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On Wednesday, Kia confirmed to it’s American dealers that they will be getting a version of the full sized rear wheel drive flagship sedan Kia sells as the K9 in Korea and as the Quoris in other markets. The sedan will be called the K900 in North America and it will be the first RWD sedan that Kia has sold in the U.S.
The K900 will feature advanced safety technologies, luxury features and over 400 horsepower. Automotive News reports that dealers who attended Kia’s national dealer meeting in Las Vegas were told that the overall package will be sized to compete with the BMW 7 Series, while it will be priced more like a 5 Series car from the Bavarian luxury marque, with a base MSRP expected to be between $50,000 and $70,000. Don Hobden, chairman of Kia’s national dealer council, said the K900 will arrive at dealer showrooms in early 2014. Kia will be promoting the new luxury car with ads during the 2014 Super Bowl, happy with the results from previous years of ads during the American football championship broadcast.
Dealers were told that Kia expects to sell about 5,000 K900 units in 2014. The car shares a platform with the Equus, Hyundai’s flagship sedan. The sales projection is a bit more optimistic than the two to three thousand Equus units that Hyundai originally expected in its first year of sales in the U.S. The introduction of the K900 will follow the introduction of Kia’s current most expensive car, the Cadenza, by less than a year, which speaks to how seriously Kia wants to be seen as a seller of premium, as opposed to cheap, cars.
Ken Phillips, who owns Kia dealerships in Tacoma, Washington and in the greater Los Angeles area, predicted that the car will change consumers’ image of Kia, “When people see it, Kia will quit being the butt of the joke because this is an amazing machine. It’s going to be quite an amazing car. That’s a car that when you get the right person in the showroom and they get behind the wheel, they’re going to want to take it home.”
Phillips revealed that the K900 will offer a 290 hp 3.8 L V6 and a 420 hp V8 from Hyundai-Kia’s Tau family of engines, backed by an 8 speed automatic transmission that is already being used in some markets. Other features will be adaptive LED headlights, adaptive cruise control, a premium audio system with 17 speakers, and cruising speed, turn-by-turn directions and other information made available to the driver via a heads-up display.
When the K900 arrives, the launch will start at a limited number of dealers on the West Coast, in Florida and in the Northeast and the K900 may not be sold at all Kia stores . As with the Hyundai Equus, dealers will have to have special showroom displays and their personnel will have to undergo special customer service training before Kia will let them sell the flagship. “There was a distinct message that their expectation is that it won’t go to all Kia stores,” Hobden said. “It will be strategic.” One reason for limiting the number of dealers is that Kia wants to be sure that stores that sell the premium sedan will have sufficient inventory. Though Kia has had strong sales in the U.S., inventory and supply issues have been an issue.
The 290 HP motor is more likely to be the 3.3 and not the 3.8 (unless they de-tuned it).
Also, avoiding the K9 name and all of the inevitable dog jokes was probably a good move.
They should just call it “The Cheapest BMW-clone ever”
BMW clone? It looks like an Infiniti.
BMW front, Lexus Back.
I think the overall design – back and side looks better than Hyundai equivalent. I do not like the front clip …the Hyundai looks better
But it’s attractive – I’m sure they weren’t looking a BM double eeew.
No, that would be the Pontiac G8.
And from the side, the Lexus GS and LS have more of the Hofmeister kinked greenhouse.
The K900 is far from being a BMW clone. Much is different, including the styling, the engine technology, and the pricing philosophy.
The BMW engine is more sophisticated with variable valve lift in addition to the Kia’s variable valve timing. Combined with twin turbochargers in the V8 engine valley, the BMW’s engine has more mid-range power and more peak power. The Kia does not require premium fuel, may be quieter (awaiting road test results on this) and has vastly different styling, along with longer wheelbase in the most comparably priced models. I’ve been in the BMW, bought a Mercedes instead, and would likely prefer the Kia if I were shopping today. Most notable is the German pricing disease of charging for features that should be standard on modern high priced cars.
anyone notice all of these cars look like the Lexus LS460 now?
The LS460 had a greenhouse with the Hofmeister kink and a toned down “Bangle butt” rear.
The current 7 Series is a toned down version of the Bangle 7 which is why the 2 look so similar from the side and rear.
And the refreshed LS460’s rear actually looks similar to the Quoris when it comes to the shape of the taillights and the chrome trim.
Can someone explain the Kia-Hyundai relationship to me? It’s my understanding that Hyundai owns Kia, or some large chunk of Kia, and pretty much every Kia car is based on a Hyundai platform (or perhaps “both Kia and Hyundai cars are based on the same platform”). But they’re positioned to compete with each other directly, or at least pretend to do so? What’s the strategy here?
I don’t get it, I expected one of them to be the “low-end” and one to be the “high-end” by now, like Chevy and Buick. Or am I completely misreading the whole situation?
I think that’s pretty much it. Hyundai owns Kia and all Kia cars are Hyundais with different sheetmetal. Suspension, engine and all major systems are the same. Some would have you believe that Kia are more aggressively tuned than Hyundais, more sportslike, but I haven’t really seen proof of that.
Now, waht I’ll say next is pure conjuncture, but it’s at least plausible. I think in the begining the idea was probably to make Kia a cheaper Hyundai alternative. But then Hyundai hired the BMW design guy and Kia hired the Audi design guy. Before even Hyundai realized it, the ex-Audi guy was churning out better designs than the one over at the mothership. The market reacted very positively to the new Kia designs and Hyundai realized they didn’t have to lower the price to sell. BTW, in Brazil, Kias are usually more expensive than Hyundais.
“Through a convoluted set of financial arrangements, Hyundai and Kia are 32.8% joined at the hip and the result is greater than the sum of its parts. The reason seems to be “internal” competition with rumors of Kia/Hyundai in-fighting constantly swirling. Apparently each believes that they should be king of the hill. This means we can’t talk about the 2014 Forte without talking about the Hyundai Elantra. This is not a case of Chevy/Buick/Oldsmobile badge engineering. Kia and Hyundai have access to the same platform, engine and other parts bins but they operate on their own development cycles. What that means to you is: these brothers from a different mother exist in different generations. The 2006-2010 Elantra was the cousin to the 2009-2013 Forte meaning the Kia was a “generation behind”. That’s changed for 2014 with the Forte being the new kid on the block and while the related Elantra won’t land until the 2015 model year at the soonest.”
This explanation of the relationship is from Alex’s Forte review.
I think of Hyundai and Kia being like rival half-brothers. Simultaneously being more closely related and competitive than the big Ford and little Mazda cousins ever were, but not as closely related as the GM brand siblings.
Ah, I get it. Sort of like back in the sixties, when the different GM divisions competed and the consumer (and GM) won. I think I like it.
Pretty good analogy Truckducken. It remains to be seen how long Hyndai will allow it to go on. Like in GM, one is always preferred and like we say in portuguese, the rope always on the weakest one’s side.
“Sort of like back in the sixties, when the different GM divisions competed and the consumer (and GM) won.”
A lot like that. Unlike Hyundai-Kia the GM brands were all 100% owned by the same company. But, unlike now, there was very strong brand autonomy at GM, making them almost separate companies.
Everyone had to have a muscle car and a Brougham. That was probably good for consumer, in terms of price competition between local dealerships and the ability to have any nose you want on your muscle car, but it was definitely not great for GM.
At least Hyundai-Kia is only two brands building the same car, not six, like GM in starting in the ’60s. We’ll see how it works out for Hyundai-Kia to maintain two full, almost identical car lines, both in terms of development/manufacturing costs and dealer experience. Is the Kia dealer going to have a K900 (Robocop’s police dog?) loaner in stock when a K900 is in for repair, or is the owner going to get a Soul? Hopefully the answer isn’t that there is an Enterprize down the street.
Kias, particularly the SX trim, are more aggressively tuned than the SE trim for Hyundais.
While Hyundai owns a minority (but controlling) share of Kia, they are direct competitors.
It’s similar to the relationship Ford and Mazda had when Ford owned a similar share of Mazda – where the 2 would share platforms and powertrains but compete against each other in the market.
For certain markets, the same can be said for Nissan and Renault.
While Hyundai and Kia do share platforms and powertrains (the powertrains can differ – Kia offers a 2.0 in the Forte, Hyundai does not on the Elantra; Kia offers a V6 on the Sorento, Hyundai does not on the Santa Fe Sport), they develop their own telematics/infotainment systems, AWD systems, etc. – so there are differences aside from the sheetmetal and interiors.
To explain easier, It would be like Ford owning stock in GM and allowing GM to use Ford’s resource to save R/D costs.
In the brutal hazing of developing countries in what was called the “East-Asian financial crisis” circa 1997, many mid-sized corporations were forced(executive ordered?) to merge and acquire each other since the gov’t itself didn’t have the money or stability to buy them out(ex. similar to Ford, GM bailout)and give them more loans. Hyundai and Kia are TWO COMPLETELY INDEPENDANT COMPANIES that are owned by different people, run by different people with a different mission and philosophy.
Put it simple if Ford was Hyundai and Chevorlet being KIA,
Uncle sam tells Ford to buy Chevy’s stock to keep them alive(instead of letting vultures picking off the dead eg. GM Daewoo), allows Chevy to share parts bin(reduce R/D costs) from Ford, and then let them use that money to gamble/innovate.
Other companies that were also bought out at the time was Daewoo which became GM Daewoo(GM is considered domestic in Korea BAM!)
why? why buy this? unless this thing costs half the price of a Lexus LS, what would be the rationale to buy? It certainly won’t be dealer service judging from my last experience with Hyundai service (admittedly, a few years ago).
“why? why buy this?”
It’s a lot of car for the money.
Also, some people want a really nice car but for various reasons don’t want a Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, etc. Maybe they don’t want their idiot inlaws hitting them up for money, they don’t want their employees asking for a raise, they don’t want their competators to know well they are doing, etc.
The V8 version will likely sell for close to $70K MSRP. How much value could KIA really be delivering for this sum?
Yikes.
Nothing says (that you’ve been mentally) Killed In Action like rolling in a 70k K9.
+1
“Nothing says (that you’ve been mentally) Killed In Action like rolling in a 70k K9.”
Worse than a 2001 Towncar Cartier Edition that had an inflation adjusted MSRP of $64,517?
1st, the Equus which this is based upon, hasn’t exactly lit it up for Hyundai, whether by sales or reviews (CR said to save $$$ and buy a Genesis Sedan, if you must Hyundai, and other reviews of the Equus have been less than stellar).
2nd, how pathetic is it when “a guy who owns some KIA dealerships in Tacoma & L.A.” plays PR hype point man selling the virtues of the Bavarian slaying KIA K9?:
. “Ken Phillips, who owns Kia dealerships in Tacoma, Washington and in the greater Los Angeles area, predicted that the car will change consumers’ image of Kia, “When people see it, Kia will quit being the butt of the joke because this is an amazing machine. It’s going to be quite an amazing car. That’s a car that when you get the right person in the showroom and they get behind the wheel, they’re going to want to take it home.”
We’ll see what the transaction prices look like on K900, but I doubt anyone in 2001 paid that figure for a Town Car even for the top trim Cartier. The other side of it was in 2001 Lincoln was still somewhat prestigious, at least in the mind of some people. Kia still has some baggage associated with it.
I tend to agree with JMO. The market is a niche but a real niche.
There are wealthy people, especially in smaller towns, who really don’t like showing off their success. And with good reasons: their friends, employees, and their kid’s friends are are all middle class. Also these people do throw on the highway miles to get to the nearest airport.
There’s another segment of people that want a luxury car and don’t give a crap about brand, or see “Brand” as a useless additional expense, like another jewel-encrusted iphone branded by Prada.
BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Infinity are not really luxury brands anyways. They’re ubiquitous, everyone has one and no-one cares. So the next step up, at least in some peoples minds, would be a Bentley or equivalent, which is much more money and less suited to day-to-day highway driving.
Finally, it does Kia well for their image, for their production lines to get features that will eventually be worked into normal cars (HID/radar/etc).
The rest of us brand snobs need not apply.
“There are wealthy people, especially in smaller towns, who really don’t like showing off their success.”
Hasn’t their official car been a loaded Suburban since 1933?
I agree with racer-esq. The small town wealthy folk don’t buy an off-brand luxury car. They buy a vehicle with a mainline badge and option it to the gills. A top of the line Suburban sitting beside a base model a the local little league baseball field doesn’t look that much different than the double cab Silverado that your normal middle class dad drives, but there is quite a difference in features and dollars.
The guys buying the Kia K900 will be the people that, if they had the money, would buy a BMW, Merc, Audi, or Lexus instead. They are so close to the real luxury image that they can taste it, but they can’t pull the trigger, so they go for the bargain. It is the large luxury sedan they can afford. They are the same people that put a minimum square footage and granite countertops as “must haves” when they buy a house.
To get the same grace, space and pace in an Audi, Mercedes, Lexus or BMW would cost +100k.
lol at “KIA” and “grace” in the same sentence.
This was their argument with the $40K cadenza: “it’s an ES350, but for somewhat less money!”
No it doesn’t. A CPO used Lexus LS is more car for the money than a new Kia K900. Neither one is exciting, but the Lexus has a better badge and known good reliability. A used BMW kicks butt and takes names in terms of presence and badge appeal vs. money in this segment.
Not really. The 7 starts at $74k, and I assume the A8, S, LS, and XJ start within a few thousand of that price (how do you use “grace, space, and pace” without including Jaguar?).
Besides the cost inaccuracy, you are assuming the Kia will drive and ride as well as the other large luxury cars. Based on other Kia reviews, that sounds like a longshot.
“BMW kicks butt and takes names in terms of presence and badge appeal ”
That’s exactly what some people don’t want.
“The 7 starts at $74k, and I assume the A8, S, LS, and XJ start within a few thousand of that price… you are assuming the Kia will drive and ride as well as the other large luxury cars. Based on other Kia reviews…”
No, based on the Equus reviews (which shares a platform with the Kia) it will do 95% of what an S,7, A8 will do for 70% of the money.
I have absolutely no irrational biases or axes to grind with Korean brand vehicles, and with that caveat, can honestly state that I would strongly prefer a 2006 Lexus LS430 with 75,000 miles on it to this KIA K9000 or its cousin, the Hyundai Equus, even if the used Lexus cost as much (but they can be had for 25k to 30k of that vintage and mileage).
My Uncle has a LS430 and IMO it’s a better, far more reliable MB S Class. For what it’s worth, given my tastes, I think Lexus took a step backwards with both the LS460 and their ES350 (vs the ES330).
I haven’t driven the K9000, obviously, but after many experiences with Korean vehicles, including the Genesis Sedan, I’d be plainly shocked if the suspension setup wasn’t a big let down out of the box, or quickly devolved into a less than stellar one.
I can honestly state that I literally prefer the ride quality of vehicles costing half as much as the Genesis Sedan or Veracruz to either of these Lexus wannabes.
I’m not stating the Hyundais or KIAs are bad vehicles, or without comparative advantage to certain competitors, or that they’re not a god choice for some people; I am stating that on a prioritized list, in order of importance, ride quality is right at the top along with reliability, and the Koreans for whatever reason still lag noticeably when it comes to ride quality dynamics.
The Audi A7 starts at $64,500. Without a doubt this Kia is built better. But who cares if you are leasing. And the Audi looks 1000 times better. Plus you get to go to an Audi dealership to get the car serviced instead of a Kia dealership (admittedly you will be going to the dealership more often with the Audi, but they’ll also have a loaner similar to your car).
No, the V8 version of the K900 will not be more expensive than the Equus Ultimate.
The K900 is a “tweener” in size btwn the new Genesis sedan and the Equus and will also be so in price.
The V6 K900 will likely start a little higher than the next gen Genesis sedan (so in the low $50k range) and will top off below the $68k price for the Equus Ultimate.
And it doesn’t need to be half the price of the LS460, just $10k+ or so less, about the price of what a separate luxury brand and dealer network would cost per vehicle.
And oh, all the reviews state that the Kia Cadenza has a better ride than the Toyota Avalon, as well as the Lexus ES.
Same goes for the new Forte over its competitors, including the Civic.
“Maybe they don’t want their idiot inlaws hitting them up for money, they don’t want their employees asking for a raise, they don’t want their competators to know well they are doing, etc.”
Buying a maybe $55K transaction price car that people will Google and think costs $70K (based on MSRP) is not a great way to hide your wealth.
If the boss/rich relative buys a Kia people are going to Google it to see what the hell is going on.
Most people aren’t car nuts and are going to see a Kia badge and be done.
I don’t really buy into it either. I’m sure it’ll be a fine car, but it’s got nothing in particular going for it, and the Kia brand name is a handicap in the eyes of most.
Who shopping for a 60k+ car is going to feel comfortable doing so at the flailing arm tube man, “you got a pulse and a job, you drive”, “99 DOLLARS A MONTH” emporium?
I give them props for trying to field a credible car, but you can’t flip brand reputation overnight and jumping head long into full size luxury with an economy brand isn’t a recipe for great success.
K900? Sounds like a Kenworth big rig.
Yeah, “K900” just doesnt sound like a luxurious top shelf automobile. More like a model of U-boat.
Dive, dive, dive!
Apparently the K900 is a Lenovo cell phone, a Kenworth truck, and probably some other non-automotive thing. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was also a U-boat.
Technically U-boat classes were called “types” and were named with Roman numerals.
At least it’s not the Widowmaker.
Sound like a real dog! Didn’t anybody translate the English meaning of “K9”? What did the Koreans say to that? “Sounds tasty”?
Personally, I’m waiting for the next model, the K900 and one. I’ll take the Disney edition , with the black spotted white upholstery!
Maybe you should cross shop with the Cadillac Cruella Deville (CDS),
Other than the Kia grill, which has got to go, that is a mighty fine looking car. Lot of 5-series in that front 3/4 angle, especially the headlights. And some Tesla in the rear 3/4 angle.
I agree sir. It is a well proportioned looking thing. Best looking Kia/Hyundai by far, and nice to look at in general. Nice to see a modern design with a belt line parallel to the ground.
ha – I hadn’t thought of that, but you are right. Koreans do not like parallel belt lines!
Um, you do know that the most of the designers for Hyundai and Kia are Europeans and Americans?
The front end of the K900 is overly busy and the grill would look better w/o the vertical grill slits (the front end of the Cadenza looks better).
Out of the current crop of Kia vehicles, the front end of the Optima SX/SXL and the cee’d/Pro_cee’d are a good bit better.
However, we’ll probably see some cosmetic changes for the NA market (as the USDM Genesis and Equus have different grill and headlight treatments than the KDM versions) if not a refreshed version.
If you op for after-market grill, this is essentially a BMW 9 series.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5wBnQS0gK38/T3nC0VjVM8I/AAAAAAAHNPs/iKKb9xSaOMQ/s800/Kia-K9-2.jpg
Shades of MKS from sides and rear.
Reminds me of the last gen Lexus GS, actually…
I could also see that.
It’d be cool if they kept the name K9 for English speaking countries. Maybe dog lovers would embrace the idea and sales would be significantly higher just because of that!
It’d need to be a wagon with a steel mesh screen behind the back seat…
That’d seal the deal, no doubt.
I’m sure you’ll be able to rebadge it.
Maybe they should call it the Kia Phaeton.
Winning!
K900’s not bad, especially since model names are forbidden among the cool kids, but I’d have gone for K9000. Just has a faux futuristic ring to it.
9000SUX?
Big is back!
I think they should have went the other way and used K90.
Also good.
Too Volvo-ish.
I don’t know why, but it is the “K” that is messing with me. K just doesn’t seem particularly suited to automotive naming, and the most prominent automotive K is the either the Chrysler K platform and/or the Japanese Kei cars, neither of which bring up thoughts of a top shelf auto.
EDIT: I also just remembers, Chevy C/K. Again, rugged and utilitarian, not high end lux.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_540K
The “K” is for “Korean”. :)
and put it together and one unfortunately & quite unbelievably gets “canine.”
Before anyone “goes all” politically correct on me, I am not making any claims whatsoever about the dietary habits or protein selections, past or present, of the Korean People, but I will state that a good friend of mine from my high school days is a first gen born American, and he says “da!,” and it’s a generational & geographic thing.
K900 sounds awful to me. BMW, Merc, and Lexus use the 3 digit nomenclature for all of their sedans. S550, LS600h, 760i, etc. K900 sounds like they searched for the highest 3 digit number used by any of the luxury brands in recent memory (BMW 850i is the highest I can think of) and “turned it up to 11” by choosing 900. Higher number is better, right??? At least BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus have some basis for the numbers they use. It just sounds so desperate.
And you are still saying “canine” when you say “kay nine hundred”. It still phonetically reminds me of dog.
My friend who works in a local service Garage has told me the both Hyundai and Kia vehicles show a lot of Rust on there Brake Lines more so than other vehicles, Is it the metal that they use in Korea?
Do the owners change their brake fluid on time?
Ferdinand Piech is still lamenting how he couldn’t pull this off with the Phaeton, then probably blaming it on an Asian conspiracy that must be quelled at all costs so the Germans can have more “Kaufensraum” (selling space) for their outstanding-but-misguided products.
I bet he has some cousins in Argentina who can help out.
you are assuming Kia will “pull this off.” Doubtfull, at least, not at anywehere close to list price.
According to the stats, Hyundai seems to be doing okay with Genesis and Equus, against a lot of early critics.
What Stats? Check the sales numbers, they are awful. My local (high traffic) dealer has new 2011 & 12 Genesis still on the lot.
Um, the Genesis sedan outsold the A6, the M and even then brand new Lexus GS last year and that was for a 5 year old model w/o AWD (which is key for sales in the Northeast and Midwest).
The new Genesis sedan with AWD will probably hit 30k in sales.
Looks like they bought the tooling for the 3rd generation Lexus GS.
I’d rather buy a used BMW than a cheap, blatant, knock-off, though I do like the name “K900” over “225i XdriveI GranturismoMCouype”.
FTR I’d take an 80’s Beemer and make sure it wasn’t a hooned out specimen.
Just saw a nice mid 80s 3 series coupe yesterday. Looks like a kid was driving it as he put blackout (or at least near) blackout tint on the windows and had some kind of blue colored 14in or 15in wheels on it.
At 28: BMWs like that I refuse to touch, custom rimz and tintz with a KanN air filter.
At Kenmore: “Xdrivel Couype” would sound much better than “Z4 sDrive23i”, it rolls right off the tongue.
I know, such a shame to see something nice desecrated.
At 28: BMWs like that I refuse to touch, custom rimz and tintz with a KanN air filter.
At Kenmore: “Xdrivel Couype” would sound much better than “Z4 sDrive23i”, it rolls right off the tongue.
Ryoku,
You’ve got some panache in that name…
I’d extract “XdriveI Couype”.. or maybe “Xdrivel Couype”.
A used BMW? Are you out of your mind? Anyone who buys a used car with more than 50K miles from any of the German Big Three deserves what’s coming to them. You’ll be on a first name basis with the service manager.
Briefly…then you’ll be driving a used Optima while the 2003 745Li sits sag-assed in the driveway. Too valuable to be donated for a tax credit, and too expensive to be sold.
I said specifically an 80’s Beemer, the type I could fix with the money I’d save buying a used model over a cheap Korean copy.
I might sound crazy, but you can’t fault me for wanting the genuine article.
As the former owner of a 528e and 633CSi, I heartily agree.
Comparison with 5-series kills it. Why buy Kia when you can get the real thing for about the same price. This will sell well at a significant discount, say $40K for well equipped base. Good looks, good warranty, improved dealer experience this might sell to aspiring lower middle class.
especially when the 5 series is essentially a smaller 7-series.
“this might sell to aspiring lower middle class.”
There is also the former Lincoln Towncar market: Often very affluent people who want a nice big car, but for various reasons, want to keep their affluence on the down low.
“There is also the former Lincoln Towncar market”
So, fleets and people that are likely in the graveyard now?
What was the average age of a retail Town Car buyer from ’03-’11? The ultra-elderly are probably the least likely to consider a Kia as well.
Your affluence is not on the downlow when people see your freaky big Kia, Google it, and see it costs $70,000.
You wildly overestimate the number of people who would care enough to google the price of a Kia.
You have an interesting definition of what constitutes lower middle class.
I see plenty of subprime buyers on this for CPO, new not so much.
It’s actually just the opposite.
People who are new to money or can barely stretch to afford luxuries are the ones who so badly want a flashy status car (see: Escalade). Those who have always been financially secure don’t give a shit; they don’t NEED to impress anyone, and it doesn’t hurt their ego if strivers aren’t impressed with their car.
In previous decades, these people bought Buicks.
The lower middle class aren’t going to be buying cars in the $50-70k range. That’s the price of their homes.
Why buy the Lexus GS or Infiniti M? Nevermind.
The K900 is bit larger than the 5 Series and won’t have the costly problems out of warranty.
They should just call it the 535j.
Exactly, or 535jr
K9 -yeah avoid that. But from the VietNAm war era -KIA meant killed in action.
Still, very nice cars. Good luck to them on it.
Or what it really means:
KI: To rise up from
A: Asia
I don’t get the hate in this thread for this car. Ford has abandoned this niche and RWD so it makes sense to see other players move in. I’d like to see a large RWD Cadillac in this segement as well. Right now its all Dodge/Chrysler and they could use the competition.
I think Kia can undercut the Germans by a lot (just like Dodge/Chrysler does) and do well enough there. It’s probably worth spending whatever they have to certify it. Kia’s used to be horrible on the reliability front but now they are thought to be on par with the second tier Japanese..
I’d create a long wheelbase version and sell it to fleet drivers in NYC. They have no issues about buying any particular country of cars..and just want something comfy and durable (not necessarily super reliable there is a difference0.
“Ford has abandoned this niche and RWD so it makes sense to see other players move in. I’d like to see a large RWD Cadillac in this segement as well.”
Exactly! A 2011 Town Car had a price range of $46k to $53k so I think a market for big, luxurious, RWD cars that don’t come with the brand baggage of a Mercedes or Audi certainly exists.
>> I’d create a long wheelbase version and sell it to fleet drivers in NYC
Last month, KIA trademarked the names KX900 and K900x. So, maybe a long wheelbase is coming – unless it’s a sports coupe.
More likely for an AWD version.
@CelticPete
I agree with you. Why can’t Kia build a good vehicle, that is what it amounts to. Kia will not stay as a cheap and nasty product, at least Kia realises that the value of the Korean currency will rise.
What model for an auto industry does Korea want a German style or US style? Looking at their auto workers they are trying to emulate the UAW which could lead to disaster in the Korean auto industry.
Korea isn’t some third world backwater, it’s a modern nation, like the rest of the advanced economies.
The Korean manufacturers might be making the correct move. Develop a quality export vehicle. The Chinese, which I might mention is not discussed often enough on this site are just around the corner from where the Japanese were 50 years ago and the Korean 30 years ago.
Why try and compete with the Chinese. The US exports Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep. These vehicle compete head to head with the Korean brands here in Australia in bling and pricing. But the US vehicles still have a little way to go with quality.
A Kia will have a much better chance at successfully creating a prestige vehicle market for itself than Caddy would. Caddy is purely US only.
This vehicle I don’t think is or was developed with just the US in mind. Will the Chinese like them, or what about Thailand, Indonesia, India, Brazil, Sth Africa, even here in Australia, etc.
The global market is huge.
I should also add that I think the US’s biggest competitor will be the Chinese manufacturers within a decade. Just like Korean vehicles now are more closely aligned to US quality, bling and pricing.
The European’s have moved along with some of the Japanese a notch above the others. I think this is what the Koreans are trying to do. Not be stuck competing in a larger more competitive market.
They will make more money value adding, than taking GM’s line to see how many vehicles they can produce at a loss:)
More doesn’t mean better.
They could have easily called it the 6000 SUX
Toss in a Blaupunkt and it’s a done deal.
This picture is misleading, the Kia actually dwarfs the BMW 7 …
http://cfile25.uf.tistory.com/image/154FB0504FF112E734B491
I think you just made Danio’s point.
http://www.imcdb.org/i004112.jpg
Oh, *that* 6000SUX… Yeah, that’s it
Love the random dinosaur n the image, its been so long since I’ve seen Robocop I can’t recall if it had any significance in the commercial.
Here you go…enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl8mQhxhE_Q
But this one’s better…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ars458hcETE
What’s sick is how prescient this movie was about the advent of corporatist values.
Thx for the link, now I get it.
I also agree the film was eerily accurate with it portrayal of future corporate behavior. On another note, I’m pretty sure OCP can have Detroit at a fire sale price now.
Rock Ventures = OCP. Dan Gilbert already owns half of downtown.
Now I await the construction of Delta City.
They can create Delta City, but all the Section 8 tenants and scrappers will steal the copper and turn the houses into garbage. Heck, people in Detroit steal copper out of freeway lighting.
OCP better keep their droids locked at night, because they have some good scrap value.
The simple solution is to permanently remove the section 8 tenants.
“permanently remove the section 8 tenants.”
Ach, ja! Stadterneuerung!
(large dog panting)
Once the State of Michigan decides to farm out food stamps and public assistance to a private company, that company will want everyone to be Section 8. Bank on poverty!
We aren’t privatizing state assistance in Michigan now, but they want to start drug testing and requiring community service to get the Bridge Card (Food stamps for those not from Michigan).
“community service to get the Bridge Card (Food stamps for those not from Michigan).”
Nice, since I’m not from Michigan maybe I can get one.
edit: The Bridge Card, for those not from Michigan, is popular local slang for EBT food stamps. The card has a bridge on it, yo.
You probably can. I knew plenty of international students (non-resident aliens) that had them when I worked on Wayne State University’s campus.
Detroit’s former mayor, who is now in Federal prison, received food stamps from the state of Michigan while playing college football in Florida, on a scholarship. His parents were a congresswoman and county executive’s chief of staff at the time.
Take the are you MARS (bridge card) eligible test!
Step 4 is interesting
“Note that for VEHICLES, you only add up values of all EXCEPT for your primary automobile (including boats, trailers, etc.). Do not include your primary home in the PROPERTY assets amount field.”
So they are fine with your Benz or Lexus as long as its your primary auto.
http://www.mfia.state.mi.us/mars/ez_track/MARS000.asp
Oh and also when you start applying for stuff, evidently the heading is in English, Spanish, and Arabic. Nice.
Yes…personal property as in primary vehicle an home value are not included since a middle class professional can hit hard times if a job loss and medical problems hit back to back which depletes thier savings. Or is it better in your world to let that person fall down the rungs of society until they “deserve” a few hundred bucks a month to help them feed themselves. I mean, I know they don’t “deserve” any help with the medical side to some since in a day they became a deadbeat moocher somehow. Go ahead…ask me how I know.
Oh…and the language thing…the US is unique in that we have no official language so Arabic makes sense in MI since there is a large Arab population…or do you begrudge the Russian docs available in Pittsburgh with the same, “nice”?
I’ll bite. How do you know?
On the first point, I was simply surprised on the exemptions, on the second point indeed I would begrudge such documents, especially since the Russian-only speaking population of my city is so minute I’d be surprised to learn of such an accommodation. I could make the whole “Speak English in ‘merica” argument, but in the end it comes down to a question of figures. If you have 25% of your population as native Spanish or Arabic (or whatever locale) speakers, it makes sense to acknowledge and accommodate them (regardless of what this says about your region/country etc). When you start accommodating every minor locale or dialect in a region, you’re simply pandering.
I suppose by offering a V6 (Genesis) with the upsized platform (Equus), Kia is trying to skirt the line between the two. A base price of $50k would substantially undercut the flagship Hyundai.
Why is Phillips trying to differentiate the car by bragging about featurs available on the new Mazda 3 (adaptive headlights, HUD). Especially the HUD – those have been available on a variety of cars for a while now.
I don’t see how Kia’s value strategy with equipment levels translates to this segment.
Kinda uppity kinda soon but I hope it does well just to shame the snobs.
And meanwhile…a two-year-old CPO S-class Benz is going for about $70000 these days. Sorry, Kia – nice looking car, but no sale.
Yes, but a used s-class means you’re trying too hard to impress in a big hat no cattle kind of way. A KIA certainly doesn’t.
I’d argue spending $70,000 US dollars for a car is an attempt to impress someone no matter the badge. With the CPO Benz you get prestigious (if not doochy) marque to go along with your fuel and repair bills.
I don’t think anyone is buying a $70k Kia to impress anyone. They are doing it because they want a big, comfortable luxurious car but don’t want to pay for the badge.
Does not compute.
RWD is not the direction to go if big and comfortable is your desire. A full size FWD sedan is going to give you more interior space for your footprint. An Avalon versus an LS460, for example, is near identical in interior measurements other than the Avalon having an extra 3″ of rear legroom and 2 fewer cubic feet in the trunk. And this is in a car that is 5″ shorter overall and the base price is half as much. If you want to be inconspicuous in your big comfy sedan, you buy something FWD with a Toyota, Chevy*, Hyundai, or Ford badge on the grille.
*Kudos to the new Impala for making the list. Had I written this post a year ago, Chevy wouldn’t be on the list.
It’d be a lot simpler to just pull up saplings and beat your rivals with them.
Whoever wins gets groomed.
Bizarre as always, thanks Kenmore.
My babysitter drives an S420.
Also a 59 Cadillac and an 84 Sentra NX. Not your average babysitter.
I think you’re missing the point of buying a top of the line luxury car – it’s all about status. Let’s face it – if you want a big, high performance luxury car, you can drop $40-45000 on a Chrysler 300C, or Hyundai Genesis, and be done with it.
People who don’t care about status don’t spend $70-100K on a car, Kia or not. If they want to buy a cheaper luxury Kia, they’d probably look at a Cadenza. Truth be told, I wouldn’t mind one either.
I’m trying to imagine what the depreciation will be like on one of these. If it’s bad for BMWs and Mercedes, I can’t imagine what it would be on a seventy thousand dollar Kia. At least with the German cars you have some people buy them used who want everyone to think they have a lot of money. The Kia badge brings all the prestige of being a cashier at Wal-Mart.
Really?
I’m not a cashier at Walmart, and neither is one of my family members who owns a Soul. I bought mine because I got sick of the crappy service that I got from Chrysler, GM, Ford, and Honda. (3 Dodge Trucks, 3 Dodge Cars, 2 Chevys, 1 Buick, 3 Fords, and 2 Civics). 80K miles and it’s been back for warranty service for a mirror whistle at high speed, and a TPMS sensor that failed. It’s not a perfect car, not by a long shot, but it’s miles ahead of 15 other ones that graced my driveway.
Just remember that Toyota was once a company that produced crapboxes, as well as Mazda.
And yet, the Kia Optima has a higher transaction price than the Camry and the Rio a higher ATP than the Yaris.
There’s a reason why Kia is offering a $37k SXL trim for the Optima while Toyota doesn’t for the Camry (or for that matter, Hyundai for the Sonata).
It’s odd how some refer to the Lexus as a benchmark for the Kia. I remember in the 80s when Lexus came out here the same comments made about them. ‘How can a Japanese create a prestige marque?’.
As for the naming convention Kia is using, well it could be better. We have the Kia K29 here in Australia, it’s a small flat bed truck with a 2.9 litre diesel.
Kia and Hyundai have been competing against each other and it appears the consumer is the winner. I do think Kia has lifted it’s game over the past few years in design as compared to Hyundai. As for the engineering, Kia and Hyundai will be as good as any Japanese or Euro prestige vehicle. I actually think Kia has designed some of the nicest vehicles for the everyday person globally, now.
I hope they succeed. As more competition equates to greater progress and we the consumer are the winners.
Kudos sir, your comment wins the day. I think exactly like you.
Your bringing up Lexus actually nails the problem. Toyota created a whole new brand to compete with Mercedes, they didn’t just start selling luxo Toyotas. People looking to drop $60K+ on a ride don’t want it to be associated with the Soul hamsters. that’s not to say Kia doesn’t make good cars, but at the high end that’s not enough, part of what people are paying for is an image of exclusivity.
@Russcyle
Is Kia going to be the ‘exclusive’ brand for the Hyundai Group? Honda started out as a cheap and cheerful company with the Civic in the 70s. In Asia Honda is considered prestige in some countries.
Is the US the prime target for this vehicle? Remember the US is shrinking as a percentage of global vehicle trade.
I do agree with you people pay for a name, especially brand conscious people.
It will be interesting to see what the future is. I hope Kia succeed.
Except, the only RWD Lexus sedan that sells relatively well for its segment is the LS460 which is still $20k cheaper than an S Class.
The GS is a flop and the IS doesn’t sell nearly as much as the 3 Series and C Class.
The bulk of Lexus sales is in “tarted up” FWD Toyotas – the RX and ES and will only increase when the RAV-4 based CUV hits dealer lots.
Even w/o AWD, the Genesis sedan outsells the Lexus GS (and last year it was a 5 year old model while the GS was brand new).
Lexus is just a separate sales distribution channel for Toyota (were sold in Japan as Toyotas until the Lexus brand was launched in Japan).
Toyota has a separate Toyota luxury lineup in Japan (the Crown series) and the flagship sedan for Toyota Corp. is not the LS460 but the Toyota Century.
Big Al, you make an excellent point. This car will be 9/10s to 10/10s of a Lexus, for 7/10s the price.
And it will still have a better warranty.
Lexus is not the benchmark since the K900 will be sportier than the LS460.
“$6000 GUARANTEED TRADE ALLOWANCE!!!! PUSH, PULL, OR TOW IT IN!!!!”
“IF YOU HAVE $2000 AND A JOB, YOU’RE APPROVED!!!!”
“WE WANNA SEE YA IN A KIA!!!!”
I already see Cadenzas with “$4000 off! WOW!” scrawled on the windshield and multi-colored balloons hanging off the door.
I don’t know how it is in the rest of the country, but locally, Kia dealers are not well-equipped to sell an expensive vehicle.
I wonder if welfare is a job in the Kia sales handbook?
Oh god, they say “We Wanna See Ya In a Kia” EVERYWHERE?
And I thought local Kia dealer “Tom Ring, that Kia guy” was just unusually annoying.
Taylor Kia in NW Ohio uses the same line. Same annoying radio commercials too.
“If you have a job and pulse, you can drive a Kia for $99 a month!”.
The question is, do I want to?
Which is hilarious because the brand that puts out cheap econoboxes to anyone with a pulse on the same token wants to sell you a $70,000 7 series fighter.
LOL…but seriously, lenders are required by law to use things like welfare to qualify. The trick is that you have to prove three years’ continuance of the income, which we all know isn’t guaranteed.
Little known facts of finance, Part 979345.
Thanks for the tidbit that’s just, wow. While we already knew this, evidently welfare is a legitimate career path.
The full-size sedan segment has contracted by something like 50% since 2005 and retail-wise it may be even worse. Yet, Hyundai and Kia are serving the segment with 5 different models?
Not only that but 3 of them offer RWD and V8s and none of them use turbos or offer a hybrid.
If one of the Detroit automakers were doing this stuff, half of us would be cheering and half would be rolling our eyes.
It reminds me of when Kia introduced the Borrego a good 5 years after the height of the SUV craze.
To paraphrase the late great Mr. K:
“Dogs love rear-wheel-drive luxury sedans!”
Kia needs to upmarket this to the successful, well educated women who are already driving their sedans. It completely avoids the euro-trash-sedan pissing contests that abound in cubicle land. Betcha didn’t think of that angle.
K900 sounds like an AM radio station.
“K-Billy,” maybe?
They play lots of Stealers Wheel on that station…
That song has just ruined using a straight razor to slice off an ear.
I found K900x and KX900 in addition to K 900. I searched the trademark database and that’s what I found. K 900 was filed back in 2012. K900x and KX900 were filed this August. Maybe they changed their mind or the X models are a variation – maybe extended wheelbase.
Exactly zero Americans are sitting on the edge of their seats in anticipation of owning a K900.
Shouldn’t we wait for a review before declaring that? It’s a pretty sharp looking vehicle and has a good layout. Why shouldnt kia try to compete in all segements? Why good does it do to have a defeatist mentality?
You’re right. Maybe Chevy should sell a version of a $65,000 luxury car.
Come to think of it, they already do…
Never mind.
What Chevy car, aside from the Vette, sells for anywhere near 65k?
If you’re speaking of the new Impala, it may be possible to theoretically spec it that high (I haven’t tried, though), but belief is that one would be hard pressed to option a top trim V6 one above 40k in terms of MSRP (and not actual selling price, real world), and the majority will MSRP for around 30k.
If I were to buy a big sedan that prioritized ride quality, quietness, solidity of the chassis, and overall comfort, the new Impala or Chrysler 300 Pentastar V6 would be the leading candidates, and I’d be able to buy either with all the options I want or need for around 26k based on moderate haggling.
Of course, I do want to wait and see what kind of reliability/durability the 2014 Impala really offers, so I would wait a few years, having been burned by GM way too many times in this area (though I went to Asian makes back in the 90s and never looked back, thus far).
Roger Smith was the anti-christ.
“What Chevy car, aside from the Vette, sells for anywhere near 65k?”
The Suburban/Tahoe optioned up. I think that is the luxury car to which FreedMike is referring.
As long as Michael Vick is not doing ads for it. I see a good number of Hyundai Equis’ around, the rear is a dead ringer for the S-class but for thousands less. Basically folks who can’t move up to the Lexus LS and don’t want to deal with the higher cost of owning a S-class. Kia will fill a similar niche.
Well, the sales figures are in, and Hyundai has sold about 2500 Equus (Equuses? Equui?) this year, and Lexus has sold about 6800 of its’ notoriously slow selling LS.
The Equus isn’t exactly lighting it up.
1st off, the Equus does not have the all-important AWD option for RWD-based sedans and last year, Hyundai sold nearly 4k of the Equus.
For August, Hyundai sold 435 Equus sedans which is in line with what Audi sells of the A8 and Jaguar, the XJ.
Furthermore, the Genesis sedan outsells the A6, M and GS – so the K900 which will split the 2 in price should do alright (Kia is looking at 5k a year in sales which seems about right).
Since its already designed with the rest of the world in mind – how much does it cost Kia to certify it in the US? That’s really the relevant factor..
V8 RWD flagship – Kia and Hyundai out “American” GM and Ford. Lincoln and Cadillac should be ashamed.
Maybe an updated version of the Panther? with Gran Marquis and Townie trim levels? Not the newest gadgets , just tried and true stuff.
I dislike vehicle with fake side air vents as much as I hate paying >$50k for a Kia.