By on March 8, 2018

Steel Mill

There was quite the backlash against President Trump’s plan to impose sweeping steel and aluminum tariffs on Wednesday. However, the White House pressed onward to formalize the measures on Thursday afternoon with assurances from the Commander-in-chief that they will be imposed “in a very loving way.”

Apparently, Canada and Mexico won’t be subjected to the 25-percent tax on steel imports and a 10-percent tariff on inbound aluminum. But the exception may only be temporary and the overall feeling on the tariff proposals are mixed, to say the least. Considering that the automotive industry accounts for a significant portion of the nation’s steel and aluminum imports, Rust Belt states are worried. Michigan, Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania receive around 20 percent of the steel and aluminum sent to the United States. Each of the states went red in the 2015 election after Trump said he would protect manufacturing jobs. But Trump claims that’s exactly what he’s doing. 

Last week the president took to social media to suggest a trade war might be what America needs to scare its partners into playing ball. He later mentioned that the government must protect its workforce, suggesting that the domestic steel industry needs a lot of help.

However, members from his own party requested Trump reconsider his position on the tariffs — stating they could do more harm than good to manufacturing businesses across the nation. Europe urged similar caution, suggesting the decision could harm business relations between the regions (while threatening its own America-specific import fees in response). China also weighed in, saying it might impose its own tariffs on American imports to the country — potentially harming farmers, since China is the biggest buyer of U.S. soybeans.

Canada, which sends more steel to the United States than any other nation, has numerous firms on the cusp of a full-blown freakout. Understandable, considering coiled steel prices are currently at a seven-year high. The Canadian government has similarly expressed its distaste for the White House’s tariff proposals.

Regardless, they’re going through. Trump will sign an order on Thursday over steel and aluminum tariffs that he said could spare certain countries if they have strong trading and military ties with the United States. That’s good news for Canada. Doubly good, since White House trade adviser Peter Navarro told Fox News the levy likely won’t initially apply to NAFTA members. But the assumption here is that the U.S. will continue to use the threat of steel and aluminum tariffs to convince Canada to negotiate a better trade deal during continued NAFTA talks.

Another country unlikely to be affected by the import fees is Australia, which the president called a “long-term partner.” Germany, South Korea, and Japan are also major steel exporters that could find themselves exempt from taxation, based on their military ties to the United States. However, the U.S. currently has a rather large trade deficit with all three.

Bloomberg reports that Trump will sign the formal proclamations on the tariffs Thursday afternoon in Washington, D.C. Afterward, the president will hold a meeting to discuss the choices made. So far, he has said it’s “going to be very fair, we’re going to be very flexible” while still protecting the American workforce. We’ll be sure to update you.

Update: President Trump went ahead with a pledge to impose import tariffs, as described above, on steel and aluminum, signing two proclamations Thursday afternoon at the White House. As expected, Canada and Mexico are exempt from the tariffs, though there’s no guarantee it will stay that way. Trump alluded to “ongoing negotiations,” meaning NAFTA talks, and implied the two trading partners could lose their special status if renegotiations break down.

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119 Comments on “UPDATED: Steel Tariffs Are Coming, Canada and Mexico May See Exemptions...”


  • avatar
    SoCalMikester

    guess who wants to see us strain relations with our allies? guess whos the manchurian candidate to do it? all those loans are overdue, and he cant launder any more money

    • 0 avatar
      Tinn-Can

      Obama?

      • 0 avatar
        Peter Gazis

        Yes, Its Obama
        Seems you create alot of enemies while fund raising to build a library.

        Just wait until its done and he turns his attention to doing charity work.
        His first project will be studing the space between republican ears in search of a brain.

        • 0 avatar
          ClutchCarGo

          He actually is ticking off some locals in Chicago who aren’t too crazy about closing Cornell Dr and losing so much of Jackson Park. At least he isn’t insisting that it be on the lakefront like George Lucas with his Stars Wars museum.

          • 0 avatar
            Peter Gazis

            With or without the library, Cornell Dr. Will probably be closed to improve neiborhood access to the park. Real estate values in the area (Woodlawn) are up. Chicago is trying to make the area more livable.

      • 0 avatar
        CaddyDaddy

        Summation of Obama’s days in Springfield. Obama? Obama? “Oh ya. Ahh.. I’m a Voting ahh, oh ya! present.”

        • 0 avatar
          Peter Gazis

          CaddyDaddy

          Its common knowledge that Obama brought Democrats and Republicans together on various bills in Springfield. Talked out their differences at late night poker games.

    • 0 avatar
      ClutchCarGo

      This trade dispute does seem tailor made to widen divisions between the US and the EU, something that Putin desires. Ending the Ukraine sanctions, in addition to voiding the Magnitsky act, is critical to keep the Russian economy from sinking.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        ClutchCarGo,
        Yup, it seems some of our fellow TTAC B&B are oblivious to the $5.5 trillion per year trade between the EU and US. That’s the real silk road.

        The US should concentrate on widening this to cover a large FTA across all OECD economies.

        If anyone is going to allow the Chinese and Russians to gain an upper hand it’s the US Right Wing.

        But, they are the ones who don’t like taxation and think freedom is the ability to drive a pickup with an M-4 hanging off the rear window. What others in the world drive pickups with AK-47s on the rear windows?

        • 0 avatar
          TW5

          Russia is the enemy of a band of clowns who dismantled the USSR and created the US puppet oligarchy. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but in the era of Putin, the precarious political games necessary to maintain leverage are not worth it. Selling Russia uranium. Throwing Timenchenko in jail for signing an O&G contract with Putin. Stupid spy games and chicanery in Venezuela. Installing Yanukovich in Ukraine. Fighting a proxy war against Russia in Syria. Applying and enforcing sanctions.

          This stupid carrot and stick game isn’t working, and the main existential threat is against HRC, Obama, and a bunch of Euroclowns who were violating seemingly every NATO and national security tenet to play game of thrones with Vlad.

          The right wing is not going to sell Russia uranium or give them hypersonic missile technology or discontinue the US space program such that US astronauts must use Russian spacecraft to reach the international space station. We’re not going to say the 1980s wants its foreign policy back if Mitt Romney says Russia is a rising geopolitical threat. If you long for the days of Obama bowing to despots as a show of good faith, you will be disappointed.

          • 0 avatar
            cdotson

            I’m glad somebody gets it. The harpies squealing about Russian collusion are the true traitors upset things still didn’t turn out their way. It’s always worthwhile to take progressives’ accusations of misconduct against their opponents seriously because they appear to always be guilty of what they accuse others. Projection is strong with them.

  • avatar
    Sub-600

    We can’t levy a tariff on Canada, they never did anything to us. I mean outside of Nickelback, Justin Bieber, and Sidney Crosby.

  • avatar
    Middle-Aged Miata Man

    “Levy Metal” is one of the cleverest turns of phrase I’ve seen here in a long time.

  • avatar
    waywardboi313

    You know you have a serious problem in government when a 5 times bankrupt reality tv star thinks he is the brightest bulb in the pack and will not listen to HIS economic advisers! This will go bad as it did for Bush!

    • 0 avatar
      ernest

      Not debating that, but you know chitt got real when you realize the other guys don’t have any brighter bulbs in their pack either.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      waywardboi313,
      Trump’s Economic Advisor, Cohn quits the other day.

      But, the Australia Prime Minister sends Greg Norman “The Shark” golfing buddy of Trump to resolve the economic issues.

      Oh, our Prime Minister is an economist as well.

      Talk about being thick.

      http://www.afr.com/news/australia-hopeful-of-tariff-exemption-as-shark-helps-out-20180308-h0x6ui

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    Well, what’s the point of this? The largest importers are not targeted.

    All he’s going to achieve is to p!ss people off unnecessarily.

    What a fool and embarassment for the US.

  • avatar
    highdesertcat

    As anticipated, Canada and Mexico do see exemptions, for now. But if NAFTA cannot be renegotiated to favor the US, those exemptions will turn into tariffs until equitable individual new agreements can be reached.

    It should be clear and self-evident that this Trump guy is not messing around.

    I made it a point to watch the signing ceremony and it is clear to me from what was said that there will be some more major changes coming to America’s economy. My guess is that “Business as usual” is terminal and going downhill rapidly.

    • 0 avatar
      Peter Gazis

      I’m just waiting to open a sli resort on top of the mountain of coal Trump promised.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        I saw Sen Joe Manchin on TV say that his state is doing great business in exporting coal. I don’t think there will be a mountain of coal here since most of it is shipped to China and other places overseas.

        • 0 avatar
          Peter Gazis

          highdesertcat

          Given that 30% of the electricity generated in the U.S. still comes from coal. Sen. Joe Manchin should be a big supporter of electric cars.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Peter Gazis, I think that he’s just happy to get all those coal miners back to work, off welfare and paying taxes.

            I’m just happy that the US is utilizing more of its own resources and becoming energy independent.

            Even in NM our oil revenues are back up again, thanks to increased fracking.

        • 0 avatar
          Erikstrawn

          “most of it is shipped to China” …to make steel. Doh!

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      The POTUS announces tariffs on steel and aluminium including those from Canada and Mexico, unless a new NAFTA deal is signed. He does this without consulting his advisors. No research done or press release available. No actual statistics cited.

      His senior economic advisor then resigns.

      Then a few days later, the POTUS announces that the announced tariffs on Mexican and Canadian steel and aluminium will not be imposed, despite not having a new NAFTA deal signed.

      So he makes a public announcement and the end result is the opposite of what he announced.

      And his fan base call that ‘winning’.

      Is this another example of the old adage that “BS baffles brains”?

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        Trump is a different kinda POTUS. That’s for sure.

        These are interesting times we live in, and Trump’s fan-base is just about equally divided on these tariffs, while some ‘crats from Rust Belt States are doing cartwheels and backflips.

        Interesting times.

        We’ll see how the mid-term elections go.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        Arthur Dailey,
        I do believe the manner in which carries himself is destroying faith in the US system globally.

        The US even without any tariffs on steel, etc will be losing out as the US is becoming more and more as an unreliable partner to deal with.

        The dealings are not just economic, it’s political as well.

        I’m more about the debate on how Australia should align itself economically with trading partners and the US seems to be moving to the outer more and more. This is not good for US jobs.

        All you need is minor shifts in alliances in trade dealings and it cost US jobs.

        Trump might think he’s sounding tough and appeals to the Rust Belt people, but he’s costing US jobs already.

        Deals are being made between countries moving away from the US, right now. There is talk of expanding the Trans Pacific Trade Pact and some of the countries will not want the US to be involved down the track.

        The EU has already stated it has reconsidered it’s position of the US being a less reliable partner and is moving to have the capacity to operate with less US involvement.

        People in the US must realise what side their bread is buttered on. The US isn’t this loving caring, benevolent nation. If it was it wouldn’t have the riches it has. It made those from trade, external trade.

    • 0 avatar
      Ce he sin

      “But if NAFTA cannot be renegotiated to favor the US”
      Yes, that’s rather the problem with the US isn’t it? Everything must be in their favour. That’s one reason they won’t enter negotiations with the EU for a deal – they want to be the dominant partner at all times.

    • 0 avatar
      dont.fit.in.cars

      The exemption is if they use steel manufactured in North America. They’ll be withdrawal if Mexico and Canada use Chinese steel.

      https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/03/08/potus-trump-frames-stunning-win-on-steel-and-aluminum-tariffs-announcement-coming-330pm-today/

  • avatar
    carguy

    So this is how conservatism dies?

  • avatar
    whitworth

    Trump doing what every Democrat has promised doing for the last 50+ years and what won him the Rust Belt (and Presidency).

    I’m sure from here on out any Democrat that promises protectionist policies to the union members that fund them will of course be blasted by the same people that are flipping out over Donald Trump trying to protect American workers from globalism.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      No doubt in my mind, Trump is a union guy, all the way.

      But if it Makes America Great Again, who cares?

      Anything has to be better that the epic failure of the last guy in office.

      • 0 avatar
        Peter Gazis

        The non-union foreign automakers benefited greatly from the Trump tax cut. Didn’t work out as well for the Unionized U.S. automakers.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Drumph isn’t a union guy nor is he a populist. He is running the USA like a bad reality TV program and the target audience for his confidence game is probably the same as The Jerry Springer Show.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          And Trump is getting things done!

          Refreshing.

          We better enjoy these fleeting moments because all too soon it will be over.

          Good night.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            He’s getting things done isn’t the same as improving things. It’s clear he’s helping himself and his family much more than anything or anyone else.

            He’s no populist. A populist wouldn’t stack a cabinet with the same big bank retreads we’ve seen from other presidents.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Ours is a self-righting system of governing. If Trump is not working for the majority who vote, they’ll vote him out of office.

            It’s happened before with Bush 1, Carter.

            But people working for nothing, like Trump and his cabinet, that’s a new approach.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Nothing new under the sun, this nation has been a bad reality show since [insert year].

          Prediction: NK is scripted and has been since 2011 or earlier. The Switzerland raised KJU comes in and literally whacks nearly everyone from the previous regime, and will now be credited with leading NK out of the shadows. Trump will be credited with “bringing down the DMZ” through détente. Better than HBO.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @28-Cars-Later – Virtually every example I can think of in the realm of foreign intervention carried out in the name of the US Empire has turned bad especially for the middle and lower classes.
            The comb-over-in-chief’s protectionist dog and pony show is going to hurt the USA in the interim and long term. It plays well to his base since they already believe foreigners are out to get them. The trade wars and further isolation the USA will experience will be blamed on those foreigners and the cycle continues until someone feels their “big button” will cancel out “our” “big button”.

            As far as North Korea goes, yes, I do believe that will go to war. Nothing like a war to improve one’s ratings.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Lou,
            A real “Ratings War”?

    • 0 avatar
      Astigmatism

      Making the raw materials that manufacturers around the country need to make their products more expensive is what won him the Rust Belt?

  • avatar
    Whatnext

    US employment in the steel industry peaked in 1953. Who does Trump blame for the decline then?

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    Well as I stated all the US needs to do is follow the lead of it’s external customer requirements, and it ain’t so-so quality fullsize pickups and pickup truck station wagons.

    Here’s an interesting story on how to choose the wrong product, true story.

    The super size me Americans have actually listened to their global customer requirements, yes! The company is Boeing, the best company in the World, leaves Tesla looking like a sham.

    Anyway, EADS who own Airbus decided to build the biggest, bestest, supersize me airliner, the A-380.

    It is failing (like US vehicle manufacture, steel, etc).

    Why?

    Well Airbus in their wisdom thought the world “wants” this size aircraft, it can move nearly double the people as a Boeing 777. Imagine, the airlines will jump at this.

    But, Airbus didn’t look closely at what infrastrure was globally available to use this thing. It is limited to say the least. From, customs, to baggage handling, ground handling, loading passengers, the A-380 was not the best and most efficient airliner.

    It’s the HD pickup of the aircraft world. Fantastic aircraft, but the infrastructure globally is not readily available to make it function efficiently.

    Boeing on the other hand, to their credit went out and physically measured the flightlines of all major and not so major airport globally and decided to build an aircraft all can use with no changes to existing infrastructure.

    And decided to build a much smaller aircraft, the Camry of the aircraft world.

    Boeing made the jet efficient, yes fuel efficient, comfortable and small.

    EADS/Airbus is now deciding to shelve the A-380, which seems inevitable.

    So, the US can design, develop products for the global market, except in auto manufacturing. The reason is the existing regulations, tariffs protecting the market are so entrenched in everything from vehicle design, size, marketing, etc that the US is unable to achieve. If this is the case, goodbye to US export vehicles.

    Oh, China has that much influence just with aircraft Boeing is determining whether to change the shape of the 797 to suit Asian markets. They want to tote an additional 10 tonnes of load in the hold. This means the “oval” shaped fuselage of the existing 797 design might become egg shaped, all because of the Chinese.

    Boeing is listening to the customer. Why not Ford and GM?

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      Oh, the great aircraft from Boeing is the 787 Dreamliner. A great engineering achievement from the US that is highly exportable.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        @BAFO – They’re not even designed for anywhere except North America.

        Except they’re found in every corner of the world, at terrific expense/prices usually.

        Without a doubt, US trucks/SUVs, especially the fullsize Pickup variety are the “Dreamliners” of the automotive Grey Market world.

        No need to custom tailor them for any global market, not even China, the biggest takers of Ford Raptors, grey market or official import.

        There’s not a bigger group, type or specific model of grey market cars that even come close.

        Somebody must be doing something right, along with millions up on millions of “would be” buyers too low on cash, around the globe that would love a chance to own one.

        Yes they have their share of haters, in the US, OZ and I’m sure around the world.

        But sit back and imagine their success/sales if sold officially through dealer networks throughout the Globe, but at prices relative to USA (transactional) prices and of course with taxes, fuel and other fees similar to US costs of ownership?

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          Dim one, yes they are found around the world, so are Unimogs. Except there isn’t a “globally” viable market for the Germans with Unimogs to support a whole industry.

          You see Dim One, we are talking about industry and nation building. Two or three vehicles in Siberia isn’t going to keep Detroit afloat.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            Why the heck are bringing up Unimogs? Show me another Grey Market car that comes close US “trucks”/SUVs/Pickups.

            This isn’t about who can support what. This is about pent up demand, desirability and those elated buyers around the globe, whom US/trucks/SUVs/Pickups were never meant for, willing to go the distance, do what ever it takes and pay any amount to own one.

            There’s nothing fundamentally different about global consumers, vs US buyers/owners, just bureaucracies and other hurdles/expenses to overcome.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Dimmest of all! WTF?

            The discussion is about trade and the US’es ability to trade. Since this is an automotive site (I think) we discuss motor vehicles.

            HDs are as relevant as Unimogs here.

            The US doesn’t have an adequate model for an export vehicle market as all else globally.

            This is very apparent or many in the US wouldn’t be wondering why the world isn’t buying F-150s.

            The US model or system that encourages it’s automotive production doesn’t suit global requirments, to the point it even has a different system of standards.

            How the fnck do you expect to create a larger export market if you can’t produce what the customer wants?

            How fncking hard is it?

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            “This is very apparent or many in the US wouldn’t be wondering why the world isn’t buying F-150s.”

            The world cannot afford to buy F-150s because of the tariffs slapped on them.

            Hell, many in the US who want one cannot afford to buy F-150s because of the price. That’s why they buy Silverado and RAM or Titan.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Oh highdesertcat, again what nonsense.

            The world doesn’t have the infrastructure to operate them.

            Again, how fncking hard is it. If the US WANTS to create an export market then build what the customer wants.

            This isn’t about what the US can afford or not afford, it’s about what the global community finds as an attractive enough product to invest in.

            You talk about how great you are as a businessman, then display some of that business acumen.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            “You talk about how great you are as a businessman,”

            You got me confused with someone else.

            Pickup trucks are very much in demand in much of Europe, but they can’t afford to buy them new because of the tariff and high VAT.

            During my last extended visit to Germany I did notice quite a few American pickup trucks operated by Germans which were purchased by these locals from GIs returning stateside.

            And BTW, have you ever looked into how many F-150s and Tundra pickup trucks are used around the oil fields of Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Kuwait?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “The world cannot afford to buy F-150s because of the tariffs slapped on them.”

            Do any of you Drumph fans search for the truth or just parrot out of context or erroneous snippets that fit your beliefs?

            I’d say that USA government PsyOps have been the most effective on their own populace.

            “The standard tariff for importing cars to the U.S. is 2.5 percent of their value. For pickup trucks and commercial vans, the tariff is a whopping 25 percent. Individual European countries don’t charge import duties, but the European Union charges a flat rate of 10 percent on imported automobiles.”

            “Here is what you can expect to pay in import duties, depending on the type of vehicle you’ve bought:

            “22% for trucks (including pickups, when the cargo area is more than 50% of the length of the wheelbase)
            10% for passenger cars (this includes pickup trucks, when the cargo area is less than 50% of the length of the wheelbase)
            8% for motorcycles with an engine capacity to 250cc
            6% for motorcycles with a engine capacity exceeding 250cc”

            If one looks at the Ford F150 and does the math, a regular cab pickup would be taxed at 22% but a crew cab with 5.5 or 6.5 box would be taxed at 10%.

            The USA has stiffer taxes on import pickups than does the EU but the EU has stiffer import taxes on cars.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Lou, they charge a Value Added Tax on all vehicles in Germany, Holland, and Portugal. I checked when I was there visiting relatives.

            That’s why GI’s can buy Euro vehicles taxfree at a substantial lower cost, even today.

            Locals have to pay a steep import tax when they buy a vehicle from a GI returning stateside.

            But that tax is not nearly as high as on a new vehicle.

            You’d be surprised what a Grand Cherokee retails for overseas compared to stateside.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            highdesertcat,
            Again, a VAT or GST or even in the US which levies State Taxes are across ALL products, so they don’t discriminate against local or imported products.

            The VAT doesn’t affect imports vs local manufactured products.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @BAFO – Even if the “US model or system” only built crappy little cars with dirty little diesels with fake emissions you’d still call it “an inadequate model”.

            Fiats, Renaults, Citroens, etc, might seem Rocket Science to you but…

            But only a halfwit sit around wondering why sales are so slow around the world for grey market only, global F-150 deliveries.

            Zero doubt F-150s found around the globe overcame kilometers of red tape, and obviously at a tremendous cost over and above their original US selling prices.

            Don’t fool yourself, global buyers want way more than what’s currently available to them, just because they end up buying junky little, new cars basically forced upon them.

            They can thank corrupt bureaucrats NOT looking out for their best interests.

            To start “breaking down the walls”, especially if tremendously high tariffs/barrier remain, common sense would tell you NOT to start with what’s redundant (in class or segment) to what’s already there, even when importing way more reliable cars for the same cash.

            US midsize+ BOF SUVs come to mind.

            You saw your OZ countrymen and women p!ss themselves to pre-order (legit import/warranty) Mustangs with dangerous 2-Star (local) crash ratings.

            Too many know exactly WTF they’re missing.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @highdesertcat – VAT or “value added tax” is a consumption tax that applies to imported products as well as domestic products. In Canada is is called the “GST” or “Goods and Service Tax”.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Lou, it adds a tremendous cost to the object sold, often putting it out of the range of buyers.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            highdesertcat,
            To put it bluntly.

            The US is NOT competitive in vehicle manufacturing.

            If the world as you alluded “does what America does” the world will produce fullsize pickups and SUVs that are more competitive.

            They wouldn’t buy many US pickups. We sort of are doing that now with midsizers, producing them at a cheaper price than the US.

            If the US can’t produce competitive small vehicles for export, it can’t produce large pickups for export.

            A niche market is best it can hope for.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            “The US is NOT competitive in vehicle manufacturing.”

            My point it that the US does not have to be competitive. All the US needs to do is manufacture these “uniquely-American” vehicles for American consumption.

            It’s not like America is starved for vehicle sales. And many foreign companies came to America to set up plants so that they could get a slice of that pie.

            If people outside of America want to buy these non-competitive uniquely-American vehicles, they’ll just have to pay the price.

            And in places like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait they do. Even some places in Europe.

            Some time ago a truck that had belonged to an American plumber showed up overseas with his logo still on the doors.

            Competitive or not, there exist a market for those willing to pay the price.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @HighDesertCat – You heard the man, “Not competitive!”, “Niche market at best!”, etc.

            While factually true (currently), that’s where it begins and ends for him.

            Since American/Detroit autos/trucks won’t sell (good) outside the US, NA, they MUST BE “the wrong products”.

            BAFO simply refuses to hear anything else beyond that from anyone, like a child almost.

            He believed OZ (midsize) Utes had at around “2X the payload” of US midsize pickups, which is technically true, and even though they’re fundamentally “the same trucks”, he absolutely refused to acknowledge that, repeating his same spiel endlessly in a loop and totally oblivious, just like he’s doing now.

            “Troll” is the knee-jerk reaction, but it’s more likely a form of autism.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            DenverMike, I learned a long time ago that different people interpret the same facts differently.

            So I give others a lot of leeway in their beliefs even tough I may not agree with them.

            But when it comes to putting my money where my mouth is, the only interpretation that matters is mine.

            As for others, I don’t give a schit what they choose to believe because I’m only concerned with living my own life.

            And the mistakes we each make are all our own.

  • avatar
    conundrum

    Someone may have pointed out that the US actually exports more steel to Canada than vice-versa.

    China is actually 13th on the list of steel exporters to the US according to US reports I read. But hey, since when did logic mean anything in politics when tub-thumping rules the day?

  • avatar
    tylanner

    R-E-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E

    Shrink the world so I can understand it. The last gasp of industrialism.

  • avatar
    ToddAtlasF1

    I love that all the Trump-detractors find themselves in agreement with Big Al. Must make one feel pretty smug.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Like a circle jerk.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        highdesertcat,
        I offer the Truth, as much based on fact and data as I can.

        You offer much input, but much of that input is flawed and when you are called out talking horsesh!t you get upset.

        Why don’t you research prior to engaging?

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Naw man, I don’t get upset. I know you are a BS artist and others have pointed out how wrong you are.

          But I comment from my own experience and what I have found out to be true in my real life.

          And I don’t take you seriously. You are a fount of disinformation and these blogs are full of people like you.

          Besides, since my BIL took me to the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem when we were there I have mellowed out. Don’t take anything seriously.

          That trip was such a profound experience, standing there among all that history reaching into antiquity that it made me realize how small and insignificant we humans are.

          When I post it is based in fact and what I know to be true. I have never lied when commenting. Everything I write is the truth as I know it to be from experience.

          I don’t comment on things I know nothing about. And experiences vary.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      Todd,
      Maybe you should see what is going on outside of those dastardly Canuckians and those degenerate Mexicans regarding the US.

      The US is quickly losing its position of dominance and influence with Trump at the helm. This ain’t good and I don’t like it, as I want to see a strong US.

      A strong US isn’t built on guns, warships and bombers. What made America great is the people and it’s ability to trade fairly.

      He who controls trade controls the world, the US is quickly losing this position and the recent tantrums and bullying tactics out of the US illustrates the US is losing it’s ability to apply logical solutions to the challenges that confronts it.

      This is a bad sign.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Big Al from Oz – “He who controls trade controls the world”

        TPP was designed to shift up to 40% of Pacific Rim trade/wealth towards the USA. Only a fool would turn their back on that pact.

        Since WWII the USA has waged a war on anything remotely resembling socialism and communism to keep the wealth in the hands of the few. Abroad they have used overt, covert and clandestine operations to meet their goals. Domestically they have done the same without direct military intervention.
        We now have a disenfranchised lower and middle class who still thinks along those lines but with the fall of the USSR, the replacement villains have been foreigners.

        Fanning the flames of xenophobia keeps the masses from realizing the real reason that they have no present or future. All they have to do is look at their state and federal capitals and the top 5%.

        Russia got their money’s worth out of #45. The USA is even more divided than before and is losing its influence globally at an even faster rate with the comb-over in chief at the rudderless helm.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      And I love that all the Trump cheerleaders do nothing but trash Trump detractors.

      And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what’s become of modern conservatism. Pour one out.

      • 0 avatar
        30-mile fetch

        The circle of political toxicity continues. When your guy is in office, he’s untouchable and the standards by which you judged his predecessor evaporate.

        I live in a state of religious conservative moralizers who have for decades excoriated Democrats on traditional moral grounds and they are on their knees for Donald J. Trump, Grabber of P—, serial adulterer, racist vulgarian. Because they can get their Supreme Court vacancies filled and their federal monuments shrunk for energy extraction, the EPA gutted and the State Department eviscerated into ineffectiveness, and they can now grub about even more freely for money money money while preaching of the eternities.

        100 days of Trump playing golf in the first year? No big deal. We never criticized Obama for that. Corrupt and/or unqualified cabinet and agency appointees? Nepotism? Profiting rapaciously from your position in the highest public office in the land? Nope, only Democratic administrations do that. I’ve been listening to the BBC more in the car lately because I’m so tired of national and local news here.

        • 0 avatar
          ToddAtlasF1

          He’s a racist vulgarian who was celebrated prior to derailing the globalist train for promoting diversity and serving minority communities by many of the same race baiters whose beat you’re dancing to now. Your problem is you believe what you’re being brainwashed to believe even when the truth is the provable opposite. Watch Rachel Madcow ranting about how important it is to not seek a diplomatic solution to the threat of North Korea and then tell me you haven’t surrendered your senses for your ideology.

  • avatar
    TW5

    News broke yesterday that Kobe Steel has been falsifying records for over 5 decades. Import tariffs on steel and aluminum are as much a matter of national security as they are a matter of international trade.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      After 5 decades, it’s not news. It means it was tolerated and condoned by all involved.

      But if this upcoming parlez with North Korea before May works out, maybe they can become our most favored trading partner.

      • 0 avatar
        JD-Shifty

        Highdesertcat, you seem to parrot a LOT of FOX news.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          JD-Shifty, I don’t watch anything Fox.

          I hate how the talking heads of all things Fox interrupt their guests and rarely allow their guests to express a train of thought, after asking them a question.

          The conclusions and comments I make here are purely my own, based on how events have affected me and mine.

          I’m not Republican and neither am I a ‘crat. I have equal disdain for both political parties.

          I do have three TVs in three different rooms that are ON when I’m awake and tuned to three different Satellite stations, usually Bloomberg, CNBC and another channel.

          One of those three TVs is mounted directly overhead of my Desktop in my “office”. But NEVER tuned to Fox – I lost patience with their hosts many, many years ago.

          • 0 avatar

            If I had a dollar for every time someone substituted “You watch Fox News” for actual debate, I could probably afford to get cable.

            My main beef with the mainstream media is not so much that they are biased (though they are), it’s that they’re inept. Most of what we consume as “news” is secondary or tertiary at best. Few journalists bother to check original sources or quote in context and then other journalists repeat it.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Ronnie, I normally get my first-hand news online at the sites from UPI, Reuters and APNews. To round out original reporting I like online sites like WSJ and USAToday.

            Good stuff, and usually they don’t have to give the by-line credit to another publisher, the way that third-hand news outlets do.

            Media bias and political slant is not new. During the last administration the progressive and liberal broadcasters were accused of carrying water for that administration.

            Now the roles have been reversed and the conservative Fox gets insults hurled at them because the Republicans are in power.

            Not united, just in power.

            Maybe what really torques the jaws of Trump detractors is that this guy hits back, where the previous administrations acted like ducks, letting insults and negative-press roll of their backs.

            .

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      TW5,
      That’s been around for a number of weeks now. That is not a “national” conspiracy to denigrate the US as Kobe Steel supplies globally.

      • 0 avatar
        TW5

        Conspiracy is not required to pursue national security. Kobe Steel was just a wake up call. We must have sufficient capacity to supply all of our military needs and much of our critical consumer needs in the unfortunate event we must build another arsenal of democracy. Right now, Chinese production is about 600% more than US capacity.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    To prove my point regarding differing vehicle standards in the US with the rest of the world is illustrated below.

    Ford has designed a great export vehicle in the Mustang ……. but it’s unsafe.

    How many sales will Ford lose for the Mustang in Australia. Australia I might add sells more Mustangs than the EU with 1/30 the population.

    https://www.techly.com.au/2016/03/21/australian-police-reject-new-ford-mustang-because-its-not-good-enough/

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      wrong link and article!

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/mustang-back-off-the-police-radar-after-two-star-ancap-51470

      Ford addressed the problem and it now is 3 Star safety rated. A long way off of five for the police to purchase.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        Ford’s loss is FCA’s gain because it looks like the NSW police ended up using the 300.

        motoring.com.au/chrysler-300-srt-police-car-deal-done-110173/

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          ajla,
          Yes to a degree, BMW won out in the end, with believe it or not a diesel pursuit vehicle!

          That even stumped me.

          http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/victoria-police-to-get-bmw-highway-patrol-cars-with-other-states-poised-to-follow/news-story/dc4f207a73875705673aea4c3483a778

          I think the 300 were only bought as an interim vehicle for the NSW police. Each State and Territory selects it’s own vehicles.

          • 0 avatar
            Tstag

            Why on earth does Trump want to pick a fight with the EU on steel? The EUs own steel industry has suffered from Chinese dumping but the difference is that in the EU our steel industry has received heavy investment of the years (from the private sector) and is as competitive as it can be. The US steel industry is not. Picking a fight with EU steel makers just because they put the investment in is not on. So of course the EU will fight back hard. It’s a mad policy!

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            TW5,
            Because Australia is buying 5 Series as Highway Patrol vehicles.

            Like the answer;)

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Tstag, sorry.

  • avatar
    Spike_in_Brisbane

    International trade is complex and simplistic actions can have unexpected consequences. Here’s one example:
    Australia only has one company that exports steel to the USA ~ Bluescope Steel. It sends sheets or rolls to its subsidiary in the US who converts it to their proprietary product, Colorbond, a roofing material. It operates in 12 US states and employs 3,000 people. Guess whose jobs are going to be impacted by a new tariff?

  • avatar
    Fordson

    OK, so we can have a trade agreement like NAFTA, in which certain nations have agreements with us that are beneficial to those signatories, or we can have tariffs, which engender exclusion and hostility, and then carve out exceptions for…the other North American nations, Canada and Mexico, which then creates bad feelings among all the other nations…but accomplishes much the same thing as the trade agreement did, which our sociopath/retard “president” has been trashing.

    So guess which route the sociopath/retard takes – ?

  • avatar
    Mud

    An article truly worthy of moveon.org

  • avatar

    There’s a structural trade IMbalance between U.S. and the EU of approx. $ 150 billion each year. https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0003.html

    I’d say that if this is caused by treating imported goods differently, the U.S. has every right to even the balance, without even appealing to national security interests. If the trade imbalance is caused by the simple fact that some goods from the EU are perceived as superior by the American consumer (German cars for instance), then U.S. companies do need to become more competitive.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      So, did you know Australia import twice as much from the US than the US imports from us?

      So, what tariffs should we place on those terrible Americans?

  • avatar
    vehic1

    highdesertcat: re: “Obama’s epic fail” – remember, he caused the 2008 Great Recession (a year before he was President) and (as the NRA warned us) repealed the 2nd Amendment! But fear not – trump won’t let the eco-meanies pry the keys to your pollution-emitting, cancer-causing vehicle out of your cold, dead hands. “Enjoy it while you can” – the midterms are coming, a referendum on trumpy.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      vehic1, exactly right. The midterms are coming and the outcome may affect the balance of power in the House and Senate, but not who’s in the White House.

      My philosophy is to enjoy these great times while we can because before long the ‘crats will be back in power and dragging America down the schithole again. It’s cyclical.

      I didn’t vote for Trump but I sure like what he has done so far. The accomplishments are epic, but fleeting.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        The accomplishments are fleetingly epic.

        Fixed it for you!

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Thank you.

          I hope that the Big Guy will enjoy continued success for the duration.

          For many American citizens their world has changed for the better.

          But I can understand that for some other far-left liberal American citizens, and also especially illegal aliens, their world has turned into a living nightmare.

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