By on November 25, 2020

2022 Honda Civic Sport. Image: HondaAs Toyota approached the launch of the all-new, 2018 Toyota Camry in mid-2017, the automaker telegraphed its intentions very plainly.

“I think you’re going to see the entire sedan market pick up,” then vice-president Jack Hollis said. “We want the new Camry to rehabilitate the segment,” Toyota’s Moritaka Yoshida said at the time.

Toyota wasn’t alone.

“I don’t expect to sell fewer Accords in 2018 with this great new product,” Honda’s sales vice-president, Ray Mikiciuk, said later on in 2017. Accord sales fell 10 percent in 2018 before sliding 8 percent in 2019.

One year later, Nissan’s Dennis Le Vot worked up to the launch of the 2019 Altima by suggesting that when it comes to passenger car market share: “We think 30 percent is the bottom.” Passenger car market share fell below 30 percent in 2019, the new Altima’s first full year.

Now we’re months away from the arrival of the 11th-generation Honda Civic. You know the drill: major automaker launches major car nameplate, major automaker suggests car market will stop the free-fall, major automaker hypes possibility of car market healing.

We’re skeptical.

Gary Robinson, American Honda’s vice president for automobile product planning, says, “We do believe that passenger cars are going to stabilize and actually do quite well over the next five or six years.” Speaking to Automotive News, Robinson says that in the low-$20,000 spectrum, “It’s really hard to offer an SUV that young people are really looking for.”

Yet there are two issues being conflated here. On the one hand, there’s the strength of 10 generations of wildly successful Honda Civics, which alone can not and do not create a favorable atmosphere for cars in general. On the other hand, there’s the weakness of America’s overall passenger car demand, which can and does foment unfavorable consequences for particular models, such as the Camry, Accord, and Altima.USA Honda Civic market share 2005-2020 - Image: © TTACIn the context of passenger cars, the Honda Civic is a powerhouse. It’s currently America’s second-best-selling car overall; the top-selling compact car; and according to Honda, America’s best-selling car on a retail basis in each of the last four years. Honda also says the Civic is the top-selling vehicle outright with Millenials, Gen Z, and first-time buyers.

It doesn’t take a mathematical wizard to conclude that a car with that pedigree should sell in the hundreds of thousands on an annual basis. That is likely to be all the more true as competitors – Cruze, Focus, Lancer, Dart, Verano, and Golf among the most recent – fade from memory. Indeed, as the 2022 Civic arrives with a more conventionally handsome and less divisive design, some tech upgrades, and numerous other refinements, Honda will be extremely well positioned in the compact-car segment.U.S. car market share 2005-2020 - Image: © TTACBut a strong Civic does not a strong car market make. Just as a strong Camry, strong Accord, and strong Altima were not sufficient to rescue America’s midsize market and did not stabilize the overall car sector’s plunging market share, a new Civic will not soon hold back this cresting wave.

What makes us so sure?

Seven years of decline. A precipitous decline that is only becoming more difficult to reverse as the car market loses offerings, as whole segments virtually disappear, as SUVs/crossovers shrink their efficiency gap, and as consumers’ replacement habits become more fixed.

Since 2013, the car sector’s share of America’s auto industry has fallen by half. That’s certainly no knock on the Civic, which not only maintained relatively stable sales during that period (Civic sales were down just 3 percent between 2013 and 2019 and hit a record high of 377,286 in 2017) but which also nearly doubled its share of the passenger car market. Through the first three-quarters of an admittedly bizarre 2020, 8 percent of the cars sold in America were Civics.

Strong Civic sales, however, won’t resuscitate the American car market. As proof, we can just keep looking back at the results from the last seven years: strong Civic demand; weakening car demand overall. Honda’s right to expect big sales volume from the 2022 Civic. But we’ve grown all too accustomed to watching automakers make bold proclamations of increased U.S. demand for cars in cars, and watching as that proclamations coincide with decreased U.S. demand for cars.

Timothy Cain is a contributing analyst at The Truth About Cars and Driving.ca and the founder and former editor of GoodCarBadCar.net. Follow on Twitter @timcaincars and Instagram.

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56 Comments on “We’ve Heard this Incorrect Forecast Before: Honda Believes in 2022 Civic Because “Passenger Cars are Going to Stabilize”...”


  • avatar
    ajla

    I actually think the Honda guy might be kind of right this time. Eventually the nonpremium sedan market is just going to be Toyota, Honda, and H/K. Once things are contracted to that level then it should become relatively steady.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I was just thinking the same. Even a broken clock is right once a day.

    • 0 avatar
      Fred

      If they phrased it differently, say like “we think the car market will hit it’s bottom in 2022 and we believe we can make money at that level” Not as optimistic but essentially the same.

    • 0 avatar
      thegamper

      Personally, I think this is just wishful thinking by a company with a lot on the line. I honestly believe the sedan is dead. The writing is on the wall. Not because of the form factor or the functionality…..but because the proliferation of so many large vehicles (looking at you pickups, but many SUVs as well) has made driving a sedan simply unbearable for most people.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        We’ll see but I do not anticipate the Corolla or Civic being killed. Their sales aren’t really falling sharply and Toyota and Honda use modular platform architecture that makes keeping them around relatively affordable.

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      Yes, and I don’t think the new administration is going to be particularly friendly to the large gas guzzling pick up and SUV segment.

      • 0 avatar
        pveezy

        The thing is, there aren’t really any gas guzzling SUVs anymore, at least not the sales leaders. This isn’t 2002 where people were trading in 30mpg sedans for 17mpg SUVs. They are trading 34mpg sedans in for 33mpg SUVs. Hell, the new Camry AWD gets worse MPG than the RAV4 AWD.

        Even pickups are in the 20s now.

        • 0 avatar
          thegamper

          People often cite the “remarkable” fuel economy of modern pickups. They may be able to advertise decent epa numbers due to a number of trucks, but go to fully.com and see real world mpg. Pickup fuel economy still sucks despite modest gains. There is just no getting around the fact that a 6000 lb brick isn’t going to be that efficient. No amount of wishful thinking or gaslighting will change that.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            Real world 16 MPG is screaming efficiency when you consider what pickups can do. Like time and money saved by accomplishing tasks yourself, some impromptu, basically if you have a good use for it, or multi-uses including recreation/travel/hobbies/etc.

            Or by simply ditching all your other cars for just one pickup.

          • 0 avatar
            Dan

            18 is remarkably better than 14, the same absolute improvement as improving a sad little car from 30 to 55, but what’s actually important is that $2 domestic fracking gas is remarkably better than the $6 in 2020 dollars OPEC kind.

            So who gives a damn?

  • avatar
    Firestorm 500

    I don’t want to drop down into, or climb out of, a car. I don’t want to hit my head on the roof support or have to bend my neck at awkward angles to get in. I don’t want 85% of the vehicles around me to be bigger than my vehicle. I want good visibility and a practical amount of cargo volume. I don’t want to have to scoot my seat up into the steering wheel to haul backseat passengers or backwards-facing car seats.

    For all these reasons and more I left the sedan market by selling my 2002 Accord and wife’s 2001 Seville STS 5 years ago as I fully transitioned into the SUV/pickup market.

    I don’t see myself as owning anything other than a pickup and SUV for the rest of my life. I’m not alone in this.

    • 0 avatar
      thegamper

      I don’t want to drop down into, or climb out of, a car. I don’t want to hit my head on the roof support or have to bend my neck at awkward angles to get in.

      This is sort of a funny statement when many people who think that way have no trouble climbing up to get it, or climbing down to get out. But the converse is somehow too daunting haha. Similarly, we bend our necks hundreds of times a day, literally, but somehow doing it during the ingress or egress of an automobile is only for inhabitants of third world countries lol.

      Ever see the movie Wall-E, where everyone in the future just rides around on hovering Rascals because their muscles have atrophied from inactivity. Don’t be afraid to use your muscles and stay limber with a little bending. A few times a day isn’t going to hurt you or anyone else.

      I predict a near future where vehicles of a certain height will come with optional elevators to help you get up to the seating position. (picture version of a wheelchair lift to the passenger seats)

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      I understand that getting into and out of a car is painful for older and often out of shape Americans. But as the Baby Boomer generation leaves the market, and fuel economy standards ramp up, I definitely see the pickup/SUV segment slowing, and probably even contracting a bit. It’ll never go away, of course, but some may end up moving back into cars.

      • 0 avatar
        pveezy

        SUVs get the same or better fuel economy vs similar sized sedans now. We aren’t talking about 2005 Yukons with a V8 and a 4 speed. Modern SUVs are extremely efficient.

        Even pickups are into the 20s now for MPG with multiple electric and hybrid powertrains hitting the market.

        I think the 3 box sedan’s days are numbered. In my area even taxis seem to be transitioning to CUVs.

  • avatar
    ajla

    This is also why I think all of the “the LX platform cars should be updated! They are too old!” is a misguided take.

    There is no growth in “car” segments unless they wear a Tesla badge. There is no reason for Stellantis to light money on fire to give us a new sedans and pony cars because it won’t give enough (any?) of a sales bump to be worthwhile.

  • avatar
    N8iveVA

    “Robinson says that in the low-$20,000 spectrum, “It’s really hard to offer an SUV that young people are really looking for.”

    I call BS on that. Sell a comparably equipped Civic based CUV at the same price as a Civic. It does not cost any more to design a tall Civic. They’re just doing the typical money grab when they sell a CR-V at a base price of almost $5,000 more.

    • 0 avatar
      sgeffe

      That’s true about the Civic-equivalent (x)UV in the Honda lineup. The HR-V is essentially the size of the Fit, and will replace that on the low end.

      • 0 avatar
        N8iveVA

        Yep, same scam. HR-V is on the Fit platform and is $4,000 higher on the base price.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Forty years ago, Chevy was selling a mildly restyled Chevelle as a Monte Carlo for quite a bit more money, so is Honda doing anything new here?

          But at least CR-V customers are getting a car that’s more utilitarian than a Civic, with AWD, for their money. Those tarted-up Chevelles being sold as Monte Carlos were literally just styling exercises with a few more features.

    • 0 avatar
      DungBeetle62

      “It’s really hard to offer an SUV that young people are really looking for.” in the low-$20K spectrum?

      Have they checked their used lot?

    • 0 avatar
      stuki

      I suppose a skyscraper could be sold for the price of a bungalow as well…….

      Perched higher, both roll and pitch is more pronounced. And lever arms longer. Requiring stouter underpinnings. Adding weight. Requiring more engine, and brakes, and even tires, for acceptable performance. Adding yet more weight……

      Lower is simply more efficient for similar dynamics. In terms of both energy use, and build cost.

      It’s kayaks vs modern cruise ships. Once you need enough space, packaging 5000 berths and a Manhattan worth of shopping, dining and entertainment into a kayak shape becomes sub optimal. But for solo commuting and a bit more, low and slender beats a block any day.

  • avatar
    misfit_toys

    As much as I want to hate some of the small crossovers that are being introduced, it’s really hard to argue with their practicality and utility compared with a small car. It’s not hard to see why someone would prefer a CX-3 over a Mazda3, for example, or the new Seltos or Venue vs. a similarly priced small sedan.

    • 0 avatar
      rpn453

      I had difficulty seeing the appeal of the CX-3 when I test drove it back-to-back with a Mazda3 in 2016. The Mazda3 was cheaper and more spacious, plus it handled better, rode better, and felt more substantial.

      It’s not hard to see why someone would choose a CX-5 over the Mazda3 though. You gain a lot of space, traffic visibility, and safety – and a far superior ride over poorly maintained roads – for just a few grand more.

      I drive a Mazdaspeed3. Yet, at this point, it’s hard to imagine why anyone would buy a new sedan to be surrounded by larger, taller vehicles with headlights constantly shining in their face. If you can afford a new car, you can probably afford the extra cost and the extra fuel for a modern crossover. In the absence of a manual transmission with a Torsen LSD, I don’t see much appeal to a one-wheel-drive modern sedan. As an appliance, my wife’s 2019 CR-V is quite pleasant to drive or ride in; far more so than if our heads were at bumper level to trucks.

      For the price-sensitive or size-sensitive buyer whose personal safety isn’t a huge priority, a compact hatchback still makes sense to me. My ex wanted something small for driving pleasure and to easily fit in her little garage. We drove the Juke, Mazda3, CX-3, and HR-V. The Mazda3 was the nicest drive of the bunch. She went with that.

    • 0 avatar
      ABC-2000

      misfit_toys;

      CX-3 vs Mazda3?
      I think people cross shopping CX-30 vs the 3.

  • avatar

    No. Roads suck, so an SUV type car is less trips to your wheelsmith. People are older, and don’t want to get in and out of a car…my wife won’t take either of our cars to visit her parents, only the truck for driving them around….and in the world of “least crappy car for my money”, not “luxury item to show neighbors”, super size me is the operative word…that CR-V isn’t much different in price than the Civic….and even in the world of aspirational cars, the SUV CUV is doing quite well….M X5, RS versions of the Q3, 4 , 5 ?

    I drive a car, but understand that if you don’t give a hoot about driving dynamics, a truck or truck-let is going to sell to more people.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    “Robinson says that in the low-$20,000 spectrum, “It’s really hard to offer an SUV that young people are really looking for.””

    Well, you had the Fit and still the HR-V, which is a Fit. Why no HR-V for $19,9 Mr. Robinson?

  • avatar
    Rick Astley

    This is a very interesting segment indeed, compact cars.

    Predominately the arguments I hear about access into a car equates to “Americans are large (fat) and unable to move”. And as a whole, that’s an incredibly accurate statement. One that was repeated multiple times above.

    Personally I see zero benefit of a CUV over it’s car base. Maneuverability? No. Drive quality? No. Usable space increase? Only what you’ve convinced yourself you’re getting (consumer nation that America is). Visibility? Perhaps at first, this is now false.

    The SUV/CUV craze was artificially created because of loopholes in CAFE calculations based on vehicle intent and footprint. Now SUV/CUV have achieved their own industrial inertia and exist on their own. Also a convenient segment to bury all your investment dollars into features rather than efficiency or actual improvements of the ICE.

    This segment is only one common-sense CAFE regulatory change away from crashing and crashing HARD.

    Full disclosure: The sedan segment has abandoned me as I prefer to drive a 4-door sedan with a reasonable trunk entry and manual transmission. Modern aerodynamics of sedans has moved the cab so far rearward that the trunk opening and size is a self-fulfilling prophecy regarding lack of storage space. Converting all sedans to rear-engine-frunk configuration would resolve this, never going to happen. And the manual transmission is dead because Americans are fat and lazy (I am an American and resemble these remarks).

    • 0 avatar
      CKNSLS Sierra SLT

      “Rick”
      I am anything but lazy and still have no desire what so ever to to use a manual transmission. There are simple (anymore) no advantages at all.

      • 0 avatar
        RHD

        There are several advantages. Even if you don’t enjoy choosing when to upshift or downshift, there is still the huge difference in maintenance cost when the autobox needs replacement. Wrecking yards are full of cars with good bodies and interiors, and bad automatic transmissions. Manual trannies last much longer and swapping in a used one is relatively simple. Compression braking on a long downhill is a great tool to have, and shifting from D to L doesn’t always do the trick. Instead of calling AAA when the battery is low, rolling the car and popping the clutch to start it is satisfying in its own way.

        Automatics are for rental cars.

        • 0 avatar
          pveezy

          I’ve owned like 8 automatic cars and never had a single one that had a transmission issue before I was ready to trade it in. As long as you don’t buy a 1991 Taurus or maybe a modern Nissan you’ll be fine.

    • 0 avatar
      Mike-NB2

      Well said. I agree with you entirely. I’m an ‘older’ person but I manage to get in and out of my GLI quite well. And I have a lot of fun while in it too. And yes, it has the manual transmission. I usually get a new car every three or four years but if the choice were to be a new CUV or keep the GLI then I’m keeping the GLI.

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      “Predominately the arguments I hear about access into a car equates to “Americans are large (fat) and unable to move”. And as a whole, that’s an incredibly accurate statement. One that was repeated multiple times above.”

      I mean, yeah. And I’ve made that argument many times. I sometimes feel bad in doing so, but it’s true. I don’t mean to insult anyone, it’s just a fact, so it needs to be discussed in this context. But as the aging population shrinks, there may be less demand for vehicles whose sole claim to fame is that they’re easy to get into and out of.

    • 0 avatar
      pveezy

      I dunno, I’ve been a sedan guy all my life, but when it comes to Ikea trips or big ticket purchases, that CUV cargo space with the seats down is the difference between taking something home yourself or paying for delivery/a rental. You could fit a dishwasher in the cargo space of a CR-V or RAV4 if you want to. A Camry or Accord would be maxed out with maybe a microwave. When MSRPs and MPGs are basically the same between CUVs and similar sized sedans now I can see how a few IKEA debacles seals the deal for a lot of people deciding on their next purchase.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        How much furniture and appliances do you buy? I don’t think I’ve bought a big ticket item in the past decade that didn’t offer free delivery. Ikea looks like it has a flat-rate $59 fee on large furniture orders. It is your money but I couldn’t imagine spending $25K-$40K on a utility vehicle I don’t even actually like just because it is better for transporting the dishwasher I buy every 10-15 years.

        I guess for flea market enthusiasts or people that live way out in the woods it can be an issue. But that’s a niche group and it seems like those folks were driving trucks or full-size vans already.

  • avatar
    CKNSLS Sierra SLT

    “28”
    The Honda Fit is/was (scheduled for discontinuation) a terrible execution of a vehicle no matter what classification it was in. And the HR-V sales are 8,000 units a month. It appears Honda is having trouble in the small CUV segment. Any reviews I have read have not been kind to either vehicle-especially the FIT.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I had friends with the first Fit (maybe MY08-13) who raved about it (one had a stick no less). I haven’t encountered anyone with a second generation but I’m sure it took a dive when production moved from Japan to Mexico. I also remember when HR-V first came out, it was not panned well in a few reviews.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Poorly executed? Assuming you’re OK with a subcompact, I’d say it was actually quite well executed, save for one flaw: road noise.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    The perceived safety of an SUV/CUV is part of the demand push away from sedans. Especially smaller sedans.

    ‘Perceived’ because sedans are better at accident avoidance than their heavier, taller, less agile wagons on stilts brethren.

    We Americans usually confuse wants and needs and that confusion is playing out here.

    • 0 avatar
      tankinbeans

      I don’t know how much of a proactive factor it is or not, but SUVs and CUVs typically net cheaper insurance rates than their sedan counterparts. I can’t say if this is an artifact of actuarial tables; older, less accident-prone drivers prefer UVs thus lessening the risk to the insurer for that specific car, or if they’re actually of they’re legitimately safer.

      When I went from my CX-5 into my Mazda3, the insurance premium went up about $10 a month. At the time, the trade-off was more than fine because the fuel economy was marginally better, and the driving dynamics made me happier. That’s not to say I disliked the CX-5, far from it, it’s just that there were certain aspects I could have done without since I’m being completely honest. To this day, I remain ambivalent to crossovers/SUV, having had 2 modern offerings and an older BoF S10 Blazer and expecting that I’ll likely get another at some point.

      I’ll even go out on a limb and say that were Mazda to add some sound deadening, drop in the NA 2.5, and maybe a manual (I know it would never happen), the CX-3 would be a little pocket rocket. I recognize that the CX-3 is more itty-bitty hatchback, but they’re flogging it as a crossover so it’s tangentially related to the post.

      One car I’ve had that seems to split the difference of being low-slung and a crossover was the 300. That was one you could slide into and rode pretty nice, as far as I was concerned, having never set foot into one of the expensive models that are purportedly sporty.

  • avatar
    Imagefont

    Once the world is completely filled with carbon copy look alike CUV’s people will want something “different” and will rediscover the sedan. Or what Europe enjoys, the station wagon / 5-door hatch. Highly useful and better gas mileage.
    But of course gas will NEVER go up in price again….
    Right…..

    • 0 avatar
      stuki

      Station wagons are being eaten alive, sales wise, by compact CUVs (and mpvs) in Europe. More cramped cities, leave the least troublesome / only direction to grow, upwards.

      In America, where footprint is less of an issue; the annoying, car sickness inducing dynamics; resulting from a combination of a short wheelbase, narrow stance, tall height and concrete slabs loosely arranged being passed off as roads; is a lot more offensive than if you absolutely have no choice but to squeeze into a 4.5 meter, narrow slot up against a brick wall in Barcelona.

    • 0 avatar
      pveezy

      People in these comments sections always seem to be in the early 2000s mindset. For one, gas mileage is not an issue at all in CUVs. Gas prices going up wont matter at all, we are talking about RAV4s and CR-Vs that push numbers comparable to Camrys and Accords, not 2005 Tahoes and Excursions. CUVs meet or exceed mileage of similar sedans now. Secondly, CUVs are annihilating sedans AND wagons in Europe to pretty much the same extent as they are over here.

  • avatar
    Dan

    1. Nixing the manga styling is going to sell a heap of these, but mostly at the expense of the Accord which now has literally nothing outside the 2.0T trims to recommend it.

    2. Cheap cars are certainly going to stabilize, we’ve got a Democrat economy coming and that’s a whole lot better for $20,000 (and $200,000) cars than it is for $40,000 ones. $5 Democrat gas is coming too.

    3. If you sell people the CUV they actually want for $20,000 then you can’t sell it to them for $30,000 so cheap will continue to mean sedans.

    • 0 avatar
      randy in rocklin

      To Dan:
      You can also tack on a 25% Democrat surcharge for driving around with an ICE in your car.

      • 0 avatar
        JD-Shifty

        hey randy, how’s life in the parler rabbithole?

        • 0 avatar
          sayahh

          ICE vehicles causing permafrost to melt could potentially release ancient viruses that might make COVID really look like a mild cold. The surcharge that you claim are being imposed on ICE drivers pales in comparison to the decades of corn and oil subsidies. THAT is the TRUE “redistribution of wealth” that has gone on right under people’s noses.

          Remember when the Exxon and Mobil and later the Chevron and Texaco mergers were supposed to create jobs or not cause rising gas prices at the pump? Then they ended up having fiscal year after fiscal year of record profits–all while they were still getting money from the government, i.e., US taxpayers? Talk about double-taxation! Handing money over to oil companies THEN TAXED AGAIN later at the pump. Even if you drive a EV, they still get the pork money. How about that for fairness, randy?

          Yes, you can even call it an “Al Gore Tax” to make you feel more superior, but the entire world agrees (even China and Shell and Big Oil, albeit slowly because they’ve lied and covered up their own findings back in the 70s or possibly even earlier) that climate change is real and CAFE standards are just a band-aid, but GOP politicians not only don’t want to do anything about it, they are preventing liberals, progressives and green party and environmentalists from trying to at least do something about it before we finally transition to fully EV, hydrogen and/or whatever new technology hasn’t been invented yet.

          Just stick to car talk? Well, randy you started it by bringing politics into this, and yes, EV drivers will also eventually have to contribute because they drive on the same roads as ICE vehicles, and Tesla Model S with a super fast 0-60 time will cause more problems than a compact sedan without ludicrous speed settings.

          GM, Goodyear, Standard Oil and others conspired to get rid of the streetcar, and the lack of bullet trains and other public transportation alternatives is causing our freeways to be taken over by big rigs and semi-trucks to deliver Amazon packages and other goods. So potholes and fading street marking that automated self-driving vehicles cannot make out? Somebody has to pay for that.

          • 0 avatar
            stuki

            “ICE vehicles causing permafrost to melt could potentially release ancient viruses that might make COVID really look like a mild cold”

            Of course, in the real world, viruses tend to be less problematic when it gets warmer…….

            Besides, ICE vehicles doesn’t cause anything wrt CO2. Only actually leaving cheaply recoverable oil in ground for all of posterity, will do that. Absent that, all that less CO2 released by ICE vehicles results in, is more oil available for other uses. Like powering hiluxes, and humwees, in places where solar farms, windmills and charging stations are hard to keep safe from sabotage.

          • 0 avatar
            zerofoo

            “and the lack of bullet trains and other public transportation alternatives is causing our freeways to be taken over by big rigs and semi-trucks to deliver Amazon packages and other goods”

            In a direct-to-your-doorstep world, how do “public transportation alternatives” fix this last mile problem?

            Lots of companies use long-haul trains to get close to their warehouses and use trucks to deliver to the last mile.

            Even countries with robust public transportation infrastructure use trucks to perform last-mile delivery.

            It’s not possible build enough public transportation infrastructure to eliminate delivery trucks. Doubly so in a post COVID-19 world.

    • 0 avatar
      RHD

      Crude oil prices aren’t tied to the political party in the White House. That’s silly rhetoric.
      Historically, Democratic presidents inherit a lousy economy from the Republican, and turn it around. Pessimism about Joe Biden comes from an overdose of Fox News, and is nothing but misinformed sour grapes.

      I agree about Honda styling. It went over the top, and needs to get back to normal.

  • avatar
    ABC-2000

    I was sure (at some point) that Honda will combine the Accord and Civic into one car, same as they did with the TL and TSX into TLX, I guess I was wrong.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    If you keep turning sedans into Lamborghinis (interior room, cargo capacity, entry/egress, visibility), don’t be surprised when people keep buying other vehicles instead.

    The OEM’s are kind of speaking out of both sides of their mouths here, since they generally make more money on “SUV” vs. “car.”

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