I greeted my temporary assignment to Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada with joyful anticipation. After numerous hours in an E-3 looking for simulated bogeys over the Mojave Desert, the proximity to Sin City was a welcome reprieve. Stepping down from my jet, Technical Sgt. Peters handed me a set of keys and pointed to the terminal's parking lot. Examining the plate number on the tag, and seeing a Chevy emblem on the key, I expected a minivan. Instead, a ginormous Express 3500 15-Passenger van assaulted my vision. For this I defend my country?
A van can't look beautiful- any more than a Victoria's Secret model can negotiate an Israeli – Palestinian ceasefire. At best, a van can look conservatively handsome. At worst, it looks like this. The Express' cheap grey plastic grill, cheap black headlight surrounds, and flanking black plastic taillights could be described as a rolling trailer park refrigerator. Did you notice the side strakes? Why would you?
All Express vans have dents in the passenger rear side doors. We finally solved the riddle when we realized that GM forgot to put a detent stop on the door, letting it swing open fully into the front passenger door, leaving a series of scars on both.
When I opened said doors, I reeled back in terror. The van's interior is an unattractive, poorly-built ergonomic disaster zone. My cohort, Captain Alfred, displayed his usual flair for automotive insight. "What a piece of crap." That's an affirmative sir!
The Express "boasts" acres of cheap beige plastic, spread throughout the cabin like polymer kudzu. I'm not saying the van's panel gaps are large, but I wouldn't let Paris Hilton ride in it lest her chihuahua fall into one of the gaps and disappear forever (perish the thought). The Express' plastic flash seams ripped my flight suit as I hoisted myself into the driver's seat- an extremely difficult not to say pointless maneuver, as there are NO grab handles ANYWHERE in the van. In fact, I nearly fell right back out (thigh bolstering need not apply. And doesn't.)
The Express' driver's seat slides forward and aft. And that's it for any pretense of driver comfort from GM. No tilt or telescopic wheel adjustments, no electric side mirror or seat recliners. At least our 1LT optioned van had armrests– swathed in cloth so rough my elbow left enough skin for a burn victim. The air conditioner coughed cool air at us and the AM/FM radio crackled out the signal from an eight bazillion watt stations.
The Express' crank window levers are so flimsy that a gap appears between the knob and the arm, pinching the webbing between your thumb and finger every time you roll down the window. Now that's cheap.
At least the Express seats 15 people. Luggage? Not so much. The idea of driving an Express with MORE weight on top or towing a trailer does not fill me with confidence (as in scares me to death). In our tester, the Express' spare stood upright IN THE MIDDLE of the cargo area. Did I want to know what chain of events led to this situation? Uh…
Equipped with Ye Olde 6.0-liter Vortec V8 engine groaning out 300bhp, "my" Chevrolet Express should have driven con brio. If we're talking about Brio wooden toy trains, then yes. Otherwise, no. While the transmission shifts decently for a truck, the engine roared like a jet belching turbine blades out the back end. Three-hundred bhp my ass. The Express drives like there's 150bhp on tap, at most.
Turning corners turns the word "Express" into a cruel joke. There's no steering feel. The ride's bouncy enough to make Tigger nauseous. And the brakes are mushier than English peas. The Express' tendency to leap into the air, jiggle the front wheels and then crash back on the pavement is a direct challenge to a jet pilot's hand – eye coordination, especially at 70mph.
Truth be told, the ABS-equipped Express van very nearly killed me. When a Dodge Neon pulled out in front of me (oh the ignominy), the Express' ABS failed to even-out the braking force. The Express yawed to one side, and then the other, as the computer "compensated" noisily. The "moment" destroyed any feeling of safety for myself and my passengers, confirmed by screams from people who routinely face death by terrorist attack.
The number of quality issues on a 2007, 30k mile Express van- from side mirror that jiggled so much they were rendered useless, to rotting window seals– is astounding. If your church/team/organization owns a Chevrolet Express, SELL IT NOW. After spending three weeks with an Express, I am morally obliged to tell you that you are FAR better off walking than driving this rolling death trap.
Note to GM: fire the engineers responsible for the Chevrolet Express 3500 15-Pax van and remove it from sale. Anything less is an insult to the intelligence– and ongoing health– of the people who pay your salary.
103 Comments on “2007 Chevrolet Express 3500 Review...”
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I think the whole entire Boston Celtics team will fit in this van.
Congratulation to my Home town team the Celtics.
It’s been a very long time.
Wow, this reminds me of Consumer Reports saying that the Suzuki Samurai was too dangerous to allow on the road. This review should be disseminated widely, and perhaps elaborated on, the TTAC 800 word limit notwithstanding. Every year there are far too many fatal accidents involving vans like this.
I guess the design target with this vehicle was “old yellow school bus.” If that’s the case, I think they hit it spot on. I totally agree on the ergonomics on this one. I’ve driven quite a few of them, and it really feels like a puninshment. The lack of a handle anywhere is a huge mistake as well; I’m a big guy and I have a hard time getting in this beast.
There is no reason GM should build such a POS. Maybe the government should just have Toyota build the people haulers they need and take the political hit for it. I don’t even want to guess what the MPG or acceleration is for this tank, let’s hope it has a gigantic gas tank to go with it. Maybe Express refers to fuel consumption.
The Dodge version is even worse. It sports a monster back end that is almost as far from the rear wheels as the engine is. Passengers in the rearmost seats need barf bags.
The worst part is these vehicles cost a lot and the Gov’ment doesn’t get a decent deal at all.
That has to be the most acid laden review I have ever seen. Though I think it tells more about GM than about TTAC.
I think the mission of a 3500-series van is to both haul people and tow stuff. Suspension calibrations are tuned to match, though it is a little odd that it only came with the 5.3L. Is performance really that bad for a top-heavy truck?
Granted I’ve never driven the Express, but I’ve had rental Econolines and they drove fine for its design. Handling didn’t suck too bad if you treated it with respect.
I’m really inclined to drive this and the Econoline back to back now.
And hence the reason Ford’s Econoline thrives despite remaining largely unchanged for the last 86 years.
We have ones of these where I work and this is a very accurate review. What seems worse is when one rides in the rear passenger accommodations. The seat-belts follow through some sort Rube Goldberg-esque operation of slots and maneuvers to operate. The whole operation is counter-intuitive and seems ripe for a lawsuit. A classic area where no competition breeds no improvement.
I have an ‘03 1500 Express and I love it. It’s MUCH better than a half-ton pickup; 10′ of space behind the front seats and it keeps your stuff dry and cool/warm. I knew I’d be running empty most of the time so ordered the 4.3 engine and 3.42 rear end. Result, no power at all if I have any load, but I average about 19-20 mpg and about 20 on the highway at 70 mph.
Talked to a guy once at the dealer who buys a new 3500 cargo Express every other year. Says it has a great ride, as does mine, and gets good mileage.
The seats suck. They’re more like a stool, although soft. Tilt steering wheel is optional and even my stripper has reclining front seats.
In college I worked for a computer company that used these for local delivery/service. There were two nearly new Chevy “Express” and an old as dirt Ford Econoline (I think it was a 1994 model). The Econoline was the van of choice. It felt like driving a sports car compared to Express. The gas mileage in the Chevy was about 12 mpg, the Ford was around 14, so really not much difference, though people usually drove these things hard. The Chevy did have the Ford beat on the “OH SHIT I THINK I’M GOING TO DIE” aspect, and the cruise control is the worst of any car I have ever driven. When you set a speed the van tries to stay somewhere within 20mph (plus or minus) of that speed. A little slower sometimes, a LOT faster sometimes, but hey, you don’t have to hold the gas pedal down right? RIGHT? The transmission was rough as could be when it shifted too, one guy said it felt like riding a mechanical bull when trying to accelerate hard and was even worse when towing trailers. By comparison the 20 year old Ford was heaven, not to mention the seats were so worn they had that comfy old recliner feel to them.
By far the worst vehicle I have ever driven, but no one really buys these as personal vehicles unless they have 20 kids so I don’t really think they were aiming to make it that driveable.
@ Sajeev, The Ford E-Series vans are much better, as in they are actually stable. The ergonomics aren't much better, but the plastics are put together better, they hold up better, and the skid control actually works. Acceleration is also better, despite having fewer horses out of the 4.6L Triton. I've spent extensive amounts of time with the Econoline, Express, Ram Van, and Sprinter (as dictated by my job), and the Sprinter completely blows all of them away in every category, especially mileage. The Express we had got 12-14, the E-Series gets 16-17, and the Sprinter got 27mpg. (Can I use the word "better" any more? Need Starbucks to write better…. )
And they all cost roughly the same for the Govt and you @ $40,000 And the review wouldn't be so harsh if the van weren't so dangerous when it doesn't have to be…
just a thought,
perhaps the cr@ppiness of the van at 30k miles is as much due to its ‘owner’ and potential neglect/hoonage of its drivers who could care less about anything but getting the vehicle to the end of its trip, as it does about GMC….
When I was in the Marine Corps, they never bothered to buy vehicles with air conditioning. I remember the standard vehicle used by MP’s, officers, etc. was the Plymouth Reliant.
The Air Force has air conditioning, and drinks Starbucks? Well la-de-da!
taxman100:
They got to meet with all them fancy your-a-peein’ coalition forces guys.
You wouldn’t want a latte gap.
@ improvement_needed,
Yes, I thought of your exact comment. It must be the “drivers” of the van. However, my crew had 4 of these things, ranging from a “mint” condition 2K miles ‘08 Model to mine, the oldest with 30K. All had the side dents on the door from no door stop, and all had the poor build quality and crappy driving dynamics. Even the new one’s Skid-Control “malfunctioned” when it hit water on Nellis Blvd. I got to experience the “moment” full on while in the rear-most seat (holding onto the spare tire for dear life).
Aren’t Chevrolet Expresses, at least when in Airport Express guise, responsible for the deaths of countless passengers as a result of a myriad of highway collisions/rollovers/flipovers and fires?
That’s pretty much the first thing i think of when i see this van- “Our top story tonight”
I can’t speak for the Chevy but I think the Ford vans in stripper, work-truck trim are about as bad as the Chev in this review. Maybe the higher trim levels aren’t as crude. A friend has an E-250 with high miles (200K plus) and I feared for my life driving it. I felt like I was sitting in a hole (seemed like a very low driver position), surrounded by plast-crappiness, with questionable brakes and controls. My old ‘89 Ford Club Wagon however is a dream to drive and I can get 20 mpg highway if driven reasonably. It’s the old style w/o air bags, anti-lock brakes, skid control, etc.
We had an ambulance call to a minor New York Thruway accident awhile ago involving one of these, and it turned out to be filled with 15 Puerto Rican hookers on there way to Newburgh for TDY. None of them hurt, but we had a great time with their, ah, costumes. So these vans have lots of uses.
A review of an ‘07 cargo van as we’re heading into the ‘09 Model Year with a surplus of awesome cars still to be reviewed?…Did this site just Nuke the Fridge?
I like the Chevy Express. It’s way better to drive than the Econoline, gets decent economy, and, you know, does its job well. I haven’t driven the Sprinter, but I suspect that probably would be tops in this category.
So has anyone driven one of the European vans, like what is sold from Mercedes, Ford (europe), or Renault for example? How would these things compare to a Chevy or Ford US model.
I’ve rented a Mercedes and a Renault for moving furniture, and aside the rental grade swaths of plastic, I found that they were pretty good. You can’t expect that they would handle like cars, but I never felt in danger in them. I even had fun rowing the 6 speed manual transmissions. The engines got pretty decent mileage too, being of the diesel variant.
Mike Solowiow:
And they all cost roughly the same for the Govt and you @ $40,000 And the review wouldn’t be so harsh if the van weren’t so dangerous when it doesn’t have to be…
Maybe they doesn’t fit mission requirements, but you could get 2 slightly used Suburbans / Expeditions for that price…
@ Buick61
We like variety!
So I’m guessing it did not post a 0.95g on the skidpad?
Buick61
A review of an ‘07 cargo van as we’re heading into the ‘09 Model Year
That is true, but GM still lists the ‘07 model on their fleet sales web site!
In GM’s defense, I doubt they ever get feedback from the government on the design, nor do the “customers” ever get around to telling GM what they think of the vehicle. This is the first time I read a review of one of their generic vehicles, although I have experienced them firsthand. But the quality issues and door mistakes are inexcusable. Instead of asking Roger Clemmons if he juiced maybe they could ask GM if they were kidding when they built these things.
We had Dodge vehicles and a few chevy PU trucks in our motorpool. Since there was no way we were getting anything but standard american iron we put up with them. But I would never buy one myself.
In Germany we had a VW van that was diesel powered and speed limited to 62 MPH. That was torture on the autobahn as we were forced to the left and it slowed to 55 or less on hills.
Could we have a review of the Dodge Sprinter? That model is light years ahead of the Econoline/Express technically (unibody! economical diesel! four different body types!) but unfortunately it seems to be a stealth vehicle. Made in Europe so exchange rate is killing Chrysler, I bet, and no deals to be had at the dealership.
But a 1000 times better than Ford/GM product. Chrysler toyed with building them in the US back in the late 90’s but finally decided against it. If they had made the leap, they would own this market now.
These are the default vehicles for Prevost-deprived bands on tour. If they want to sell more to just-signed bands, they need more secret cubby holes for drugs and more piss bottle holders.
I’ve driven many different versions of these turdmobiles and eventually bought a Sausage Toupe 1500 Express 12 passenger, with the 350 and tow package.
It handles better than the Fords / Dodges I’ve driven / rented and gets better mileage for some reason (gets 15 towing a trailer filled with huge amps and drums 19-20 otherwise). The 350 is a beast and it has never stranded me or the bands in 170k, so far.
The Freightliner / Dodge / Mercedes “Lorry” van competition is much nicer, but it is even more top heavy.
NOTE: Comment strictly from a passenger point of view.
I haven’t actually driven any of these vehicles (thankfully) but I spend a lot of time riding in full size vans (hotel to airport crew shuttles) and have to agree with some of the previous posts: Sprinters are by FAR the better van. Fords are a distant 2nd, the Chevy’s are always crap, no matter how new they are. The only advantage they have over the Ford is the air conditioning seems to work a little better in the back rows. If the price is really anywhere near the Sprinters you would have to be nuts to buy the Ford or especially the Chevy. Can you get a DuraMax or a PowerStroke in these things? I know the Mercedes sourced diesel would certainly be a huge factor in my purchase decision if you can’t.
I don’t know what the cargo version comparison would be like, or what the actual economics of owning and operating any of thses things would be. But strictly from a passenger standpoint, the Chevy can’t compare to the Sprinter.
Sprinter design is unibody. Can’t handle loads like a full frame vehicle. Also, diesel not exactly in demand at this time. As far as different body types, GM van is available as pass or cargo, all wheel drive, regular length or extended, gas or diesel or Cutaway version in 3 different chassis lengths with single or dual rear wheels(box trucks, utility bodies).
The Freightliner / Dodge / Mercedes “Lorry” van competition is much nicer, but it is even more top heavy.
And way more expensive. I drove a Sprinter before I bought my Express. But it was almost $10k more and I didn’t like the idea of looking for a Freightliner dealer to service the thing; this was before Dodge got involved. I’d be concerned if I had one now with the questionable survival of Dodge as well. I don’t remember a gas engine being a Sprinter option back in late 2002, but I see it is now. But it comes with a 5.1 rear end which might make it a gas hog.
We see a lot of Sprinters in service for FedEx and UPS, so I guess the mpg advantage pays off with enough use
In my own opinion this van more safer than the Mercedez Sprinter. I see this van with disabled people and day care school bus but with windows though.
I wonder why they use this van for school bus if it’s really unsafe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dodge-Sprinter.jpg
After having driven one from San Francisco to Phoenix and back, I can safely say the long term review is no better than the initial experience.
Haven’t some school districts banned these because of their unstable handling?
I realize that these are intended to be utilitarian vehicles but…I’ve rented a few and they are atrocious. Anyone coming to one of these from a car will slam their door three times once they get going because the wind noise. Horrific build quality.
I’m waiting for the UPS truck review.
How sad! What do they think? People that need to haul lots of people don’t care about the vehicle. This sounds like the van you read about that went through a guard rail on a raining night killing all of the people go to either 1. Atlantic City or 2. a Church outing or 3. Boy Scout retreat. Gess so much for the A team notion of a van – GMC Vandura van.
Kill this before it kills you.
Idiots wreck these things constantly because they rent them. They jump in expecting to be able drive it like an Accord to Fat Camp or Scientology retreats. Physics is not their subject.
Turning corners turns the word “Express” into a cruel joke. There’s no steering feel. The ride’s bouncy enough to make Tigger nauseous. And the brakes are mushier than English peas. The Express’ tendency to leap into the air, jiggle the front wheels and then crash back on the pavement is a direct challenge to a jet pilot’s hand – eye coordination, especially at 70mph.
I thoroughly agree with you Mike. We have a fleet of them here where I work and everything you describe concerning the ride is spot on. Usually when the Express is loaded up, the ride softens a bit but then the van’s dynamic behavior turns mushy and dimwitted.
And don’t get me started on the interior.
For what it is (in our case the panel van version) the Express is good at what it does, but I would NEVER recommend it as a people carrier.
Haha great review, I love reading reviews of vehicles that NEVER POSSIBLY get reviewed anywhere else. Good call, and what a POS van!
It’s great to see a review of this ignominy on TTAC. For the last four years, I’ve worked for the transportation office at my college that has a fleet of 25 of these.
Myself and the other students I work with are responsible for the general maintenance of these, and things can be downright hilarious at times. We’ve gotten vans off of the truck (with less than 100 miles on them) that didn’t start. (We put 45k miles on these per year, and only keep them for two years, so you can imagine the type of problems we get to encounter). The horrendous build quality and lousy plastics would be forgivable if the mechanics were reliable. But they aren’t!
Year after model year we see the same transmission, engine, A/C, and suspension problems. Twice, the spare tire has fallen off when the van hit a bump, creating an accident for the car behind it. The ride quality is so poor that we have to keep someone on-call at all times to clean up puke. No joke.
Also, you mentioned that the back door hits the front, causing body damage. This is 100% true, as all of ours have had to be repaired for that at the end of the lease. GM does put in a detent stop to prevent the door from hitting the other, but it usually falls off after about a month of use. Not only does the back door swing into the passenger door, but it sometimes hits the front passenger as they exit the van.
Good stuff, this review really speaks the truth. If you dealt with the mechanical issues on a POS like this, you’d have even more to write about.
Ah 15 pax vans at Nellis. I could tell you some stories. With the a/c units in the vans always pumping out warm air I always wondered what the engineers were thinking during hot weather testing, “yeah that will do just fine”?? (that goes for Ford as well).
Do you know that all 14 of your passengers must be buckled in to drive 25mph around Nellis? Even if you are buckled you will still get a ticket for them. Ask me how I know that.
The old GM vans were stout…especially with the 6.2/6.5 diesel. Buddy had a 3/4-ton GMC Rallye Sport (he said it was top o’ the line) in high school, sat higher than any other non-lifted truck or suv. Had 420k KM on it and would smoke the tires! But the gearing limited it to 76mph, still hauled some heavy loads across the country.
Best part was the sticker he made for the rear window “Don’t laugh, your daughter may be in here”
At 26, and just out of med school, he replaced it with a Sprinter. Van-lovers…go figure.
This week I have painters at my house and they show up in a 6 month old (per head painter) Express van. One of the workers gets out of the van and immediately puts a drop cloth underneath the van between the front wheels to catch a leak. When I asked him what was going on, he said, “Yeah it’s leaking something, they all leak, we just don’t want to ruin your driveway.”
This is what you get when the Japanese don’t compete with the domestics in a market segment. The domestics get fat and lazy and build crap. I still don’t know why Toyota doesn’t sell their Hiace van in the US (which is basically a Toyota version of this type of thing, without the screaming).
virages :
June 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
So has anyone driven one of the European vans, like what is sold from Mercedes, Ford (europe), or Renault for example? How would these things compare to a Chevy or Ford US model.
I’ve rented a Mercedes and a Renault for moving furniture, and aside the rental grade swaths of plastic, I found that they were pretty good. You can’t expect that they would handle like cars, but I never felt in danger in them. I even had fun rowing the 6 speed manual transmissions. The engines got pretty decent mileage too, being of the diesel variant.
The Dodge Sprinter is a rebadged Mercedes van (although built in the US). It’s also usually considered to be the best in this segment, probably the only thing with a Dodge badge on it to make that claim.
NickR :
June 18th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Haven’t some school districts banned these because of their unstable handling?
It’s actually against federal law for a school district to use these to trasport students. (They don’t meet federal standards for a school bus.)
Several people have mentioned the Ford Econoline as being a better choice in this segment. I do not have any experience with the reviewed vehicle, but I have owned and driven the Econolines for several years. So without further ado …
Rob’s Ford Econoline(s) Review …
My first vehicle was a used 1985 Ford E-150 Conversion. Purchased it for ~$500 plus raking some leaves in 2003. Straight six, ~148″ WB, low miles (~70,000) captains chairs. Quite nice, except that the van had sat a while in NE air and the engine apparently suffered. I never really did find out what was wrong with the engine, but it was slow (the transmission would downshift to 3rd to try to maintain 80 mph) and it sucked down gas. Milage … let’s just say i was envious of 30′ RV’s. My best tank was ~8 mpg (with very conservative driving) and worst was near 6mpg … from the 4.9l I-6. The ride was ok, the brakes were OMG scary, and the handling was … fantastic! I’m talking drifting in sweeping turns, predictable (and extreme) body lean, slow yet communicative steering (for a boat). Tight turns yielded understeer, but in wider and faster turns, true drifting! I gained a rather poor reputation among friends and their parents for my driving. I loved hearing screams from passengers, the roaring engine, 4 screeching tires … ahhh. Too bad about the mileage – I sold that beast after only six months.
In 1993-94, my family bought the “new” Econoline with the 302 V8. My father still has the van. It gets decent mileage for it’s size (14-18), tows a bunch (~6300 lbs), and has the space that a family of six needed for road trips. Compared to the 1985 model that I had, this van has a nicer dash/interior (marginally), is quiter, faster, and has slightly better brakes. Unfortunately, I feel that the handling is worse. I’ve never had the desire/balls to drift it – it just doesnt feel as nimble as the older van (as nimble as a ~20′x7′x7′ box on wheels can feel). During it’s 15+ years of service, the van has needed a number of expensive repairs (tranny, countless alignments, rear AC tubes, 2 catback exhaust replacements, steering rack, etc), but is still quiet at reasonable speeds, comfortable riding, and uber capable (interior space, towing).
During undergrad, my school used E-350 econolines for transportation. These were well hooned vehicles! During my early years, the school had older 15 passenger versions with ~90,000 miles. Their brakes, suspension, and steering were as loose as … nevermind. Compared to the ‘84 and ‘94 vans in our family, my school’s early 2000 vans were noisy, tipsy, and generally crap. They rode roughly, yet could not handle for shit. They had upgraded brakes compared to my fams whips, but stopped poorly. In 2005, my school took delivery of brand new short wheelbase (148″) E-350 Econolines. The interiors (especially the dash) were worse than their earlier versions, but as new, they handled much better than the older and longer E-350’s. As you can imagine, they were not treated nicely … I had the privilege of testing the 0-60 time (~13 secs if i recall correctly), top speed (96 mph, closed course), ABS, and general handling abilities of one of the vans when it had some 20 miles on the odom. After 5,000 miles, the vans were looser than the 150’s in my family. Sure, the breaks were better than the 20 year older version i owned, but after 5,000 [admittedly brutal] miles, the suspension sucked, steering sucked – amazing that 20 years of “progress” yielded … nothing.
Final note: the interior comfort and safety were designed for masochists! Why ford can’t get the seating position right in such a large vehicle is amazing. Up front, the captain’s chairs were cumfy enough, but the footwells are narrow, and the brake pedal position is too high off the floor, making braking uncomfortable and unsafe. As for rear comfort … headrests? Nope. Reclined seating? Nope. Sufficient legroom? Nope. WTF! You look DOWN on full size SUV’s, have more interior volume than a large US house, and yet they still lack comfort!
@ Geotpf,
You are absolutely right. The Wellman-Union School District in West Texas (where my mom instructs all the kids on the benefits of science), sold all their E-Series vans under mandate from the state of Texas, and bought a fleet of Ford Excursions. Mom reports they are safer to drive, but are no more joyous, considering she’s only 5′0″, and can’t reach the pedals without risking eating an airbag.
These vans are holdovers from that period of time where the gov’t hadn’t fired up it’s safety machinery (i.e. mandating all kinds of safety items in a given vehicle) and the intended uses of the vehicles were pretty obvious. It’s plain to see that time has passed these vehicles and except for a few situations, their relevance is quickly passing.
I know a couple who have 10 children (that’s their business, not mine) and use an Express for their daily driver. It can easily accomodate any combination of riders and their cargo. With governmental mandates being what they are concerning car seats and the like, they would still have to have two Sequoias to fit all of the people when all of them are going somewhere. As they have reminded me, the only outings they attend ARE family outings, so the Express is rarely empty when moving.
At one time I worked for a delivery company driving the then-current cargo van version of these (and others) in all kinds of weather all over Northeast Ohio, so I have a fair amount of respect for their capabilities and their foibles. (My fave was the Dodge Supervan with 360 V8) Just like you wouldn’t use a Suzuki Samarai for autocross, you wouldn’t try any funky manuevers on cloverleafs with these vans, either.
Granted they may not have the best build quality, but what you’re purchasing here is the most people moving ability for a given size of vehicle, without buying something that’s yellow with flashing lights. I personally think there should be some sort of requirement for the safety of the rearmost passengers in these kinds of vans, but we drove around for many years with rear facing station wagons, and no one saw fit to enact legislation.
I think these things are few and far in-between, at least in the civilian world, and with gas prices continuing to increase, along with ‘minivan’ sizes, I can see where the retail versions will diminish in sales volume. As much as I fondly (?) remember my time with the vans, I won’t be too upset if they disappear from the roads. The Sprinter van is MUCH better and deserves to replace the existing North American passenger vans.
What my friend with all of the children will do is a different story. But I’ve already told him about the Sprinter, when the Express is ready for replacement.
This is a good microcosm of how the Big 3 screwed it up at the dawn of the Rising Sun back in the Seventies: no competition but each other.
The domestics know they have a captive market with good ol’ Uncle Scam buying the iron, no way would the Congress (especially a Democratic, union boot-licking Congress) kick out a big fleet contract to the imports, any imports. Look at the stink from the Airbus deal, that might not even go through because of the political backlash. This despite the fact Boeing had already screwed that contract up as a sure thing with criminal conduct in their contracts office and offer a plane (modded ‘67) that won’t carry as much gas, won’t carry as much cargo, won’t carry these reduced logistics as far, and would enter service two years later than the better Airbus plane. All those shortcomings at a slightly higher price. Even after all that, everyone is still screaming about “American jobs” and the like.
Frankly, as a guy who spent his stint turning wrenches on lawn darts the government isn’t very rational to begin with in purchasing anything it seems. One thing I’ve always wondered about are mail trucks. Anyone ever noticed they’re made by Grumman, maker of F-14’s and now part of Northrop Grumman? Hell, the things are riveted together like an airplane! How you get an airplane maker a contract to make a basic service delivery van you could’ve just bought is proof of how the government works (or doesn’t) when it comes to purchasing capital goods. Next thing you know, Buick will be making helicopters for the Forest Service, and no one else.
These 15 passenger vehicles, whether Fords, Chevs, Jimmies or Dodges are not legal for road use in Canada due to poor handling characteristics.
Point was driven home a winter or two back when a van from Maine brought up some hockey players for a game, and crashed with fatalities.
I see above that Texas feels the same way. Damn right. They are even worse than can be imagined with 15 people in them wondering if this is their last day on earth.
And you thought Detroit cared? Not even one tiny teensy little bit. Obviously.