By on April 15, 2019

mini electric concept

With governments strongly encouraging the growth of electric vehicles and automakers repositioning various brands to align with that goal, it’s worth a manufacturer’s time to examine the market. Mini, which BMW Group intends to evolve into an EV-focused nameplate, plans to release its first battery powered vehicle in 2020. However, before that occurs, the brand decided to commission Engine International for a little market research.

The firm conducted a general population survey of 1,004 presumably average Americans — all above the age of 18 and split equally by gender. Unfortunately for BMW, the results were less than promising. Most people still don’t seem to have a handle on what EVs offer or how they function. However, that might not necessarily be because they are clueless morons. Apathy undoubtedly plays a role here, especially as EV ownership remains relatively rare. 

“It is important for us as a brand to understand how consumers want to use their electric vehicles, and what they know and don’t know about them as we move closer to the launch of the MINI Cooper S E electric vehicle in the U.S.,” said Andrew Cutler, head of Mini’s corporate communications in the U.S. “The more intelligence we gather, the more we can educate consumers about the many benefits of electric mobility and what MINI has to offer in the new MINI Cooper S E electric vehicle coming in early 2020.”

With 74 percent of respondents claiming they had no clue where the nearest EV charging station is located in relation to their home and 66 percent claiming to believe that electric cars were primarily for early adopters, Mini said the survey underscored a need to “raise mainstream awareness around EV technology.”

That’s no doubt true, especially if the brand hopes to thrive after shifting away from internal combustion engines. We’re more inclined to believe that mainstream tastes simply haven’t caught up to electric cars. They’re still relatively novel contraptions associated with a mobility culture that makes some people a little uneasy.

Other less encouraging aspects of the survey included feedback on charging times and what EVs were good for. Most individuals claimed they were primarily for commuting and urban driving. It’s an assumption many automakers are trying to change, but you one could still make a strong case for. While charging stations are cropping up all over North America, the network isn’t quite robust enough to ensure headache-free EV ownership across the board. Relatively wide gaps in some rural areas remain.

When consumers were asked to choose an acceptable amount of time it should take to charge an EV, the most popular answer (at 28 percent) was “I don’t know,” followed by “30 minutes” (at 25 percent). As charging/battery technology continues to advance, times vary wildly between vehicles and stations. At-home charging frequently requires tucking the car in for the night while some newer e-vehicles, utilizing high-capacity stations, can get a majority charge within 30 minutes. However, a complete charge usually takes substantially more time — if you have a smartphone, you’ve seen this phenomenon in action. That last 20 percent always seems to take forever.

There was some good news for Mini within the survey, though. The company said that many who responded to the poll indicated the federal tax credit would not be a significant part of their decision making process if they decided to purchase an electric car — perhaps because they were unaware that it equates to free money from the government. We don’t care what you’re buying — a $7,500 tax credit is absolutely going to influence your decision.

The automaker also claimed that 73 percent of the consumers surveyed said that a battery range of up to 75 miles was sufficient for their daily use. That’s something carmakers can deliver now, suggesting that range anxiety might not be a problem for Mini or BMW Group as the shift toward electrification continues. But we still think a cautious approach is the correct one. Build those EVs and improve the charging network; just don’t presume your customer base is universally ready — even with the proper education from automakers.

mini electric concept

[Images: BMW Group]

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63 Comments on “Mini Survey Showcases Mixed Opinions on EVs...”


  • avatar
    thelaine

    “Most people still don’t seem to have a handle on what EVs offer or how they function.”

    Or maybe they do, and that is why they are not interested.

    • 0 avatar
      geozinger

      Are you kidding me? The vast majority of folks don’t even know which set of wheels are the drive wheels on their cars. If you asked them what snap oversteer is, they’d have no clue. In reality, most folks don’t have a handle on what ICE cars offer or how they function. The vast majority just know you put fuel in it when the light comes on and get the oil changed every three years or 36K miles. I’ve seen lease returns, it’s horrible what people do to their cars…

      I really think there’s a case to sell BEVs to the mechanically reclined people who operate cars right now. They all have cell phones, they know that those things need plugged in (at least) at night. Just tell them to do the same thing with the car, they’ll be fine. Now, keeping them from looking at their phone while driving? That’s a whole different issue.

      • 0 avatar
        ToddAtlasF1

        If you were remotely informed enough to insult the empirical knowledge of others, you’d realize that far more people have the option of plugging in a phone than have the option of plugging in a car at home.

      • 0 avatar
        thelaine

        It is easier to rationalize the imposition of solutions on others if you assume they are ignorant and you are, relative to them, an expert. That is the mindset of authoritarians, particularly those in the environmental left.
        Next step: mandates and subsidies designed to create a “market.”

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          No one’s imposing anything on you. Right now, the government’s giving people tax breaks for a whole range of optional stuff like buying houses, having kids, getting married, and paying college tuition.

          If you don’t want an EV, don’t buy one. But don’t hand me this “they’re forcing me to finance someone else’s stuff” nonsense unless you’re turning down any or all of the tax breaks above.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            It’s a wonder how you’ve never been hit by a train.

          • 0 avatar
            geozinger

            @Freed: It’s always the same several people in these discussions. I’d had a couple fingers of a nice bourbon last evening and it affected my decision making skills… I shouldn’t have risen to the bait…

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Sure sign that you’re winning an argument: you get insulted.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            What have you won? Did Detroit Electric disappear from the history books? Your other argument is basically saying that Venezuelans who didn’t support socialism should get out of the bread lines.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Ah, it’s back to the “electric cars sucked 100 years ago, so they suck now” argument.

            I’d mention that battery technology has progressed somewhat in the last 100 years, but what’s the point?

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            One hundred years ago EVs did suck relative to ICE vehicles. One hundred and fifteen years ago EVs did not suck relative to ICE vehicles. Which one has progressed more in the past hundred years? Do good ideas or bad ideas rely on a command economy to sell?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            No one’s commanding anyone to buy an EV.

          • 0 avatar
            thelaine

            “There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.” Robert A. Heinlein

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            A bunch of companies that have been in the business for sixty to a hundred and thirty-three years are in the process of abandoning their bread and butter in favor of EVs that can’t be sold at a profit to a market with minimal demonstrated demand, and you think people are adopting EVs freely. Are you being dishonest, or do you really not see the problem with this reality?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @thelaine:
            This is the part where you show me evidence that anyone’s been forced to buy an EV.

            @Todd:
            This is the part where you show me some law or regulation that forces automakers to produce EVs.

            Now, get busy, fellas!

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            The CARB Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate is law in ten states. You can argue that EVs are anything other than ZEVs, but that’s not how the totalitarians see it.

            https://insideevs.com/unpacking-the-zero-emission-vehicle-mandate/

            You would make an awful lawyer. Never ask a question you don’t already know the answer to in an argument.

  • avatar
    Steve Biro

    No matter how badly some people, companies or special interests want them, EV’s are not ready for prime time for the vast majority of drivers.

    Driving range must be better – reliably over 300 miles for most vehicles – and recharge times have to come way, way down. Can you imagine thousands of EV’s trying to get out of a coastal town with a hurricane bearing down? And the charging infrastructure for our EV’s remains a joke.

    A hybrid would be as far as I would go toward electrification of my driving for quite some time to come.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      @steve Biro: “EV’s are not ready for prime time for the vast majority of drivers.”

      Vast majority? not true. For those that have to use on-street parking it’s probably true, but definitely not for anyone else.

      “reliably over 300 miles for most vehicles ”

      Why?? I’d say 100 miles range at 65 mph when it’s 10 below zero F would be fine. That might mean 300 or more miles EPA range depending on the technology, but that may not be the case with some of the newer technologies. Of course, mileage requirements for individuals varies. If you live in a warm climate, the -10 requirement isn’t needed.

      “and recharge times have to come way, way down. ”

      Charging times have come down with newer cars. Both Porsche and Tesla have reduced charging times recently. The article is incorrect in stating that home charging is an overnight operation. My car is done in less than three hours at home. Even with older technology, it’s not as bad as the article states. For example Saturday, I only needed a quick top-up to make it home with some padding. I barely had enough time to hit the bathroom and quickly eat a bag of chips before it was done. I was hungry and thought I’d have time for lunch while the car charged, but the damned thing was too fast.

      “And the charging infrastructure for our EV’s remains a joke.”

      Not for Tesla. It’s fine. Shell just bought a US charging network and I’m sure we’ll see chargers at Shell stations soon. Chademo/CCS has a ways to go, but I really don’t have a problem now. For me, when my 300+ mile range car arrives, it will be extremely rare that I need public charging away from home. I think the furthest I drive in a single day is less than 200 miles.

      “Can you imagine thousands of EV’s trying to get out of a coastal town with a hurricane bearing down?”

      EVs for most people are 100% charged every time you get in the car at home. Not so much for gas cars. so, an EV might have 300 miles of range and a gas car maybe 100 mile when the order to leave is given. Lines at gas stations during evacuations are pretty bad, so good luck getting fuel. I’ve been in mass evacuations before and traffic is slow stop and go driving, so fuel consumption is high. You won’t get 40 MPG during an evacuation, so your gasser won’t have full-range. I remember worrying about running out of gas. An EV in those conditions might even get higher than normal range.

      • 0 avatar
        Steve Biro

        mcs… if all most Americans did was commute to work or shop locally, you might have a point. But they don’t. I stand by my original statement: EV’s are not ready for prime time for the vast majority of American drivers. Perhaps they will be some day. But not yet. Given the price of EV’s, I and most others are not interested in more limitations in our vehicles or travel options. And until every gas station has several charging stations as well, the infrastructure remains a joke.

        • 0 avatar
          Carlson Fan

          “if all most Americans did was commute to work or shop locally, you might have a point. But they don’t. I stand by my original statement: EV’s are not ready for prime time for the vast majority of American drivers.”

          As a primary and only vehicle I agree……..but as a second or third vehicle in a single family home they absolutely are ready for prime time. Almost a no brainer IMO. They drive better, have less maintenance & once you get used to fueling up at your own home you’ll absolutely hate having to stop at the gas station to fill up. Efficiency wise they crush any ICE for those short trips so many of us make on a daily basis.

          • 0 avatar
            krhodes1

            They are OK. They cost too much up front for anything with long range. And I think it is hard to justify even $25K for something that really has very limited utility beyond commuting to work. Gas is just too cheap in the US.

            If I still had a daily commute, I would consider a used low-range electric if it was cheap enough though. But I don’t.

            Ultimately, electrics are a big part of the future, and you have to start somewhere. But for most people they aren’t there yet.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        If it works for you GREAT, have at it, I won’t stop you – but I drove more than 300 miles yesterday. I do think they should stand on their own without subsidies however. I’m not willing to make the necessary compromises. As I said, electrics with enough range to not be a hassle cost too much. I don’t drive enough to care, because gas is too cheap. I’d consider a used Leaf or something if I had a commute, but I don’t. I don’t find them better to drive, neither of my houses can support anything higher than the lowest 240 volt charger due to electrical system issues, and I have no interest in planning trips around charging infrastructure.

        If you really want to save the planet, ride a bicycle. And FWIW, I got 35mpg evacuating from Irma in my GTI, despite the traffic. Slow is good for gas cars too. And I went back while the power was still out in most of Florida and Georgia – good luck doing that in an electric. A portable generator will run a whole bunch of gas pumps, but it isn’t going to do much to charge a Tesla.

    • 0 avatar
      geozinger

      Horses for courses, people. I would never take a Lamborghini out in the woods on a two track. Nor would I take a HD pickup to the race track, unless I was trailering a Lamborghini.

      Electric cars may not work for you, but they might work for others. Try as I might, I have a kid who just doesn’t care about cars. She would be the perfect candidate for a PHEV or BEV, but her present apartment building doesn’t offer on-site charging.

      I may end up springing for a used PHEV or BEV for myself; on days I only drive to work and back I do about 20 miles. Even if I have to go somewhere after work, a car with a <100 mile range would barely use half of it's capacity.

      My other cars are paid off and my circa 1935 house has been upgraded with high voltage wiring (to accommodate welders and clothes dryers), so charging one is not a big deal for me. But, I'm lucky, I have choices that some don't. For those that don't, there are literally hundreds of ICE models to choose from. The infrastructure to run them is proven and quite well known. Purchased and maintained carefully, almost any of them will give good service for years.

      While I'm being slightly sarcastic about choices, note that I will most likely purchase a used PHEV or BEV. First, I like depreciation in this instance, secondly, I don't want to tie up a lot of capital in this vehicle. I do have the choice of other vehicles, including my stable of bicycles that I ride for short trips in warm weather (I live in Michigan, biking in snow is problematic).

      Were my circumstances different, I may or may not choose to do what I'm planning on doing. By the same token, I don't urinate on folks who do other things than what I'm doing. Freedom of choice. We should all respect others ability to do so.

    • 0 avatar
      HotPotato

      @Steve: That’s the conventional wisdom. But as the study shows, the conventional wisdom is wrong. People do have a good idea how much driving they *actually* do daily, and they report that it’s under 75 miles, not over 300. What they don’t know is how recharging works — just like someone who had never seen a gas car filled up in their whole life would have no idea how refueling a gas car works. And they can learn that equally fast when the time comes.

      For most people in a position to get a Mini, it’s going to be their second car, their in-town car. There’s nothing they need it to do that an electric Mini cannot do.

      The edge cases are the single-car households that don’t have charging capability at home and regularly travel an unusually high number of miles in places where infrastructure is sparse. Everyone obsesses about those edge cases, which given the low level of EV adoption at this point is frankly stupid — there’s plenty of second-car demand to start with. If you’re an edge case, you either shouldn’t and won’t buy an EV, or you’ll want one enough to do the research, identify one that suits your needs (hint: starts with a T and ends with an A) and buy it if you can swing it.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      “EV’s are not ready for prime time for the vast majority of drivers.”

      Well, for the vast majority of drivers, diesel heavy duty trucks, Mustangs, Wranglers, convertibles, and a myriad of other types of vehicles wouldn’t be ready for prime time either. That means that no one buys them, right?

  • avatar
    FormerFF

    Having driven a PHEV for the last five years, I have to say that EVs own the in town driving experience. My daughter is away at school and I drive her car, which has a conventional automatic, one day a week. Criminy, what a difference. The EV’s response to the accelerator is so much better, and the quiet and smoothness is greatly appreciated, especially in traffic.

  • avatar
    krhodes1

    I just don’t care. Electrics cost too much for the minimal operating cost savings they would offer for me. And they have ZERO other attractive attributes at this point. Teslas are overpriced garbage, the rest are economy cars other than the super-exotics. And they have too many compromises for my automotive use case. I have no regular commute, but I do longer drives regularly. I have no interest in having to plan trips around charging stations. And nobody makes an electric with a manual transmission – I find automatics boring, and electrics even more so. And I HATE the whining noises they all make. Give me the muted sound of exploding dead dinosaur juice please. Or the not-so-muted in the case of the sport exhaust I just put on my Fiata… :-)

    But mostly, I just don’t drive enough to care – 5/600 miles a month, split across five cars.

    • 0 avatar
      Tele Vision

      I, too, prefer the sound of money exploding to the sound of an electric toothbrush – for now. For the two disparate sides to meet there must be a common ground. I’ve wanted a four-motor vehicle with a small Diesel for 20 years. 100% torque at zero RPM and 1000Km range – and no ‘range anxiety’ at all. 800 ft/lbs shouldn’t be hard to achieve with four motors. Imagine that in a truck towing your boat or holiday trailer. If in a car, well, I’ll sell my CTS-V to get one. Tomorrow.

      Full disclosure: I don’t like Diesel engines. I also don’t like battery-powered cars, except on golf courses. I definitely don’t like massive computing power in a car. That said, put the above three together elements in any body style you desire, and you’ll have a killer truck or a fantastic highway cruiser or a manic sports car.

      Fact.

    • 0 avatar
      Carlson Fan

      ” Give me the muted sound of exploding dead dinosaur juice please. Or the not-so-muted in the case of the sport exhaust I just put on my Fiata… :-)”

      I’m all for that, just not in a 4 banger Fiat. Now the exhaust note coming from the LS goodness under the hood of my Tahoe while I’ve got my foot in it – that’s music!

      To each their own……….get it!

  • avatar
    ToddAtlasF1

    EVs have a serious image problem because of their promotion by command economy fascists and their current market being made up of parasites who feel entitled to receive wealth taken from their neighbors by force. Only the most brainwashed bottom feeders of society haven’t come to grips with the twelve year ecological collapse event horizon having remained twelve years for the past fifty-one years. In a remotely free country, that’s no way to market walking back one hundred and twelve years of progress since the ICE vehicle surpassed the EV.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      @ToddAtlasF1: Parasites? Really. I’ve earned my money and pay a lot in taxes. Todd, I guess you and the rest of the far left don’t like to see job creators keeping some of their hard earned money. The money I get from my oil depletion allowance far exceeds any EV subsidy I get.

      • 0 avatar
        ToddAtlasF1

        You can always stop driving subsidized cars and then you won’t be perceived to be a parasite taking a subsidy for a luxury purchase that you bore other people about and a burden to society in general. You’re welcome. I’d rather light a candle than curse your darkness.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Don’t bother, mcs, you’re dealing with folks who rail about the evils of the big bad gubmint underwriting new technology using a microchips and the Internet, both of which were underwritten by the big bad gubmint.

        And then they conveniently forget how much money’s been made by private enterprise off both technologies. I’m sure none of them own any tech stocks. This is the price one pays for Living The Galt Life.

        • 0 avatar
          ToddAtlasF1

          You seem to think EVs are a new technology instead of a way for the government to set the public’s freedom of movement back a hundred and fifteen years. You’ll fall for anything.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          how much you want to bet he conveniently fails to decline Medicare and SSI benefits when he gets old.

          but will still be whining about “socialism.”

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            In fairness, you pay in to Social Security and Medicare, and then you get back what you paid in, so they’re more like prepaid insurance plans that happen to be government-run, versus getting a tax break for buying an electric car.

            But I bet every Galt wannabe out there definitely turns down the tax breaks for getting married, having kids, buying a house, paying their kids’ college tuition, and so on. God forbid that someone else is forced *at gunpoint!!* to finance their lifestyle choices. That’d be TYRANNY!!!!!!!!!!!

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            I’m not married, don’t have kids, paid cash for my home… Next! I’m not for sale. You certainly are an example of how the government corrupts people. When you start thinking you’re entitled to something, you’ve accepted your serfdom. Basically, you’re saying that anyone who accepts the government’s decision to redistribute resources has given up their voice in governance. You certainly portray yourself as a happy subject, in love with your cage. Too bad you live here. You’re not worthy.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Whatever you say, Todd. Go with God.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “In fairness, you pay in to Social Security and Medicare, and then you get back what you paid in,”

            that’s the spin that sold people on it, but c’mon, the money you pay in doesn’t just sit in a vault in burlap sacks with your name written on it until you retire. that money was spent decades ago. People collecting now are taking money out of my paycheck now.

            Frankly, people should save for their own damn retirements.

            (somewhat facetious here)

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Well, yeah, Social Security’s been mismanaged. It’s still not a tax credit, though.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Simplistic customer segmentation for BEV’s (there is another category of torque fiends which we will ignore for now):

    A) Early adopter with whatever motivation – emissions, save the planet, screw the oil companies, other (legitimate or not).

    B) Practical thinker who will move to a BEV when they are comfortable with the idea and when it makes practical sense for their use case.

    C) Avoider with a strong aversion to the whole idea (legitimate or not) or with a use case that rules out a BEV anytime soon.

    Vocal A’s have managed to hack off a lot of C’s. B’s are watching (or unaware) and waiting.

    You probably can’t build a business case around selling to A’s only. If your business case includes C’s, you need to rethink your business case. You’ve got to get to the B’s.

    A’s want/desire/covet the unique science-fair clown-car styling (SFCCS) that most of the conventional carmakers have brought to the BEV segment so far. B’s either don’t care, don’t like it, or can’t stand the loss of utility/livability that the SFCCS brings along for the ride. C’s hate you even worse and think SFCCS is part of the joke.

    Time will tell if all the announced-but-not-yet-on-the-market BEV entries will step away from SFCCS to be viewed as a ‘real car’ (and yeah I know anything-but-car but I like sedans – and hatchbacks – so shoot me).

    In the meantime, don’t be surprised by the survey results – you’re asking the B’s to comment on something they’ve never seen or heard of.

    (And don’t be surprised if the OEM and the big oil company who are suddenly interested in BEV’s and recharging stations happen to stumble into a little sabotage – they are both fine with the status quo.)

    • 0 avatar
      Gedrven

      One more, though I don’t know how big a category it is:

      D) Would benefit from a BEV, understands their advantages and limitations, and has no aversion to happily using one for 90% of their vehicle tasks. However, has a strong aversion to virtually all cars made in the last decade or two regardless of powertrain; despises SFCSS, unsafe visibility, and electronannies to the point that they are dealbreakers.

      One such D drives things from the previous millenium, hoping that an EV conversion becomes realistic before gas becomes prohibitively expensive.

  • avatar
    ravenuer

    Regarding the survey of “1,004 presumably average Americans”, did they ask if any were EV owners? That’s not clear. If not many (or any) were, then why would they know where the nearest charging station was? Or how long it takes to charge it? Seems like an irrelevant survey.

  • avatar
    Carlson Fan

    “With 74 percent of respondents claiming they had no clue where the nearest EV charging station is located in relation to their home”

    What they need to realize is their home is the charging station. That’s the beauty and a huge selling point of an EV. The infrastructure is already in place, it’s the electrical in their homes garage. Who needs public charging when you can just do it in your home. Way more convenient and cheaper.

    • 0 avatar
      ToddAtlasF1

      What percentage of Americans live in single-family homes with garages? The same people forcing Americans into EVs are doing everything they can to concentrate the population and eliminate the middle class.

      • 0 avatar
        Carlson Fan

        “What percentage of Americans live in single-family homes with garages?”

        Don’t know the percentage but the number of single family homes in the US is in the millions. That’s not gonna change anytime soon.

        • 0 avatar
          krhodes1

          Oh? Nearly all the new construction around me is condos and apartment buildings. And I live in God’s Waiting Room Suburban FL, not anywhere urban.

          People can’t afford houses in a lot of cases. Or don’t want to be tied down to a place for years and years. Houses are cheap here compared to the northeast or California, but wages are LOOOOW here too.

          • 0 avatar
            Carlson Fan

            “Oh? Nearly all the new construction around me is condos and apartment buildings. And I live in God’s Waiting Room Suburban FL, not anywhere urban.”

            So that means single family homes are disappearing??? New housing developments are going up all over the place in MN. Overall the number of single family homes is increasing in this country, not the other way around. In SW Minneapolis where I grew up people are tearing down $350-400K homes and building new ones. There is also a lot of new condo’s going up in the downtown area of Minneapolis but not at the expense of single family homes. We’ll both be ant food well before we see the demise of the single family home in this country.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Here’s one simple reason why density is going up: we figured out how much it actually costs to build a transportation and infrastructure network that will truly support sprawl, and taxpayers aren’t OK with it.

            It’s cheaper to do “in-fill” because the infrastructure’s already there.

            Rule one in American politics: follow the money.

        • 0 avatar
          ToddAtlasF1

          Let me put this another way. The US has a fleet of about three hundred million vehicles. How many recharging stations or homes appropriate for recharging are there?

          • 0 avatar
            Carlson Fan

            Not enough for 300 million obviously. But if you read my comment above I’m advocating that EV’s are a viable choice as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle for families in single family homes. Which is in the millions.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            I’m all for people who are in the position and have the money and desire to buy EVs to do just that. Unfortunately, what’s really going on here is that a bunch of misanthropic billionaires are using treasonous politicians to leverage EV mandates to dismantle the middle class.

            Choices are for people stuck in the past, scared of change, backwards, racist and destined for the scrap-heap of history. Just ask CNN and the New York Times. They know more about what people should be driving than the people who need to get to work.

            So do groups like the Sierra Club, who have already convinced imbeciles that live well below what their means would support if they weren’t contributing to the Sierra Club to lobby against their ability to own nice homes in beautiful places. I suppose EVs will serve a purpose if people ever realize the nature of their enemies’ ambitions. They’re certainly easy to spot.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    There is really no need for an electric vehicle push in the US. We have plenty of oil, mostly clean air and ICE vehicles don’t contribute much to air pollution anyway. Batteries have an environmental cost. The whole thing is just part of the doomsday religion. I believe in the separation of church and state. Stop taking government subsidies and I will stop opposing your church.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    “Forced into EVs.”

    “EVs are a church.”

    And so on. Wow, change is hard for some folks to deal with.

    People forget that the technology we’re using to discuss this – microprocessor-based computers and the Internet – all came about because taxpayers were “forced” to underwrite both technologies. Last I checked, that investment paid off decently. If we have to pony up some money to create a new product that will employ and create wealth for Americans, then I’m in.

    By the way, as far as the high-minded “battery production promotes human misery” argument is concerned: how much oil do we buy from countries that treat their people about as well as Torquemada treated Jews? How many Americans have died from mining accidents and black lung?

    • 0 avatar
      Master Baiter

      …”microprocessor-based computers and the Internet – all came about because taxpayers were “forced” to underwrite both technologies.”

      Computers and internet service never involved tax credits granted to wealthy early-adopters.

      “how much oil do we buy from countries that treat their people about as well as Torquemada treated Jews?”

      Oil is an international commodity. We produce as much as we consume, so we don’t need the middle east.

      “how many Americans have died from mining accidents and black lung?”

      ICE cars don’t burn coal, but EVs do, to the extent they are powered by coal-fired power plants.

  • avatar
    MoparRocker74

    Minis are supposed to be fun drivers cars. EVs are none of that. They might make an ok replacement for brain dead commuter pods like Corollas since they’re just about as engaging to operate and are simply a response to mitigate drudgery—bumper to bumper commutes.

    I keep seeing people advocating EVs as a 2nd or 3rd car. REALLY? Do you seriously expect anyone to believe it’s financially sane to drop over $30k minimum on a crapbox for running errands? A Mitsubishi Mirage starts at under $14K if you must have something new for that extra car. Someone show me the minimum $16K worth of value or fuel savings from an EV? If you wanna go really hardcore, the elephant in the room is the $2K-$5K Corolla. Say it with me: Electrification is an expensive, dumb scam!

    • 0 avatar
      HotPotato

      “EVs are not fun driver’s cars”

      Literally the dumbest thing I’ve read on this site, no offense. Drive a Tesla Model 3 Performance. Hell, since we’re talking Minis, drive a Fiat 500e.

      I sure as hell didn’t drive a 500e for the long range. I drove it because it was a hoot to drive, and it went as far as you would every want to try to comfortably ride in any 500. Say it with me: horses for courses.

      As to your elephant (I’m always happy to find one in the room myself): wait, a used ICE car is cheaper than a new EV? Why, you don’t say! I have news, a used Leaf is as cheap as a used Corolla, and has the advantage of never needing gas or oil, having the fuel station right at home, not polluting your neighborhood, and costing less to fuel.

      A cheap used EV makes a great second car. An expensive high-zoot EV makes a great primary car if you can afford it and like that sort of thing. As for the big fat middle…it’s coming.

  • avatar
    stingray65

    People claim to only need 75 miles of range, but people don’t buy “need”, they buy “want”. If we only bought need, virtually no one would be buying SUVs because virtually no one needs to go off road. Virtually no one would be buying an engine or suspension upgrade because the base 2.5 liter 150 hp with skinny all-season radials is more than enough to break every speed law in the USA. Nobody also needs sunroofs, ventilated seats, 900 speaker stereos, or a 21 foot long pickups with 10,000+ lbs of towing capacity, but they buy them because they “want” them. 75 miles would be more than enough for most people’s commuter needs, but people “want” to be able to drive across the country at a moments notice, or off-road far away from power outlets, or to get in and out of a car without having to constantly remember to plug-in or unplug the damn battery with some bulky cable.

    • 0 avatar
      HotPotato

      For those people, there are Teslas. And Jaguars and Audis and all the other rich-guy EVs coming soon. But we don’t need any more rich-guy EVs. We need someone to make a Leaf but better and cheaper. We need, basically, the Tesla of Corollas. Musk seems to have taken the first step toward admitting that he runs a luxury brand and can’t afford to do that, so while the Model 3 is a step in that direction, it’s the Chinese who will probably get there.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    “Most people still don’t seem to have a handle on what EVs offer or how they function.”

    So? If you need to educate your customers on features/benefits, that’s part of the sales process. Maybe the problem is that BMW/MINI relies on its badge and its salescritters don’t know how to educate people.

    Just spitballing the obvious….


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