By on February 22, 2018

hitler benz

On Wednesday, Daimler’s German workers union publicly expressed concerns that neo-Nazis are trying to organize within the automaker’s ranks. While it did not specify which political groups were involved, it named several individuals from the Untertürkheim Mercedes-Benz plant in southern Germany and described the overall situation as “not acceptable.”

The works council believes Nazis are currently using Zentrum Automobil, an alternative labor union formed in 2009, as a base of operations to infiltrate the factory and placed several of its members on its board. “The Untertürkheim plant now appears in the media as a reservoir for neo-Nazis and a center of right-wing extremist activities,” explained members opposing the supposed infiltration.

That’s not great publicity for a German automaker with a rich history dating back through the Second World War. However, if the last year has taught us anything, it’s that the term “Nazi” currently gets thrown around more than a frisbee at a picnic. Are the claims valid? 

Zentrum Automobil’s website certainly doesn’t express anything that might indicate a racial bent. Instead, it positions itself as an alternative to Germany’s established unions — which it claims are in close cooperation with manufacturers and don’t have the backs of those they purport to protect. It suggests “big unions (like IG Metall) are so closely linked to the political elite” that they have no solution to the problems associated with globalization, and are part of the overall problem facing today’s workers. This could be a case of more-powerful labor unions feeling threatened by an upstart and crying “Nazi” in the hopes of destroying it before it gains any more momentum.

However, for the past few months German media has suggested Zentrum has political ties to “extremist movements.” Most notable among them is the Alternative for Germany (AfD), which recently surpassed the Social Democrats (SPD) to become the country’s second strongest political party, according to polling from earlier this week. The AfD grew in popularity after mass immigration of young men resulted in a 10.4-percent increase in violent crimes between 2015 and 2016. The party is best known for its “controversially” harsh stance against Islam and immigration.

Simultaneously, Handelsblatt reported at least four of the Untertürkheim works council members from Zentrum Automobil have attended AfD and Pegida rallies and held previous membership in Wiking-Jugend (Viking Youth) and Kreuzritter für Deutschland (Crusader for Germany) neo-Nazi groups. Both organizations were outlawed as unconstitutional by the German government in 1994.

“The right-wing activities and the entanglements in neo-Nazi actions and organizations and the related public coverage are causing substantial damage to labor representation and through this are threatening our jobs,” the works council said in an official statement.

Staff at Daimler, Volkswagen, and other manufacturers are scheduled to elect new labor representatives over the next three months, and management and unions are keen to quench any extremist activity. Daimler announced its opposition to any “far right activity” within its workforce and would monitor developments closely. “We stand by the liberal, democratic basic order and expect all employees to live tolerance in their daily work and to act together with respect, openness, faith and fairness,” the automaker said.

[Image: National Archives]

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91 Comments on “Daimler’s Works Council Claims Company Is Being ‘Infiltrated by Nazis’...”


  • avatar
    FreedMike

    I’ll add this: in Germany, being a Nazi, or espousing Nazi-esque beliefs, is literally illegal.

    • 0 avatar
      jpolicke

      It is not, however, yet illegal to hold an opinion counter to the left wing, open borders, multi-culti ideology of Merkel etc. Shouting “Nazi!” is an effective way to shut the conversation down, like accusing people in the USA of being racist.

      The point is that a labor union should be about looking after the welfare of your dues paying members as to pay, benefits, and working conditions. If you insist on rolling a comprehensive political agenda into the terms of membership don’t be surprised if dissenters look for an organization that accords with their views. The works council should stick to their mission and not try to become a political party.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Nazis are left wing – national socialists.

        • 0 avatar
          Matt Foley

          Politics is like Pac-Man: if you go off the far right side of the map, you emerge on the far left, and vice versa.

          This is why Hitler and Stalin were politically opposites, but their craziness had the exact same effect on millions of innocent people.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Matt Foley,

            I don’t think you’re correct. Hitler and Stalin were as close politically as it gets. The regimes they created were also very similar. Main difference being, national ideology vs communist ideology. They both were “communal” regimes. The only problem between them was that Hitler hated Jews and considered Jews, communists and bolsheviks all one and the same. And he was kind of correct on this one.
            As for innocent people… there are always dead innocent people.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Negative, slavuta…there was a HUGE difference between Nazism and Marxism/Leninism, and it was this: private enterprise and wealth was allowed (indeed, it was encouraged) in Nazi Germany, and it wasn’t in the Soviet Union.

            Two very different kinds of authoritarianism.

          • 0 avatar
            ttacgreg

            You sir/maam, can be fooled by a name.
            The last speech given in the Bundestag in 1932 was in opposition to the Nazi party. It was given by Clara Zetkin, a German women’s rights and a communist. Plenty on the ‘net about her.
            Corporations in Nazi German continued as the entities they were and are. Had the Nazis been genuine socialists/communists, those corporations would have been nationalized.
            Names for political organizations are often self contradictory propaganda terms.

          • 0 avatar
            ttacgreg

            I see it your way as well. You can get to an ossified society where all the power and the wealth is in the hands of the 0.001%, and the rest are powerless and destitute (essentially tyranny) by going too far to the Left or the Right. The end result is indistinguishable. The USA, in my opinion is taking the Right wing path in that direction.

            http://www.lcurve.org/images/LCurveFlier2003.pdf

        • 0 avatar
          rblue

          Nazis were extreme right-wing. I know it can get confusing, and it isn’t intended to be a slight to your political views.

          • 0 avatar
            Sub-600

            Fascism is a left-wing construct.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            That’s only true if you want to pin “the left” with fascism. If that’s the case, then you need to try harder.

            True authoritarianism exists on a plane so far outside our political left-right spectrum that it is neither left nor right wing, as we understand them. It’s a whole different ball game.

          • 0 avatar
            Sub-600

            The closest thing to fascism in the U.S. today is Antifa, a leftist concern. They call conservatives Nazis, lol. The real irony is that liberals won’t tolerate any opinion save their own and yet they call themselves…wait for it…”woke”. My God, it’s too pathetic to believe.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Antifa is a bunch of anarchistic, rock-throwing loons, and rock-throwing anarchy is the polar opposite of fascism.

            I don’t think we have a true equivalent to real fascism in this country. Fascism means one-man rule, and as dysfunctional as our system is, we’re nowhere near that.

            People “on the left” who think Trump is fascist and people “on the right” who think liberals are fascist (or communist, for that matter) have one thing in common: they all need to crack a history book, stat.

          • 0 avatar
            Sub-600

            “…rock-throwing anarchy is the polar opposite of fascism”. Kristallnacht ring a bell?

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus

            “True authoritarianism exists on a plane so far outside our political left-right spectrum that it is neither left nor right wing, as we understand them. It’s a whole different ball game.”

            Mike, I think we might agree on something political-related! Time to sell ice scrapers in hell? LOL

            You’re a good guy and I want you to know, even if we disagree now and then, I do consider you a friend. :)

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Kristallnacht was NOT about anarchy – it was about control. It was government sanctioned.

            And if you’re trying to somehow equate a bunch of loons with Kristallnacht…there’s no comparison. Take it from a guy whose family was on the receiving end of it.

            Antifa is bad. It’s not THAT bad.

          • 0 avatar
            APaGttH

            The concept that Nazism is a left-wing construct was formulated by Holocaust deniers in the 1970s.

            Excellent responses have been provided above. The Nazi party encouraged private wealth and the accumulation and growth of individual wealth. Stalin literally made it illegal.

            Nazis and Communists fought in the streets in Germany in running battles from 1918 to 1933. The first people the Nazis rounded up were Communists and Socialists. They didn’t start moving Jews to the concentration camps in earnest until 1942.

            There were other major difference, but if you are really trying to argue Nazism and Communism are the same things, you’re just spreading anti-Holocaust propaganda.

            The argument that National Socialists means they are socialists, is like arguing the Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea is a Democracy because they have Democratic in the name.

        • 0 avatar
          RHD

          No, calling their party “socialist” was an intentional misnomer. There is nothing sensible, open-minded or liberal about Nazis.

          • 0 avatar
            stingray65

            The Nazis were socialists pure and simple.

            Nothing liberal about Nazis? How do you explain Nazi support for liberal concepts such as socialized medicine, environmentalism, or eugenics.

            The Nazis also controlled the economy through strict wage and price controls, and had huge public works for the glory and use of the German people including the autobahn, huge state run resorts, and the “people’s car: the VW.

            The Nazis also had total control over the press and radio – perhaps you have heard about a guy names Goebbels?

            Were the Nazis racist? Did the Nazis shut down independent trade unions and rival parties? Yes to both questions, but so did Stalin.

            Don’t believe me – here are a few sources to read:
            https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/02/nazis-still-socialists-jonah-goldberg/

            https://captaincapitalism.blogspot.no/2015/03/were-nazis-national-socialists-socialist.html

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            stingray65,

            Exactly! Hitler’s and Stalin’s regimes were like twin brothers. They had technical differences, sort of like square headlight vs round. But in the end both used prisoners for free labor and often with goal to work them to death. Both organized youth into movements, both were building “great projects” just to show off. Yea, there was huge economical difference in which Germany was a controlled capitalism while USSR had planned nationalized economy. But the regimes themselves were extremely similar.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Ahhh…so “Nazism was based on liberal concepts” because it included things like socialized medicine, which liberals like.

            So, to sum up this “line of reasoning”: when Nazis adopted any facet of a contemporary American ideology, that ideology gets tagged as being Nazi-esque.

            Therefore, by this logic, Nazism was also “based on conservative concepts” because it included things that conservatives are into – like law and order, heavy-duty nationalism, massive military spending, and an interventionist foreign policy, and so on.

            The truth of the matter is either approach is nonsense.

            Nazism bears zero resemblance to contemporary liberalism or conservatism in the United States. Period. Anyone who tries to imply otherwise – and that includes some so-called “liberals” – is either trolling, or blathering.

          • 0 avatar
            Sub-600

            Interventionist foreign policy isn’t strictly a conservative concept. JFK and LBJ ring a bell? In fact, Eisenhower, a republican, strongly admonished JFK to forget about Vietnam when they met at Camp David.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            I’d call ’em demi-Nazis, then. :)

            But you get my point – overt militarism is much more of a “conservative thing.” And there’s not really much wrong with that, as long as the militarism is done responsibly. But this illustrates the silliness of trying to tie a modern political ideology with Nazism – there just isn’t any damn comparison in the end.

            (On Kennedy: there is strong evidence that he was going to follow Ike’s advice, as he was informed that all the glowing reports on how we well we were doing in Vietnam were complete BS. Unfortunately, he learned about this a few days before was assassinated. I think it’s likely he wouldn’t have escalated the war. And LBJ, while great at pushing laws through Congress, was such a foreign policy novice that he allowed himself to be rolled by the idiots who were telling Kennedy that things in Vietnam were great.)

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Stingray,
            Supporting public health does not constitute socialism.

            I really get a chuckle reading comments on these sites on how a what some Americans view socialism is. The reality I think the use of “socialism” by Americans is more derogatory than accurate. Its commonly used by those sitting further right.

            I’m an economic liberal, which pits me further right than many of these right wing “socialist” wanting socialist protectionist measure to defend the percieved inability of US competiveness.

            But, public schools, health and other infrastructure used by ALL and supported by ALL is not socialism.

            The chicken tax, technical barriers, subsidised corn, EVs and on and on supporting fringe voters for short term political is moving closer to socialism than public health.

          • 0 avatar
            PrincipalDan

            So many times I’m reminded that this country was founded by groups of people that their respective countries were sick of having around. (Yes I include my ancestors in this category)

            Keep this in mind and many things will make sense.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      FreedMike,

      you’re talking of differences how economies where ran. One – controlled capitalism and another – planned nationalized economy. But as regimes go, they had all the same elements. both based on socialist ideology, where “volk” is more than “ich”.
      when in US CEOs were told that “you don’t make cars anymore – make planes”, some eyebrows were raised – since when government tell private enterprise what to do? In Nazi Germany that was norm. Country first. verstehen!

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Slavuta:

        First and foremost, fascism and communism ARE economic theories, and each considers the other a mortal enemy. The difference is that the former allows capitalism and accumulation of wealth, and the latter does not (in reality, of course, the ruling class in communist regimes LIVE like they’re rich, but in the end, they don’t have actual monetary wealth).

        If you think about it, the fact that these two ideologies are so opposed to each other makes sense – the ruling class in any fascist or communist society is directly threatened by the opposing ideology. Oligarchs, aristocrats and wealthy people in fascist countries have everything to lose if communism takes over, and the apparatchiks in communist countries have everything to lose if capitalistic economic theory becomes a reality.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Check this out: China. Governed by communist party, circa 1980 soviet-style, it is also capitalist economy.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            China is communist in name only, and has been for a long time. I’d say it actually resembles Nazi Germany economically (a centrally controlled capitalist system).

            Then again, their official name is “Peoples’ Republic of China,” and last I checked, it’s a long way from being a republic.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            slavuta,
            Its not just similarities between political systems, it’s also culture, ie, benevolence.

            It not that simple. We in the West will tolerate a benevolent dictator, the person still a dictator.

          • 0 avatar
            ttacgreg

            There you go fooled by a name again. :)

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          so, Mike, now you seem support my point. You said: “it actually resembles Nazi Germany economically”. so, Stalin’s regime resembled Nazi Germany in nearly everything else but economically.
          You said: “a centrally controlled capitalist system”
          so, in USSR it was also centrally controlled, only all profits went into government bank instead of part of them going into private one. This is the small difference I am talking about. There are much more similarities.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            I said China (not the USSR) probably resembles Nazi Germany economically. But then again, China gave up being a communist nation a LONG time ago.

            In fact, there hasn’t been an authentically communistic country – as Marx would have envisioned it – in human history. The USSR and Red China were basically dictatorships masquerading as communist countries. As you say, the consequences of that dictatorship were little different than than what you saw in Nazi Germany – people by the tens of millions suffered. China may have been even worse, but we’ll never know for sure.

            If you want to see what actual Marxism would really look like, watch “Star Trek.” Of course, in science fiction, technology has solved all of mankind’s needs, and you can magically make food appear out of the walls. A utopian ideology needs utopian technology, you know?

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            slavuta,
            The US has what is termed a mixed economy. This is due to free market and government business.

            I think there are less than 10 free market countries in the world. The US currently sits at around 20th freest economy.

            So, does this make the US socialist or capitalist?

            You will never have any economy/country without some form of goevernment influence.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          FreedMike,
          The problem isn’t so much the political systems as the culture of the institutions supporting political systems. This is where corruption arises.

          I’m a free market person who believes there are certain repsonsibilities that governments have.

          Governments are not to support business physically, ie subsidies, handouts, protection. This does not add value to any country. The only countries this works with are dominant players, at the expense of all else around.

          Governments are their to support the consumer, the people, not the 1% or the Communist elite, or Socialist elite, politburo, etc.

          But, sadly this has been the case throughout history.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Big Al,

            you just have failed your naturalization test

            https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/see-all-section-items-title/Civics%20Questions%20and%20Answers%20for%20the%20Naturalization%20Test/55250?destination=node/41139

          • 0 avatar
            ttacgreg

            I would add this. Name any nation with a large prosperous middle class that does not have a large government and substantial taxes.

        • 0 avatar
          stingray65

          Mike – First of all, this article was about Germany and not the US, so your moving the discussion of Nazi vs Commie to the current US political situation is certainly not where I was going with the conversation.

          If we can agree that the political left = a desire for progressively bigger government (i.e. the takeover of medical care, nationalizing industry, price and wage controls, heavy regulations and taxes, etc.), then the German Nazis were far left, just not as far left as the USSR.

          If we can agree that the political right = small government, then there is no way the Nazis can be considered right wing.

          Third, if you don’t think Putin, Stalin, Mao, Casto, Kim Yong Un didn’t/don’t have billions stashed in Swiss Bank accounts (or even US bank accounts – since the US is the top tax haven in the world), then you are very naive.

          Fourth, you are right – no government has ever achieved true Marxist Communism, mostly because Marx was an egg-head academic who created a theory that was impossible to actually implement, because it did not take human nature into account.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            stingray65,

            Stalin was bad man but not in that kind way. In fact, he hated when people steal property or money of “the people/state”. Many around him used this against their opponents. He demoted generals when he heard that they brought goods from Germany. In contrast to Putin’s daughters, who [I believe] don’t even live in Russia; Stalin’s sons, including adopted one fought in WWII and one even died.

            I would think, Castro also didn’t gain much personal wealth. He wasn’t that kind dictator and he would be a “good guy” in we didn’t turn him to Soviets

          • 0 avatar
            stingray65

            Slavuta,

            According to several websites that determine net worth, Fidel Castro was worth about $900 million dollars (see link). There is no evidence that he was ever a nice guy – the US was ready to support him, but he decided the USSR offered him more personal riches and security.

            https://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/politician/president/fidel-castro-net-worth/

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            stingray65,

            Cuban revolution was revolution of middle class. Batista was kind of money-grabbing dictator you’re mentioning. And guess what, US was OK with him there. He stole $300M from Cuba. When Castro took control in Cuba, he even traveled to US. But if you remember, that was time of communism witch hunt in US, and some of Castro reforms looked “communist”. So, we sent some militants to Bay of Pigs in attempt to remove him. Castro understood that he needs protection and turned to USSR.
            His friend Che was actually participating as laborer in many state sponsored projects in Cuba, personally digging dirt.

            I doubt Castro accumulated any significant personal wealth above of what he inherited from his wealthy family. He lived under sanctions and USSR was his life support. All the properties and services, and other things that he and his close people used are considered state property. Yes, Stalin also had nice residence outside of Moscow but as soon as he was gone, “next guy” lived in it.

            You said, “the US was ready to support him, but he decided the USSR” – this goes against actual history as I mentioned above. US president refused to meet him during US visit. It took soviets good amount of time to have him as ally.

  • avatar
    Sceptic

    AfD is the only hope right now for Germany to overcome the fascist policies of Merkel&Co. There is no democracy in Germany right now. Just a quasi Nazi political establishment.

    Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
    — Benito Mussolini

    • 0 avatar
      ttacgreg

      Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
      — Benito Mussolini

      If my understanding is correct, there is debate if that quote is indeed Mussolini. That said it seems pretty accurate.

      I ask you, considering the extortionate big Pharma, health insurance industries, fossil fuel companies getting taxes and regulations to discourage renewable energy, Archer Daniels Midlands getting the government to force ethanol on the public, and I could go on an on,
      does this not fit the description merger of state and corporate power?

  • avatar
    Sub-600

    “Nazi” may mean what it means in the U.S., anyone who isn’t in lockstep with the liberal agenda. “Nazi” has lost almost all shock value, much as “racist” has. It may be different in Germany, though I doubt it. Unchecked immigration is a growing concern in many EU nations and the U.K. It does lead to nationalism in some cases but an attempt at a Fourth Reich is a bit of a stretch.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      since every layman has his own opinion these days, they use any/all of these words liberally. for example, some dude called me a racist another day, because I suggested that top selling guy named Ali may has all these sales because he sold a lot of Jihad-mobiles to ISIS

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        slavuta,
        You might have made that statement as a joke. But the underlying reason for your comment was to use another to degrade that person for your personal gain, even as a joke.

        Some might say “toughen the fnck up”, but other will say “WTF”. Pick your audience.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    One heck of a set of accusations.

    I will say that they do have a valid point about highly integrated into the company German unions are.

  • avatar
    stingray65

    Well, if you can ignore the mass killing of Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals, and the invasions of Poland, Western Europe, and the USSR, the Nazis did some good things for the German car industry. The Beetle the Silver Arrows were Adolph’s idea, and so was the autobahn. Some might argue that peak Mercedes was also during the Nazi era with those 540K and 770K models that the party bigs rode around in. And for modern tree-huggers who like EVs, solar panels, and windmills, the Nazis were the originators of the modern environmental movement, German trains ran on time, and Adolph was a vegetarian.

  • avatar
    Sub-600

    If Trump is Hitler then why is my train late?

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Because Trump isn’t Hitler.

      Like I said…modern terms like “left wing” or “right wing” have absolutely zero to do with fascism or communism.

      • 0 avatar
        Sub-600

        That was a meme I saw, a clever play on Hitler “making the trains run on time”. The Trump is Hitler aspect was courtesy of Ashley Judd at the Women’s March on Washington.

        • 0 avatar
          stingray65

          Well if the great historian and political scientist Ashley Judd says Trump is Hitler it must be true.

          • 0 avatar
            Sub-600

            Ashley Judd, Madonna, and Scarlett Johansson…there’s a trifecta for you, lol. Three of the great political thinkers of the age.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            And that great political thinker Ted Nugent thinks Obama’s a communist. Or maybe he’s a fascist this week. You never know with ol’ Ted.

            No shortage of dingbats out there in the entertainment world.

          • 0 avatar
            Sub-600

            Ted Nugent, wow, haven’t heard that name in awhile. I saw him at the War Memorial in ‘79, great show, we couldn’t hear anything for a few days but it was worth it. I don’t care about politics if someone’s talented and Ted rocked hardcore. Eddie Vedder’s a dye-in-the-wool liberal but I travel to see Pearl Jam, best live band ever, next to Sonic Youth.

  • avatar
    Verbal

    The Natzi ain’t got no humanity.

  • avatar
    Secret Hi5

    “…mass immigration of young men resulted in a 10.4-percent increase in violent crimes between 2015 and 2016.”
    -Is that a statement from the AfD party?

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      No. It was a government-commissioned study from the Zurich University of Applied Sciences. The research showed violent crime went down by 21.9 percent between 2007 and 2014 and jumped back up by 10.4 percent the following year. The team attributed the jump to the sudden influx of male immigrants (under 30) after looking at individual cases. However, the AfD has clung to the statistic to help make a case for its controversial anti-immigration stance.

  • avatar
    TW5

    Europe is rapidly reaching the point where the label “Nazi” may not be detrimental. The migrant crisis has reached such a point that many heads of state are campaigning on migrant control or mass deportation. The people in Brussels who started the mass migration crisis knew a hard-right swing in electoral politics would be the end result. It seems the only explanation for the migrant crisis was either to usher in violent Islamic right-wing migrants or to cultivate the rise of violent right-wing natives. Regardless, it seems Nazism is alive and well in Europe.

    The open borders crew were trying something similar here in the US. Mass illegal importation of people to conquer the natives (California) or lead to violent backlash (nowhere yet thankfully). We’re lucky to have Mexico as a neighbor. Though they have serious problems with violent crime, and bad actors exploit these people to perpetrate crimes and sell drugs in the US, they are not religiously predisposed to commit acts of mass murder or to dominate other cultures. Thankfully, most attempts to turn the drug cartels into Al Qaeda and turn La Raza into Islamism have mostly failed. Hopefully, we will return the rule of law to immigration and stop the unlawful invasion by bad hombres before a genuine right-wing party ascends in this country.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      “Regardless, it seems Nazism is alive and well in Europe. ”

      you mixing Nazism and Nationalism. A nationalist may say, “I want Germans live here, don’t let these people in”. Nazis were saying – these immigrants are sub-humans, killing them should be allowed.

      You see, people in Democratic party leadership may say, “we love these Syrian refugees”. And then they get their armored cars with a driver driving them to their house behind secure fence where they live next to same neighbors. It is you, me amigo, who will live next to MS13 gang members, ect. We need to protect the environment, Obama said before boarding his private jet.

      • 0 avatar
        Sub-600

        The Kenyan a.k.a. “The Green President” drove a 300C with the 5.7 liter Hemi. I have a 5.7 in my Charger, there’s nothing “green” about that thirsty beast.

        • 0 avatar
          danio3834

          “I have a 5.7 in my Charger, there’s nothing “green” about that thirsty beast.”

          Really? I’ve had Hemi/8 speed Chargers and found them to get great fuel economy. That is, when I wasn’t constantly on the loud pedal.

          But I get what you’re saying, there’s nothing greenwashed about it, that is unless it’s in sublime or F8 green.

          • 0 avatar
            Matt Posky

            I second the 8-speed Hemis getting far better than expected mpg on the highways. Dense city traffic is a completely different story, however. There’s a reason Dodge says “up to” 16 city. It’s aspirational.

          • 0 avatar
            ernest

            I third that. Just shy of 28 mpg on a trip up to the San Juan Islands with the Charger. Wife’s Camry gets about 4 mpg better. Which is disappointing, considering it weighs a half ton less, with half the cylinders and half the HP.

          • 0 avatar
            Sub-600

            My R/T is a 2013, six speed. And I have a lead foot. I’ve achieved 16 mpg on the highway, there are so many 4-way stops in this town that my city average plummets even if I behave myself.

      • 0 avatar
        TW5

        The difference between nationalism and nazism is relatively plain to see for all but the most ardent leftists. The issue is the people pushing open borders and fomenting cultural clashes between various fundamentalist sects within Europe (right-wing natives vs fundamentalist Islam).

        I tend to think those people are not nationalists. Instead, they are fascists, and this fascistic subset of the plutocracy is apparently alive and well if you look at the laws in Europe.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    I have it on good authority that there are ” ‘Some Very Fine People on Both Sides”

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      How true Lou.

      I have a friend who was a shop steward and he did a good job. It is surprising how many people agree on certain issues. On how to resolve them is where disagreement arises.

      Like gun control in the US. It is blatantly obvious the US really needs to get a handle on this and abolish auto and semi auto rifles and all handguns.

      Hunting gear is okay. Up the the age of consent to 21yo with greater rigour in the vetting process on who can have a rifle, with a psychologist report. Limit say 50 rounds per year to any gun owner and limit the number of weapons to two or three per owner.

      The person can still go out hunting, and if they need more than 50 rounds they must complete a course on how to hunt and accuracy in shooting.

      Other than that for our “sport” hunters, give them a Leathermans when bear hunting. That should make it 50-50 on who’s going to win. That is true sport when you have equal chance of winning.

  • avatar
    ThomasSchiffer

    These days in Germany anyone who is against immigration and openly speaks out about this is labeled a ‘Nazi.’ The Green Party and their idiotic leadership are especially fond of this insult, as are its sheeple supporters who blindly accept anything Islamic (no matter how terrible it is) because it makes them feel like they are helping to integrate these people.

    I am obviously a ‘Nazi’ because I voted for the AfD, and for two reasons. One, because I have lost all trust in the Union (CDU/CSU) and this is my way of teaching them to keep their promises, and two, because I do not want Islamic values in Germany. This is a Christian nation, and I do not want to live a boring life devoid of fun – which will come if Islam has its way.

    Our government is so spineless and appeases these people and their disgusting religious demands such as the ‘right’ to mutilate the genitals of their male and female children, the eradication of pork being served in schools, the removal of Christian symbols in schools in order not to ‘offend’ Muslims and so forth. A refugee family from Syria is being housed in an empty apartment below mine. We and several people in the complex own dogs. These people have complained to the landlord that the apartment complex is ‘unclean’ because of the dogs. Unbelievable.

    Before I come across as a radical immigrant-hating man, please know that I am all for supporting people in need. I was neutral on Merkel’s open door policy but when you are a guest in another country and have everything given to you for free, then maybe you should learn to keep your idiotic religious beliefs to yourself and respect the culture and the people who are providing you with safety and shelter. I won’t get into the recent brutal attacks, rapes and murders committed by a minority of these people who are giving the rest a really bad name…

    But that is enough. This is a board about cars, not politics.

    • 0 avatar
      Nick_515

      “This is a Christian nation, and I do not want to live a boring life devoid of fun – which will come if Islam has its way.”

      “these people and their disgusting religious demands”

      “Before I come across as a radical immigrant-hating man”

      YOU? NAH…..

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      Thomas,
      You have a problem. It’s called fear.

      The world is changing and guess what. The problems that are moving into the EU, including Germany is caused by our great Russian foes and Syria, ISIL, etc.

      Africa also has it’s problems.

      So, as an inwardly thinking person you are, don’t you think we should attempt to make it better for those to remain in their countries? If we turn our backs they will keep on coming.

      Oh, most Islamic people are like Christians, they don’t care much about the small text in their beliefs. Its the few who are the problem.

      • 0 avatar
        ThomasSchiffer

        BigOz,

        You are correct. I am fearful. I fear for the safety of my family. There have been several instances of sexual harassment and even murder by male Muslim immigrants in Germany, Sweden (Stockholm is now known as the ‘rape capital of the world’) and the impression we, the people, get is that our government is on the side of the criminals. Women are afraid of going out at night by themselves because some of them have been attacked – and in at least two instances they have been raped and murdered.

        https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/17/world/europe/germany-teen-murder-migrant.html

        If I came across as very radical I would like to apologize for that, but I am also annoyed that my government does not seem to listen to the demands of their people and instead continues to appease some of the easily offended Muslim ‘guests’ we have in the country by bowing to their demands and putting them before our traditions. It is a long story and I should not get into it. This is a car board after all.

        • 0 avatar
          Sub-600

          This is one of the reasons the ‘Brexit’ is good for the U.K. If the EU wants to adopt Sharia law, then let them. Oddly, Scotland was opposed to the Brexit. I doubt William Wallace would have wanted Angela Merkel deciding what was good for Scotland. It’s only marginally better here in the U.S., Thomas, people who want border security are called Nazis while illegal aliens are called “Dreamers”. Liberalism: Let’s find a cure.

  • avatar
    Hoon Goon

    Kids, this is what happens when you put out garbage like the CLA.

  • avatar
    Nick_515

    FreedMike, you have done a public service holding down the fort and educating all of us in this thread. TTAC, give that man a cigar!

  • avatar
    CuoreSprtv

    Slavuta, can you clarify your earlier comment? Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but do you understand what you are saying?

    “They both were “communal” regimes. The only problem between them was that Hitler hated Jews and considered Jews, communists and bolsheviks all one and the same. And he was kind of correct on this one.”

    Is one of us having a language barrier and/or problem?

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Read:

      Despite continuing certain Weimar-era social welfare programs, the Nazis proceeded to restrict their availability to “racially worthy” (non-Jewish) beneficiaries. In terms of labor, worker strikes were outlawed. Trade unions were replaced by the party-controlled German Labor Front, primarily tasked with increasing productivity, not protecting workers. In lieu of the socialist ideal of an egalitarian, worker-run state, the National Socialists erected a party-run police state whose governing structure was anti-democratic, rigidly hierarchical, and militaristic in nature. As to the redistribution of wealth, the socialist ideal “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” was rejected in favor of a credo more on the order of “Take everything that belongs to non-Aryans and keep it for the master race.”

      Project:

      Despite having social welfare programs, the Communists proceeded to restrict their availability to “ideologically worthy” (pro-revolution) beneficiaries. In terms of labor, worker strikes were outlawed. Trade unions were replaced by the party-controlled All-Union Central Council of Trade Unions, primarily tasked with distributing rare goods, not protecting workers. In lieu of the socialist ideal of an egalitarian, worker-run state, the communists erected a party-run police state whose governing structure was anti-democratic, rigidly hierarchical, and militaristic in nature. As to the redistribution of wealth, the socialist ideal “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” was rejected in favor of a credo more on the order of “Take everything that belongs to exploiting class and keep it for all the people.”

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    I literally want off this planet. I cannot believe the anti-Semitic blather from the former B&B of TTAC. I simply cannot believe it, and once again Matt Posky has tossed around Nazi references and stories on the pages of TTAC. This isn’t the first time.

    I just can’t. Nazis irradicated my family in Hungary, subjected my wife’s family to unspeakable suffering in Stalingrad during World War II, and my father lived with the trauma for his entire life of liberating Buchenwald. My opinion on these things are pretty f***** strong.

    I can’t believe this debate are on these pages. This site has plunged off a cliff.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Thank you for bringing a dose of reality to the latest of far too many terrible threads over the last two weeks.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      APaGttH,
      First its awful to hear of your family’s tragic history.

      Unfortunately this is the current position of the world status.

      The EU, US, even Australia has a group moving more radically to the right.

      Immigration and social welfare is generally the first to be targeted.

      There is some considered dialogue which hopefully the B&B read and understand.

      Oddly most every person who comments here is an immigrant of some form. Some are blind to this.

    • 0 avatar
      ttacgreg

      Not just on this site, it is a general condition that crosses international borders.
      I do wish everyone would take a basic course in political science, and agree on some basic meaning of political terms. The terms socialism and fascism have been so derisively thrown around, that they have no meaning.
      We are all focusing our minds on our differences rather than what we have in common.
      Ignorance is the enemy.
      I want off of this planet too. Maybe my Infowars watching conspiracy theory friend can hook us up with the secret inter-stellar space program he says exists, and we can get out of here.


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