By on March 25, 2017

Tesla Model 3 Prototype on road, Image: Tesla Motors

Tesla founder Elon Musk recently cleared the air in regards to the automaker’s upcoming Model 3 sedan, telling his Twitter followers the more budget friendly Tesla won’t outperform the Model S.

Musk said in a Tweet that some of his less informed followers think the Model 3 is the next-generation of Tesla cars, similar to iPhone 2 vs. iPhone 3, when it will actually undercut the Model S and be sold alongside the full-size sedan. He added the Model 3 is “just a smaller, more affordable version of the Model S,” with less range, power and fewer features.

The outspoken CEO also revealed the Model 3 will be sold in rear-wheel-drive format only at first, citing the desire to minimize configuration complexity to help keep the production launch on schedule. Customers that put down a pre-order deposit on the Model 3 who want all-wheel drive will be first in line to get the dual motor car when it’s released, which will likely be in 6 to 9 months.

Earlier this week, Musk said Tesla intends to skip the “beta” test phase of the Model 3’s development cycle and go straight to “early release” versions. This move will save Tesla money and also help it meet its tight production launch schedule, but it could backfire if those “early release” cars turn out to be problematic. Musk is confident, however, and believes the Model 3 will be much less glitchy at launch than the Model S and Model X.

[Source: Car & Driver]

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82 Comments on “Elon Musk Clarifies Tesla Model 3 Won’t Outperform Model S...”


  • avatar
    Felix Hoenikker

    Given the sustained CUV craze, I see the Model 3 slugging it out with the Chevy Bolt for the best selling EV. While the Model 3 may be perceived as “better” than the Bolt, it loses to the Bolt in the all important form factor swimsuit CUV contest.
    I’m in the market for an EV for local driving, and will be following this closely.

    • 0 avatar
      dash riprock

      The model 3 will easily outsell the Bolt. Tesla has done a very good job of creating cachet for their products/brand. GM just does not have anywhere close to the same cachet so even if the 3 falls behind the Bolt in quality, or price value, the 3 will outsell it.

      Now, will Tesla make money on the 3, I have doubts.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      @Felix Hoenikker: Why the Bolt rather than the Leaf? The Leaf has the same range as the Bolt, but there is a rumor Nissan will get aggressive with the pricing.

  • avatar
    OldManPants

    Poor little blind car!

    Should have white canes for curb feelers.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    So RWD (which will be a deal breaker for those in snowy climes), less features, base range lower than the Bolt, AWD 6 to 9 months later…

    There are cracks forming in this launch plan.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      On the contrary, this makes me happier. I life in western PA and only want RWD and less features than a Model S. I didn’t want the early cars to be blinged up with expensive stuff that I don’t want.

      Camrys don’t get the same features as Avalons or Highlanders, so why should this be any different.

      As for base range, there is no way the Model 3 will be less than 238 miles, and Musk essentially confirmed that also.

      • 0 avatar
        John-95_Taurus_3.0_AX4N

        What does an Avalon have that a Camry XLE doesn’t? Some more room? Standard V-6?

        Yes, having less range and being more expensive than its nearest competitor would make me happier too because Tesla.

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          @John-95…

          The Model 3’s range was stated last year as ‘at least 215 miles’, and I’m certain it will have a bit more than the Bolt.

          The Model 3 base price is still claimed to be $35k, which is less than the Bolt. But while the Bolt maxes out around $43k, the Model 3 will certainly go much higher due to available features like more battery, AWD, glass roof, performance package, Autopilot stuff, and Supercharging plan, none of which are available in the Bolt.

          So I guess if you want to compare apples to oranges the Model 3 is more expensive.

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            “The Model 3’s range was stated last year as ‘at least 215 miles’, and I’m certain it will have a bit more than the Bolt.”

            Musk may be having the SW engineers fiddle with the code to lower motor output to add range (thus, this caveat lowering “performance” expectations).

            Regardless, I look forward to the inevitable 3 vs. Bolt “shoot-out”; that will be SO COOL.

          • 0 avatar
            APaGttH

            …The Model 3’s range was stated last year as ‘at least 215 miles’, and I’m certain it will have a bit more than the Bolt…

            The Bolt is 238 miles and real world testing is showing closer to 245.

            Tesla said the Model 3 would be at least 250, and dropped it to 215. It will be thousands to upgrade to more range via software update is my very educated guess.

      • 0 avatar
        TheDoctorIsOut

        Agree. Musk has learned some lessons from the introduction of the X especially, keep the intro models simple, standardize and get it right on the first year or two of models and add features later to fan interest (and auto press) later. Given the bulk of EVs are extremely popular in the sunshine states from the southwest to southeast the lack of of AWD would not be a liability for those early adopters. Moreover there’s room for both Bolt and Model 3 at the top of the EV market and when’s the last time you saw someone bragging about their purchase of one of those older, less desirable models like the Leaf, the craptastic Smart EV, or a please-don’t-buy-me-it-will-make-Sergio-cry Fiat 500e.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          @TheDoctorUsOut: there’s room for both Bolt and Model 3 at the top of the EV market

          I Don’t see the Bolt outselling the Leaf. The 200+ mile range 2018 Leaf launches this fall. The Leaf may also be priced lower than the Bolt.

    • 0 avatar
      Ryoku75

      The fact that they’re rushing it and skipping development phases, is quite a crack as it is.

      Heck, videogames are rushed all the time so why not cars?

    • 0 avatar
      orenwolf

      I *loved* my RWD RX8 in winter in Toronto! Sliding around turns! Woo!

    • 0 avatar
      arach

      Statements like this crack me up…

      Did you know AWD is actually rare in most snowy climates. Take Syracuse NY for example, considered the snowiest city over 200k people in the US. AWD is sold at a lower percentage than the US as a whole by far.

      Know who buys AWD? people who live in the towns that “occaisonally” get snow, like 2-4 times a year because they freak out over it. People up north often just get snow tires and get on with their life, accident free.

      And yes, I have the facts to back that up. I am a data scientist in the automotive industry and have access to vehicle registration data for the entire country. We were actually surprised by this and researched it further… crazy eh? But go drive in upstate NY and see the low penetration of AWD vehicles… when you see it, it won’t surprise you when you look at the numbers.

  • avatar
    TomHend

    OK it is anecdotal evidence, but Elon Musk has been putting on weight lately, he looks like Mike Dell right before the tech bubble popped.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “stress eating” is a thing regardless of how much money you have. A-list celebrities have their own personal trainers and meal planners to make sure they don’t pack on any weight. Musk ain’t got time for that.

  • avatar
    derekson

    Of course Musk only needs to spell this out because Tesla fans (and Wall Street people to a large extent as well) see the company more in the light of Apple or Samsung, so they regard the product like the iPhone or Galaxy and somehow see Model S -> Model 3 as the progression from Galaxy S4 to S5 or iPhone to iPhone 3G, etc.
    It’s also seen in the light of the original iPhone being $600 and then the iPhone 3G being $200: that it’s just a downward cost progression of more mature technology for the replacement product.
    This is a consequence of Tesla billing itself as a “tech company in the car industry” rather than actually acknowledging that they are another automobile manufacturer. But their stock prices and growth/profitability projections are also based on this image since they don’t acknowledge the realities of the automobile industry being a low margin and high R&D cost industry compared to tech sectors.

  • avatar
    ErickKS

    Live by the hype…. Deal with the consequences.

  • avatar
    stingray65

    If the 3 doesn’t outperform the S then Elon is in big trouble. The S has been unreliable, so the 3 better be better. The S was delayed rolling out, so the 3 better be better. The S is unprofitable, so the 3 better be better.

    • 0 avatar
      Asdf

      The 3 won’t even outperform an old ICE-powered beater, with its indefensibly long charging time. The only charging-related thing Tesla has figured out is how to “charge” a fortune for the model.

      But the undeserved hype and the record number of pre-orders (which will inevitably translate into a record number of dissatisfied owners) for this vehicle may very well make the Model 3 the car that killed public perception of EVs’ viability in the marketplace once and for all. Which would be a pity, but that’s what you get for launching embarrassing, underdeveloped rubbish.

      • 0 avatar
        OldManPants

        Asdf, all you got is this one tune?

        • 0 avatar
          shaker

          Asdf is an anti-EV posting bot.

          Kellyanne Conway:

          Then “Shaker”, you must be a pro-EV posting bot… nyah-nyah.

          Well, you got me there, you sure do.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            Yeah, Asdf hates EVs and Akear hates GM and we better not forget it! Not that they’d let us.

            But at least their comments are usually briefer than the overnight ozzie outgassings.

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            “overnight ozzie outgassings.”

            To which one could be “diametrically opposed”, but still not fully disagree with?

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            That shot clean over my head without even mussing my carefully parted hair.

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            Sorry – I’m just stretching the snark a bit too far.

            Maybe I should have used the word ‘antipodal’ which (in the case of an Aussie that you disagree with) could have geographical and/or philosophical connotations, thus leading the reader to snort uncontrollably at my clever word play.

            Or, to think that I’m a smug jerk. :-)

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            Aha! My first instinct was to put a geographic interpretation upon the cut of your gibe!

            But how could I ever “not fully disagree with” either of the Beeah Bros?

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            But us oldsters can just visualize “Big Al” from Laugh In and just chuckle to ourselves.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            Not since South Park.

            Big Gay Al stays in the forefront.

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            Heh — Oh, well, off to the laundromat – be well :-)

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            You as well, Kindly Alien!

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al From 'Murica

            ASDF is spewing nonsense to be sure, HOWEVER in his nonsense he is making a point without knowing it. Teslas are given a pass on a lot of things that normal cars aren’t because by in large they are the only game in town where they are in the market.

            The 3 won’t have this advantage. If it has an issue the Bolt doesn’t it will matter. Little black circles in Consumer Reports will matter if they aren’t black in the bolt’s review. The Bolt will force the reviewers to be honest with respect to the issues the S had if the 3 has them.

            Sure, the TeslaItes will buy them. But Tesla has to grow the market and move beyond where they are now to be profitable and a serious carmaker. If electric does take off more in the mainstream with GM, Nissan, and other makers closing the gap with respect to range and exceeding Tesla with respect to reliability they are in trouble. Remember they have had the market to themselves in their segment and have yet to make a profit.

            Yes, there is room for the Bolt and the 3. But what about the Bolt, 3, a 200 mile leaf, and the other stuff in the pipeline from other makers? What if the other makers do what they do and start putting money on the hood? GM, Ford, Toyota…They can sustain losses to gain market penetration. Can Tesla? Cutting out parts of development to get to market months after the Bolt…A history of missed timelines…I don’t like this for Tesla.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            OldManPants,
            Phew! Luckily I’m not into those overnight outgassings.

            I will in a few weeks.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            L’il Al,
            I went to the Paris Car show last October. I think Tezla will soon find out that the auto industry is tough.

            All major countries are developing EVs.

            Many think of Tesla as Apple. There is one difference. Apple made products most want. Tesla makes products few want that are subsidised by the taxpayer.

            Tesla can only grow through regulatory change. Forced consumerism.

            Apple didn’t.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Shaker,
            I thought I should join in.

            I do find myself sort of disagreeing to your argument against me. Opposing (an antipodal position).

            I do like the fact you take the time to read my comments. Thanks.

            I do hope my comments induce deeper consideration in your arguments. This is a bonus for TTAC.

            Thank you, again.

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            This venue is part of the “entertainment” budget for me.

            But I find that having to curate my own comments is more “work” than “fun”, especially when I fall into the politics trap (somewhat of my own making).

            The only dog I really have in this fight is that I’m OK with the relative pittance that our gov’t spends on EV incentives and clean energy – Big Oil has such a distinct advantage, due to its “linchpin” status in our national security establishment.

            Oh well, it takes all kinds to make the world an interesting place.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            “Oh well, it takes all kinds to make the world an interesting place.”

            As with bacteria, so with people. And soon our numbers will rival our microscopic mentors’.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al From 'Murica

            Aussie Al, I think you are right to a point, but as EV’s that people can actually afford eclipse 200 miles of range and charge quicker I think the subsidy angle will be less important. They will sell because they work for people, require no fuel expense and very little maintenance. I used to poo poo them as pie in the sky but they really are getting there.

            With respect to the 7500 Credit…Is it a true credit where it can only take your tax liability to zero or is it like the Earned Income Credit where if you use it you can actually get back more than you withheld. If it is the former I have less a problem with it than the later. Not a huge fan of either BUT definitely more tolerable of the the Non EIC type credit.

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            “With respect to the 7500 Credit…Is it a true credit where it can only take your tax liability to zero or is it like the Earned Income Credit where if you use it you can actually get back more than you withheld.”

            You can only lessen your tax liability by $7500 – if (for example) you only paid out $6000 in federal taxes, you lose the $1500.

            I made sure I got the full $7500 for my Volt. Pennsylvania pitched in another $2000, but that counted as income for federal and state tax purposes, so I only netted $1500 there.

            I have never been able to take advantage of the Mortgage Interest Tax Deduction, as I would have to have bought a house of twice the value as I could afford to make out over the standard deduction/exemption.

            So, that’s the extent of my “gifts” from the government(s)… I guess I could always buy a Bolt real quick :-)

      • 0 avatar
        Driver123

        Have you ever owned Tesla?

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      @stingray65: “perform” in this context was 0-60 time, not market performance. The Model 3 won’t be as quick as a Model S.

      But your statement is correct for the other things. If the Model 3 fails to be profitable, reliable, etc, Tesla will sink.

      • 0 avatar

        Artificial product differentiation. Why the Corvette always had to be fastest, why the Cayman had to be slightly slower than the 911…

        Marketers keeping the last 25 hp for a $5k upcharge

        Bastids

  • avatar
    Driver123

    “Tesla intends to skip the “beta” test phase of the Model 3’s development cycle and will go straight to “early release” versions. Musk is confident, however, and believes the Model 3 will be much less glitchy at launch than the Model S”

    Right. Haven’t we heard this line from every software company on Earth? And guess what happened… So people put deposit to get a real car and instead get privilege for “early release”… Beta test for your own money…

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      You’re not understanding what Musk said. He said that they were going to use the production tooling to build the evaluation cars rather than use beta tooling. Nothing about skipping beta testing.

      • 0 avatar
        Driver123

        Which part of “believes the Model 3 will be much less glitchy at launch” is unclear. He admits S and X were glitchy and believes that 3 won’t be. I don’t.

        • 0 avatar
          orenwolf

          You need to reread what mcs said. You’re not understanding what Musk means by skipping the beta phase.

          There was another article on TTAC about that this week, I suggest you read it.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            yes we do understand what Musk is saying. There’s a very good reason *every other automaker* has an initial “slow build” prototype phase, and it’s not because they like spending millions of dollars and months of time making cars they ultimately have to scrap.

            It’s because if you go straight to production tooling to build your prototypes and you run into no-build/stop ship problems which require changes to that production tooling, you’re shut down for a long time.

            I guess I just don’t understand why people who haven’t once set foot inside an automotive assembly plant believe they know what they’re talking about just because they can parrot Elon Musk’s every word.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            “..just because they can parrot Elon Musk’s every word.”

            Not a lot of Evangelicals in your normal milieu?

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @jimz: For the record, I’ve spent a lot of time in several auto assembly plants including taking one from bare concrete floors to full production on a new car. For some plants, I think I still remember every bit of the line. I worked on Fremont as well, but it’s been a long time since I was in there.

            I’ve actually been through the process of bringing a new assembly plant on-line with a new car – hands on experience. I’m not just parroting Musk’s words.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @jimz: I also used to spend a lot of time observing every station on the line. The body shop was always my favorite. Sparks flying everywhere and that glorious smell of burnt metal. I do know what can go wrong on a new production line and have actual experience dealing with it.

            I also come from an automotive engineering family with engineers on both the design and the manufacturing side. I was brought up on this stuff. Admittedly, it’s not current like tresmonos (and I haven’t been in an auto plant in a while), but I do have some experience in auto plant design and implementation.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al From 'Murica

            The problem is that it can’t be anywhere near as glitchy as the other Tesla rollouts. There is competition now and say what you will about GM, they have demonstrated they can launch a high volume car that is reliable on day one and meet the launch date. They haven’t always done it, but Tesla has never done it.

      • 0 avatar
        hgrunt

        I don’t have much of an understanding of automotive production, but what defines a “Beta” prototype and tooling, how does it usually differ from production, and what is the rationale for taking this step before going into full production?

  • avatar
    orenwolf

    There’s a good mea culpa from Musk in that interview:

    Musk: “Because I was a dumb idiot and didn’t realize at the time that it would cause confusion” “Model 3 was going to be called Model E, for obvious dumb humor reasons, but Ford sued to block it, so now it is S3X. Totally different :)”

  • avatar
    zerofoo

    So if I decide to wait in line for a dual motor car – am I gambling that the $7500 federal credit will be gone by the time my car is delivered?

    • 0 avatar
      WheelMcCoy

      Sort of. The anti-EV people would prefer to eliminate it entirely, but making it available to the first 200k vehicles sounds like a reasonable compromise.

      And note that it is a credit, not a pay-out. You need to owe $7500 or more in taxes to qualify, but some can reduce their tax bill with mortgage interest, loss on stocks, etc., in which case they won’t see the full $7500 credit.

      So it depends on your situation.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        Seems to me the only true anti-EV people are the oil companies. Everyone else against handing out subsidies to people buying expensive EV’s isn’t so much anti-EV as they are anti-government waste.

        Tesla’s done a great job at marketing themselves as a vanity brand with green cred that a lot of people are happy to pay for. No need for subsidies.

        • 0 avatar
          WheelMcCoy

          Ok, correcting my post to say:

          “The talk-to-the-invisible-hand people would prefer to eliminate it entirely …”

          Don’t forget gasoline is heavily subsidized by military action.

          Reframed as a security issue — why trade with oil rich nations that hate us — encouraging EVs is a responsible thing to do.

    • 0 avatar
      indi500fan

      Here’s a pretty comprehensive look at when the 200,000 limit may be reached.

      https://cleantechnica.com/2017/01/20/predicting-us-federal-ev-tax-credit-will-expire-tesla-buyers/

  • avatar
    Whatnext

    It’s always depressing to wade into a Tesla post as there are so many haters in them. Whatever happened to Americans celebrating ingenuity instead of trying to tear it down?

    As to the Model 3, I was always under the impression it was the Tesla meant to bring EVs to the masses, so why would it outperform the more expensive Model S?

    • 0 avatar
      indi500fan

      I agree with you on stated expectations for Model 3 vs Model S, but this is a “tech” company rather than a “car” company so some (many?) of the customers expect each new model to be a leap forward.

      And yes it’s not rational to expect a 50% price cut and more content / range / performance.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al From 'Murica

        And again, you said “bring them to the masses”? How. The bolt is cheaper, by all accounts has the same range, and will be on the market prior to when Tesla has stated the 3 will go on sale and Tesla has been known to be optimistic on launch timetables. I just see problems here that Tesla has yet to face as a company.

        • 0 avatar
          Giskard

          Actually, the Model 3 will start at a lower price than the Bolt (base prices are about $2500 apart), though that will be negated from a practical standpoint as the $7500 tax credit is phased out next year. Though as others have mentioned there will be a lot more (expensive) option boxes to tick so most will probably be more costly.

          You also have to look at the whole picture. I would not even be looking at a BEV if it wasn’t for Tesla’s Supercharger network. 3rd party charging (particularly of the DC fast charge variety) is laughably sparse here in flyover country. As good as the competition is (e.g. Bolt, Leaf 2.0, etc.) there is currently no practical way to drive them long distances.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al From 'Murica

            I thought the credit was only being phased out for Tesla since they will have produced enough electrics.

            Also if you routinely drive those long distances a PHEV makes way more sense. Honestly I’d get the Volt.

            And with respect to the charging, I see this as a potential liability in the long term. Eventually, assuming electrics the off there will be a standard. It will be set by the government. The same government where the traditional automakers have lobbyists and were it to happen soon, the ear of the President.

            Think of it. Trump rolls out Infrastructure spending bill he has promised. To avoid the healthcare debacle, he adds some things democrats actually support. One of those things…funding for a national charging network. Tesla would have to license the standard or be left out. I doubt the other automakers would want to pay for licensing so figure on a more open standard that will be backed by the GM’s and Toyotas of the world.

            Remember the best idea doesn’t always win. Look at Tesla’s namesake. He clearly had the best means to generate and transport electricity with AC vs Edison’s DC. History has borne that out. But even in victory, it was Edison’s company that actually came out on top (minus Edison by then). Why? J.P. Morgan’s money, lawyers, and connections. This is where Tesla loses out and why I love their products, but not their future.

          • 0 avatar
            Giskard

            Big Al,

            You are correct in that the federal tax credit will be phased out by manufacturer. That’s why I said the Model 3 will have a cheaper starting MSRP than the Bolt, but that advantage will be eroded as the credit is phased out for Tesla (likely starting Q1 or Q3 next year) well ahead of Chevrolet. They still won’t be that far apart if Tesla sticks to their $35K starting price.

            The vast majority of my trips are short with probably 20 that are 150-250 round trip and another 10 or so that are 300 miles one way every year. My first gen i3 Rex handles this fairly well and is likely more efficient over all as I can run on battery power the majority of the time without lugging around a large engine. It is also significantly more fun to drive than a Volt. I have nothing against the Volt, really, just not my cup of tea.

            As far as charging is concerned there already is an open standard in place in the form of J1772 connectors for Level 1 and 2 charging and the related CCS connector for Level 3 charging (a Supercharger is Level 3). Neither of these is endorsed by Tesla, but they already provide an adapter from their proprietary connector to the J1772 and will probably follow suit shortly once CCS chargers are more common. Tesla offered up their connector for free as the standard, but predictably the other manufacturers decided on a different one (this was all hammered out years ago, by the way).

            My point was that Tesla did not wait for the government or other private companies to build out a viable long distance charging network because they realized they could not sell in the numbers they wanted to without it. Their Supercharger network is very far ahead of any of the other networks, which are gaining steam as well. I hope you are correct and President Trump does slide funding into his infrastructure plan to build out a more comprehensive charging network. Tesla will only benefit from this, though their competitors will benefit even more, and us consumers will benefit the most as we’ll have more choices. Particularly for someone like me that does not live in or near a major population center.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al From 'Murica

      I’m good with it. I just see storm clouds from a business perspective as other makers are now launching cars that are competitive with Teslas in their segment. That is the problem…they aren’t all that ingenious when you get to the bottom of it. Electric motors with a usable range, subpar interior materials for their price point, and a tech heavy interior. What is there that Hyundai couldn’t deliver. Even GM at their worst has very deep pockets with respect to what they can spend developing these models compared to Tesla.

      The S is pushing 6 years old with only a minor body refresh. I haven’t seen anything about a new one on the horizon. As a purveyor of cool tech stuff I like them. As a mass producer of automobiles that has to compete with some of the largest companies in the world that have very deep pockets, massive manufacturing capability and 100+ years of expertise building cars and have now decided to enter at least one segment Tesla desperately needs to be successful in I am not so convinced.

      • 0 avatar
        hgrunt

        I think Teslas not being super ingenious (from a hardware standpoint) is pretty true, but it’s true importance is that it takes a lot of tech that’s been around a while and puts it all together into a car that is generally acceptable to the mainstream, in high numbers.

        Competition in the BEV space probably ends up benefitting everyone, since more resources will go into establishing supply lines, battery manufacturing and research.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          “I think Teslas not being super ingenious (from a hardware standpoint) ”

          What about the smart fuse and the iconel main pack contactor? They have come up with some good innovations.

      • 0 avatar
        WheelMcCoy

        “they aren’t all that ingenious when you get to the bottom of it. ”

        I agree with @hgrunt. Also, big automakers come with baggage, and need to retool their factories. They will try to optimize and share and reuse components to cut costs, and what you get is the unimpressive Honda Clarity:

        https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/02/not-bottom-honda-clarity-evs-range-wont-wow-anyone/

        Lest we forget, Microsoft, with deep pockets, planned to kill Apple’s iPod with the Zune. I’m not saying Tesla’s lead will endure forever, but dethroning them won’t be easy.

    • 0 avatar
      Ryoku75

      “It’s always depressing to wade into a Tesla post as there are so many haters in them.”

      If you’re going to hate “haters” that only makes you a “hater” too. On the other hand, I happen to hate people that hate “haters”, which makes me a hater by extension!

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