By on July 4, 2015

Supercharged 6.2-liter HEMI® Hellcat V-8 engine produces 707 ho

Nothing is more American than a high-horsepower V8 in a muscle car. Thanks to increased demand, roads are going to feature more of that familiar V8 rumble as Dodge ramps up Hellcat production.

According to Automotive News, FCA has produced approximately 4,000 Hellcat engines so far this year, even as the company stopped taking orders for the Charger and Challenger models in an effort to get caught up with demand.

“We’ve sold 88,000 muscle cars [this calendar year], Challengers and Chargers, and 4,000 of those have been Hellcats. It’s a small sliver of what we sell, but it really creates a halo for the rest of the lineup,” Tim Kuniskis, head of Dodge and SRT, told the trade publication. “For example, the next highest car, the Scat Pack Challenger, I have essentially a zero-day supply. It’s sold out.”

So, if you’re looking for a Hellcat in the near-ish future, you may be in luck. What’s more American than a muscle car assembled in Canada with an engine from Mexico?

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115 Comments on “More Corporate Average Horsepower, Hellcat Production Going Up...”


  • avatar
    RideHeight

    Bring out Stars & Bars editions. Really ride the wave.

    • 0 avatar
      WhiskeyRiver

      Ditto. A few dozen Hellcats at a bar somewhere under the stars sounds like a good time.

      • 0 avatar
        RideHeight

        “Historical accuracy matters.”

        For stuff I admire, yeah, but not for a defunct slave nation.

        (How’d this get above your post :-)

        • 0 avatar
          JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

          Slaves were only freed after the war, and despite what you may have been lead to believe, the North had slaves as well. The Underground Railroad didnt just lead to north of the Mason-Dixon, it lead to Canada, where former slaves could then re-enter the US as free imigrants.

          Historical accuracy, indeed.

          Cant only blame slavery on the South, not in fairness anyway. Its a guilt the entire nation bears, as well as the African slave traders who “sold” their own.

          • 0 avatar
            motavaper

            Yep, and before slavey was abolished a free black man could own property and hold political office, then taken away after the abolishment. When slavery was legal a white could be a slave from having accumulated too much debt, and some free black men owned slabes themselves. . In fact a lot of historians will even say during the formative days of the USA a black dude was equivalent to a president!

          • 0 avatar
            rocketrodeo

            Of course the entire nation was complicit in slavery. Only one part of it saw fit to go to war with the rest of the country to protect the capability to spread it. And the vast majority of slaves did a fine job of freeing themselves without waiting around for someone or something, like the 13th Amendment you seem to be alluding to, to free them.

          • 0 avatar
            motavaper

            Shit i go to work outside all day get burned to shit by the sun just to get food, clothes and shelter I don’t actualy own and then at end of the month I got nothing to show for it but the cloths on my back and roof over my head…. now explain to me the difference between that and going to work on a farm or whatever and at the end of the month not making and gains/money but have food clothing and shelter? Not much difference we r all slaves to our
            Stomach might as well b a slave on a farm and get fresh free munch. Some slaves even stayed on the farms after the abolishment because it was was there skill set. Shit I wouldn’t that offer almost I mean at least they could never get evicted or go hungry, and freeze 2 death. People take better care of there animals then they do there fellow man, and always are going feed and fuel there cattle and equipment….

          • 0 avatar

            What I find most interesting about slavery is that it ended (well, in the developed westernized world – there’s still slavery in places like the Sudan and Saudi Arabia). It was a nearly universal human practice going back to antiquity. William Wilberforce was quite the persuasive man.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            One might argue it was simply replaced by the more equal-to-all concept of debt slavery.

          • 0 avatar
            Lorenzo

            Ronnie, Wilberforce was very persuasive, but credit must be given to the Royal Navy. It was the navy that enforced the British ban on the slave trade, shutting down the pipeline from Africa by intercepting slave ships, fining the captains and sending the slaves back to Africa.

            Also thank the British Parliament that abolished slavery of Africans in its own Empire, and then decided it was a good idea for the rest of the world, whether the rest of the world wanted it abolished or not.

            Wilberforce persuaded the British government, but the government then used the persuasion of 102-gun ships of the line to shut down the African slave trade at its source.

        • 0 avatar
          motavaper

          If u think the U.S. Civil war was fought over the abolishment of slavery you must still believe in Santa clause and that the earth is flat…

          • 0 avatar
            clivesl

            Or you’ve read the Confederate Constitution and the writings of the leaders of the Confederacy.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I’m starting to think that Google must be banned in the South. These so-called “debates” could be ended permanently if people simply spent five minutes looking things up.

          • 0 avatar
            Exfordtech

            What, pray tell was it fought over?

    • 0 avatar
      carguy

      I don’t think the “Stars and Bars” is the flag you think it is.

      This is the Stars and Bars:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#/media/File:Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281861-1863%29.svg

      And this is the Confederate Battle Flag that you are most likely referring to:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#/media/File:Battle_flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America.svg

      Please get it right. Historical accuracy matters.

    • 0 avatar
      ChichiriMuyo

      Sorta weird you say that. Last time you saw a neurologist?

    • 0 avatar
      dantes_inferno

      > Really ride the wave.

      Until fuel prices begin their climb towards the stratosphere – biting those individuals (afflicted with “Little Dick Johnson Syndrome” – a.k.a. overcompensating for a perceived lack of manhood – which is mostly in one’s cranium) who indulge squarely in the @ss (wallet). That’s when the crying and complaining will begin (again), accompanied by the requisite increase of said vehicles available in used car classified ads (again).

      • 0 avatar
        RideHeight

        True enough but when you market to dummies their future is not your problem.

        Avoiding the taxes necessary to clean up after them is your problem.

  • avatar
    VoGo

    I blame Obama / CAFE

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      Cars are so boring and underpowered these days.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        Maybe you should learn how to maximise the most from what you drive.

        I would bet my balls the current vehicle you drive will perform far better than what you are able to extract from it.

        Horsepower is great to have, the ability to effectively manage the power is another issue. People who invest in horsepower for the bragging rights are more than likely the worst possible road users.

        Most people drive a vehicle that surpasses their capabilities.

  • avatar
    Truckducken

    If I get a pink one for my daughter, can I call it a HelloCat?

  • avatar
    klossfam

    As the owner of a 2014 RAM 1500 ‘Yeah…It’s got a HEMI in it’ I realize the Dodge division of FCA has gone HP CRAZY…But it’s a GOOD CRAZY…Especially with the mpg still returned courtesy of ZF’s 8 speed tranny…

  • avatar
    Hummer

    What’s not to love, the best looking cars on the road, plenty of power, a car with actual weight, good MPGs, lots of options, and they’re not awful blobs.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      Well, you aren’t wrong, but the build quality and fit & finish (on the one I bought anyway) is fairly disappointing.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      “Best looking?” That’s pretty subjective. The Challenger makes me want to poke my eyes out. It’s an unimaginative recreation of what was one of the uglier designs of the late ’60s. The Charger isn’t quite as bad but has horrendous details — that swoop in the side doesn’t fit at all, and the door handles look like they were placed on a clay model by a toddler.

      More power than anyone can ever use on a public road, with the attendant disadvantages in MPG and safety, but with no purpose. Only on a track is the difference between the Hellcat and the 392 of any use.

      Your “actual weight” is my “porky for no reason.” Porkiness makes sense on something like a luxury sedan or a HD truck. It’s bad on a sporty car.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        See, you miss the point.
        The challenger isn’t meant to tackle the “sporty” car arena. It’s a muscle car, straight lines, blistering power; but with personal coupe capability. It tackles two segments that have basically been abandoned, seeing that the Camaro and mustang are fighting for your sporty intentions.

        I’ll take the personal coupe that will get.

        I disagree on looks, the other two cars have the sporty intentions you love and they’re damn near invisible in traffic. Might as well buy a Camry and a S2K if that’s what you wanted.

        Doesn’t matter if it has more power than useable, it’s much nicer to have more than I need than not enough when I need it. Besides that’s why they offer a V6 as the standard option.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        “More power than anyone can ever use on a public road, with the attendant disadvantages in MPG and safety, but with no purpose.”

        You aren’t really being fair here. My R/T is hardly some fire-breathing death missile that gets 11MPG. The SRT8 isn’t either. The SE and SXT sure aren’t. Maybe the Hellcat is, but those are hardly the volume sellers. Plus, Don’t you own a G8 GXP as your personal car?

        “Porkiness makes sense on something like a luxury sedan or a HD truck. It’s bad on a sporty car.”

        In general the Charger, 300, and Challenger are a lot closer to “luxury sedan” than “sporty car”. Or, I guess into whatever class you would put a Monaco, New Yorker, or Cutlass Supreme.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          I thought we were specifically discussing the Hellcat. I’m good with anything up to SRT 392 levels of power. My G8 GXP is right at the level where I’ve never, ever wanted more power but it still takes some commitment, not just a moment of sloppiness, to wrap it around a tree.

          But I may not have the GXP all that much longer. I’ve been reevaluating my priorities a bit and am thinking seriously of going in a pretty radically different direction. I’ll probably submit an article to this place if I take the plunge. It would generate a really fun number of outraged comments.

      • 0 avatar
        RideHeight

        “The Challenger makes me want to poke my eyes out. It’s an unimaginative recreation of what was one of the uglier designs of the late ’60s.”

        Thou shameless villain!

  • avatar
    JimC2

    I gotta say, the engine installation in this looks tidy and just moderately crowded (moderately in terms of a modern car). Have any of our resident wrenchers, among the B&B, looked under the hood of one of these up close?

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      I’ve seen the 392 engine bay, it’s beautifully clean, I would probably be afraid of scratching the paint in the engine bay, but some leather covers would take care of that.

    • 0 avatar
      Ion

      At NYIAS. It’s definitely more roomy than the Camaro or Mustang and for extra brownie points it’s painted orange. No body seems to be painting engines these days so that Mopar orange is a nice subtle touch.

    • 0 avatar
      87 Morgan

      Up close and personal the engine bay looks tidy. No more or less cluttered than any other car these days. If you removed the cat from the side of the car the average passerby most likely would not be able to tell you the motor in question is a 700 HP monster.

      BTSR, can most likely answer this question….I don’t recall the standard 392 Hemi or ‘regular’ Hemi engines having the orange paint. Can someone clarify for me if this is a HellCat only feature?

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      Yessir. They are well packaged. A friend as a HC Charger and there is only nominally less space as compared to my N/A Hemi Challenger as far as serviceability goes.

  • avatar

    I’m sitting in something wet…

  • avatar
    Joss

    Still prefer Focus RS to mid-life crisis 70’s reboot.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

      There is room on this big ole planet for both. Theyre just different kinds of fun. :)

      You gotta hand it to Dodge for having the stones to build a 700+ hp car with a warranty. Same goes for Ford for selling a 9/10ths Baja truck with a warranty (Raptor) and a street legal rally car (RS).

      These are good times, indeed.

    • 0 avatar
      motavaper

      ^focus rs are super underrated, can u get them on U.S. soil yet or only Mexico still? I’m a big fan of knuckles on FWD, if only it had a wishbone!

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      Sure you do. That’s because you’re an internet car blogger. Will you and others like you plunk down 35k for an RS? I guess we’ll find out. But if history is any guide it’ll be a ’16-’17 only model, with the 425 cars they sell new trading on eBay among a tiny group of WRC Ford fans near its original MSRP over the next several years.

      Meanwhile, V-8 American muscle speaks to many Americans, particularly in NASCAR country. And enough will buy a car like the Hellcat to justify it, price be damned. Would I buy one? No. But at this point, I’ll cheer any successful product that isn’t a CUV or some minute variation of one.

  • avatar
    Spike_in_Brisbane

    Australia saw a backlash against muscle cars in the nineteen seventies as they became seen as irresponsible and dangerous for younger drivers. This resulted in the end of production of the Falcon GTHO, Monaro GTS and Charger R/T. Do you think such a reaction is likely in the USA given the very high power numbers now available cheaply?

    • 0 avatar
      JimC2

      A similar thing happened in the USA around the same time- most of the backlash was via insurance rates. Production didn’t end so much as it was curtailed by fuel prices and stricter emissions standards.

      I doubt we’ll see a renewed backlash though- because it would have happened by now if it were going to happen at all. I believe this because 400hp has been quite attainable in the last few years on the new car market (never mind the used market) and the doom-and-gloom predictions that numerous 500-700hp cars would frequently meet spectacular fiery demises have so far not come true.

    • 0 avatar

      #1 There’s been no rash of high speed muscle cars being crashed or killing innocent bystanders. It’s more likely that some young dummy will be in some P.O.S. Honda or Toyota, texting and slam into a family.

      #2 These cars are higher than $50,000 on average. Most younger buyers are so F’ed by student loans, they can’t even consider one of these cars. Hellcat’s retail way over $70,000 with no sign of cooling anytime soon.

      #3 we used to have a plethora of 4-door sedans with V8 engines. Now there are almost none that are affordable.

    • 0 avatar
      motavaper

      Yep, only 165hp from small block 350… Hard to wrap your mind around. I don’t place much faith in hp ratings, at all.

    • 0 avatar
      Eyeflyistheeye

      I have an Aussie friend who has had a life marred by poor decisions and perpetual bad luck. She came this close to getting killed as a passenger in a 1990s Commodore V8 driven by one of her like-minded friends bought on the cheap and crashed while hooning. Fortunately, she decided to do something else that night. Seeing how Australia never had the death of powerful, RWD V8 sedans until extremely recently, I can see the problem of having lots of powerful cars go for cheap.

      While we had something similar with the plethora of cheap V8 muscle cars in the 1990’s, that are now becoming out of favor for new/young drivers because of high fuel prices, the arguable gentrification of V8 muscle cars at least in my area with prices rising to ridiculous rates (I am not paying $12k for a 2001 Firebird V8) and a favorability towards compacts for young people.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        Australia also has hp, turbo, no of cylinders, etc limitations for the young and inexperienced. This along with absurdly high insurance rates makes it hard for the kids to end up in a vehicle that is far more powerful than they can responsibly operate, protecting not only themselves but others.

        There are even restrictions on the number of passengers and times passengers can be driven by a new driver. Motorbikes have similar restrictions.

        • 0 avatar
          motavaper

          Yeah it does the biggest stock pick up u can get I believe is the f250 in Australia and the country absolutes massive had 5 time zones so it’s gotta be bigger than us and there isn’t any People on most the continent. What is he talking about? I would be more worried about poisonous animals bugs and plants out there fo real that place is wild

      • 0 avatar
        motavaper

        This has got the be the dumbest comment on the thread what an a hole! They died becaus it was there time and it doesn’t snow in au why the fook would u want FWD? Plus new fwdfed cars do 0-35 way faster then any old commodore. That’s like blaming a god damn steak knife for slitting someone throat. Get off it how about u don’t worry about yound and other people in general you shill ass nanny and if u pay 12k for a 2001 anything you are a sucker 2! Sorry not sorry

        • 0 avatar
          Eyeflyistheeye

          So if I run you over with my car, would it be your time too? All your idiotic posts in this thread show you have no knowledge about cars or life. I probably toke more than you do and still manage to be a productive member of society.

          I’m usually an easy-going guy, but I’d really like to take your retarded ass and slam your face right into a door. I’m perfectly capable of doing so as well. Look around, everyone else here thinks you’re an idiot as well.

          • 0 avatar

            Eyeflyistheeye,

            I know he’s irritating, but try to avoid things that could be construed as threats of violence.

          • 0 avatar
            danio3834

            >I’m usually an easy-going guy, but I’d really like to take your retarded ass and slam your face right into a door. I’m perfectly capable of doing so as well.

            >I know he’s irritating, but try to avoid things that could be construed as threats of violence.

            Construed? Haha

            I have a feeling Eyefly’s time with us is limited. COME AT ME BRO.

        • 0 avatar

          motavaper,

          At TTAC we generally engage in a higher level of discourse than that. For the most part the folks who comment here are capable of disagreeing without being rude.

          Try to act like a grownup.

      • 0 avatar
        Superdessucke

        When the SUV fad was really kicking into high gear, many also foresaw a huge problem of lots of very heavy and rollover prone vehicles selling used for cheap. That happened and our roads have been graced by some really laughably maintained and operated versions of these pigs for some years now. But the 1990s and early 2000s giants are (thankfully) nearing the end of their useful lives and I don’t think there’s been a scourge of deaths resulting from them.

        When we’re talking cars like the Hellcat, there’s comparatively few of them and they’re likely to retain high prices. Sure, some moron rich kid might drive one off a private jet runway while trying to hit 170 MPH with 4 other pretty Trixies and Chads inside, or something like that. It’ll make headlines, and will make us all sad, but it will have very little impact on the day to day driving of all us Joe Schmos.

    • 0 avatar
      GeneralMalaise

      Yes, if Pajama Boy and Julia are able to gain traction…

  • avatar
    motavaper

    Ha there is always Mary k escalade or something at the mall! I want to see a mid engine or rear engine from mopar the new Chryslers always seem laggy on the highway to me and just make loud sounds and don’t really move up hill right. Some of the engines are made by Mercedes or some bull crap and there transmissions are disposable. Putting a big heavy engine in the hood of your car is in medicine and boring in a new car and doesn’t really make sense from an engineering stand point… Inefficient. Nothing’s better then the real thing Detroit steal is the only muscle worth the hustle… Best lines they had…

  • avatar
    sportsuburbangt

    Interesting article. One correction the Hellcat engine is assembled in the USA. The Hellcat is assembled in Canada.

    The Hellcat is the most American Challenger/Charger being produced.

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      The 6.2 Hellcat engine is produced in Mexico. (Source: Chrysler)

      http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do?id=333&mid=105

      Saltillo Engine produces every single HEMI V-8.

      Trenton, Mack Avenue and Dundee do not produce any V-8 engines. Conner Ave, produces the Viper and the V-10.

  • avatar
    Eyeflyistheeye

    How ironic is it that the only one of the Detroit 3 owned by Europeans (one can argue that Ford and GM have let their European divisions take them over from within, at least in passenger cars) is the one building the worst compact cars of the group and the best RWD American muscle?

    I’m not a fan of FCA, but I hope they survive for the simple reason that I don’t want the only domestic-branded non luxury “muscle sedans” to be an Impala 3.6 and a Fusion EcoBoost 2.0.

    That’s another problem with CAFE. GM and Ford are content to sell economical FWD sedans while FCA is the only company selling mainstream RWD sedans. People aren’t suddenly going to give up and buy a Camry if they make it harder for FCA to sell RWD sedans.

    • 0 avatar
      motavaper

      Amen, brother preach on!
      real cars don’t have Bluetooth, and I never needed a computer for my traction. aid my steering, or, help me park, etc.

  • avatar
    motavaper

    I definitely wouldn’t kick her out of my bed for eating cookies and leaving crumbs in the sheets!

  • avatar
    probert

    Great indicator that the gas tax should be raised. This and the charming habit of leaving the car running while at the convenience store so the AC keeps things cool. People must be flush – and the oil is flowing nice and easy. Happy 4th.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I agree with you that it is a waste and I don’t like it either, but I disagree on your solution. A passive solution such as an automatic shutoff after 5 five minutes of idling in park (or something to this effect) accomplishes the same goal.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        I would presume that his gripe is with the level of fuel consumption inherent to 700+ hp motors.

        If CAFE was intended to curtail the volumes of that sort of thing (and it was), then it clearly isn’t that effective (although the latest version of CAFE with its platform-driven requirements is probably motivating automakers to do their best to maximize the efficiency of what they are producing.)

        Basic laws of economics would suggest that the most, er, efficient way to reduce demand for a good is to make it more expensive. In this case, that would mean taxing the cars and/or the fuel, with the latter approach being more effective.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        I’d vastly rather pay a higher gas tax than have my car undefeatably shut off when I’m waiting for someone in hot weather.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      So since others have the means to afford fuel, it’s not fair to you? Seems kind of selfish, no?

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Some people believe that it is bad to be wasteful. Obviously, you are not one of those people.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          First, can we stop scapegoating “wastefulness” as the issue because it has nothing to do with that. If your on this site it’s because you enjoy cars, regardless if your car of choice is electric or ICE, they both require extensive use of crude oil. The first step to showing concern of improper use of fuel would be finding a cause that represents your beliefs, cars aren’t exactly in that pool.

          Using “wastefulness” as a way to show your displeasure in this situation is shallow. These cars are going to be driven very little, they will average about the same MPG as the ~1.5-2Million trucks that will be produced this year, and all of them together will be about 2 MPG shy of all the Large CUVs and minivans produced this year. This is the definition of insignificant. This has more to do with class warfare directed at the middle class than it has to do with any resource conservation or environmental issue.

          • 0 avatar
            Power6

            We pay for CAFE in the price of the cars, the lost driveability and real world mileage due to EPA test gaming, and the distortion of product choice becuas of the footprint based rules.

            Id rather pay that cost in a higher gas tax and have better cars. Hummer are you saying you like the complex CAFE solution better?

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            “This has more to do with class warfare directed at the middle class…”

            Nobody’s at war with anybody.

            People haven’t been fond of greed and gluttony for quite a long time. (Go type “seven deadly sins” into your favorite search engine, and you’ll see that those are two of them.) They just think that the gas guzzler is a jerk, the obnoxious guy at the party who likes to annoy people and won’t shut up.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Power

            Your insinuating that creating a gas tax will result in CAFE being removed, it won’t. If one believes that the automotive world is to be completely homogenized in the close future, then one would be mad for supporting such an idea. It’s safer to dismantle CAFE and perhaps implement a softer approach, but trading one evil for another will not happen, we’ll be stuck with both.

            What defines a “better” car to you? Does said car exist anywhere on the earth in a modern interpretation? Does said car sell well enough to justify its continued existence for the foreseeable future? If it doesn’t exist now, you can bet money it won’t exist in the future with higher fuel taxes. While our automotive legislation is regressive and unhealthy to the economy, it is, at the end of the day, the best system in place for the middle class anywhere in the world.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            “We pay for CAFE in the price of the cars, the lost driveability and real world mileage due to EPA test gaming, and the distortion of product choice becuas of the footprint based rules.”

            You live during an era when a Honda Accord is quicker than an old muscle car. As I’ve noted here before, the 6-cylinder Japanese cute utes were as quick as a mid-80s Ferrari.

            A Hellcat is slightly quicker than the very exotic, limited edition Porsche 959 and at a third of the price, not even adjusted for inflation. We really have nothing to complain about.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            “People haven’t been fond of greed and gluttony for quite a long time. (Go type “seven deadly sins” into your favorite search engine, and you’ll see that those are two of them.) They just think that the gas guzzler is a jerk, the obnoxious guy at the party who likes to annoy people and won’t shut up.”

            Despite your analysis being wrong, this isn’t about me. Fuel taxes affect everyone.
            If we’re going to bring the seven deadly sins into this, we could point out OPs senseless anger for people he doesn’t know.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            The OP doesn’t seem angry, but you sure are defensive.

            He doesn’t like wastefulness. Neither did my grandmother. She grew up during the Depression, and responded negatively toward those who would openly squander and waste things — as was the case with many of her generation, it irked her to see people p**s through stuff because she believed that it showed that they didn’t appreciate them.

            You think that you are entitled to consume with abandon, but others find that behavior to be obnoxious. The sentiment isn’t new, obviously, but it does seem to have skipped a couple of generations of Americans.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            And here we are again, your ignoring the entire point to go on the offensive with me. I’m sure your grandmother didn’t believe she was giving too little of her families income to the government.

            We all understand the severity of the Great Depression it was only but a couple generations ago, the lessons taught by those who lived in it, and those who were raised by the products of it, still teach us today. I don’t believe you took from it the same as many other Americans have. Though, no one that didn’t live through the Great Depression is one to say whether that’s good or bad.
            The muscle car generation was certainly influenced by the products of the Great Depression, that should say something.
            It is my opinion we should celebrate the good times, that isn’t gluttonous unless you make it that way, which I do not. Life isn’t always sunshine and roses, if you live your entire life without any excitement, well… I guess that’s why we have narcotic addicts.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Everyone gets your point. You want to consume more, while others find your love of consumption for its own sake to be provincial and distasteful.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Your not doing yourself any favors here.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            A guy who brags about having a Hummer isn’t exactly hitting home runs in the self-perception department.

            You do realize that a lot of people think that Hummer drivers are a**holes, right?

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Hummer, there are a whole lot of people out there on both sides of the political divide who favor exactly that — the outright *replacement* of CAFE with a gas tax, phased in over a decade or so, set at a level where it would bring the same consumption benefits. Fair warning: that’s probably an additional $1.50 or so a gallon.

            That would free up the automakers to develop products much better suited to the market, preserve people’s ability to buy big gas guzzlers if that is important enough to them to pay the tax, drastically reduce the cost of compliance and the complexity of administration, and bring the same environmental benefit.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            I agree with dal20402 regarding CAFE and the use of a fuel exise to influence behaviour.

            CAFE is a costly exercise. A simple fuel tax with emissions based on BTUs is the best method to employ. It is by far much cheaper to manage and the government might end up with more money to improve infrastructure.

            This will maintain the option for those who want more power.

            Another area that could use some change is the influence the energy industry has in the US in formulating policy.

            An increase in the fuel tax must be carried out in such a way as to alloz manufacturers to adjust to the changing market.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            “A guy who brags about having a Hummer isn’t exactly hitting home runs in the self-perception department.

            You do realize that a lot of people think that Hummer drivers are a**holes, right?”

            First, here no, Ive been given many compliments, and in about 12 years only one “look”. Honestly, someone that reads a book by its cover, or forms opinions based on stereotypes, isn’t exactly the kind of person I would care to be around anyhow. And if those people seek out to hate me, because of what I drive, no big loss. Since you have made this about me…

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            “Hummer, there are a whole lot of people out there on both sides of the political divide who favor exactly that — the outright *replacement* of CAFE with a gas tax, phased in over a decade or so, set at a level where it would bring the same consumption benefits. Fair warning: that’s probably an additional $1.50 or so a gallon.

            That would free up the automakers to develop products much better suited to the market, preserve people’s ability to buy big gas guzzlers if that is important enough to them to pay the tax, drastically reduce the cost of compliance and the complexity of administration, and bring the same environmental benefit.”

            —-
            While I’m not against the idea, I don’t trust that it could be handled and carried out in our best interest. A fuel tax that increases by $1.50, all of a sudden isn’t enough. Or in California’s recent fuel tax increase, is masked in a way to seem less than the actual amount of increase. And as I pointed out above, dismantling CAFE would be hard to conceive as big as it is. The general pattern with the government is more regulation, not less.

            I go back to my previous point, I don’t see manufacturers increasing the availability of cars one hopes to see this change bring. As is now the only vehicles getting less than 20 MPG, that aren’t work trucks, cost upward of $50k. While $50k isn’t going to break the bank, it will certainly keep me in my older vehicles longer while I decide if said vehicle is worth my money.
            Another point, CAFE affects me once, and only affects new buyers, fuel taxes continually affect all of us. But I do see your reasoning.

    • 0 avatar
      George B

      Probert, I thoroughly and completely reject your premise. The purpose of taxes is to raise revenue. Period. While we likely need to raise the tax on gasoline, crumbling roads, not the presence of a low-volume powerful collector car, would be the best indicator.

      • 0 avatar
        05lgt

        And the purpose of tax breaks? Of course tax policy seeks to drive behavior. No other reason for a capital gains tax that’s not just income tax. It’s to increase invenstment; otherwise it’s just a giant givaway that mostly benifits the wealthiest, and we’d never allow that.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “The purpose of taxes is to raise revenue. Period.”

        You are confusing your wishful thinking with reality. There are multitudes of reasons for taxes and tax rates being what they are, revenue collection being only one of them.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        George B,
        You view of taxation is erroneous and very genralised to fit into your political views.

        Tax is also used to not collect revenue, ie, The Chicken Tax for starters is designed to stop the importation of competitive product.

        Tax is also used to adjust and modify behaviour, sometimes it works and sometime it does not, ie, tabacco and alcohol excise. Even parking meters are used to modify behaviour and with the added bonus of raising little revenue.

        I would use wikipedia and research taxation and its effects.

        I am starting to worry twice in one article I agree with Pch101.

  • avatar
    WhiskeyRiver

    If and when FCA Chrysler produces a 300 SRT Hellcat with every available luxury item, I’ll buy one.

    I’m too old to own any modern automobile without bluetooth, navigation, backup camera, proximity sensors and a whole crapload of computers to summon on a whim.

    If they revive the rich Corinthian leather, it’s more than a done deal.

  • avatar
    Power6

    When they say “muscle cars” does that mean V8 models only? If so that is a lot of V8s.

    What this says to me, is the luxury marques are missing the boat with their down sized engines, in some part. I mean what is more desirable a hemi 300C or a 3.6 Cadillac CTS. Jack was right Caddy should have focused on building small V8s across their lineup.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    crunch crunch crunch crunch

    Seriously good popcorn reading

    crunch crunch crunch crunch

    Slavery, Obama, reasons for war, debt slavery, threats, Australian auto safety history…

    crunch crunch crunch crunch

    This story really brought out the best in people.

    crunch crunch crunch crunch

    Wow, great popcorn.

  • avatar
    TMA1

    Now I know why I can’t find the Scat Pack Challenger I’ve been looking for, and why dealers have been so unhelpful.

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