By on February 18, 2011

These three men have been charged with criminal damage of property after vandalizing seven 2011 model-year Toyotas at the Chicago Auto Show, reports the Southtown Star.

Police said they caused about $30,000 worth of damage to the vehicles, which had speakers cut open, dashboards ripped apart, seats sliced and windshields scratched.

Responding officers caught the three in a blue Toyota Camry, damaging the interior with razor knives and flathead screwdrivers, according to police.

They said other Toyotas were found in the immediate area with similar damage, and the three were taken into custody by McCormick Place security personnel, who contacted Chicago police. The men told police they were angry about American jobs going overseas. [emphasis added]


Needless to say, Toyota reps are quick to remind that some 60 percent of its US-sold vehicles are made in America, including four of the seven vehicles vandalized by these brilliant and principled young gentlemen. Says Toyota USA rep Curt McAllister

I think that some stereotypes die hard. All automakers suffer minor incidents of vandalism on the auto show circuit — stolen knobs, badging, etc. — however, we cannot remember such an egregious, premeditated act of vandalism, involving this many vehicles, ever happening at an auto show in the U.S

Which raises some interesting questions, like why is Toyota the face of the outsourcing of American jobs? Why didn’t these promising young minds decide to shred vehicles from another foreign brand, or the foreign-built vehicles sold by the domestic brands? Between the UAW, the congress, Ray LaHood, and the media at large, America’s’s been developing a love affair with hating Toyota. Perhaps TTAC’s best and brightest can help me understand why.

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121 Comments on “Geniuses Fight Back For American Jobs...”


  • avatar
    thirty-three

    I think tech companies have sent more jobs overseas than auto companies. I’m not angry about it even though my job was sent to India a few years ago – I was able to find a new job in a few weeks.  Some people have nothing better to do than to be angry at someone else.

  • avatar

    Theeey took eeerr joobs!!
     
     

  • avatar
    JMII

    Everyone loves an under-dog and (thus) hates the leader… its the American way. Or maybe they tough these were Priuses.

  • avatar
    Zackman

    Perceptions die hard, that’s for sure. These guys, however, are a different story. You can fume, you can hate, you can yell, call names, etc., but when you take matters into your own hands, rightly or wrongly, with no authority to do so, in this case, ideologically, you’ve crossed a very serious line, and your decision and or action can cost you dearly. It amazes me how the majority of people nowadays with all the stresses and challenges they face can function at all. With seeming no clear direction in life, and too often, no moral compass, it’s a wonder these guys didn’t do something far more serious.

  • avatar
    jmo

    after vandalizing seven 2011 model-year Toyotas at the Chicago Auto Show…responding officers caught the three in a blue Toyota Camry.

    Would that be a Georgetown, Kentucky built Camry?

  • avatar
    1996MEdition

    I hate Illinois Nazis

  • avatar
    Junebug

    Damn same we don’t have canning like Singapore does – it’s exactly what these morons need.

  • avatar

    Door number three on the right might have a shot at a remake of Deliverance.

  • avatar
    NoChryslers

    The last one to the left with the pouty lips – you won’t do well in prison.

    • 0 avatar
      tankinbeans

      I think he looks like Beavis with the sixhead and everything else.

      “–you won’t do well in prison.”

      He might make friends, or he’ll be the currency for a pack or two of cigarettes.

  • avatar

    “Similar to the Auburn University tree murder story this week.”

    Yup.  You can fix a vandalized Camry but you can’t fix stupid.

    John

  • avatar
    1996MEdition

    As a side note, what’s up with McCormick Place security?  I get patted down pretty good when I go to a football or hoops game.  How were they allowed in with razor knives and flat head screwdrivers?

    Discuss amongst yourselves…..

    • 0 avatar
      DuManchu

      I’ve been to McCormick for several shows and the most I’ve ever had done is someone scan my access badge/ticket.  Same goes for Bartle Hall in KC for the KC Auto Show, they just scanned my ticket, smiled, and sent me up the escalator.

  • avatar
    banjopanther

    Only a handful of Toyotas made in the USA are made in union plants, so they are still bad for American workers. The Kentucky plants are non-union, which is why they moved there.

    • 0 avatar
      EEGeek

      So only union jobs are good for American workers?
       
      Nice troll.  Catch & release.

    • 0 avatar
      1996MEdition

      “Only a handful of Toyotas made in the USA are made in union plants, so they are still bad for American workers”

      I think you mean “bad for the American union workers”.  There, I fixed it for you.

      Ask any of the Georgetown employees how bad their jobs are for American workers.  I would wager their opinion is a little different from the above.  Non-union jobs are no longer synonymous with low wages and poor working conditions.

    • 0 avatar
      SpinnyD

      None of the Toyotas made in the US are made in union plants since NUMMI closed. Toyota picked Kentucky for it 1st plant because of the huge tax break that Martha Layne Collins gave them and the central location of the plant in the country. And I bet the work that Paul Rusch did in Japan didn’t hurt either.
      http://www.ket.org/tvschedules/episode.php?nola=KKYLI+001216&cd=1&
       

  • avatar
    WheelMcCoy

    Whatever punishment they get, it should include a daily reading of TTAC!  Maybe they’ll learn something.  (Not that reading TTAC is any kind of punishment!)
     

  • avatar
    banjopanther

    Yay, let’s all cheer the race to the bottom! After all we are just the USA, we can’t do any better (at least that’s what my corporate overlords told me, and they wouldn’t lie).

  • avatar
    BMWfan

    The one in the center is the “leader” the other two are just stupid and easily manipulated.

  • avatar
    Neb

    “Between the UAW, the congress, Ray LaHood, and the media at large, America’s’s been developing a love affair with hating Toyota. Perhaps TTAC’s best and brightest can help me understand why.”
     
    One word: scapegoating.
     
    When people want to blame other people for things, they look for a convenient ‘other’ to put the blame on. Toyota is the most successful foreign manufacturer in the USA, so they make the best ‘other’ to rage against.

  • avatar
    CJinSD

    I have seen the faces of organized labor, and they’re ugly.

    • 0 avatar

      There is no evidence whatsoever that these kids are in a union or even associated with a union in any way, but hey, Daddy Rush was talking about union thugs this morning so clearly these must be them!

    • 0 avatar
      golden2husky

      And we all know Rush is Right, always, especially when discussing labor, the environment, immigration, or vandalizing Toyotas.  I remember seeing a story in the early 1980s replete with a photo of UAW members destroying an old Toyota with sledehammers.  I left the library thinking if they put that much effort into assembly quality they wouldn’t have to put on such shows of nonsense.  Late ’70s early ’80s assembly was pretty bad.
       
       

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      Evan,

      How do you know I wasn’t talking about the leeches protesting in Wisconsin? These dirt balls were attacking American made Toyotas because they weren’t made in union shops. Union members’s loyalties are to unions, not to their fellow Americans. I don’t see you having a problem with banjopanther’s poison.

    • 0 avatar
      Blue-S

      @ CJ:  “Leeches?”  That sort of language is neither accurate nor helpful in describing the situation in Wisconsin.  Besides, you’re doing class warfare all wrong.  Rather than complain about the “gold plated” benefits packages of the union-represented employees of private business or government, wouldn’t it be better to lay the blame for the plight of the middle class at the feet of the top 1% in income?  Has your income quadrupled since 1980?

       http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/10/11/the-rising-threshhold-for-being-in-americas-top-1/

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      I don’t pay for the rich. They earn their money providing goods, services, and jobs for the private sector. I pay for the leeches, who buy corrupt politicians to steal more of the private sector’s hard earned wealth for their unparalleled benefits, early retirements, double dipping, job security, and entitlement to produce nothing and do their jobs badly for as long as they feel like it. The classes in this country are the productive class and the entitled class. Guess which class a union government worker who has complete job security, double their hypothetical work in compensation, hire date to grave benefits, doesn’t create any wealth, and who will spend more years retired than pretending to work belongs in?

    • 0 avatar
      Blue-S

      Wow!  That’s an incredible viewpoint!  So, it’s “overhead” in the private sector, but “leach” in the public sector?  Have you told your local police officers and fire fighters that you think they are leeches?  How about the teachers at the local school?  Maybe the judges at the county courthouse?  The folks at the FDA that work to ensure safety in food and medicine?  It must be soothing to have such a black-and-white world view…

      We all know what the situation in Wisconsin is REALLY about:  destroying unions’ ability to donate to non-Republican candidates, in order to cement Republican and corporate power in the political system.  It goes hand-in-glove with the Supreme Court’s decision in the People’s United case. 

  • avatar

    [sigh]…
    their pictures explain it all.

  • avatar
    obbop

    Do idiots need a REASON to behave idiotically?
    I never needed a reason when I did.
    Yeah, I wasn’t a perfect kid and usually didn’t offer any lame excuse when caught.
    Learned it was typically best to just admit guilt and not offer some lame made-up excuse for idiotic actions.
     
    Attempting to concoct a rational OR irrational excuse when none exists or given is an example of idiocy within the mind of the one (the news story writer, apparently, in this case and, perhaps, the police) wanting an excuse for whatever reason.
    Selah

  • avatar
    65corvair

    What they did was wrong. 

    People who buy cars are the ones causing the job loss. 

    They must have not gotten around to the Chevy, Ford or Chrysler sections.

  • avatar
    John B

    Yikes!  The idiot in the centre looks just like Bubbles from Trailer Park Boys.

  • avatar
    panzerfaust

    Son, being a scrawny, destructive dumbass is no way to go through life. 

  • avatar
    wmba

    “Why didn’t these promising young minds decide to shred vehicles from another foreign brand, or the foreign-built vehicles sold by the domestic brands?”
     
    Because promising is a word and not reality — like most dunderheads these folks would have no idea Toyota has US factories, nor that Ford and Chrysler make a lot of stuff in Mexico.  All they know is: Toyota is not an English word.

  • avatar
    Patrickj

    These are the people who are going to keep the U.S. as a first world country?

  • avatar
    mrhappypants

    A little too much chlorine in that gene pool.
     

  • avatar
    Andy D

    Beavis  and  Butthead meet Bubbles

  • avatar

    Poster children for Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.
     
    A fitting punishment might be for them to do a work-release program. They spend their nights in jail, but their days cleaning the bathrooms at a local Toyota dealership for minimum wage until such time as they’ve repaid their debt to Toyota.

  • avatar
    GS650G

    These three have just GOT to be related by blood. Lurch on the far right looks like a cartoon character.

  • avatar
    Terry

    65Corvair posted: “People who buy cars are the ones causing the job loss. ”
    But are they?
    People will buy what they consider the best value for their $$. If one manufacturer makes what is  considered–rightly or wrongly– an inferior product, the consumer will turn elsewhere. As they have. Are you suggesting that people should purchase products out of patriotism, out of sense of community keeping your neighbor employed?
    Or is it only OK if a US manufacturer sells imports under their name, while it’s not OK for an import-based manufacturer to sell their US-made products to US consumers? Who really is to blame here?
     

  • avatar
    M 1

    60% of US-sold autos are made in America. 100% of auto profits go back to Japan. For all of TTAC’s obsessing about the mysteries of car biz numbers in China and the like, I am continually saddened that such a simple point is apparently so difficult to grasp.
     
    Years ago we tried to do the math and figure out how much of the price of a new Toyota actually went into the US economy. The number we arrived at was 21%, which was actually slightly more than Toyota’s profit margin which has hovered around an industry-low of 20% for many years. However, nearly all of that 21% only applies to the 60% of cars made here, so in reality, only about 13% of revenue actually goes back into the US economy. There’s your Made in USA. (I’d like to see TTAC tackle this exercise, I’m sure your data is far superior to what a bunch of us were able to tease off the interwebs over beer one evening three or four years ago.)
     
    And judging by those photos, someone really needs to test the Chicago water supply for thalidomide.

    • 0 avatar

      Profits are miniscule, and most are taxed anyway. These “numbers” are a lie. If it took that little localizaed revenue to build car like these lies suggest, Tesla would’ve been a world-ruling powerhouse already.

    • 0 avatar

      Please enlighten us of your math.
       
      If Toyota make 20% per car. then 80% of the cost goes in manufacturing. That’s wages, power, steel and components, and unless they have a tunnel bringing that all in from Japan then one way or another most of that money goes into the US economy. Even imported parts would be unloaded and transported by US workers so money goes into the US economy. Please get away from “the profits go back to Japan”, the profits are insignificant next to the costs, and most of the costs are spent in the US.

    • 0 avatar
      Educator(of teachers)Dan

      @sitting at home, +1 I’m not going to feel guilty if I buy a Sonata built in Alabama or a Honda Accord built in Marysville, OH or a Nissan Altima built in TN. 

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      100% of auto profits go back to Japan.
      Toyota is a publicly owned company and quite a few US nationals own it’s stock. In fact, if you look at the financial data, the 5th largest stockholder was State Street Bank and Trust of Boston. If you look at the other top ten largest share holders, there are probably U.S. investors that have stock in those entities as well. The truth is that in our global economy, profits from large corporations flow all over the globe and not necessarily to the country named in the mailing address of the corporate headquarters.

    • 0 avatar
      KixStart

      21% into the American economy?

      I don’t know where you get your figures but they strike me as way off.  Certainly US content varies but the Tacoma I glanced at last year was over 90% US parts.  In addition to assembly, Toyota also fabricates engines and transmissions here (I think it’s over a million of each).

      Then there’s the investment in the plant.  They certainly didn’t bring, for example,  steelworkers from Japan (or China or outsource it to India) to get the plant built.

      You could always re-import those profits by buying Toyota stock.

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      While a foreign brand car assembed here is better for our economy than an imported one, do not succumb to the simplistic thinking that they contribute anywhere close to the same to our country.
      The Detroit 3 spend far more on R & D in American than any other industry.
      The foreign brands spend essentially zero here.

      Almost all of the Product and manufacturing systems development, the business administration, accounting, purchasing- almost all of the high paid, so-called gold collar jobs for the foreign brands are in Japan, Korea & Germany.

      The Detroit 3 provide 10’s of thousands of those jobs here. Most importantly, they maintain the intellectual capacity to run the most complex and capital intensive industries there are.
      And the global number keeps shrinking.

      Talk to the Brits about how they like assembling Japanese, German, American, and now Indian cars. The nation that sat on top of the world 100 years ago no longer has any product development or any other higher level work in the auto sector or virtually any other manufacturing sector. Sure, they have a race car cottage industry, but it employes a tiny number of people compared the automakers. 

      An American future similar to Britain: foreign owned factories where manual labor is the norm except for those who are line foremen and the few that rise higher have to learn a foreign language and have no chance to rise to the top of the company.

      I wanted to design and develop cars, or be as close to the action as possible. It seems like everyone here has opinions about how and what the makers should do. 

      I would hate to see the day when that work is not done in America. GM, is hiring 1,000 more engineers to work on electric cars. We almost took two of three steps to that future.
      Please don’t forget this reality.
      (Do you feel even a little bit guilty now Educator Dan?)

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      BTW- Everyone should pick the vehicle they like, regardless of where it is “made”.

      This is America, and we have freedom to choose, which is a great thing. And there are a lot of good choices. 

      Not really trying to make anyone guilty, just want to be clear on the truth.

    • 0 avatar
      psarhjinian

      Anyone remember Bertel’s story from a few days ago about the bulk of a car’s cost being the building it’s made in, and the bulk of it’s price the assembly and facility costs, not the R&D or profit?
       
      If you care about economic impact, where the profits go and where the R&D is done do not matter as both are slivers of the economic footprint.  Assembly is everything.

    • 0 avatar
      Zas

      @M 1: Dude, whatever it is that you’re smokin’, PLEASE SHARE!!!!
       
      Just so you know, none of the Japanese automakers have sent any dollars back to Japan for the greater part of this past decade. With the Japanese Yen being very strong against the American Dollar, they would actually lose money in doing so, and, well, that wouldn’t be a very smart thing. As others have pointed out, Toyota is a publicly traded US company, and most of their investments go back into the local economy.
       
      I suggest that before you go spouting off like that, you do some research before posting such things.

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      @ psarhjinian- Your notion that assembly is the dominant value component in vehicle assembly is simply not true.

      While I don’t have current data, I can tell you that final assembly costs are a smaller portion of the cost of a vehicle than product development costs. Old data, but I believe still illustrative- Final assembly cost on GM N cars was around $750 per car with dealer price of around $10,000. For GM, the cost per car of only UAW retiree’s health care was about the same, at that time.

      These numbers are based on old GM’s labor costs. One would reasonably expect that the more efficient transplants would have a smaller fraction than that.

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      oops! I meant to type- “..dominant value component in vehicle cost assembly is simply not true.

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      @Zas- It is incredibly naive to believe that any company would invest billions of dollars without expecting a return.
      Hard numbers belie the error in you belief.
      Toyota was dragged to their first annual Global loss in 2008 due completely to the collapse of the U.S. market in the last 2 1/2 months of the year. They went on to lose even more than GM in the first quarter of 2009.

      These facts are rock solid. If my logic is faulty, please correct me and answer this question,
      How can this be true if Toyota doesn’t generate huge profits in America?

      To really understand the Truth that this site is about, you have to have an understanding of the facts of life.

  • avatar
    Nick

    I demand to know which company is dumping the hydrocarbons that have messed with their DNA.  Now there’s a story.

  • avatar
    zeus01

    Years ago we tried to do the math and figure out how much of the price of a new Toyota actually went into the US economy. The number we arrived at was 21%, which was actually slightly more than Toyota’s profit margin which has hovered around an industry-low of 20% for many years. However, nearly all of that 21% only applies to the 60% of cars made here, so in reality, only about 13% of revenue actually goes back into the US economy. There’s your Made in USA.

    The best answer to this argument belongs to Terry:

    People will buy what they consider the best value for their $$. If one manufacturer makes what is  considered–rightly or wrongly– an inferior product, the consumer will turn elsewhere. As they have. Are you suggesting that people should purchase products out of patriotism, out of sense of community keeping your neighbor employed?
    Or is it only OK if a US manufacturer sells imports under their name, while it’s not OK for an import-based manufacturer to sell their US-made products to US consumers? Who really is to blame here?

    So if the former Big Three domestic manufacturers want to regain the market share in North America that they used to enjoy back in the 1960s the answer is, and always has been, Build. Better. Cars. Make the buying public believe that ours are the best cars on the planet, but do so by actually building the best cars on the planet. Quit trying to guilt-trip us into committing to some patriotic mission to save a relative few union jobs or worse, insulting our intelligence by promising champagne while delivering piss. We’re sick of that strategy and have been for a very long time.

  • avatar
    DearS

    An old lady in a nursing home said to me, She would never buy Toyotas they are unsafe and dangerous, after a commercial came on. An old lady who has not driven for years. I saw an inferiority complex/superiority complex. Its them or us type of feelings. Its part of the Human condition, lets be happy they aren’t suicidal, they are ok with going to jail.

  • avatar
    tiredoldmechanic

    Yeah, that’s it. Those darn Japanese are the reason these 3 don’t have jobs. Otherwise I’m sure they’d be in middle management at GM by now….

  • avatar
    Crosley

    This is the kind of nonsense that the UAW pushes.  It’s really not about “American” jobs, it’s about union jobs.
     
    And even if Toyota’s entire line was made in Japan, so what?  How would you feel if Japanese punk kids vandalized American-made products that Japanese consumers bought?  Trade with other countries employs LOTS of Americans, we’re still the number one manufacturer on Earth.
     
    I blame the public school system, they probably know all about global warming but not even the basics about economics.

    • 0 avatar
      golden2husky

      I blame the public school system, they probably know all about global warming but not even the basics about economics.
       
      That was a meaningless comment.  The public school system is not to blame for the stupidity of these knuckle heads.  I blame excessive inbreeding.  Either that or the formaldehyde emissions from the materials in their doublewide.

    • 0 avatar
      jacob_coulter

      Crosley +1
       
      I bet they’ve seen Al Gore’s fraudulent movie at least 10 times in school but still don’t know how a job is created.
       

    • 0 avatar
      DearS

      A little bigger than that, I don’t recall other adults taking responsibility to help me understand the world around me. Even adults now don’t work on understanding the world around them, then again this has been the case mostly everywhere.

  • avatar
    mikey

    I detest non domestic vehicles with a passion. Toyota,Honda and VW’s are garbage in my world.

    Having said that, anybody that would deliberatly damage someone elses property. is a lower form of life. There is zero justification for such action.

    • 0 avatar
      Terry

      Mikey posted: “I hate domestic vehicles with a passion”
      Really? Why? You obviously never would have purchased one. So..did an import car take your lunch money, beat you up, or call your parents names?
      Define..”Domestic Vehicle”.
      If you bought a GMC truck with a Duramax diesel, upon find out it’s an ISUZU engine would you commit Hari-kari?

    • 0 avatar
      The Gold Tooth

      I detest non domestic breakfast cereals with a passion. I detest non domestic beer with a passion. I detest non domestic hairbrushes with a passion.
      Do any of these examples make even the slightest bit of sense? No, and neither does hating non domestic vehicles. Go and stand in the corner facing the wall until you’ve calmed down.

    • 0 avatar
      mikey

       Y’a missed my point guys. Maybe detest was a little harsh,lets just say, I don’t like imports. I’m not going to defend my opinion,nor am asking anyone to support it.

      I do however, not believe in destroying or damaging anyone property to prove a point.

      36 years UAW/CAW, and seeing an import in the employee  parking lot totally pi–ed me off. I would never dream of hurting said  vehicle.nor would a huge majority of my co workers.

      However thier is always the a$$hole factor. The guys in the photo seem to qualify.

    • 0 avatar
      JustPassinThru

      Deleted – misplaced

  • avatar
    highdesertcat

    If anyone missed it, these guys were ages 20, 22 and 27 (see autoblog).  Not exactly kids. I think Toyota is going to drop this and won’t press any charges. It’s obvious from their mug shots these guys aren’t the brightest light bulbs on the chandelier.

    • 0 avatar
      JustPassinThru

      Yes, they’re the bottom-feeders in the gene pool; and no, jail is where they need to be.
       
      I work for my money – and make less than most UAW “workers” – and I spend it on what pleases ME.  If that choice is taken away, I will not spend it.
       
      I don’t see much that’s appeaing in America’s Japanese-knockoff trash today.  And I have to think CAREFULLY before off-loading the kind of cash that a new-car purchase requires.  I will not be led by the nose to buy a government-manufactured car, not at ANY price.  Because the firms’ products’ quality, already suspect, will drastically drop with monopolistic bureaucratic ownership.
       
      Witness:  Yugo, Leyland, Renault in its French-government days, Trabant.  I would frankly rather WALK or take the public transit I’m already paying for, than throw my money away on Government Motors garbage.
       
      I chose a Toyota.  I chose it over flashier cars and ones more fun to drive, because Toyota offers more pure value over the period of ownership than any domestic manufacturer.  And in the end, economics trumps other considerations.
       
      And if the union goons and thugs, who ripped me off for 14 years of worthless membership where they represented the COMPANY’s interests against US, the members, because it was politically expedient (they thought)…if they think they can bully and cower me into buying the junk they build that their beloved government bureaucrats pretend to design…they better think again.

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      @JustPassinThru- Then you also make less than the guys building the Toyota’s, Nissans, etc!

      I always find it confusing that envy of “overpaid” autoworkers is limited to the domestic companies. They all make about the same amount these days, UAW or transplants.

      Popular media proclaimed “UAW labor costs $73/ hour versus transplants around $43/hour.” The numbers are true, and certainly a valid reflection of what it costs the carmakers. They also confusing, leading to the erroneous conclusion that the UAW worker gets that amount. He never has, and on average with tier 2 rates, gets even less today. The $73 includes dividing all of the costs per year of over 1,000,00 UAW retirees health care by the labor hours of those currently working. The legacy costs of having been employers of hundreds of thousands of people in an industry that now requires far fewer workers per vehicle on top of fewer vehicles being produced.

      Actual hourly wage rates of the UAW worker’s today are on par, probably actually less than the Transplants.

      “Class envy” is your prerogative, but is is not fact based to target only UAW autoworkers.  

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      I agree that this worthless scum SHOULD be in prison, but I do not think that is going to happen because of a Toyota complaint, because I do not believe that Toyota will press charges.  If Toyota presses charges these three clowns will become UAW heroes, like martyrs for the UAW and the foreign-bashers.  If Toyota does not press charges then the Toyota fans will be angry.  It is in Toyota’s best interest not to stir the pot of controversy because the UAW, Ray LaHood and the US government have already bestowed so much trumped-up negative press on them and fined them so heavily for non-existent crimes and omissions.  Toyota’s greatest revenge is to sell even more of their excellent cars in the US than they have in the past. Although I am only a recent convert to Toyota (2008) I have to side with the people who have had great experiences with the foreign brands. Toyota makes better stuff.  The American car makers, not so much.

    • 0 avatar
      JustPassinThru

      DrO:

      What you say may be so. But if the transplants are paying better; and at the same time they’re not burdened by union work-rules and gamesmanship…it seems a no-brainer.

      As the Studebaker workforce was able to tell us…a pension promise is not the same as a pension guarantee.

      My work situation is long and involved; but it involved me leaving voluntarily for quality-of-life and workplace-conditions issues that the union liked to use as justification for their radical politics. In fact, it was that the union leaders and the Company were in bed together…I had enough.

  • avatar
    ajla

    America’s’s been developing a love affair with hating Toyota. Perhaps TTAC’s best and brightest can help me understand why.

    Toyota doesn’t give us many reasons to love them. They don’t build the Celica, Supra, or 2-door 4Runner anymore.  The Land Cruiser costs $70K. They run those lame Highlander ads.  They invented Scion.  Nothing they make is especially attractive. Their tactile quality has dropped in recent years.
     
    They make reliable stuff, and have good resale, but so does Honda and at least with them you can get a 8000RPM redline.
     
    The Prius is still pretty slick though.

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      Does Honda really still make engines with 8,000 rpm redline? I thought they had dropped it considerably with the newer models. Just curious.

    • 0 avatar
      mikey

      @highdesertcat……UAW heroes? and where to you pull that info from?

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      Terry- Those diesel engines are built right here in America. Valid point about the design coming from Isuzu, though.

      Mikey is right to point out that there is no evidence that any of them have ever been UAW members. I am not aware of any dealers employees being represented by the UAW, though some are unionized, most are not.

      wrt- why Toyota is the target. I can’t speak for these @ssholes’ dysfunctional thought processes, but Toyota is the biggest selling foreign car brand in America. That seems to make them the biggest target for those impacted by the decline in market share and employement for the Detroit car makers, and their dealers. I hate to defend them, but in regards to all of the recalls, it was just their turn in the barrel, so to speak. It seems to be human nature to try to knock down the one on top of the hill.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      @doctor olds:

      The Civic Si still has an 8000RPM redline.  The Accord and TSX can be had with a still comparatively high 7100RPM one.

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      @ajla- Thanks for the info. I love high rpm! The HO Quad4 pulled so strong to 7200, it was  dissappointing  to bump into the rev limiter.

      The sound of these 8,000 RPM engines is incredible!

  • avatar
    mazder3

    Apparently Beavis on the left worked at a Pontiac dealership and was unhappy about Toyota’s union policies, which is why the Camry took the brunt of the damage.
    http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/news/local/chibrknews-1-of-3-arrested-at-auto-show-had-gripe-against-toyota-20110218,0,4362145.story?track=rss

    • 0 avatar
      Dynasty

      Aren’t Pontiac dealerships bye bye now?

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      @ dynasty- Yes, they are all closed. May be why the guy’s so upset, he is out of work.
      Not defending their indefensible behavior here!

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      I bet the Americans employed by Toyota in various jobs and positions in the US would beg to differ with these three losers. Along with the other transplants that set up shop in America Toyota has greatly improved the lives of the people who are employed by them, their  communities and the states they live in, and has contributed mightily to the US Treasury in the form of taxes. Like many UAW-members, these three losers were misguided and took their misplaced anger out on the wrong party.  They should have taken their anger out on the policies of the US government that sanction bail outs, hand outs and nationalization of some selected American companies.  They should express their anger at Congress for driving America’s business out of America, and the UAW for driving its employers into bankruptcy.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      mechanic, I understand where you’re coming from. The fact remains that GM died and Chrysler is still dead.  The facts or circumstances as to how they got there are no longer of any importance, and there are as many opinions about how they got there as there are as sholes. I only speak for myself when I relate my own experiences with the domestic brands like Ford and Chevy.  My wife’s ’92 Town car, bought new, was a maintenance and repair nightmare.  She needed it for her real estate business.  My F150 and even older Silverado were the pits. I am getting too old to crawl under a car and do repair work in the drive-way. Happy days are here again once she bought that 2008 Jap-built Highlander Limited AWD.  Best, most trouble-free car we’ve ever owned!  Motivated me to divest myself of my old F150 and Silverado and buy a new 2011 Tundra Limited 4dr 5.7.  Best-riding, best-handling truck I have ever owned!  I realize the Tundra is not for everyone, but it sure works good for me.  Does everything I want it to do and does it better than any other truck I have ever owned. The fact remains that bailing out GM, Chrysler and the UAW was the wrong thing to do, for Bush, for Obama, and for America.  There are a lot of people who think that buying domestic, including Ford, means that you are rewarding failed companies for their bad behavior of the past.  It remains to be seen if the Fusion can displace the Camry, the Accord and the Altima from their current market share.  The new threat on the horizon is the Sonata. Big pickups from the domestic manufacturers continue to do very well.  But the majority of new car buyers still choose to buy a foreign brand or a transplant, made in America, by Americans, for Americans, without the help of the UAW.  Personally, I would like to see all transplants pack up and move to Mexico.  That would keep the Mexicans from coming over here looking for jobs, and it would end all this grief with the UAW and their supporters.  After all, America’s domestic car makers are moving to Mexico to get away from the UAW, why shouldn’t the transplants? NAFTA allows them duty-free importing into the US and the UAW won’t feel left out because the transplants won’t be here.

    • 0 avatar

      “Like many UAW-members, these three losers were misguided and took their misplaced anger out on the wrong party.  They should have taken their anger out on the policies of the US government that sanction bail outs, hand outs and nationalization of some selected American companies.  They should express their anger at Congress for driving America’s business out of America, and the UAW for driving its employers into bankruptcy.”

      Sadly, that’s very unlikely to happen. If relatively well-reasoned individuals like mikey are unwilling to see the forest through the trees, it’s highly doubtful these three bottom-skimmers every could.

    • 0 avatar
      mazder3

      That Pontiac dealership might still exist as a GMC dealer. There is one in their area and it was once called Community Pontiac/GMC.
      http://www.gmcoftinleypark.com/

  • avatar
    also Tom

    Manny, Moe and Jerk

    • 0 avatar
      mikey

      @highdesertcat…… The UAW drove thier employers into bankruptcy?  So how come Ford didn’t go bankrupt

      This is a pretty simple story…..Three idiots got arrested,for being idiots. End of story its got f–k all to do with the UAW.

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      @highdesertcat- Ford wasn’t far very far behind. Mullally did go to congress with the other CEOs. Ford just got into financial distress earlier, and was able to secure a commercial $23B credit line back in 2006. They hocked everything including their HQ building and the Ford blue oval as security.  It was enough to carry them thru the cash burn of the market collapse caused by the global financial crisis. GFC hit in two ways- it froze consumer credit which caused retail sales to fall off the cliff and it forced GM and Chrysler into the arms of government for financing.  

      Despite being viewed as a darling right now, Ford’s debt load gives them a $1,000 interest cost per car disadvantage compared to GM and their future is no where near as bright as so many seem to think.
       

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Gents, for the first 62 years of my life I never owned a foreign brand vehicle of any kind.  Drove mostly Ford and Chevy, never a Chrysler product.  I know first hand about Fix Or Repair Daily and Found On Road Dead. I even know first hand about Ford Has A Better Idea and Quality Is Job Last.  I also know that a Chevy runs badly longer than most other brand cars run at all.   I’m not being snide here, merely telling you about my personal experiences.  However, I should also tell you that it came as no surprise to me to see GM and Chrysler go belly up. Ford was in dire straits much earlier on and prudent management prevented a total implosion like that of GM and Chrysler. What all three companies had in common was overriding expenses in the form of collectively-bargained wages and benefits.  That all three companies made bad products can also be attributed to the assembly ethics of the UAW members.  No matter how you look at it, those are the facts and some people, which now includes me, will no longer buy from these three domestic manufacturers ever again.  Some people have posted that buying from them again would be like rewarding them for their bad past performance. I agree. The fact that the transplants have done America a huge service by setting up plants here was lost to these three numb nuts.

    • 0 avatar
      tiredoldmechanic

      highdesertcat,
                         I’m not a union fan at all, but GM and Chrysler went broke on thier own hook, not because of the UAW/CAW. Ridiculous work rules in the collective agreement did not help, but I can’t see “assembly ethics” from union members as the primary cause. GM and Chrysler lost the trust of thier customers because they designed cars that did not provide value for money spent. Then they didn’t stand behind them. That’s why people looked to imports.
      Ford was just as bad, the only reason they aren’t on the goverment tit is that they had enough sense, or luck, to yell for help from the private investment sector in the nick of time.
       For decades the big 3 squeezed every dime, cut every corner and took every shortcut they could to maximize profit per unit at the expense of quality. Those were management decisions, not the fault of the people that bolted those decisions together.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      mechanic, I understand where you’re coming from. The fact remains that GM died and Chrysler is still dead. The facts or circumstances as to how they got there are no longer of any importance, and there are as many opinions about how they got there as there are as sholes. I only speak for myself when I relate my own experiences with the domestic brands like Ford and Chevy. My wife’s ’92 Town car, bought new, was a maintenance and repair nightmare. She needed it for her real estate business. My F150 and even older Silverado were the pits. I am getting too old to crawl under a car and do repair work in the drive-way. Happy days are here again once she bought that 2008 Jap-built Highlander Limited AWD. Best, most trouble-free car we’ve ever owned! Motivated me to divest myself of my old F150 and Silverado and buy a new 2011 Tundra Limited 4dr 5.7. Best-riding, best-handling truck I have ever owned! I realize the Tundra is not for everyone, but it sure works good for me. Does everything I want it to do and does it better than any other truck I have ever owned. The fact remains that bailing out GM, Chrysler and the UAW was the wrong thing to do, for Bush, for Obama, and for America. There are a lot of people who think that buying domestic, including Ford, means that you are rewarding failed companies for their bad behavior of the past. It remains to be seen if the Fusion can displace the Camry, the Accord and the Altima from their current market share. The new threat on the horizon is the Sonata. Big pickups from the domestic manufacturers continue to do very well. But the majority of new car buyers still choose to buy a foreign brand or a transplant, made in America, by Americans, for Americans, without the help of the UAW. Personally, I would like to see all transplants pack up and move to Mexico. That would keep the Mexicans from coming over here looking for jobs, and it would end all this grief with the UAW and their supporters. After all, America’s domestic car makers are moving to Mexico to get away from the UAW, why shouldn’t the transplants? NAFTA allows them duty-free importing into the US and the UAW won’t feel left out because the transplants won’t be here.

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      JustPassinThru

      I agree with a good share of what you wrote. I am no union fan for all the same reasons, but I will come to the defense of the most workers work ethic. Most of them just want to do a good job.
      Working quality systems issues from a staff level, I see shop rules that don’t support quality as more significant than poor workmanship. Still a union problem, but one that has improved greatly over the years. Frankly, the worker is only as good as the system he works in and management is always responsible for the system.

      A group of blind men tried to describe an Elephant by touching it, like they might touch a person’s face. Each feeling the trunk , the ears, the legs… had a different perception of reality. None were wrong, but none had the whole picture, either.

      Each of us have opinions based on our “touching the elephant.” I appreciate reading others, and try to share mine so that we can all get closer to knowing the truth. 

      All I say is, set aside emotional baggage and do yourself the service of looking at the products today, not the politics.

  • avatar
    Zas

    I called an old friend in prison:
     
    “I want the one of the left as my new bunk-mate, his lips are full and can be useful.”
     
    Is the response I got from him.

  • avatar
    George B

    I blame Saul Alinsky.  Alinsky made Chicago the home of community organizing and the grievance industry.  The beef with Toyota is that their success weakens the power of cities like Chicago, the UAW, and lefty parasitic organizations by shifting jobs away from urban centers where the left is strong to rural areas where it’s harder to rent a scary mob.  University of Kentucky students are less intimidating than busloads of people from the South side of Chicago.  Wonder how many consumers end up choosing a Georgetown, KY built Toyota Camry or Avalon over a Chicago built Ford Taurus?

  • avatar
    zeus01

     The UAW drove thier employers into bankruptcy?  So how come Ford didn’t go bankrupt

    Ford had the presence of mind to build better cars than either GM or Chrysler. True, some of those cars were built in Mexico (cutting the UAW out of the equation), and also true that some of Ford’s products (ex: the Fusion) are part Mazda, which is partly owned by Ford. It’s all good though, because at least this strategy allowed Ford to build cars that people actually wanted for a price that allowed for a profit margin, however small.

    Finally, Ford had the presence of mind to avoid a bail-out at all cost, viewing that option as suicidal from a customer loyalty standpoint. They were right.

     Ford’s success (vs. GM and Chrysler) is therefore not because of CAW/ UAW but rather, in SPITE of the CAW/ UAW.

  • avatar
    zeus01

     blame Saul Alinsky.  Alinsky made Chicago the home of community organizing and the grievance industry.  The beef with Toyota is that their success weakens the power of cities like Chicago, the UAW, and lefty parasitic organizations by shifting jobs away from urban centers where the left is strong to rural areas where it’s harder to rent a scary mob.  University of Kentucky students are less intimidating than busloads of people from the South side of Chicago.  Wonder how many consumers end up choosing a Georgetown, KY built Toyota Camry or Avalon over a Chicago built Ford Taurus?

    Well put!!

  • avatar
    Steven02

    I think too much is being made of this.  Wasn’t there are large tree hugging group in California that would go around an burn Hummers and other large SUVs in the dealer lots?

    • 0 avatar
      Educator(of teachers)Dan

      Yes there was.  Some of these groups were also burning McMansions while they were still under-construction.  And while I think McMansions are eyesores, I’d never destroy someone else’s property.  (Although my favorite McMansion tatic is “big impressive” facade with stone and brick and columns and such then the side and rear are covered in the cheapest vinyl/aluminum siding you can get your hands on.  That one always makes me laugh.) 

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