Chart Of The Day: Cars Vs. Light Trucks Over The Last Decade

Are HD pickups still excluded from CAFE standards? I don't follow the updates very close, but at one time they were excluded.

@mason There is a new medium truck standard that is separate from CAFE.

@Pch101 What does it include other than HD pickups? Are half tons included as well?

@mason http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/02/18/fact-sheet-opportunity-all-improving-fuel-efficiency-american-trucks-bol

@jrmason, Vehicles with a GVM of over 8 500lbs are regulated under a completely different system. This system is actually quite similar to how the EU manages their whole vehicle fleet. It is a better system than the CAFE footprint method. It uses weight to determine FE. From a business perspective this will is a fairer system. But, its according how far the FE is pushed as well.

No, light trucks have lower fuel economy standards than cars, under the premise that these vehicles can be used for utilitarian purposes rather than just personal transportation.

@BAFO - Luckily we live in a place offers up what most of the world would prefer or gravitate towards if given the choice. Which may be bigger vehicles, cheap fuel, guns and all the ammo you could want, or all the legal pot you could smoke. Or all of the above. I'm not saying it's the greatest place on earth, but at least we have that going for us.

@Lie2me I don't know why you bother. He's never going to figure this stuff out. Perhaps you should lie to him, instead.

@DiM, Yes, we finally agree, Australia has that! When are you immigrating to Australia?

@DiM, I'll when you move over here I'll help you decide on a vehicle. We have anything ever built in the world. I know you are disappointed a little about those US restrictions that don't allow you the freedom to buy a vehicle you want. Since, you are a Ford Apologist we can go out and look at some HDs or F-150s. I'll even help you get a job. Judging by your comments an unskilled job would be best for you. But, these jobs like a waitress or barman will get you $25ph. Or as a mature person flipping burgers at McDonalds as a casual will get you $23ph. We also get 4 weeks annual leave and accrue 3 months long service after 10 years (if you can last that long in a job). Just don't talk the crap like you submit on these blog sites. Or you'll be fired quick smart. Australians like people that have integrity and sincerity. I might even get you to buy a Mazda BT-50GT. A diesel, like a miniature HD!

@Pch101 The only "lie" he would believe is that he's right and everybody else is wrong and he's smarter then the rest of us Just typing that made me throw-up a little in my mouth

@Big Al from Oz "We also get 4 weeks annual leave and accrue 3 months long service after 10 years" I see that working for the government is just as cushy and benefit laden there as it is here

@Lie2me It is truly astounding how dumb he is. His efforts to "educate" are horribly ironic.

@Lie2all, Government???? Have a look at the work conditions at McDonalds in Australia. And yet we only pay $6.95 ($5.80USD) for a Big Mac Meal Deal. Boy, you do like making a fool of yourself with your uneducated comments......again. Use Google. Google is your friend! https://apply.mcdonalds.com.au/public/index.cfm?action=showPublicContent&assetCategoryId=2461 http://www.sdan.org.au/sites/sdan.org.au/files/resources/mcdonalds_xmas_2014.pdf http://www.sdan.org.au/sites/sdan.org.au/files/resources/mcdonalds_australia_enterprise_agreement_2013.pdf

@Lie2me I was talking about your cushy government job, why are you talking about McDonald's? Are you drinking and typing like that other drunk from down under RobertRyan?

@Lie2me I know, right? It ceases to be fun, though because he just starts babbling about something totally unrelated. I think he drinks, a lot

@Lie2all, It appears your comment alludes to the fact that what I'm receiving is a perk that other outside of government don't receive. If this wasn't your intention, then maybe you could do some kind of bridging course in English to gain entry into Elementary school. Also, the help DiM get a job flipping burger in Australia. It also highlights that McDonalds worker here are on a pretty good wicket as the Brits would say. So, I had to again expand your mind or in another word educate and mentor you. When I'm done you might reach the level of Psk101. That will be a monumental day. Sort of like you able to get an "F" in school.

@Lie2me, CO2 equates to FE. More CO2 equals more fuel burnt. A new concept for you.

@BAFO - The EU (an MeToo markets) uses similar dastardly targets, showing lots more leniency towards the FE/CO2 of larger vehicles. Instead of "footprint", theirs is based on weight. Same difference. But again, zigging anywhere US regs zag.

"Why do you insist on making so many dumb ass comments on this site." So that you can understand them, Mr. Plankton

@Big Al from Oz "@Lie2me, CO2 equates to FE. More CO2 equals more fuel burnt. A new concept for you." What does this have to do with truck classifications in the US that for the life of me can't understand why you are so obsessed with other then the fact you're a full blown fruitcake?

@DiM, So now its the EU's fault? If everyone one in the EU hits their thumbs with a hammer this will occur in the US? Boy, I thought this discussion was in relation to the US? The EU forced the US into the chicken tax or was it the Unions and Lyndon Johnson in the US? It might just be that the US isn't as competitive as some on this site try to project. Also, understand that CAFE's footprint is not the same as using vehicle weight. I might be incorrect about your job prospects in Australia. I wonder if we have an IQ test to allow immigrants in? You'd embarrass the US. You might be better off collecting those food stamps than come to Australia;) Come on, get real. You are talking like a child here. So, I must lower my standards to interact with you, like a child.

@Lie2me I read your snipquote. That's just hilarious. Read the exchange that follows. Notice how BAFO thinks that I'm lying when I explain to him that a European fleet-wide CO2 standard is effectively the same as a CAFE MPG standard: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/10/capsule-review-ram-1500-diesel/#comment-2239545

@Big Al from Oz "I might be incorrect about your job prospects in Australia. I wonder if we have an IQ test to allow immigrants in?" I doubt it, Allen, otherwise you would have been deported years ago

936 lbs payload represents a 17% improvement over the last Ram 1500 4x4 Crewcab that CandD had in a comparison test. That one was only good for 801 lbs. Both of them are weak sauce compared to something like a Corolla.

@CJinSD In the half-ton series of 4x4 pickup trucks, the bed-load is not really a consideration. So 801lbs or 936lbs isn't a deal breaker. Half-ton is considered a Light Duty pickup truck. If bed-load is a deciding factor then stepping up to a 3/4 ton or 1-ton is appropriate. Factor in variables such as Standard Cab, Ext or DoubleCab, and 4-door, and the 3/4-ton CrewCab Dually Longbed 4x4 would be a more prudent match. Each of these variants has a load-envelope. But people who actually need to carry passengers AND a bed-load will generally opt for a 1-ton Dually CrewCab LongBed 4x4, as a minimum. And in farm and ranch country, that's the pickup truck of choice. Anything less will have load limitations.

@wmba, Considering the low payload of the Ram on must wonder why. I do believe that FCA is aware of this. I'd expect a lot of money is invested into researching what the average Joe or Jane is looking for in a pickup. Then you must look at the remarkable recovery by Ram of late. This is suggesting to me that the average person looking for a pickup is first after carlike refinement, not payload and tow. It's a given that these vehicles will tow a significant trailer. Even a 6 000lb tow capability is far beyond what most would ever tow using a pickup. So, what this does prove is most pickups are used as cars and daily drivers. They have no desire to carry more than a Corolla, but yet want to pick up some fertiliser or nails from Lowes now and then, pick up the kids from school, drive to work, etc. Everyday car use. There is a need for a 'working' pickup as well. But I do think only 25% of pickups sold are used for any kind of work. Even then if you wanted to tow 7 000lbs everyday you would probably look at a diesel HD, or the soon to be released Cummins powered Titan. I have realised that many of the "pickup freaks" try to justify the pickup for it's tow and load ability. But as can also be witnessed is the huge increase in CUVs and the overall gradual decline of the full size pickup. People do want utility, but not as much as many assume to justify the full size pickup or even the mid size pickup. We use the same logic here in Australia to justify our pickups, as like in the US, they are empty and used to go to Bunnings (like Lowes), the wife collects the kids and go shopping and drive to work.

@wmba - Pickup classifications of 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton have become virtually meaningless and exist more out of tradition than for any other logical reason. There are truck cargo classes from class 1 up to class 8. Generally speaking Class 1 would be small/compact pickups, class 2a would be most 1/2 tons and class 2b would be some 1/2 tons and light 3/4 ton trucks. Buying a pickup can be complex if one actually tries to match a truck to their end usage. Many (most??) buyers are ignorant of capacity. The 936 lb payload you mention includes occupants in the cab. It gets more complex when one wants to hitch a trailer to the truck. You then need to be aware of gross combined (truck and trailer) weight as well as tongue weight (the weight the trailer tongue puts on the truck). Ram has the poorest 1/2 ton ratings. A full bling Laramie LongHorn crewcab Ecodiesel long box 4x4 used in one magazine test had a 460 lb capacity once tare(empty)weight was subtracted from GVW. GM has 1/2 ton crew 4x4's with cargo ratings around 2,000 lb. Ford has a "max cargo" F150 crew 4x4 that tops out around 2,300. Those are 2014 ratings. I'm not sure what the ratings are for Ford's 2015's. An acceptable tongue weight tends to be 10-15% and using equalizer bars/hitch drops 20% off of weight. That 936 lb capacity Ram could tow a 7,000 lb trailer if the truck had 2 passengers weighing 376 lb. My current truck has a 1540 lb rating and I easily max that out with my family on board, my back country gear, camping gear and 12 ft aluminum boat on board. My truck is rated to tow 9,800 lb but 10% tongue weight means 980lb minus equalizer hitch 20% = 784 lb on the truck. That leaves 756 lb. I'd have to leave all of my tools and gear at home or load it onto the trailer if I planned to tow that size of a trailer with my family on board. I bought that truck with a 6k max in mind so I'd have roughly 1,060 lb of remaining cargo capacity which covers my family and normal tool/gear load. I'd be willing to bet $100 dollars that most personal use buyers have never thought things through when buying a truck or have never looked at the cargo rating affixed to their door panel.

@BigAl - I think that Ram is playing on the fact that a large number of personal use 1/2 ton buyers are ignorant. I can say the same for most salesman since I've never been asked the end use for my pickup purchase. Ram should offer a max capacity 1500. The Ecodiesel is wasted in their 1500's. I see overloaded 1/2 ton pickups all summer long during RV season. A family of 4 on board with a box full of gear hitched to a 10k trailer. I rarely ever see max cargo F150's or GM's pulling those loads. You mentioned diesel HD's. Recreational 1 ton diesel buyers are just as stupid as many 1/2 ton buyers but for the opposite reasons. A 10k trailer is nothing to a 400hp/800lbft diesel tow monster. The drivers of the trucks act like they are driving empty which is just as dangerous as an overloaded 1/2 ton on 4 ply tires. (My last reply was eaten by the spambot)

@Lou_BC, As you are aware I've been watching the tit for tat stuff at PUTC. As I've stated in the past, I totally agree with your figures. But, I don't assume the largest part of the pickup buying consumers are that stupid. I do think refinement is the answer nowadays in selling a pickup. Hence, the V8s, EcoBoosts, etc. People want a "large car". They want large car refinement and performance. Hence, the "ignorant" view in relation to load and tow capabilities. They just aren't interested in this stuff like the more dedicated pickup guys. The Ram sales success really had me thinking as well. I have given this careful thought for some time and that's my conclusion. If I'm correct, we'll see a larger takeup of the Colorado than many would expect. The Colorado would make a good litmus for my theory. But, the Colorado is overall more capable than many full size Rams. Odd that, something I've been talking about for some time in relation to the "new" mid sizers. I do believe that pickups should start (be forced) to use class as a marketing point. It is far more accurate than the current 1/2, 3/4, 1 ton arrangement. But then the manufacturers would cry, as it would be harder to deceive. Even better regulations are set out if the companies want to continue using the 1/2, 3/4, 1 ton system. Make it simple. 1. 1/2 ton pickup (including mid size) must carry 1 500lbs and not exceed 2 500lbs, tow 7 000lbs and not exceed 10 000lbs. Have FE of more than 20mpg average. (irrespective of vehicle weight/footprint/fuel type). (Below the "1/2 ton class is the same as a motor car) 2. 3/4 ton pickup must carry 2 500lbs and not exceed 3 500lbs and tow 10 000lbs and not exceed 15 000lbs(irrespective of vehicle weight/footprint/fuel type). 3. 1 ton pickup must carry 3 500lbs and not exceed 4 500lbs and tow 15 000lbs and not exceed 20 000lbs(irrespective of vehicle weight/footprint/fuel type). 4. Anything above this is considered a "real" truck.

@Lou_BC, Forgot! 3/4 ton FE must be minimum 17.5mpg average (empty). 1 ton FE must be minimum 15mpg average (empty). This would make or force the manufacturers to really look at how much power is really necessary for a truck and reduce FE. A 250-300hp diesel will move a mountain. I remember as a kid my dad's friend owned a bush mill (timber). They had a Mack with only a 250hp diesel. That thing moved 30 ton of logs up mountains with little difficulty.

@Lou_BC Take a look at the recent test that Motor Trend did with the now very common 4dr 4x4 "1/2 ton" pickups. In that test to equalize it they used the same bed loads and trailer weights for all 3 despite the fact that they exceeded the mfg recommendations in some instances. They stated the reason that they did so was due to the fact that they surveyed current truck owners and found out that a huge percentage of them did not know the actual capacities of their trucks. So they hooked up a 7000lb trailer to a truck with a 5000lb tow rating and stuck 1000lbs in the bed of a truck that had less than 1000lbs of total rated capacity. I've seen way to many people who think that their truck has a "tow package" because someone fitted it with a hitch. Those same people think that their truck's "rating" is equal to what is stamped on the hitch, ball or ball mount, often the highest of those ratings rather than the lowest as it should be. So I certainly wouldn't bet against you because I'm certain that you are right.

When was the last time you saw a pickup being weighed? That "official" payload capacity is pretty irrelevant in the real world. People just throw whatever into them and drive them. Usually works out just fine. It's not a Cessna 172, it won't fall out of the sky if it is a few hundred (or a thousand) pounds over weight.

@Big Al from Oz "I remember as a kid my dad’s friend owned a bush mill (timber). They had a Mack with only a 250hp diesel. That thing moved 30 ton of logs up mountains with little difficulty." A 250hp 13 liter will have 3 times the torque as a 250hp 6-7 liter engine, not to mention 3 times the gearing. Kind of an apples to oranges comparison. I don't disagree that the horsepower wars between Ford and Ram have gotten a little carried away, but it should NEVER be up to the government to limit the manufacturers in aspects like this. They've got entirely too much leverage as it is.

@Scoutdude I'm certainly guilty of having "overloaded" my half-ton pick up trucks over the decades, both in bed-loads and in trailer-towing capacities. There were times, even recently, when a front-end loader filled up the bed of my truck with top soil, pea gravel or aggregate to where the @ss-end was sagging badly and the rear tires were nearly squashed. Not a pretty sight to be sure, but not enough to warrant buying a 3/4-ton or 1-ton pickup truck in its place. Just "go slow" instead. Sometimes locked in third gear all the way going up US82 into the mountains with a load. And as long as you don't spring or bend the frame, the truck will handle it. I must say that my 2011 Tundra has been abused more than both my other trucks. Yet the Tundra continues to soldier on without any complaints or problems.

@krhodes1 It's a given, pickups will get occasionally overloaded. No harm, no foul. OEMs simply underrate them for legal protection, even if that exceeds SAE standards. But most pickups will rarely see an overload, or very often. Although physically, they can take much more than they're rated for. I've done it, while scaling back, speed and stopping distance, but would only be fooling myself to do it often. A bigger truck would be the ticket at that point. And it's always better to overbuy your truck (class), while avoiding problems, physical or otherwise. But that's when car folks and greenweenies get their panties all in a bunch.

@Big Al - you had commented that 75% of truck buyers are buying car/SUV substitutes. If they buy a pickup like they buy those other vehicles then you are correct in the fact that comfort, ride, luxury etc. are prime determinants for purchase. Ford offers a multitude of trim packages and capacity packages so it makes sense that they are #1 in sales because they cover every angle. Ram has clued in to that fact but have chosen to cover the more lucrative "SUV with a balcony" market. The problem with that strategy is that eventually those buyers will leave the market for another fad or fantasy. Another risk is those people will realize that their truck does not have the capacity to legally do what they want to do. I said on PUTC that many buy on desire (want) as opposed to need. That purchasing method often hits the reality that what they bought actually does not cover need i.e. capacity. It is ironic and probably NOT a coincidence that the 2 biggest Ram fanboys on PUTC overload their trucks routinely and have rationalizations to cover it. It is also no coincidence that they are the most brand loyal. I'll consider Ram when durability and capacity are on par with the competition.

@Scoutdude - car magazines tend to ignore that sort of thing most likely because they fear loosing access to the corporate press fleet and buffet table. I'm surprised that I don't see more serious crashes in the summer due to overloaded trucks. If a large number of owners don't know the capacities of their trucks they should make an attempt to educate the masses as opposed to encourage the practice of overloading by running tests with overloaded trucks.

@krhodes1 - it is like playing Russian Roulette. Just because one gets away with it a few times doesn't make it right. The vehicle inspectors and police in my area have been cracking down on overloaded 1/2 ton trucks. There is a shortage of vehicle inspectors (a friend of mine used to be one) and they don't have the time to monitor commercial units let alone personal units.

@jrmason, I realize that the Mack engines were that large and had completely different characteristics than even a modern diesel. I was using that comment to prove a point. Read and comprehend the loads I had expected to move in the article linked to that comment. No where did I state that a HD had to move 80-90 000lbs in total.

@Big Al from Oz "I’ll consider Ram when durability and capacity are on par with the competition." You do realize Dodge/Ram is THE only of the big 3 that has a million mile club don't you? "Read and comprehend the loads I had expected to move in the article linked to that comment." I read it, and good luck with that. SRW have been beyond those weights for a while now. Why are you so adamant about more govt imposed limitations?

@Lou_BC, I tend to agree with Lou regarding the loading of vehicles, except the frequency. Most pickups I see have a really nice and shiny bed and only contain the driver. The only way out is to have the load capacities we have here in Australia for our pickups. But, then again "car" people are buying pickups for pleasure. They hardly work the pickups. Then when they do they are overloaded. This is still unsafe. Limits are set for a reason. This occurrence would be quite small in urban areas. Some are able to carry more than some HDs and tow more than some 1/2 ton pickups. But this will come at a cost, ride comfort. I do think ride comfort is not allowing the expansion of our pickup market. The most reasonable riding pickups we had are the Ford and Holden utes. But they only come in a single cab configuration, which isn't what the largest part of the market want.

@jrmason, I wouldn't call this a bad regulation. This will protect the consumer, more than the manufacturer. I'm more for the protection of the consumer than the manufacturer. Manufacturers, even US vehicle manufacturers would sell death traps to the consumer if they could get away with it. Regulations tend to "legalise" how standards are used and managed. This would also protect the consumer. It would be no different than buying a quart of milk. The product will have a standard measure against it. Even trucks using roads must comply to width, length, height, load per axle, etc. So, the next time you buy a quart of milk be glad there are standards and regulation in place to ensure you are getting your quart of milk. My idea would also create a more flexible arrangement for the design of pickups. Imagine, if you design a midsizer to carry 2 501lbs and tow 10 001lbs, you could have a V8 in it. But the FE could be adjusted. I plucked those FE number out of my ass.

@Big Al from Oz "Imagine, if you design a midsizer to carry 2 501lbs and tow 10 001lbs, you could have a V8 in it." They do,its called a half ton truck and IMO theyre over loaded at that weight. No way would I want a "mid sizer" (assuming you mean smaller) to tow that. I haul 10-15k and occasionally up to 18k several thousand miles a year and do so with an HD diesel pick up. You'll never sell me on a light tow vehicle, when the tail wags the dog it makes my arse pucker. I still don't see the benefit to the consumer by limiting the performance of a vehicle, but to each his own.

@jrmason, You are correct. But, again what you stated can be achieved with my idea plus a lot more. Re-read my comment and comprehend what could occur, not what is occurring now. It seems too many people who comment on this site are locked in the 1950s. This is the 21st century. Like I stated look at the flexibility my idea offers. There is more to the world than "having a 1/2 ton". My idea will remove the requirement for expensive tech. Make pickups more affordable and remove the ambiguous marketing from the manufacturers. Flexibility. This would create a better pickup market in the US.

@Big Al from Oz That's a great idea, Allen, perhaps someone in your country should make such a truck. I'm sorry, I forgot you killed your automobile industry there and now you're dependent on whatever the rest of the world thinks you should drive, too bad. No utes for you, but we'll drive our 1/2 tons forever. Would you like one of ours? You can for about what a small three bedroom house costs

@Big Al from Oz Explain to me how a "modern" "light" vehicle can safely tow 10k lbs (or more) please. I suppose my 50s way of thinking is too simplistic to understand your logic. In my world (however outdated it may be), you need two things to make a tow rig safe: mass and stability (dual rear wheels). Those along with some common sense has kept me safe for many years, and it got me and my wedge trailer with 2 cars safely home Friday night in a horrendous blizzard.

@Lie2me, There is a gentleman from OZ who ordered a 14 Ram 3500/CTD. He purchased it in Austin, TX, had it transported to Long Beach, CA where it was loaded on a boat and shipped to Sydney, Australia. It was then converted to RHD, he picked it up and drove another 2500 miles home. According to him, the truck traveled 16k miles from the dealer to his doorstep and the conversion alone cost $33,000 USD. He never divulged what the shipping cost, but I'm guessing you could add another $10k (or more). He essentially bought 2 trucks for what he's got invested in it. Unbelievable.

@Big Al from Oz Yes, I'm sure it cost the gentleman from Oz every bit of that. I'm also aware that a HD or just a "glamor" truck costs about $150K down under once the repressive Australia taxes are paid and their silly RHD requirements are met. You now understand the real motivation of our Aussie commenters. We can have cheaply what many there desperately want and need, but can't afford, a real truck. So, their logic seems to be if they can't have them then no one should have them

@Lou_BC No the reason they ignored it was because their survey showed that the vast majority of "1/2 ton" owners either didn't know the rating of their truck or chose to ignore it. I'd say that by hooking a 7000lb trailer to a vehicle that Ford says was rated for 5000lbs they were risking their access to the Ford press fleet. Of course the Ford won that portion of the test so I doubt that Ford would want to cut them off because of that. Since Ram was picked the overall winner it is unlikely that they would whine about the fact that their truck was overloaded by the 1000lbs. If fact they would have probably been more upset if they limited the amount in the bed to the wimpy payload rating less the weight of the driver. Ram would have likely really got pissed if they pointed out that tow rating is unrealistically high because the tongue weight of a trailer that heavy plus driver makes the truck exceed the payload rating.

@Lou_BC On a technical level, I agree with you. But the reality is that these trucks are wildly overbuilt for what the typical suburban warriors use them for. Thus the "official" payload ratings are all but meaningless. I like to think most people have enough common sense to not try to tow a 10K lb trailer daily up a mountain with a RAM Crew Cab 1/2 ton with that nominal 900lb capacity, but tossing 1K lb of pavers in the back along with 4 burly guys in the cab for the 5 mile trip home from Lowes once every three years is simply never going to be an issue. Some on here seem to think you will die a fiery death if you exceed the official ratings by a pound. Unless you have commercial plates, no cop anywhere in this part of the world is going to pay the slightest attention to you unless it is so wildly overloaded the tailgate is dragging on the ground. Maybe not even then.

@jrmason - maybe a million miles on Cummins engine but those million milers do not list repairs. If one lives in the southern USA and travels mostly highway and paved roads one could stand a chance of getting to a million miles. Case in point, my brother works for a large forest resource company and has driven every brand of pickup in his career. Most do not last beyond 160,000 km or 100,000 miles. He puts that mileage on his trucks mostly on gravel roads and often in -45C weather over 2-3 years. His trucks tend to get sold at "as is where is" auctions with a you buy you tow away policy. Ram has the worst durability rating according to JD Power, Vincentric, and Consumer Reports.

@krhodes1 - A little bit over isn't going to hurt anyone and most get away with a huge overload occasionally in the scenario you described. I view it no different than wearing a seat belt. You could never wear one and live to a ripe old age or the first time you fail to buckle up you die. I've worked as a Paramedic and in the Hospital setting all of my life and I've seen too many people loose at roulette. Pickups like any vehicle have design limits. Tires are often the weakest link. People need to educate themselves when buying any vehicle because for most people driving is the most complex and most dangerous task they will ever undertake. We take that fact for granted and I don't want my life or the life of my family's put at risk because someone says, "It's okay. I live 5 miles away". What if we were talking about a drunk driver saying that same thing?

@Lie2me, Nope, why have those jobs when Thai's can do it cheaper. We just engineer and design them. It's more value adding from our end.

@jrmason, You seem to be a very insular North American, most probably from the US, judging by your lack of knowledge and inability to look at the future. These trucks you speak of almost exist already. Your half ton pickups are Class 2. Their GCM ranges roughly from 5 000kg to 7 000kg. Our midsizers already have a 6 000kg GCM. They sort of sit in the middle of your collection of Class 2, 1/2 ton pickups. You should look outside of the US and see what is already on offer. Being so insular a backward looking isn't for a nation. Open your mind up. My idea removes the CAFE footprint, yet it still place FE targets, increase flexibility into pickup design and save money.

@Big Al from Oz Obviously there will be a substantial number of repairs over the course of a million miles. Another obvious is that for so many people to reach such a milestone, the cost per mile is low enough that it is worthwhile to make the repairs vs buy a new pick up. For these trucks to be recognized they have to have the mileage verified by a dealer with a witech scan. Do a national search of HD pickups, you will routinely find Dodges with 350k+ miles still commanding a premium. The same search will net you very few Fords or GMs with similar mileage. There is good reason for this, the vast majority of the countries hot shotters know what holds up and what doesn't and they buy what works. You shouldn't lean so heavy on bs reports, most of them aren't worth the TP I wipe my arse with in the morning.

@Big Al from Oz Al, Yes I'm American. Proud of it. You can view me any which way that suits you, I'm OK with that. My country may have its share of faults but I've been around the world enough to know its still the greatest country on earth, and by far has the greatest trucks on earth. I don't spend that much time day dreaming about what other countries have because what I have in my shop works great. You can keep your compact ute with a V8 or whatever it is that's superior in your eyes, and I'll keep my diesel belching rigs with wide hips. They make me more than enough money to pay their way around here.

@jrmason, you don't have to make excuses for being an American to the Big Dufus from Oz, who obsessive jealousy of anything American taints his every comment.

@krhodes1 Drunk drivers don't have built in safety margins. The reality is that the makers know that nobody has a set of scales for when they load their truck. The things are heavily overbuilt for their load ratings. Which is not surprising in our highly litigious society. My suspicion is that the biggest reason the load limits are what they are is lawyers, not engineers, with a dash of marketing thrown in on top - bigger trucks are even more profitable. Which explains why Big Al's smaller trucks down under usually have MUCH higher load ratings than our big beasts up here. It's no different than US vs. European tow ratings for cars. Somehow my car goes from 3400lbs over there to "Oh my God you will die if you tow with it at all" over here when it crosses the Atlantic Ocean. Saying that fully-decked out RAM 1500 can only safely carry

@jrmason, I glad your proud to be an American like I am. But, you seem to dwell on what has been achieved and not on what can be achieved. Look beyond what exist to what could exist. You seem to be focused on only what has occurred in the US and not see what can or could occur in the US. The US, like Australia, Canada and many other nations have so many opportunities to grasp. Don't be so insular. As for what you drive is great. For my purposes I don't require a large pickup. I actually don't require any pickup, but I chose one. If I ever move back to the US I don't know what I would drive. As I do think a full size wouldn't suffice if I want to off road. But, then again off roading in the US is different to what we generally do off roading. We tend to tour and camp for extended periods often. So, expeditionary off roading is what we do. This leaves many gasoline and larger pickups out of the question as a suitable vehicle, due to their low FE, load capacity, etc. But for towing a large weight like you do, we buy trucks. This is not only cheaper, but safer.

@Scoutdude - in actual fact it becomes a "win/win" situation for Ford. If the Ford got its ass handed to them they could say "you overloaded our truck... bla bla bla" but since it won they can say that a truck rated for 5k has the balls to kill a truck with more power/capacity etc. Regardless of the outcomes or the optics, it encourages people to do the same stupid stuff.

@krhodes1, I do agree with your comment regarding tow limits on cars. In Australia a Nissan Pulsar (Versa?) can tow 2 200lbs. A Ford Falcon/Holden Commodore can tow 4 500lbs. Why not. I mean if a unitary constructed Grand Cherokee can tow 7 700lbs I don't see the logic in having a low tow limit on cars. The US low tow limits might be another "technical" barrier protecting the US light truck segment. They are adding up! As well here, my BT50 has a GCM of 6 000kg, which as I explained put it smack in the middle of the US full size 1/2 ton pickups. For example, for the last several years or so we've had the "new" Colorado (global version). It has a payload on par and higher than some of your 3/4 ton and even a couple of 1 ton pickups at 3 080lbs. It can tow 7 800lbs. Considering the size of the US pickups they don't have much capability. We even have mid size diesel Kia K2900s with a payload of 1.8 tonnes. This is over 4 300lbs from a vehicle the size of the new US short wheel base Colorado. They come with a 10' tray (flat bed).

@krhodes, Forgot to add; In Australia 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, in fact all trucks up to Heavy duty trucks that can carry 10s or thousands of pounds in their beds can only tow 4.5 tonnes or around 9 800lbs. So, in Australia a BT50 like I have is able to tow 7 800lbs and a US one ton HD can only tow 9 800lbs. Fifth wheel (articulated), dog and pig trailer I think have different limits.

@krhodes1 Your pulling some more numbers out of your ass.

@jrmason, A bit of a troll jrmason? A Ramistan lad? Should of thought so. I won't even bother putting links to prove what I'm stating is accurate and correct. Find the facts for yourself. You see I didn't put down the US, but it was apparent your "if it isn't in the US it isn't possible, incorrect or inferior" approach is what I latched onto.

@BAFO - If you'd replace your 1 ton 3500 or F-350 that you max out, with a Colorado for transporting the same loads or greater, you're SMARTER than I thought!

@Lou, yes it certainly does encourage the continuation of not paying attention to the vehicles tow rating. @Big Al, the Ram's ridiculously low payload rating due in part to its car like rear suspension is certainly a big reason it has a relatively cushy ride. I do believe that is one of the reasons that its popularity has rising. Fact is many Americans like a V8 powered full frame vehicle and the only choices left that meet those requirements are pickups.

@Scoutdude, I agree with your comment. That has been my observation of one of the main reasons for Ram's rise in numbers. And a reason why I do believe the new Colorado will be a better success than some might expect. It's called "refinement". Many who now buy a pickup are in fact after a large "car/SUV". They want the V8 or EcoBoost to give them carlike performance and refinement. They want the "cushy" ride for the comfort they are used to. But I do believe their are some who overload a pickup. But I'd bet there are just as many who overload cars, CUVs and the like. My mother has a Focus, if four guys my size of around 220-230lbs ride in it and you put 100lbs of stuff in the trunk with another 50 or so pounds of gas with the tiny brakes and much weaker chassis/suspension, I'd feel much safer in a Ram in this situation. But, again, there are many who buy a pickup to tow. They specifically go out and look at what they want the pickup for. I've seen more of these types of people over load than a normal person with the SUV pickup. I'm talking about the carpenter, farmer, etc. Have a look at how they work their pickups compared to the average Joe-Jane in suburbia.

@krhodes1 "Your pulling some more numbers out of your ass." Yep, just google "Al's butt" you you'll find a wealth of misinformation

@Lie2me, You'd possibly be one of the biggest f@ckwits on this site. What a F@cking loss you are. Really what was you comment in aid off? Have a close look at yourself. A f@cking tosser. A troll? Really what a F@cking wanker. I'm surprised TTAC has yet to remove you from here with your shit. Cry to Derek and get this comment removed. Why don't you try and be constructive and at pose challenges instead of snide f@cking bullshit retorts. Derek, have a good read at what this guy constantly directs at me. Oh, for the ones who complain about this comment. I'm par venu.

@krhodes1 I'm still amused over the CO2-MPG thing. Odd how BAFO thinks that he has a right to lecture you about something that I had to explain to him over his grunting and hysterics.