By on January 11, 2016

All-New 2017 Ford F-150 Raptor SuperCrew

Ford unveiled Monday its 2017 Ford F-150 Raptor SuperCrew complete with four doors, a 3.5-liter turbocharged V-6 and 10-speed transmission because more numbers always wins, all the time — except for when that number is power output, because apparently we still don’t know that yet.

The supersized truck with a supersized engine shaved 500 pounds by shedding two cylinders and aluminum body parts, according to Ford. The SuperCrew’s 145-inch wheelbase is fully a foot longer than the SuperCab’s footprint, and six inches wider than the current F-150, but still, really, no power figures.

But if you’re really into shaking up four friends in the rear seats, the Raptor SuperCrew sports an available Torsen front differential.

The off-road bits are tougher, according to Ford. In addition to 17-inch BFG KO2 all-terrain rubber at the corners, the Raptor sports bigger Fox Racing shock absorbers with nearly an inch more suspension travel than the last model, and a new terrain management system with Street and Baja settings because why not race truck?

Under the hood, Ford stuffed a 3.5-liter EcoBoosted V-6 that makes more power than the 6.2-liter V-8. We’ll wait for details on output, which should be coming soon because the truck is slated to hit dealerships this year.

According to Ford, the 2017 Raptor sports a new transfer case that is electronically controlled, but still mechanically locking.

Ford didn’t say how much the Raptor will cost when it hits dealerships later this year.

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86 Comments on “NAIAS: 2017 Ford F-150 Raptor is The Bulldozer for Your Sandcastle...”


  • avatar
    thelaine

    Sweet.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      thelaine,
      It looks nice. I do think a diesel V6 version would make it very sweet and more capable off road.

      The biggest killer is it’s size. A Ranger Raptor would be an even better off road performer.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        Serious question, because I don’t know; how would a V6 diesel make this truck more capable off road? Just the ability to go farther?

        • 0 avatar
          Drzhivago138

          It would make it heavier, so it would be more grounded to the ground.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          There’s a reason why the Cummins isn’t available on the PowerWagon, and it certainly isn’t because it wouldn’t sell.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          bball,
          Then you obviously don’t off road.

          Off roading isn’t about the biggest, mostest, largest, especially in the power departement.

          Like motor racing power does have it’s advantages, large advantages at that. But, in off roading it’s about traction and how efficient the interface between the vehicle and surface is.

          I do know from my drag racing days you were after 115% of wheel speed versus vehicle speed.

          Off roading you don’t want any wheel spin. So the greater horse doesn’t really give you as much an advantage.

          The Raptor when all of the chest beating is put aside is just a high speed off road track vehicle. It’s versatility is hampered by it’s size, the lack of range due to it’s gasoline engine.

          The EcoBoost might have some fantastic power and torque figures, but how much fuel is used to actually use this power?

          So, yes you can go to some four wheel drive pard on the outer fringes of suburbia and go off roading. But, I wouldn’t like to traverse Australia in one. The low payload alone will restrict the amount of fuel you can carry in the bed.

          I do believe the Lion V6, in a Raptor, with a revised payload would make an ideal Outback tourer.

          Until then the reality is a base model 3.2 diesel Ranger will outperform a Raptor, by a long shot.

          Ford build these so guys like yourself can have wet dreams of off roading, when in fact most just want to look good in front of their friends and at Lowes.

          A hairdresser wagon is what it is and yes it has some great dirt road creed. But make sure there are plenty of gas stations to sate it’s thirst.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I obviously don’t off-road. My question reflected that fact. No need to be a d!ck. If I buy a truck, it won’t be a Raptor. It would probably be an F150 XL.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            bball,
            Sorry if you have gotten offended.

            But, the reality how many industries, militaries, even off road racing events use gasoline globally?

            Industry and the military use diesel off road, even the Dakar uses diesel as most any major global off road race where durability, speed and reliability is required.

            The US seems to be the only country that promotes gasoline as a premium off road fuel.

            The Raptor is an easy value added product for Ford. It looks good and most people by it because of perception, not off roading.

            If you are serious about off roading you would not buy a Raptor.

            Also, the title is a bit of a misnomer, it is far from a bulldozer. A PowerWagon is more of a bulldozer.

            You might not like my comments due to your bias towards Ford, but I have stated the same for that XD Warrior concept.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            You being a d!ck doesn’t offend me. It just illustrates that you can’t answer a question, or post here, without being an a$$. My question had nothing to do with brand, national origin, or lifestyle. Instead of answering the question, you had to $hit all over everything. To be honest, I needed a little humor after my run in the snow. Thanks.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @bball

            Ok so my conference got cancelled and my Feb plans for Florida are fubar. What dates were you gonna be down there again?

          • 0 avatar
            daver277

            You speak the truth.
            Unfortunately, NA truck owners avoid reality.

          • 0 avatar
            stuki

            I always wondered wondered whether the myth about Australians living their lives upside down was true. I guess it is….

            Only in an upside down land, would anyone even consider a bloody diesel, out of all things, for a Baja “race inspired” truck. Diesels weight an absolute shit ton. Imagine landing jumps with one of those hanging over the front suspension. What you want out of an engine for a truck like this, is maximum power per engine weight, and a short block, so you can move the engine towards the rear. Pickups are already front heavy enough. Perfect for doing “truck stuff”, like towing, but absolutely something to be mitigated as much as possible inn a race truck. Even one where the “races” are limited to friendly ones between exurban contractors.

            I do wish we had more diesel recreational trucks over here like you do down there, as they are good for something, aside from hard work. But that something is travel/expedition use. In which case, you don’t have long travel “racing” suspensions, limiting payload to four fat flatbillers, a spare tire and a case of beer. Nor do you generally want 315 tires on half tons, nor half tons wide enough to barely fit in two Rubicon Trails laid next to each other in parallel. This thing is billed as a “race” truck. And it does do a pretty good impression of one.

            But if you’re in doubt, you can always pretend you have a diesel version by sticking a 2×4 under the throttle, and filling the engine compartment with lead shot, if that sort of thing is more to your liking.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          “Serious question, because I don’t know; how would a V6 diesel make this truck more capable off road? Just the ability to go farther?”
          ——————-

          More torque at a lower RPM. You wouldn’t have to race the engine to put down all the torque you need.

          • 0 avatar
            CJinSD

            This isn’t a rock crawler. Raptors are popular in the So Cal deserts, because they’re faster than other stock trucks. There are places where low end torque trumps power, but not in places where you need to combine a foot of suspension travel with high speed damping control. There are lots of better rock crawlers, especially ones that are narrow enough to give one options when choosing a path through the rocks. This is about roosting through the sand in wide open spaces.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Big Al from Oz – you say that the killer is size but on another site you commented that Ford should look at the Titan XD “Warrior” concept.

        Off-roading is highly variable past-time. Ford does not market the Raptor as a Rubicon machine nor do they say it is a tight trail scalpel.

        A V6 diesel would in theory add fuel range and help with crawling but nothing else. It would tend to make the snout heavy. That is where the TTDI V6 will be good. it will lighten the nose. A truck marketed as a baja sand jumper needs to be as light as possible in the nose.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          Thanks Lou for your comment, but there are a few flaws in it, under/overstatements and you seem to have negated my complete comment, ie, you have cherry picked a statement from the entire comment.

          I have become used to the techniques you employ in your vain attempt to solicit a retort that could be viewed as “anti social” on this site.

          So, please, use some maturity in your comments directed at me.

          Thanks again.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            What, in particular, do you object to in Lou’s comment?

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Drzhivago138,
            Thanks for your interest.

            Go to PUTC and have a read.

            Use the net, it’s at your finger tips.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Actually, Dr.

            Just read my comments here at TTAC and you will see how I view the Raptor.

            I view it as a great money spinner for Ford. Yes it does well in certain off road situations, but how many dune jumper are there.

            Most Raptors are accessories.

            So, most of the bullsh!t discussion regarding the Raptor here is done by many who don’t off road or know what is needed when on an extended off road journey.

            The Raptor would be limited for even a three day weekend outing.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            OK, thanks for the “answer.”

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            You are welcomed, what did you expect with the question you posed?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @BigAl – nasty little retort to @bball40dtw. You can talk tough to someone who does not “off-road” but what about holding your own with someone who has “off-roaded” dirt bikes, quads, and every size of pickup?
            “Off roading you don’t want any wheel spin.”
            REALLY????
            I had said this, “Off-roading is highly variable past-time.”
            There are times when you do not want wheel spin or at least very little of it. Very hard terrain coupled with high traction is an example or hard surfaces that are slick. Off camber, rocky and log or root strewn surfaces are other examples where wheel spin is a hindrance. Rock crawling is an example. Motorcycle Trials riding is another.
            Wheel spin or at least controlled wheel spin is handy if you have very sticky mud that will clog up your tires. Wheel spin can be handy in corners so you can drift through a turn. One can shorten one’s turning radius by deliberately spinning one’s wheels.

            “Off roading isn’t about the biggest, mostest, largest, especially in the power departement.”
            Um………
            I had said this, “Off-roading is highly variable past-time.”
            A wide long vehicle is much more stable at speed but is a huge hindrance in areas where turning radius and breakover is an issue.
            Power?
            I had said this, “Off-roading is highly variable past-time.”
            Again – depends on the setting. In sand you tend to need lots of it to get on top of it and maintain momentum. A wide rev range tends to help since shifting can get you into trouble. Less power helps in poor traction situations since you are less likely to overwhelm traction.
            Range?
            I had said this, “Off-roading is highly variable past-time.”
            Well, if you are talking about long distances then a small truck also becomes a hindrance. The Raptor was designed for USA deserts and open spaces. Range isn’t going to be an issue in population dense Southern California.
            I had a Ranger. I sold it and bought an F250. More cargo capacity means increased range.
            “Until then the reality is a base model 3.2 diesel Ranger will outperform a Raptor, by a long shot.”
            I had said this, “Off-roading is highly variable past-time. I will borrow a quote from you, “Thanks for your comment, but there are a few flaws in it, under/overstatements and you seem to have negated my complete comment, ie, you have cherry picked a statement from the entire comment.”
            1.You like smaller trucks.
            2. You don’t care for Ford
            3. You like diesels.
            In closing, I had said this, “Off-roading is highly variable past-time.”
            One has to look at one is doing and look at what is available.
            There is no truck that is good for every off-road situation.

          • 0 avatar
            thelaine

            @louBC

            As usual, spot on comments about pickups and off roading. The Raptor is amazing for a truck that can be driven from the dealer’s lot right out to the desert for a massive good time. Engine, tramsmission, suspension and electronics all combine to make it a high speed desert runner no other stock pickup can touch. It is not ideal for some other off road applications, but does fantastically on rutted and rocky dirt roads and other bumpy terrain. This truck is awesome.

            Big powerful pickups just bring out the Church Ladies, Puritans and haters the way no other vehicle type does. As you say, there is no perfect vehicle for every situation, but the Raptor has its place and is fun as hell. The new one is lighter AND more powerful? Yes, please. Thank goodness we have Raptors and Powerwagons to go with Wranglers and Tacomas. Bring on the Bronco and Ranger and Jeep pickup.. I love them all. The more the better and to each his own.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Lou,
            I call it as I see it. bball doesn’t off road as he stated. So, how can that be arrogant.

            As for me being anti Ford is a bit rich. I have had nothing but praise for the new Mustang.

            I do like the Ranger and make positive comments. I even own a Ranger more or less.

            I do off road, all types of off roading and my belief is my pickup is better suited all round off road than this Raptor.

            As I’ve stated the Raptor does good at what it is designed to do, but the people who buy the vehicle are the ones I target, and those dumbass Frod phans.

      • 0 avatar
        Higheriq

        Or a regular cab ;)

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @BigAl – I didn’t use the word “arrogant”.

          I wasn’t talking about cars i.e. Mustang either.

          I’d rather have a Raptor for travelling back country dirt roads then a small truck. The Raptor is much more stable because it is wider and longer. Even my F150 is easier and less tiring to drive for long distances on gravel roads than a small truck.
          Small trucks don’t fit the hard packed part of the road as well where commercial trucks always drive. Racers will talk about driving into “the marbles”. The same principle applies on gravel roads.

          The Raptor shines where you have the room to take advantage of its suspension, electronics, and dimensions.

          A small truck shines at slow speeds and tight terrain.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @Lou_BC: I will agree with your last statement though not fully agree with the one before it. Yes, length and width is good for long, fast, straight runs, but that very stability works against it when you HAVE to turn. That’s when a lower center of gravity and a somewhat shorter wheelbase gains the advantage. As for the width of the track, you’re right but it is possible to get too wide at which point it becomes ungainly in relatively tight quarters.

            Essentially, every vehicle is a compromise in one way or another, there’s no “perfect vehicle” for all people. As such, people need to stop trying to say that one truck (or car) is best for all people who need a truck/car. I’ve never said that a full-sized truck is outright bad, though I have said they’re bloomin’ too large. They’re bigger now than they ever were. Still, they do have their purposes for those who need that size and power. But for me? I don’t need the size and power. I want something small enough to be agile, large enough to carry me, my wife and my dog inside and enough bed to safely carry a 4×8 sheet of plywood/wallboard even if it does extend out the tailgate. An extended cab 80s or 90s Ranger, S-10 or Dakota is plenty big enough and I could comfortably get by with a ’70s-vintage import as long as it had an extended cab. With a little imagination, even those little trucks could safely carry a sheet of plywood in the bed, even if it did hang out over the tailgate. Would I carry a slide-in camper in one? Probably not. But it should be able to tow any number of pop-up style campers with almost no effort. It’s simply a matter of scale to fit the truck to the need. I like smaller, others like bigger. I accept that. But the Big Truck mob doesn’t want to accept that.

  • avatar
    Hummer

    If they’re using the same 315/70R17s they’ve been using I would be very interested in knowing if they got BFgoodrich to manufacturer it in D ratings. I’m tired of the E rated tires I have on my truck and would like the 315/70R17 D rated KO2 that replace the stock KO.

    • 0 avatar
      Firestorm 500

      You don’t have to run 80 PSI in the E tires all the time.

      Two less body plies wouldn’t be noticeable if you had Ds.

      • 0 avatar
        Carlson Fan

        “You don’t have to run 80 PSI in the E tires all the time.

        Two less body plies wouldn’t be noticeable if you had Ds.”

        Exactly, I run the E tires on my GMC HD at a around 54-56 PSI when I’m not towing or hauling. I had the same BF Goodrich tire(different size’) in a “D” before that & no noticeable difference in ride.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          So you didn’t see any difference? It might just be the Coopers on it are rough running to begin with in that case.

          • 0 avatar
            Carlson Fan

            No not any noticeable difference. I think the tires themselves have the biggest impact. The factory E tires rode a lot harsher than the BF Goodrich ATs I’m running now but lasted a lot longer and were strictly a road tire. They were also a smaller tire. Remember the little hockey puck tires all the GMT800 HD trucks came with when new.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            My last set of BFG A/T only lasted about 40,000 miles, the current Cooper STT are 45k now and they need to be replaced; I’m about to take a knife to them and sipe them to see if I can get another couple thousand miles.

            At $1,500 for a set of stock tires I’d like to get every last mile I could get. Hopefully the KO2s are better than the KOs, we’ll see.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        They’re running at 36 psi, no way I’d put them at the max.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        I run 35 PSI in my 10 ply tires on my F150. The tire shop that installed them as well as the Ford dealer said that one should run the recommended tire pressures on the door tag.

        • 0 avatar
          Dan

          Unless the door tag is for LT tires, in which case why even ask, that’s correct only by coincidence. The right way to determine pressure is using the load inflation tables to match up your new LT tire to the load rating for the factory P tires at factory recommended pressure.

          35 PSI is about where you want to be for oversized offroad tires but it’s awfully low for the normal sizes. 113 load index P265/70R17 is rated for 2535 lbs at 35 PSI. LT265/70R17 is only rated for 1890 lbs at the same pressure. You need to run 52 PSI to get back to 2535 lbs.

          It drops off fast with larger tires. LT285/70R17 only needs 46 PSI. LT315/70R17 needs 36.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Dan – I will adjust PSI based on what I am carrying but my 1/2 ton is rated for 1540 lbs cargo. I’m not stressing them with a max load. I went with 10 ply tires because the stock tires did not hold up well to dirt roads and were prone to flats.
            35psi at the 1,890 lbs you pointed out will put me around my trucks GVW.

  • avatar
    bball40dtw

    I think the FORD badging on the grille needs to be bigger.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    So even bigger, even lamer and even more worthless than the original. When I first saw Ford’s promotional film about the truck (a 30-minute infomercial) I thought it was a very neat idea… until I looked up the price. Since then I’ve learned that it is seriously lacking in everything a true truck should be, despite its size.

    I don’t care about the rest of you; what I want in a truck is convenience and quite honestly there is no full-sized or even late-model mid-sized truck that qualifies. If my ’97 Ranger were extended-cab 4×4 it would be absolutely perfect for my needs. As it is, I can live quite well with it though I’m forced to keep my Wrangler for long trips and bad weather due to needing to carry my dog as well as everything else that usually rides with me.

    • 0 avatar
      hubcap

      As Jake said to the Penguin…

      “I guess you’re up sh*t creek”…and ya gots no paddle!

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @Vulpine – since you do not like full sized trucks why bother to read the thread?

      I’ve had a few Rangers.

      No thanks.

      They suck for interior space.

      looks like you have noticed that point.

      • 0 avatar
        Carlson Fan

        A standard cab in a compact PU is so small they are next to useless. I figured that out when I borrowed a friends Mazda PU for the weekend. When I bought my new compact Toyota in ’93 it was extra cab or nothing. Like the taj mahal inside compared to that Mazda.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        Why bother? Let me ask you this: Why is GM building the ‘mid-sized’ C-twins? Why is Toyota still building the Tacoma? Why is Nissan still building the Frontier? Why is Ford about to bring back the Ranger? And why, oh WHY is Hyundai working on a Santa Cruz?

        Why? Because the more noise we small-truck owners and those who want to be small-truck owners make, the more the OEMs realize they’re missing out on a major market. I don’t need a house on wheels for it to be a functional truck; I just need enough room inside for me, my wife and my dog. I also like the simple fact that I can carry cargo management, tools and other gear inside out of the weather when I don’t have a load in the bed. Or haven’t you noticed that even your full-sized rigs are losing their standard cab for extended and crew cabs? I want a bit of space behind the driver’s seat, not a bloomin’ office on wheels. And that’s the way a LOT of the small-truck people want it; big enough to do the job and no larger.

        • 0 avatar
          Drzhivago138

          >Because the more noise we small-truck owners and those who want to be small-truck owners make, the more the OEMs realize they’re missing out on a major market.

          “There are dozens of us! DOZENS!”

          BTW, you didn’t answer Lou’s question. And I don’t know why you put mid-sized in quotes.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Vulpine – did you buy a NEW Colorado or Canyon or Tacoma or Frontier?
          Nope. You bought a used Ranger.

          Complain all you want but car companies will only build what they think will sell in fairly large volumes unless you want to pay a $100,000 dollars or more for exactly what you want.

          This thread is about the F150 Raptor. This truck is a full sized half ton truck that is as wide as a 1 ton dually. It is built for high speed desert use where width and length are a benefit.

          “So even bigger, even lamer and even more worthless than the original. ”

          Um……..

          Why does this truck sell so well?

          Most who buy it will never turn a wheel in anger.

          It is big and bold and in your face.

          It may be worthless and lame to you but I am sure that Ford Motor Corporation feels and believes the complete opposite.

          How often do you really and truly hardcore offroad your Jeep?

          Most people buy Wranglers and Raptors for the offroad prowess they possess and the image that they convey. Few will ever truly explore their potential.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            “… did you buy a NEW Colorado or Canyon or Tacoma or Frontier? Nope. You bought a used Ranger.”
            — False. I was GIFTED a very low mileage ranger that hadn’t even turned 20K miles after 17 years. Didn’t spend a penny to take possession.
            —————-

            “Complain all you want but car companies will only build what they think will sell in fairly large volumes unless you want to pay a $100,000 dollars or more for exactly what you want.”
            —- Which is why GM bet on an oversized ‘mid-sized’ pickup which clearly proved there was a demand for a smaller truck. Had they gone back to the S-10 size, I’m betting sales would be double to triple what the C-twins currently achieve.
            ————————————-

            “This thread is about the F150 Raptor. This truck is a full sized half ton truck that is as wide as a 1 ton dually. It is built for high speed desert use where width and length are a benefit.”
            —- Now think about that for a moment. A pickup truck that’s supposed to be street legal, now wider than ever trying to drive against facing traffic on roads barely 20 feet wide in some places. Many roads around where I live are like that and they carry some pretty heavy traffic. If two of these meet on that road, one or both may have to put wheels in the ditch to avoid the other.
            ———————-

            “Why does this truck sell so well?”
            —- Because some boys need the biggest toys to feel good about themselves.
            ———————–

            “Most who buy it will never turn a wheel in anger.”
            —- Most who buy it will never carry a dirty load in the bed or even any significant weight. As I recall, some versions can’t even carry anything in the bed if the cab is full of passengers. Worse even than some Ram trucks that are so maligned by ‘Big Boy Toy’ owners.
            ————————————

            “It is big and bold and in your face.”
            —- Which is why I don’t like it. It appeals to the bully in some people for just that reason. Where I live, I see a LOT of bullies driving pickups and trying to scare other people off the road.
            ————————–

            “It may be worthless and lame to you but I am sure that Ford Motor Corporation feels believes the complete opposite.”
            —- Then why does it have such a low cargo and towing capacity? They know it’s a toy and they’re pandering to the children who want their toys.
            —————————–

            “How often do you really and truly hardcore offroad your Jeep?”
            —- I didn’t buy it for off-roading, though I have done so at Rousch Creek in Pennsylvania. I bought it because sometimes I need to hit the streets when there’s a foot or more of snow on the pavement or when visiting the in-Laws’ farm which has a dirt (and mud) driveway. Sure, I might have chosen something else, but the Wrangler is also the only convertible with a cheap-to-replace soft top, comparatively speaking. I bought it for its utility, not because it’s a toy.
            ————————

            “Most people buy Wranglers and Raptors for the offroad prowess they possess and the image that they convey. Few will ever truly explore their potential.”
            —- At one time that was true and the Wrangler is still the king of off-roading due to its smaller size and much tighter turning radius. It can take some trails a full sized truck can only dream of taking. But for the most part both vehicles are driven by people who want to look tough; it has nothing to do with capability any more. At least, here in the US that’s true. Actual trail riders make up a relatively small proportion of Wrangler and 4×4 pickup owners, the rest buying the capability to ensure an ability to travel/commute even in bad weather.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Vulpine –
            —Gifted……. okay.
            Point is…….You didn’t buy one of the new small trucks I mentioned.
            Oh and see below….
            —“Had they gone back to the S-10 size, I’m betting sales would be double to triple what the C-twins currently achieve.”
            REALLY?
            You do focus groups and marketing research?
            Citation required.
            “Now think about that for a moment. A pickup truck that’s supposed to be street legal, now wider than ever trying to drive against facing traffic on roads barely 20 feet wide in some places. Many roads around where I live are like that and they carry some pretty heavy traffic. If two of these meet on that road, one or both may have to put wheels in the ditch to avoid the other.”
            REALLY?????
            —20 feet
            Umm…….. how wide is a Raptor?
            One can easily meet 2 commercial tractor trailer units on a 20 ft wide road. 8 feet 6 inches is the max width without “wide load” signage or pilot cars.

            — “Because some boys need the biggest toys to feel good about themselves.”
            Citation needed…..

            — “Most who buy it will never carry a dirty load in the bed or even any significant weight.”

            And why did Ford make the Raptor with a reduced payload?
            Same can be said for many pickups.
            You said you don’t hardcore offroad your Jeep……. how is that any different than not carrying a load?

            —- “It appeals to the bully in some people for just that reason. Where I live, I see a LOT of bullies driving pickups and trying to scare other people off the road.”

            So???????
            “It appeals to the bully in some people for just that reason.”
            That somehow is the Raptor’s fault?

            — “Then why does it have such a low cargo and towing capacity? They know it’s a toy and they’re pandering to the children who want their toys.”

            Actually… NO…..

            A truck’s springs (coil, leaf, airbag etc) exist to carry a load AND allow for wheel travel to absorb terrain irregularities.

            A race truck, motocross bike, hardcore woods bike etc. have basically enough spring “pre-load” to counter the weight of the machine with occupants and fuel. A certain amount of “sag” is allowable. Too much or not enough and the suspension in not in its “sweet spot”. A too stiff a spring will interfere with wheel travel through its arc. Too soft and it will not carry weight and “pack down”. It isn’t the “springs” job to dampen wheel travel. That is the shock’s job.
            A street legal pickup like the Raptor has to be able to have some capabilities over and above fuel and passengers.

            Why do empty 1 ton HD pickups drive so rough?
            Stiffer springs intended to carry weight do not flex to surface irregularities very well.
            “I bought it for its utility, not because it’s a toy.”
            Umm.. therefore the name SUV or sport and utility vehicle.
            A jeep used off-road is just as much a toy as a Raptor. Isn’t a convertible a toy too?

            —- “At one time that was true and the Wrangler is still the king of off-roading due to its smaller size and much tighter turning radius. It can take some trails a full sized truck can only dream of taking. But for the most part both vehicles are driven by people who want to look tough; it has nothing to do with capability any more.”

            Sounds like you are describing the Raptor to a tee.

            Posers buy vehicles that have actual abilities. Everyone can see through a Fiero with a Ferrari body kit. Ferrari sells due to performance even though most will never utilize it. The SAME applies to Raptor or Wrangler.

            Ridicule a product for not meeting its design purpose not for the end users who waste its abilities.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            “—“Had they gone back to the S-10 size, I’m betting sales would be double to triple what the C-twins currently achieve.”
            REALLY?
            You do focus groups and marketing research?
            70’s era sized small trucks will NOT sell in great numbers because people want more than that.”

            —- I would remind you of how popular they were back in the ’70s and ’80s, and not, as some would like to believe, as blinged-out custom rods. The vast majority of them were real, working, trucks.
            You know, there’s a reason Tesla has surprised the automotive industry just as there’s a reason Apple has dominated the personal electronics industry. “We’re supposed to be really good at this. That doesn’t mean we don’t listen to customers, but it’s hard for them to tell you what they want when they’ve never seen anything remotely like it.” “You can’t just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they’ll want something new.”
            ——————————–

            “Many roads around where I live are like that and they carry some pretty heavy traffic. If two of these meet on that road, one or both may have to put wheels in the ditch to avoid the other.”
            REALLY?????
            —20 feet
            Umm…….. how wide is a Raptor?
            One can easily meet 2 commercial tractor trailer units on a 20 ft wide road. 8 feet 6 inches is the max width without “wide load” signage or pilot cars.”
            —— Believe me, I was being very conservative. Remember, most drivers don’t like to rub doors with an oncoming vehicle. SOME streets around me are barely 16′ wide and even if you’re on a 20′ road and one of the two trucks is over the center line (it does happen after all, especially on a curve) the other truck has nowhere to go. I know, it happened to me while I owned that old F-150 and I ‘met’ a newer one just coming off a curve almost two feet over the line. Again, modern pickups are already too big, it’s time to make them sensibly sized again. And no, I’m not talking about anything but safety here. Today’s big trucks are among the clumsiest vehicles on the road and their drivers think they’re ‘all that’ for owning one.
            ——————-

            “You said you don’t hardcore offroad your Jeep……. how is that any different than not carrying a load?
            —- Read what I said again. It very definitely gets used for the purpose it was originally designed; its ability to go anywhere, any time. I have NEVER gotten stuck in my Jeep, not in mud, not on snow and not on ice. I can’t necessarily say that for every other vehicle I’ve driven. AND that Jeep does carry a load; it is a true utility vehicle. How is it different? By the simple fact that it gets used for its designed purpose. Not as a toy.
            ————

            You know, if you’re the REAL Lou_BC, this discussion is simply not like you. This sounds more like Denver Mike stealing your handle.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Vulpine – small trucks have their place just like big trucks. We have seen a great revival of small trucks. I doubt they will ever go back to 70’s era size in a BOF rear drive configuration. Perhaps front drive like the Strada.
            I got nothing against any size of truck. I’ve owned em all. Some of your comments were a bit too hyperbolic. That was all.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            Vulpine – small trucks have their place just like big trucks. We have seen a great revival of small trucks. I doubt they will ever go back to 70’s era size in a BOF rear drive configuration. Perhaps front drive like the Strada.
            ———————–

            To me it doesn’t matter if they’re BoF RWD… in fact, that’s a very dangerous layout when you have to drive on snow and ice with an unloaded bed. Even in my own case with my old Mitsubishi Sport in Denver, CO, I shoveled the sidewalk and driveway into the bed to add weight just so I could commute back and forth to work. As far as I’m concerned the Strada in an AWD configuration or FWD with selectable AWD would easily meet the need and FCA already has that platform available here in the Americas, though not yet in the US. That may change. I would point you to the Ram 700 as an example.

            My point is that overall, pickup trucks have simply grown too large in so many ways. I can look over the top of my ’97 Ranger but I can’t look over the roof of ANY modern mid-sized pickup even in 2WD models today except maybe the Frontier as the new model hasn’t hit the market yet of which I’m aware. I personally know several people who currently own crossover-type vehicles that absolutely want a true, compact, pickup truck and the Hyundai Santa Cruz may just be the foot in the door that these people are looking for. These people don’t want them for towing; they don’t want them for hauling heavy loads; they want them for carrying things that either won’t fit inside an enclosed body or are simply too dirty or aromatic to want to carry them inside. Prior to acquiring my Ranger I carried 6 bags of redwood mulch in the back of the Jeep so I know the Jeep could carry many of the loads I typically carry (but still not all of them) but I also know I and my wife have no complaints about the aroma where many people do in something like a Jeep Grand Cherokee, for instance. Moreover, the lower bed and lower sidewalls make loading and unloading a compact pickup far, far easier than a full- or even newer mid-sized versions. Both Ford and Chevy both have added ‘old lady’ steps to the back end of their trucks one way or another. That should show you right there just how grossly oversized they are.

            Are my comments hyperbolic (I assume you don’t mean mathematically)? Perhaps. But I’m trying to emphasize the point that the only reason these trucks are so large is not so much that buyers want them so big but that the OEMs chose to make them that large in order to avoid CAFE penalties and a lot of people have decided they like it. People who actually use them for their intended purpose? Considering more than 50% of all new pickup owners are buying 6-cylinder models they’re hardly operating them to full capacity. More often than not if it’s a V8 model or a big diesel it is being used professionally either by a rancher/farmer or by some commercial entity as an OTR hauler. I would note that just a few weeks ago I saw one towing a car hauling trailer with five vehicles in it and probably achieving better fuel economy by far than a Class 8 tractor rig with a three-car rack as well as that trailer. That particular truck, btw, was a Ram 3500.

            So yes, I do understand that there is some real need for those larger trucks, but it becomes very obvious that many owners would have liked something smaller and know full well that even the new ‘smaller’ trucks are still too large for a lot of potential owners. The Santa Cruz, the Ram 700, even the GM/Chevy Tornado would be nearly ideal for these people. I also think GM itself is beginning to realize that and is watching the progress of the Santa Cruz very closely.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      Vulpine, but they sell.

    • 0 avatar
      mason

      Vulpine, after next year you’ll be able to sell both vehicles and buy a new Wrangler pickup.

      One and done.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        I’m actually looking into that, Mason. I do hope they build one as an extended cab though; I don’t need a full back seat to carry what I need. The ’05 Gladiator concept is effectively the perfect choice for me.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Vulpine – you already said that the Colorado, Canyon, Tacoma et al are too big. The global Ranger is 9/10’s the standard F150. It is just as big as the other trucks I just mentioned.

          How big is a Wrangler Unlimited which will be close to that of a Wrangler pickup?
          body width – 73.7 inches
          length – 184.4
          I borrowed Drzhivago138 data:

          2012 compact Ranger SuperCab:
          OAL: 203″
          WB: 126″
          W: 71.3″
          H: 67.7″

          T6 Ranger SuperCab or Double Cab:
          OAL: 211″
          WB: 126.8″
          W: 72.8″
          H: 71.5″

          ’97 F-150 SuperCab/6.5′:
          OAL: 225.8″
          WB: 139″
          W: 79.5″
          H: 75.5″

          ’16 F-150 SuperCrew/5.5′ or SuperCab/6.5′:
          OAL: 231.9″
          WB: 145″
          W: 79.9″
          H: 77.2″

          Your Wrangler pickup is going to be just as big as the other “small” trucks in its class.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            “Your Wrangler pickup is going to be just as big as the other “small” trucks in its class.”

            —- Unfortunately I am well aware of that, though the extended-cab version would be about a foot shorter than the crew cab version. Yes, I do know it’s tall; with all that ground clearance it will bee tall. BUT it’s still smaller in overall dimensions than a full sized truck and marginally smaller than a modern mid-sized truck (I’m talking the 2016 versions, not even the 2012 versions.) The advantage of the Jeep’s off-road capabilities are the one thing that even makes me consider it as the Hyunday Santa Cruz is still notably smaller AND has apparently been green-lighted for production. So the question for me will be, do I settle for bigger than I want to get guaranteed ability or get the size I want that should be ‘good enough’?

            I don’t want big and I refuse to ‘settle’ for something simply because it’s all that’s available in most cases. I bought that old F-150 because of an urgent need for a truck now 5 years ago. Its advantages were it was cheap and it met the immediate need. In over 3 years of driving it, I only put 4,000 miles on it. I now have a ’97 Ranger and in less than six months I’ve put over 2,000 miles on it. I can’t say yet that the Ranger has carried as much as the F-150 over its three-plus years, but it’s carried almost as many full loads for the miles as that full sized truck did and I’ve got more loads waiting for better weather (it’s not a 4×4.)

  • avatar
    Carlson Fan

    Anyone know how much wider these beasts are than a regular F150? Boy that wheel stance looks wide when your following one. IMO still one of the stupidest things on the road but judging by how many of them I see running around in the Twin Cities/MN( with all our deserts and public lands to offroad on…LOL) Ford sure has no problem selling them.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      6 inches

      • 0 avatar
        Carlson Fan

        Thanks, looks like more than that but I’m sure a lot of it has to do with the wheels & tires.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          Yeah. It’s a cartoon truck. However, I still like this cartoon truck. I have a fondness for this and the Colorado ZR2 concept. I hope there is eventually a Bronco and Ranger SVT Raptor. I won’t buy a Bronco Raptor, but I’m in for an XL. Since Ford is going to have Apple CarPlay and Android Auto standard on everything now, I can get with base models.

          • 0 avatar
            Carlson Fan

            Your not the only one that likes them. Considering what they cost new I can’t believe how many of them I see driving around. My neighbor let me drive his a couple of years ago after he stuck a supercharger in it. Pretty cool to drive. The stock suspension is nothing short of amazing. Not what I’ve ever bought a truck for, but as they say different strokes for different folks. It’s all good.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Put it this way: I’m glad it exists. I can’t see myself driving around in one, but I still think it’s cool. Ford and Chevy lower trim level trucks are what I really like.

  • avatar
    Dan

    So much want. Even the V6 can’t take that away.

    Blown Coyote, where are you?

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    The Raptor has done well for Ford and you can see why.

    It is designed as an accessory for those who can afford to own and operate one.

    It has some incredible off road creed, but that is quite limited to quite open country.

    If Ford really want to make a good off road pickup, then I suggest Ford make a Ranger Mini Me Raptor, off course with a diesel so you have some endurance and better low down torque.

    If I was after one of these “hairdresser” type pickups I would like to see the Titan Warrior built so I could buy one of them. I’d say the Titan will carry a lot more weight, have better and more usable traction off road with the diesel than this Raptor.

    • 0 avatar
      hubcap

      Big Al

      Why the need to denigrate something you disagree with? The Raptor might not be your kind of off-road truck but it is indeed an off road truck and it performs the role it was designed for well.

      Would you take it on a multi-day/week/month overland excursion? I don’t know but if that was your usage, I’d figure you’d pick something more appropriate from jump.that aligns with the type of activities you want to perform.

      Take a SXS (side by side), a Wrangler, a Power Wagon, an Earth Roamer and an HEMTT. All designed to go off-road. All have their strengths and weaknesses. The Raptor and other off-road vehicles are no different.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        Simply disregard the BAFO. He thinks every off road situation, adventure or weekend activity is exactly like his. Yes trekking 1000’s of miles across The Outback’s forest, jungle, bushwhack, rock crawl.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        hubcap,
        I do believe if you read my comment it states (cut and paste)

        “The Raptor has done well for Ford and you can see why.

        It is designed as an accessory for those who can afford to own and operate one.

        It has some incredible off road creed, but that is quite limited to quite open country.”

        That to me is a really good comment, so I don’t know how you can state I denigrate the Raptor.

        I do make mention of the types who buy the Raptor. Yes I do believe they are mainly people with little clue on what vehicle to drive on the hardtop.

        A Raptor is not a vehicle I would buy for a pose at Lowes or taking the kids to school in.

        At least with the low payload Ram you will have a better ride and handling. The Raptor on the hardtop would be quite a terrible drive.

        • 0 avatar
          IHateCars

          “At least with the low payload Ram you will have a better ride and handling. The Raptor on the hardtop would be quite a terrible drive.”

          This statement alone proves that you’ve never driven one. It actually handles quite well on-road. Yes, there’s body roll in tight corners but what do you expect from a high performance pick-up with a long travel suspension.
          I’m on my second Raptor since 2010 and it’s my DD. I haul dirt bikes in the Summer and snowblowers and ski-doos in the Winter. We take it from Eastern Ontario Canada to Cape Cod/Boston every Summer….it’s comfortable and smooth on the highway and gobbles up a lot of cargo and people. It’s a very versatile vehicle on top of being a blast to drive on and off road.

          I’m going to take a look at the ’17s when come out but I’m still smitten with my V8 in my ’12 SCrew.

          So bite me.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            IHateCars,
            A vehicles we purchase are a compromise. The Raptor is a massive compromise vehicle so most who buy them can look cool.

            As I’ve mentioned the Raptor does well in open, fast operation. But the drawbacks this vehicle has far outweighs it’s positive attributes;

            1. Poor on road manners,

            2. Poor payload,

            3. Limited off road attributes, ie, the Raptor is quite narrow in where it shines off road,

            4. Poor FE,

            5. Poor long distance touring, restricted range of independent operation.

            6. Expensive due to the compromises required. The largest benefit for those who buy them is the facade it created for themselves. The Raptor is sells on image and percieved off road prowess.

            A 70 odd Series Landcruiser V8 diesel pickup is a far better vehicle for off roading and versatility. It is even far more durable than a Raptor, and I’m not even a Toyota phan.

          • 0 avatar
            mason

            IHateCars, don’t bother with the haters. Jealousy is an ugly and mostly incurable disease.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            IHateCars – nice to hear from a guy who actually owns a Raptor.

            Wizard of oz – did you actually read his comments?

          • 0 avatar
            Carilloskis

            I plan on getting a 17 but more likely an 18 or 19 for finacial reasons the only decision is whether or not to stay extended cab or go up to the crew cab. Every time I’m off roading in the mountains or driving in a city I’m glad that I don’t have the longer truck, but whenever I’m at the grocery store and find that someone has parked in a way that i cannot get the rear suicide doors opened and access the shopping cart at the same time or when i have people and have to let the rear passenger get out come towards the front as they become trapped between the doors.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @BigAl – “I’d say the Titan will carry a lot more weight, have better and more usable traction off road with the diesel than this Raptor.”

      The previous crew Raptor was around 1100-1200 lbs cargo IIRC. Titan XD is 1500-2000lbs.

      The Titan XD is too heavy as the foundation for an off-road long distance tool. It has a 3/4 or 1 ton tare weight with none of the cargo capacity. It doesn’t even have full floating axles.

      Every truck has strong and weak points. The Raptor isn’t meant to carry heavy but then again, neither is the Titan XD.

      The Titan Warrior is a concept.

      If it is built it will compete directly with the Power Wagon. Both have similar capacities. The Power Wagon cries out for a light weight diesel.

    • 0 avatar
      daver277

      These Rapters are bought by posers that somehow have a good credit rating in spite of obviously poor judgement.

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