures. Other instances of problems with the model’s signature “falcon wing” doors have been reported, as well as complaints about loose weatherstripping and frayed carpets.

[Source: Courthouse News Service] [Image: Tesla Motors]

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103 Comments on “Ghost in the Machine: Man Sues Over Possessed Tesla Model X...”


  • avatar
    mustang462002

    Elon Muske should probably move that sleeping bag to inside the cars.

    • 0 avatar
      sportyaccordy

      Hey man, he’s a huckster, not an idiot. Let the guinea pigs put their lives…. sorry, let’s involve the customers in the development process in a way no manufacturer has done before. We are looking at the future of automobiles, folks! The future is so cutting edge it just sliced my leg off below the knee.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      This “news” item gives the B&B a great opportunity to bring out the usual claptrap about how evil Tesla and Musk are. But if we were to examine the actual complaints, just for a moment, we’d see this really isn’t newsworthy. Let’s just take a look:

      Complaint #1: Front doors close when you tap the brake.
      – That’s how they’re supposed to work. If you don’t like the automatic doors, buy something else.

      Complaint #2: Door closed and opened unexpectedly on wife:
      – Either a sensor is off, or your wife hasn’t learned how the doors work yet (more likely)

      Complaint #3: autopilot causes car to change lanes in the rain
      – Maybe don’t use it in the rain? This sort of thing is pretty common. My Honda beeps at me to brake every time I go down a hill. You don’t see me calling a lawyer

      Complaint #4: touchscreen freezes.
      – Likely with an early model. Talk to CUE and early MyFordTouch users about it.

      Some teething problems perhaps, but this has all the markings of a loser who realizes he can’t afford his new car, and wants some publicity to go with his money back.

      • 0 avatar
        Kenmore

        “Maybe don’t use it in the rain?”

        Well, hell NO, you don’t take a electronical car out in the rain!
        Rain is water!

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Blaming the customer for design and engineering errors is fanboyism at its worst.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          error / feature — potayto / potahto

          Honestly. Read the actual complaints listed and tell me: is this really worth hiring a lawyer and a publicist over, or shouldn’t he just RTFM?

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            If a door is going to be automated, then it should have a sensor that would stop it from closing if there is an obstruction (i.e. a human body part) that is in the way.

            That’s Safety 101. If GM did something that was as negligent as that, then you would understand immediately what the problem is. But since it’s Tesla, you refuse to acknowledge the obvious.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            “is this really worth hiring a lawyer and a publicist over..?”

            Veering into oncoming lanes? You kiddin’?

            And when *could* you trust it? Sunny days only? Partial overcasts? Sprinkles? How long to wait after you splashed through a puddle..?

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            “a sensor to stop closing if there is an obstruction (i.e. a human body part) that is in the way.”

            Oh, yeah… like those whoppingly expensive garage door closers I’ve been reading about.

            Can’t wait till those come down in price!

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          Blaming a customer for mis-use of the vehicle is not fanboyism. We already know he’s misused it in at least one way and clearly he has been less than straightforward about some other aspects of his suit.

          • 0 avatar
            smartascii

            There is an entire discipline devoted to ergonomics and user interaction with complex systems. If even a small percentage of the population gets into a vehicle and puts their foot on the brake pedal before closing the door, then programming the car to use that particular event as its trigger to close the door automatically is bad design.
            Another is the double-click of the Park button to trigger autopark. It isn’t even remotely unreasonable to think that someone who isn’t accustomed to the stub-and-button gear selector might inadvertently double-click the button and then be very surprised when they get out of the car and it starts creeping forward.
            These things are not “mis-use” of the vehicle. They are poor user-interface decisions which will doubtless be improved in the future, but expecting your $160,000 car to be a finished design that has been property conceived and executed (and that does not injure you) is reasonable. Tesla doesn’t get a pass on these things just because it’s Tesla.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            Again, he has clearly mis-used the vehicle in at least one way; we don’t KNOW the circumstances behind his other issues, only read his claims on the issues. The car itself has recorded those circumstances and may (only may) have transmitted its actual activities during them, allowing Tesla to A) determine the truth behind the claims and B) if necessary, modify the coding or design to minimize those issues. Again, I suggest viewing the YouTube review/comparison of the Model X to the Bentley SUV. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-02b2ooLY&ab_channel=MotorTrendChannel )

            The review of the Model X starts at around the 15-minute mark with a discussion of the automatic doors around the 17 minute mark.

            Based on that video and for the moment assuming nominal function, this leads me to believe the claimant is not accessing the vehicle as intended.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            Vulpy,

            You are a heart-rendingly loyal and indefatigable defender of things you’ll never get to have and that don’t cause a fraction of your allegiance in those who do.

            There’s got to be something in the DSM 5 about that.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            “You are a heart-rendingly loyal and indefatigable defender of things you’ll never get to have and that don’t cause a fraction of your allegiance in those who do.”

            There is only one way in which I will “never get to have” a Tesla and that’s if I die, first. Because I don’t expect them to recall the entire fleet and destroy them the way GM did with the EV-1 and Teslas are already available in my area. I just happen to want something a little bit different from the current models and there are at least three different models expected to arrive within the next 10 years.

      • 0 avatar
        Joss

        3 Tesla? Ha ha rich person’s headaches.

      • 0 avatar
        quasimondo

        So, a man goes to the doctor one day and says, “Hey, doc, my arm always hurts when I move it like this.”

        The doctor replies, “Then stop moving it that way.”

        I’ll be here all week, folks.

  • avatar
    qfrog

    Somebody may have been watching a bit too much Ghost in the Shell.

  • avatar
    Whatnext

    The doors are a silly gimmick.

    • 0 avatar

      The doors are the only thing that sets the Model X apart from the oncoming slew of EV crossovers.

      Maybe TESLA should have offered a gull version and a regular version – or a minivan door version?

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        I doubt it. Tesla has *all* of the mindshare right now. The Model X would sell even without the Falcon doors. But it should have had conventional doors. It would have cost less, been far less problematic, and they’d probably have shipped on time.

        “Delight the customer” features are all well and good, but they /need to work!/ Tesla needs to remember what their core product is; high-performance long range EVs. right now they’re spending too much effort on expensive “gee whiz” stuff and blaming suppliers for poor design decisions.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        “The doors are the only thing that sets the Model X apart from the oncoming slew of EV crossovers.”

        Not the only thing; those other EV crossovers simply don’t exist… yet.

        “Maybe TESLA should have offered a gull version and a regular version – or a minivan door version?”

        While I agree with this statement, Musk did commit them to Falcon-wing doors a couple years ago so he had to at least produce enough to keep his word. I think the Model X v.2 will either see strong improvements or a reversion to something more conventional. Meanwhile, I recently watched a review of the Model X compared to a Bently CUV that does show how those doors work when performing properly. It leads me to question if this individual is expecting too much from a first-generation concept.

  • avatar

    I realize that Teslas are considered premium cars with the sort of gadgetry that go with the label. But why automate everything? The last thing people want, is to have a car that has a life of its own.

    • 0 avatar
      kurkosdr

      “I realize that Teslas are considered premium cars with the sort of gadgetry that go with the label. But why automate everything? The last thing people want is to have a car that has a life of its own.”

      Most Tesla Model X’s don’t have those problems, otherwise the Detroit-friendly part of the automotive press would definitely report (just like they have reported on the gull wing doors not working and the shoddy interior build quality).

      The man obviously got a lemon with faulty electrics and possibly faulty electronics, and Tesla is being a dick by not offering a replacement.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        the normal process is to file a suit under your state’s “lemon law,” whatever it may actually be titled. Most automakers won’t buy back a vehicle unless you file such a suit. and by listening to Steve Lehto, at least in some states the law also lets you recover attorney’s fees, so it doesn’t cost you much out of pocket.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      “The last thing people want, is to have a car that has a life of its own.”

      Remember Herbie, the Love Bug? How many people wanted a Herbie all their own? Granted, it’s been a long time since those movies, but Herbie still has his fans and Tesla seems to be trying, at least, to accommodate them.

    • 0 avatar
      rpn453

      “The last thing people want, is to have a car that has a life of its own.”

      That’s the last thing I want, but most people do seem to want a vehicle that can interfere with their commands behind the wheel. Even on a site or forum for automotive enthusiasts, you’ll be chastised if you suggest that you want full control of a modern vehicle.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        You can never satisfy all people, rpn. If you demand full control of your car, those who are afraid of “street racers” will be afraid that you won’t be able to avoid crashing into them. On the other hand, there are those who HAVE full control of their cars and honestly shouldn’t; those who are inattentive behind the wheel, distracted or simply incapable of the level of control they once enjoyed. Those are the ones who NEED an autonomous car to carry them around because they’re too proud to call on a cab or handicap transit service.

        I, for one, consider the antilock braking systems too much of a nanny… more than once they’ve come within inches of involving me in a crash because they thought my car was at a full stop as I slid on ice another 150 feet or more. So-called ‘pumping the brake’ doesn’t work when it never lets go. Then again, I learned in a time when we didn’t have such nannies and learned how to properly control a car. Today’s cars and trucks simply won’t let you test their limits any more, so you simply can’t know how they’ll react in an emergency situation. It comes to a point of having control to the point of catastrophe.

        • 0 avatar
          krhodes1

          Guess what Vulpine? If you had been driving a car without ABS you probably would have slid just as far. No traction is no traction. And the computer can pump the brakes a heck of a lot better than you can. Faster, far more precisely, and each wheel individually.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            But if the system thinks the car is stopped and doesn’t give the tires even a chance to start rolling again, it’s 100% useless. The only time ABS is fully effective is on DRY pavement.

          • 0 avatar
            krhodes1

            Maybe in 1996. IN 2016, the car knows better. At least assuming the car is anything decent.

            My first car with a modern stability/traction control system was a 2008 Saab 9-3SC. I was astounded by the amount of intentional stupidity I could play around with behind the wheel and the car would not put a wheel wrong. My 2011 BMW takes that up a notch, and my 2016 BMW took it up yet another notch. The 2016 has well-judged selectable levels of nannyness, from “no fun for you” to “have fun, but I will keep you from doing something stupid”, to “you are on your own, [email protected]”.

            Yes, there are times when it is fun to turn the nannies off and just screw around. But that time is not on a public road at this point. Cars are just too fast, and modern suspension and tire tech means they feel great right up to the point you make a big hole in the woods on the side of the road. Never mind the unexpected when you aren’t entirely paying attention, and nobody pays attention to what they are doing 100% of the time. That isn’t human. If I want 100% analog, I have an old Triumph Spitfire to drive. It is too slow to get into much trouble with, and it never goes out in the rain or snow.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            “Yes, there are times when it is fun to turn the nannies off and just screw around. But that time is not on a public road at this point.”
            I’ll agree with that. But it would be nice if every car offered that option and not some $40K playboy’s car (I don’t buy used if I can avoid it.)

            ” If I want 100% analog, I have an old Triumph Spitfire to drive. It is too slow to get into much trouble with, and it never goes out in the rain or snow.”
            I’m pretty close to that with my ’97 Ranger. ABS only operates on the rear of that thing.

          • 0 avatar
            krhodes1

            In 2016 every one of the common mid-size sedans has just as good a system as that ’08 Saab, and probably better. As good as my $50K+ BMW, probably not, but with ~180hp you don’t need as good a system as in a 326hp rocketship. I drive perfectly ordinary rental cars all the time in all weather conditions all over the country, and not once have I ever felt the need to turn the nannies off.

            If your frame of reference is an antediluvian pickup truck, you don’t even know what you are missing.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            My frame of reference is a 2014 Fiat 500 (a blast to drive) and a 2008 JKU Wrangler (where the ESC can be turned off… below 35mph.) The pickup is almost a toy by comparison to the Jeep, though it’s weaker than the Fiat with that little 2.3L mill under the hood. Still, it has enough torque to spin a tire on dry pavement.

            My point is that when I buy a car or truck I want the ability to have fun in it. I despise full-time nannies and the ones in the Jeep are a little too aggressive; setting the auto-on to 45mph from 35 would make a world of difference. But again, the ABS still has a lot to learn about functioning on ice.

          • 0 avatar

            @Vulpine
            I’ve had two cars with ABS, a ’93 Saturn and my current car, an ’08 Civic. It has worked fine when I needed it in both cars. One time, in the mid-90s, I didn’t realize how slick the road was. The abs worked, but could barely even slow the car down. I knew I was going into the intersection, but with the ABS working, I turned to go with the flow of traffic on the cross street, and I was fine. Nowadays if the road is slick, I constantly test the brakes to see what I’m dealing with. And the ABS always seems to know what it’s dealing with.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            There’s a reason why I drive a 4×4 on ice today. People say 4×4 is great for getting moving but can’t help you stop; those are people who don’t understand how 4×4 works. With all 4 wheels powered, you can use the engine to help you slow, just as you used the engine to help you go. Simple physics and practical experience. I drove that Camaro through two different blizzards without ever going off the road; this specific case was a road that looked perfectly clear (though I knew I was on a bridge in sub-freezing temperatures so was already driving VERY gingerly) when a light changed some 1000′ in front of me, more or less. Downhill with a slight curve and the light at the bottom of the hill. I won’t say I had full control of the car, but it never spun and came to a stop dead straight… in the middle of the intersection. Fortunately, the other cars saw me coming and waited until I stopped to start rolling.

    • 0 avatar
      Whatnext

      Christine 2.0

    • 0 avatar
      smartascii

      Yeah, but Teslas appeal to early-adopters and people who appreciate technology “because we can.” Electric cars have some benefits over ICE-powered vehicles, but on balance, the sacrifices they require outweigh the benefits, and the people who buy them know this. They want one anyway. And for those people, automating everything is a selling point.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        “Electric cars have some benefits over ICE-powered vehicles, but on balance, the sacrifices they require outweigh the benefits, and the people who buy them know this.”

        I will continue to question the “sacrifices” part, though I acknowledge that the car does not appeal to everyone. My argument is with those who claim there are no, or very few, real benefits to owning one outside of being “early-adopters” and/or technophiles.

        • 0 avatar
          smartascii

          Okay. I’m one of those people. I’ll tell you why I don’t think they’re beneficial, though I expect you’ll disagree:

          1) As a cradle-to-grave producer of pollutants and greenhouse gases, EVs are not any better than the conventional vehicles they replace. There are studies on this, and you’re welcome to research it, but basically, because of the battery and shortened lifespan of the vehicle, the production pollution is greater than a conventional vehicle. Even with our current electricity production mix, the operation of the EV is better than its ICE counterpart, but not enough to offset. The best possible option, aside from a used car, is to buy a PHEV, which seems to be the sweet spot.

          2) They’re not cost-competitive without tax subsidies. This will change, but for now, taxpayer money goes to persuading people to buy new EVs, and it’s *my opinion* that this is bad policy.

          3) They are logistically more complex to operate because of charging speed and battery limitations. This, too, may change, but whether that’ll take a year or a century remains to be seen.

          4) They’re sold on the basis that they save money, which requires selective math to demonstrate. Keeping an existing vehicle is more environmentally friendly and less costly than buying a new Leaf, and the Tesla’s price-point makes it a toy.

          The benefits (lots of torque, low noise, no gas stations) are pretty minimal, and except for the gas station one, ICE cars can come pretty close if it’s really important to you. Particularly for $160,000.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            1) As a cradle-to-grave producer of pollutants and greenhouse gases, EVs are not any better than the conventional vehicles they replace.
            — That has not been empirically verified. There are many who make that claim but so far in every case they have willfully left out or inserted data that skews the results in favor of the ICE.
            2) They’re not cost-competitive without tax subsidies.
            — That also has not been empirically verified. While I will grant the current Tesla models are significantly more expensive, the Nissan Leaf has proven itself competitive when including the cost of ‘fuel’ in the equation. Even when ignoring those so-called subsidies, the savings in fuel costs over the life of the vehicle makes them very comparable with the cost of an ICE over the same length of time. Depending on how much it is driven, a Leaf without subsidies would pay for itself through fuel savings in about 8 years, at which point even with repairs the cost of ownership should continue to fall farther below the cost of an ICE.
            3) They are logistically more complex to operate because of charging speed and battery limitations.
            — A specious but illogical argument. Under everyday driving rules they are simpler to operate because the owner climbs in every morning with a full charge which gives maximum available range which exceeds the daily driving needs of 95% of Americans if not most nationalities. The typical round-trip commute is less than 50 miles which itself is roughly half the maximum range of the older version Leaf and one-quarter the range of the upcoming long-range Leaf, Bolt and Tesla Model III. Because they simply do not NEED to stop for fuel on a regular basis, they are far simpler to operate as well as cheaper.
            4) They’re sold on the basis that they save money, which requires selective math to demonstrate.
            — The “selective math” tends to come from the naysayers. They tend to ignore operating costs when it comes to ICE vs BEV and it is in operating costs where the BEV shines. And the price point of the Tesla Model III looks headed towards mid-priced sedan range even before you add in the savings on fuel.

            As such, the benefits are many and not necessarily as expensive as you claim… given time. The Leaf is already proving itself in most ways, though it does have issues due to a lack of engineering to protect the battery pack from heat and cold. The Tesla Model III and *maybe* the Chevy Bolt will demonstrate this more graphically.

          • 0 avatar
            Testacles Megalos

            “empiric” means derived from one’s experience. That’s anecdote or at best associative research and not science.

            What’s the data? These are reproducible units with costs that can be tracked. Where’s the data?

            To those who really fear the idea that humans are warming the earth with ICEs, it cannot be doubted that walking or bicycling is a far cleaner answer to transport, not to mention contributes to combating the true Murkan problem of being fat. At least that’s my empiric thought.

  • avatar
    dr_outback

    There must be more to this story. California has some of the toughest Lemon Laws in the U.S. So this owner should have been able to Lemon Law the vehicle in lieu of a lawsuit. But is that really the American way?

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      a “lemon law” claim usually *is* a lawsuit. that’s how you start the process.

      • 0 avatar
        dr_outback

        Not the ones I’ve dealt with. After 3 attempts to fix a legitimate concern, a Dealership arranges with the Manufacturer to buy the vehicle back and the owner arrives, signs the paperwork and hands over the keys.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          That assumes the dealership is willing to initiate the process. After all, the dealership doesn’t want to lose the sale or all the fees from the sale if they can avoid it.

          And in one personal event that happened just this past week, the dealership would rather charge double or triple for a warranty repair than lose any money on the sale itself. The manager of said dealership flat out told me to contact the OEM and tell them to pay the dealerships price if I wanted my car fixed. They told me the OEM would only authorize a certain amount of money for the repair which was supposedly half the dealership’s cost.

          • 0 avatar
            dr_outback

            There really is no fighting a legit Lemon Law claim. What usually ends up making it difficult is a mix of buyers remorse creating several unrepairable concerns with the vehicle. But the Lemon Law is pretty straightforward, the manufacturer through their dealership has 3 attempts to repair a legitimate and duplicatable issue before having to buy the vehicle back.

            For example, if the ‘H’ button on your keyboard fails, is repaired, fails again, is repaired, and fails yet again, then the 3 attempts to repair the concern have failed; the keyboard is a lemon.

            My experience with a Lemon Law buyback was with a GTI with an unrepairable water leak from the moonroof that may have been caused by an improperly made roof panel. The buyback went very smoothly for the owner.

            And I am sorry to hear that you’ve had difficulty with covering something under warranty. It might be the Service Managers lack of experience that lead to what he said. If the warranty is indeed backed by the manufacturer, then the repair should be made. Sometimes the warranty guide times are unrealistic and a repair cannot be made as quickly as the guide says, and therefore the dealership and especially a flat-rate technician will lose time and money on the repair. It’s not fair, it shouldn’t happen, and it needs to stop. But it’s the nature of vehicle repair these days.

            For example, Chrysler pays 9.8 hours to R&R the left cylinder head on the Pentastar V6 in the Routan. Most VW technicians have very little experience with the Routan, let alone R&R of a cylinder head. An experienced tech may only lose an hour or so on the repair, but a less experienced tech could spend 20 hours. If he’s flat-rate, he only gets paid 9.8 hours because that’s all the dealership is reimbursed. A smart Service Manager, Service Advisor and Shop Foreman will try to have an hourly tech do the repair, but at the same time, that tech is likely hourly due to less experience, which means a longer repair time and loss of money and time for the dealership.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          if California’s law is as solid as you say it is, then they’ve probably resigned themselves to not even bother fighting claims.

  • avatar
    ja-gti

    Hi-tech company builds fancy car with lots of electronic gizmos that don’t work so well.

    So why is adding more gizmos to make the car autonomous a foregone inevitability?

    I’d hate to need to be somewhere – an important meeting, a wedding, the hospital, etc. – and not be able to get there because of a sensor fault, or a frozen touchscreen, or out-of-date software, EPS module not communicating with throttle CAN, or…

    I know that all modern cars already have a high level of electronic controls. But when the car becomes responsible for the life inside it, and not the other way around, the safety defaults will be set sky high. Any of several thousand components not working 100% correctly? Car does not move until the problem is corrected.

    A future of autonomous transportation represents such a gigantic infrastructure paradigm shift, for benefits that are incremental compared to the initial benefits of the first cars, that it is going to be a looooooonnnnnnggggg time coming.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      I’m going to disagree with some of your points, Ja-gti, because they’re either effectively invalid or an already-outstanding risk with modern ICEVs. Sensor faults and EPS issues don’t disable cars, but they can inhibit them which is just as bad. The software however, at least for Tesla, is almost impossible to let get out of date due to OTA (over the air) updates. The big screen? I’ll admit I don’t know what effect, if any, that will have on the ability to drive the car. It could present other issues even if it doesn’t prevent you from driving.

      I’m sure just like with modern ICEVs, the ability of any single failure to immobilize the vehicle is limited. Yes, I do agree that certain failures should prevent the use of related functionality but unless it is critical for the operation of the car or passenger safety I can’t agree that the cars should be disabled.

      As for autonomous driving, I tend to prefer Tesla’s method of learning directly from the driver than trying to program it off of GPS, ladar and other external sensors and manual keyboard input. Interstate and expressway driving works pretty well with Autopilot from what I’ve seen and from what I’ve read it’s proving more accurate than Google’s efforts on the road than Google, even with an assist from Google’s “Street View” imagery. But no system is completely immune to human bad habits; the Google car hit a bus despite all its sensors and a Tesla let itself get hit from the side by another driver from another report. The only way autonomy will truly work is when the control of all vehicles… or maybe control of all civilian vehicles… is taken out of the hands of non-official humans, meaning those who don’t operate as a sector of law enforcement or emergency services. As long as there’s even one manually-driven car on the road, there’s a risk of illogical behavior causing a crash of some sort.

      • 0 avatar
        SC5door

        “The big screen? I’ll admit I don’t know what effect, if any, that will have on the ability to drive the car. It could present other issues even if it doesn’t prevent you from driving.”

        Not necessarily prevent from driving, but the center screen does control functions that are critical in certain situations. The headlights (if not left in auto), climate control and who knows what else is done through it. Granted Tesla was saved from designing or purchasing off the shelf switches by integrating those controls into the screen.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          I expect it would go into a ‘default’ condition, if it doesn’t just retain the last settings, until it can be repaired/replaced by a technician. I also expect the car would automatically alert the company of the issue, triggering a call from the service center to schedule a service call. If not, the owner can certainly make an ‘800’ call to set one up.

          My point there was that in my opinion, the car would not be disabled, though entertainment and climate control and other non-critical functions might be inaccessible. Then again, I hear a smartphone can access many of the car’s functions if you just have to change them prior to repair.

  • avatar
    sgeffe

    Are the FRONT doors automated? I can understand the side doors, but c’mon, I thought that even on Rollers and Bentleys, you still have to pull the doors gently, then they hit the stop and the closer latches the door for you; and if Jeeves isn’t hauling you around, you still have to push them open!

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      “Are the FRONT doors automated?”
      YES. They unlatch and swing open about 6″ as you approach within a couple feet of the door, then when you clear its swing radius it tries to drive to a full-open position. Supposedly it has sensors to prevent it from swinging into an obstacle, which raises my question about this individual’s complaints.

      • 0 avatar
        sgeffe

        That seems like it’s gonna be a Rube Goldberg thing waiting to happen!

        I give Musk credit for trying, anyway! (Wasn’t there a minor problem with the self-articulating handles on the Model S? I’d want to make sure those are flawless first!) I can’t imagine the complexity of the mechanism for extending the door like that; the packaging for the motors alone must be pretty challenging, not to mention the fail-safes involved!

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          It’s got a lot of sensors in both sets of doors (and elsewhere around the body) but they can be disabled or fooled if there’s something blocking their field of view.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    Back in my commercial vehicle engineering days, I visited a transit bus manufacturer where the legal dept was bigger than the engineering dept.
    (not a good sign LOL)

    But California has a quarter million lawyers on the rolls, so Elon will have plenty of manpower available.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    What does the guy expect?

    He buys a subsidised product, with a massive amount of electronics and something will go wrong every now and then. Pretty much the interfacing of components is becoming more complex. It’s not just Tesla, but all vehicles.

    Tesla is pushing the limits of what it is capable of producing with the current technology it’s employed. Tesla blaming it’s suppliers is a bit rich. This proves that a Tesla product is not the best and built using the cheapest suppliers.

    Also, Tesla by not holding itself accountable and replacing this guys vehicle show contempt towards it’s customer base. If Tesla wants to succeed it must treat it’s customers better.

    Tesla is similar to FCA. Tesla is at the limit of it’s ability using the technology it has. This is proven by the inconsistent and unreliable vehicle FCA produces.

  • avatar
    krhodes1

    Yesterday I was going out to dinner with my friend who has a Model S. The charge cable would not release. He screwed with it for a while, then called Tesla who did a remote diagnostic and said “yup, it’s broken”. We took my BMW to dinner.

    As usual, their customer support is gold-plated, they are sending a guy up from Boston (to Maine) to fix it tomorrow. But for the moment, the car is stuck in his garage. Luckily, he has two other cars as well.

    • 0 avatar
      jpolicke

      Gold plated customer support? The Fortune article the TTAC story linked to was dated April 20, and the Tesla owner in the article was told Tesla couldn’t get him in before the third week in May. Sounds more like brass plated to me.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      Why would they (Tesla) even lock a level 2 charger cable at a home? My Leaf has a switch to select locked, unlocked, or unlock when charged. I never use it at home and only lock if I’m using one of my portable chargers in a public location to keep it from getting stolen.

      That being said, you do have to pay attention to the condition of your charging port and the condition of the connector. Although, from you description, it sounds like an actual lock release issue.

    • 0 avatar
      Joss

      Meh inconvenience of being wealthy eh?

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      You have so many anecdotes about your buddy’s Tesla having issues, and yet you own an old Land Rover and insist it is trouble-free.

      A bit of a credibility issue.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        I certainly have never said my Range Rover is trouble free. I have said I have been pleasantly surprised that it is not as much bother as I expected it to be. It does odd things now and again, but it gets me where I need to go in it, and does what I need it to do.

        But here is the difference – my Range Rover is *15* years old, has 150K miles on it, and cost me $5500. His Tesla is 18 months old, has <20K miles on it, and cost $65K as a CPO used car. I expect an 18 month old car to be nearly trouble free – and as so many on here keep saying "an electric will be more reliable than an ICE car because it is so much simpler". I agree that an electric Corolla MIGHT be more reliable than a gas one, but a $100K electric luxury car is going to have all the same stupid crap break that every other $100K luxury car does, minus the engine, which is typically the least of your worries. I'm just waiting for the air suspension to fail.

  • avatar
    JRobUSC

    it’s amazing to me how willing people are to be beta testers for Teslas (and are willing to risk the lives of everyone around them doing so, like the idiot on YouTube who was using Autopilot from the back seat). I read another article where the Tesla owner literally laughed off the issues that essentially have rendered his car undriveable and said “I have other cars I can drive”. If ANY other brand of car exhibited the behavior many Tesla’s do, consumers would be outraged. The media would lambaste them. Can you imagine if it was a BMW? Holy $hit, the internet would melt. But it’s ok when it happens to a $100k bauble of excess driven by rich people and subsidized with tax dollars from the pockets of people who could never afford one, because somehow those same people who hate 1%ers love the car company that caters to them using their money.

    I’ll give Elon Musk this much — he is the worlds greatest salesman. Either that or he’s Keyser Soze.

    • 0 avatar
      ToddAtlasF1

      It’s a logical progression for a sociopath to go form expecting the less fortunate to pay for their cars to expecting the less fortunate to die for their follies.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      You could say that for every car on the road, Jrob. It’s not just Teslas full of next-generation concepts, nearly every new car has SOMETHING different that could affect how it performs. I recently rented a Kia Forte with electric steering that I could honestly sense the lag between input and maneuver at certain speeds, along with other unsettling characteristics. Once you get used to them you hardly notice, but when you’re used to the different forms of mechanical steering and suddenly drive one that’s practically ‘drive by wire’, it’s noticeable.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        “I recently rented a Kia Forte with electric steering that I could honestly sense the lag between input and maneuver at certain speeds, ”

        I don’t buy it. “electric steering” on most cars is actually “electrically power assisted steering” or EPAS. The steering wheel still has a solid mechanical connection to the steering rack, so when you turn the steering wheel, the front wheels turn. The EPAS motor just helps reduce the steering effort. EPAS will not cause a delay between you turning the steering wheel and the car’s front wheels turning.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          “I don’t buy it. “electric steering” on most cars is actually “electrically power assisted steering” or EPAS.”

          I’ve got two different vehicles with electric power steering pumps; they don’t feel like the steering on the Forté did. I could actually feel the occasional kick-back from the system while sitting at idle which neither of my other electrically-boosted cars do. Since I didn’t get the opportunity to pop the hood on the car for a proper TTAC Rental Car Review due to serving as taxi cab for three women running around Las Vegas, NV, I’m commenting on it here. To be quite honest, the Forté felt strange in many ways, though drove nicely overall.

  • avatar
    jpolicke

    This makes me think the model 3 might be the best of all the Teslas. Proven battery and drive technology without all the gimmicky trouble prone “features”. I’ll reach for the door handle and pull the door closed all by myself, thank you.

  • avatar
    formula m

    ” According to Lyon, the autonomous Autopilot feature swerves the vehicle into other lanes during rainstorms, the self-parking feature doesn’t work 90 percent of the time, and the touchscreen freezes for no reason.”

    This guy is obviously that idiot that has to try his autopilot in every situation he can, no matter if it’s endangering his life or others.
    The rest of those features don’t make for a great vehicle any way.
    I find the acceleration of a vehicle this size interesting but the rest of it is a bunch of snobby gadgets

  • avatar
    nickoo

    Just keep in mind that the Model S was built by industry pros, they mostly left after development of the S was over. The model X is shaping up to be, and the forth coming model III appear to be, disasters.

    Elon and his colossal ego are going to set the EV movement back 15 years because instead of building reliable, fun, somewhat normal cars that happen to be EVs, he’s resorted to gimmicky unreliable, buggy, unusable junk. These are no longer vehicles, they are fashion statements that do more for signaling than they do for being useful vehicles.

    I am not surprised, I personally know folks who Lord Musk screwed over at PayPal. He’s a charlatan through and through and I guarantee he will sell or bail before Tesla bombs.

  • avatar
    pragmatist

    The techno luddite in me (interesting because I am a systems administrator for a multinational corporation) sees the CAN bus as a terrible, terrible idea. With individual switches and circuits, a fault is pretty much confined to a single function. Putting everything on the bus allows system noise or a bad component to produce a wide range of unpredictable failures across much of the vehicle. Diagnosis can be futile.

    Tech is not always your friend.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      How that tech is manufactured is what makes the difference. I agree that the CAN bus can be a bad idea, because it ties all the systems together. However, such systems have worked reasonably well in aircraft for over 40 years because they are designed to a higher standard and hardened to reduce the effect of internal and external ‘noise’. I’ve seen the failure of such a bus in one of my own cars and seen how ensuring the build quality can make it reliable.

      In this case, assuming that the owner’s complaints are legitimate, the true repair may be a component they haven’t even considered yet. If the techs are chasing the symptoms, it may take multiple tries before they find the cause. However, If they started at the “bus”, they might resolve the issue in one shot the way mine was finally repaired.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      CAN is way more fault-tolerant than you seem to think it is.

      • 0 avatar
        redmondjp

        Not when one single module hangs the entire bus and you can’t even diagnose it until you unplug the offending module (out of 29 total, all scattered around the vehicle) from the bus . . .

        • 0 avatar
          krhodes1

          Still better than forty-eleven billion wires running around the car, all with connections and grounds to get dirty and fail. Or the wires themselves break. CAN architecture is one of the reasons modern cars are more reliable than what has gone before (and generally easier to fix when they break). Ultimately, you can have fluky things happen anywhere with anything, but in general this was a HUGE step forward.

  • avatar

    Any electric car is fraught with trouble and the Tesla is a black hole for your money from the second you transact the deal to buy it.

    Several relevant quotes come to mind.

    Thomas Tusser: “A fool and his money are soon parted.”

    David Hannum: “There’s a sucker born every minute.”

    Carrie Snow: “Technology… is a queer thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other.”

    John Tudor: “Technology makes it possible for people to gain control over everything, except over technology.”

    David Brower: “All technology should be assumed guilty until proven innocent.”

    Except for a love affair with a 2010 Lincoln pickup, I don’t yet own a drive-by-wire car and if that pickup ever requires a major drivetrain replacement I’m taking it back to the stone ages of 2004 or so. The Mark stays around though because my 6 year affair with it has convinced me to keep it for life. I wouldn’t have bought it except I needed a powerful pickup to pull a 600lb trailer around. I NEEDED a pickup. REALLY needed a pickup. Thank God I found a pickup while having the oil changed on my old Town Car at the Lincoln dealer. Saved the day. I wouldn’t have known where to go to buy a pickup but that dealer saved me.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      Do forgive me if I don’t agree with you, WR; I personally believe that the BEV is eminently the better platform for all purposes, though it is only in its infancy at the moment. The relative simplicity of the BEV makes it the more reliable in the long run as you don’t have all those engine systems that can fail due to water in the fuel, overheating, cracked cylinder walls, blown gaskets, etc.

      Personally, I was born too soon because I really do want a BEV and find it unlikely that I’ll ever own one.

      • 0 avatar

        I just don’t know of any electric cars that are not plagued with unusual problems.

        As for the “better platform for all purposes,” lets make a run from Los Angeles to New York. I’ll drive my old Town Car and you drive a Tesla. We’ll see how long it takes you. I can do it in 40 hours. Assuming you bought the Supercharger option, I’ll be there most of a day before you arrive. If you didn’t then you have to hook to a 220v connection and charge for an hour for every 22 miles you want to drive. A full charge? 14 or 15 hours? Now, if you want to take your Tesla on a scenic tour of the US, you’re not going to run into those Supercharger stations. You best have all the time in the world on your hands.

        Then there’s battery replacement costs. $29K at present for a Model S battery.

        How long will a Tesla battery last before you have to replace it? Even Tesla can’t seem to answer that. A lot of factors to consider, they say. One thing they definitely do NOT recommend: Repeated usage of their Supercharger stations. Bad for the battery. Only do that on long trips.

        So this is definitely not the “better platform for all purposes” and I can’t imagine that it ever will be.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          >> I just don’t know of any electric cars that are not plagued with unusual problems.

          You have no actual experience with an EV. What is an unusual problem? I’ve only had windshield wiper, wiper fluid, and tire rotation. No battery degradation in 30k miles.

          >> Los Angeles to New York. I’ll drive my old Town Car and you drive a Tesla. We’ll see how long it takes you. I can do it in 40 hours.

          I do it all the time, but in less than 6 hours in a plane. Go ahead and waste your time.

          >> Now, if you want to take your Tesla on a scenic tour of the US, you’re not going to run into those Supercharger stations.

          Plenty of superchargers around the country. Plenty of people have taken long trips in Teslas. Do you base your vehicle purchases on its ability to make some idiotic 40-hour dash across the country.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          On that California to New York trip, electric vehicles have been making that run for over 80 years… admittedly with a big diesel engine to supply the power. Even then it’s not a matter of how fast you make the trip, but how smoothly.

          When speaking of just the cars, it’s more in how you drive them, not in how fast you drive. To me a 2500-3000 mile journey is not one to try and make non-stop. The average driver takes no less than three days, requiring 8-10 hours each day for food and rest. A Tesla can do almost as well as it sits because those food and rest stops would come about every four hours. In fact, the trip has been made both ways by Tesla drivers with a co-driver in just over 55 hours, or about 3.5 days…of all things going the posted speed limits over most of that route. For the average driver, that’s not too shabby.

          Electrics offer a number of advantages over ICE, though I acknowledge that unrecharged range is not one of them. Still, the Model S90 comes pretty close when you realize that driven sensibly you can get over 300 miles on a charge and ‘hypermiling’ can get you over 600 miles (it’s been done in Europe.) The biggest advantage is the instantaneous torque. Both ICE and BEV burn more energy accelerating to speed as compared to maintaining speed but the BEV uses less than the ICE due to the simple fact that the ICE has to spool up to 2000rpm or more to achieve enough torque for decent acceleration. Moreover, a V6 or smaller ICE needs about 2000 rpm to maintain speed in a truck (though you can probably get away with lower revs in a more aerodynamic sedan. An i4 still runs that 2000+ (personal experience across the board) Even a ’96 V6 Camaro could achieve 32mpg on the freeway–again, driven sensibly. But gasoline costs money. Currently it costs roughly 3x as much as electricity and when using Tesla’s Superchargers it costs infinitely more than electricity because Supercharger use is free.

          But there’s more. Railroads have proven that electrics are more efficient than straight ICEVs. Look up the history of a tug-of-war between an electric locomotive and one of the most powerful steam locomotives of the day. Ever hear of a boxcar getting torn in two before? That electric torque is ideal for pulling heavy loads. A BEV tractor-trailer truck would easily be able to handle mountain grades without being slowed as severely as the current ICE versions. The reason they’re sticking with Diesel for now is the fact that they can get 500 miles or more out of the 100 gallons they carry. But at what cost? Today it runs nearly $300 cash to fuel up for the next stretch; it wasn’t all that long ago they were spending $450… nearly $1/mile just for fuel. Railroads now boast 400 ton-miles per gallon, six times the economy of an 18-wheeler. If the weight of those big diesel engines could be replaced by an equivalent weight of batteries, the range might fall a bit, but the power and economy would be greater.

          Railroads also use something called “regenerative braking” to control the speed of the train on downgrades. Due to their lack of batteries, all that power is literally burned off through coils in the roof cooled by massive fans. Imagine how much charge you could return to the batteries, instead. And yes, railroads are experimenting with “hybrid” locomotives that use a smaller engine supplemented with batteries. I admit I’m unaware of how well that experiment is going, but I have heard of additional orders for that type of locomotive. Electric IS an advantage.

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            The supercharger is not free you have to pay up front for the ability and the last I heard that was $2000. That buys a lot of fast charges for a Leaf at the pay fast chargers.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            “The supercharger is not free you have to pay up front for the ability and the last I heard that was $2000. That buys a lot of fast charges for a Leaf at the pay fast chargers.”

            Which is easier, paying for your fuel in advance when you know the price is cheaper, or paying for it as needed when the price may be 3, 4, 5x more expensive? Electricity from the wall averages around 12¢ per kWh in the US. That takes the Tesla about three miles based on reported readings by owners. A 200-mile recharge thus costs about US$5. For comparison, a similarly-sized ICE uses about 7 gallons of gas which at current rates would run about $20 or just shy of 3x as expensive to drive not even counting scheduled maintenance. Add to this the fact that it’s not money out of your pocket on that long vacation trip or during that business trip to the next city (even with expense accounts, it’s money out of pocket first) and the economic benefits begin to be felt. We can not assume gasoline prices will remain where they’ve been for the last 18 months.

            Additionally, that Supercharger access is becoming a standard feature on all newer versions of the Tesla, meaning the $2K or so is being folded into the price of the car… at least for now. So why not take advantage when you’re on a trip? That $2K is expected to cover the life of the car and can be forwarded to the next owner if you choose to sell the vehicle before it wears out. The cost, therefore, gets balanced not only by a reduction in out-of-pocket costs but as an increase to its trade-in/resale value as well.

            Oh, those fast chargers for the Leaf, etc…? Based on what I’ve seen so far, their fees for recharge come out equivalent to the same number of miles in gasoline… not saving you one penny for using electric on the road.

          • 0 avatar
            Testacles Megalos

            At least one factor makes the IC-Electric combo worthwhile on the railroad: To the extent involved, weight of the prime mover + weight of the motors contributes to tractive effort on a wheel-roadbed combo for which that weight poses little problem.
            I looked into the idea of IC-electric a couple of decades ago regarding other large self-propelled vehicles that could also benefit from the full-torque-from-start and benefits of running the ICE at a constant maximally efficient RPM, Ag equipment. Soil compaction from weight is a real problem. I’d guess the same is probably true of a usefully powered OTR truck on current asphalt/concrete roadbeds. Of course the original Porsche was an IC-Electric hybrid but with horrible unsprung weight problems.

          • 0 avatar
            Testacles Megalos

            Also, railroads experimented with direct drive from ICEs (the original Doodlebugs for example), hydraulic drives (the Krause-Maffei for example), turbine prime movers (on the UP and where where else perhaps?) and of course IC-electric. My reading of that history was the IC-electric won out due to versatility and servicibility rather than the inherent low-speed tractive effort advantage alone. The new GenSets offer another alternative to consider; automotively one could combine selective cylinder engagement in the ICE based on generator (alternator) loading yet run at max efficiency engine speed at all times.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          “I don’t know of any electric cars that are not plagued by unusual problems.”

          What is an unusual problem in Arkansas, Whiskey River? You don’t know where the spark plugs are? You can’t find the drain hole for the motor oil? You can’t hear the engine when it fires up? The radiator never overheats?

          So unusual!

        • 0 avatar

          WhiskeyRiver: >>>As for the “better platform for all purposes,” lets make a run from Los Angeles to New York. I’ll drive my old Town Car and you drive a Tesla. We’ll see how long it takes you.

          +10

          @Vulpine
          I hope they solve the range/recharging time/cost problems for electrics so that gasoline prices don’t skyrocket. But when I take a road trip, I don’t want to have to do the type of planning one would currently have to do to take even a leisurely cross-country trip. which would be extensive, since superchargers are scarce. I like to get off the beaten track. That won’t be possible with BEVs for a number of years.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      >> Any electric car is fraught with trouble and the Tesla is a black hole for your money from the second you transact the deal to buy it.

      That’s total bullshit. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Rather than living life through google searches, I’ve been doing a hard-core heavy traffic long distance 100-mile round trip commute in an EV and haven’t had a problem. The only maintenance is tire rotation, wipers, and washer fluid. No wasting time with oil changes or having to stand around in the heat and cold pumping gas into the thing. I’ve got a near state-of-the-art battery (through connections) that even after 30k miles is capable of 100% capacity and shows 100% health via diagnostics. Friday, it made the drive in 82-degree heat and the battery was still cool. I even managed over 5.0 miles per kilowatt hour on the trip. What you’ve read about EVs in the past does not apply to the vehicle I’m driving.

      I’d like to see what a 100 mile round trip with much of it in heavy stop and go traffic around Boston does to your pretty little pickup and what it would cost you. I know from personal experience what that drive does to an ICE car. I get it, an EV isn’t for everyone. However, not every electric car is fraught with trouble and you absolutely do not know what you’re talking about. I doubt you’ve ever spent time driving one.

  • avatar

    I can’t believe how far some people will go to defend this silly car. I get it this much: It’s a nice car when everything works. Some people love them. Passionately. But then, Reliant Robins have some of the most faithful and passionate fans in the world. That does not make a Robin a great car. No doubt someone out there is calling the Robin the “better platform for all purposes.”

    There’s exactly ZERO Superchargers in Arkansas, my home state. There are no Superchargers in Memphis. There is one Supercharger in Oklahoma City. You cannot drive a Tesla from Memphis to Oklahoma City (465 miles) without losing a day. I can drive it in 6 hours in my car.

    More fanatical irrational comments about Teslas to follow I’m sure.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      You spend a lot of time attacking Tesla. Sorry that the future is so frightening for you.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      “There’s exactly ZERO Superchargers in Arkansas, my home state. There are no Superchargers in Memphis. There is one Supercharger in Oklahoma City. You cannot drive a Tesla from Memphis to Oklahoma City (465 miles) without losing a day. I can drive it in 6 hours in my car.”

      While I will agree that As Of Today, what you say is true, that may not be true and almost certainly WILL not be true by the end of this year as Arkansas is expected to see some four Supercharger locations installed, at least two specifically on the freeway between Memphis and Oklahoma City. Suddenly that 465-mile gap will be closed with even the S-70 able to cross the state without issue.

      And if you’re driving 465 miles in 6 hours, you’re pushing the speed limit pretty hard. Average speed 77.5mph and I’m betting the speed limit is only 70, as it is in most other states (admittedly not all.) You’d be tempting a ticket driving at that speed, especially since that doesn’t cover fuel stops and there aren’t all that many cars than can achieve 500 miles on a single tank… especially at that speed. Even a single stop for fuel will cost you about 15 minutes and drive your cruising speed up over 80.

    • 0 avatar

      I frequently drive from Boston to DC via Quakertown PA, where I have friends and a favorite restaurant bar that’s been going under various management since 1750. Couldn’t do it in a Tesla.

      • 0 avatar

        Ok EV fans. Let’s deal with another factoid. In the United States, much of the country’s electrical grid will exceed exceed 90% of capacity at times this summer. Some areas will be closer to 95%. If those vehicles become prevalent they can have all the Supercharger station they want but you won’t be able to use them all if the electrical grid fails. There’s going to have to be a lot of new electrical infrastructure installed before these cars can be taken seriously as a mainstream conveyance. In the current economic climate I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

        At any rate, the first paragraph of posted article starts with “Bad PR from customers annoyed by their problem-plagued Tesla Model X SUVs.” And it’s an accurate enough statement no matter which model and brand EV you want to pin it to.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          >> Ok EV fans. Let’s deal with another factoid.

          Cheap room air conditioners are probably having a bigger impact than EVs. In Massachusetts, the Solar power companies are running rampant over the rooftops of the Commonwealth. Local municipalities converting their street lighting from mercury vapor to LED is providing another reduction (my little town will save over $5,000 per year). My favored charging location in Kingston MA on the way to Cape Cod has massive windmills next to it.

          My new kitchen with three convection ovens and my massive home HVAC system suck much more power than my little EV.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        @david – I frequently drive from Boston to DC via Quakertown PA

        Why not? There’s a SuperCharger in Allenstown. Let’s see, Lexington to the Newburgh NY supercharger is 195 miles. Newburgh SuperCharger to Allenstown SuperCharger is 136 miles. From Quakertown to Newark DE Supercharger. I noticed that are some J1772 Level 2 spots in Quakertown where if one is close enough, you could top up while visiting. Personally, I’d probably hit some of the intermediate SCs for email/bathroom breaks and pick up some quick splashes of power. That would reduce charging time in Newburgh.

        Then again, the cost of the Tesla could empty your bank account to the point you could no longer afford the restaurant! In that case, I guess you are right! :^)

        I’ve been making trips to Woodstock VT from Andover MA in my 100+ mile range Leaf, so Boston to DC via Quakertown in a Tesla looks pretty easy.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        You sure about that, David? I’m thinking you would be quite surprised by the number of Supercharger locations between Boston and DC, including Pennsylvania.

    • 0 avatar
      carsofchaos

      Saying there are no superchargers in AR is like wondering why there’s no Cristal at the homeless shelter. But all kidding aside, how many Teslas are rolling around AR…..1? They’re going to build superchargers in the areas where people have Teslas, then branch out from there.

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