By on May 7, 2015

PSA Ford TTAC Style

A tie-up between PSA Peugeot-Citroën and Ford involving small diesel engines will be extended in time for the former’s new diesel family debut.

The extension comes ahead of PSA’s new DV-R diesels’ showroom debut, set for 2017 through 2018, Automotive News Europe reports. Variants of the DV-R family, which all will be compliant with Euro 6.2 emissions standards set to go into effect by 2017, will find their way into Ford models at the same time.

PSA is investing €60 million ($67.4 million USD) into producing 640,000 units of the engines per year in Douvrin, France starting in 2017, with 640,000 more to depart annually from Tremery, France from 2018 forward. Some of those engines will head across the Channel to a Ford facility in the United Kingdom for final assembly beginning in the same period.

The partnership between the two automakers has been ongoing since 1998, though Ford dropped PSA diesels above 2.0 liters in displacement in 2012 when PSA was briefly tied-up with General Motors.

The latest extension is expected to be signed this summer, ensuring the partnership lasts beyond the 2017 deadline for the current agreement.

[Image credit: PSA Peugeot-Citroën and Ford]

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48 Comments on “PSA Peugeot-Citroën, Ford Renewing Small Diesel Engine Tie-Up...”


  • avatar
    jrmason

    They need to make their way across the big channel to the states.

    • 0 avatar
      raph

      See brown station wagons with manual transmissions.

      There is no compelling reason to bring the engine over here. The fringe is served mostly by Volkswagen it seems and the rest by domestic bro-dozer offerings

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      They won’t. Unless it’s a truck or SUV, Ford has zero interest selling diesel powered vehicles in the US. Look for a ground up hybrid before a diesel Focus or Fusion.

  • avatar
    jrmason

    “There is no compelling reason to bring the engine over here.”

    That’s your opinion, but does not reflect the same feelings of many. And manufacturers are slowly listening with the addition one or two models every year in diesel form. The next “brodozer” will be in the form of the Mazda 6 with SKYACTIV-D and an Audi Q7 diesel hybrid, among others I’m sure.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

      Ask GM about all the people supposedly lined up to buy diesel cars. Im sure theyd like to find them. Cruze diesel sales are about as robust as Christmas tree sales in July. Its not that its the car’s fault, either, as the gasoline version sells pretty well.

      Look, I like diesels, but the fact is, the general buying public on this continent shuns them as far as passenger cars are concerned. I seriously doubt the next Cruze will have a diesel option in the North American market. Id like to see a 50 mpg Fiesta diesel, but I wouldnt bet on it.

      I look forward to the Colorado/Canyon diesel, and I (along with GM Im sure) hope that the alternative fuel will be more popular in pickup truck form than it has been in the Cruze.

      Mazda has been promising a 6 diesel for North America since the current model debuted, it seems less and less likely with each passing day.

      • 0 avatar
        Carrera

        JohnTaurus,
        The reason why Chevy Cruze is not selling is because the engine is in the wrong car. If GM offered it in theMalibu or Impala it would have sold much better. There is no room in that back seat. Also, unlike Jetta, the diesel is only offered for the top of the line model. Who wants to pay 25k for a small car, Diesel engine or not?

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          Ain’t no one gonna to buy a diesel Malibu or Impala. Get outta here with that.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            If things had gotten so out of hand with them in 08, I would have been interested. Now diesel seems its more of a liability than anything.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          The key to selling diesels is to sell them somewhere else.

        • 0 avatar
          derekson

          The diesel Cruze didn’t sell because almost all buyers who are interested in diesel passenger cars want European badges. It has nothing to do with any qualities of the Cruze other than the bow tie on the hood.

          • 0 avatar
            Carrera

            Not necessarily Derekson. Most people don’t buy diesel vehicles because they are European. They are afraid of reliability problems associated with those brands. If Honda, Toyota and Subaru would bring their European offerings here, you would see a much higher purchase rate. When your only choices are VW and the other luxury German brands, how many takers are you going to have? I don’t have 50K to drop on a diesel BMW and honestly I am skittish about VW. I would gladly drop $ 25-30K on a diesel Honda or Mazda though.

          • 0 avatar
            derekson

            I’m not saying that they buy diesels *because* they’re European cars; I’m saying that there is a very large correlation between diesel buyers and buyers who prefer European brands.

            Some of that may be buyers wanting the most reliable and durable version of those cars, possibly due to past issues with cars of the brands. But generally I think it’s mostly just that buyers who want diesel in a car also want other qualities that are valued in Europe so they buy an Audi or a BMW or a VW with a diesel while they probably wouldn’t even consider a CTS or a Cruze with a Diesel engine. Ford could possibly get some sales since their small cars are actually European designs though.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Let’s check with Mazda corporate about when the diesel Mazda6 is coming to the US….

      (dialtone)

      So much for that Spring 2013 launch date.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        @bball40dtw,
        I don’t think the Skyactive diesel from Mazda will be hitting the US market for some time.

        It’s technically very challenging for Mazda to build the diesel and produce the same outcomes as the EU/global Skyactive diesels have achieved.

        The biggest technical thorn for Mazda is the Skyactive diesel relies on running a very low 14:1 compression with the Skyactive.

        US diesel quality will make this near on impossible. It cetane value is to low to run such low compression ratios.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          I’ve heard a lot of reasons why they haven’t brought it over yet. Some people say the quality of US diesel. Some say US diesel emmissions standards. Some say performance, And some say reliability.

          All I know is it isn’t happening for awhile. I’d bet the diesel doesn’t make it into the Mazda6 here until at least after a refresh.

      • 0 avatar
        jrmason

        You must know more than Jim O’Sullivan. He was quoted in March in an interview confirming the Mazda 6 “in the near future”.

        BMW, General Motors, Ram, Jeep, Mercedes, and Porsche have all released new diesel power in the last 2 years. Range Rover is slated to release a model later this year. Y’all can hate on diesel as much as you want, it doesnt change the fact that its picking up in popularity. Its here to stay.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          It has been the near future for two years. Since they haven’t announced anything in months, the near future will continue to be vague and non committal.

          Diesel has nowhere to go but up in the US. I think more vehicles will get diesel options, but let’s not pretend that it’s selling in significant numbers.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          The take rate is declining. Offering it and getting consumers to pay for it are two entirely different matters.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          @jrmason,
          I’m a supporter of diesel.

          As for Pch1o1, well ask him if his data is for cars or for cars and trucks. When I state “trucks” it covers vehicles such as CUVs, SUVs and pickups, which are in effect cars.

          Pch1o1 tends to skew his arguments purposely to mislead.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      The US take rate for diesels (excluding pickups) is less than 1% and falling. There is no market for this.

      • 0 avatar
        jrmason

        “The US take rate for diesels (excluding pickups) is less than 1% and falling. There is no market for this.”

        Try not to get your personal views mixed up with facts. Diesel sales increased 25% in 2014 while over all the market only increased by 4.2% You can wish and hate all you want but it doesn’t change the facts.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          Take rate = market share.

          2013: 137,633 “clean diesel” units out of total market of 15,531,706 = 0.89%

          2014: 138,174 “clean diesel” units out of total market of 16,435,286 = 0.84%

          http://www.hybridcars.com/december-2014-dashboard/

          0.84% < 0.89%

          The overall vehicle market grew by almost 904k units, while “clean diesel” sales were up by 541 units.

          Take rate is down.

          The facts are what they are.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            Yep.

            http://www.statista.com/statistics/387314/sales-of-clean-diesel-cars-in-the-united-states/

            http://www.dieselforum.org/index.cfm?objectid=5AC6B595-078E-11E4-91B7000C296BA163

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            You didn’t provide a source. You provided a chart with no references.

            Hybrid Cars tracks this stuff in detail, by make and model. If there is a vehicle that it omitted or if it made an error, then identify it specifically.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            If you even bothered to read it, which you obviously didn’t, they sited Hybrid Cars as the source. So if my chart isnt reliable, than neither is yours.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Er, that’s not how it works.

            I went directly to the source. It is what it is.

            If your numbers are supposedly from the same source but they don’t match, then the screw up is obviously with your source and its failure to get it right.

            If a newspaper misquotes somebody, then that’s the fault of the newspaper for not correctly transcribing what was said, not the fault of the person who was misquoted.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            That’s OK, keep your blinders on. The info is out there and all sources point to the same end result. Hybrid Cars is not the gospel, even if it is in your biased world.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            In other words, you can’t handle the truth.

            In your effort to prove your point, you’re betraying your lack of adeptness with statistics.

            Your second link to Diesel Forum is making month-over-month comparisons for each of the first six months of 2014.

            I provided year-over-year comparisons for the full years of 2013 and 2014. So they aren’t even comparing the same things. Comparing full years is more relevant and useful.

            I don’t know where Statista is getting its numbers, but it presumably includes pickups. Notice my comments about Hybrid Cars excluding pickups from its reporting.

            Unless you have proof that Hybrid Cars is inaccurate, you have nothing to whine about.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            And where does Hybrid cars get its info from that you liken them to the bible? You do realize its hard for the average man to have much faith in a website named Hybrid cars don’t you? Think they might have some biased opinions?

            Try broadening your search.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            So am I supposed to “broaden my search” by including Diesel Forum, which also uses Hybrid Cars for its data, or should I refer to Statista, which cites no sources at all?

            I should also note that the Diesel Technology Forum is a trade organization that includes Daimler, FCA, GM, VW and Volvo as its members. If Hybrid Cars is supposedly so unreliable, then why is the Diesel Technology Forum relying upon Hybrid Cars to report sales data?

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            Your right. Much better to directly quote a website composed of a bunch of journalists rather than indirectly. What was I ever thinking.

            And I suppose you know better than the manufacturers who are investing millions into bringing new diesel models to the US. If only they had your wisdom.

            Diesel is dead

            http://www.dieselforum.org/news/california-texas-and-florida-continue-to-lead-u-s-in-fuel-efficient-clean-diesel-and-hybrid-vehicle-registrations

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Yes, it’s shocking that the three most populous states in the US would also be the three states that buy the most diesels. I would imagine that they also buy the most gasoline powered cars, the most fast food and the most toilet paper.

            The fact remains that the US take rate for diesel passenger cars in 2014 was lower than it was the year before. Despite all of your drama and hysterics, you have done absolutely nothing to disprove that point.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            Once again you didn’t make it past the headlines. How disappointing.

            “Cars and SUVs with diesel engines have increased 47.6 percent since 2010 while hybrid car and SUVs increased 89.4 percent. The overall car and SUV market increased only 6.4 percent during the same period.”

            You never answered me when I asked you where Hybrid cars gets their data from. “Academic institutions and industry analysts” according to their web page. Which sources exactly are those? Being the website consists of self described journalists I think its safe to say their findings may not be all inclusive, particularly when manufacturers are posting sales volume increases year over year.

            Drama and hysterics? I truly pity you if you consider any of this drama. What a dull life that must be.
            Furthermore, its become quite obvious you have no desire to see the big picture for what it is. Not once did I ever claim diesel will be the next big thing, nor will it ever compete with gas powered engines thanks to govt regs and taxes. But by no means is it going anywhere as your posts indicate. Year over year sales increases are proof of that.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I double checked. 0.84% is still less than 0.89%.

            If you want to know where Hybrid Cars gets its data, then read it. (It’s clearly stated at the top of the article.)

            The Diesel Technology Forum that you like so much is happy to cite the data from Hybrid Cars.

            The Diesel Technology Forum includes FCA, GM, Volvo and VW among its members. I’m pretty sure that those automakers, all of which know exactly what they produced themselves, would avoid citing Hybrid Cars as a source and would correct the numbers if Hybrid Cars was wrong.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            And the data states that sales volume increased year over year. No doom and gloom. Simple enough.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Take rate, take rate, take rate.

            Of course, the 541 unit increase between 2013 and 2014 must have the auto industry hanging on the edge of its seats.

            At this point, it should be obvious why Ford would not bring this motor to the United States.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Diesel-powered passenger vehicles have a U.S. market share of roughly 2.8%, up from 2.5% in 2010 based on registration statistics compiled by IHS Automotive.

            http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2014/07/14/can-diesel-cars-make-inroads-in-america/

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            You seem awfully fixed on a set of numbers that have little meaning to the subject at hand. If diesel sales have been on a consistent rise for the past 4 years regardless of how small the gains are, how are you concluding that there is no future? I’ll give you one hint at why diesel isnt going anywhere: 2025 cafe standards. And they can now do it cleaner than the Prius.

            http://www.dieselforum.org/index.cfm?objectid=036E63D6-E445-11E4-90F1000C296BA163

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            The particulates must be doing something to your reading skills.

            Nobody said anything about it going away. That’s entirely in your head. You made it up.

            You began this whole thing by claiming that Ford should import the thing.

            Several of us pointed out that there is insufficient demand to justify such a move.

            In order to educate you as to the nature of the problem, I have provided you with two years of sales numbers and their relative market share. The numbers are not big.

            Those small numbers help to explain why I have claimed that there is inadequate demand, why others here have also claimed that there is a lack of demand, and why Ford is wise to not import this.

            This bit of factual news, for whatever reason, is impossible for you to stomach. This appears to be some sort of personal problem that extends well beyond the technology itself.

            As for CAFE, I’ve made that same point myself elsewhere on this website. And ironically, it proves my point — automakers are adding more diesels to their US lineups because they have to attempt to comply with the rules, not because consumers want them. The decision to offer more diesels does not reflect consumer demand.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            Personal problem? First I’m being dramatic and hysterical and now Ive got a personal problem with the year over year sales increases in diesels? WTF? Are you actually being serious or is this some form of sick entertainment for you? Again, your take rate number you keep flaunting is virtually meaningless. All forms of hybrids have a very small take rate, should they be axed? Should they be “sold elsewhere” as well like you think diesels should be or is your vendetta strictly against diesel? Regardless of how you FEEL or THINK sales have INCREASED year over year. Im not sure why that has been lost on you, and at this point I could really care less. Initially I responded to you because you made your comments of “the key to selling diesels is to sell them elsewhere” and “there is no market for this.”. Your wrong, there absolutely is a market for this. Just because YOU are not in the market doesn’t mean its not there.
            And to a point, the added diesel models IS an indicator of market demand. No manufacturer is stupid enough to invest millions upon millions in R&D and implementation of a model that flat out will not sell. You must think they’re in the market to lose money rather than make it? I think not. They would simply invest in another niche market such as EV or other hybrid. Once again, if only they had your wisdom.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Look up “economies of scale” in a dictionary.

            Sweet Jesus, this shouldn’t be so tough for you to understand.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            Something tells me you have a lot of time on your hands.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Now that’s ironic.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            Always gotta have the last word, eh?

            If that’s all it takes, have at it.

      • 0 avatar
        Carrera

        Well, yes the take rate is going down or stagnating because the government is killing them slowly by mandating all kinds of crazy pollution controls on them. It is plain and simple, the government wants everyone off ICEs and into electrics, hybrids, etc. It is getting too technologically complicated to meet all the mandates. Then of course, the govt is taxing diesel more, so you have the perfect storm. In Europe, even when they made diesel fuel more money than gas ( slightly more, not like in USA) the take rate of diesel vehicles is still at least 50%. Yes, diesel fuel even in Europe is more money that gasoline…has been for the past 4-5 years or so so the argument of diesel detractors that Europeans buy diesel vehicles because the fuel is much cheaper than gas doesn’t stand anymore.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          @Carrera,
          It’s the same here in Australia. Diesel is actually more expensive that petrol, by quite a margin, 10c to 20c per litre.

          Diesel offers effortless driving. Many enthusiasts of cars don’t seem to realise that the majority of people who operate vehicles aren’t worried about 0-60 times as much as the enthusiast.

          The modern diesel offers, in my case a pickup, 4 cyl economy with V8 style driving.

          That is one thing a gas engine can’t offer.

          Not yet anyway.

  • avatar

    Diesel engines are vile, smelly, noisy things. That being said, some like them! PSA are among the best as are Fiat. having experienced mostly as rentals in Europe (in cars I mean), there is the whole calculation thing. In Europe much less, but in the US, not considering personal taste, on a financial scale, it makes less sense. Even here, you have to drive upwards of 100km per day to make sense. And that because regulations means diesels are only available in SUV/4×4/CUV like vehicles.

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