By on May 11, 2015

Volkswagen 6.0 W12 TSI TTAC Style

Volkswagen’s new 6.0-liter W12 TSI made its global debut at the 36th International Vienna Motor Symposium last Friday.

The next-gen W12 combines Audi’s FSI direct injection and Bentley’s TMPI multi-point injection systems together, and is augmented by a pair of twin-scroll turbochargers, an oil circuit for off-road applications, APS-coated cylinders, active engine mounts with hydraulic basic damping, cooling with integrated temperature management, cylinder deactivation, and start-stop.

Power output for the W12 comes to 600 horses and 664 lb-ft of torque, slotting between the mills used by the Bentley Continental GT W12 and GT Speed on the power scale.

Depending on the application, the new engine could move a vehicle from nil to 62 mph in under four seconds, with top speeds reaching 186 mph.

[Photo credit: Volkswagen]

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52 Comments on “Volkswagen Unveils New W12 At Vienna Motor Symposium...”


  • avatar
    jaybird124

    Weight?

  • avatar
    Chocolatedeath

    My what a big piston you have. Anyway, with all the tech baked in is this suppose to get the MPG of an 8 cylinder with the power of a NA 12.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Off road applications?

    You mean for the Bentley SUV that will be even less likely to go off road than the typical poser-mobile?

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      Many “poser mobiles ” in the U.S., such as the Toyota Landcruiser are taken off road outside the U.S.and they are very effective as Off Road vehicles

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        Which has f-all to do with the *Bentley*, however.

        (Plus the J70 LandCruiser with worldwide still-on-sale offorad chops is not the J200 “poser” the US gets.

        Not that the J200 can’t handle some dirt, but … not the same car, not remotely.)

    • 0 avatar
      heavy handle

      “even less likely to go off road than the typical poser-mobile?”

      I suppose that one of the big markets for this thing will be in Gulf oil states, so we are bound to see it surfing sand dunes on Youtube.

  • avatar
    RobertRyan

    “an oil circuit for off-road applications, APS-coated cylinders, active engine ” a 600hp, 664lbs ft SUV? This is not going into the Golf

  • avatar
    Hummer

    Displacement, not cylinders create excitement, it would also give decent HP numbers. We’ve been stuck in this 500-600 max HP range for too long now, it’s time to stop thumbing around and move on up.

    I’d rather a 8-liter 4 cylinder than a 5-liter 8 cylinder

    • 0 avatar

      I’d love to see a 3.0-liter V10 in a Formula 1 car again but that isn’t happening.

    • 0 avatar
      TW5

      The H1 is a 6.6L engine with no excitement. Engine dynamics are more complicated than displacement.

    • 0 avatar
      FormerFF

      8 liter four cylinder? Hang onto your fillings, it would shake more than all the Harleys in Daytona Beach during Bike Week.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Ehh, I was being facetious, it’s just disappointing for me to see all that engineering go into building an engine that, for one, slots into an industry that (I’m pretty sure) another company has similar displacement and cyclinder count. And more importantly, is suppose to represent a luxury option, which is hard when it compares to the poverty spec 4 cylinders when cylinder to liter is considered.

        VWs 2.0T is 210HP- 207 TQ
        Fords 2.0T is 240 HP – 270 TQ (twin turbo?)

        Either way, it appears engine tech is coming out of the 4 cylinders and going into the 12, which imo is unacceptable.

        Edit: Yep; BMW, Mercedes, Jag, even Audi, have used 6.0 V12s, so what does VW do? Copycat engine of course, because the world needs more 6.0L V12, that lack major mechanical difference other than DI from other iterations.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          Excuse me, W12, which isn’t new in itself, but makes it a bit more complex, for, again, next to no appreciable gain over a similarly small V12, or a more appropriately sized V8.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            Well, what are you going to do? Volkswagen is gonna Volkswagen.

            It’s a bigger issue for me when GM tries to do this kind of thing.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            “It’s a bigger issue for me when GM tries to do this kind of thing.”

            GM stopped doing this kind of thing after the 350 diesel and 4,6,8 caddies. Though I suppose one could argue with the failure rate and Mercedes like repair costs of the current cyclinder deactivation, they’re at it again.

            Edit: Though I suppose Northstar could also count, while we’re on it.

        • 0 avatar
          Vega

          In the Golf R, VW has a 2.0T with 292hp and 280 TQ

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      Considering the balancing issues of 4s at that size, you would not, in fact, actually prefer that I think.

      Now, an 8 liter *6*…

    • 0 avatar
      wmba

      “I’d rather a 8-liter 4 cylinder than a 5-liter 8 cylinder”

      Admit it, you want to fondle the gigantic balance shafts an 8 litre 4 cylinder would need to have any semblance of smoothness. That’s it, isn’t it?

  • avatar
    ellomdian

    So, Top-of-the-line Bentley’s, A8’s and the Phaeton? How many of these engines are they planning to manufacture – 17?

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      Well, they sell about 6k A8s in the US every year, not to mention their EU sales.

      So, probably more than 17, though I can’t imagine the take rate will be *high*.

  • avatar
    Chan

    The fact that VW can still justify this engine is astounding.

    Take the suspect reputation of VW’s gas engines (although I can’t speak directly for the VR6 line), throw some turbos on it, and of course let’s multiply all that by 2.

    Used car values of W-engined VWs continue to plummet.

    • 0 avatar
      hgrunt

      The cost is probably being amortized over several models, and a couple generations of those models. Future proofing, in a way, by building a really strong foundation, and not having to tweak it a lot over a period of time.

      All the modern tech, like FSI, turbos, and cylinder deactivation, lets them meet their power and efficiency goals, as well as giving them a lot of room to simply turn up the boost each year, or whenever they want to sell a high-margin special edition…speaking of which, the thing that justifies these engines is that the cars they’ll end up in, will have the profit margins to support this engine’s existence.

      The one I’m *really* surprised about, is the BMW V12, since they’re made, and only really go into a maybe two models of car.

      The resale values are secondary, since they’ve already made the money.

      • 0 avatar
        Chan

        Right, I’m not trying to relate used car values to the business plan in any way.

        But this is a seriously low-volume engine for a high-volume car company, and putting this thing in a few Bentleys and Phaetons is probably not an impressive file at the accounting department.

        They’re banking on high-margin models selling to customers that are sensitive to cylinder count. It may be the case, but who knows for how long?

  • avatar
    MRF 95 T-Bird

    Timing belt or chain? It matters when its time for servicing. A $1-2k service bill vs several thousand.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “It matters when its time for servicing.”

      I’ve never heard of a timing chain with a service or inspection interval like on a timing belt. If a timing chain requires work during the life of the vehicle then I would consider that a mechanical failure/repair situation not “servicing”.

      Because this is a VW W12, it probably has two timing belts AND a timing chain.

      • 0 avatar
        MRF 95 T-Bird

        Apparently the Audi V8 is known for chewing up chain tensioners. The lifespan of a timing chain on a average vehicle is at least 200k. Today I saw a late model Town Car 4.6 having a replacement installed at 300k.

    • 0 avatar
      hgrunt

      Probably timing chains, as the base architecture for the W engines most often look like the timing-chain’d VR6. The cars that this motor will end up in, will not be cars where the owners will be very sensitive to the cost of service.

    • 0 avatar
      Fred

      If you can afford the car this engine goes into, the cost to replace a timing belt or chain is of little concern.

  • avatar
    ravenchris

    This engine reminds me of those great radial engines, before they became antiques.

    • 0 avatar
      schmitt trigger

      +1 Exactly!
      Let’s install a Pratt & Whitney Wasp Major engine instead.
      From Wikipedia:
      “Although mechanically reliable in flight, it developed an unenviable reputation for in-flight fires, particularly in its Boeing Stratocruiser application, and in addition the Wasp Major was maintenance-intensive. Improper starting technique could foul all 56 spark plugs”

  • avatar
    CarPerson

    Stuff that bad boy into a GTI, slap $10K onto the sticker, and sit back and watch a Hellcat-style reaction.

    Did I mention an 8-speed stick?

    VW is on the cusp of a real game changer. Think they will see it?

    • 0 avatar
      JimC2

      8-speed stick… Only if it’s a split-shift, mwuahahahaha! And this engine in a GTI, they should have a “Quebec Special Edition” with heads based on the 8V 115hp 2.0. Mwuahahahaha again!

  • avatar
    mfh

    This smells of the next VW Qauntum lump to soon refail in the market. This has the scent of Piech in it.

  • avatar
    VW16v

    The real news was no included in this article. VW introduced a 1.0L what puts out a 268HP.

  • avatar
    Pig_Iron

    Image if they put that much effort into improving quality and understanding the American market.

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    I have several questions……

    Timing belt, timing chain, maintenance intervals: do the buyers/leasee of the vehicle in question keep the car long enough to have that concern? Seems like that is the second owners problem.

    A comment was made: essentially indicating people care about cylinder count, seemingly above 8? I have never met anyone who was insistent they have a v12 or w12. I can’t say that I have ever met anyone who owned a carwith greater than 10 cylinders: Viper. I know a bunch with the v10 ford buts suspect this mill in the article will not find its way into a 1 ton anything. I could be wrong though.

    This seems like an awful lot of engineering and expense to produce 600 hp from a really complicated mill. 600 hp is really not that hard to produce anymore with 8 or more, I suppose, Pistons. I would think the buyer for the car this will go into would have less forgiveness for temperamental quirkiness than say someone like myself who still considers a GM v8 to be the best available option for reliable HP.

    Help me understand what question this motor answers.

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