By on January 31, 2015

Car sales vs light truck sales chart 2014After selling in virtually identical numbers in 2013, light truck sales in the United States overtook car sales in 2014 for the first time since 2011.

Light trucks, a category which encompasses everything from pickups and body-on-frame SUVs to minivans and commercial vans to SUVs and very car-like crossovers, accounted for 52% of U.S. new vehicle volume in 2014, up from 49.9% in 2013.

Passenger cars, a far more restrictive vehicle classification, achieved less than 2% year-over-year growth in the U.S. in 2014 even as the industry as a whole improved by 6%. Over the last decade, however, car volume was only twice superior to that of the 2014 level. Those two years, 2005 and 2006, also happened to be years in which light trucks outsold passenger cars. That trend came to an end in 2008, a twelve-month period which began a three-year span in which passenger cars would be the dominant force.

The light truck increase in 2014 can be divided into four groups. Pickup truck sales jumped nearly 7%. Commercial van sales rose 14%. Minivan volume was up slightly less than 5%. SUVs and crossovers overachieved with a 12% improvement to more than 5M units.

Timothy Cain is the founder of GoodCarBadCar.net, which obsesses over the free and frequent publication of U.S. and Canadian auto sales figures.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

Recommended

109 Comments on “Chart Of The Day: Cars vs. Light Trucks Over The Last Decade...”


  • avatar

    If I had a light truck with a bed, I’d rent my time out for people who needed to move items from Walmart, Ikea, Costco, etc. Easy, Easy money.

    some people don’t have the knowhow, common sense or ability to simply borrow a truck from Hertz/ Uhaul.

    • 0 avatar
      sunridge place

      Dude. You should totally buy a truck then get on Uber to make this easy money you speak of moving stuff from Home Depot to homes.. Then, you should film it in your patented vomit-inducing style to monetize the purchase two ways by posting it on youtube.

    • 0 avatar
      mkirk

      My Frontier has 4 doors so I can haul the kids about, can pull my small camper the 5 or 6 times a year I camp, accommodate my wife’s antiquing and does nicely at the home depot. So let’s say the bed has stuff in it 20 days out of the year not counting the camping trips since my camper could be pulled by something not of the body on frame variety. How does renting a truck 20 times a year make financial sense? The Frontier averages 19 miles per gallon. So let’s say I rent a truck. Last time I did that to haul an engine from the freight depot it was 45 bucks. Yes the home depot truck is 20 but I have never only needed it for an hour so that’s out. 45 bucks at 20 days is 900 bucks. That is a lot of gas for the Frontier at the current 30 dollar fill up and even the bad old 70 dollar fill ups of 2014. This doesn’t factor in the spontaneous antique buys or the convince of being able to throw a weeks worth of camping nastiness in to the bed versus stinking up my interior.

      I know it will come as a shock to many of the B&B, but the answer to every automotive question is not Hemi/Panther/brown diesel wagon/mazda6. As a small truck owner I have to say it is pretty convienent unlike begging/renting and at 22 grand and some change new it really isn’t costing me much for that convince.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @mkirk – agreed. Renting versus buying a truck ONLY makes sense for those who might need a truck once a year.

        How many people drive sports cars and never attend a track day?

        @BTSR – are you serious? and or for real?

        If someone asked me to borrow my truck I’d tell them to f^ck off. I’ve helped a lot of people move stuff but when I needed help none of those people were available.

        I don’t tow or haul on a routine basis but there is always a tool box in back of my truck with tools and offroad gear as well as safety/survival gear. I’ve had a lot of complete strangers ask me for help because they see a truck guys as being handy.

        My truck fits my lifestyle and like the old biker saying goes, ” If you gotta ask (why I drive a truck or ride a bike) you won’t understand the answer.

      • 0 avatar
        seth1065

        you forgot miata :) everyone needs either a pickup or a buddy w one

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      A pickup truck has been part of my life since I left home to join the military in 1965, and was in fact the very first vehicle I bought with my own money after I left home. It was an old 60’s IHC 4-door Air Force flightline pickup truck, olive drab.

      While other cars and vans have come and gone throughout my life, I cannot imagine my life without at least one pickup truck — the vehicle with the most versatile all-round utility on the road.

      And when the 4-door 4X4 long bed dually pickup truck came out, that was nirvana, a rolling orgasm!

      Wish I could afford one.

  • avatar
    heavy handle

    The chart seems to show that light truck sales are more cyclical, while car sales are more steady.
    It also suggests that we are nearing the peak of the current cycle.

    • 0 avatar
      MrGreenMan

      Probably only cyclical in the sense of the business cycle; the pickup buyer demographic tends to be more represented in the front lines of the economy. Construction and related trades took a giant shellacking in 2008. New home construction was on a deep, deep slide – off over 67% from the peak. Time and Newsweek mockingly ran articles about the “Mancession” when more men were getting displaced because construction etc are male-dominated fields, and blathered about blue collar men being unable to hack it in modern life; they’re now complaining that women are being left behind as too many men are getting back to work. Guys who haul things, move things, tote things, and build things had a lot less money for a little while, but are getting back to work, because the parked money has decided it’s boring and fruitless to remain parked waiting for a roaring recovery. The spike above cars recently is probably deferred consumption.

  • avatar
    jrmason

    I did not realize a minivan or a crossover or even an SUV for that matter was in the same class as a 1 ton dually. Most of the above I mentioned are unibody vehicles with little ability to carry cargo. Sure, you could fold the seats down and make the quarterly run to Sam’s Club, but your not going to haul a load of mulch or stone for the better half or a greasy engine block to the machine shop or hook up a 14k lb GVW tilt trailer.
    Maybe its just my narrow view and limited ability to reason, but a pick up has a bed to haul cargo and an SUV, crossover and a minivans primary functions are to haul passengers and are bought for totally different reasons/needs. Seems they should be seperated for such comparisons.

    • 0 avatar
      ect

      It seems that carmakers have a lot of leeway in classifying vehicles as trucks. Originally, it’s my understanding that classifying car-based minivans as trucks exempted these vehicles from safety standards and CAFE calculations.

      It does distort charts like the one in this post. Minivans and CUVs are basically the modern-day equivalent of the station wagon. If they were properly classified as cars, this chart would look very different. Because they aren’t, the chart is just misleading.

  • avatar
    thornmark

    Concerning passenger cars, does anyone know how the new Impala is doing?

    It seems GM doesn’t break out the fleet only Impala, making the alleged success of the somewhat suspect.

    • 0 avatar
      Mr. Orange

      140,000+ which is down -10% compared to last year.

      Since the demise of the Impala Classic in June sales dropped by about 3,000 units per month. But since the profit margins on the Episilon Impala are so much healthier it is probably considered a positive.

      • 0 avatar
        thornmark

        The fleet only Impala Limited is scheduled to be produced until 2016 according to Automotive News.

        “Chevy to keep fleet Impala until ’16”
        “GM does not break out Impala Limited sales from those of the mainstream model.”
        http://www.autonews.com/article/20131026/RETAIL01/131029909/chevy-to-keep-fleet-impala-until-16

        I do not see where that policy has changed.
        http://www.autonews.com/article/20140721/OEM04/307219981/chevy-to-revamp-key-cars-in-2015

  • avatar
    Fred

    Living in rural Texas I have a perverted view of the car vs truck numbers. I thought they there would be a much larger number of trucks. I need to get out more.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    Looking at “light trucks” as a whole over the period doesn’t provide you with a sense of what happened with the segments that comprise it. There has been a shift away from full-size domestic SUVs and minivans, and a surge in crossover sales.

    Full-size trucks also took a substantial hit over the last decade, although they have recovered some (but not nearly all) of their losses. They are still important, but have considerably less market share than they used to have.

    • 0 avatar
      TW5

      We could argue that car-buyers are in the bargaining stage of grief. First was denial as oil prices and SUV sales rose during last decade. Then unbridled anger when oil reached $140 in 2008. Now consumers are bargaining with the oil gods by driving crossovers. Next, pent-up SAAR will sag into a sales depression. Eventually, people will just accept that Prius/Leaf/Volt is their fate.

      x_x

  • avatar
    TW5

    The lines are so blurred, I’m not sure the delineation between passenger car and light truck means anything from a practical standpoint. The difference between light trucks and passenger cars is mainly relevant for CAFE-compliance wonks.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      @TW5,
      I think you’ve got it correct.

      What is called trucks in the US would hardly pass as much more than a sedan in many nations around the globe. A PT Cruiser is classified as a truck.

      A fairer system to determine vehicles rather than categorise as trucks or whatever is to register a vehicle as business or private.

      Look at most full size 1/2 ton pickups. The aren’t trucks as such, but personal SUV/car alternatives.

      I’d bet this would disrupt the Big 2 and Fiat.

      And the government can formulate a way to add a 25% tax on the private pickups! Joking.

      • 0 avatar
        TW5

        It would be much fairer, but in the highly-litigious world of US commercial activity, many businesses would never opt to register their vehicles as business-property. It drastically increases insurance premiums for auto and business liability, and it subjects businesses to onerous asset taxes imposed by state authorities (especially in Texas).

        I wish we could find some sort of way to distinguish personal vehicles from commercial vehicles, but those lines may be even more blurred than passenger car vs. light truck.

        • 0 avatar
          el scotto

          I ‘ve had to insure my company’s commercial vehicles. There is no way in this great wide world my insurance company would believe that I personally drove 10 F-150’s with company’s name on the side, lumber racks, and aluminum cladding on the bed and tail gate tops where for personal use. No, it doesn’t drastically increase your insurance premiums; rules are set up for corporate use. DUI in company truck? Fired. Speeding ticket? 1 unpaid day off to think about things. Deliberate abuse/lack of common sense maintenance like checking the oil? Fired and don’t ask for a reference. The trucks also get parked in the company lot at night and on weekends. Draconian rules? Perhaps but you get free use of work vehicle and I get commercial insurance rates. Most people don’t tear up what they use for their livelihood. So what if they get taxed as a corporate asset? They’re depreciating assets. Business liability insurance costs skyrocketing? If one of my employees ran into a bus full of orphans going to the organic baby milk factory my employees insurance company would be first on the lawsuit merry go round, then my company vehicle insurance company would be second on the lawsuit merry go round; THEN and only then would my business be sued. So no, draconian increases for business liability do not occur.

          • 0 avatar
            TW5

            @ el scotto

            If I had a dollar for every time I heard the lay-entrepreneur’s guide to tax planning, my wealth would make Bill Gates blush.

            It sounds like you have a well-designed setup, but go ask a doctor, lawyer, financial-planner, restauranteur, insurance agent, hair stylist, dance instructor, jeweler, general contractor or almost any small-business person if their vehicles are titled in the company name. If you start studying now, in about 6-8 years you’ll know why the answer is “no”.

            Godspeed

      • 0 avatar
        Onus

        Al,

        What the Federal Government views as trucks for emissions purposes is a totally different matter. The fact is a PT cruiser would never be registered as a truck at the state level.

        In my state trucks get different plates, and pay for registration based on weight. 1/2 tons can use passenger plates but they still must pay the truck fees. Most states are similar in this respect.

        We also have a complete different registration and plate for commercial vehicles. So we have it all.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      TW5 – this is the definition of light truck:

      United States

      Federal regulations define a light-duty truck to be any motor vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating (curb weight plus payload) of no more than 8,500 pounds (3,855.5 kg) which is:
      “(1) Designed primarily for purposes of transportation of property or is a derivation of such a vehicle, or
      (2) Designed primarily for transportation of persons and has a capacity of more than 12 persons, or
      (3) Available with special features enabling off-street or off-highway operation and use.”

      Fuel efficiency

      Light trucks includes vans, pickups, and sport utility vehicles.

      The United States government uses light truck as a vehicle class in regulating fuel economy through the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standard. The class includes vans, minivans, sport utility vehicles, and pickup trucks. Light trucks have lower fuel economy standards than cars, under the premise that these vehicles are used for utilitarian purposes rather than personal transportation.

      Since light trucks sold in the US are increasingly being used for personal use, some have advocated applying higher economy standards to light trucks that are not used for utilitarian purposes.

      Tariffs

      US production of light trucks are protected by the Chicken Tax, a 25% tariff on imported light trucks.

      …………………………………………………………….

      – Any BOF SUV is a light truck.
      – Minivans can only carry up to 8 passengers but with stowable seats or removable seats they can be converted to cargo therefore that pushes them into the light truck category.
      – I’m not sure how CUV’s actually fit into the light truck category other than the fact that most have AWD/4×4 “softroader” components that allow marginal “off street” capability.
      – light pickups obviously fit the description.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        @Lou_BC,
        To throw a spanner (wrench) in the works.

        The difference you referred to as how can a SUV/CUV be determined as a truck is CAFE and the EPA are two different beasts.

        The EPA regards CUV style vehicles as trucks for emissions and FE.

        This system was encouraged by the US vehicle manufacturers as a loop hole in not meeting FE targets.

        Another technical work around, which seems to be prevalent in the US auto manufacturing industry.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          @Lou, BAFO – The US is a country of laws, letter of the law. Yes too many law, but the good news is you can easily get around them, and avoid them on simple technicalities, thanks to that “letter of the law,”

          Laws are routinely avoided and jail time escaped. Good and bad. Income tax is avoided by loopholes and by the same, the Chicken tax is avoided, again, by that “letter of the law”. Thank gawd, or the short lived Mini-Truck Craze/Fad/Movement would’ve never happened!

  • avatar
    210delray

    @jrmason: You have a very good point that gets overlooked in these discussions of “car” vs. “truck.” Minivans and the unibody crossovers are hardly trucks in the traditional sense, but rather are station wagon substitutes. I could see including traditional BOF SUVs in the truck category and some other unibody SUVs like the Grand Cherokee, because they have the ability to haul, tow, and go offroad.

    If we reclassified vehicles in this manner, cars would have a much higher percentage of sales than trucks. This of course will never happen primarily because of the CAFE standards.

    • 0 avatar
      jrmason

      Are HD pickups still excluded from CAFE standards? I don’t follow the updates very close, but at one time they were excluded.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        There is a new medium truck standard that is separate from CAFE.

        • 0 avatar
          jrmason

          What does it include other than HD pickups? Are half tons included as well?

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/02/18/fact-sheet-opportunity-all-improving-fuel-efficiency-american-trucks-bol

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Psk101,
            Whitehouse.gov????

            Hmmm……Obama’s “mouthpiece” to the world.

            He never puts spin on anything, would he?

            So, what important parts did Obama omit in from this press release??

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        @jrmason,
        Vehicles with a GVM of over 8 500lbs are regulated under a completely different system.

        This system is actually quite similar to how the EU manages their whole vehicle fleet. It is a better system than the CAFE footprint method.

        It uses weight to determine FE. From a business perspective this will is a fairer system.

        But, its according how far the FE is pushed as well.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    The system of what is a truck in the US was created to protect the auto industry from actually achieving CAFE FE requirements.

    Trucks do have more lenient FE requirements than cars.

    The truck classification in the US is a throw back from days gone by. Maybe the US should modernise it’s regulations to reflect what is actually occurring in the market.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      No, light trucks have lower fuel economy standards than cars, under the premise that these vehicles can be used for utilitarian purposes rather than just personal transportation.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      @BAFO – Luckily we live in a place offers up what most of the world would prefer or gravitate towards if given the choice. Which may be bigger vehicles, cheap fuel, guns and all the ammo you could want, or all the legal pot you could smoke. Or all of the above. I’m not saying it’s the greatest place on earth, but at least we have that going for us.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        @DiM,
        Yes, we finally agree, Australia has that!

        When are you immigrating to Australia?

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        @DiM,
        I’ll when you move over here I’ll help you decide on a vehicle.

        We have anything ever built in the world. I know you are disappointed a little about those US restrictions that don’t allow you the freedom to buy a vehicle you want.

        Since, you are a Ford Apologist we can go out and look at some HDs or F-150s.

        I’ll even help you get a job. Judging by your comments an unskilled job would be best for you. But, these jobs like a waitress or barman will get you $25ph. Or as a mature person flipping burgers at McDonalds as a casual will get you $23ph.

        We also get 4 weeks annual leave and accrue 3 months long service after 10 years (if you can last that long in a job). Just don’t talk the crap like you submit on these blog sites. Or you’ll be fired quick smart. Australians like people that have integrity and sincerity.

        I might even get you to buy a Mazda BT-50GT. A diesel, like a miniature HD!

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          “We also get 4 weeks annual leave and accrue 3 months long service after 10 years”

          I see that working for the government is just as cushy and benefit laden there as it is here

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Lie2all,
            Government????

            Have a look at the work conditions at McDonalds in Australia. And yet we only pay $6.95 ($5.80USD) for a Big Mac Meal Deal.

            Boy, you do like making a fool of yourself with your uneducated comments……again.

            Use Google. Google is your friend!

            https://apply.mcdonalds.com.au/public/index.cfm?action=showPublicContent&assetCategoryId=2461

            http://www.sdan.org.au/sites/sdan.org.au/files/resources/mcdonalds_xmas_2014.pdf

            http://www.sdan.org.au/sites/sdan.org.au/files/resources/mcdonalds_australia_enterprise_agreement_2013.pdf

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            I was talking about your cushy government job, why are you talking about McDonald’s?

            Are you drinking and typing like that other drunk from down under RobertRyan?

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Lie2all,
            It appears your comment alludes to the fact that what I’m receiving is a perk that other outside of government don’t receive.

            If this wasn’t your intention, then maybe you could do some kind of bridging course in English to gain entry into Elementary school.

            Also, the help DiM get a job flipping burger in Australia. It also highlights that McDonalds worker here are on a pretty good wicket as the Brits would say.

            So, I had to again expand your mind or in another word educate and mentor you.

            When I’m done you might reach the level of Psk101. That will be a monumental day. Sort of like you able to get an “F” in school.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Ok, so your government job is on par with a job at McDonald’s. I get it now, my bad

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    @Lie2me,
    Oh friend of many toes and fingers, read and weep.

    Why do you insist on making so many dumb ass comments on this site. Most of your input is of little value or incorrect.

    Yourself, DiM, Pch101 and several others shouldn’t get all of your info from your friends. Rumours are just that.

    ——————————————————————–

    “2012-2016 Standards

    The 2012-2016 standards [2232] are based on CO2 emissions-footprint curves, where each vehicle has a different CO2 emissions compliance target depending on its “footprint” value, related to the size of the vehicle—an approach first introduced in the reformed CAFE (2008-2011) standards for light trucks. Generally, the larger the vehicle footprint, the higher the corresponding vehicle CO2 emissions target. As a result, each manufacturer will have its own fleet-wide standard which reflects the vehicles it chooses it produce. Table 1 shows the projected fleet-wide CO2 emission and fuel economy requirements. The EPA CO2-equivalent fuel economy figures are different from the CAFE figures because the EPA allows additional CO2 credits for air conditioning improvements.”

    The link, look at at Table 1. This should enlighten you;

    https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/fe_ghg.php

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      @Lie2me,
      CO2 equates to FE. More CO2 equals more fuel burnt. A new concept for you.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        “@Lie2me,
        CO2 equates to FE. More CO2 equals more fuel burnt. A new concept for you.”

        What does this have to do with truck classifications in the US that for the life of me can’t understand why you are so obsessed with other then the fact you’re a full blown fruitcake?

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          I read your snipquote. That’s just hilarious.

          Read the exchange that follows. Notice how BAFO thinks that I’m lying when I explain to him that a European fleet-wide CO2 standard is effectively the same as a CAFE MPG standard:

          https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/10/capsule-review-ram-1500-diesel/#comment-2239545

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Psk101,
            No, I do believe your over simplification (again) has distorted the reality of what is the truth.

            Then explain, why are US trucks over 8 500lbs adopting the weight/FE and not the CAFE footprint?

            The outcome will be similar, that is a reduction in FE.

            Hmmm……been drinking too much UAW Koolaid today, sunshine?

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      @BAFO – The EU (an MeToo markets) uses similar dastardly targets, showing lots more leniency towards the FE/CO2 of larger vehicles. Instead of “footprint”, theirs is based on weight. Same difference. But again, zigging anywhere US regs zag.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        @DiM,
        So now its the EU’s fault?

        If everyone one in the EU hits their thumbs with a hammer this will occur in the US? Boy, I thought this discussion was in relation to the US?

        The EU forced the US into the chicken tax or was it the Unions and Lyndon Johnson in the US? It might just be that the US isn’t as competitive as some on this site try to project.

        Also, understand that CAFE’s footprint is not the same as using vehicle weight.

        I might be incorrect about your job prospects in Australia. I wonder if we have an IQ test to allow immigrants in? You’d embarrass the US. You might be better off collecting those food stamps than come to Australia;)

        Come on, get real. You are talking like a child here. So, I must lower my standards to interact with you, like a child.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          “I might be incorrect about your job prospects in Australia. I wonder if we have an IQ test to allow immigrants in?”

          I doubt it, Allen, otherwise you would have been deported years ago

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      “Why do you insist on making so many dumb ass comments on this site.”

      So that you can understand them, Mr. Plankton

  • avatar
    wmba

    I don’t really care much about trucks, but an article on them in the Feb issue of Car & Driver made me wonder a bit.

    Take the Ram 1500 Laramie Longhorn Limited 4X4 Crew Cab. Curb weight is 5964 lbs, GVWR 6900 lbs.

    To me that signifies a mere 936 lbs of payload, or about four fully Big Mac fed construction workers. Do their tools arrive in an auxiliary vehicle? Or, as I suspect, do they just throw them in the bed along with a portable concrete mixer and call it a day? Why bother with safety rules, right?

    The equivalent Ford which has a similarly chimeric name beats the Dodge with 1423 lbs payload.

    Makes no sense to me that such large vehicles have such small payloads. Putting aside Ford World Ranger diesel half-tons roaming the Northern Territory of Awestrialia with 1200 kgs of payload towing 747s into hangars at 43 mpg, why are these payloads so restrictive? Is it just a matter of suspension packages?

    My personal car has a weight of 3450 lbs and a GVWR of 4400, so it can carry 950 lbs, ostensibly more than the gargantuan Ram.

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      936 lbs payload represents a 17% improvement over the last Ram 1500 4×4 Crewcab that CandD had in a comparison test. That one was only good for 801 lbs. Both of them are weak sauce compared to something like a Corolla.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        In the half-ton series of 4×4 pickup trucks, the bed-load is not really a consideration. So 801lbs or 936lbs isn’t a deal breaker. Half-ton is considered a Light Duty pickup truck.

        If bed-load is a deciding factor then stepping up to a 3/4 ton or 1-ton is appropriate.

        Factor in variables such as Standard Cab, Ext or DoubleCab, and 4-door, and the 3/4-ton CrewCab Dually Longbed 4×4 would be a more prudent match.

        Each of these variants has a load-envelope.

        But people who actually need to carry passengers AND a bed-load will generally opt for a 1-ton Dually CrewCab LongBed 4×4, as a minimum. And in farm and ranch country, that’s the pickup truck of choice.

        Anything less will have load limitations.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      @wmba,
      Considering the low payload of the Ram on must wonder why.

      I do believe that FCA is aware of this. I’d expect a lot of money is invested into researching what the average Joe or Jane is looking for in a pickup.

      Then you must look at the remarkable recovery by Ram of late.

      This is suggesting to me that the average person looking for a pickup is first after carlike refinement, not payload and tow.

      It’s a given that these vehicles will tow a significant trailer. Even a 6 000lb tow capability is far beyond what most would ever tow using a pickup.

      So, what this does prove is most pickups are used as cars and daily drivers. They have no desire to carry more than a Corolla, but yet want to pick up some fertiliser or nails from Lowes now and then, pick up the kids from school, drive to work, etc. Everyday car use.

      There is a need for a ‘working’ pickup as well. But I do think only 25% of pickups sold are used for any kind of work.

      Even then if you wanted to tow 7 000lbs everyday you would probably look at a diesel HD, or the soon to be released Cummins powered Titan.

      I have realised that many of the “pickup freaks” try to justify the pickup for it’s tow and load ability.

      But as can also be witnessed is the huge increase in CUVs and the overall gradual decline of the full size pickup.

      People do want utility, but not as much as many assume to justify the full size pickup or even the mid size pickup.

      We use the same logic here in Australia to justify our pickups, as like in the US, they are empty and used to go to Bunnings (like Lowes), the wife collects the kids and go shopping and drive to work.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @BigAl – I think that Ram is playing on the fact that a large number of personal use 1/2 ton buyers are ignorant. I can say the same for most salesman since I’ve never been asked the end use for my pickup purchase. Ram should offer a max capacity 1500. The Ecodiesel is wasted in their 1500’s.

        I see overloaded 1/2 ton pickups all summer long during RV season. A family of 4 on board with a box full of gear hitched to a 10k trailer. I rarely ever see max cargo F150’s or GM’s pulling those loads.
        You mentioned diesel HD’s. Recreational 1 ton diesel buyers are just as stupid as many 1/2 ton buyers but for the opposite reasons. A 10k trailer is nothing to a 400hp/800lbft diesel tow monster. The drivers of the trucks act like they are driving empty which is just as dangerous as an overloaded 1/2 ton on 4 ply tires.

        (My last reply was eaten by the spambot)

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          @Lou_BC,
          As you are aware I’ve been watching the tit for tat stuff at PUTC.

          As I’ve stated in the past, I totally agree with your figures.

          But, I don’t assume the largest part of the pickup buying consumers are that stupid.

          I do think refinement is the answer nowadays in selling a pickup.

          Hence, the V8s, EcoBoosts, etc. People want a “large car”. They want large car refinement and performance. Hence, the “ignorant” view in relation to load and tow capabilities. They just aren’t interested in this stuff like the more dedicated pickup guys.

          The Ram sales success really had me thinking as well. I have given this careful thought for some time and that’s my conclusion.

          If I’m correct, we’ll see a larger takeup of the Colorado than many would expect.

          The Colorado would make a good litmus for my theory.

          But, the Colorado is overall more capable than many full size Rams.

          Odd that, something I’ve been talking about for some time in relation to the “new” mid sizers.

          I do believe that pickups should start (be forced) to use class as a marketing point.

          It is far more accurate than the current 1/2, 3/4, 1 ton arrangement.

          But then the manufacturers would cry, as it would be harder to deceive.

          Even better regulations are set out if the companies want to continue using the 1/2, 3/4, 1 ton system.

          Make it simple.

          1. 1/2 ton pickup (including mid size) must carry 1 500lbs and not exceed 2 500lbs, tow 7 000lbs and not exceed 10 000lbs. Have FE of more than 20mpg average. (irrespective of vehicle weight/footprint/fuel type).

          (Below the “1/2 ton class is the same as a motor car)

          2. 3/4 ton pickup must carry 2 500lbs and not exceed 3 500lbs and tow 10 000lbs and not exceed 15 000lbs(irrespective of vehicle weight/footprint/fuel type).

          3. 1 ton pickup must carry 3 500lbs and not exceed 4 500lbs and tow 15 000lbs and not exceed 20 000lbs(irrespective of vehicle weight/footprint/fuel type).

          4. Anything above this is considered a “real” truck.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Lou_BC,
            Forgot!

            3/4 ton FE must be minimum 17.5mpg average (empty).

            1 ton FE must be minimum 15mpg average (empty).

            This would make or force the manufacturers to really look at how much power is really necessary for a truck and reduce FE.

            A 250-300hp diesel will move a mountain.

            I remember as a kid my dad’s friend owned a bush mill (timber). They had a Mack with only a 250hp diesel. That thing moved 30 ton of logs up mountains with little difficulty.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            “I remember as a kid my dad’s friend owned a bush mill (timber). They had a Mack with only a 250hp diesel. That thing moved 30 ton of logs up mountains with little difficulty.”

            A 250hp 13 liter will have 3 times the torque as a 250hp 6-7 liter engine, not to mention 3 times the gearing. Kind of an apples to oranges comparison.
            I don’t disagree that the horsepower wars between Ford and Ram have gotten a little carried away, but it should NEVER be up to the government to limit the manufacturers in aspects like this. They’ve got entirely too much leverage as it is.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Big Al – you had commented that 75% of truck buyers are buying car/SUV substitutes. If they buy a pickup like they buy those other vehicles then you are correct in the fact that comfort, ride, luxury etc. are prime determinants for purchase.
            Ford offers a multitude of trim packages and capacity packages so it makes sense that they are #1 in sales because they cover every angle.
            Ram has clued in to that fact but have chosen to cover the more lucrative “SUV with a balcony” market. The problem with that strategy is that eventually those buyers will leave the market for another fad or fantasy. Another risk is those people will realize that their truck does not have the capacity to legally do what they want to do.
            I said on PUTC that many buy on desire (want) as opposed to need. That purchasing method often hits the reality that what they bought actually does not cover need i.e. capacity.
            It is ironic and probably NOT a coincidence that the 2 biggest Ram fanboys on PUTC overload their trucks routinely and have rationalizations to cover it. It is also no coincidence that they are the most brand loyal.
            I’ll consider Ram when durability and capacity are on par with the competition.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @jrmason,
            I realize that the Mack engines were that large and had completely different characteristics than even a modern diesel.

            I was using that comment to prove a point.

            Read and comprehend the loads I had expected to move in the article linked to that comment.

            No where did I state that a HD had to move 80-90 000lbs in total.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            “I’ll consider Ram when durability and capacity are on par with the competition.”

            You do realize Dodge/Ram is THE only of the big 3 that has a million mile club don’t you?

            “Read and comprehend the loads I had expected to move in the article linked to that comment.”

            I read it, and good luck with that. SRW have been beyond those weights for a while now. Why are you so adamant about more govt imposed limitations?

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @jrmason,
            I wouldn’t call this a bad regulation. This will protect the consumer, more than the manufacturer. I’m more for the protection of the consumer than the manufacturer.

            Manufacturers, even US vehicle manufacturers would sell death traps to the consumer if they could get away with it.

            Regulations tend to “legalise” how standards are used and managed. This would also protect the consumer.

            It would be no different than buying a quart of milk. The product will have a standard measure against it.

            Even trucks using roads must comply to width, length, height, load per axle, etc.

            So, the next time you buy a quart of milk be glad there are standards and regulation in place to ensure you are getting your quart of milk.

            My idea would also create a more flexible arrangement for the design of pickups.

            Imagine, if you design a midsizer to carry 2 501lbs and tow 10 001lbs, you could have a V8 in it.

            But the FE could be adjusted. I plucked those FE number out of my ass.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            “Imagine, if you design a midsizer to carry 2 501lbs and tow 10 001lbs, you could have a V8 in it.”

            They do,its called a half ton truck and IMO theyre over loaded at that weight. No way would I want a “mid sizer” (assuming you mean smaller) to tow that. I haul 10-15k and occasionally up to 18k several thousand miles a year and do so with an HD diesel pick up. You’ll never sell me on a light tow vehicle, when the tail wags the dog it makes my arse pucker.

            I still don’t see the benefit to the consumer by limiting the performance of a vehicle, but to each his own.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @jrmason,
            You are correct. But, again what you stated can be achieved with my idea plus a lot more.

            Re-read my comment and comprehend what could occur, not what is occurring now.

            It seems too many people who comment on this site are locked in the 1950s. This is the 21st century.

            Like I stated look at the flexibility my idea offers.

            There is more to the world than “having a 1/2 ton”.

            My idea will remove the requirement for expensive tech. Make pickups more affordable and remove the ambiguous marketing from the manufacturers.

            Flexibility. This would create a better pickup market in the US.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            That’s a great idea, Allen, perhaps someone in your country should make such a truck.

            I’m sorry, I forgot you killed your automobile industry there and now you’re dependent on whatever the rest of the world thinks you should drive, too bad.

            No utes for you, but we’ll drive our 1/2 tons forever. Would you like one of ours? You can for about what a small three bedroom house costs

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            Explain to me how a “modern” “light” vehicle can safely tow 10k lbs (or more) please. I suppose my 50s way of thinking is too simplistic to understand your logic. In my world (however outdated it may be), you need two things to make a tow rig safe: mass and stability (dual rear wheels). Those along with some common sense has kept me safe for many years, and it got me and my wedge trailer with 2 cars safely home Friday night in a horrendous blizzard.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            @Lie2me,

            There is a gentleman from OZ who ordered a 14 Ram 3500/CTD. He purchased it in Austin, TX, had it transported to Long Beach, CA where it was loaded on a boat and shipped to Sydney, Australia. It was then converted to RHD, he picked it up and drove another 2500 miles home. According to him, the truck traveled 16k miles from the dealer to his doorstep and the conversion alone cost $33,000 USD. He never divulged what the shipping cost, but I’m guessing you could add another $10k (or more). He essentially bought 2 trucks for what he’s got invested in it. Unbelievable.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Yes, I’m sure it cost the gentleman from Oz every bit of that. I’m also aware that a HD or just a “glamor” truck costs about $150K down under once the repressive Australia taxes are paid and their silly RHD requirements are met.

            You now understand the real motivation of our Aussie commenters. We can have cheaply what many there desperately want and need, but can’t afford, a real truck. So, their logic seems to be if they can’t have them then no one should have them

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @jrmason – maybe a million miles on Cummins engine but those million milers do not list repairs. If one lives in the southern USA and travels mostly highway and paved roads one could stand a chance of getting to a million miles.

            Case in point, my brother works for a large forest resource company and has driven every brand of pickup in his career. Most do not last beyond 160,000 km or 100,000 miles. He puts that mileage on his trucks mostly on gravel roads and often in -45C weather over 2-3 years. His trucks tend to get sold at “as is where is” auctions with a you buy you tow away policy.

            Ram has the worst durability rating according to JD Power, Vincentric, and Consumer Reports.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Lie2me,
            Nope, why have those jobs when Thai’s can do it cheaper.

            We just engineer and design them. It’s more value adding from our end.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @jrmason,
            You seem to be a very insular North American, most probably from the US, judging by your lack of knowledge and inability to look at the future.

            These trucks you speak of almost exist already.

            Your half ton pickups are Class 2. Their GCM ranges roughly from 5 000kg to 7 000kg.

            Our midsizers already have a 6 000kg GCM. They sort of sit in the middle of your collection of Class 2, 1/2 ton pickups.

            You should look outside of the US and see what is already on offer. Being so insular a backward looking isn’t for a nation.

            Open your mind up. My idea removes the CAFE footprint, yet it still place FE targets, increase flexibility into pickup design and save money.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            Obviously there will be a substantial number of repairs over the course of a million miles. Another obvious is that for so many people to reach such a milestone, the cost per mile is low enough that it is worthwhile to make the repairs vs buy a new pick up. For these trucks to be recognized they have to have the mileage verified by a dealer with a witech scan. Do a national search of HD pickups, you will routinely find Dodges with 350k+ miles still commanding a premium. The same search will net you very few Fords or GMs with similar mileage. There is good reason for this, the vast majority of the countries hot shotters know what holds up and what doesn’t and they buy what works. You shouldn’t lean so heavy on bs reports, most of them aren’t worth the TP I wipe my arse with in the morning.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            Al,
            Yes I’m American. Proud of it. You can view me any which way that suits you, I’m OK with that. My country may have its share of faults but I’ve been around the world enough to know its still the greatest country on earth, and by far has the greatest trucks on earth. I don’t spend that much time day dreaming about what other countries have because what I have in my shop works great. You can keep your compact ute with a V8 or whatever it is that’s superior in your eyes, and I’ll keep my diesel belching rigs with wide hips. They make me more than enough money to pay their way around here.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            @jrmason, you don’t have to make excuses for being an American to the Big Dufus from Oz, who obsessive jealousy of anything American taints his every comment.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @jrmason,
            I glad your proud to be an American like I am.

            But, you seem to dwell on what has been achieved and not on what can be achieved.

            Look beyond what exist to what could exist.

            You seem to be focused on only what has occurred in the US and not see what can or could occur in the US.

            The US, like Australia, Canada and many other nations have so many opportunities to grasp.

            Don’t be so insular.

            As for what you drive is great. For my purposes I don’t require a large pickup. I actually don’t require any pickup, but I chose one.

            If I ever move back to the US I don’t know what I would drive. As I do think a full size wouldn’t suffice if I want to off road.

            But, then again off roading in the US is different to what we generally do off roading. We tend to tour and camp for extended periods often. So, expeditionary off roading is what we do.

            This leaves many gasoline and larger pickups out of the question as a suitable vehicle, due to their low FE, load capacity, etc.

            But for towing a large weight like you do, we buy trucks. This is not only cheaper, but safer.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @wmba – Pickup classifications of 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton have become virtually meaningless and exist more out of tradition than for any other logical reason. There are truck cargo classes from class 1 up to class 8. Generally speaking Class 1 would be small/compact pickups, class 2a would be most 1/2 tons and class 2b would be some 1/2 tons and light 3/4 ton trucks.

      Buying a pickup can be complex if one actually tries to match a truck to their end usage. Many (most??) buyers are ignorant of capacity. The 936 lb payload you mention includes occupants in the cab. It gets more complex when one wants to hitch a trailer to the truck. You then need to be aware of gross combined (truck and trailer) weight as well as tongue weight (the weight the trailer tongue puts on the truck).

      Ram has the poorest 1/2 ton ratings. A full bling Laramie LongHorn crewcab Ecodiesel long box 4×4 used in one magazine test had a 460 lb capacity once tare(empty)weight was subtracted from GVW.

      GM has 1/2 ton crew 4×4’s with cargo ratings around 2,000 lb. Ford has a “max cargo” F150 crew 4×4 that tops out around 2,300. Those are 2014 ratings. I’m not sure what the ratings are for Ford’s 2015’s.

      An acceptable tongue weight tends to be 10-15% and using equalizer bars/hitch drops 20% off of weight. That 936 lb capacity Ram could tow a 7,000 lb trailer if the truck had 2 passengers weighing 376 lb.

      My current truck has a 1540 lb rating and I easily max that out with my family on board, my back country gear, camping gear and 12 ft aluminum boat on board.
      My truck is rated to tow 9,800 lb but 10% tongue weight means 980lb minus equalizer hitch 20% = 784 lb on the truck. That leaves 756 lb. I’d have to leave all of my tools and gear at home or load it onto the trailer if I planned to tow that size of a trailer with my family on board.
      I bought that truck with a 6k max in mind so I’d have roughly 1,060 lb of remaining cargo capacity which covers my family and normal tool/gear load.

      I’d be willing to bet $100 dollars that most personal use buyers have never thought things through when buying a truck or have never looked at the cargo rating affixed to their door panel.

      • 0 avatar
        Scoutdude

        Take a look at the recent test that Motor Trend did with the now very common 4dr 4×4 “1/2 ton” pickups. In that test to equalize it they used the same bed loads and trailer weights for all 3 despite the fact that they exceeded the mfg recommendations in some instances. They stated the reason that they did so was due to the fact that they surveyed current truck owners and found out that a huge percentage of them did not know the actual capacities of their trucks. So they hooked up a 7000lb trailer to a truck with a 5000lb tow rating and stuck 1000lbs in the bed of a truck that had less than 1000lbs of total rated capacity.

        I’ve seen way to many people who think that their truck has a “tow package” because someone fitted it with a hitch. Those same people think that their truck’s “rating” is equal to what is stamped on the hitch, ball or ball mount, often the highest of those ratings rather than the lowest as it should be.

        So I certainly wouldn’t bet against you because I’m certain that you are right.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          I’m certainly guilty of having “overloaded” my half-ton pick up trucks over the decades, both in bed-loads and in trailer-towing capacities.

          There were times, even recently, when a front-end loader filled up the bed of my truck with top soil, pea gravel or aggregate to where the @ss-end was sagging badly and the rear tires were nearly squashed.

          Not a pretty sight to be sure, but not enough to warrant buying a 3/4-ton or 1-ton pickup truck in its place. Just “go slow” instead. Sometimes locked in third gear all the way going up US82 into the mountains with a load.

          And as long as you don’t spring or bend the frame, the truck will handle it. I must say that my 2011 Tundra has been abused more than both my other trucks. Yet the Tundra continues to soldier on without any complaints or problems.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Scoutdude – car magazines tend to ignore that sort of thing most likely because they fear loosing access to the corporate press fleet and buffet table.

          I’m surprised that I don’t see more serious crashes in the summer due to overloaded trucks.

          If a large number of owners don’t know the capacities of their trucks they should make an attempt to educate the masses as opposed to encourage the practice of overloading by running tests with overloaded trucks.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Lou_BC,
            I tend to agree with Lou regarding the loading of vehicles, except the frequency.

            Most pickups I see have a really nice and shiny bed and only contain the driver.

            The only way out is to have the load capacities we have here in Australia for our pickups.

            But, then again “car” people are buying pickups for pleasure. They hardly work the pickups. Then when they do they are overloaded. This is still unsafe.

            Limits are set for a reason.

            This occurrence would be quite small in urban areas.

            Some are able to carry more than some HDs and tow more than some 1/2 ton pickups.

            But this will come at a cost, ride comfort.

            I do think ride comfort is not allowing the expansion of our pickup market.

            The most reasonable riding pickups we had are the Ford and Holden utes.

            But they only come in a single cab configuration, which isn’t what the largest part of the market want.

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            No the reason they ignored it was because their survey showed that the vast majority of “1/2 ton” owners either didn’t know the rating of their truck or chose to ignore it. I’d say that by hooking a 7000lb trailer to a vehicle that Ford says was rated for 5000lbs they were risking their access to the Ford press fleet. Of course the Ford won that portion of the test so I doubt that Ford would want to cut them off because of that. Since Ram was picked the overall winner it is unlikely that they would whine about the fact that their truck was overloaded by the 1000lbs. If fact they would have probably been more upset if they limited the amount in the bed to the wimpy payload rating less the weight of the driver. Ram would have likely really got pissed if they pointed out that tow rating is unrealistically high because the tongue weight of a trailer that heavy plus driver makes the truck exceed the payload rating.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Scoutdude – in actual fact it becomes a “win/win” situation for Ford.

            If the Ford got its ass handed to them they could say “you overloaded our truck… bla bla bla” but since it won they can say that a truck rated for 5k has the balls to kill a truck with more power/capacity etc.

            Regardless of the outcomes or the optics, it encourages people to do the same stupid stuff.

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            @Lou, yes it certainly does encourage the continuation of not paying attention to the vehicles tow rating.

            @Big Al, the Ram’s ridiculously low payload rating due in part to its car like rear suspension is certainly a big reason it has a relatively cushy ride. I do believe that is one of the reasons that its popularity has rising. Fact is many Americans like a V8 powered full frame vehicle and the only choices left that meet those requirements are pickups.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Scoutdude,
            I agree with your comment.

            That has been my observation of one of the main reasons for Ram’s rise in numbers.

            And a reason why I do believe the new Colorado will be a better success than some might expect. It’s called “refinement”.

            Many who now buy a pickup are in fact after a large “car/SUV”. They want the V8 or EcoBoost to give them carlike performance and refinement.

            They want the “cushy” ride for the comfort they are used to.

            But I do believe their are some who overload a pickup. But I’d bet there are just as many who overload cars, CUVs and the like.

            My mother has a Focus, if four guys my size of around 220-230lbs ride in it and you put 100lbs of stuff in the trunk with another 50 or so pounds of gas with the tiny brakes and much weaker chassis/suspension, I’d feel much safer in a Ram in this situation.

            But, again, there are many who buy a pickup to tow. They specifically go out and look at what they want the pickup for.

            I’ve seen more of these types of people over load than a normal person with the SUV pickup.

            I’m talking about the carpenter, farmer, etc. Have a look at how they work their pickups compared to the average Joe-Jane in suburbia.

    • 0 avatar
      krhodes1

      When was the last time you saw a pickup being weighed? That “official” payload capacity is pretty irrelevant in the real world. People just throw whatever into them and drive them. Usually works out just fine. It’s not a Cessna 172, it won’t fall out of the sky if it is a few hundred (or a thousand) pounds over weight.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        It’s a given, pickups will get occasionally overloaded. No harm, no foul. OEMs simply underrate them for legal protection, even if that exceeds SAE standards. But most pickups will rarely see an overload, or very often. Although physically, they can take much more than they’re rated for.

        I’ve done it, while scaling back, speed and stopping distance, but would only be fooling myself to do it often. A bigger truck would be the ticket at that point.

        And it’s always better to overbuy your truck (class), while avoiding problems, physical or otherwise. But that’s when car folks and greenweenies get their panties all in a bunch.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @krhodes1 – it is like playing Russian Roulette. Just because one gets away with it a few times doesn’t make it right.
        The vehicle inspectors and police in my area have been cracking down on overloaded 1/2 ton trucks.

        There is a shortage of vehicle inspectors (a friend of mine used to be one) and they don’t have the time to monitor commercial units let alone personal units.

        • 0 avatar
          krhodes1

          On a technical level, I agree with you. But the reality is that these trucks are wildly overbuilt for what the typical suburban warriors use them for. Thus the “official” payload ratings are all but meaningless. I like to think most people have enough common sense to not try to tow a 10K lb trailer daily up a mountain with a RAM Crew Cab 1/2 ton with that nominal 900lb capacity, but tossing 1K lb of pavers in the back along with 4 burly guys in the cab for the 5 mile trip home from Lowes once every three years is simply never going to be an issue. Some on here seem to think you will die a fiery death if you exceed the official ratings by a pound.

          Unless you have commercial plates, no cop anywhere in this part of the world is going to pay the slightest attention to you unless it is so wildly overloaded the tailgate is dragging on the ground. Maybe not even then.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @krhodes1 – A little bit over isn’t going to hurt anyone and most get away with a huge overload occasionally in the scenario you described.
            I view it no different than wearing a seat belt. You could never wear one and live to a ripe old age or the first time you fail to buckle up you die.
            I’ve worked as a Paramedic and in the Hospital setting all of my life and I’ve seen too many people loose at roulette.

            Pickups like any vehicle have design limits. Tires are often the weakest link.

            People need to educate themselves when buying any vehicle because for most people driving is the most complex and most dangerous task they will ever undertake.

            We take that fact for granted and I don’t want my life or the life of my family’s put at risk because someone says, “It’s okay. I live 5 miles away”.

            What if we were talking about a drunk driver saying that same thing?

          • 0 avatar
            krhodes1

            Drunk drivers don’t have built in safety margins. The reality is that the makers know that nobody has a set of scales for when they load their truck. The things are heavily overbuilt for their load ratings.

            Which is not surprising in our highly litigious society. My suspicion is that the biggest reason the load limits are what they are is lawyers, not engineers, with a dash of marketing thrown in on top – bigger trucks are even more profitable. Which explains why Big Al’s smaller trucks down under usually have MUCH higher load ratings than our big beasts up here.

            It’s no different than US vs. European tow ratings for cars. Somehow my car goes from 3400lbs over there to “Oh my God you will die if you tow with it at all” over here when it crosses the Atlantic Ocean. Saying that fully-decked out RAM 1500 can only safely carry <900lbs is just as silly.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @krhodes1,
            I do agree with your comment regarding tow limits on cars. In Australia a Nissan Pulsar (Versa?) can tow 2 200lbs.

            A Ford Falcon/Holden Commodore can tow 4 500lbs. Why not. I mean if a unitary constructed Grand Cherokee can tow 7 700lbs I don’t see the logic in having a low tow limit on cars.

            The US low tow limits might be another “technical” barrier protecting the US light truck segment. They are adding up!

            As well here, my BT50 has a GCM of 6 000kg, which as I explained put it smack in the middle of the US full size 1/2 ton pickups.

            For example, for the last several years or so we’ve had the “new” Colorado (global version). It has a payload on par and higher than some of your 3/4 ton and even a couple of 1 ton pickups at 3 080lbs. It can tow 7 800lbs.

            Considering the size of the US pickups they don’t have much capability. We even have mid size diesel Kia K2900s with a payload of 1.8 tonnes. This is over 4 300lbs from a vehicle the size of the new US short wheel base Colorado. They come with a 10′ tray (flat bed).

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @krhodes,
            Forgot to add;

            In Australia 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, in fact all trucks up to Heavy duty trucks that can carry 10s or thousands of pounds in their beds can only tow 4.5 tonnes or around 9 800lbs.

            So, in Australia a BT50 like I have is able to tow 7 800lbs and a US one ton HD can only tow 9 800lbs.

            Fifth wheel (articulated), dog and pig trailer I think have different limits.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            Your pulling some more numbers out of your ass.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @jrmason,
            A bit of a troll jrmason?

            A Ramistan lad?

            Should of thought so.

            I won’t even bother putting links to prove what I’m stating is accurate and correct.

            Find the facts for yourself.

            You see I didn’t put down the US, but it was apparent your “if it isn’t in the US it isn’t possible, incorrect or inferior” approach is what I latched onto.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @BAFO – If you’d replace your 1 ton 3500 or F-350 that you max out, with a Colorado for transporting the same loads or greater, you’re SMARTER than I thought!

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            “Your pulling some more numbers out of your ass.”

            Yep, just google “Al’s butt” you you’ll find a wealth of misinformation

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Lie2me,
            You’d possibly be one of the biggest [email protected] on this site.

            What a [email protected] loss you are.

            Really what was you comment in aid off?

            Have a close look at yourself. A [email protected] tosser.

            A troll? Really what a [email protected] wanker.

            I’m surprised TTAC has yet to remove you from here with your shit.

            Cry to Derek and get this comment removed.

            Why don’t you try and be constructive and at pose challenges instead of snide [email protected] bullshit retorts.

            Derek, have a good read at what this guy constantly directs at me.

            Oh, for the ones who complain about this comment. I’m par venu.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I’m still amused over the CO2-MPG thing. Odd how BAFO thinks that he has a right to lecture you about something that I had to explain to him over his grunting and hysterics.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            “So, in Australia a BT50 like I have is able to tow 7 800lbs and a US one ton HD can only tow 9 800lbs.”

            Maybe I need to go back to school,but I’m pretty sure that reads “US one ton HD” does it not?
            I’ll say it again (just repeating one of your own self observations from a previous post). Your pulling some numbers out of your ass. One ton pick ups can tow significantly heavier loads than that. Your comparing your light duty to any HD pick up is a joke, where your truck is maxed out, struggling to maintain speed on a steep mountain grade and getting whipped around in a heavy cross wind I’m cruising along with ease like its not even there.

            And you accuse me of being a troll…I’m starting to understand the animosity that Lie2me and PCH has for you.

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • SPPPP: I agree, there are at least 5 Michelin tires I would get before the Energy Saver A/S. How about the Cross...
  • MorrisGray: And hopefully a manual transmission!!!
  • Secret Hi5: Same – Buik!
  • sgeffe: It’s improved somewhat. For example, the 7th-Gen Accords (2003-2007) are starting to show rust on the rear...
  • Secret Hi5: IDGI, why would “…activities of a sexual or criminal nature” affect the range? Lemme guess –...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Staff

  • Contributors

  • Timothy Cain, Canada
  • Matthew Guy, Canada
  • Ronnie Schreiber, United States
  • Bozi Tatarevic, United States
  • Chris Tonn, United States
  • Corey Lewis, United States
  • Mark Baruth, United States