By on February 23, 2021

The Cherokee Nation has requested that Jeep change the name of some of its vehicles. While you can probably guess which ones are causing offense, it should be stated that the automaker has been utilizing the Cherokee name to evoke a sense of power and natural harmony for over 45 years. But nobody is going to argue that native peoples have a decided advantage in who has first dibs on the title, especially in a time of unprecedented tensions regarding what’s deemed racially insensitive.

Chuck Hoskin, Jr., principal chief of the Cherokee Nation, certainly seems to think Jeep crossed a line. This is actually the first time the group has ever asked Jeep to change a vehicle’s name, though Jeep has also gone on record numerous times to defend its use.

The usual playbook involves Jeep assuring the media that the Cherokee name was always selected as a way to honor the Cherokee people’s strength and tenacity. But this time could be different with the Cherokee Nation using some fairly strong words while asking for the company to take specific actions. It’s also hard to argue for their not having a say in the application of a name they’ve been using since before people even had the capacity to dream up the automobile.

“I’m sure this comes from a place that is well-intended, but it does not honor us by having our name plastered on the side of a car,” Hoskin told Car and Driver in a written statement responding to the tribal request. “The best way to honor us is to learn about our sovereign government, our role in this country, our history, culture, and language and have meaningful dialogue with federally recognized tribes on cultural appropriateness.”

This is part of a larger initiative on behalf of the Cherokee Nation to convince corporations to end their use of native names and mascots. While numerous tribal organizations have opposed such programs by suggesting they are markers of national pride in a people that deserve recognition and respect wherever possible, the dominant narrative among many tribes and social justice activists is that it would be better to simply stop using native terms outside of predominantly native groups.

“I think we’re in a day and age in this country where it’s time for both corporations and team sports to retire the use of Native American names, images and mascots from their products, team jerseys and sports in general,” Hoskin explained.

From Car and Driver:

According to Amanda Cobb-Greetham, a professor at the University of Oklahoma and director of the school’s Native Nations Center, the use of Native imagery in sports and popular culture started around the turn of the 20th century. At that time, there were fewer than 300,000 Native Americans living in the United States. “Because of the prevalence of the ideology that Native peoples would eventually disappear . . . Native Americans became part of the national mythology of the frontier and the west and the settlement of America,” Cobb-Greetham said. “And that’s when suddenly you have Native American mascots and products, cultural kitsch. Car names are a part of that.”

Jeep first used the Cherokee name in a 1974 two-door wagon (one available trim was called Cherokee Chief). It has since built cars called Cherokee continuously, but from 2002 through 2013 the cars were known as the Liberty in the North American market. When Jeep brought the Cherokee name back to its U.S. in 2013, a Cherokee Nation representative told the New York Times, “We have encouraged and applauded schools and universities for dropping offensive mascots,” but that “institutionally, the tribe does not have a stance on this.”

While Hoskin has spent a large part of the year advocating for COVID vaccines and trying to manage the response in regard to native groups, he has likewise taken a much stronger stance on what he views as cultural appropriation ever since Black Lives Matter put a spotlight on racial issues in America over the summer. “We hope the movement away from using tribes’ names and depictions or selling products without our consent, continues. We much prefer a cooperative effort than an adversarial one,” Hoskin said in 2020.

Ironically, the use of native iconography exploded in the early 20th century as a way to preserve and honor what many Americans assumed was a vanishing culture. But the tone of the country has shifted over the last 100 years and many now view those actions as insensitive. Though universal acceptance of the practice never truly existed among the tribal group at any point we’re aware of.

Other tribes have expressed support for the Cherokee Nation’s sovereignty, including those that don’t see a reason for anyone to take offense. Meanwhile, Jeep has reiterated that its vehicle names are carefully chosen to “honor and celebrate Native American people for their nobility, prowess, and pride,” adding that it looked forward to having an open dialogue with Principal Chief Chuck Hoskin, Jr.

Considering how important the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are for Jeep, we doubt it’s interested in changing their names. Cynically, we’re going to presume the automaker will pay some kind of tribute to the Cherokee Nation (e.g. scholarship programs, commitments to tribal lands) so it can get the “necessary consent.” But that might be for the best since it could be argued that Jeep was profiting from a name that many will argue didn’t belong to it for decades.

[Images: Jeep]

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167 Comments on “Cherokee Nation Leader Suggests Jeep Reconsider SUV Names...”


  • avatar
    Chocolatedeath

    This conversation is not going to go well on this site.

    • 0 avatar
      whynotaztec

      Best comment I have read in a while, also congrats on being so quick.

    • 0 avatar
      Imagefont

      Personally I’m in favor of the trend toward respect and correctness. The removal of confederate monuments and the renaming of all things Lee and Grant and Davis is good and necessary. I just never realized how many there were – just absurd. Native Americans deserve respect and high regard and no one should be denigrating tribal names by assigning them to a car from Stallantis. It’s time, and it’s been time, and they should just do it without being asked twice.
      Boycott Stellantis.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        Jeep using the name Cherokee on vehicles is quite a few time zones away from blatant “whites only” discrimination of the past and a few solar systems away from starting a secessionist war in defense of slavery. The Principal Chief here even acknowledged that Jeep’s usage “comes from a place that is well-intended”.
        This also occurred just on Monday afternoon, and Jeep is planning to talk with Mr.Hoskin about the situation. Maybe they’ll change the name, maybe they’ll come to some arrangement, maybe they’ll keep the name despite the tribe’s objections. I’d say at least give it a few days before you take up your pitchfork.

        • 0 avatar
          Imagefont

          They shouldn’t have to be asked, nice or otherwise. It’s not like they’re shocked and had no idea. They should have done it a long time ago. Jeez, think up some new names, is it that damn hard?
          Have you ever met a Native American?

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “It’s not like they’re shocked and had no idea.”
            I could be wrong, but I believe this is the first time the Cherokee have asked Jeep to change the name. The article also states that in 2013 there was no official tribal stance on the name. It *is* hard to completely change the name of two product lines, but I expect they’re working something out.

            “Have you ever met a Native American?”
            I have. Further, I have enough respect for those friends and colleagues to not treat them as a single-mind, single-region, single-tribe monolith. If you know Mr.Hoskin then please invite him to write a TTAC editorial, otherwise I don’t see the relevance.

          • 0 avatar
            RedRocket

            Why would you deny Cherokee Nation the opportunity to negotiate a lucrative long-term licensing and royalty deal with Stellantis?

      • 0 avatar
        Oberkanone

        Taliban agrees with you. Destruction of monuments good. History bad!

      • 0 avatar
        teddyc73

        @ Imagefont…Personally I find people like you insane. Erasing history one name at a time. You are part of the plague of liberalism destroying this nation, tearing it apart, and turning it into a population of triggered “snowflakes”. It is a name on a car. That’s all. The people who chose it decades ago did not do so to insult a tribe of people. People like you and your insipid thinking just astound me. You brain has turned to Aunt Jemima syrup. I wonder how you feel about insulting depictions of Jesus.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Imagefont,

        “The removal of confederate monuments…is good and necessary.”

        Disagree. If you really want to follow that thread then we would have to erase anything that refers to the Civil war. These monuments and what they stand for are (for better or worse) part of the history of this country. If you want to have any freedom to express yourself you will have to learn to deal with others saying things you disagree with and/or find offensive other than by self-righteous attack. Insisting that no one be allowed to say anything that you find offensive is very childish and antithetical to freedom of speech.

    • 0 avatar
      Pig_Iron

      Stellantis is headquartered in France.
      French Pres. Macron says American woke theories threaten France – American Military News

  • avatar
    Cicero

    Note to Chrysler: “Uzbek” is available and for half the grift that the Indians want.

  • avatar
    ajla

    I expect Jeep will change the names. Probably to “Liberty” and “Grand Liberty”.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I’ve never heard of Mr. Hoskin but depending on his background he may be sincere or simply be trying to shake down a conglomerate as the self described “trained Marxists” did last year. Should Stellantis acquiesce this request I challenge Mr. Hoskin to legally change his name to whatever his tribal name happens to be, because it was clearly culturally appropriated.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        28-Cars-Later,

        Also, while we are on the subject of “cultural appropriation,” I feel I must bring up the fact that a lot of people of non-European descent are wearing clothing of a type with roots in Europe. I mean if we are going to scour the earth for everything we can complain about, why miss that?

        But, then again maybe we should be careful. After all we use Arabic numerals.

        What will be the new names of Massachusetts, Penobscot Maine, the Mohave desert, the Quinnipiac River, Alaska, Oklahoma, etc.? Maybe to play it safe the thing to do would be just to use numbers instead of names for places. But, that brings us back to Arabic numerals.

        Probably the best solution would be for people to stop running around looking for things to get in a snit about.

    • 0 avatar
      Oberkanone

      Why not Casino?

    • 0 avatar
      MRF 95 T-Bird

      After the legendary XJ Cherokee was dropped in 2001 it’s meh replacement was the KJ Liberty. I always had the impression that it was a feel patriotic after 9/11 move.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I think it was released before 9/11. This reference seems to confirm that:

        https://web.archive.org/web/20010725225349/http://www.jeepsonly.com/jeepliberty.html

        Incidentally the KJ Liberty was still called “Cherokee” for export, I actually spotted one in Zurich.

    • 0 avatar
      Pig_Iron

      You may have missed Xiden’s executive order banning liberty.
      :-/

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Pig_Iron,

        “ou may have missed Xiden’s executive order banning liberty.
        :-/”

        You must of missed the order that makes it illegal to mention the order banning liberty:-)

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Not even worth discussing garbage like “Biden just banned liberty.”

        Get on your meds, son.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          FreedMike,

          “Get on your meds, son.”

          Your comment is so nicely condescending. One of the great failings of the left these days is the strange assumption that disagreeing with them is a sign of mental debility. A rather strange conceit for a party whose current head honcho is in painfully obvious cognitive decline….

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “One of the great failings of the left these days is the strange assumption that disagreeing with them is a sign of mental debility”

            Well….

            A recent study of the human brain’s ability to process complex tasks inadvertently discovered that the more conservative and doctrinar one was, the less able they were to carry out complex mental tasks.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @oldWrx:

            Nonsense deserves condescension.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Old_WRX,

            if you disagree with a dim, you’re white supremacist.

    • 0 avatar
      RedRocket

      “Patriot” is available again too.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Lou_BC

      “Ironic how it tends to be conservatives who expect to be worshipped for their rigid ideology.”

      LOL. And, the so-called “liberals” are so flexible minded….

      And, just so you know, I am not a conservative. Right now though the republicans are more liberal than the neanderthal main stream democrats. For example: unlike current main stream liberals I do believe in freedom of speech, but I recognize that freedom of speech entails hearing people say things I don’t agree with, and, yes, even find offensive without acting like some offended diva.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “the so-called “liberals” are so flexible minded”

        The fringes on both sides are inflexible but there are more on the right that tend to be more politically and religiously inflexible.

        Elections are won by swaying the open minded in the middle whether they be slightly left or right of centre.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Lou_BC,

          “but there are more on the right that tend to be more politically and religiously inflexible.”

          I wouldn’t say so. The left leaning types tend to feign flexibility, but when pushed they are every bit as rigid as the more obviously rigid conservatives. I assume that you would include the bible thumping crowd in the list of rigid conservatives. (I am really tired of how the instant they get some power they want to outlaw abortion and all that squeaky clean boy scout sh!t some of them are so fond of.) I don’t much care for the ramrod straight, stiff-upper-lip conservatives. And, I don’t give a damn about what they think god wants everybody to do.

          I grew up in a politically active family of lefties, so don’t try to tell me they aren’t rigid — oy veh. They claim that they are open to reason, that they are open minded, etc., but that’s 99% hot air. I’d say people in general make a lot of noise about how intelligent we humans, but they aren’t much given to thought.

          One thing that gets me about people who claim to be progressives is they seem to think there is some great advantage to change without much regard for where that change is going. As long as there are good slogans, let her rip. Progressives seem to be immune from noticing that it is generally best to make change cautiously. I say if it isn’t too totally broken then stop and think a minute or two before throwing it out and replacing it with something that sounds wonderful but is unproven. Sort of like: if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. One thing a lot of liberals (not all of them) need to learn is idealism needs to be tempered with cynical realism. Idealism run rampant is almost a perfect guarantee of disaster, and just plain ain’t smart.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Old_WRX

        “And, the so-called “liberals” are so flexible minded…. Right now though the republicans are more liberal than the neanderthal main stream democrats.”

        They don’t even understand where they are currently positioned, don’t they? That they have became oppressive, tyrannical, totalitarian regime with the methods used directly from Stalin’s workbook.
        Telling you again, America lagging 100 years behind USSR.

        We used to have a saying, “we will fight for the peace so hard that we will not leave any boulder un-turned”.

        I have some good news though, freedom-loving people always found their way to hang the tyrants upside down.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      FreedMike,

      “Nonsense deserves condescension.”

      Condescension is frequently used as an attempt to discredit an opponent’s argument. It generally indicates that the person using condescension doesn’t have a real argument.

      slavuta,

      Yes, disagreeing with a liberal means you’re a white supremacist — even if you’re not. Saying you’re not a white supremacist means you are white supremacist. Welcome to the nouveau CCCP.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Someone needs to look up the definition of white supremacist!

        Conversely, disagreeing with someone on the right means you are a socialist or communist.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Lou_BC,

          “Someone needs to look up the definition of white supremacist!”

          That would be a nice change of pace. I hate to break it to you, but there are quite a few people who call themselves “liberals” (but are more nazis) who seem to be addicted to claiming that anyone who would dare to disagree with their august opinion is a white supremacist — they seem completely undeterred by the fact that it ain’t so and makes not the least sense..

          “Conversely, disagreeing with someone on the right means you are a socialist or communist.”

          Some people make that assumption. I don’t, but I do call socialists and communists what they are. And, unfortunately they have managed to install one of their own in the white house and many in congress.

          I am not a conservative, but I stay as far away as I can from the ersatz liberals that (at least most noisily) seem to make up a disturbing fraction of those who call themselves democrats. They are not liberals; they are corporate owned automatons.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    “We hope the movement away from using tribes’ names and depictions or selling products without our consent, continues.”

    Why is consent necessary? Is the word ‘Cherokee’ trademarked, or copyrighted? Was there a vote which states this request?

    This has been turned into a perceived racial issue. I don’t hear an outcry about the naming of countless US states, counties, and cities – whose names were chosen in honor of white Europeans hundreds of years ago. Who speaks for York, Kensington, King George, Queen Mary, William Penn, William Pitt, or Mexico? Will we rename Pontiac, MI or the state of Delaware, or the Monongahela River?

    The crowning achievement will be the canceling of all things “Washington”, including DC, because the first President had slaves. Be prepared for the faces on our currency to change. It will happen.

    I guess it’s only an honor until you decide it isn’t.

    Another related question: What qualifies a person as a member of the Cherokee Nation? How much Cherokee DNA do you need to claim membership? I ask, because this needs to be answered when the US starts discussing reparations to various other people groups.

    • 0 avatar
      bkojote

      Here, lemme address the only question that matters-

      Should a private, for-profit company be using the name of a nation of people (and in particular, a nation that had some kinda major atrocities committed against them) and profit off a romanticized version of their heritage when it has no real connection to people of that background.

      I’m not Cherokee, but if I was I could kinda see how it doesn’t sit right. I don’t think it’s a stretch for anyone here to either.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Naming a city or a river after somebody isn’t the same as naming a product sold for profit.

      Who said anything about “reparations?” This is about unauthorized use of a name for profit. The Cherokee Nation has the right to determine its own criteria for membership (and they spend a whole lot of time and effort doing so).

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        I brought up reparations.

        I’m asking:
        a. To what extent is Mr Hoskin authorized to speak on behalf of the Cherokee Nation, and did the Nation ask him to convey this message?
        b. You mention ‘unauthorized use of a name for profit’ – but why is authorization required, and what would that look like?
        c. When a people group is mentioned, I’d like to know the composition and definition of that group. (I think I found the answer to my own question, below.)

        When it comes to slave reparations (different topic, but partly related), defining who would receive a reparations check and its amount could depend on your proof of descendancy from slaves, how ‘black’ you really are because of inter-racial marriage over the centuries, and your ‘need’ for a reparations check given your station today, and other complicating factors.

        In a twist, I have a friend who is truly African-American: a naturalized citizen born in Africa. She does not identify much with black Americans, and English is her third language. Should she get a check because she is a black American, or should she pay extra if it is discovered that her ancestors sold their neighbors to English slave traders?

        Back to the Cherokee: I’d suggest they go to court to seek protection for the use of their name, similar to any other brand name challenge. This approach would be far more palatable than appealing to the latest cultural sympathies.

        I looked up the following for my own edification:
        “Cherokee Nation citizenship requires having at least one direct ancestor listed on the Dawes Rolls of the Cherokee Nation, a federal census compiled in the years 1898-1906.”

        “For Cherokee Nation citizens, a blood quantum is computed from the nearest direct ancestor on the Dawes Rolls. Blood quantum listings on the Dawes Rolls of Cherokee Nation range from 4/4 down to 1/256.”

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          a) Mr. Hoskins is the duly elected Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation. He is analogous to the President of the United States.

          b) Under US law, you’d need a license agreement. Cherokee tribal law is involved here too, and I have zero knowledge whatsoever of what it might require. But this is a matter of ethics, not just law. The Cherokee are a sovereign nation and the rest of us should be respectful of how they do or don’t want their name used.

          c) I don’t know what this has to do with the topic of whether Jeep should use the Cherokee name or not. Reparations is a complicated concept and not every form of reparations that has been proposed would require identifying who is and is not in the group.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            you see, the way reparations work; if you win the war you get it all.
            Look at the examples around the world. Using that experience,
            Cherokee lost the war, they settled with US. No reparations. They’ve lost.
            But if they would win, they could easily demand reparations from US for damaging their lives.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            dal20402,

            “Reparations is a complicated concept”

            This is even further complicated by the fact that there were many tens of thousands of white slaves in the Americas before the forced importation of Africans. I understand that there were even white slaves owned by black slave owners. So, for reparations to be done correctly one would have to trace back the heritage of every person in the country to know who owed who what. If course, if reparations happen they will, no doubt, follow racial lines in keeping with all the noise about race these days.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuta – so as long as the side you are on wins then it is all justified?

            First Nations peoples were mostly forced off their land by settlers. Many were slaughtered by soldiers. It was justified by the assumption that it was fine because white Christian settlers were superior to inferior godless savages.
            It isn’t much different than what the Israeli’s have done to the Palestinians or the Roman or British empires.
            “Might makes right” isn’t much of a human rights doctrine.

          • 0 avatar
            C5 is Alive

            “‘Might makes right’ isn’t much of a human rights doctrine.”

            To the contrary, civilization has flourished under that very principle for centuries.

            “It isn’t much different than what the Israeli’s have done to the Palestinians or the Roman or British empires.”

            …And?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “To the contrary, civilization has flourished under that very principle for centuries.”

            @C5 is alive.

            One culture flourishes at the expense of others whose members
            are enslaved or forced into servitude.

            As I said, “Might makes right” isn’t much of a human rights doctrine

          • 0 avatar
            C5 is Alive

            @Lou_BC

            And the flourishing, civilized culture is under no obligation at all to sustain the existence of the vanquished, let alone entertain their opinions about automotive branding.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @C5 is Alive

            Civilized culture does not oppress or destroy other cultures.

            “What you do to the least of my brothers, you do unto me”.

          • 0 avatar
            C5 is Alive

            A Leftist citing Scripture. Cute.

            And read your history. Civilizations conquer lesser cultures all the time.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Lesser culture”? Wow, what a bunch of stupid rot. And what a jerk.

            Asked this before, but is there anyone moderating this site anymore?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @C5 is Alive

            “Civilizations conquer lesser cultures all the time.”

            Yes and it doesn’t make it right.

            “Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause.”

            As far as “a leftist quoting scripture”, Jesus was a leftist based upon what he said and did.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “Jesus was a leftist based upon what he said and did.”

            His Dad sure wasn’t though.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “His Dad sure wasn’t though”

            Ironic how it tends to be conservatives who expect to be worshipped for their rigid ideology.

    • 0 avatar
      SirRaoulDuke

      There is a theory “Cherokee” comes from the Choctaw name for the tribe that lived in the mountains…perhaps someone should check with the Choctaw instead to get consent to use that word.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      slavuta,

      “you see, the way reparations work; if you win the war you get it all.”

      And, history will show that you deserved those reparations — since the history is written by the winners…

    • 0 avatar
      Pig_Iron

      What difference does it make in this country if ballot destruction, ballot stuffing, vote machine vote transfer programming, multiple counting of the same ballot, refusing to hear sworn counting fraud testimony because it’s not “this” court’s responsibility, or the evidence is “too soon”, but now “too late”, and only one side of the story is allowed?
      :-/

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Pig_Iron,

        Obviously, you just don’t understand how democracy works:-)

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Pig_Iron – where’s the evidence? and as far as hearing “sworn counting fraud testimony”, that’s laughable. I can find a million people who will swear and sign affidavits saying that the earth is flat. Just because someone claims something is true doesn’tmake it so. 60 plus courts have thrown out tRump’s lies about election fraud.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Lou_BC,

          “Just because someone claims something is true doesn’t make it so.”

          That’s why we have courts to hear evidence. Unfortunately all the court refused to hear the evidence in this case. It couldn’t have been because they judged the evidence unconvincing — they never looked at the evidence. The fact that every one of them refused to hear evidence more suggests some sort of collusion than not. Sorry, but no matter how many times you repeat “where’s the beef?” it’s just not even close to convincing, but I’m sure that won’t stop you.

          As I’ve said many times, if the left is so sure that there was no corruption then they should agree to a full investigation so they can shut up the doubters. The fact that they don’t only works against them.

          It’s unlikely we’ll ever know.

          Now, go ahead about how thousands and thousands of judges refused…

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Old_WRX – courts will look at evidence to see if it is fit for trial. It wasn’t. Just like any criminal case does not go to trial if there is insufficient evidence.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Lou_BC

          “Many were slaughtered by soldiers. It was justified by the assumption that it was fine because white Christian settlers were superior to inferior godless savages.”

          And they were superior. This is a fact. They developed civilization far superior to natives and conquered them. Always been the case through evolution. This is how neanderthals lost war against modern humans.

          “It isn’t much different than what the Israeli’s have done to the Palestinians”

          And what exactly Israelis do to Palestinians? May be you need to study the issue before commenting on it? Currently there are 17 Palestinians, members of Israeli Knesset. Druze are integral part of Israeli army. I don’t understand your issue. Please highlight, what exactly Israel did to Palestinians so that you posted here?

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Let’s use a metaphor some might more easily understand:

      In 50 years , well after the jaundiced one term wonder dies in prison and his empire dissolved in bankruptcy, a company decides to sell tRump toilet paper. Sr. For big jobs, and Jr. For little jobs. Over 81 million units sold per year.
      Poor ol’ Baron does not like the use of the family name. He fires off a letter asking the company to stop the unauthorized use of their name.

      Is he legally in his rights to do so?

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Stupid, mindless, fake outrage designed to make people angry.

    This is yet another example of liberal snowflake BS that just needs to end.

    When are you going to get the military to change the name of their helicopters? With the racist, Alzheimers riddled president we have to suffer with now, you probably have a chance.

    • 0 avatar
      bkojote

      Waaaah, you still mad because your failed frozen steak salesman lost worse than he lost money on his garbage casinos.

      Sit down shut up and stop thinking your opinions are worth anything.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Biden is fake through and trough. From his stolen speeches to his act during last primaries. All his life he made racial bigoted remarks and now he is front-runner to neo-apartheid. Fake, fake, fake.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        bkojote,

        Doesn’t change the fact that he is racist and is suffering from cognitive decline.

      • 0 avatar
        wolfwagen

        bkojote,
        Who died and left you arbitrator to tell him to shutup?

        He is entitled to his opinion. You have to admit the Biden has said a lot of racist things that is Trump said you would look to hang him for. And you have to admit, Biden has Mental decline – even those that know him have said it.

        “Opinions are like A$$holes. Everyone has one and they all Stink” – except yours right Bkojote?

    • 0 avatar
      Adam Tonge

      Let’s not have this devolve into a Trump/Biden thing.

    • 0 avatar
      Pig_Iron

      Please post most woke helicopter name :-)

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Pig_Iron,

        “Please post most woke helicopter name :-)”

        Don’t say you didn’t ask for it: “White Men as Full Diversity Partners.”

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Pig_Iron- Your ignorance is amazing.

        “Army Material Command actually gets approval from Native American tribes before naming its aircraft. That’s according to the Department of the Army’s Pamphlet 70-3, paragraph 1-11-4-g”

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Let’s use a metaphor some might more easily understand:

      In 50 years , well after the jaundiced one term wonder dies in prison and his empire dissolved in bankruptcy, a company decides to sell tRump toilet paper. Sr. For big jobs, and Jr. For little jobs. Over 81 million units sold per year.
      Poor ol’ Baron does not like the use of the family name. He fires off a letter asking the company to stop the unauthorized use of their name.

      Is he legally in his rights to do so?

  • avatar
    Syke

    Ok, so the tribe had no problem with use of the name when the brand returned, but now they want it done away with?

    Right.

  • avatar
    tankinbeans

    I will only say that at least the request, sincere or otherwise notwithstanding, is coming from a member of the group who claims to be aggrieved in some way. This is preferable to so many of the instances where somebody is offended on somebody else’s behalf.

    Not being part of the Cherokee nation, or any other first nations tribe, I do not have a dog in that fight.

    • 0 avatar
      Imagefont

      If you were white and dining in a restaurant with a sign out front that said “whites only”, you also wouldn’t have a “dog in that fight”. Or would you?
      I remember passing coffee shops growing up with those signs in the window and even though I’m not black, my family never, ever walked into one and my mother told me “we don’t go to places like that”. She didn’t have to tell me why.
      Pick a fight.

      • 0 avatar
        tankinbeans

        I see what you’re saying there. In the example you provided “whites only,” I also wouldn’t chose to patronize those types of places. My point was only an attempt to say that if the Cherokee, or their representatives are indicating that the use of the name is in some way inappropriate they should be free to make the request. So much of the time there are those who go overboard and act offended on others’ behalf when those they’re offended for couldn’t give two forks at a rolling donut.

        Also, as somebody who doesn’t pretend to understand the nuance of this particular situation, I wouldn’t presume to add my relatively uninformed opinion to the discussion beyond what I already said. I leave that to the others who truly enjoy reading their own words.

    • 0 avatar
      Pig_Iron

      Yup, there’s a dictionary full of possible names. I nominate the Jeep Jinky Jackalope.
      :-)

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Word is that Lexus was going to name its’ new flagship sedan “Kohain” but wimped out when it learned that about 48% of Kohains are attorneys.

    They then offered the name to Mercedes, which declined for reasons that should be entirely obvious.

    (Questionable humor aside – which I can get away with because yours truly IS a Kohain – yeah, i get the Cherokees’ beef. They were truly done dirty and I don’t think much has been done to make things right, so yeah…they’re after the money. Can’t blame ’em.)

  • avatar
    dal20402

    People shouldn’t profit from other people’s names without their consent. The Cherokee Nation has every right to object, either to ask Jeep to change the products’ names or to ask for compensation. It’s up to Jeep to determine whether there’s enough brand equity in the Cherokee name to make its use profitable even after proper compensation to the Cherokee Nation.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Then they should petition a court to hear their grievance, rather than appealing to the latest cultural sensitivities.

      Out of spite, Ford was able to prevent Tesla from using the name “Model E”, which is a bit ironic because even Ford had a Model S back in 1907, yet put up no fight when Tesla used it in 2012.

      My non-lawyer guess is that Jeep’s use of the name “Cherokee” would be deemed acceptable because the Nation can’t show proof of harm from its use, and there is no ambiguity in the respective uses of the name.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        I think it’s a lot friendlier to Jeep to make a simple request than it is to haul them into court. Nobody wants litigation.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        There are several separate and orthogonal issues here.

        The legal issue is one thing.

        The ethics are another.

        And the last is how this looks to the public.

        It seems likely that:

        a) Jeep/Stellantis can legally use the Cherokee name, because nobody’s going to confuse an SUV with the Cherokee nation or it’s members/citizens. (Potential for confusion is one of the criteria for establishing a trademark.)

        b) Continuing to use the Cherokee name raises a lot of ethical questions.

        c) A good swath of the public (remember that a little over half of the public are liberals) will think the marketing people at Jeep are d!cks for ignoring point b).

        These are all separate issues, and you’ll be confused by people’s reactions if you insist that a) is the only party that matters.

        Just because Jeep legally *can* ignore b) and c) doesn’t mean they *should*. If liberals stop buying Jeeps, they’ll sell fewer Jeeps — because everyone loves Jeeps.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Luke42,

          This could be a touchy one for Jeep. If they don’t cave to the current SJW-ridden state of things and drop the name they do risk a loss of sales form the so, so correct liberals (and possibly other forms of trouble). But, on the other hand their conservative customers might not appreciate it if Jeep does cave.

          If we lived in a sane world Jeep could just give them a chunk of change and everybody would be happy.

          • 0 avatar
            C5 is Alive

            “If we lived in a sane world Jeep could just give them a chunk of change and everybody would be happy.”

            So extortion, then? A truly sane world would recognize this as the farce it is and laugh Hoskin right off his soapbox.

    • 0 avatar
      Flipper35

      RE: People shouldn’t profit from other people’s names without their consent.

      I agree and since my last name is Dolphin I think I will talk to my lawyer about that team in Miami. I mean, I didn’t mind when Dan Marino was QB, but now.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      C5 is Alive,

      “So extortion, then?”

      OK, you’re right. If this was a sane world Jeep would ignore them and they wouldn’t be able to do much of anything about it. But, of course, they are taking cheap advantage of the current phony sensitivity thing — it’s nauseating, but they might be able to use it to hurt sales. If they whine loud enough….

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    I want to hear from Native American individuals. Dollars to donuts the tribal leaders don’t speak for them. Except we won’t hear from them. If asked, they’d say it’s non issue, not worth… um.. what was question?

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      The two top executive positions in the Cherokee Nation are popularly elected. I’d have more confidence in them to speak on behalf of their nation than random internet commenters.

      https://www.cherokee.org/our-government/

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      “I want to hear from Native American individuals”

      Yes, and according to the Cherokee Nation website, they have people registered as Cherokee who are only 1/256 “pure” Cherokee. That’s a fascinatingly low threshold, which I suppose will continue to diminish with future generations.

      It’s one thing for someone to identify as black – for example – when they have a black and a white parent, but it’s quite another to claim you are Cherokee when you’re really only 0.4% “pure”.

      I’m not sure how they get away with that. Seems like a way to keep the band together when all the original members have changed several times, sort of like Blue Man Group.

  • avatar
    CKNSLS Sierra SLT

    There isn’t enough money in the world to compensate for the lies and atrocities we committed against the American Indians……

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      The US Treasury has unlimited resources. “Stimulus money” is simply borrowing from the future, which is considered endless.

      So the right lawyers, with the right calculators, can find a way. And not just for Native Americans.

      Unfortunately, money rarely settles the matter.

    • 0 avatar
      C5 is Alive

      Sure doesn’t stop them from trying, though!

      I recall the same ‘lies and atrocities’ argument being used 30+ years ago to justify tribal casinos. It was tired then, even more so now.

  • avatar
    MRF 95 T-Bird

    Studebaker had a car in the late 50’s named the Scotsman. It was the base entry level model with barely any accoutrements. It had painted instead of chrome hub caps and just a driver side sun visor along with rubber mats. However it didn’t have tartan plaid upholstery. It was dropped after a few years.
    Before WWII they had a model called the Dictator. The term at the time did have a kind of panache meaning that it was the top of the heap but dropped for obvious reasons.

    • 0 avatar
      la834

      I was also thinking of “Scotsman” as a name that wouldn’t go over well today, though in this case it may have been not so much the name itself but rather the nature of the car it was attached to. I’ve never heard any criticism of naming cars New Yorker or Parisienne, so i guess what’s offensive is the inference that Scottish people are all tightwads.

    • 0 avatar
      Lightspeed

      As someone with a Scottish name, I am amused by the ‘Scotsman’ name of that Studebaker, but strictly speaking it is a bit offensive. This deal with the Cherokee is a whole ‘nuther ballgame. I believe Jeep is sincere in saying the name reflects the strength and tenacity of the Cherokee peoples in a harsh environment. But, there is a ton of history attached to using that name and we live in a different world now. Jeep has an incredible amount of equity built up in the name that would be very hard to lose. Maybe they do pay a royalty to the Cherokee Nation, maybe they establish all kinds of scholarships, internships, etc., maybe they build a factory on Cherokee lands? I hope that an outcome can be reached that leaves everyone with a sense of respect. No reason this can’t be an opportunity.

  • avatar
    alan996

    I would like to know why it took them more than twenty years to figure this out. Perhaps it is because the present political/social climate may support a big payout?

  • avatar
    slavuta

    If there is one naming problem is Porsche. Friend of Hitler, member Nazi party and honorary member of SS; used slave labor in his factories.

    Come on people! Delusional.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      I know several people who have a problem with this and avoid German cars as a result.

      I know one guy who hated on a Mitsubishi I had for the similar reasons.

      WWII left many scars.

      Avoiding certain car brands because the company tried to kill your ancestors seems like a pretty straightforward position to take.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Forget about ancestors, nothing personal. I am talking here about Nazi criminal. It is well established by Nuremberg trial that Nazis are criminals. And Porsche was one of the top Nazis. Having Porsches running over American roads is also an insult for those who died on D-day and beyond fighting this very guy, who was managing production of means of killing them.

        • 0 avatar
          wolfwagen

          What about Thyssen Krupp elevators and Escalators then? Fritz Thyssen supported the Nazis until Kristallnacht, but still Made a lot of war time equipment for the Nazis. Alfred Krupp was an anti semite and wished for someone like hitler. Krupp built most of the gas chambers and ovens used in concentration camps.

          FYI – Thyssen Krupp makes lots of automotive parts like OEM Cam/Crank Shafts and Bilstein

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          Post WW2 the USA coddled many nazi’s for rocket technology and to engage in the Cold War with the USSR.

    • 0 avatar
      wolfwagen

      Add Volkswagen and Ford to the list as well then!

  • avatar
    mcs

    Just use one of the trim names to replace Cherokee and be done with it. Jeep Overland wouldn’t be a bad name. I’m guessing these guys are next: https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/

  • avatar
    jkross22

    I’m surprised we can still use the word master. As in master cylinder, master of a skill, master bedroom (this one especially) and of course master of your own domain.

    It’s verboten to use the term illegal alien, even though it’s a legal term and status.

    Can we at least agree that if you are not a member of an aggrieved group, that you can’t be more upset than a member of that group?

    • 0 avatar
      Imagefont

      In terms of electircal devices, for example, the terms “master” and “slave” are slowly being changed to “leader”’and “follower”.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        Also “controller” & “peripheral”.

        There’s no reason to bring up the worst thing that ever happened to a man’s great-great-grandfather when you’re trying to engineer a device or swap a part.

        Lots of conservative snowflakes in the engineering community get all snowflakey about changing the terminology. I’d try to care about conservative snowflake’s feelings if they didn’t walk around wearing “f*ck your feelings” t-shirts. But they do, so I don’t. [Shrug]

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          “if they didn’t walk around wearing “f*ck your feelings” t-shirts.”

          You associate with an interesting crowd.

        • 0 avatar
          Daniel J

          I’m not a conservative snowflake, but I’m going to use “master” and “slave” as long as technical documentation uses this terminology to describe device relationships. I can’t do my job if people don’t know the new terminology that’s describing the architecture I’m working with.

          It’s not that engineers are snowflakes, it’s that it’s much more efficient discussing technology as it has always been discussed. I2C is an old and proven technology. It’s white papers go back years. It’s discussed as a master – slave relationship. Even the Wiki still states this. GFL convincing a whole group to change terminology for the sake of wokeness when most only care about getting nthe job done.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        How about manager/employee instead of master/slave?

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      In our market “master bedroom” has pretty much been replaced by “primary bedroom.” It has not caused the real estate market to end.

      Usages of “master” that connote “trained in a skill” seem to be surviving fine, while usages that connote “person in charge” are changing fast.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        Hadn’t heard of the change, but I’ve not been looking to buy or sell a house in a while. It makes sense. Of all of the uses of the word, master bedroom seems to have the most direct line to Southern plantations.

        Never heard master used to connote person in charge unless we’re talking early 1800s diction. Have you?

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      My, my, my, we have become so tiresomely phony touchy-feely. This walking-on-eggshells-because-someone-might-get-offended thing is getting really, really old.

      • 0 avatar
        C5 is Alive

        The fault is ours, sadly. We’ve allowed the Woke crowd to grow empowered and emboldened like never before.

        Rational Americans face a choice: either accede to the increasingly irrational demands from a rabid mob… or get a lot more serious about restoring sanity, reason and order to our country.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          C5 is Alive,

          I suppose the only way to stop them is with a brick wall approach — not kowtowing to any of their demands. Unfortunately, the poison has crept in insidiously and often unconsciously. But, then that’s how they do it. SJW privilege.

          • 0 avatar
            C5 is Alive

            I’m fairly certain whatever “brick wall” we present against these creatures will inevitably need to be dropped on them.

      • 0 avatar
        wolfwagen

        And the group most offended was raised on South Park and the Simpsons, go figure

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I’d say its simple hypocrisy (on a grand scale), but I do believe there is a significant element of subliminal communication at play.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            28-Cars-Later,

            “but I do believe there is a significant element of subliminal communication at play.”

            Please, do elucidate. You’ve got me curious.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      I still use “male” and “female” for connectors. What’s the replacement term?

      • 0 avatar
        Scoutdude

        Plug or Pin instead of male and socket or receptacle for female.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Plug and jack have been used in some cases for years. But, male and female seem to work just fine. Getting offended by this sort of terminology must really take some hard work. How about overling and underling to replace master and slave (not that they really need replacing, but that’s bringing sanity into the picture). Or boss and peon? “Grand exalted leader” and “unquestioning disciple”? Though the whole concept related by master/slave may have to be gotten rid of — we need to have true equity. So, every device is free to do as it pleases.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    Rumors that the devil is going to demand licensing fees for Hellcats…

  • avatar
    Superdessucke

    Why not take a page from the Washington football team formerly known as the Redskins? Just call the small one the Jeep CUV and the big one the Jeep SUV.

  • avatar

    I am so glad that Pontiac was cancelled. It was very wise move by GM.
    On the other hand I am offended that Porsche called one of its cars 911. Shows no respect to Americans.

  • avatar
    Avnut

    The U.S. Army names its helicopter after Native American tribes or figures. For your reading enjoyment.

    “Why Army Helicopters Have Native American Names”
    https://www.defense.gov/Explore/Inside-DOD/Blog/Article/2052989/why-army-helicopters-have-native-american-names/

  • avatar
    OA5599

    Just another shakedown attempt a la Jackson, Sharpton.

  • avatar
    Oberkanone

    Jeep Overland

    Jeep Commander

    Jeep Laredo

    Jeep Pinnacle

  • avatar
    neebme

    If the Native American tribes wanted to keep the name from being used then they should of gotten it trademarked before Jeep did decades ago. It’s Jeeps right to use the name.

  • avatar
    YaCar

    OK, two can play this game. There are many hundreds of place and product names in the USA that honor the Natives who lived there. Let’s play the stupid cultural appropriation game and change all of them.

    That would all but erase the memory of those tribes and their place names. I do not think that would work very well for cultures that should be recognized as important.

    The Post Office would have fun in Washington State!

  • avatar
    whynotaztec

    I can’t imagine much brand equity is tied up in the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. I’m not hating on the vehicles themselves, I just think Jeep can come up with other outdoorsy sounding names to replace them without too much effort. Then they can put this issue behind them and not worry about having to make payments of some kind. And for many people, they will probably never speak, hear, or think of the word Cherokee again.

  • avatar
    2manycars

    The Cherokees are a conquered, subjugated nation. There is not a reason in the world to consider their “feelings” in this matter. It simply does not matter what they want.

    In this case however, as I recall the tribe gave permission to AMC back when the Cherokee name was initially used. I guess it’s true what they say about Indian givers.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Tough luck because the Cherokees are subjugated? “Indian giver”?

      Are there are any moderators at work on this site anymore?

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @FreedMike – Ironically, azzholes will hide behind free speech when the sh!t they spew stinks up the place.

        I guess that BLM should know their place too since a knee on the neck is also a form of subjugation.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Possibly the Cherokees have reconsidered Jeep using their name since they are now owned by Stellantis and previously by Fiat both of which they don’t want their name associated with. The Jeep name and quality has taken a nose dive in recent years.

  • avatar
    geo

    If corporations only named their products and teams after white icons or symbols, I have no doubt that these “woke” groups would complain about a lack of diversity in product names and corporate branding.

    “Activists are fighting racism by demanding that people of color be removed from all media, brands, logos, mascots, and anywhere else they might pop up.” (Babylon Bee).

    Insane.

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