By on August 11, 2015

That screeching noise you’re hearing around the 20-second mark in the video below? That’s the 2016 Toyota Tacoma’s front brakes screaming through sand as the Tacoma digs itself out of a self-inflicted pit using its clever crawl control.

We asked Tacoma Chief Engineer Mike Sweers last week why the new Tacoma didn’t have discs in the back (unlike the new Tundra) and he pointed specifically to that piercing wail — and that most owners don’t need them anyhow.

“Towing is No. 22 on the reasons why Tacoma buyers are looking for a new truck. Discs are great when it comes to ventilating heat from heavy towing, but we’re not hearing that need from Tacoma owners,” Sweers said.

Fair enough.

Sweers pointed further to heat retention, cost and that gawd-awful sound as reasons why engineers kept the drum brakes on the rear of the Tacoma.

We’ll have a full review of the Tacoma’s stopping power — and going power — next week.

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85 Comments on “2016 Toyota Tacoma Still Has Rear Drum Brakes and Here’s Why (Video)...”


  • avatar

    It’s well established that, despite their abilities, disc brakes are a Royal PITA at the rear of any vehicle in terms of maintenance. So, for once, I agree with Toyata’s design decisions: drum brakes make sense in this vehicle.

    • 0 avatar
      Power6

      Why is that? There is easier mechanical parking brake integration but that is all i can think of in the drums favor…

      • 0 avatar
        Lack Thereof

        It is really the parking brake that screws up what would otherwise be a simple rear disc. Particularly on ones that don’t have a separate drum-in-disc parking brake.

        When I worked in auto parts, I sold a lot of replacement rear calipers to people & shops, because the piston on the previous caliper simply would not retract as designed during a pad change.

        • 0 avatar
          greaseyknight

          Yep, especially on trucks. The parking brake needs to be able to hold the vehicle with cargo on an incline, thats alot of weight. And as much of a pain as drums are, its hard to beat a parking brake that is integrated with the drum brakes.

      • 0 avatar

        My understanding was that, because drum brakes are simpler mechanically, and because the brakes at the rear do far less work, they are somewhat less prone (despite all of their downsides) to seizing and general issues due to corrosion and underuse, etc. I could be completely wrong here, but I’ve heard several mechanics praise drums in the back from a completely ‘cost of maintenance/frequency of care’ side of things, not from a quality of braking perspective. And lord knows any car I’ve owned that has had rear disc brakes has had at least some semi-expensive rear-brake work at some point (usually centred around something seized).

        • 0 avatar
          MBella

          Disc brakes are way simpler both to manufacture, install and maintain. The only issue comes with the parking brake as indicated above. You either have to install a small drum brake into the rotor anyway, or integrate it into the caliper. Now that electric parking brakes are becoming common, I see rear drums slowly fading away.

          • 0 avatar
            Thomas Kent

            Why not put the parking brake on the driveline, like they did on the FJ40 LandCruisers?:
            http://www.fourwheeler.com/features/1009-4wd-1976-toyota-land-cruiser-fj40/photo-13.html

      • 0 avatar
        jcisne

        IMO drum brakes last longer.

    • 0 avatar
      sirwired

      Huh? I find disc brakes rather easy to work on. Their maintenance is generally quite simple, and requires no tools beyond a socket set and a C-clamp. No springs (or special spring tools), no fiddly parts, no complicated assembly procedure. Remove wheel, unbolt caliper, remove caliper bracket, remove rotor, remove pads. Assembly is the reverse.

      • 0 avatar

        It’s more frequency of maintenance, not the maintenance itself (silly me, of course this is TTAC and everyone jumps to “well, when I change them myself…”). I was considering it more from a cost perspective for people who just pay to get their breaks done. Disc brakes work well in high use scenarios, but tend not to work as well (especially with only periodic parking brake use) where less is required of them (remember, the front brakes do a lot more of the braking than the back), so discs at the rear always seem to require lots of care not because they are worn out, but because they are seized, noisy, or warped in some form. This has been my experience, anyway, and its an experience that I’ve heard mechanics agree with.

      • 0 avatar
        Scoutdude

        No if it is a parking brake caliper you usually need the special tool to reset the caliper w/o braking things. Use a C clamp on most calipers that have a parking brake and you will destroy the caliper very quickly.

        Now if it has a disc/drum set up in back then yes it is as simple as doing front brakes except for those Subarus that have parking brakes on the front calipers.

    • 0 avatar
      VW16v

      The drum brakes are clearly about profit amd toyota knows their trucks are hardly ever used as work trucks. Taco and Tundra are go.to Lowe’s and Hope Depot transportation machines. One reason why the resale is so great on toyota trucks. Hard to find one that was actually used as a work truck.

      • 0 avatar
        RideHeight

        That’s just Japanese-hating whack job spew. Old Toyo pickups are legion in my flyover woodlands, all beat to hell from hard use and many toting replacement beds because salt.

        Don’t see a lot of full-sizers, granted, but Tacos and earlier… damn.

      • 0 avatar

        I find it hard to believe that disk brakes cost more than drum brakes for a manufacturer, they have many more parts.

      • 0 avatar
        Advance_92

        You could say that about most pickup trucks, though.

      • 0 avatar
        mccann25

        I’m assuming you reside in Michigan, where Toyota dealers are way too lazy to advertise unlike back in Iowa where I’m from. Toyota dealers in Iowa keep a lot of Toyotas on the road, and their dealerships look like they are closing every other week in a city bigger than the size of Ann Arbor and Lansing put together. The big three dealerships in Iowa look like places where vehicles just sit and rot, because they never move. Very little advertising in Michigan keeps more big 3s on the road. This is why you don’t think Toyotas are work trucks, because you reside in a very weak Toyota advertisement region.

    • 0 avatar
      Jacob

      Well established? I have changed rear brake pads and rotors on a couple of cars, and it was no much different from changing fronts. I had to borrow a special tool from AutoZone to compress the cylinder. That’s all. The drums on the other hand, last a long time, sometimes the lifetime of car, but they need to be regularly cleaned and re-adjusted. You’d be surprised, but most older cars with rear drum brakes have lost much of their rear braking power because of the lack of this maintenance.

    • 0 avatar
      EAF

      I always find rear drums to be way out of adjustment. What I’ve encountered is that brake dust & rust bind up the screw slack mechanism. So either you adjust them manually or remove the drum to clean them, either way they require more maintenance than disc brakes. JMO.

      • 0 avatar
        Steve65

        And then there’s the issue of getting the worn drum off when it hangs on the edges of the shoes. In the year I worked as a mechanic’s helper, we didn’t have a single rear drum brake job where they just slid off. They ALL required application of heat and pursuasion of the BFH kind.

        • 0 avatar
          SC5door

          One of my Moms cars had the original shoes on the rear with 70K on the car…until the glue/adhesive on the shoe finally gave way with age and lodged itself in the drum. Springs, shoes, and the cylinder all trashed.

  • avatar
    Power6

    I predict a crotchety old man outpouring of love drum brakes LOL

    One reason to use disc brakes is brake feel. As lackluster as sliding calipers are i have read it is difficult for a chassis engineer to get a good progressive pedal feel out of a mixed disc and drum system. I like discs for a drivers car, particularly a fixed caliper, but for a truck it probably doesn’t matter so much so i can see why Toyota sticks with rear drums.

    Servicing disc brakes is generally easier though!

    • 0 avatar
      Lack Thereof

      You get much better brake feel out of 4-wheel discs, especially early in the pedal travel. Most of that soft drum feel occurs in the first quarter or so of the braking force.
      Once you get deep into the pedal, though, the feel of drums becomes much closer to that of discs.

      However, that first bit of pedal is what you end up using 90% of the time while in traffic, so rear discs have the marketplace advantage.

      Front discs tend to be easy to service, but rear disc service is often needlessly complicated by poorly thought out parking brake designs.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      In my 18 years with a Toyota pickup (’95 to 2013, MY ’94), I never really noticed a lack of brake feel.

      And to the best of my knowledge, when I got rid of it with 280kmi, it *still* had the original rear pads.

      The front brakes do all the work in that application, really.

      • 0 avatar
        jpolicke

        It probably had the original rear pads because the self-adjusters stopped working 200k miles ago.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          True they’ll last forever if “adjusted”just right . Yet I needed rear pads on my F-150 last year, but the front pads still have plenty of meat left on them. The rear pad are smaller though. The rotors were still good, so just a pad slap.

        • 0 avatar
          Sigivald

          Probably!

          (Though the parking brake seemed to work fine, on hills.)

          On the other hand, it also still stopped fine.

          Also, I took it to the dealer for yearly service, and you’d think if the drums were not adjusted they’d tell me and charge me to fix that… because money.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      From the B&B? You’re only seeing love because this was a Toyota solution. Had any other automaker (sans Honda) from a continent gave this reason, you’d hear, “rabble, rabble rabble,” on why this is so horrible.

      Toyota still puts drum brakes on the Corolla and Yaris for the record, and still offers up 4-speed and 5-speed automatics.

      Things that other automakers were getting crucified in the press and commentary for offering as far as 15 years ago.

      • 0 avatar
        geozinger

        I was going to post something similar yesterday.

        Take this press release, substitute Chevy Colorado for Toyota Tacoma and watch the howls ensue.

        What is the reasoning? Because in some situations the disc brakes would squeak? Really?

        Oh, what a feeling…

      • 0 avatar
        30-mile fetch

        Oh geez, APaGttH and Geozinger. Confirmation bias. From my view, Toyota is one of the press and internet commentariat’s favorite whipping boys. Reviewers often take a lukewarm or critical stance on Toyota’s utilitarian approach and “enthusiast” commenters are relentless in their hostility for the brand. The 4 speed transmission does not support your point, it absolutely gets criticized.

        I suggest reading a Car and Driver Toyota review or the comment section of Motortrend if you think TTAC is too kind and you want a sense of justice restored.

        I see Honda as the golden child, it took the 2012 Civic to finally draw any ire from the press.

      • 0 avatar
        Mr. Orange

        By it being a Toyota, it appears that the B&B will actually discuse a topic as opposed to pilling about how horrible manufacturer X is or how long a history manufactur X has with getting thing y wrong.

        And notice I was the first to mention Cadillac.

      • 0 avatar
        SomeGuy

        @APaGttH

        Exactly. If this was GM… Oh my gosh the outpouring of hate.

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        I dunno.

        Last time “zomg drum brakes!!” came up here, I pointed out that Honda and Chevy and Ford and GM all offer rear drums on their Corolla/Yaris equivalents.

        I didn’t check the Koreans or Chrysler, but I’d be *shocked* to see it be any different in that segment.

        And defended them for the same reasons – those cars hardly need rear brakes at all, let alone Four Wheel Disc Goodness.

    • 0 avatar
      brn

      “I predict a crotchety old man outpouring of love drum brakes”

      My 1977 LTD wagon came with a commercial cargo package. One of the many features this included was oversized drum brakes on all four wheels. Quite possibly the most powerful breaks in any vehicle I’ve ever driven. Very solid feel, as well.

      • 0 avatar
        Power6

        Huh i think of this place as a bit anti-toyta, with all the Camry and Lexus hating.

        @brn 77 LTD bud? No way a late 70s American anything had front drums!

      • 0 avatar
        Wheeljack

        By 1977 the LTD had front disc brakes as standard equipment. Even the 1/2 ton Ford pickup trucks had standard disc brakes in front by then, and they were based on the LTD units, at least on the F-100/F-150. My 1976 F-150 4×4 finally got standard front disc brakes that year, and the calipers, brake pads and sliding hardware were all common with the full-size Ford cars. They were arguably not large enough for proper truck “sized” disc brakes, but they were still light years ahead of the front drum brakes used on the 1975 4×4 trucks.

        What you got was probably larger diameter/wider drums in the rear.

      • 0 avatar
        Scoutdude

        No 1977 LTD had drums at all 4 corners. If you got the towing or HD package you did get larger rear drums.

      • 0 avatar
        greaseyknight

        RockAuto has a listing under a ’77 LTD 2 for front drum shoes part number 3026401. Which is totally crazy to put front drums on a 70’s full sized car.

        • 0 avatar
          Scoutdude

          And Rock Auto has the worst cataloging system in the business so you can’t trust what they say at all. Try a real parts store like Napaonline or go direct to a brake company’s catalog like Bendix.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      Old men are who buys the Tacoma! Extended cab guise, in red or green with a cap. They drive very very slowly to the VA office, then Dunkin Donuts, and then Home Depot.

      Gosh darnit, how’d it get to be 3:30 already!?

    • 0 avatar
      brn

      As I age, my mind may not be what it once was, but I can (and could back then) tell the difference between drums and brakes. There is zero doubt in my mind that I had drums at all four corners. I worked on the darn things!

  • avatar
    Tosh

    Drums are cheaper. End of story.

    • 0 avatar
      Steve Biro

      “Drums are cheaper. End of story.”

      Exactly. I began driving in the early 1970s and I have never found drum brakes to be superior to discs under any circumstance (except maybe on big, 18-wheelers) – and I have a lot of experience with both.

      • 0 avatar
        Power6

        Why are drums cheaper? Less material than a big old sliding caliper? I guess that makes sense when you factor in a rear parking brake.

        • 0 avatar
          bumpy ii

          The components are much simpler and less costly to manufacture. The drum itself is just a big bowl with a few holes, versus the more complex casting of a caliper shell. The drum hardware is little more than a set of small metal plates and some springs. Shoes versus pads are a wash. The backing plate is usually just that, versus an additional casting to mount the caliper.

    • 0 avatar
      stuki

      Which means Toyota can fit them on trucks intended for poorer markets than the US. Which means Toyota sells an absolute metric ston of them. Which means Toyota has enormous experience with them in trucks use. Which means pretty much every issue is worked out long, long ago….

      Besides, as the Toyota rep hinted at (if a bit politely): Tacos don’t tow or haul. They are driven around empty. Which, in a front heavy pickup, means that a gnome sitting on the rear bumper dragging his feet on command, is all the brakes that are required back there. And, now that GM introduced a mid sized diesel, the truism that Tacos don’t tow and haul, will just become even truer.

  • avatar
    EAF

    I absolutely despise the idea of drum brakes on a passenger vehicle. I mainly just don’t enjoy servicing or adjusting them. They suck.

  • avatar
    sirwired

    While there is great difference between the two for automakers, and discs certainly look better, under normal use, there really isn’t any such thing as “inadequate” brakes.

    Even the lousiest brakes on the lousiest Penalty Box contains more than enough braking power to lock the wheels, which is all you really need a braking system to handle (ABS will keep releasing them). Stopping distances have to do with the tires and suspension (along with the weight of the vehicle) not the type of brakes or size of the rotors.

    The type/size comes into play if you drive like an idiot (or a racer or autojournalist writing reviews) and you do all the horrible things with your brakes your parents and driver’s ed instructor warned you against. (Repeated hard braking, riding the brakes, etc.) A mere mortal will virtually never encounter those limitations.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Cost, its the cost.

  • avatar
    sco

    Agreed disc brakes are very easy to work on even for an amateur, drum brakes are painful. But I’ve never worn out a pair of rear brake pads on any front wheel drive car with rear drums. And on my 2012 Mazda 3 the rear disc brake pads wore out at 68K miles, supposedly because the manufacturer puts thinner pads on the rear than the front. So I guess I’d rather have rear drum brakes even if they are harder to fix

    • 0 avatar
      Jacob

      The issue with drum brakes is that by 68K miles, your rear drums also would have lost much of their braking power if there was no maintenance done at all. Drum shoes need to be readjusted on a regular basis, and the drum must be taken off for regular cleaning. Ever dealt with a frozen/stuck drum? Leaky cylinders are a common issue on cars with drum brakes. The point is if you want to have your rear drums to be in order, they need maintenance too. On the other hand, the rear rotors are very easy to work on for most cars.

      • 0 avatar
        Power6

        Drums have been self adjusting for decades now.

        • 0 avatar
          Scoutdude

          Yes but there are many self adjusters out there that don’t really work very well when they leave the factory and after time they tend to rust or get gummed up and so on those that actually work well when they leave the factory half of them stop self adjusting by half way through their life.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    What Sweers is really saying is Tacoma buyers are way too ‘lifestyle’ for it to matter. Plus they certainly don’t service their own brakes anyway, so it’s just ‘blah blah blah’ on a Pep Boys or Walmart invoice.

    The next Tacoma generation will likely get disks all around, but this is a refresh.

    • 0 avatar
      RideHeight

      Heh.. yeah.. he pretty much comes right out and calls them weenies. I was tickled; kinda diplomatic and circumlocutious, but not enough?

    • 0 avatar
      Jacob

      Oh, and the guys in Texas towns riding in raised GM or Ford trucks which occasionally spew out lots of smoke are not doing it for lifestyle?

    • 0 avatar
      30-mile fetch

      I’d argue that a lot of F150/Silverado 1500/Ram 1500 buyers are also using the vehicles primarily as a “lifestyle” accessory and pay to have all maintenance done rather than doing it themselves. They’re primarily ’round town sedans for buyers who want size and ride height and the potential to take a washer/dryer combo from Lowe’s home yourself even if it’s only used that way once every 2 years. Ain’t just Tacoma buyers.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        No one said “all” or every. But more of those that want the “pickup lifestyle” alone, with no real need for a hauler, will end up with midsize pickups. On the other end, yeah we see a lot of HD brodozers, billowing soot and lifted to high hell, but for every one of those, there’s hundreds or thousands of HDs putting in a hard day’s work.

        So even 1/2 tons have to be built for the expectation of serious work, even if it’s only for the occasional buyer.

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        Even people who aren’t “lifestylers” often value their time enough to pay someone else to do that work.

        (Hell, when I first got my F250, I paid someone else to put on non-scary brake pads [used truck = scary brakes and tires, always].

        Because despite having done disc brakes more than once, and having no fear of the task, I simply could *not* get the calipers off the mounts by myself.

        Money fixes problems like that.)

  • avatar
    Jeff Weimer

    For the Cruze Eco, they went with drums in the rear because they weigh less than the disc brake/drum parking brake combo and since the shoes don’t touch the friction surface unless the brakes are applied they have less F/E-robbing friction.

  • avatar
    SirSpeedy

    Drum brakes suck when they get immersed in water. Been there, done that, sank the car.

  • avatar
    Carlson Fan

    “Towing is No. 22 on the reasons why Tacoma buyers are looking for a new truck. ”

    Reason right there why I will never own another Toy truck.

    • 0 avatar
      redav

      Not directed at you, but this post made me think about how many people dismiss the value of any product not directed at them.

      Toyota is right that small truck drivers generally don’t care about towing. There are plenty of other trucks that cover that need. I like the diversity to be able to get exactly what I want instead of being forced to pay for what I don’t.

      • 0 avatar
        Carlson Fan

        I bought my ’93 compact Toy for the sole purpose of towing. I know I’m in the minority but i only buy trucks for towing. IMO the GM midsize twins are designed with an emphasis towards towing while the Taco is for the off-road guys.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      So you won’t buy a Tundra, because Tacoma buyers aren’t interested in towing?

      They shouldn’t be – the Tacoma isn’t a very good towing platform, just like a Small SUV or Station Wagon isn’t a very good towing platform.

      That’s a great reason for you to not consider a Tacoma, definitely.

      It’s a weird reason to discount the Tundra.

      (Not saying you might not have good reasons to do so – just that that ain’t one.)

      • 0 avatar
        Carlson Fan

        The GMC 1/2 ton that was just reviewed w/6.2 would tow circles around a Tundra and get better fuel economy doing it. Nothing about the current Tundra impresses me. For my money either GM twin or a Ford is a better truck.

  • avatar
    Pesky Varmint

    1 ton 2011 Duramax discs on rear, 2005 Dodge Power Wagon discs rear, 2002 Land Rover discs rear, 2004 Mustang discs rear. Custom built 89 Jeep YJ (mods way too extensive to list, but custom Dana 44 axles front and rear) all disc. 77 Ford Bronco extensively built including rear discs. Triple axle boat trailer with discs. Car hauler trailer with discs.

    I do all my own maintenance.

    My life will be wonderful if I never have to deal with a drum brake again in my life.

  • avatar
    Scoutdude

    The only reason is cost. Drum brakes are not more effective at using the brakes to ensure that power is distributed to all 4 wheels.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    I have drums on the rear of my BT50GT Mazda pickup. The braking system with the discs up front does a good job. I’m more worried about the grip and traction from the tyres letting me down prior to the brakes.

    I don’t have any problems with them, even pulling up at high speed of over 85mph.

    I mean a pickup isn’t a performance vehicle, even pushing a pickup you would never sit on the brakes as hard as if you where driving a sports car.

    Loaded they work well and it seems to work well with hill decent and the ABS.

    As for towing, well the BT50 is a midsize and it’s rated to 3.5 tonnes or 7 700lbs. The most I’ve ever towed was a tandem trailer boat and trailer. I figured I had towed over 6 000lbs and the pickup had over 1500lbs in it. The brakes did a sterling job.

    But, they are rather large drum brakes.

  • avatar
    macnab

    For me, rotor warping is such an annoyance that I’d put up with the shortcomings of drums. I’ve been driving Chevs since the ’80s. They all warped their front rotors when I used expensive Delco parts but not when I used cheap Chinese rotors from JCWhitney. I never found out why. The rear drum adjusters had to be coaxed to work by a dozen very hard stops in reverse every month. Can anybody tell me if rotor warping is still a problem with new cars? I’m considering a new Honda Accord.

  • avatar
    an innocent man

    If getting unstuck is a legit reason for drums, it’s strange Jeep doesn’t use them on the Wrangler, no?

  • avatar

    I was (and still kinda am) shocked at the sight of four wheel discs on all 2011 Rangers when I was shopping for a new vehicle. The stopping power is insane, I rally-crossed it all afternoon and the brakes never faded even with full-ABS braking at every corner.

    I was completely blown away at how the active handling nanny worked on icy roads with those brakes keeping the light rear end from going all over the place. I’d never driven a Ranger with this poise.

    The Taco ain’t cheap, it needs discs at all corners.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      If Toyota was trying to capture the ‘light truck rallycross’ market, I’m sure they would.

      But … what’s in it for them?

      (I mean, if the Tacoma has a non-competitive active handling/ESC/whatever because it has drums, that’s relevant.

      The Internet is not clear about it being particularly limited by being drum-based in back, though.)

  • avatar
    kosmo

    Screw the rear brakes, TTAC’s upcoming review of the Tacoma better include the V6/6MT or the Hypocrisy Police are coming!

  • avatar
    Ryoku75

    Its amazing how far engines have evolved but yet carmakers are still using drum brakes.

    In 1966 you could buy up-market family sedans with discs all around, theres no reason why drums should still be a thing.

  • avatar
    Fred

    My 1999 Silverado had rear disc brakes. Twice the parking brake didn’t release fully and wears out the rear brakes. What ticks me off about GM is that even tho 2000 they changed to drums they won’t acknowledge the defect. So I don’t use the parking brake if I don’t have to.

    Curiously my 1965 Elan has a similar problem, but I only adjust them to work when I go for a safety inspection.

    My other 2 rear disc brake cars, SVO and Audi A3 didn’t have any such problems. I should check up on the TSX before it’s too late.

  • avatar
    joeaverage

    FWIW I’m driving an SUV to destruction (carefully). The factory rear brake shoes lasted 215K miles. Am approaching 300K miles in about a year? There isn’t alot going on back there to generate wear and heat. Drums work just fine for that application.

    Now if I was driving a rear engined vehicle where the brake bias was more 50/50 or if I was driving a track car – I’d worry about having discs in the back.

    Perhaps if I was driving a heavy duty pickup with a gooseneck trailer heavily loaded then I’d worry about rear discs.

    I like good brakes more than any other feature of a vehicle.

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