De Nysschen: Cadillac CT6 Likely To Gain Twin-Turbo V8

Remember the Cadillac XLR, which was a rebadged Corvette? Sorry to be so "realistic," but SSDD from Johan.

I wonder if its going to be exclusive to Cadi will it be a variant of the LT pushrod engines or a multicam/multivalve V8? Twin turbo is code for small displacement. That's my guess then a sub five liter DOHC 4V V8, another 4.6 or smaller perhaps?

@raph He's probably just full of s*** but I can't imagine GM spending a billion dollars to develop a new V8 which would never see use in anything outside of Cadillac (remember prole brands can't have nice motors per unelected overlords). Even GM isn't that stupid to spend money on a brand new drivetrain for a low volume model/brand.

@DeadWeight While being built upon the same chassis, the XLR had: *A folding hardtop roof *A Northstar V8 instead of the LS-3 *Completely different body and interior panels That's a bit more than a "rebadge".

@28-Cars-Later You just caught a lying Nysschen by the tail. GM is not going to allow Johan to develop niche-level, Cadillac specific/exclusive motors, given the massive amortization costs involved, for use in Cadillac vehicles that may sell on the order of 500 to even 1200 or 2000 per month. Even Daimler, BMW nor VAG (Audi) would not allow this (MB sends existing platforms out to AMG for skunkworks fiddling, BMW has the M division, and VAG throws some FI onto existing motors for Audi S variations).

@bunkie Okay, that even further cements the point of how incredibly un-doable it is to develop exclusive motors for niche luxury vehicles. GM wouldn't even do/allow it for the 70k to 80k Cadillac XLR back in the early 2000s, choosing to stick a DTS Northstar in there.

@DeadWeight VAG allows this type of thing (Phaeton) and has the money to do it, but they are the only automaker I could see allowing something like this to happen. In GM's case I could see an LS variant being produced, especially if the plan is to offer turbo fail on the Corvette in the near future.

@DeadWeight Does JdN run things by RenCen before he talks? Are the really going to greenlight a DOHC V8 and either use it as a Cadillac only engine or replace the LS/LT with this new engine? Again, GM is giving me a headache. I admit that I'm a Ford guy, but I have nothing but respect for GMs current V8s. Heck, I bet during the financial meltdown Mullaly, Fields, Farley, and Bill Ford Jr were sitting on top of the glass house, with a telescope pointed at the RenCen, trying to figure out how they could end up with the GM Powertrain division.

@DeadWeight It wasn't a DTS Northstar. It was a STS Northstar. Which had more torque and was longitudinally placed instead of the DTS's transverse setup.

@DeadWeight I've argued quite a few times that the Northstar was actually a perfect Cadillac engine. It was quieter and more refined than the pushrod V8s. Considering the mission of the XLR, I'd say it was perfect. That, of course, has nothing to do with the fact that the market for $75K luxury sportscars had already peaked by the time the XLR came out. While I agree that a clean-sheet bespoke Cadillac engine isn't a very good investment these days, I'm not sure I get your point re the XLR, since it came with a Cadillac-only engine.

@DeadWeight Even the the lower spec V8 & upper spec W12 in the Phaeton were shared across platforms for VAG (4.2 liter V8 with Audi A8; D1 W12 6.0 liter with Bentley Continental & Bentley GT). And Ferdy is a spendthrift to such a degree that other German industry captains think of him as eccentric to the point of irrational.

@DeadWeight "Does JdN run things by RenCen before he talks?" Based on his rants thus far and clear exaggerations about future Cadillac exclusive powerplants, I'd bet not. Dude's a loose cannon.

@DeadWeight My point is that the XLR was Cadillac attempt at the time for a Halo vehicle, and they stuffed a variant of a quite common, existing motor into it, rather than giving it an exclusive motor, which would have been so cost intensive as to be a non-starter, and that this will not change in the next 5 years as a matter of basic numbers/costs/business models, despite what Johan claims about future Cadillac exclusive motors. The CT6 is being priced at 70k and up, according to Johan, so I doubt Cadillac will sell more than 12,000 of them per year under the best case scenario.

@DeadWeight I want Mark Reuss to fight JdN.

@28-Cars-Later GM already has a DOHC V8 ready to go that was going to be produced at the Tonawanda plant, starting in 2009, but in early '08 they announced that they were killing the program. As I understand it, most of the development work already had been done. Now whether or not making a Cadillac specific engine is a good business idea (as good as the LS and LT families are, I do think that Cadillac needs an engine unique to the brand in any flagship they'd make) it's not going to cost them a billion dollars to put an already designed motor into production. At the time the project to make Tonawanda ready to make that engine was scheduled to cost $300 million. http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/gm-cancels-v8-program-luxury-cars Though I think that luxury brands should offer engine with lots of cylinders, 90% of cars with luxury nameplates sold in North America have V6 engines.

@bball I'd pay to see a deathmatch between them, and I'd bet on 'Murica FTW.

@Ronnie Schreiber Thanks for the info, Ronnie. Would a motor which at this point is close to ten years old be a viable solution though (with emissions zealots and whatnot)?

@DeadWeight Jim Farley and Mark Fields would want a piece too. I feel like Fields' mullet makes him want to fight everyone and Farley wants to, "beat GM with a bat."

@Ronnie Schreiber And Ford had a 4.4L turbo diesel ready for the F150 in 2009. That doesn't make it a good idea for them to put that engine in the F150 in 2015. Edit: WHO AM I KIDDING?!? I WANT A DIESEL F150!

@DeadWeight The LH2 Northstar engine only available in 3 Cadillacs. The other engine option the LC3 Northstar was available in only 2 cadillacs. I'm certain that other manufacturers have dropped their "common" V8's into more of their cars.

@Ronnie Schreiber I don't know if an engine designed to go into production just 5 years ago would be obsolete today, but in any case they wouldn't have to start the engine design from scratch. At the time the engine was described as "advanced" so it would probably be fairly up to date today. Offhand, most of the improvements in engines have had to do with head design, like direct injection, and valve operation like variable valve timing and lift, which I'm pretty sure don't have much to do with the basic architecture.

@DeadWeight I bet Bob Lutz wants to fight Johan. My money is on Lutz, despite the age discrepancy.

@DeadWeight Bob Lutz would run Johan down with that JGC he smashed throgh the front of Cobo twenty some years ago. Maximum Bob doesn't fight fair.

@Ronnie Schreiber Cool, thx Ronnie.

@Ronnie Schreiber I'd do the opposite of exclusive. I'd take C7 engines with Corvette logos intact and drop it in. Exterior, I'd put some small Corvette wing logos to let everyone know what was inside.

@raph Something of a tangent, but does anyone else like the display engines GM brings to auto shows? I feel like I'm part of the 1% of attendees who actually look at them. Seeing an L83 on display really emphasized the relative compactness of pushrod engines. The real world cost-benefit might not add up, but from an enthusiast's perspective it'd be neat to see GM tune a small V8 for a Cadillac-friendly combo of good NVH/economy/usable power in their non-V models.

Yes, but note the use of the qualifier - "eventually". Will that day ever come?

@DeadWeight Okay, I'll bite. What on earth was wrong with the XLR? If Mercedes can sell an SL550 what is wrong with Cadillac offering an XLR? I don't know if they met their sales goals or not but the XLR seems to be holding its value quite well in the used market.

@Kevin Jaeger I happen to have a soft spot for the XLR. But if I were to venture a guess, I'd say it was pricing and, perhaps, styling. The XLR was the most extreme example of the Art & Science design.

@bunkie I quite like the XLR as well, but I take your point on the styling. I the the CTS coupe was the most extreme, though. It seems to me that with the XLR and STS Cadillac was making cars that fit DW's idea of what a Cadillac should be. While I've been tempted by both it appears they didn't sell well enough for Cadillac to continue them.

@bunkie I have to agree. I'd love to own an XLR and I did own a V8 STS, which I adored.

@DeadWeight I had the pleasure of driving an XLR-V once. The one with the supercharged Northstar. It was superb.

Why are some ethnic slurs acceptable? I doubt that you'd use the contemporaneous WWII era term for Japanese.

I would take a guess and say it would be for export markets. The Chinese market Cadillac SLS (US market STS) was available with a 2.0 4 cylinder. Both Audi and BMW will be offering or are offering 4 cylinders in China. And its been reported somewhere that it will a new engine.

@Ronnie Schreiber Is it a slur when you can find Kraut juice on your supermarket juice aisle?

@Ronnie Schreiber White on white crime

@Mr. Orange You bring up a good point, but I could see it being offered here as well (given CTS carries it).

@28-Cars-Later Doesn't the CTS exist in a segment where all the largest players (minus one) offer inline 4s.

@bball40dtw Careful now. That could trigger feelings of being microaggressed because of the phrase "white on rice" and the association of rice with Asian cuisine. BTW, I was just poking fun at something silly but when the Urban Dictionary has to explain that "white on rice" "does not carry any racist connotations" we're way beyond the looking glass, far from Kansas.

You all do realize he was born and raised in South Africa right?

@Ronnie Schreiber Germans just aren't that sensitive

@sunridge place He doesn't look the least bit African ;-)