By on December 5, 2016

Insane People at the Stock Photo Dealership

Industry watchdogs are becoming increasingly concerned that salespeople are misrepresenting new vehicles’ semi-autonomous features to customers. Considering that most salespeople work on commission, consumers are used to hearing that prices are non-negotiable or that they will get a “great deal” on their trade-in. Dealer fibbing is par for the course.

However, claiming a car’s safety capabilities are more robust than they actually are — either due to greed or ignorance — can cost both parties more than a few extra bucks.

In an interview with Automotive News, Ibro Muharemovic, the head of advanced engineering at Continental, said that he’s dismayed by the lack of consumer understanding regarding active safety technology. Muharemovi, who worked on a lane-recognition system for an unnamed American automaker, brought his mother to a dealership in 2010 to show her the final result of all of his hard work.

“I asked the dealer what the car could do, and then he kind of scared me,” Muharemovic said. “He told me the car could drive itself. I knew for a fact that it couldn’t.”

“Bottom line, educating the consumers on the capabilities of active safety and automated driving vehicles — and highlighting the benefits of such systems — is critical,” he said.

Automotive News cited an example where Donna Lee, an overly trusting Georgian, was told during a test drive not to brake at an approaching intersection. The salesperson assumed the Mercedes-Benz GL450’s driver assistance systems would activate and bring the vehicle to a stop without driver input. Instead, the Benz collided with the stopped car in front of it at around 40 miles an hour. Lee and the salesman survived but not before demolishing several cars and giving a teenager a concussion.

Idiocy such as this isn’t exclusive to dealership sales reps. Tesla has sent some pretty mixed messages on its own hands-free driving system, leading one Model S owner to trust the technology so implicitly that he allowed it to place him beneath a tractor trailer earlier this year.

That tragic May 7th crash helped convince the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration to become more involved in autonomous technology and take a fairly conservative approach toward dealing with it. However, many groups feel its Federal Automated Vehicles Policy doesn’t go far enough establishing clear guidelines — especially in regard to making sure consumers are made literate of their own vehicle’s capabilities.

One of the biggest problems facing the NHTSA is how varied semi-autonomous technologies are between brands. In collision avoidance, some systems might attempt to bring the car to a dead stop, while others may simply slow the vehicle. Lane-keeping technology can a warn a driver when they venture outside the lines, but some cars actively manage steering inputs to keep the car in its lane.

Mike Jackson, CEO of AutoNation, said that he doesn’t think the problem or confusion will be effectively solved until fully autonomous vehicles begin to arrive on dealership lots.

“Until then, it’s going to be a mess,” he told AN.

Even with the proposed training, Jackson thinks dealerships would still face significant problems as driver assist and semi-autonomous tech becomes more prevalent.

Despite training efforts by automakers, Jackson said, there may be systemic dealership issues that could cause significant problem. The National Automobile Dealers Association has data showing exceptionally high staff turnover rates — 65 percent for salesmen and 88 percent of saleswomen in 2015.

With retention so low, dealerships will always be at a disadvantage when it comes to having enough informed and tech-savvy employees on hand. Still, Jackson doesn’t even seem to believe that an average salesperson is even capable of discussing technical features with consumers in a meaningful way.

“A lot of people who love talking about technology, the last thing they want to do is talk about price,” Jackson said. “That’s not what they want to do with their days. It’s an oxymoron. They don’t go together.”

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68 Comments on “Salespeople vs. Reality: When Dealers Misrepresent Technology, You Lose...”


  • avatar
    -Nate

    Wait ~

    The alt right noodle heads keep telling us we need to abolish ALL Govt. agencies wasting tax dollars on this sort of safety nonsense…..

    -Nate

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      What’s this goofy obsession with the so-called “alt-right”? I’d never even heard of it until right before the election. Too much fake news out there.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        Not to mention the actual alt-right *loves* the government.

      • 0 avatar
        redmondjp

        It’s another bogeyman invented by the main-left.

        • 0 avatar
          -Nate

          Another failure to accept their responsibility by the right wing nutters .

          Notice how it’s fine for them to use seriously negative words but a simple and accurate non pejorative description of them raises their hackles .

          -Nate

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

            I didn’t know “noodle heads” was a complement. Oh, its okay, you’re talking about those on the right. Feel free to talk as much smack as you wish while being offended when they respond.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            Alt-right people invented the term “alt-right” on their own so I don’t think they get mad being called that. They probably love the mainstream exposure they are getting.

            However, wanting small government and kvetching about “wasting tax dollars” isn’t a part of any alt-right agenda I’ve seen (unless they are complaining about money going to Israel or any other non-white country). If anything the alt-right champions a government of near unlimited power.

          • 0 avatar

            “Alt-right” is an amorphous term that covers people with widely diverging, in fact conflicting, ideologies.

            Guys like Richard Spencer and Jared Taylor don’t really fit in the American right, which generally believes in individual rights and conserving the American revolution. They’re nationalists and they believe in group rights (in their case for some fictional white “nation”), making them collectivists, and they explicitly reject the premises of the Declaration and Constitution and much of the European enlightenment as well, which is ironic in light of how they hold up Europe as one of the three pillars of western civilization.

            It needs to be stressed that guys like Spencer are nowhere near the center of power on the American right like extreme leftists like the BLM and BDS crowds are on the American left.

            In any case, a couple hundred cut rate Aryans giving a lame heil salute doesn’t particularly scare this particular Jew nearly as much as how the political orthodoxies of the left are making things increasingly uncomfortable and, dare I say, unsafe for Jewish students on campus.

          • 0 avatar
            Kyree S. Williams

            Can we be polite to one another, please?

          • 0 avatar
            corntrollio

            You spend that much time on college campuses, do you, Ronnie? Nice strawmen.

            In any case, equating Nazis with people who disagree with Israel’s politics is pretty ridiculous. How is thinking that a government that engages in apartheid and human rights violations should be treated like other governments who do the same. It’s not anti-Semitic just because it happens to be led by Jews.

            And plenty of Jews are members of J-Street and similar organizations and agree that Israel’s politics are questionable. In any case, “the left” (whoever that is) does not feel monolithically about Israel by any means. And the Christian right is no actual fan of Israel when they talk about The Rapture…

            I like how some of the people here criticize labels while using their own, btw.

      • 0 avatar
        JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

        Duke, you are right. People, especially libs, LOVE to put people in neat little boxes so they can know everything about that person and their beliefs without actually knowing the person or hearing their beliefs. It makes it easy to put them down, make fun of them, and cite examples of their idiocy, even if its all BS, which it usually is.

        I pride myself on not fitting into any one category or “box”. I’m gay and I’m an advocate for canibus legalization. So, I’m in the liberal/MSNBC camp, right? Wrong.

        I purposely didn’t vote in this election because I believed in neither candidate. But, I have previously voted for Romney, McCain, and Bush. The only time I voted for Hillary was when she was running against Obama in the primary. I believed (still do) that Obama was the wrong choice and so my vote was more against him than it was for Hillary. Same when I voted for McCain in the general.

        My choice for President would be Herman Cain with Romney as VP. But, because he got a little fresh with some women back in 1993, he is out. Doesnt matter one bit if he’s the most qualified. If only he were a Democrat, it would’ve been swept under the rug like it was and has been many times for Bill Clinton. How many women have accused him of FAR worse? Hard to say, since they’re quickly buried as soon as they emerge.

        That said, I have voted for Dems in the past when there was an acceptable Rep running. If you’re the right guy/gal for the job, I don’t really care if there is a (D) or (R) next to your name. But, more often than not, I find myself leaning towards the right.

        • 0 avatar
          -Nate

          “Can we be polite to one another, please?”.
          .
          Yes, certainly .
          .
          As soon as the the liars , cowards and treasonists who make true HONEST Conservatives like me look bad every time they start with their unending hate, lies and cowardice, I’ll be as polite as you want .
          .
          Meantime I’ll respond as they lash out and unlike them I don’t get all butthurt and suggest violence because I don’t always get my way .
          .
          -Nate

  • avatar
    jkross22

    The moment before this picture was taken, the giggling woman sat stoically waiting for the paperwork to be signed on her 2013 Kia Sedona. It was just at that moment that her husband _____________.

    You fill in the blank.

    • 0 avatar
      JimC2

      “that her husband _______ ”

      … admitted that their trade-in had a ______ in the trunk.

      Next person fill in the blank!

    • 0 avatar
      W.Minter

      … that her husband admitted that he will drive away with his new lover, the salesman. (BTW, looks more like a 1st gen Boxster key)

      https://stockfresh.com/image/3835794/man-buying-car-from-salesperson

      She could have known it earlier, if she looked in the eyes of her husband one week earlier – instead of staring at the salesman.

      https://stockfresh.com/image/3835840/couple-signing-sales-contract-at-car-dealer

      The story started so romantic. He was her Mercedes mech, and it didn’t look like a good start.

      https://stockfresh.com/image/3835834/woman-talking-to-car-mechanic-in-repair-shop

      https://stockfresh.com/image/3835814/woman-talking-to-car-mechanic-in-repair-shop

      But everything brigthened up the next time they met.

      https://stockfresh.com/image/3835832/woman-talking-to-car-mechanic-in-repair-shop

      Finally it all comes to a good end for her. She meets the man of her dreams, hot like peppers, at a a place where only in fairytales boy and girl meet and fall in love. At the supermarket.

      https://stockfresh.com/image/3835895/woman-in-supermarket-and-shop-assistant

      • 0 avatar
        Kyree S. Williams

        Looks closest to a Chrysler key. To my knowledge, then only car that still uses that key is the Wrangler. The others upgraded to the Mercedes-Benz-based key, which has mostly been phased out for the brick-shaped smart key. But I know it’s not the Chrysler key in question because the hole for the ring is in the wrong spot.

    • 0 avatar
      RHD

      Admitted that he agreed to the $695 window VIN etching and the $495 Tru-Coat.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      We are assuming that the woman is the ‘significant other”. Perhaps she is laughing at the two dudes fighting over the keys! The one dude looks like he is much more into the dude than her.

  • avatar
    dukeisduke

    It’s not always lying, either. Some salesmen are just plain stupid.

    • 0 avatar
      JimC2

      Personal anecdote: several years ago when I was shopping for my ’06 Civic Hybrid (right as the new model came out), a car salesman at dealer X proudly told me that they “idle three cylinders” to save gas. Uhhhh, no, the old version did that, the new version idles all four (or maybe you’re thinking of the Accord Hybrid that idles half the cylinders in its V6…). But hey, if you don’t care to learn the new product then you’re not gonna earn your commission BS-ing me. I’ll spend my money at dealer Y instead.

      • 0 avatar
        Silent Ricochet

        I knew more about the Focus I bought than the salesman that was along for the test drive. I asked about the PowerShift Transmission and if the most recent recalls had been performed on it and he basically lied and/or sounded stupid at the same time telling me it was the “SelectShift Transmission”. He then proceeded to try to sell it on me because my current car at the time was a manual. “You see that button on the shifter?” It was the overdrive cancel / Grade Assist mode toggle, meant for hilly terrain. “That enables Overdrive. This is the SelectShift Transmission, YOU choose how the car drives.” What it actually did was disable overdrive, so I spent nearly the entire test drive having never gone passed 5th gear.

        Having had several retail sales positions in the past, I always made sure I was up-to-date on the technology and knew about the product so I didn’t sound like an idiot when speaking to a customer.

        • 0 avatar
          threeer

          Was once told as I was being considered to start working at a dealership that product knowledge was overrated (if not useless). I had prided myself on being very knowledgeable about most cars on the road, and had helped numerous people with questions they had, but when it came to actual sales, the leadership at said location told me it didn’t much matter how much I knew (or didn’t) about the product. I still find I know more than most sales folks when I am looking at cars, but I guess that doesn’t stop them from being able to sell them.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”

      I sold shoes in a small Midwestern department store for about 2 years at the end of college. I knew more about the lines I represented than most car salesmen know about the cars they sell.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

      Exactly, I went to a Ford dealer after the Fusion Hybrid came out. I was there to drive a Fusion Sport, and I did, but afterwards we walked around talking about the new models on the lot.

      He asked if I knew how the Hybrid powers the electronics (Hybrid system). I said that the engine does that. Nope, its the brakes. He actually said that if its low on fuel and energy, you just ride the brakes (drive with one foot on the throttle and one on the brake pedal) to recharge it. WTF?

      I am aware of regenerative braking, but I have never heard someone describe it as a car’s sole source of electricity.

  • avatar

    The consumer is well informed, does extensive research and due diligence prior to visiting a showroom, and test driving.

    Does the “consumer” really understand how ABS, Traction Control, Stability Program, Belt Tensioners, Air Bags really work, and all the fine points?

    Its the same with driver assist the informed consumer will/should know that he has to get used to how the various driver assist features work on a specific model. A test drive is not the time to explore the various driver assists on any vehicle.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

      They don’t need to know how those passive systems work. The systems you describe work in the background and have been around for decades (most of them). An airbag doesn’t give someone the idea that they can crash into whatever they want with no consequences. ABS and traction control doesn’t make people feel like they can drive 120 mph in pouring rain/snow and nothing bad will happen. Stability programs don’t give people the confidence to let go of the wheel and take a nap while traveling on a twisty mountain road at 70 mph.

      They do need to know that they shouldn’t charge towards a stopped car at 40 mph and expect some magic nannys to stop for them. If the system CAN take control, they need to know that, including WHEN it will and HOW.

      None of the examples you gave will take complete control of the car like collision mitigation systems or autonomous driving programs.

      Most don’t know how fuel injection works, or what makes the interior lights stay on for 30 seconds after they close the door. But, none of that matters because it does not affect their control of the car or what the car will do (on its own, with no input from the driver) in an emergency. There is no comparison.

      • 0 avatar
        -Nate

        So true ~

        I sold used cars for Decades and learning how to gauge the Customer is the # 1 thing a Salesman needs to learn to be successful .

        After I learned this my job got *so* much easier, I’d just show them the car and the vehicle usually sold itself (or not) ~ all I had to do was answer any questions and do the paper work .

        -Nate

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N – valid points. People DO need to know how or when the “autonomous features” built in their vehicle interact with their control of the vehicle.

        I’ve been teaching my two sons to drive and unlike everyone I know, I don’t take them to a flat paved dry parking lot. I’ve been taking them to unused gravel pits and muddy/icy construction sites and/or 4×4 trails. I leave the truck in 4×2 and then shut off the traction/stability control. They drive around and get in/out of trouble then I let them try it with the nannies engaged and 4×4 on.

        It is amazing how much of a difference those background systems make in controlling one’s vehicle. They won’t save you if you make a very bad decision.

    • 0 avatar
      duffman13

      Agreed.

      Moreover, ads like the recent ones I’ve seen from VW and Subaru show things like the cars braking for themselves in the carpool lines don’t do anything to help. Not to mention the more egregious ones from Lexus and Mercedes which show the cars “autonomously” avoiding any number ov hazards, including things that would require significant steering inputs.

      I know the marketing helps to sell the cars, but if sales staff are not informing customers what the real capabilities and limitations of these systems are, they are just making every driver of one of these new vehicles more dangerous on the road due to an inflated sense of confidence in the vehicle’s systems.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    In my experience, salesmen aren’t interested in educating consumers on a vehicle’s particular technology suite. They often either deliberately lie or make up what they don’t know. One example is the time my friend was trying to purchase a 2013 Ford Fusion Energi, and both the salesman and the manager were convinced the charger in the trunk was a premium option (and were trying to charge extra for it) when in fact it was the standard one that came with the car. I mean, why would any company would sell a plug-in hybrid with no charger cable? I went and grabbed the brochure-booklet thing from the stand at the front of the store, which stated that the charger was standard.

    It’s gotten to the point where that SaabKyle guy, the one that does the YouTube videos, typically knows more about the features of a a given model than the people whose job it is to sell the car.

    I will say, however, that I went and test-drove a new Volt a couple of weeks ago, and the salesman was very enlightened as to how the car worked and what all of the features did, and was able to explain them professionally and eloquently. And this is in a market where GM dealerships seem to be patently disinterested in selling anything that isn’t a large SUV or truck.

    • 0 avatar
      notwhoithink

      “In my experience, salesmen aren’t interested in educating consumers on a vehicle’s particular technology suite. ”

      Which is hilarious, because if you frequent certain forums filled with lots of salesmen they’ll tell you that half of their job is to help you learn how to use the car’s features (as if reading the manual is just beyond peoples’ abilities).

      • 0 avatar
        duffman13

        Oooh oooh! Is it reddit’s r/askcarsales?

        I’ve never heard a bigger bunch of self absorbed douchebags talking about their profession and how awesome it is, and I was stationed in a Navy Fighter squadron for 3 years.

      • 0 avatar
        raph

        “Which is hilarious, because if you frequent certain forums filled with lots of salesmen they’ll tell you that half of their job is to help you learn how to use the car’s features (as if reading the manual is just beyond peoples’ abilities).”

        As a society Americans don’t prioritize reading the manual. We for the most part go in for intuitive operation. Its just the way Americans are and how we expect our technology to perform.

    • 0 avatar
      Carlson Fan

      “I will say, however, that I went and test-drove a new Volt a couple of weeks ago, and the salesman was very enlightened as to how the car worked and what all of the features did, and was able to explain them professionally and eloquently. And this is in a market where GM dealerships seem to be patently disinterested in selling anything that isn’t a large SUV or truck.”

      I bought my 1st Gen Volt used and was pleasantly surprised that the salesman along on the test drive knew so much about the car and was generally pretty enthusiastic about it. Of course I guess a sale is a sale. I was expecting completely the opposite though. One of the big complaints from buyers/owners back in 2011 when it first came out was that most dealerships could have cared less about selling one.

    • 0 avatar
      OneAlpha

      There’s a convention in the sales industry that What they’re selling doesn’t matter, because salesmen rely on soft skills to exploit weaknesses and defects in human character.

      Sometimes, it’s like that on purpose.

      I worked for a company once where the owner’s deliberate policy was to keep the sales force ignorant of the manufacturing department’s actual capabilities.

      His theory was that if the salesmen knew that we couldn’t make a particular item, it might keep them from pursuing that sale.

      I suspect he read that in a book on “leadership.”

  • avatar
    zoomzoomfan

    My friend was wanting to test drive a new Mazda3 this past weekend and brought me along and was quick to mention how I knew more about the car than the salesman did. The salesman had no idea what “SkyActiv” was other than it “makes the car get good gas mileage.” Sigh.

    • 0 avatar
      duffman13

      To be fair, Skyactiv is an entire suite of changes designed to do specifically that. The average consumer doesn’t care about the 14:1 compression, partial-akinson/miller cycle behavior, bundle of snakes exhaust manifold, direct injection, extensive use of high strength steel, full lockup auto transmission, and everything else involved. They just care that it gets good mileage.

  • avatar
    FalcoDog

    Just like every other profession, there are good and bad sales people. A good (read successful) sales person will know quite a bit about the product they are selling and where to quickly get the information they don’t have. The best know how to gauge the customer and how to communicate this information in a way that adds value the sale. The worst just make it up as they go along hoping they say the right thing to get a sale.

    • 0 avatar
      brn

      Yes.

      We love to toss out examples of salesmen who either lie or are ignorant. They do exist. We ignore the fact that most salesmen aren’t as bad as the examples presented here.

  • avatar
    carlisimo

    The car industry is the only one I’ve personally dealt with sales reps that often know nothing about what they’re selling. The kids selling knives door-to-door know more about those knives.

    I have a friend who only wanted one thing in a Civic: ABS (this was years ago). They sold him a Civic LX without it. Another guy tried to tell me that a Miata on the lot had ABS when it didn’t. Fortunately I had done some basic research and could read a window sticker, unlike my friend. There was the Hyundai salesman who didn’t recognize an Elantra GT on his lot and insisted that it was another manufacturer’s used car that had been parked in the wrong part of the lot.

    I get that the turnover is high in that field, but couldn’t they give their reps an hour or two of car information as part of the training?

  • avatar
    pwrwrench

    I concluded that to be a car salesperson you have to sign a document, and pass a test, to the effect that you know NOTHING about the cars you are going to sell.
    About 20 years ago I was at a Ford dealer to get some parts. As I walked through the showroom towards the parts dept I stopped to look at a Ranger pickup. A salesman quickly appeared and started trying to sell me a truck. To make conversation I asked him about the good and bad points of the Ranger with a V6 or a V8. He told me the Ranger was not available with a V8. The one we were standing next to had the hood open and it had a V8. It was also listed in big type on the window sticker. When I pointed this out the salesman muttered some excuse and hurried away.

    • 0 avatar
      JimC2

      This is one of those open secrets in the sales world. The one single thing required to be a successful salesmen or saleswomen is to not take “no” for an answer.

      • 0 avatar
        FalcoDog

        “This is one of those open secrets in the sales world. The one single thing required to be a successful salesmen or saleswomen is to not take “no” for an answer.”

        No, a truly successful sales person knows when to say “here’s my card, call me if I can help you out” and then walk away. Truly successful sales people don’t have time for that kind of nonsense. They are too busy writing up the next contract. Fact.

    • 0 avatar
      MAGICGTI

      Ranger never did have a V8…where did you dream this up?

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Unless Ranger was a trim back in the 60’s or 70’s.

      • 0 avatar
        87 Morgan

        No kidding. Are we talking about a 1978 Ford F250 with the Ranger option? I believe that was available with a 460 CID. I know of a couple of guys who have stuffed 5.0’s into a Ranger; I am not aware of any Ford Ranger Pick Up post 1980 available for sale in the U.S.A with a V8 engine as an option .

        • 0 avatar
          Drzhivago138

          Ranger, Ranger XLT, and Ranger Lariat were still trim levels until 1982, when they were changed to XL and XLT Lariat in preparation for the upcoming Ranger compact. But none of these “Rangers” had a V6–the base engine was still the 300 I6, and only 1982-83 F-100s and 150s had the unpopular 3.8 Essex V6 option–over 30 years ago now, not 20.

          TL;DR, OP is mistaken about some detail or another in his story.

  • avatar
    MAGICGTI

    Why is Mike Jackson, operator of the worst national megadealer, talking about issues from sales department? Perhaps if he paid sales people better instead of choosing the lowest common denominator, even at his MB dealership, he might get a better caliber salesperson.

    Just a thought.

  • avatar
    VoGo

    This reminds me of a true story about a corporate real estate agent in Toronto. He was bragging about how strong the windows were in a building on the 30th floor to a bunch of impressionable summer interns.

    To prove his point, he ran into the window, expecting it to hold up. It didn’t. 300 feet down.

    • 0 avatar
      runs_on_h8raide

      hey VoGo…got a link for that? I don’t trust the internet anymore, being that this is a “fake news” website and all. I mean…the only news and info sites are your CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, NYT, and the Colbert Report according “real news” sources etc etc etc.

      Anyway back to the rest of ya and the article…. who cares what the salesman says or does…the customer is ‘always right’ and it always comes down to who can go a couple of hundred sheckles or thousand below invoice. I mean seriously…if your salesperson looked like George Clooney, can recite every feature of the car ever made by a manufacturer going back 3 decades, offers you a cappuccino and has the car you want in stock, in brown and manual with a diesel for 200 under invoice…you’re still walking out of the dealership to go somewhere else to get it from some slob that just ate his lunch without washing his hands coming out of the bathroom for 300 under. Am I right? Of course I am.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @runs_on_h8raide – This is from Snopes:

      “ORIGIN:It isn’t often we have occasion to employ the term “accidental self-defenestration” in an article, but that phrase certainly applies to the case of Garry Hoy, a 38-year-old lawyer with the Toronto law firm of Holden Day Wilson, who on 9 July 1993 plunged to his death from the 24th floor of the Toronto-Dominion Bank Tower building at TD Centre in front of several horrified witnesses.

      For motivations that remain unclear to this day Hoy had apparently developed a fondness for showing off the tensile strength of office building windows (and/or demonstrating his fearless trust in that aspect of building design) by running and hurling himself at window panes in front of onlookers, who would watch a stunt that always ended with Hoy’s bouncing off of the window panes, leaving both glass and lawyer unharmed. On a fateful day in 1993, however, Hoy attempted his feat in front of a group of prospective legal apprentices with disastrous results: Apparently the first attempt came off as usual with Hoy harmlessly rebounding off the window, but when Hoy threw himself against the pane a second time, it popped out of its frame and sent Hoy fatally tumbling 24 stories to the courtyard below.”
      ………………………………………………………………………
      It was a lawyer not a salesman but both tend to share the “least trusted profession” title with politicians.

  • avatar
    OneAlpha

    Dealers can get away with this kind of dishonesty – and every other kind of lie regarding the products they’re selling – because People Hate Math.

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