By on November 20, 2015

2014 Audi A7 TDI (11 of 34)

During a meeting Thursday between the Environmental Protection Agency, Volkswagen and Audi, officials from the automakers told the regulator an emissions program for 3-liter turbodiesel engines is also used on 2009 through 2016 model year vehicles, the EPA said in a statement today.

An earlier statement from the EPA on November 2 pointed the finger at a limited number of models and model years equipped with the 3-liter diesels, even though other model years of those same vehicles are virtually identical with regards to their emissions systems.

In the latest statement, the EPA is still calling the emissions program a defeat device, though Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche have yet to recant their claim that the emissions program is legal and doesn’t violate emissions laws.

The admission from Volkswagen and Audi explains the confusion experienced by members of a Touareg enthusiast forum. Those members were flummoxed that the 2014 Volkswagen Touareg was identified by the EPA as using the auxiliary emissions control device, though earlier models that used the same drivetrain and ECU were not.

Volkswagen and Audi are supposed to detail to the EPA today a fix for illegally polluting four-cylinder diesels, though there’s been no word on whether that has happened or not at the time of publication.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

35 Comments on “More Volkswagen, Audi Vehicles Included in EPA’s 3-liter Diesel Notice of Violation...”

  • avatar

    The A7 is very sexy and desirable, but not something which you’d order in the diesel version, IMO. Also, I noticed one yesterday, and there are actually the Audi rings logo inside the tail lamp pattern! Lookie!

    This design feature went away with the LED lamps in the current one.

    Aaaaah, I love it. Also, cars which will still look great in 10 years from design standpoint – this.

    • 0 avatar

      Funny – I’ve always thought the A7 looks like a dog dragging its a$$ across the carpet and much prefer the looks of the A6. Just goes to show how subjective matters of styling and design preference can be.

      Of course this is all largely academic from my perspective, as VW is now dead to me after it has shown itself willing to commit blatant fraud with this diesel cheating mess. Pity – between me and my family we’ve owned a TON of VW Group products over the years. Never again for any of us.

      • 0 avatar

        I’m not big on the A7 silhouette either, but I dig the car for what it is — a lot.

      • 0 avatar

        “I’ve always thought the A7 looks like a dog dragging its a$$ across the carpet” …. Muahahahahahahahaha. AGREED!

        The A6 looks *so* much better. Keep in mind though, they all fail emissions testing.

      • 0 avatar

        I love the exterior of the A7; it’s one of the few cars that looks great in any color (even white), especially from the rear and quarter-side profile.

        Audi has the best exterior styling, by far. They balance just enough elements without overdoing the creases, chrome, bulbous-nobs, aggressive snouts, like other makes do.

        Audi has crisp, austere, elegant, precise styling elements.

        If they went with an interior that has analog gauges with real metal surrounds and wood in a circa-1967 Volvo 1800s way, the A3/A4/A6/A7 would be perfect inside and out:

        Whoever designed that deserves the Nobel Prize Forever for design.

        • 0 avatar

          I agree with you, yet many of the people who bemoan the current state of automotive design also deride Audi for being “boring”. Apparently, BMW’s extraneous creases are considered more tasteful.

    • 0 avatar

      When I drove that car with the diesel, it was damn near perfect.

      • 0 avatar

        What did you like about it? We were well on our way to getting one as a company car until the test drive. Then it fell flat and we got another 3.0T gas one. The funny thing is that the VW scandal was unfolding the week we were car shopping and the salesman insisted that only the 2.0s were affected and that Audi made their own engines, so no Audis were in jeopardy. I knew he was full of it at the time, but there was little point to calling him out on it.

    • 0 avatar

      Agreed. The only Audi I crave with a diesel is one I can’t get here. For me the SQ5 makes way more sense in diesel guise. It’s not a sports car. I’m not going to be flogging it constantly. But up to 516 lb-ft? Yum.

  • avatar

    Maybe this will drop the used prices (like the 2.0 TDI VW’s)
    down to where I can actually think of paying for one.

  • avatar

    I don’t get why VW is fighting the EPA on these cars. The number is so small that they might as well just plead guilty and get on with it.

    This is NOT the time to be getting into a semantics pi$$ing contest with the EPA, given all the hot water they are in already.

    They seem to be forgetting that the EPA (and DoJ) have VERY wide discretion on how much hurt they can put VW through on the I4 diesels. Trying to nickle-and-dime their way out of the 3L diesels could very well annoy the feds enough that they make the 4-cyl diesel fiasco that much more expensive.

    • 0 avatar

      They aren’t really fighting on the 3.0 models they have admitted that they cheated back to 2009 on these cars w/o making the EPA test all of them which they finally realized that was going to happen. So this admission is the first step in trying to not piss off the EPA any more than they already have.

      • 0 avatar

        VW still claims it’s not a cheat device like the one on 2.0 engines. However, VW admitted belatedly that, since the software was not declared for approval as required by law, the affected cars do not have valid certificates of conformance and are therefore illegal.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      I was thinking the same thing.

      Even if the 3.0 is truly legal and the EPA is somehow wrong, VW should have said “VW will cooperate with the EPA to produce the best solution that meets the letter and spirit of the law, while providing the utmost in customer satisfaction with its products.”

      Stiff-arming the EPA isn’t a great idea right now.

    • 0 avatar

      Supposing, that they have nothing else to hide, you are right. What if they have? What if they have a lot?

  • avatar

    I’m not sure why the people on the forums would have been confused by how this has proceeded so far.

    CARB and EPA get word that a particular year/model of the 2.0 cars appears to be cheating the system somehow.

    They test that particular model and find out that it does indeed cheat on the test.

    They test other years and models of vehicles equipped with the same basic engine. They find that all of them cheat on the test.

    So they decided to round up all of the diesels from the company from that time frame.

    One by one they test them. When they found out the initial models tested also have a cheat program they announce that the ones they have tested to that point failed.

    They continue to round up and test other years/models that use the same engine.

    Had VW not made this admission then the EPA would have continued testing and announcing the results as they came in. The EPA was not about to make a blanket statement that all of the vehicles equipped with the 3.0 were cheaters, they were going to verify each and every one. Just because they started with one particular model year in no way should have been construed to indicate that it was the only versions affected.

  • avatar

    Jaw dropping lack of leadership from VW. They had to have known the V6 diesels were equipped to cheat the test and instead of laying it all out in the beginning of this scandal and taking the hit with the fine and pr, they’re letting the drip-drip-drip news cycle define them and make it appear they tried to avoid liability with their V6 diesels.


    • 0 avatar

      From a crisis management stand point, they make GM look stellar in comparison, which ain’t sayin’ much.

    • 0 avatar
      George B

      The simplest explanation is Volkswagen doesn’t care about the United States car market except for achieving total world volume bragging rights. Designing cars to comply with EPA regulations and making sure all the bases are covered in their application for certification wasn’t a high priority. Volkswagen is more concerned with managing the crisis in Europe while keeping cars cheap enough for 3rd world growth.

      • 0 avatar

        The simplest explanation is that VW isn’t good at crisis management. Most companies aren’t and VW handled its last major public crisis — the Lopez affair — badly, so this isn’t exactly a shock.

        • 0 avatar

          Or…the people at vw managing public statements have no idea what code is present on any given ecu. That seems like the simplest explanation to me given the management turmoil going on in Germany. They are probably at the mercy of whatever drivetrain engineers are left at the company afterwhat sounds a lot like a purge. I can’t imagine there’s people willing or capable of pointing out issues coming downstream at this point.

          Either way it’s not a good look.

          • 0 avatar

            Winner, winner.

            Never assume management – especially at a company the size of VW, even VW NA – actually knows the details of anything like that.

            Especially things they *shouldn’t have known*, and that everyone involved had an excellent set of aligned motives to help *keep them from having to know*…

        • 0 avatar

          Do you have any links on the Lopez affair handy? I’m familiar with the story but a refresher right now would be interesting.

          • 0 avatar

            Automotive News has quite a bit on the story from various points in time (it dragged on for years.) Take a look there.

            The short answer is that VW responded to GM’s accusations by digging in its heels and refusing to apologize, which had the effect of prolonging the scandal and making the settlement more expensive.

            GM’s response to Lopez’s alleged theft was genuinely emotional, and VW failed to address the human element of General Motors’ actions, which just provoked GM to go for the throat. Piech et. al. did a lousy job of reading the situation, and that failure raised the price tag into the billion-dollar range.

  • avatar

    Crisis Management 101: Get all of the bad news out fast, and before others do. It is on the list ( )

    1. You Will Suffer In The Short-Term:
    2. You Need to Communicate Immediately:
    3. If You Don’t Talk, Others Will:
    4. Saying “No Comment” Is The Same as Saying “We’re Guilty:”
    5. Your Response Needs to Be About The Victims:
    6. Facts Are Not Enough:
    7. Get It All Out:

  • avatar

    VAG’s PR is not as good as the engineering was advertised to have been….

  • avatar

    As Audi says, “Truth in engineering.” Yup.

  • avatar

    “Meanwhile, in Germany, VW’s homeland…..”

    Over here in Germany, VW is now beginning to feel the ramifications of their various recent scandals — they did not only lie and cheat wrt to NOx, but also about the levels of CO2 emissions and fuel consumption, at least over here. And the shenanigans regarding the CO2 levels and fuel consumption do not only affect the diesel engines.

    This week, it was announced that VW would be giving vouchers to its U.S. customers to at least partially make up for all the damage done and the hassles that their customers have to go through now.
    VW DOESN’T offer these vouchers to its German customers, however, which created an uproar among its German clientele and in the German auto and news press. Their unwillingness to extend this goodwill gesture with the vouchers to German car buyers has further dragged down their image in Germany, and that’s actually quite remarkable since VW has always been considered the Golden Cow of the German industrial landscape.

    German VW dalers are now openly complaining that since the CO2 and fuel consumption issues were made public, the business at their dealerships is practically dead. German VW buyers may have been very loyal in the past, but even they don’t like to be treated as fools. (Then again, foreign competitors on the German market such as Renault, Fiat, the Japanese, Koreans etc. are so far *not* reporting an increase in demand for THEIR vehicles. It seems that potential VW customers are currently just holding back instead of jumping ships.)

    People here also question if the new CEO, Müller, is the right person for this job, considering that he is not an outsider and might have a vested interest himself in concealing some important facts and past events within VW wrt to that whole emissions affair.

    Even on their home market, VW is walking on very thin ice now, but they still seem to ignore some of the cracks in the ice they’re walking on. Pride comes before a fall, I guess.

    • 0 avatar

      VW may handle the crisis as they (and shareholders) want – it is about their market share and their money. Anyway it is unavoidable to accept, that VW way of fixing their huge mistake is hurting reputation of all German companies. In Europe, German standards are often considered as too formal and bureaucratic – but they seem at least solid and reliable. Now it is changing. From my position I see, that many people do not trust German engineering unconditionally, as before. Now you can’t assume any more, that Germans would not screw up something intentionally, because they have high professional standards and rules, making it impossible. VW has killed the legend. German product is not obviously better than Italian or Polish one just because it is engineered and made in Germany.

    • 0 avatar

      I was wondering what VW owners in other countries thought about the US “goodwill gesture.” It reminds me of a parent who hands off presents to one of his children while his other children look on, empty handed.

  • avatar

    And the band played on….

  • avatar

    I can see it now, billions of dollars in potential fines and cost to retrofit cars being used to arm twist VW into building large facilities in the US to build their cars and trucks. Blackmail put to good use maybe. Fines will just wind up as govt waste where plants building Audis will provide jobs for Americans. Stay tuned for the announcements. Or is Obuthead just too thick to see the profit in this arrangement.

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • FreedMike: I’d say these dealers should invest in some security cameras. And it’s also a good time to trade up to...
  • sgeffe: Yikes!
  • sgeffe: I’ve seen at least one in the flesh, and believe me, it’s the size of an F-150! Hard to say if the selloff by...
  • Imagefont: I have to say I admire the civil discourse these days. Someone is missing from the comments as I see far...
  • jalop1991: The thief will have no consequences anyway. After all, he’s just trying to get money to eat. Jail is...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Who We Are

  • Adam Tonge
  • Bozi Tatarevic
  • Corey Lewis
  • Jo Borras
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber