By on December 17, 2015

 

The email had all the stopping power of a fart at an office Christmas party.

“TEAM JAPSPEED DRIFT TEAM TO RETURN TO AUTOSPORT INTERNATIONAL”

“Were they returning from 1943?” I wondered. How could any team be named “Jap” anything in 2015?

As it turns out, there are a lot of automotive-related companies and events with the prefix Jap. JapFest, JapAuto, JapSpeed. JustJap. Uh, huh.

I mean, “Jap” is still a bad word, right?

Initially, I was reminded that automotive subculture skews right — it always has. The archetype for a  “car guy” is someone who values horsepower over regulation, personal rights over corporate responsibility, low taxes and less interference from anyone stepping between them and their possessions. Those are all fairly base, sanitary conservative principles.

Those qualities are hardly universal truths in the automotive universe, but rather an observation I’ve made after years writing about cars and talking to the people who own them.

Now, I’m not saying that “conservative” is synonymous with “racist” — far from it. But at more than just a few meetups, rallies and high school shop classes, the word “Jap” or “WOP” was thrown around with less regard than a metric wrench. Hell, the word “wop” has even been dropped by members of auto C-suites, too.

These are people for whom political correctness doesn’t constitute progress.

But the word “jap” is used far more frequently overseas in places such as Australia, New Zealand and Europe — presumably places with less familiarity with Japanese-American internment camps than Donald Trump voters. But I don’t live in those places, so I don’t know.

And I’m not Japanese — not even close.

I’m also not the type of person that gets offended for other people either, but I have no problem speaking my mind.

Which made me wonder how auto companies were getting away with “Jap” in advertising and billboards, names and festivals. The word to me is highly insensitive, much in the same way “colored” is not the same thing as “people of color” — although both “colored” and “people of color” are vague, lazy and mostly insulting, in my opinion.

I called the Japanese American Civil League, in Washington, D.C., to ask their take on the word and its current usage. The organization’s long, complex history (put eloquently by its first National Secretary Mike Masaoka, which is worth a lunch-time read here) led me to believe that these people would have a nuanced understanding of why the word “Jap” was still around.

“Is ‘jap’ still a bad word? I really don’t know,” I asked.

Silence.

“Can we call you back at a later date?” the woman replied.

End phone call

Unfazed, I wrote to the Japanese Consulate in America:

Growing up in America, it was my understanding that the word ‘Jap’ was derogatory and offensive to Japanese people, but I don’t know about the word’s reception in Japan — or elsewhere.

Can you help me understand please?

No response for two days.

I looked all over to find similarities. The NFL still has a team called the Redskins. The Arc used to stand for the “National Associated for Retarded Citizens,” but now only goes by the acronym. The NAACP is acceptable in all references for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, although the organization doesn’t really shy away from the word colored:

“Times change and terms change. Racial designations go through phases; at one time Negro was accepted, at an earlier time colored and so on. This organization has been in existence for 80 years and the initials NAACP are part of the American vocabulary, firmly embedded in the national consciousness, and we feel it would not be to our benefit to change our name.”

Maybe times have changed. Maybe “jap” actually means “jap,” but people have forgotten why “jap” was ever bad to begin with. I don’t like the idea of that, but I don’t get my way all the time either.

That prompted a call to Japautoparts, a Miami-based auto parts supplier.

“What exactly are you asking?” said Peter, who said he’s worked on and off at the shop over the years.

“Why do you guys have ‘jap’ in your name?” I said.

“The current owners bought the store from the last owners several years ago. The store has been around since the 1980s and it’s a known business around here. I guess they didn’t want to change the name. ” Peter said. Their corporate name isn’t Japauto anyway, he added.

Just because its tradition doesn’t mean it isn’t stupid, I thought.

“Has anyone said anything about changing the name?” I asked.

“Yeah, the employees wondered if we should change it a while back,” he said. Because of the connotation of the word jap, he added.

“Nothing changed?” I said.

“No. People who come here know what Japautoparts means, we supply Japanese auto parts,” Peter said. “We don’t mean it in a derogatory way.”

“Thanks for your time,” I said.

Hardly satisfactory, but again, I don’t want to be offended for other people.

Then, a response:

In general, Japanese people are aware of the offensive connotations of the word ‘Jap’ in some contexts, as would be expected. On the other hand, in the Japanese language it is fairly common to abbreviate words and/or combine shortened words to form a new term, mostly for simplicity. So in this sort of context, as with the usages you described, it would not necessarily be unusual or considered offensive.

Bruce Powley
Consulate General of Japan Denver

To paraphrase: The word “jap” is offensive, except when it isn’t.

Or rather, my high school auto teacher cursing at my Subaru GL’s brakes during shop day: Wholly offensive and inappropriate. Japautoparts, Japfest and JapFest: Maybe not.

Personally, I don’t think I’ll ever use “jap” as an abbreviation for the word “Japanese” in the same way I’ll never use a long list of other words that mean other things.

But for me and other people who still cringe at the word in an email, I guess it’s good to clear the air.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

131 Comments on “Why Automotive Circles Still Use The Word ‘Jap’ – And That Might Be OK...”


  • avatar
    strafer

    I think Brits and Aussies used “Nip” instead of “Jap” so guessing jap is not considered a racist term.
    Jap doesn’t sound offensive anyway, just shortened Japan.
    Chink, gook, slope, etc are the terms to avoid.

    • 0 avatar
      qfrog

      Isn’t that just a shortened version of Nippon or Nihon?

    • 0 avatar
      MrGreenMan

      Koreans use “Nip” when they’re angry about cultural genocide at the hands of their cousins. Now, I’ve heard that word said as a curse from the mouth of Koreans, but I’m not at a UAW rally in Flint in 1990 hearing “Jap” used as a pejorative.

      Mr. Cole is stretching in trying to invent some Roosevelt-Democrat guilt and put it on the United States as a whole for WWII internment camps. (And Mr. Roosevelt interned Germans, as Mr. Wilson did; and he shot a few with US citizenship for collaboration. And Mr. Roosevelt interned Italians.) Really, it’s been an issue for Hawaii, and Hawaii has tried to make this a national thing, but, unless you’re competing for the most esoteric victimhood championship award, nobody in America thinks about this, and we all really liked George Takai.

      It’s as strange to me to try to reach back to internment camps and apply it to motivate actions today as it is to reach back to know that my fair-haired great uncle was killed by a Japanese sniper while at a camp at night during our island hopping adventure and to use that as a reason to hate Hondas. To know another uncle was at the Battle of the Bulge and faced down some pretty tough Germans doesn’t affect me about German manufacturing much, either.

      The Japanese are a great bunch of people, and the friendship that grew out of the post-WWII relationship has been good for us and them, and the competition has made us better. This all reminds me of the “Japamation” phase, before everybody called it anime – you weren’t trying to slam a group; you really liked the Dirty Pair.

      • 0 avatar
        VolandoBajo

        Re: the supposed evil wartime tactics of the Japanese. My second grade teacher was a retired former commando who had served in both WW II and the Korean War. In order to setttle down us rowdy young kids, especially boys, before the ADD/ADHD label became popular, he would promise to answer questions about the two wars for a few minutes, if we all got in our seats promptly when the class was called to order.

        That, plus the ability to nail a kid in the back of a head with a soft eraser from across the room when the kid deliberately pretended to be unaware that the teacher had called for people to sit down, managed to keep us fairly orderly. Didn’t do any damage to the kid at all except to his ego, but I would have hated to have him flip a knife at me at twenty yards.

        Anyway, one day the question from the floor was “Is it true that the Japanese (or Japs) were much more cruel than we were, and that they tortured soldiers?”.

        With a great mixture of courage and honesty, Mr. Braun’s reply was that both sides did that in those wars, and in most wars, because you would do all that you could to try to save your life and the lives of those on your side. The only difference was that we publicized the fact that the Japanese did it, but downplayed the fact that the US did it in times of war.

        Besides his honesty about the whole thing, from other comments he made, I gathered that he respected the Japanese for being good warriors.

        As the Japanese saying, which I also heard in the Marine Corps, goes, a good (or strong) enemy is better than a worthless friend. A good enemy will make you sharp, but a worthless friend can get you killed.

        Those two wars in particular, especially in the Pacific theater for WW II, were unfortunate, but there was really no reason for hatred to continue after the war was over, and in large part, there wasn’t. Most of the old timers who fought in those wars did not hate their former enemies. It was more likely to come from some REMF…rear echelon MF, for those of you who don’t know the term.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    In the UK, the front of a car has a “bonnet”, the rear of the car has a “boot”, and “Paki” is a racial slur for a Pakistani.

    In the US, a bonnet is worn by the girl on the margarine container, a boot goes on your foot, and nobody knows what a Paki is. English contains a wide variety of dialects, so the search for a universal standard is pointless.

    In the US and Canada, Jap is a racial slur that is analogous to nigger and kike, so you should avoid using it.

    As for its use elsewhere, I can tell you with little reservation that Australia must be the most racist country in the Anglo-Saxon world (they could give the Republicans here a run for their money), so I wouldn’t look to the Aussies as a role model. I wasn’t the least surprised when I saw an advertisement there for a wrecking yard called “Jap Crap;” that was nothing compared to the ways that they talk about aboriginals.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      I know Pakistani people in the US who call -themselves- Pakis, and use the term in conversation, like “A Paki party.”

    • 0 avatar
      thornmark

      >>In the US and Canada, Jap is a racial slur that is analogous to nigger and kike, so you should avoid using it.<<

      Not really. "Jap" is more akin "Kraut" for Germans, neither group cares enough to be offended so they aren’t.

      >>Australia must be the most racist country in the Anglo-Saxon world (they could give the Republicans here a run for their money<<

      Dems call people "racists" when they have lost the argument, which is most of the time.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Yeah, I can’t imagine why anyone would think of your party as being racist when you don’t want minorities to vote and your panties get moist when talk turns to deporting brown people and shutting down the borders to those who aren’t Judeo-Christian.

        • 0 avatar
          thornmark

          You really do think in cliches. There is no evidence the GOP doesn’t want minorities to vote or they want to deport brown people and shut down the borders to all but Judeo-Christians.

          THe GOP, like most Americans, want the borders secured, voter ID and immigration laws enforced. All have majority support.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            If your cronies cared about voter ID, then they would make sure that it was easy, cheap and convenient for those who don’t have IDs to get them.

            But of course, you don’t care about that at all. This is just a poll tax under a different name.

          • 0 avatar
            ClutchCarGo

            “Dems call people “racists” when they have lost the argument, which is most of the time.”

            And you accuse PCH101 of thinking in cliches?

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I’m sure that the irony is lost on poor ol’ thorn bush.

      • 0 avatar
        stuki

        ‘ “Jap” is more akin “Kraut” for Germans, neither group cares enough to be offended so they aren’t. ‘

        Context has everything to do with it. Being offended by a possible slur, requires some degree of self doubt and insecurity. By now, everyone, everywhere are aware that anything associated with either German or Japanese is simply short for best of the best. And the Germans and Japanese know it themselves, as well, hence aren’t in the slightest offended by it. Immediately post WW2, when both nations were beaten and their populations associated with Nazis and Suicide bombers, things were a bit different.

        Being called a N….., wouldn’t offend anyone, either, if it was universally understood that a N….. something was something that everyone aspired to own and/or be like.

    • 0 avatar
      amarks

      There’s a (likely apocryphal) tale about two college students from Boston taking a semester abroad in London. Now, in Boston, a “packie” is a slang term for a liquor store, from “package store”. However, when one of these students turned to the other and said that they “really need to hit a packie before going out later” while on the Tube, three young Pakistani men in the same car as them did not understand the alternate usage and were very, very upset.

  • avatar
    pleiter

    I suspect it culturally goes deeper than that. My team works with JAXA, the Japanese Space Agency. At the tactical level, the Japanese peers try to never say the word ‘no’. They will say so-and-so is difficult, or a problem, or some other nuanced negative connotation. But not a straight-up NO. It perhaps is fair to say that they are now conflict-adverse, at least inside the team. So, the premise of your question may never get a straight-up answer. So listen carefully to the connotations of what they do say. Also, bear in mind that, in the past, Japanese like to govern by consensus, not by edict or fiat. Another reason to believe this will be a hundred year puzzle.

  • avatar
    apagios

    We actually had this same debate on a Ducati forum many years ago. People were using ‘Japbike’ simply as a categorical abbreviation for all four major Japanese motorcycle brands.

    Many of us had no idea it was a derogatory term!

    I’m only 33, my grandparents never ever used the word, nor mentioned it. I had absolutely no idea it was ever used as a slur until one of the older guys on the Ducati forum pointed out the origins. Many of us on the forum were too young to have ever heard it used in a derogatory manner.

    Perhaps its naive to suggest I took this as progress in our society? That in general people moved past using a term in a derogatory fashion, and a couple generations later, kids have no idea it was ever a bad word.

    In terms of something like ‘JapAutoParts’, it really does just seem to be an abbreviation for JapaneseAutoParts.

    IMHO if the term is used in promotion of auto industry or sports, I would always presume the intent of the term was an abbreviation for “Japan” or “Japanese” and not that an organization would promote themselves with an intentionally derogatory term.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “Many of us had no idea it was a derogatory term!”

      I’m actually with you on this. I’m 30 and didn’t know the term was considered a slur until I started reading automotive blogs around 2005. I also don’t think I’ve ever seen it used in a nonvehicular context.

      • 0 avatar
        apagios

        along those same lines, I just had to consult Urban Dictionary to find out what the heck ‘wop’ meant!

        None of my friends or family have ever used that term.

        Shouldn’t that be a sign of societal progress when a slur drops out of use and isn’t passed on to future generations?

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          Ha-ha. The only reason I knew “wop” was bad is becuase of its use in a “Boy Meets World” TV episode I saw in the 1990s.

          I also didn’t know the Irish were ever discriminated against until I was in high school.

          Growing up, I pretty much only knew about discrimination against Jewish and black people (and in my mind that was all WAY in the past). The internet has opened me up to a whole new world of racism and prejudice.

          Now, calling people/things “gay” or some variation? That was all the rage.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            To this moment, right now, I dunno what WOP means.

            I did read the term Jap in books, and always heard people say Jap crap, so I knew it was derogatory.

            Reminds me of how much I got in trouble when I called my dad a pu**y about age 8, because I had heard the kid across the street call another kid that word, and had no idea what it meant.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            WOP = With Out Papers, referring to the illegal immigration of Italians escaping the poverty and crime back then.

        • 0 avatar
          wstarvingteacher

          My understanding is that WOP means without papers. It originated at Ellis Island for those arriving without papers and they were predominately Italians.

          At 72 I have heard a lot of derogatory slang and just don’t use it. I also don’t generalize normally such as some of our expert commenters feel the need to do. I would no more categorize republicans as racist etc than I would democrats as leeches.

          It would be real nice if TTAC could scrub the political statements in the story (trump voters) and in the comments. A statement for either side alienates half your readers and I sure don’t come here to read your opinions on things nonautomotive.

          Thats my whole $.02 worth.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            The “without papers” story is a myth:

            Origin of wop:

            Italian dialect **guappo** swaggerer, tough, from Spanish **guapo**, probably from Middle French dialect vape, wape weak, insipid, from Latin vappa wine gone flat

            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wop

          • 0 avatar
            wstarvingteacher

            @PCH 101: You turned out to be more correct than I. Guappo is sicilian or napolition for swaggering thug.

            Had always heard about the without papers origin but couldn’t remember where it was from.

            I found this: In his autobiography The Good Life, the singer Tony Bennett says many illiterate immigrants arrived without the right documents…..WOP. However the name started in 1908 and no papers were required till 1916.

  • avatar

    United Negro College Fund.

    And as half one, I would rather someone call me “part-Oriental” rather than “part-Asian” as, imo, Oriental is more region-specific to where my ancestry is from. Not India, not Arabia, not Siberia; the Far East.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Classically the Orient was reference to the Middle East, as I recall. Evidently officially it can also refer to everything east of Europe, including the Middle and Far Easts.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient

      …and that was another, useless fact.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        I enjoy hearing the words Oriental and Occidental. They make me think of a very formal embassy function.

        My grandparents like to say “the Orientals” and “the I-talians.” My friend (Mexican) has parents who call ALL Asian people no matter what sort “chinitos,” or “little Chinese.”

        “Mira, Chinitos!” Cracks me up.

  • avatar
    S2k Chris

    Intent. That’s what it comes down to. The most complimentary word in the world can be made derogatory through intent of use, and best friends use slurs at each other (especially in the black/AA culture), all the time. I think the world would be a lot better off if people would get upset at actual intent, and not just at innocent misuse.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    “at one time Negro was accepted, at an earlier time colored and so on.”

    It’s interesting, this part. I thought colored was a much more recent term than Negro. You’d still see signs saying colored in the 1960’s. Negro seems much, much older.

    • 0 avatar
      Kyree S. Williams

      They’re both older than you think (Negro dates back to the 1400s), but colored is indeed newer. They both, however, fell out of use entirely in about the 1960s, though by the early 1950s, colored might have become more prevalent, due to its proximity to “nigger”.

      What I don’t get is the whole “black” versus “African-American” thing. I’m fine with just being called black, quite frankly.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        In a country that takes some pride in hyphenation, it can be alienating to not have a place of national origin to call ones own. Since the descendants of slaves don’t really know their origins, African-American will have to do.

        Of course, this is meaningful to some people and not to others.

        • 0 avatar
          Kyree S. Williams

          Fair enough. I’m black. I don’t mind being called African-American, but it isn’t particularly meaningful to me…especially since Africa is a big place, and the only ancestry I know is my minimal white ancestry (mostly Irish and English, some Scottish) and Native American (Choctaw). Of course, the Western Europeans mixed and mingled, too, by design.

          I would be interested in finding out which places in Africa I come from, and tracing my family lineage. My paternal grandfather is a wealthy deadbeat (see the “George Lopez” sitcom for pretty much an exact scenario, except he isn’t dead), so that’s a quarter of the family I don’t know anything about. But maybe it’ll turn out that Oprah and I are cousins…and she can give me one of those zero-mile 2004 Pontiac G6 units I know she’s got stored up somewhere (I knew I could bring this discussion back to cars).

          • 0 avatar
            wstarvingteacher

            Kyree: Recommend you check in to the ancestry or nat geo DNA tests. They do a pretty good good breakdown and I think you will find info on the parts of Africa your ancestors probably hailed from.

  • avatar
    carlisimo

    It’s geographically dependent. Here in California, there are a lot of people still around who suffered from its worst usage. There are also plenty of other Asians who had it mistakenly thrown at them. Point is, it’s a bad word here so don’t say it out loud if you visit. And that’s why I’ll never use it either, and it’s jarring (but understandable) when I see it used online by people from places where it wasn’t used as a bad word.

    Because of its history, I wouldn’t really expect the Japanese consulate to have a problem with it. It was specifically applied to Japanese-Americans, and I’d expect a lot of Japanese consulate staff to be from Japan itself.

    And it doesn’t really matter where the word comes from; tons of bad words have innocent etymologies. But meanings change, and once a word becomes an insult you’re going to have a tough time using it on someone and telling them, “Oh no, I meant it in the good way!”

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Washington state here (and in the city with the most people of Japanese ancestry). Let me echo carlisimo’s comment in its entirety. There’s never been any doubt in my mind that “Jap” was offensive and derogatory — more or less on the same level as “chink” or “spic” — and I’m always puzzled and dismayed when people from other parts of the country use it freely.

  • avatar
    TonyP

    A word is usually only offensive if it’s context is offensive.

  • avatar
    seth1065

    Well you could have just asked a writer on your staff for his thoughts, he has in the past and now again lives in Japan, he even write a series of articles about a certain van getting japanese plates. For me Jap is not kosher as I worked for a Japanese company for a number of years and they said they took it as a slur so that was good enough for me.

  • avatar
    Drzhivago138

    I think if I called myself “Nordic,” that would be accurate but have even more unfortunate implications than “Jap” to a Japanese.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      Would it?

      I’d assume you were probably blond, tall, and have blue eyes.

      BUT YER SHORT.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      What implications?

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        It would be similar to someone who described himself as being “Aryan.”

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Ah. Did you know the whole concept of such a “race” stemmed from the fantasies of Helena Blavatsky and Guido von List?

          “Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (Russian: Еле́на Петро́вна Блава́тская, Yelena Petrovna Blavatskaya; 12 August [O.S. 31 July] 1831 – 8 May 1891) was an occultist, spirit medium, and author who co-founded the Theosophical Society in 1875. She gained an international following as the leading theoretician of Theosophy, the esoteric movement that the Society promoted.”

          “Blavatsky’s Theosophical ideas were a form of occultism, a current of thought within Western esotericism which emphasized the idea of an ancient and superior wisdom that had been found in pre-Christian societies but which was absent from the doctrines of established Christianity.[240] Blavatsky stated that the Theosophical teachings were passed on to her by adepts, who lived in various parts of the world.”

          “Fundamentally, the underlying concept behind Blavatsky’s Theosophy was that there was an “ancient wisdom religion” which had once been found across the world, and which was known to various ancient figures, such as the Greek philosopher Plato and the ancient Hindu sages.[241] Blavatsky connected this ancient wisdom religion to Hermetic philosophy, a worldview in which everything in the universe is identified as an emanation from a Godhead.”

          “In The Secret Doctrine, Blavatsky articulated the belief that in the beginning of time there was absolute nothingness. This primordial essence then separated itself into seven Rays, which were also intelligent beings known as the Dhyan Chohans; these Seven Rays then created the universe using an energy called Fohat.[254][255] The Earth was created and underwent seven Rounds, in each of which different living beings were created.[254]

          The fifth Root Race to emerge was the Aryans, and was found across the world at the time she was writing.[256][261] She believed that the fifth Race would come to be replaced by the sixth, which would be heralded by the arrival of Maitreya, a figure from Mahayana Buddhist mythology.[262] She further believed that humanity would eventually develop into the final, seventh Root Race.[256][263] Lachman suggested that by reading Blavatsky’s cosmogonical claims as a literal account of history, “we may be doing it a disservice.”[256] He instead suggested that it could be read as Blavatsky’s attempt to formulate “a new myth for the modern age, or as a huge, fantastic science fiction story”.[256]”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Blavatsky

          “Guido Karl Anton List, better known as Guido von List (October 5, 1848 – May 17, 1919) was an Austrian occultist, journalist, playwright, and novelist. He expounded a Neo-Pagan new religious movement known as Wotanism, which he claimed was the revival of the religion of the ancient German race, and which included an inner set of Ariosophical teachings that he termed Armanism.

          Born to a wealthy middle-class family in Vienna, List claimed that he abandoned his family’s Roman Catholic faith in childhood, instead devoting himself to the pre-Christian god Wotan.”

          “Much of List’s understanding of the ancient past was based not on empirical research into historical, archaeological, and folkloric sources, but rather on ideas that he claimed to have received as a result of clairvoyant illumination.[34] Later writer Richard Rudgley thus characterised List’s understanding of the “pagan past” as an “imaginative reconstruction”.[35] List’s Wotanism was constructed largely on the Prose Edda and the Poetic Edda, two Old Norse textual sources which had been composed in Iceland during the late Middle Ages; he nevertheless believed that they accurately reflected the belief systems of Germany, having been authored by “Wotanist” refugees fleeing Christianity.”

          “According to the historian Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, 1902 marked “a fundamental change in the character of [List’s] ideas: occult ideas now entered his fantasy of the ancient Germanic faith.”[15] This began when he received an operation to remove a cataract from his eye, after which he was left blind for eleven months. During this period of rest and recuperation, he contemplated questions surrounding the origins of the German language and the use of runes.[16] He subsequently produced a manuscript detailing what he deemed to be a proto-language of the Aryan race, in which he claimed that occult insight had enabled him to interpret the letters and sounds of both runes and emblems and glyphs found on ancient inscriptions.[15] Terming it “a monumental pseudo-science”, Goodrick-Clarke also noted that it constituted “the masterpiece of his occult-nationalist researches”.[15] List sent a copy to the Imperial Academy of Science in Vienna, but they declined to publish it”

          “”List believed that the degradation of modern Western society was as a result of a conspiracy orchestrated by a secret organisation known as the Great International Party,[57] an idea influenced by anti-semitic conspiracy theories.[58] Adopting a millenarianist perspective, he believed in the imminent defeat of this enemy and the establishment of a better future for the Ario-German race.[59] In April 1915 he welcomed the start of World War I as a conflict that would bring about the defeat of Germany’s enemies and the establishment of a golden age for the new Ario-German Empire.[60] Toward the war’s end, he believed that the German war dead would be reincarnated as a generation who would push through with a national revolution and establish this new, better society.[61] For List, this better future would be intricately connected to the ancient past, reflecting his belief in the cyclical nature of time, something which he had adopted both from a reading of Norse mythology and from Theosophy.[62] Reflecting his monarchist beliefs, he envisioned this future state as being governed by the House of Hapsburg,[63] with a revived feudal system of land ownership being introduced through which land would be inherited by a man’s eldest son.[64] In List’s opinion, this new empire would be highly hierarchical, with non-Aryans being subjugated under the Aryan population and opportunities for education and jobs in public service being restricted to those deemed racially pure.[65] He envisioned this Empire following the Wotanic religion which he promoted.[31]””

          Which is exactly what the later SS would seek to create.

          “the Thule Society, a lineage can be drawn between the List Society and the early Nazi Party as it was established after World War I.[24] Goodrick-Clarke opined that “this channel of influence certainly carries most weight in any assessment of List’s historical importance.”[24] The scholar of Western esotericism Joscelyn Godwin expressed the view that List was one of the “three godfathers of Nazi Thule” alongside Liebenfels and Rudolf von Sebottendorff,[67] while Rudgley went further by claiming that List’s vision of a future German Empire constituted “a blueprint for the Nazi regime”.[68]”

          Ideas, grounded in the delusions of one man, later inherited by the NSDAP. This was the big lie long before Goebbels was quoted talking about one.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_von_List

          Another interesting parallel between them was their mutual belief in Christianity stamping out the ancient knowledge only they were able to miraculously be given in clairvoyance.

          Hmmmmm…

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        I have never heard Nordic as a racial term like that.

        • 0 avatar
          S2k Chris

          In fact, isn’t it the opposite? I always hear Nordic as a prefix to words like “beauty” or “blonde”, giving me the image of some tall, gorgeous, blue-eyed blonde-haired beauty.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Typically refers to people from the Nordic countries however…

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries

          “The Nordic race was one of the putative sub-races into which some late 19th to mid 20th century anthropologists divided the Caucasian race.”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_race

        • 0 avatar
          bumpy ii

          It’s sometimes used by neo-Nazi/white supremacist types as a dog-whistle term when they’re not speaking privately.

      • 0 avatar
        LuciferV8

        I’d imagine the worst implications would be a connection to historical atrocities linked to Scandinavia, like ABBA.

    • 0 avatar
      VW16v

      For the most part. People that are affected by the word Jap usually have issues with people outside of there own race. Meaning the nanny people are usually the ones with pent up racist views.

  • avatar
    sproc

    Closely related, the consensus on “rice” is still not OK, right? I remember the terms “riced” or “rice burner” could be used for the longest time as a put-down, a compliment, or even one of endearment depending on the circumstances. I used it all the time as a huge fan of Japanese cars and sport compact tuning. Honestly, I miss it some, but respect that many consider it offensive.

    • 0 avatar
      Preludacris

      To me, it’s only derogatory when applied in a negative way to a car that might not deserve it. But a car that has been modified in distasteful and useless ways is a ricer, whether it’s a Civic or a Sunfire. My Prelude is a modified 4-cyl fwd Japanese car; if you called it a ricer I’d probably take it in the endearing sense unless your intonation says you’re offended by its existence.

      But I am also a huge fan of Japanese cars, and maybe too young to know the big picture. I thought the term had actually got much less offensive, not more so.

  • avatar
    Detroit-Iron

    This article is insane. The word itself is just an abbreviated version of “Japanese” and and the businesses that are using the word clearly mean it as something that is positive. As Louis CK pointed out, the word “Jew” is both the correct word and a slur, depending on how you say it.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      Let me guess — you’re a white guy.

      • 0 avatar
        Detroit-Iron

        Let me guess, you’re a white guy.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          You’d be wrong about that.

          • 0 avatar
            LuciferV8

            I’m genuinely curious, what exactly are you then?

            What perspective does one of most prolific liberal commenters on TTAC hail from?

          • 0 avatar
            RideHeight

            “one of most prolific liberal commenters on TTAC.”

            Not just prolific. BAFO’s prolific.

            Pch101 is the most disciplined, erudite and lucid of the frequent commenters here.

            Shame he’s Irish.

          • 0 avatar
            RHD

            “What AH you, Porto Rican? What AH you, Filipino? What AH you…”

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I’ll admit that I do like the occasional Guinness.

          • 0 avatar
            VolandoBajo

            @pch101 RideHeight says you are the most disciplined, erudite and lucid commenters on here?

            Would that be because you limit your ad hominem slanders to only those you deem to be unworthy of a reply and/or don’t have a good reply to come back with, or would that be because you and RideHeight might be one and the same person?

            Birds of a feather, and such…a matching pair of sock puppets.

            Either that, or RideHeight hasn’t bothered to read your descent into ad hominem attacks whenever you are challenged by someone presenting facts and/or a logical argument.

            That comment is akin to calling Hillary a leading expert on email security with extensive experience in dealing with email breaches. If you can’t dazzle ’em with brilliance, baffle ’em with BS.

            Got to live Hill. She didn’t fail to secure her donor list, old Bernie stole the data that was accessible to the public due to her poor computer server security practices. But people will still excuse her behavior by saying, like she did about the four dead in Benghazi, “what difference does it make?”.

  • avatar
    JMII

    As someone who took his ’89 Prelude Si to the local “Japshop” http://www.japshopinc.com/ I always thought it was short for Japanese since they only worked on Hondas back then. However maybe to avoid people thinking it was an insult the company is actually J.A.P. which stands for Japanese Auto Professionals.

    I have had a few people comment that I have a “jap car” before and I knew by the tone of their voice they meant it as insult – basically implying since I didn’t have a Mustang, Camaro, Challenger or other home grown American muscle car I was somehow selling out the home team. Oddly these same people own Sony TVs and that (apparently) is perfectly acceptable.

  • avatar
    Hummer

    The real racists are those that continually point out harmless instances and call it racist. It’s not, we have so many groups that are inciting racist hatred that tensions that haven’t existed in over 50 years are becoming more and more present. As a society we would be healthier if we would openly condemn and charge(if appropriate) these individuals that are inciting these incidences, we could start with every single news agency in America for giving these sick people a median to spread this hatred.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      Let me guess — you’re a white guy.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Let me guess you see race in everything that upsets you.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          No, I find it amusing that a white guy in the South has the gall to lecture anyone about racism.

          • 0 avatar
            LuciferV8

            I find it amusing that there are white people still dumb enough to fall for that canard.

            Here’s something to think about: I have nothing to apologize for, and more and more folks are joining the ranks of the unapologetic everyday.

            How does that sound?

            PS: Oh yes, “racism” does matter to me very much, insofar as it has been one of the most effective rhetorical bludgeons wielded by the left for the past 30 years.
            I understand quite clearly that I will always be a “racist”, no matter what I do or say, and I frankly do not care. What I really wanted to know is not how you feel about lil’ ol’ me, but how you feel about the growing number of folks who have embraced my way of thinking.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I find it predictable that a white conservative thinks that racism doesn’t matter.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            What does my race or the area I live in have to do with anything?
            In what fantasy world does southern United States consist of only one race of people? I live in one of the most diverse states I’ve ever been in, which includes well over half of the states, if you want to see an area that lacks diversity I point no further than Pennsylvania, which certainly cannot be considered “southern”.

            I find it predictable that a liberal sees race first and foremost as the crux of all issues.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            If you genuinely care about avoiding racist language, then there is one basic test: It is whether the group to which you are referring takes issue to your use of the terminology.

            If you choose to disrespect the wishes of those to whom you are referring, then you are being a classic bigot. It isn’t an accident that racists make a point of using slurs — the terms are used to both dehumanize and to remove their power. A group that doesn’t even have the power to control what they are called is necessarily weaker as a result, and the bigots intuitively understand this.

          • 0 avatar
            Loser

            So a “white guy in the South” is automatically racist? Wow, look in the mirror.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            No, a white guy in the South should be asking others what they would liked to be called instead of pretending that it’s his decision to make.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Well if they reside in America, then they are an American until they tell me to say otherwise, it’s that simple, there’s no need to make it difficult.

            What does a white southern individual have anything to do with that? In what world is the south a racist free for all where anything you keep insinuating actually happens?

          • 0 avatar
            Detroit-Iron

            Aaron Cole does not sound like a Japanese name.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            There are a lot of good things about Southern culture. Clinging to that Civil War rag and revising history to pretend that the Civil War wasn’t a defense of slavery aren’t among them.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            You have to realize how bigoted and ignorant you sound by constantly referring to the southern United States when you talk about race? Pretending the civil war is still raging and hanging onto it as if everyone in the south or the Republican Party partook in the war is a disservice to every American. We (Americans(Children))should be taught to understand why past mistakes were wrong, not taught to feel that an imbalance exists and must be paid off.

            Can we have one generation of people that don’t see color? Can we not continue sparking racial tensions that create racists by the truckload?

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            “Pretending the civil war is still raging and hanging onto it as if everyone in the south or the Republican Party partook in the war is a disservice to every American.”

            You should save that advice for those who spend their time waving Civil War battle flags around while talking about “states rights.”

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            I didn’t say they were free of blame, but using the “they’re doing it so why can’t I?” excuse is a bit childish.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            But you don’t write posts saying that white dudes with Confederate battle flags who babble on about states rights should give it a rest. So you’re inconsistent at best and a concern troll at worst.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Difference is, there aren’t many of the stereotypical racists left in the southern US that you believe hide in bushes off of the back roads of Georgia. The reverse racism you ignore so fervently is spreading like wildfire on the other hand.

    • 0 avatar
      carlisimo

      It’s only been a little over 30 years since Vincent Chin was murdered in Detroit after being mistaken for Japanese. Asian-Americans in their mid-20s to 40s grew up being told to be careful because of that case, and that’s why it’s still on our minds. Once our generation is gone, the word might not bother anyone anymore.

  • avatar
    bumpy ii

    And this is about the point where it’s time to post the cover of Action Comics #58:
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/comichut/Action58001.jpg

    I once had an uncomfortable conversation with my brother explaining why “japan-imation” was okay and “jap-animation” wasn’t. Fortunately, everyone decided to just call it anime instead.

  • avatar
    LuciferV8

    This whole thing is a bucket of lullz.

    The only folks who actually care about this thing are the rent-seekers in the grievance industry.

    Complain to me when people are actually dying over something.
    The real world is not a trust fund hugbox.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      I agree! My daughter-in-law is a Japanese national and quite an accomplished lady, Harvard MBA, VP at one of Japan’s largest Int’l banks, and she does not take offense. It would be interesting to learn how other Japanese nationals in Japan view its use, rather than the bed wetter who takes issue on this board.

      • 0 avatar
        clivesl

        So then why not just refer to her as your Jap Daughter-in-Law?
        Seems like writing out Japanese National is a waste of time.

        • 0 avatar
          nrcote

          > So then why not just refer to her as your
          > Jap Daughter-in-Law?
          > Seems like writing out Japanese National
          > is a waste of time.

          +1000

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          Jap chick who works at the Jap bank. Definitely not offensive.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          “So then why not just refer to her as your Jap Daughter-in-Law?”

          When I referred to my Jap-built Highlander on this board, pch took exception, probably because he is Oriental.

          FYI, I do refer to her as my one-and-only Jap Daughter-in-law, and she refers to me as her one-and-only Yank Father-in-law.

          We love Aiko, but for us it is a most awkward situation since she lives in Japan while my son lives here with his first wife and the twins they made in 2005, years after they were divorced, and before he married Aiko in 2008.

          Stranger than fiction but none the less true.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    To be fair, it *is* one of only a few mainstream derogatory terms where a shortening of a country or region is used. They’re probably using it in the same way another team might prefix something with “Euro-” if it relates to German, British, Swedish, French, or Italian cars.

    Also, I did just have to explain to a rather cosmopolitan friend that even “oriental” is also an offensive term when referring to people from the Far East, so a lot of people may not even be aware of Jap, especially (ironically) people from my generation, millennials.

    It still needs to go away.

  • avatar
    John

    I have several Japanese friends living in Japan – not the USA – and all of them consider “Jap” to be offensive.

    One thing quite a few Westerners don’t know is that in Japan, it is generally rude to correct someone, even if they are wrong, rude, or both – so Japanese people may not let you know that using “Jap” is rude, but believe me, they are offended. Also “Jap” isn’t a US secret – every native Japanese person I know knows the term, and considers it rude.

  • avatar
    la834

    I often see British people described as “Brits” and it doesn’t seem to be regarded as perjorative. How is “Japs” any different?

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      I refer to Brits as Bloody Limeys and make sure to insult their old, cheap, hideous, uptight hag that is their “queen.”

    • 0 avatar
      RideHeight

      In the American people’s collective memory I don’t think there’s an instance of a revered leader receiving wild popularity by saying:

      “KILL BRITS. KILL BRITS. KILL MORE BRITS.”

      Toying with revisiting that level of foaming hatred (not uncalled for at the time) is probably something no one today would be comfortable with.

      I mean, WWII was *tiring*.

      • 0 avatar
        la834

        I’m guessing some prominent American did yell “Kill Brits!” during the Revolutionary War, but yeah, that’s well before our collective memory.

        When I was a kid I assumed “limey” was a slur, but apparently it isn’t.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Two words come to mind after reading some of these posts:

    Mission Accomplished.

  • avatar
    Steven Lang

    Interesting conversation.

    Where I grew up in Northern New Jersey, a Jap referred to a Jewish American Princess. However it was really a broad term used to generalize anyone who was into buying expensive clothes. In fact there were far more Korean Japs in my high school than Jewish Japs. The female preppies were called Japs regardless of their background, and the few male preppies were called far, far worse.

    We called that time of human stupidity the late-1980s. Life has thankfully gone on since then and, yes, Jap is a racist term that is best left to the Archie Bunkers and ignorant slang terms of times past.

  • avatar

    This is almost funny. The last time a TTAC editor used a bad word in a headline, I quoted the name of a Lenny Bruce routine that used another bad word and ended up getting defamed as a racist. There are still a few stalkers who like to bring it up to try and embarrass me.

    The multiplicity of standards can be confusing.

  • avatar
    its me Dave

    My dad served in WWII in the Navy in the south Pacific. To his dying day, he called Japanese Japs. If there was a more derogatory term, he would have used it instead.

    • 0 avatar
      RideHeight

      I once spoke with a Marine veteran of Okinawa among other hellholes. In the middle of our conversation he drew back, got a distant stare in his eyes and quietly said, more to himself than to me:

      “Yeah, we killed a lotta Jap there.”

      They had become a collective noun, an undifferentiated mass to these guys. And deserved to. So the occasional use of “Jap” today hardly seems incomprehensible in light of events that might still be within the memory of someone reading this.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        There isn’t a whole lotta love lost to this very day. Both my #1 and #2 son were Marine Captains, stationed at Futenma on Oki during their active duty days and lived at Camp Hansen, albeit at different times, not simultaneously.

        I did visit both of them there and the Japanese really resent the Yanks still being there. While there, I heard the term Jap used often in conversations between Americans both on base and on the economy.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        I have no problem with giving those vets a pass. They’re wrong, but you can’t blame them for being bitter, given the trauma that they experienced — you could think of it as a form of PTSD.

        That forgiveness does not apply to a bunch of blockheads on the internet who just dare to be stupid.

        • 0 avatar
          Kyree S. Williams

          I can blame them, the same way I’d blame (and have) someone from a small racist town for calling me a nigger, even though that person may have grown up using that term. They need to realize that the world is changing and keep their PTSD hate to themselves.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Kyree, can you imagine anyone calling Herman Cain or Dr Ben Carson anything but Sir?

            How well a person conducts himself or herself in public has a great deal to do with what image they project to the world.

            I served with some of the finest African-American Non-Commissioned Officers while on active duty and no one, I repeat no one, thought of them as anything but Blue, Air Force Blue.

            Even at Keesler AFB, MS.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            The Southern bigots had the upper hand and inflicted suffering on others for sport.

            The guys on the front line in the Pacific Theater suffered under brutal conditions, witnessed the deaths of their friends and saw things that nobody should have to see. That sort of thing can change people.

        • 0 avatar
          ClutchCarGo

          “you can’t blame them for being bitter, given the trauma that they experienced”

          I think that it’s something deeper than bitterness out of trauma. Basic humanity dictates that you must not kill fellow humans, so in order to kill indiscriminately and in mass, it’s necessary to remove the humanity of the targets. I suspect that every soldier who’s ever seen active conflict has had to do the same thing, use epithets to dehumanize their enemies in order to live with themselves for doing something so awful, even if necessary. And it’s the same thing that we’re currently working on with the entirety of the world’s Muslim population.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Some people can take a war in stride (some even take some pleasure in it), others are deeply traumatized by it, and others still are somewhere in between. I think that we should accept that not everyone can cope equally well with it, nor can we predict how we would behave if we were in that same situation.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Ahhhhhhhhhhh yes! Takes me back to my time feeding ammo to the guns of our AC-47.

            I’m certain we ruined the day for a bunch of those VC and NVRA.

            And I’m not fonda Jane either.

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            So was the Jimi Hendrix, CCR, and Rolling Stones playing at the time or did they dub it in later?

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            NoGoYo, not on the plane, but afterwards at the Airmen’s Club.

            Tan Son Nut (Saigon) was our home base and had decent clubs (with plenty of party girls, nurses, Red Cross girls, round-eyes mostly) but some of the other places we RON’d like Nha Trang, Qui Nhon, An Khe, Cam Ranh Bay, Dong Ba Tinh, and others I forgot, were really the pits.

            I always got a kick out of Asian bands playing American R&R at the clubs. Surreal.

          • 0 avatar
            strafer

            Newer racist words originate from the US military fighting abroad.
            Kraut, Jap, Gook, zipperhead, towelhead, skinnies etc.

        • 0 avatar
          strafer

          OK, but this hate seems to be reserved more for the Japanese than the Germans.

  • avatar
    jansob

    I live in Japan, and just asked two of my linguistics students (whose English is excellent and who have lived in the US), and this is their reaction:

    It’s offensive when used as a noun or adjective because it’s being used exactly as it was when it was a definite slur….it’s a harsh slap of nastiness from the past.
    As in: “These Japs annoy me”, or “I don’t like Jap cars”. If it was “Jap Auto Parts” it would bother me.

    If “Jap” is used as a part of a combination word, like in “Japautoparts”, or “Japanimation”, it’s fine….the Japanese do that all the time themselves. Jap is a shortening of a perfectly okay word, which I think keeps it out of “offensive no matter what territory” in my mind. “Nig”-anything is racist in any context (outside of linguistic discussions!), because it’s not part of an innoffensive word.

    Totally get why you’re not comfortable with it…if you have a bad association, it’s an unpleasant feeling to hear it coming from your mouth. I have a few words that I don’t like to use even though they probably aren’t truly bad.

  • avatar
    Spike_in_Brisbane

    As an Aussie (short for Australian) I feel obliged to respond to the poster who claims that my countrymen are the world’s most racist. Anyone who has been here knows that we use a lot of slang and routinely shorten words. I did not realise that Jap was a slur but that just shows how educational TTAC can be. We refer to Brits, Itis, Fins, Pakis etc. It is hard to shorten “resident of the United States” so we usually say Yank. I hope you do not take offense even though I know the term really only applies to those north of the Mason Dixon line.
    There are anomalies associated with our geography also. We are referred to as a Western society even though we are in the far east.
    Question: If Ben Carson migrated here would we have to refer to him as an African-American-Australian?
    By the way, you guys do say “Chev” right?

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      Brit and Yank aren’t offensive, but Abo certainly is.

      And I personally met Aussies who referred to aboriginals as niggers. And even those who didn’t would trot out the usual cliches about how they all drive expensive 4WDs, burn down their houses, etc.

      Most of those people haven’t been within miles of an aboriginal community and have no idea how they live, yet they feel the need to bang on about it, anyway.

  • avatar
    redav

    “Maybe times have changed. Maybe “jap” actually means “jap,” but people have forgotten why “jap” was ever bad to begin with. I don’t like the idea of that, but I don’t get my way all the time either.”

    I don’t believe preserving offense is a good thing. If the younger generation who isn’t familiar with the derogatory usage don’t get offended, why tell them to be offended? Other than understanding historical documents, what good comes from that?

    I prefer the euphemism treadmill run backwards. Instead of making words off-limits, which triggers a new word to take its place until that too becomes offensive & off-limits, which is then replaced by another word, etc., I would rather words that are (or were once) offensive stop being offensive. Then they lose their power. And if the offensive *idea* loses its impact, then the idea & any words used to express it go away.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      If you aren’t Asian, then it isn’t your prerogative to decide whether the term is offensive. Show some respect for those who are being described by the term to decide whether they would like you to use it or not.

      • 0 avatar
        VolandoBajo

        @pch101 You proposed the standard should be whether or not it was offensive to the group being referred to.

        I assert that that is a meaningless and useless criterion.

        How do you categorize Redskins (as in the football team) when there are Native Americans (a/k/a Amerindians) who support the use of Redskins as a team name, and others who are opposed to it?

        According to your standard, every time I go out in public on a day the Redskins are playing, do I need to wear an overcoat over my sweatshirt, in case I run into a Native American?

        Then do I have to ask him or her if they find the term offensive before I can determine if it is OK to wear my Redskins sweatshirt to show my support for what is apparently destined to finish as the #1 team in the NFC East?

    • 0 avatar
      carlisimo

      It was still used as a pejorative in the ’80s and ’90s when Japanese car and electronics brands were making inroads here. Those of us who are different kinds of Asian-Americans heard it too, and that’s a fairly large population. It’ll be yet another generation before it loses its meaning.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        And whites don’t get to decide if and when it loses its meaning. Those who aren’t racists will have the decency to allow those who are targets of the label to choose whether or not it is offensive.

  • avatar
    -Nate

    Interesting thread with some really good replies .

    ” swaggering thug” ~ does this mean the New Jersy jokes and slurs can begin now ? =8-) .

    -Nate

    • 0 avatar
      VolandoBajo

      Hey! I’m from Joisey, Nate! Are you from Joisey, too?

      Joe Piscopo was from Joisey.

      I’m from between Exit 3 and Exit 4. (That’s pronounced “Exit Tree”.)

      And they ain’t swaggering thugs…they are professional accounts receivable collection professionals.

      And you’d swagger too if you had their collection ratios. :-)

      I gotta get a glass a wooder now…let me clear my troat.

  • avatar
    DrGastro997

    Living in Japan many years and I can tell you using “Jap” is very offensive to the Japanese people. I’m sure most wouldn’t refer to blacks as ni***** and so on unless you’re among the very small precentage.

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • DenverMike: This goes way beyond the border. So when you get there, would you unlock and hand them your phone for...
  • ravenuer: Re: that last pic….is that supposed to be “SNOW”, or “MONS”?
  • redapple: I used to work at a GMAD Plant. I was responsible for hood fit and fascias as well as badges and other...
  • Lorenzo: It probably doesn’t work on any car over 15 years old. What’s the average age of the typical car...
  • JMII: What is tough on the C7 is the whole torque tube situation with the clutch in front but the transmission in the...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Who We Are

  • Adam Tonge
  • Bozi Tatarevic
  • Corey Lewis
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber