By on January 21, 2016

Barack Obama + Connected Vehicles

President Barack Obama ran a victory lap in Detroit because the bailout worked.

That, GM’s Maven goes beyond “The Tipping Point,” the ignition switch trial takes a turn for the weird, and more Obama … after the break!

Chevy_Volt_Obama-Picture courtesy rightchange.com

(Note: The above photo is an archived photo. You can tell because Obama doesn’t look like he’s aged a millennia in only eight years.)

Obama’s final stop at Detroit auto show includes EV tours, Ford stop

President Barack Obama visited the North American International Auto Show on Wednesday in Detroit, making his final visit to the show as a sitting U.S. president.

According to media reports, Obama visited General Motors, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and supplier ZF, before visiting Ford’s massive display. Obama’s visit to Ford was closed to reporters, according to Automotive News. Ford has opposed U.S. inclusion into the proposed Trans Pacific Partnership, which is a major, final-year agenda for the outgoing president.

During the visit, Obama touted the plan his administration put forward to save General Motors and Chrysler from the brink of failure.

“More than 1 million Americans would’ve lost their jobs at the worst possible time. Not just auto workers, but the people in communities who depend on you,” Obama said, according to Automotive News. “The teachers who teach your kids, the small business owners who know your name. Their livelihoods would’ve been at stake as well, so we decided we couldn’t let that happen.”

Obama paid particular attention to hybrids and EVs on his visit, according to reports, but more on that later.

GM Launches Personal Mobility Brand: Maven

General Motors launches Maven; that was fast

We didn’t have to wait long for GM to show us what it was doing with its trademarked Maven name: the automaker launched the car-sharing program in Ann Arbor, Michigan on Thursday.

Maven will initially consist of 21 cars, located near the University of Michigan, but GM says the program will grow to include suburban Chicago, New York City and other metropolitan areas soon. The car-sharing service will be similar to Zipcar and Enterprise.

Last year, GM announced it would invest $500 million in to ride-sharing service Lyft, and this month announced that it purchased the remnants of defunct Sidecar for $39 million.

Barack Obama + Connected Vehicles

‘There’s only one Detroit’

During President Barack Obama’s whirlwind tour through Detroit, he made a stop at the United Auto Workers-General Motors Center for Human Resources to proclaim, according to The Detroit News:

“There’s only one Detroit … and if you’re looking for the world’s best cars and the workers who make those cars, you need to be in Detroit, Michigan. That’s why I’m here.”

The comment was made after the president joked that he’d be in the market for a new car — his term ends this year and he won’t be riding in a presidential Cadillac much longer. (He’ll probably be riding in a bulletproof Suburban, like most other ex-presidents. — Aaron)

But the president’s remarks are slightly curious: Far more cars are built outside of Detroit than inside Detroit now. Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, Kia, Nissan and Subaru build actual cars in other parts of the country. Ford and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles are increasingly making more high-profit vehicles — trucks and SUVs — in Michigan, most of which aren’t cars, and kinda/sorta/maybe put the automakers back pre-Great Recession.

Of the Big Three, only General Motors makes a fair number of cars in Detroit — and even they’re bringing some of those in from China now.

It may be semantics, but it’s just an observation.

GMIgnitionAndSwitchAssembly02(1)

Ignition lawsuit takes a turn for the weird

After General Motors lawyers said an Oklahoma man forged a check to buy a house in a lawsuit against the automaker over its faulty ignitions, the man has retained a criminal defense attorney to defend himself against allegations of perjury and fraud, Bloomberg reported (via Automotive News).

Robert Scheuer said a defective ignition switch in his 2003 Saturn Ion prevented airbags from deploying when it crashed. During his lawsuit against GM, attorneys for the automaker said Scheuer forged income records to buy a house from which he was later evicted.

GM lawyers alleged the fraud undermined his credibility. Lawyers for Scheuer said the allegations distract from the automaker’s defective — and lethal — switches.

2016_nissan_leaf_10

EVs will probably be cheap and subsidized for a while

Reuters points out that President Barack Obama’s goal of 1 million electric vehicles on the road by 2015 hasn’t exactly materialized (via Automotive News):

Since then, his administration has backed billions of dollars in EV subsidies for consumers and the industry.

Yet today — with gas prices near $2 a gallon — only about 400,000 electric cars have been sold. Last year, sales fell 6 percent over the previous year, to about 115,000, despite the industry offering about 30 plug-in models, often at deep discounts.

The forecast for EVs isn’t entirely bright in the short-term: low gas prices are expected to continue and customers’ payback for EV tech will continue to be steep and long.

That’s why Obama’s administration has often proposed raising the federal credit from $7,500 to $10,000 along with other incentives to help sell electric vehicles to a consumer that doesn’t have an appetite for EVs right now. Or as Bob Lutz put it:

“Electric vehicles are going to have to be crammed in the market at way below what it costs to make them.”

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141 Comments on “TTAC News Round-up: Let’s Get Political, Political; Maven is Here; Ignition Lawsuit Changes Direction...”


  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    The President was misquoted, what he actually said was:

    “There’s only one Detroit … but before I am through all of our cities will emulate the example set here”

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      At least the water isn’t poisoned…

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I’m sure he has top men working on the problem right now, and will be rolling it out to the D as soon as possible.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          Well the Governor of Michigan had his “top men” fill the Flint water system full of delicious lead. That’s the first place to call.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Lead is good for you, just like Fukushima radiation.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The timeline for the whole Flint water issue is ridiculous. Everyone thought someone else was going to do something. And everyone did nothing.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Sounds about right. We used to have a 12×12 printout of a dollar bill with GW’s being replaced by our CEO and “United States” be replaced by our company name. We literally liked to pass the buck from group to group because, well, that’s life in a dysfunctional society.

          • 0 avatar
            thornmark

            Actually, most of the decisions were made by the opposition party.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            No. Stop it. The decision to move off of the Detroit water system and use the Flint river as an interim source ultimately rested with the EM. The Flint council voted for it, and the mayor supported it, but the state was running the city. The DEQ messed up, the water authority messed up, the EPA didn’t do poo, and the state, who has been running the city of Flint, didn’t react fast enough.

            I am not politicizing this. I don’t care who is at fault. The state was running the show and messed up. That’s the bottom line. Anything else is a partisan argument of worthlessness. Once the state DEQ and people in Lansing discovered the issue, they should have made measures to fix it immediately.

          • 0 avatar
            thornmark

            >> The decision to move off of the Detroit water system and use the Flint river as an interim source ultimately rested with the EM. <<

            The EM, Darnell Earley, was the Democrat who served as emergency manager. Earley says that the decisions to terminate the Detroit deal and rely temporarily on the Flint River “were both a part of a long-term plan that was approved by Flint’s mayor, and confirmed by a City Council vote of 7–1 in March of 2013 — a full seven months before I began my term as emergency manager”. The Mayor and Council were Dems too.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Funny the EPA is all over that Volkswagen schadenfreude after being purposely misled for some time, but lead in US citizen’s water? Ah, sh*t happens.

            EPA even has its own criminal enforcement arm as of 1982. Must too busy to stroll on by Flint and issue some arrests, put a fire under some people as it were.

            http://www.epa.gov/enforcement/criminal-enforcement

            Oh wait, look at this.

            Montgomery County Company Charged With Clean Water Act Violations.

            Matthew Brozena, 58, of Telford, PA, and his company, MAB Environmental Services, Inc., were charged by indictment with conspiracy to violate the Clean Water Act and other offenses, announced United States Attorney Zane David Memeger. The indictment also charges the defendants with knowingly violating permit conditions, tampering with required monitoring devices and methods, and false reporting. Separate criminal informations have been filed charging James Wetzel, 63, of Harrisburg, PA, James Crafton, 61, of Upper Black Eddy, PA, and Stephen Fritz, 48, of in Harleysville, PA, with related environmental violations.

            http://www.justice.gov/usao-edpa/pr/montgomery-county-company-charged-clean-water-act-violations-0

            Funny how they sprang into action there.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I don’t care about the politics of it. Darnell early was appointed by the state of Michigan. I don’t care if he’s a democrat, republican, or whoever. The SOM messed this up.

            It was fine to switch to the Flint River. What was not fine was to not treat the water properly or react once problems were found.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Is this the same Flint, MI, that went bankrupt by promising their workers way more than the city could ever realize to collect in taxes?

            Had Flint not quit the Detroit water system, none of this would have happened.

            We’ve got to give credit where credit is due. IMO, Flint itself is to blame for its own predicament. The residents chose badly.

            Then again, I don’t live there and I don’t have to drink the water. Like for many Americans, Flint water is just not an issue. And it is only remotely related to autos by six degrees of separation.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The problems Flint has faced are similar to Detroit’s woes, only magnified. There is no doubt that the city was run poorly. It was also a good idea to get off of the Detroit water system. They will save millions of dollars. It was a poor plan to not properly treat the river water and then not act when problem arose.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Fear not, Flint, Detroit et al, the federal government and the ‘crats will bail yawl out at taxpayer expense.

            And when Hilary gets elected POTUS, there will be more of the same. Much more.

            Albeit Macht Frei, and remember to pay your taxes. Flint and Detroit need them.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Neither political party actually cares about Flint. Detroit, maybe. But Flint, both political parties view that city as full of people that were left behind.

      • 0 avatar
        MrGreenMan

        Little known fact:

        The Detroit water supply was in non-compliance with the EPA and the Clean Water Act since 1977. Only in 2013 did they come to some sort of settlement. They were under federal oversight trying and failing to get the water system in order and clean for a very long time.

        I remember being amazed that office buildings in downtown Detroit had two taps – one that was run through an on-site filter and so was potable, and one that was just from whatever came from the municipal pipe unfiltered, and that was considered non-potable brown water.

        http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20130327/BLOG103/130329873/behind-the-courts-decision-to-remove-federal-oversight-of-detroits

    • 0 avatar
      thelaine

      If your city has to be taken over by the state because of your gross incompetence and corruption, you should blame yourself.

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      From what I’ve seen of Obummer, I believe he really does want as many cities to emulate Detroit as possible.

      Did he say anything about moving Buick production to China?

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    MAVEN sounds like a multi-platform game for PS4, XBOX ONE, etc.

    I feel like GMs investment in LYFT should be headlined as “GM Invests $500 Million in Pink Mustache Rides”

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I’m still shocked jitney cabs are a billion dollar business.

      • 0 avatar
        Pig_Iron

        I’m shocked that anyone else knows what jitney means besides me.
        ≡:-O

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Evidently the word has several meanings, this one being my favorite:

          “an archaic name for a nickel (United States coin)”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitney

        • 0 avatar
          JMII

          We got jitneys down here in Miami! Dangerous things… because they stop where-ever they darn well please. I’ve seen people flag them down and come running across 6 lanes of traffic to jump in for a ride.

          And I’m still trying to figure out why GM had to buy Sidecar just to start MAVEN. Did they not understand how this works? Do they realize you can hire someone (like any 12 year old I bet) to write an smartphone app?

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Maven sounds like a service where one can remotely summon a prostitute from their smart phone.

      They should just call it “Raven,” or “Cravin’ .”

      Leave it to GM to even name things strangely (we know they can rarely design/build things properly)

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        “They should just call it “Raven,” or “Cravin’ .””

        You just made me the next El Chapo. Hey esé, check out my heroin distribution service by phone: “Cravin”

    • 0 avatar
      Astigmatism

      MAVEN sounds like an evil organization bent on world domination from a cheesy superhero show on the CW.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        “…on the CW Network…”

        It’s that detail that you included that defines you as imaginative & talented, and that lesser writers/thinkers would not have included.

        Isn’t the CW Network the one with the frog with a cane as a symbol/masdot, and that shows 80s reruns, and new, really cheesy dramas?

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          the WB network used Michigan J. Frog, but WB was scuttled when CW was formed. no idea if they kept the mascot; I rarely watch local channels.

        • 0 avatar
          Drzhivago138

          Partially correct. The frog is Michigan J. Frog, one of the mascots of Warner Brothers, and was used when the channel was called The WB.

          CW was created from the merger of The WB and…UPN, I think? I can’t think of any ’80s reruns they show, but they do have The Flash (DC superhero), which apparently is really good.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Somewhere, you just launched a TV show.

        MAVEN, Mondays at 8:30.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Wow.

        I had no idea that that frog was “Michigan J. Frog,” and I live in metro Detroit.

        Long live TTAC.

        28CL – The show (“Maven,” “Raven,” or Cravin’ “) could feature a global criminal organization and/or prostitution/human trafficking organization, filmed in noir tone, that shows underworld figures, law enforcement, and remotely summoned prostitutes driving & driving in Chinese, Mexican & Thailand assembled (maybe Myanmar, too) GM vehicles, as filmed in Ann Arbor, Highland Park, Rochester, Hamtramk & Inkster.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Maven “A maven (also mavin) is a trusted expert in a particular field, who seeks to pass knowledge on to others. The word maven comes from Hebrew, meaning “one who understands”, based on an accumulation of knowledge”

        A trusted expert in a particular field.

        Perhaps GM picked the name for that very same reason……

        Cue DeadWeight…………..

        A little high octane for the fire :)

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    “(He’ll probably be riding in a bulletproof Suburban, like most other ex-presidents. — Aaron)”

    Actually, Nixon had a K-car limo toward the end of his life.

    http://forum.chryslerkcar.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=5156

    I think a Chinese made Verano limousine or new Buick Envision would suit the current President very well.

  • avatar
    S2k Chris

    Depends on where he’s going. If the Big O comes back here to Chicago, he needs a Jeep Grand Cherokee to fit in. If he’s moving to Hawaii, it’s gotta be a Tacoma with lots of Sex Wax stickers on the back window and a ladder rack for his long boards.

    • 0 avatar
      Astigmatism

      If he moves to Hawaii and buys a Tacoma, I’m gonna quit my job, move to Hawaii and become his intern.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      He won’t be going to Chicago to live. IMO, it will be Hawaii. But the presidential library will be at Northwestern, not the Southside.

      • 0 avatar
        darkwing

        The smart money, or so I hear, is on the site of the old Michael Reese Hospital, on the south side, but right on Lake Shore Drive and across from Soldier Field.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          My friends at the Hines VA Complex told me that many acres slated to be demolished are supposed to be purchased by Northwestern U, but no one knows what fer.

          My guess would be that the first sizable donation of land and corresponding fund-raising will be the place where it will be located.

          Since there isn’t enough money in the district from where he came, my guess would be much of it will be from private donations, outside the district. Look for a “Fund Me” Social Media Campaign.

          I have been on Lake Shore Drive and know where Soldier Field is, and it would take a lot of real money to acquire the necessary property in that area. That’s prime stuff.

          But who knows? Don Peebles is buying up half of Detroit. Maybe the UAW will pitch in and the library will be built adjacent to the RenCen.

          Considering what O has done for Detroit and the UAW, it would seem only right for them to built him a library there.

          I won’t be visiting.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Isn’t it typical for the president to build his library in the place of his birth? I would think Kenya would appreciate more books.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. VoGo is faster with the jokes than I am!

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Oh, and Don Peebles isn’t doing $hit in Detroit. He doesn’t have enough money to hang with the big dog billionaires buying property in the city. Illitch staked our his swaths of land years ago, and Gilbert works way faster than Peebles could ever hope.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            “Oh, and Don Peebles isn’t doing $hit in Detroit.”

            Hmmmm. That’s news. I saw him on one of the financial channels and they were discussing the rebuilding of Detroit. He was supposed to be a part of the rebuilding.

            Thanks for setting me straight.

            (The hazards of having a 32″ TV on all day next to the PC screen. Can’t always believe what you see on TV.)

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            He has developments here, but nothing that is the size or scope of what big players are doing downtown. He has zero Detroit developments promoted on his website. He was doing more stuff here in the mid-00s.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @Vogo

            People can read in Kenya? *rimshot*

            Actually the literacy rate there is 87.4%

            http://www.indexmundi.com/kenya/literacy.html

  • avatar
    Corollaman

    Flint water contaminated, Detroit teachers walk out due to deplorable conditions in public schools and this guy is tooting the horn about the “Detroit” auto industry, even most everything is made elsewhere. BTW we’re still blowing money on “rebuilding” Iraq and Afghanistan while our inner city structures are collapsing.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      I wondered about that too. Here’s the guy that got the Nobel Peace Prize at the beginning of his term, and now, seven years later, we are involved in more wars than when he took office.

      OW! (Obama’s War) will last a whole lot longer and will kill more innocent civilians than Shrub’s Wars ever did, combined.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Get your facts right, HDC!

        When Obama took office, we had 180,000+ troops in Iran and Afghanistan. Today, there are less than 10,000, including Syria.

        Obama promised to exit both those wars, and has succeeded.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          “When Obama took office, we had 180,000+ troops in Iran and Afghanistan”

          The President has not exited Afghanistan. Moreover when the President took office Libya was not a failed state, Egypt was still stable, Syria was still stable, Russia had not reasserted itself, there wasn’t an ISIS, and Europe had not suffered an invasion of so called “refugees” which are anything but. If one wants to highlight alleged successes of the Obama administration, one should probably veer away from foreign policy.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Slow down, 28CL
            You know a lot about cars, but foreign policy is a little more nuanced.

            Libya pre-Obama: ruled by a crazy dictator who directly supported terrorism, including the Lockerbie bombing. Today, Libya is shipping a ton of oil, contributing to the low prices we have today. A win for US.

            Egypt: was never really stable, but the dictator in power was just more brutal in suppressing dissent.

            Syria: same story. Not sure how a change in the US White House made a difference here, or in the rest of the Arab Spring for that matter. You can’t hold back democracy forever in the age of the internet, mobile phones, etc.

            Russia: pre-Obama ruled by a whack job. Today: ruled by the same whack job, except now his economy is in shambles so he needs meaningless saber rattles to stay in power.

            Ukraine: pre-Obama was 100% in Russia’s orbit. Today, 80% is pro-West.

            ISIS: these creeps have been around for a long time under various guises, but were strengthened by the wars in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan.

            You forgot to mention:
            1. Peace with Iran, no longer a nuclear threat
            2. Relations with Cuba
            3. how US relations and prestige have been restored to levels not seen since 2000
            4. zero repeats of major terrorist attacks like 9/11

            I stand with our president and his foreign policy record.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Respectfully, I know more about foreign policy than you.

            Egypt: Previously stable since Sadat was assassinated in 1981 and kept Carter era peace accords with Israel. Administration supported overthrow and subsequent deposing of Egyptian President (Mubarak) and replacement vice president (Suleiman) in later favor of installing a terrorist organization, the Muslim Brotherhood, and as president Mohamed Morsi. Morsi was then overthrown by the Egyptian military who received $1.3 billion annually prior to the “uprising” from the Pentagon in defense aid. This is done to keep the military firmly in control behind the scenes. After SCAF assumed control again in the Morsi coup, Gen al-Sisi was elected president in 2014. The Mother Jones piece explains: “Egypt has undergone a tumultuous journey—from autocracy to democracy to a regurgitated form of military rule and repression”.

            Reading between the lines the Obama Administration appears to have encouraged the Mubarak coup and then failed to back him and his initial successor (Suleiman) in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood. This irked the more conservative elements of Egyptian society, and probably threatened them even more when the Muslim Brotherhood not only unexpectedly reaffirmed the Camp David Accords (an affirmation which would cement their party power in the region by playing nice with Israel). The military acted quickly and arrested Morsi, and installed a new Mubarak using Pentagon aid and probably with the Pentagon’s permission. If we look at Forbes, the most recent $1.5 billion in military aid payment slated for Egypt was being stalled by the State Department for technical reasons. The State Department is controlled by the Administration while the aid comes out of the Pentagon’s budget from Congress. The deep game here appears to be the Administration vs the Pentagon/Alphabet Agencies and Egyptian proxies, and the Administration lost.

            “Working with the interior ministry, which controls the national police force, paramilitary units, and the civilian intelligence agencies, SCAF (headed by General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, doubling as the defense minister) would later orchestrate the protest movement against popularly elected President Muhammad Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood. That campaign reached its crescendo on June 30, 2013. Three days later, SCAF toppled Morsi and has held him in prison ever since.”

            “The Obama Administration announced on March 31 that it was reinstating $1.5 billion in military aid to the al-Sisi regime in Egypt. But the State Department has failed to review the aid.

            Aid to Egypt is a no-brainer, right? With the government takeover by the military under Abdel Fattah al-Sisi in July 2013, Egypt is again our ideological ally. And, with militants on the warpath in Yemen, Libya and Sinai, we need a strong Egyptian military, right?

            But there is a big unanswered question: how, and what for, and just how wisely, will the United States provide the $1.5 billion annually? Little-noticed March reports by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) and Congressional Research Service (CRS) shed a disconcerting light on how the State Department gives security aid to Egypt.

            First, elsewhere, the State Department has a policy of evaluating large projects, or at least tries to have such a policy. And, State’s Bureau of Political-Military Affairs, which manages security aid, identified Egyptian military aid two years ago as needing evaluation. To say that Egyptian aid needs evaluation is an understatement. Egypt is the second largest recipient of military aid. In fact, Egypt receives about 20 percent of all U.S. funding provided to foreign countries through the Foreign Military Funding program.

            So, having belatedly noticed this two years ago, did State finish an evaluation of Egypt, or even start one? No. State depends upon contractors to do the evaluating. It has a standing contract with a bunch of contractors to do it (for contracting aficionados, the type is multiple award task order). State formally asked the contractors on that contract to bid on the task order of evaluating the Egyptian military aid. But, not a single one offered any bid at all to take on the project.

            So it has not been done or even started. What got in the way? GAO notes “neither State nor DOD has established performance metrics, nor has either agency consistently collected performance data on the FMF program.” No metrics and no data?”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Suleiman
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Morsi
            http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/how-egypts-generals-sidelined-washington
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2015/04/07/us-military-aid-for-al-sisi-in-egypt-state-dept-fails-to-review/#2715e4857a0b1ba8dbb86c7f

            I started to type out a retort to Libya but I have to prepare for a class at 6. Essentially Gadaffi was playing ball and the European powers turned on him for his plans to introduce a gold dinar as well as the desire to steal his oil and possibly to allow for the flood of African invaders he was holding back to travel across the Med and terrorize the culture of Europe, but the last bit is a possibly I’m not sure how that benefits long term US or EU strategic policies.

            Syria is too complicated for me to extrapolate right now (plus its still going on). Key points: Black Seas Fleet, Soviet naval bases at Tartus and Sevastopol, Iran-Iraq-Syria nat gas pipeline.

            Cuba I haven’t thought through yet, I’m not sure what’s going on there. I saw on some official website that Fidel’s erroneous death was posted as 2006, or was it just a glitch in the matrix? If Fidel really already is dead, his brother doesn’t have much time himself. In the interests of stability it would be wise for their government to desire greater relations with the US, what the Administration gets out of it remains to be seen in my eyes (unless its the typical where US multinationals will start buying up all the assets again like in 1959).

            Oh and here’s some bonus commentary I recycled from some earlier searching:

            Fact: Why is long retired Secy of State Kissinger still giving orders to the National Security Council as recently as 2009?

            “As the most recent National Security Advisor of the United States, I take my daily orders from Dr. Kissinger, filtered down through Generaal Brent Scowcroft and Sandy Berger, who is also here. We have a chain of command in the National Security Council that exists today.”

            http://www.cfr.org/world/remarks-national-security-adviser-jones-45th-munich-conference-security-policy/p18515

            Fact: Why did the President really meet with Mikhail Gorbachev shortly after his inauguration in 2009?

            http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/03/23/us-russia-usa-gorbachev-idUSTRE52M2RG20090323

            Finally some conjecture: why has every President since Kennedy been either a fool, criminal, or both?

            Things are never as clear as they seem, reality is very murky.

            https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/04/hillary-clintons-explorer-van-scooby/#comment-5494833

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            28-Cars-Later, as I mentioned before, you are extremely well-read!

            But I don’t understand why you take the time to explain it all to the people who do not want to believe your comment?

            You can lead a horse to water but you can’t force that horse to drink it.

            Ditto, some people who are not as well-read as you are, will never grasp the education that you give them.

            The only way they will understand is to become as well-read as you are. And that ain’t never gonna happen.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Finally some conjecture: why has every President since Kennedy been either a fool, criminal, or both?”

            SH!T………

            “CombOver In Chief” Donald Trump

            GASP!

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Lou_BC, highly unlikely! Hillary will be the next POTUS.

            O will pardon her for her crimes like Ford did for Nixon, and all the women in America will vote to see her as the first woman-president during their lifetimes.

            It’s like it was with O. People voted to see the first negro president during their lifetime to get America over the slavery-stigma of the 19th century.

            I believe Martin O’Malley to be the best candidate for the job, but he doesn’t stand a snowball’s change in hell to get the nomination nor win the election.

            No one on the Republican side is electable. No one else can garner enough votes or sway enough Independents to make the winning difference.

          • 0 avatar
            Xeranar

            Whoa there armchair Jane’s readers….lets take this back a step:

            1.) Libya was run by a dictator that was failed to be stopped by Reagan that the US came to an uneasy agreement with. When rebels were clearly at the tipping point of overthrowing him (or ending up in a vicious civil war) the US stepped in and aided with air support. Libya was destabilized by nearly 40 years of military strongman authority that wasn’t our fault.

            That’s like saying the last person who touched a broken vase that’s been held together by super glue is at fault for breaking it.

            2.) Egypt wasn’t any more stable than Syria or Libya, it had a US-Backed dictator in charge. All the US did again was support a democratic change and when Islamists won the Eqyptian military came in and changed power. Again, this isn’t a Democrat preference but an international relations issue due to the nature of our military presence and CIA-based choices.

            3.) You think Bush looking into Putin’s eyes made a difference? It’s called time and power, during Bush’s reign Putin was merely inserting and asserting power, during Obama’s the recession combined with high oil prices gave Russia the leverage it needed to make it’s move. If McCain had won Russia would still have done what it was planning on doing. Nobody is going to get into a nuclear arms battle over Crimea.

            4.) ISIS/IL is a particular and direct result of the Iraq War. Every military scholar agrees with this. The roots of this group stem directly from Bush’s policies in toppling Saddam and destabilizing the entire sector.

            WOO! We got ourselves a fascist bingo. I kind of see now where the Trump-mentality comes from, it’s that urge in the back of your head to completely distrust those who don’t look or act like you. That nagging suspicion that nobody who isn’t ‘your people’ can really be trusted.

            Foreign Policy in the 21st century is always going to be more complicated as the US is an aging superpower that spends too much on military action, has consistently backed ‘stability’ (read: Strongman dictators) over democracy in order to maintain free market channels for American Conglomerates to reap massive profits. The shift away from that model is going to create hiccups and outright issues as most people who don’t understand or grew up in a democracy have no idea HOW to even begin to form one. Nevermind the massive distrust that comes from such a large superpower getting involved that creates a level of ‘shadow government’ issues.

            Though it appears that the ‘China Century’ is ending up little more than the China decade and may not even be that. It’s going to be interesting to see how an autocratic society resolves to deal with the rest of the world when their pool of cheap labor has dried up and their biggest consumers have gotten wise to their ‘drug addiction’ style trading mentality.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Xeranar – “I kind of see now where the Trump-mentality comes from, it’s that urge in the back of your head to completely distrust those who don’t look or act like you. That nagging suspicion that nobody who isn’t ‘your people’ can really be trusted.”

            Agreed. it is a primal instinct hardwired into our brains to distrust any unfamiliar person.

            Trump is playing up all of the primal fear points in people to effectively move him to the front of the Republican Pack. Those same primal points tend to be more of a focus on the political right. IIRC the right tends to touch 5-6 primal survival reflexes and the political left tends to hit maybe 3-4.

            Electorally that strategy failed miserably in Canada. The Right tried divisive politics which did effectively cement support from its traditional base but completely alienated everyone else. Unlike Canada the USA does not have two left of centre parties to divide the vote and let the right win.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          I have many facts right. We’re in deeper now, with fewer boots on the ground, for more money. We have to buy bomb casings from Germany and others just to meet the mission requirements.

          Oh, we exited both wars alright. But not for long. We now have to fight two group of Muslim terrorists and the theatre has been expanded to Africa, Syria, as well as Iraq and Afghanistan.

          As long as Muslims kill Muslims, no problem for me. Who cares? But when they bring it to America, then it is time for regular, every day Americans to worry. I bet those people in San Berdoo had no idea they were going to die that day.

          Even Ashton Carter has painted a bleak picture. And Jeh Johnson as well.

          Way to go!

          Lucky for me, all of mine are out of the military. Let someone else do the worrying and the dying.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Since you are so well versed in fact, HDC, please share the facts behind your claim that “we’re in deeper now.. for more money”

            Because in fact, the US deficits have been falling for 6 years now, as has spend on foreign war.

            If you want to blame Obama for San Bernadino, why not then blame W for 9/11?

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Hey, believe whatever you want to believe. If you’re doing so well in the New America, GOOD FOR YOU.

            I travel a great deal these days and I come away with the picture that there are lot more people hurting and fewer people working than there were prior to 2009.

            Just the sheer number of ex-pat Americans I have met in foreign countries has blown my mind.

            Why are they there? They told me that they get more for their money with less grief there. Canada, Mexico and Israel are the direct beneficiaries of all those USD flowing in.

            Believe what you want. If things are going so well for you, capitalize on it. You’ll need it when the curtain comes down.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            HDC,
            Ex-pats living abroad are seeing improved living conditions because the US Dollar is very strong now. If they collect pensions or social security in USD, it buys a lot more in local currency.

            As far as people hurting, you may be on to something. While the unemployment rate is 5%, there are a lot of people who are excluded from that rosy number, because they aren’t even looking for work.

            Why? In some cases its because Americans have aged, and many baby boomers don’t want to work anymore. Or can’t. In other cases, there are parents who leave the dual earner life for a slower, more frugal lifestyle to spend more time with their kids.

            But there are many more people not included in the economy because they have given up hope. Insufficient skills, lousy work ethic, or maybe they just don’t think $12/hour is worth it. If the next president can motivate and educate these people, he or she will make a real difference in America, in a way no one has since Reagan.

            I remain optimistic, if occasionally deluded.

          • 0 avatar
            darkwing

            Of course, after “the curtain comes down” or whatever, you’ll be first in line demanding my taxes be hiked to pay for your jet-setting retirement.

            Nope.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Younger Americans get shafted because politicians take care of those who finance their campaigns and actually vote.

            If you don’t like so much of your paycheck subsidizing retirement for the wealthy, then vote!

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Most of the people I met in Mexico over the past Holidays were in their late forties to middle fifties. They made their money on their own. Not handouts. Not welfare.

            Many of them were doctors (MDs), two were lawyers, and others had made their fortune in non-disclosed ways. I didn’t ask. They didn’t tell.

            In fact, I had a bug bite on my leg that got infected and one of the MDs looked at it and who then GAVE me a little sealed bottle with 40 Kaflex antibiotic pills in it (for free). Imagine what they would have charged Medicare and TriCare for that!

            All of the people I met in Ensenada were younger than social security/Medicare age. Certainly younger than my brothers and I.

            My sister and her American-born Jewish husband who moved to Israel made their money in NYC real estate and while he is 76, she is 60.

            My other sister who moved to Vancouver, BC, with her Canadian husband is 61 and he is 59.

            She made her money from Seattle/Kent Desmoines/Poulsbo/Olalla real estate and he makes his money from parking garages in Vancouver.

            Your optimistic attitude is a great asset and you should continue to be optimistic in all your ventures.

            There are a lot of people who believe the way you do, and all that is fine as long as they have a job and can pay their bills.

            It only becomes problematic when they have no job and no MCI (money coming in) and stand to lose everything they have. It has happened. Whooya gonna call? Obama?

            As for people voluntarily choosing not to work? There’s a lot of that too. But that does not help America or the nation’s coffers.

            But if a person is really in need and wants to work, they’ll find a way if even to go into business for themselves.

            The guys taking care of our rental properties all chose to be self-employed.

            Granted, they’re illegal alien Mexicans, Hondurans and Guatemalans, but what the hell? I need to get things done. They’re willing to do them for me. I pay what they ask.

            Like I said, if things are working out for you, that’s great. I always had to go my own way and never qualified for any handouts or bailouts, and God knows, there were times when I was broke.

            But that’s where the guns come in. You can store a lot of money in guns and ammo. They bailed me out plenty of times. And are doing the same for others.

            But that is a totally different topic, not fit for the ttac car genre.

            darkwing, my socsec and military retirement income is insignificant. I quit paying into soc sec after I retired from the military in 1985.

            We live off other money, like real estate rental income, private gun and ammo sales, and the like.

            Your taxes can be used for the welfare state. I don’t need them.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            highdesertcat “As long as Muslims kill Muslims, no problem for me. Who cares?”

            WTF?

            People killing people is never a good thing.

            BTW – in the USA last year there were 364 mass shootings.

            Only one was “Muslim” and Farook was a “natural born” American. His wife was Pakistani. The guy’s brother serves in the USA military.

            Here is an interesting tidbit:

            “As Islamophobic attacks spike in the aftermath of the deadly Paris attacks, statistics shows of all attacks on US soil two-thirds of deaths have been caused by “right-wing” attackers.”

            So…….as long as Americans are killing Americans…… no problem for you?

            So……. as long as Christian Americans kill other Christian Americans…… no problem for you?

            You sound just like Donald Trump!

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Lou_BC, I would never vote for Trump, I have enormous respect for what he has accomplished, accumulated and built, but I do not think he would be good for America.

            Trump is not a politician and would not take the loss of face that Obama has had to endure from his peers, like Putin.

            In fact, as an Independent, the only one I would vote for this time is Martin O’Malley. But he won’t get the nod.

            And as far as Christians killing Christians, did you forget the IRA and RAF in Germany?

            Now it is Muslims killing Muslims in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, Indonesia, etc. No different. I still don’t care.

            I would like to know how many of the people in San Berdoo were anti-gun and how many were pro-gun. This could have been stopped by gun-toting right-wingers after the first round was fired. You cannot shoot as fast with a semi as a full-auto.

            The insecurity and fear brought by the Muslim Terrorists in America has been great for the gun business. Maybe now more people will start to look out for themselves first.

            But yeah, I don’t care who kills who some other place, as long as it is not near me.

            And no, I don’t think Trump will be the next POTUS. Not enough people will show up at the voting booth to make that happen.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Don’t bother, Lou,
            He doesn’t respond to facts or debate in a traditional way. He just makes things up and rambles on and on about nonsense. Much likie Trump, actually.

            By the end of each diatribe, you aren’t sure whether the it’s the desert that is high, or the cat.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            VoGo – agreed. RideHeight covers it further down the thread.

            “This thread smells like old people.”

            highdesertcat

            You mean like the stale urine smell of a nursing home?

            RideHeight

            No, that freaky mustiness that emanates from scalps and clothing on even some active old people. I think we begin rotting long before clinical death.

          • 0 avatar
            Xeranar

            Lou & VoGo – I learned a while ago that HDC is the guy who works at old time car dealerships or the random old guy in a college class who’s there to ‘keep busy’ who was already borderline fascist 40 years ago when he was young but is now decidedly beyond that. He’s not an idiot, in fact I’m sure HDC is smart if not brilliant for finding his way in this world without a conscience of any kind. But that’s kind of his downfall as well, he pretends his callousness is rationale and logic.

            I see it pretty often in some of my aggressively right-wing students who assume that it’s all just ‘killer instinct’ that makes them great…..till somebody bigger and badder comes along and knocks them on their ass hard enough to make it count. The problem with guys like HDC was nobody showed up at the right time to teach them that lesson so they got old and fat and think that’s how the world really works because they got away with it.

          • 0 avatar
            RideHeight

            Nobody gets out of here untwisted. Some are just more self-aware than others.

  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    “During the visit, Obama touted the plan his administration put forward to save General Motors and Chrysler from the brink of failure.”

    Wait, I thought George W. Bush bailed out GM. At least that’s what those of us on the right are told when we are critical of the bailout.
    .
    .

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      I thought the same thing. If the bailout hadn’t worked, it would have been GWB’s fault.

      Seriously, though, all presidents take credit for what’s working.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Success has many fathers. Failure is an orphan.

      Hey, if this is what the majority in America voted for, let them pay for it too. I’ll spend what little I have elsewhere where it is appreciated because people who buy GM deserve everything they get, even if it kills them.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Bush put up money as a stopgap, knowing he only had a few months left in office and no constituency or real framework to actually accomplish anything. Obama actually had a plan to fix GM and Chrysler and got it done.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Obama had a plan!?

          Did you read Steve Rattner’s book? There was no plan. It was touchy-freely as they went. READ THE BOOK!

          Where do you draw your conclusions from?

          It was payback to keep the UAW working that was the motivation behind the bailouts.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            $45.4Billion.

            It’s the market value of GM today. THAT’s where I draw my conclusions, because I judge based on actual results, not opinions.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            M1 Money Stock soared from $1,404.0B in Aug-08 to $3,035.7B in Oct-15.

            The last time such a doubling occurred was between 1980 and 1988.

            https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M1SL

            GM’s market cap around 2007 November 12 was $19.21B

            “By the end of Wednesday trading, which saw GM’s stock price plunge 6% to $33.95, the market valued the world’s biggest automaker at just $19.21 billion.”

            http://www.parapundit.com/archives/004783.html

            $19.21B * 2 (for doubling M1) = $38.34B in 2015 dollars. The “recovered” GM is only worth about $7B more than it was in circa 2007 dollars ($1,374B M1 in Nov-07).

            Quite a rabbit to pull out of a hat.

          • 0 avatar
            darkwing

            I bought a pair of green pants in 2009, too. I think they were actually what saved GM — butterfly effect, etc.

            You disagree? $45.4 billion. Fact.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Darkwing,
            Congrats on the green pants. After 9/11, Bush told America that shopping was their patriotic duty, and so many people bought in.

            I think that GM’s current market value is a little more attributable to the fact that the US Government bailed them out 6 years ago. GM would have dissolved otherwise.

            But if you want to take credit because you bought green pants, that’s cool.

          • 0 avatar
            darkwing

            You have your articles of faith, and I have mine, apparently. As long as you refuse to move beyond simple correlation, I have 45.4 billion reasons our arguments are equally valid.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          GM wasn’t really “fixed” it was essentially issued more money by the banker so it could keep its top hat on the board and keep passing go. GM was not fundamentally restructured from the ground up.

          I will give some credit to the Chrysler deal which on the face of it, seemed doomed to failure. However the success of Daimler and Cerberus era product paid off very well for Fiat even while the products it initially introduced (Dart, 500) have at best not met expectations and at worst failed miserably. The first sign of some positive light from non-DC products has been the hybrid van just introduced, IMO. Time will tell on the FCA story.

    • 0 avatar
      ect

      It’s a mixed bag, actually. The Bush administration initiated the TARP program, under which GM got $13.4 billion in short-term loans at the end of 2008.

      The restructuring of GM through bankruptcy was done after President Obama took office. As part of it, GM got $6 billion of working capital financing in April and May, 2009, and filed for bankruptcy in June – at which point, the Feds extended $30.9 billion of DIP financing.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        Shrub was severely criticized by many on both sides of the political aisle for even going the TARP route. Many economists believed we should have let failed companies stay dead, instead of selectively resurrecting some while letting others die.

        In essence, those economists were right, because to this day we are still suffering the repercussions of “too big to fail”.

        We have only delayed the inevitable, or maybe softened the fall a bit, but the world economy is not doing so well today as a delayed result of ill-advised financial bailouts seven years ago.

        Tell the people laid-off from Wal-Mart about the GM bailouts. Ask them how it helped them.

        But there is always welfare, money for nuttin’ and foodstamps for free! Taxpayers, en garde! Paaaaay up!

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          “Tell the people laid-off from Wal-Mart about the GM bailouts. Ask them how it helped them.”

          it probably kept them employed for at least several more years.

          too many people have this simplistic view that letting GM and Chrysler fold would have “corrected itself” after a short time. No effing way. First off, that’s 350-400,000 people out of work in one blow. GM going bust would have killed Delphi (150,000 lost jobs,) Chrysler folding would have crippled Visteon (20,000 jobs) crippled or killed Lear (100,000+ jobs) and seriously put a dent in the automotive businesses of Johnson Controls and Faurecia (among dozens of others.) Struggling/failing suppliers would have pushed Ford into bankruptcy, and idled the transplants’ factories for an extended period of time. Honda and Toyota can’t build cars if suppliers aren’t shipping parts. So you’d be looking at close to a million jobs lost or laid off in a short period of time. That would have been absolutely catastrophic for this country. Those people wouldn’ t be buying much from Wal-Mart or anywhere else. and then of course you have the phenomenon of when the economy gets worse, crime does too as people who have little else to lose become desperate.

          this LOLbertarian notion that 1) those people could have found jobs elsewhere, and 2) the transplants would have quickly taken over Detroit’s marketshare (with what capacity?) is juvenile and simplistic. I really hate how people will say things like “just get another job” like it’s as simple as going down to the Job Store and picking a new one off of the shelf.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “I really hate how people will say things like “just get another job” like it’s as simple as going down to the Job Store and picking a new one off of the shelf.”

            Incidentally, the Jerk Store called, and they’re running out of you!

            I kid, I kid.

            “LOLbertarian”

            Really? So which statist are you, the Bolshevik, the Menshevik, or the Fascist?

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “Really? So which statist are you, the Bolshevik, the Menshevik, or the Fascist?”

            if there’s another thing I hate, it’s this 2000s American notion that one has to fit within a rigidly-defined political belief system. “Yer either with us or against us.”

            bull.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Do you even know what a Libertatian is then? Cuz that’s what your describing.

            Libertarianism (Latin: liber, “free”) is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association, and the primacy of individual judgment.[1][2]

            Libertarians generally share a skepticism of authority; however, they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing political and economic systems. Various schools of libertarian thought offer a range of views regarding the legitimate functions of state and private power, often calling to restrict or even to wholly dissolve coercive social institutions. Rather than embodying a singular, rigid systematic theory or ideology, libertarianism has been applied as an umbrella term to a wide range of sometimes discordant political ideas through modern history.

            Some libertarians advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights,[3] such as in land, infrastructure, and natural resources. Others, notably libertarian socialists,[4] seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production in favor of their common or cooperative ownership and management.[5][6] An additional line of division is between minarchists and anarchists. While minarchists think that a minimal centralized government is necessary, anarchists propose to completely eliminate the state.[7][8]

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “Do you even know what a Libertatian is then? Cuz that’s what your describing.”

            as with any mindset, there are the “little l” libertarians, and the “Capital L” Libertarians. it’s the latter I scoff at.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      I’m a true independent free of any Republican-Democrat bullish!t, so let me handle this.

      Bush II initiated the auto industry bailout based on advisors’ opinions, and Obama continued that policy, as the resultant collapse of manufacturers & suppliers, along with millions of jobs that went along with those entities, would have been far less preferable short-term, intermediate-term, and most likely, long-term.

      Everyone wants to make this a political issue when it’s purely a pragmatic one, with pragmatic dynamics, that defy Republican-Democrat simpleton ideology.

      What will the long-term ramifications of those decisions be?

      We probably won’t know for another 12 to 20 years (British Leyland? Toyota? ???).

      Realpolitik and pragmatic economics dictated that what both Bush II and Obama did was the most logical path to take, even if it was akin to making sausage, and no one had a crystal ball to predict the future at the that time.

      There’s political ideology & quarterbacking (and revisionism), and then there’s real world consequences.

      There are no pure free-market economies in the world. Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Volkswagen, Daimler, General Motors, Ford, Mitsubishi, Pugeot, Renault, etc., etc., were all either created or propped up by planned or semi-planned economic dynamics, whether their respective host nations acknowledge this or not.

      “Everyone has a plan (or philosophy) until you get punched in the face.”

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        The best laid plans go to sh!t after the first shot is fired. I’m an Independent as well, but I can still distinguish bullsh!t from shinola.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          highdesertcat – your comments would tend to indicate that you are far from “independant” and on the latter, that is a rather dubious comment as well.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Lou_BC, I started life as a Democrat, raised in a union household.

            I became a Republican for my twenty years in the US Air Force, after I joined when I could vote.

            Been a registered as an Independent (in my state it is actually “Not Affiliated with any Political Party”) since I retired from the military in 1985.

            I can see good and bad in both sides of the American political spectrum. But what matters most to me is, “Which candidate can do the MOST for ME.”

            Sometimes that can vary from party to party, election to election, and sometimes neither party has anything to offer me. Last time I voted for Gary Johnson, the former Governor of NM who ran as a third-party candidate.

            I’m also a Roman Catholic, a believer, yet I have financed an abortion for my wife’s niece. And I’d do it again even though some would label me as a baby killer. The alternative was not acceptable to me.

            Lots of things about me you don’t know and could be very surprised by.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            highdesertcat – so in summation, you don’t actually hold any beliefs or follow a moral compass other that what ever works best for you.
            Case in point:

            “I’m also a Roman Catholic, a believer, yet I have financed an abortion for my wife’s niece. And I’d do it again even though some would label me as a baby killer. The alternative was not acceptable to me.”

            The father must of been Black or Hispanic or Muslim……. or insert marginalized person here____________!

            @VoGo – once again, I should of followed your advice!

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            Can I ask what your opinion is on Laudato si’? Or the Catechism?

            “2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.
            The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae, by the very commission of the offense, and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.”

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Lou_BC, “… what ever works best for you.”

            That sums it up, exactly.

            Hey, no one outside me and mine ever worried about me, so I don’t worry about anyone other than me and mine.

            And I found a very large number of like-minded people along the way. Continue to meet them where ever I go. Even in Ensenada, Mexico.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @highdesertcat –

            “That sums it up, exactly.

            Hey, no one outside me and mine ever worried about me, so I don’t worry about anyone other than me and mine.”

            You said you are a Christian, this comment says you are not.

            The irony of the Middle East and the continuous strife between Christians, Jews, and Muslims is this…..

            All three are descendants of Abrahamic Monotheism.
            Abraham believed in one God. His God happens to be the God of the Jews. Christ was a Jew. Muhammad was a Jew and regarded himself as the last prophet of the Judaic-Christian tradition.

            That means that we all believe in the same God.

            Sometimes I think that the world would be a better place if God was non-prophet.

      • 0 avatar
        Master Baiter

        “Everyone wants to make this a political issue when it’s purely a pragmatic one,”

        Both parties support crony capitalism, so they are both to blame (or credit, if you will.) A company that is too big to fail should be forced to break up.
        .
        .

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          And that could be exactly the reason why more thinking people are declaring themselves to be Independent thinkers, voting for the best candidate instead of swallowing the party shhpiel hook, line and sinker.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          Crony Kapitalism is a metastatic cancer.

          Cronies tied into the power structure do tend to benefit in an incredibly disproportionate (many would claim unethical, immoral, and even criminally) manner in the wake of economic crises.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            I don’t think it’s coincidence that the leading presidential candidate in both parties is the one most opposed to crony capitalism. Voters will have to figure out which of these two is a credible champion of their values, and which is blowing smoke.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Crony Kapitalism is a metastatic cancer.”

            And just like cancer, the host eventually dies.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Vogo,

            They’re all blowing smoke. Believing otherwise is to deny reality.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            This

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        your average free market LOLbertarian would shit himself if he knew just how entwined the Japanese government is into its industries.

        and the big difference from British Leyland is when BL got bailed out, they took it as a license to continue making the same garbage they’d been making all along. GM and Chrysler were at least working towards addressing their products’ uncompetitiveness when everything collapsed and they ran out of money.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          Japan, Germany, USA, China, Korea – all MIXED economies, CENTRALLY PLANNED, to some extent greater or less.

          Only those ignorant of history and real economics believe things such as “China has a centrally planned economy but the U.S. is a free-market one.”

          The success or lack thereof of particular manufacturers in these respective nations owes more to cultural, infrastructure, educational, technical and other factors apart from economic ideology, more or less.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Bullsh*t, every one of those countries has a centrally planned economy whether the Politburo is comprised politicians or a bankers.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            Not sure if you’re responding to me or Jim, 28, but whether by mandate, subsidy, “credit,” there is not one true laissez-faire, free market economy in the world.

            The extent of planning of the economy at the central or federal level in nations from the U.S. to Korea to Japan to Germany to China is far less than the majority of people suspect.

            China skews more towards heavy-handed central planning while the U.S. skews less than such a level (by the number of mandates, at least), but every nation in the world has a mixed economy model involving a heavy degree of central planning whether by carrot and/or stick.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Japan’s economy has been meddled with for what, twenty five years? Since 2008 the US and most Western economies have been centrally planned by central bankers. I agree China is more upfront and heavy handed about it than most but those other nations are right in the thick of it to some degree. Could there be a “mixed” definition? Perhaps. I could see a shades of grey because nothing is Laissez-faire, but your economy is always in a stranglehold once you involve those central planing criminals.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            Sorry, 28.

            I wrote that:

            “The extent of planning of the economy at the central or federal level in nations from the U.S. to Korea to Japan to Germany to China is far LESS than the majority of people suspect.”

            I meant to write:

            “The extent of planning of the economy at the central or federal level in nations from the U.S. to Korea to Japan to Germany to China is far GREATER than the majority of people suspect.”

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            No need to apologize, Kai-shek.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Robert Scheuer may be a fraudster, but his Ion was still defective.

    The headline gives the false impression that the entire ignition switch game has changed, when in reality Mr Scheuer’s case is just a sideshow.

  • avatar
    RideHeight

    This thread smells like old people.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      You mean like the stale urine smell of a nursing home?

      • 0 avatar
        RideHeight

        No, that freaky mustiness that emanates from scalps and clothing on even some active old people. I think we begin rotting long before clinical death.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          RideHeight – there are 3 definitions of death:
          1. Brain death (self explanatory)
          2. Clinical death – time during which your heart has stopped beating.
          3. Biological death – cells die.

          So, in theory you are correct.

          Physiologically we peak around 40 years old.

          • 0 avatar
            RideHeight

            And the last cells to die in some humans are in the pons region which few laypeople know is actually a contraction of “pontificates”.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            40? I’ve got work to do.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            28-Cars-Later, some time ago I read a similar comment by RideHeight in a different thread re pontification by old people, where he explained the pons.

            I always thought his comment about old people was aimed at me since I’m 30 past 40.

            On that note, I too will hang it up. Last buyer has left and I will take my leave.

            Got places to go to tomorrow, people to see and things to do.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            RideHeight – “And the last cells to die in some humans are in the pons region which few laypeople know is actually a contraction of “pontificates”.”

            Wow – you are good.

            I’m not worthy.

            I’m not worthy.

            LOL

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          “that freaky mustiness that emanates from scalps and clothing on even some active old people.”

          Damn! Where do you hang out?

          I have no idea what that smells like, and I often go to Nursing Homes in my area with other men and women from our church to comfort the inmates and sit with them for a while.

          Yeah, I know the fragrance of soggy Depends, but not the smell you describe.

          Hell, all my friends are genuine antiques and they don’t smell like that, even when drenched in sweat at the shooting range or working out at the Base Gym.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            highdesertcat –

            I’m not surprised that you completely missed the metaphorical significance of RideHeight’s comment.

    • 0 avatar
      shaker

      Unlike “Beetlejuice”, “Obama” only needs a single utterance to bring out the mayhem and disillusionment of people who (despite being sensitive and intelligent in their own chosen circles) have distinctly calcified sections of their brains when it comes to the changing world.

      Hell, I have it, too, but I’m trying to look at the possibilities of a ‘new world’ that’s a bit more fair to all, with our country being an example to all.

      Then you have the fundamentalists (Muslims and ‘crusaders’) that fall back on fairy-tales that are many, many hundreds of years old (despite many being educated) as templates not only how to live their lives, but (with the power of the gun) how the rest of the world should live theirs as well.

      Any human brain should react to this with sadness and revulsion.

      Let the wars fade into the past – ‘Satan’ exists – in our own minds, and only we (as individuals) can destroy it.

      I like the Bolt, and I’m glad that GM is still around to bring it to market.

  • avatar
    highdesertcat

    Lou_BC, I’m disappointed that you thought I missed the metaphorical significance of RideHeight’s comment.

    But OK, since I wouldn’t be here all this time if I didn’t HAVE to be, like with one foot nailed to the floor, running around in circles.

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