By on January 25, 2022

For the first time since American muscle returned to the assembly line in earnest, Dodge’s Challenger has managed to outsell both the Ford Mustang and Chevrolet Camaro inside the United States. Though Mopar fans might point out that Dodge would win every year if we bothered to include Charger sales in the headcount or were more precise when making determinations about what constitutes a muscle vs pony car.

Regardless of semantics, the Big Three have their performance icons and the Challenger has taken the two-door sales crown for the first time in modern history. Sadly, it was less about Dodge making inroads with new customers than it was about the other brands flubbing things. Performance vehicles aimed at the middle class are presently experiencing a rough patch, with the Challenger having lost the least amount of ground in the last decade. 

Dodge’s crosstown rivals have been slipping the last few years — with Ford and Chevy’s most-recent highwater marks having taken place during the Obama administration. Blue Oval managed to move 122,349 Mustang domestically in 2015, while the Camaro peaked with 91,314 deliveries in 2012. During this period, Dodge’s Challenger could reliably count on between 40,000 and 60,000 U.S. sales annually.

In 2021, Mustang volumes had fallen all the way to 52,384 and the Camaro was only able to make 21,893 deliveries. Meanwhile, Dodge managed to sell 54,315 Challengers and another 78,388 examples of the Charger sedan to U.S. customers.

Image: FCA

Speculating as to why, your author would argue that Challengers simply make more sense as a commuter vehicle and are a relative bargain compared to what’s being offered by Ford and Chevrolet. They’re exceptionally comfortable, have gigantic trunks, and maybe the only coupe left in existence where you can comfortably seat full-grown adults behind the driver. Challengers also appear custom-made for prolonged stints on the highway, whereas the Mustang and Camaro seem more at home being slung around backroads. But there are plenty of people ready to tell you that the Dodge is too damn big, too damn old, and lacks the poise of its rivals — all of which are valid criticisms.

Dodge CEO Tim Kuniskis had his own ideas about why the Challenger has been holding its ground. During a recent interview, he told Automotive News that he believed his company weathered the supply chain problems better than its chief rivals. But he also said that he doesn’t really see the model as directly comparable. While undoubtedly a distinctly American performance vehicle, he said the Challenger’s greatest strength is “not trying to follow anybody else.”

“That’s why I said we don’t wake up trying to chase Mustang and Camaro,” he explained. “Not that I don’t think they’re viable competitors. They’re phenomenal cars; they’re just different cars. They’re different than what we’re trying to do.”

Kuniskis likewise discussed how Dodge has been building a community that he feels other marques lack. However the outward messaging has been changing as the company prepares to shift toward electrified vehicles.

2019 Dodge Challenger T/A 392

From AN:

The brand is expected to launch a plug-in hybrid model in 2022 and a battery-electric muscle car in 2024. It also will show an electric concept this year.

Redesigned versions of the Challenger and Charger are expected to drop internal combustion and move to Stellantis’ electrified STLA Large platform, which is capable of up to 500 miles of range.

Kuniskis said the brand’s track record should give fans reason to look forward to a future of electrified muscle.

“They acknowledge the fact that we do muscle cars different, and therefore we’ll probably do electrification different,” Kuniskis said. “And that’s why I’ve been very vocal to tell people when we do electrification, it will be different. When we launch our concept car here in the next four months or so, we’re literally going to lay out how we’re doing it differently.”

As a degenerate Mopar fan myself, I’m excited to see what Dodge has planned for the future. But I don’t know many people who are all that enthusiastic to see the Charger and Challenger dropping V8 engines. Something about the rumored turbocharged straight-six hybrid also feels sacrilegious and unsettlingly European. It might make for a stellar powertrain and even a better vehicle on the whole. But it feels at odds with Dodge’s existing branding and enthusiasts of a certain vintage are going to be turned off.

[Images: Dodge]

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113 Comments on “Dodge Challenger Finally Takes Sales Crown...”


  • avatar
    dal20402

    American masculinity has been getting more and more fragile, with ever-crazier displays of machismo required to compensate for its hollowness. Most of the buyers have gone to lifted pickups because those work better for the purpose. The few buyers that are staying in this class are choosing the Mopar products because they are the most over-the-top.

    It’s relatively easy to see why American men are so broken—traditional American ideas of manliness and a well-functioning modern society just aren’t really compatible, and the culture has emphatically refused to adjust—but hard to see how to fix the problem.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I think you’re straying into a whole other host of areas but I do agree Dodge on purpose comes off as the most over the top and ridiculous. That being said, and element of this may be people don’t like the Camaro or Mustang, or perhaps FCA can still get product to the dealers whereas its two domestic rivals are having more difficulty?

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        The Camaro is a pretty flawed product (due to the ergonomics, which may be the worst of any car currently on the market) but there isn’t anything seriously wrong with the Mustang given that it’s in this class. I think people just prefer the image the Challenger projects.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I think there could be an element of that, but in the case of Mustang I can’t get a V6 for any amount and it starts at $27,2 + dest for the I4 (36 for the GT). FCA starts the Challenger SXT at 29,5 with a V6… depending on my use case the Challenger is compelling for these facts alone.

          • 0 avatar
            Ol Shel

            It’s relatively cheap, practical enough, and perhaps most importantly, it’s trying to hold on to a romanticized past. Much like its buyers.

        • 0 avatar
          Matt Posky

          Nah. Controversial marketing aside, the Challenger is the most useful of the three by far. Good storage, super comfortable, great visibility. It’s only real drawback as a daily driver comes when you have to park it in a tight space. I also like the Mustang, which was always the default horse in the family’s stable throughout my childhood. But I would much rather own the Dodge today.

          I have no strong opinions about the Camaro. V8 models drive great and look cool but I’ve never enjoyed being inside of one during a standard journey.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “Nah. Controversial marketing aside, the Challenger is the most useful of the three by far. Good storage, super comfortable, great visibility. It’s only real drawback as a daily driver comes when you have to park it in a tight space.”

            This. It’s that simple. That woke nonsense in the first post is just laughably off base.

          • 0 avatar
            MRF 95 T-Bird

            I’ve been a Ford owner in good stead for years from Mustangs, a Cougar and couple of Thunderbirds.
            In late 2019 I wanted to upgrade from my 95 Thunderbird to a new Mustang so I went to a few area dealers but couldn’t find one with the option package to my liking. The base had a manual driver’s seat which seemed kind of cut rate. I wanted an Ecoboost premium but it had to be ordered.
            Instead I purchased a leftover 2018 Dodge Challenger GT awd with more options for less money at $28k which was $10k off of sticker that suits me well. It’s a practical muscle car that’s comfortable for my 6’2 self with decent passenger room plus a nice sized trunk.With the folding rear seat I’ve hauled long items like wall art with no issues. The AMC Eagle SX4 that I could and should have bought 30 years ago.
            I could see going for it’s replacement in a few years if it’s a trimmer, better handling but just as roomy car based on the Giorgio Platform.

          • 0 avatar
            Lorenzo

            How times change. The Challenger is “too damn big, too damn old”? In the 1960s it would be a mid-size car, a big downsizing from the full size cars of the 1960s and ’70s.

            It’s actually 7 inches shorter than my 1968 Mercury Montego MX, bought in 1971, the same width and wheelbase as the MX. I thought the MX was compact and nimble after driving a 1965 Impala sedan. Parking was easy, since spaces were sized for full sized cars.

            Too old? The perimeter frame on that 1965 Impala was still in use on GM pickups decades later. How long did GM make the TH400 transmission? How long were the Torqueflite variants in use?

            Could it be the components are tried-and-true? What’s wrong with having an ample supply of used parts? That’s the definition of a model that’s a keeper.

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          Sometimes a car is just a car. If you want a “cruiser” 2-door and don’t have a $75K budget then it’s either the Challenger or classic car plates. The Dodge is as much a Cutlass Supreme or Thunderbird as it is a Mustang.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I mean, on the one hand, you guys are right: the Challenger is roomier and is available with a floaty suspension tune if you want it.

            On the other hand, I continue to think it’s image, not practicality, driving the sales. You don’t see Dodge ads showing big pictures of the Challenger’s back seat and trunk.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            What’s happening in the Mustang and Camaro ads? I assume it is also revving engines and/or burnouts.

            I just find it hard to believe that a Challenger buyer finds a “Shock and Steel” edition Camaro or a Grabber Yellow Mach 1 to be too demure. However, I do believe a Challenger buyer could find the Chevy and Ford too cramped.

        • 0 avatar
          tomLU86

          Flawed ergonomics? Do you mean the mail slot trunk opening or smallish rear seat? Or the appearance? (I’m not a huge fan…)

          Have you driven or rented one?

          The ergonomics are fine for the driver. One can question the cartoonish appearance, but the layout is decent–not irritating, to me at least.

          The car magazines say the Alpha chassis has superlative ride and handling. I don’t drive many cars, so I can’t compare, but I liked the newer V6 Camaro I drove. My brother thinks the current V8 Camaro is the best car he has ever owned (doesn’t live in the snow belt…)

          The Challenger is too big–as a sporty car. But it looks great from a distance, and while they may not advertise the back seat and trunk, they are good sized and large and big selling point compared to the other two.

          I rented a V6 Mustang a few years ago. I like the interior appearance, but disliked the control locations. It drove like a 2012 V6 Camaro.

          I think Camaros and Mustangs are the among the last 4-cyl and V6 cars available with a manual trans.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I’ve driven several V6 Camaro rentals, and there are two huge problems: 1) lack of even marginally acceptable visibility because of the extremely high beltline and 2) bizarre secondary control placement.

            It’s a shame as the chassis really is great and the V6 is an underappreciated engine with a wide powerband and tons of grunt.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          The biggest factor for Camaro lagging in 3rd place has been the Alpha chassis – which makes the rear compartment practically useless aside from storing things.

          The Camaro is the best handler of the 3, but most buyers would rather have more practicality (meaning a useable rear passenger compartment and the Challenger is by far the best out of the 3), which is why Camaro sales started to drop after the switch to the Alpha platform.

          Stellantis also weathered the chip shortage better.

        • 0 avatar
          nrd515

          I hate almost everything about the Camaro, except it’s a great driver. The looks? Awful. The comfort isn’t there, the trunk is semi-useless. It was off my list of possible cars to buy the first time I saw the pics of the soon to be released ’10 model. I don’t like the Mustang’s looks, never really have, and besides, I don’t think I could ever pop $40k+ on a Ford, too many bad memories of dad’s T-Birds and all their issues when I was a kid.
          The Challenger looks good, has plenty of room, a great trunk and it was the easy choice in ’10 and again in ’18.

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      CAFE combined with feminism to pummel the American he-man. That is why a pre-1973 driver quality muscle car sells for like $50,000 now. It is the Boomers taking their final opportunity to savor their last hydrocarbon infused gulps of that lost manliness.

      Subsequent generations have been collectively neutered to the point where that has less appeal, and may indeed come with a lot of guilt. But the sales of this Challenger, which offers no apology for its unmistakable masculine overtures, shows me that there still is some spunk left. Pun absolutely intended.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        There’s no reason manliness requires spewing pollution into the air.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        @Superdessucke: “CAFE combined with feminism to pummel the American he-man”

        I’m probably the guy you think is “neutered”: I’m a liberal married to a feminist with a PHD. She has a higher degree than I do, and makes more money than I do. We have three kids, two high-paying jobs, and we’ve lost the appreciation we used to have for Rural American culture.

        We just ordered a Tesla.

        I’m too busy raising my family and making money to really care what other people think about my masculinity. Which is as it should be: all of that male posturing is about showing you’ll be man enough to raise a family. When you already have a family, you prove you’re man enough to raise a family by raising the family you have.

        My feminist wife is paying for her half of our family-spec 7-seat Tesla Model Y. I’m pretty sure our little green family hauler will be able to take most of the cars that you “automotive he-men” are driving on the track, and I’m really looking forward to getting off of the gas-prices roller-coaster. But that’s not the point: my kids deserve to live in a low-carbon world, so we’re taking a serious step in that direction. And, yes, the car itself is really cool too.

        The main thing this car will do is support our household by getting people where they need to go, and making it easier to address our day-to-day needs. We use this car to care for our family.

        All y’all can channel your masculinity into automotive peacocking if you like — it’s ridiculous, but it’s a free country and you can be ridiculous if you want to. But, for me, my idea of masculinity is to take care of my family as best I can — and if that’s “neutered” to you, I’m just too busy raising my family and making money to care.

        See y’all — in our rear-view mirror.

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        Not much of a “man” in the 1st place if women wanting equal rights/treatment is such a threat.

        Plus, that narrative doesn’t quite fit with pick-up/SUV sales which have never been better.

    • 0 avatar
      pmirp1

      dal20402, We all know you run away from a fight. Rest of us men defend this country to death.

      • 0 avatar
        Nick_515

        dal nailed it upfront. astute and compelling analysis.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “dal20402, We all know you run away from a fight. Rest of us men defend this country to death.”

        You don’t expect him to break a nail do you?

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        You say that and then all you can muster are laughable Trump Trucks full of boogaloo boys who p!ss their pants when they’re confronted with the tiniest of real disturbances and run crying to Fox News with camera footage.

        I’ll make you a deal. Drop both of us in the most neglected part of East St. Louis at two in the morning and see which of us (1) is less afraid and (2) makes it out without a scratch.

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          “I’ll make you a deal. Drop both of us in the most neglected part of East St. Louis at two in the morning and see which of us (1) is less afraid and (2) makes it out without a scratch.”

          Deal. But you can’t call the police when your wig gets snatched. Because, you know, “defund, dismantle, eliminate”

      • 0 avatar
        probert

        like jan6? Making the death happen faster.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        I swore in my reply and so it got caught in purgatory, but the short version is: I’d take my chances over yours if you dropped both of us in the worst part of East St. Louis at 2 a.m.

        • 0 avatar
          pmirp1

          dal20402, we already know you run away from fights in Seattle. In East St. Louis you do the same.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Does everything always have to be a fight?

            I’ve made a lot of money in my career resolving fights, and the ways to do it work just as well on the street as they do in the boardroom.

            That said, if your silly Trump Trucks come into our city and try to cause trouble, we’re ready. Funny how you can’t make up your mind whether we’re a bunch of lawless antifa hooligans or a bunch of wilting daisies.

          • 0 avatar
            Superdessucke

            If anyone cares, I actually drive a Hyundai and a Subaru. Both 4-cylinders. I am not endorsing any particular viewpoint, just merely making observations of American history. Carry on.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @dal20402 – there is something to be said for cultural changes affecting the definition of masculinity. Overcompensation has always been a meme in relation to performance/pony/muscle/sports cars and large pickups. Modded “offroaders” and rollin’ coal lifted trucks are typically the modern equivalent of 60’s era traditional muscle cars.

      Mustang and Camaro both have small interiors which aren’t very friendly to every day use. That relegates them to single person status or third car drive on sunny days toy. Those that have been completely unaffected by the turmoil of the past several years probably aren’t in the Mustang or Camaro demographic.

      One can brag about claiming the muscle car crown but that’s like bragging about having terminal cancer with the longest lifespan.

    • 0 avatar
      SoCalMikester

      whats the first thing that went through heather heyers head? challenger windshield

      • 0 avatar
        pmirp1

        Dal20402, This has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with your statement about “American masculinity is getting more fragile”. Trying to somehow connect that to love for a Challenger.

        You are exactly what is wrong with this country, weak. Don’t defend your weakness by connecting it to politics.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @pmirp1 – On the subject of weak, looks like @Dal20402 struck a nerve.

          • 0 avatar
            pmirp1

            Lou_BC, he is trying to take topic of a great sales story in Dodge Challenger, and somehow associate it with his liberal social thinking/values. That is why I retorted against his statements, and he doesn’t like it. Like most liberals, he can’t take the heat.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            If I were picking 1 of these 3 cars I would pick the Challenger even though I have reservations about Stelantis products. More interior room, bigger trunk , better highway ride, and like the looks better. I would pick the V6 because it has more than enough power. I am not that concerned about being macho man.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          Kicked dogs holler.

    • 0 avatar
      MitchConner

      That’s some state of the art Cal Berkeley thinking going on there.

      Check out this video of one of their lectures. Covers the same ground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR_Bs-xGy9o

      Dang. Forgot to put a trailer hitch so I can hang some big rubber nuts from the back of my Challenger. You know, to project my fragile, empty masculinity. Gotta run.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @pmirp1 – overcompensation has been an ongoing meme for decades. His first post mentioning fragile masculinity had zero political intonation. That came after you said “we already know you run away from fights in Seattle”.

        Once again, you had the responses indicating fragility, not him.

        • 0 avatar
          pmirp1

          Lou_BC, yeah right, has nothing to do with American masculinity. But for weak people like Dal that is something that they want to talk about. AGAIN, READ. He started it.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @pmirp1 – “He started it.” Once again, thanks for demonstrating “fragile American masculinity”.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            A true tough guy never says how tough he is. People know. And a weak person continually mentions how tough they are. That is called overcompensation.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Arthur Dailey – agreed. My dad would say, “Don’t act tough. There’s always someone out there who’s tougher”.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      @dal:

      I don’t know why you need to make this toxic-masculinity thing – there are plenty of women who drive these. I used to work with a VERY attractive forty-something lady who rocked a Challenger SRT (manual, natch) named “Queen Bee.”

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    I think you’re straying into a whole other host of areas but I do agree Dodge on purpose comes off as the most over the top and ridiculous. That being said, and element of this may be people don’t like the Camaro or Mustang, or perhaps FCA can still get product to the dealers whereas its two domestic rivals are having more difficulty?

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    “Redesigned versions of the Challenger and Charger are expected to drop internal combustion and move to Stellantis’ electrified STLA Large platform, which is capable of up to 500 miles of range.”

    So they are being discontinued then? That might explain the sales bump for current models.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Well done, Stellantis.

  • avatar
    Lichtronamo

    I’d be interested in seeing the retail v. fleet sales numbers for each. It’s not a complaint as fleet sales probably keeps all of these viable in the market. I’ve found the Mustang to be a good choice for a rental if you can get a GT – they tend to be in the same class as the Ecoboost. I’ve never driven a Challenger before and have one reserved for a trip to PHX this weekend.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      “I’ve never driven a Challenger before and have one reserved for a trip to PHX this weekend.”

      If you have time, I recommend heading north to Sedona. The brewery has some good food, good beer, and good times… just try to ignore all of the other weird sh!t around and know the rear parking lot of that plaza is not very big.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      ” I’ve never driven a Challenger before and have one reserved for a trip to PHX this weekend.”

      I rented one when I went all over south Florida. Miami, Key West (a few times) and over to Fort Myers. Just a HEMI R/T, but it was amazingly comfortable, got 30+ MPG average, sounded absolutely heavenly, and overall was very fun. I couldn’t imagine giving up that V8 sound for some beta electric POS. Only complaint was the base radio. Completely unacceptable or it had been blow to bits by a previous renter.

      • 0 avatar
        redapple

        With 30 mpg on a V 8, why the move to BEV?
        Oh, I know.
        So China, India and Russia can have $0.05 /KwH electric ( from coal ) while ours goes to $0.35 /KwH ( from bird choppers connected to Rube Goldberg batteries ).

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Ford and Chevy sell tons of Mustangs and Camaros to fleets as well. I suspect it’d be a wash.

  • avatar
    probert

    needs more scoops

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    In Atlanta, young African American men love Chargers and Challengers. Bravo. Also, the base engine is a solid Pentastar V6. Another Bravo.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    The I-6 turbo hybrid sounds interesting. Nothing wrong with having an economical daily driver with some pickup and smooth power delivery.

    Some of the old Slant Sixes could be built nicely.

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    I wonder what type car people who don’t like Challengers and Chargers like?

    Prius?
    Electric?
    old Lexus?
    VWs?
    Subaru?
    Volvo?

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Hmm. I like Challengers and electric… so confusing.

      I’m not a fan of the Charger’s looks, though, just what’s underneath.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      They like having their nails done, minivans, shoe shopping, anything recommended by their bible Consumer reports, nothing American (as you noted), etc.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      I’m probably the loudest Challenger-disliker on this site and I like lots of things:

      – Electric cars
      – Mustangs
      – Old Hondas and Acuras
      – Old Cadillacs
      – Current Audi and Volvo interiors
      – BMWs with the correct number of cylinders (6) and pedals (3)

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      @pmirp1:
      “I wonder what type car people who don’t like Challengers and Chargers like?”

      Me.

      I’m a green-car enthusiast. I’m not in to muscle cars.

      Buying big ICE engines is a checkwriting contest, and you never really win one of those. I don’t see any reason to play that game.

      Resource-optimization, though, is an intelligence test. I find that much more interesting, because throwing money at the problem doesn’t solve it — you have to be clever to be thrifty.

      I find the Prius much more interesting than the Charger, because it’s a bloody clever vehicle and really good at what it does — but the performance comes from unexpected places.

      I find EVs more interesting than hybrids.

      No shade on the muscle car scene, but it’s a mostly solved problem — and the innovation is happening elsewhere these days.

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      Who doesn’t like an old Lexus?

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “I wonder what type car people who don’t like Challengers and Chargers like?”

      I’m not a fan of them. I’m not a fan of most cars built after 1969. The only new stuff I’d be interested in would be a F250/350 Tremor, a Power Wagon, Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, Bronco Sasquatch, Jeep Gladiator Rubicon, and Colorado ZR2. Notice a pattern? Any new car I look at gets compared to various motorcycles I’d be interested in. A motorcycle wins that comparison every time. Oh and big touring/cruiser V-twins need not apply. I’d buy a car before one of those bloated abominations.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      I like the C5 that I got when I unloaded the Challenger. It was a comfy cruiser, but it was no fun at legal speeds and you couldn’t see out of it worth a darned. I didn’t hate it, but it just didn’t do it for me.

  • avatar
    JMII

    The Challenger is larger on the inside thus its more comfortable for the typical American. Also while Camaro and Mustang models have upgraded models that are track focused Dodge just gives you more power.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    I like this brick

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      I can take it or leave it. [shrug]

      The EV I have on order will leave most Challenger trims in the dust. [shrug]

      I’d rather live in the future than in the past.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        I like the roar, the feel of engaging of the clutch. Best!

        • 0 avatar
          Luke42

          @Slavuta,

          I enjoyed becoming a skilled manual-transmission driver, but my skills are now obsolete.

          Manual and automatic exist to overcome the fact that ICE engines are poorly marched to driving wheels. For instance, they can’t start and stop — and their torque/RPM sweet spots don’t match the speed the wheels need to turn. Hundreds of pounds of mechanical gearing is required to fix that problem.

          EV drivetrains don’t have this problem. A fixed reduction gear is all that’s needed — like a differential, basically.

          As such, my clutch skills, that I’m quite proud of, are now obsolete. When the World changes, I adapt.

          I don’t care for the roar. I’ve hated every V8 I’ve ever owned — they’ve all been in pickup trucks, so it’s a.lots of sound and fury that provides a poor power-to-weight ratio. The hybrid system attached to my current 6L V8 is less hateable than the conventional V8s I’ve driven on the same chassis.

          The EV future can’t arrive soon enough for me. My EV future is scheduled to arrive in less than 6 months, according to my Tesla reservation tracker.

          You’ll see me on the highway, but you’ll never hear me coming. Smooth silent torque. _-_- smooth -_-_

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Luke42

            Intercourse is obsolete. It was needed to advance the specie. Then it was needed to create helping hands on the farms. It was needed until we found other methods of insemination. It was really inefficient. First you go to a date, then give presents to a woman, take her places, then first kiss and finally it culminates in intercourse.
            Now, a child-wanting woman can go to a sperm bank and get inseminated in minutes. And it will be very stealthy. Her friend might never even know because they don’t see her dating, let alone getting married.

            PS: My music can be loud enough not to hear anything anyways.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            I miss the manuals as well but it is getting harder to find them. For now I am content with what I have and look forward to taking delivery of my new hybrid Maverick in March with 42 mpgs. I am glad the muscle cars still exist but I don’t want one. Not as interested in how many seconds it takes to get from 0 to 60 as long as the vehicle has decent acceleration.

  • avatar
    tankinbeans

    If it rides half as well as the 300S V6 I can see the appeal. Different beasts, appealing to different markets to be sure, but my frame of reference includes the 300S that I drove for awhile. It was huge and I felt reasonably efficient for its size. When I looked, I wanted a Challenger, but finances wouldn’t have worked since they weren’t dealing.

    The one nit to pick, and yes this led to me unloading it, was the infotainment system (there’s a portmanteau that can go straight where the sun don’t shine). I would regularly be driving down the road when it would start buzzing at top volume. Always a good time for the 3 miles during rush hour that the radio would glitch. Shutting the car off didn’t help, holding the power button didn’t help, the dealer couldn’t have given less of a deux.

    Were it not for that issue, I’d likely still have it. I presume uConnect has gotten better in the intervening years.

  • avatar
    MitchConner

    Had a 2014 Camaro 1LE 6 speed. Could never get its hair trigger clutch the way I liked it. Couldn’t trust it as a result. A real comedown from the 6 speed in my 2004 Pontiac GTO — as its 6 speed manual with a short shifter was downright telepathic.

    Eventually got a 2017 Challenger SRT with 8 speed auto. Also have a 2019 Mustang GT Convertible with the 10 speed auto. Didn’t need it — but got it for $27K with 11K on the clock during the depths of the initial Covid scare. Also had $10K in suspension, brake, and wheel and tire upgrades. Was the dealer’s wife’s car. Too good of a deal to pass up.

    Of the three, the Challenger’s by far the best car. Best interior. Best features. Best exhaust note. Looks great in Octane Red with the hyper black Hellcat wheels. Other cars might handle better — but I’m not tracking anything and could care less if I get somewhere .005 seconds quicker because of the way it handles exit ramps.

    Started liking the Challenger after the 2015 design tweaks came out. The Hellcat wheels were quite nice. The new interior was a lot better. Brampton does a great job of screwing them together as well.

    If I were to go and order anything right now, I’d get a Charger Jailbreak widebody with the satin Hellcat 20 x 11 wheels. Maybe next year — but only if the prices settle down a bit. Don’t care for the hood on the Hellcat Challengers. Can’t get leather in the Scat Packs — and the bee logos are kind of dumb, anyway.

    The Mustang is an excellent car — but there’s no way I’m paying anywhere near $60K for one. Camaros just get dumber every passing year.

  • avatar
    MrIcky

    I have a 2014 RT manual. 80k miles- has been absolutely trouble free (really-nothing but fluid, tires, and brakes at 50k) and fun to drive. It was a late 14 and has the ‘track pack’- which may be an optimistic name but it handles great in that 7-8/10ths zone and it just eats long highway drives. I have snow tires and drive it year round except in the very worst stuff. 5/5 would buy again.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Back in 2011, my company sent me for a three-week training in Jacksonville, and I drew a Hemi powered Challenger as a rental. I have no idea if there’s some kind of statute on limitations for abusing a rental car, so I’ll just say it was a good three weeks. And when I bought my GLI last year, I toyed with the idea of the AWD V-6 version. But I remembered the Challenger’s major shortcomings: it’s HUGE, and it wasn’t fond of corners.

    Not for me – I’d be in a Mustang, which is drop dead sexy and handles better. But the Challenger definitely has its’ charms.

    • 0 avatar
      JMII

      “it’s HUGE, and it wasn’t fond of corners”

      As I said above I think this is the appeal of the Challenger. Its the perfect stop light racer and the softer suspension make it more comfortable. The Camaro is too cramped with poor visibility. Out of all of them I believe the Mustang is the better car, but I got a C7 because I could less about back seats and prefer the hatch configuration.

    • 0 avatar
      MRF 95 T-Bird

      Back in 2018 I was on vacation in Denver and needed a rental. I got from Hertz the Challenger Hemi which bemused me because I thought they just rented the SXT or GT version.
      It was an enjoyable highway cruiser especially on 75 to Wyoming. Renting it helped to make me decide to purchase my 2018 GT awd in late 2019. It’s always advisable to rent a vehicle on vacation or even for a day before you settle on one.

  • avatar
    macmcmacmac

    Challenger FTW!

    Maybe it’s because a Challenger seems like a car built by a company that still enjoys building cars. Look at that front end, it seems to me to be saying, “Why so serious dude?”.
    It’s a one car parade, warts and all.

    Plus DEMON.
    Plus HELLCAT.
    Plus Red Eye.
    Plus $OBVIOUS_PANDERING _TO_BASER_INSTINCTS

    It’s a tragedy what’s happening to Mopar. They still knew how to have fun.

    If I had FU money I’d have one in every colour. The I’d drive like an a-hole, as if I was in a German car or Subaru.

  • avatar
    Skippity

    MRF 95 T-Bird
    If it shrinks being on the Giorgio Platform I think it’ll suffer.

  • avatar
    TMA1

    I’m not really getting the “over the top” sentiment. It’s very rare to see a Go Mango or Plum Crazy Hellcat rolling down the stree. Most Challengers are monochromatic V6 cars that go unnoticed as they do their thing.

    That said, I still plan to buy a Scat Pack w/Shaker Hood in Indigo Blue because that bee logo once adorned the grille of a ’69 Super Bee that turned me into a car guy, and I don’t like the current scoop hood that comes on those cars. The Shaker actually looks more subdued to me. If I could get the plain hood they were offering a few years ago, I would do that.

    To keep the testosterone and toxic male rage in check, I’ll still drive the Miata from time to time.

  • avatar

    I would prefer a muscle car any day to a truck with poor handling and a rough ride. A few years-ago I was helping with a move, and we used a F-150. It was one of the most uncomfortable rides I have ever experienced.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Here’s a maroon Dodge Challenger in the news:

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/north-las-vegas/9-dead-in-north-las-vegas-crash-involving-speeding-2521066/

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