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It’s a terrible stereotype on the Internet that Toyota drivers in general, and Corolla drivers in particular, are the least demanding, least discerning, and least conscious drivers in America. Yet Toyota keeps blatantly demonstrating their corporate buy-in to that particular preconception. As seen here.
This latest Sponsored Tweet from the world’s most successful automaker gives you a pretty good idea of how Corolla buyers view the world. OMFG IT HAS NAV. JUST LIKE THE 1999 C-CLASS, AND MY TRACFONE. Whatever. Welcome to the next level. We have nav.
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The Toyota Camry, Corolla and RAV-4 are “me too cars”.
Soul-less econoboxes for people who think that buying one is “the thing to do”.
To each his own.
I actually praise Toyota for producing a vehicle people trust this much and has become so famous for them.
I just wouldn’t buy one. I’d rather take a Hyundai Sonata, Azera or Genesis if I had to choose an import. They give me all the tech I demand.
It’s as if they read my emails.
I am no Corolla fan but it’s the opposite of a “me-too” car. It’s a car that has built a reliability and low cost of ownership experience over a few decades. If anything, Hyundai is full of “me-too” cars with style over substance. I trust the Corolla to last like I trust a Hyundai to have a suspension that feels like it is made out of cheese.
Not only is Yaris a car, it’s grounded to the ground
Becomes transportation when in motion!
In the United States, Toyota has gotten to where they always wanted to be. They have their chunk of market share, they have their loyal customer base, they have the manufacturing, dealer and supplier networks, they have their name recognition and reputation right where they want them. All they have to do is not wildly screw up on quality, or fall too far behind competitors on features and capabilities. It doesn’t behoove them to mess with the formula; in fact, experimentation is actively resisted.
Look at how the FR-S was set up to fail right out of the gate. (And yes, it was actively set up to fail.) The board let Akio have the dream sports-car project he always wanted, but the rest of the company forced so many compromises on the engineering, marketing, and execution that the current sales miasma was pretty much a foregone conclusion. Why? Because now the VPs and the department heads can say, “See? There’s no money in sports cars. There’s no money in taking risks. Now, let’s get back to building the most mediocre cars we possibly can.” The FR-S was never meant to be more than a teaching moment to Akio and the rebels in engineering and lower management.
If that’s true then everyone should just let Toyota be. Now that you know don’t expect anything innovating, class leading, exciting or revolutionary. They build satisfactory cars and trucks, nothing more, nothing less, so don’t set yourself up for disappointment and you won’t be
That’s the reason I’m a Scion fan. My xB1 is every bit as good as any Toyota, but it has an interesting design. Now if Scion can just get back to that.
Huh. I’d never really thought of Scion as Toyota’s answer to Saturn before…
The FR-S was set up to fail in that there is only so large a market for a very small RWD sports coupe.
My sister leased a 2014 Corolla S and she loves it. Being a nurse and living in Canada she has to drive to and from work in all kinds of weather conditions. She just wants safe, reliable and efficient transportation. She really does care what she drives. That’s why she chose a Corolla.
Touch screens, auto park assist, talking to your car, kicking your foot to open the trunk etc… Are all gimmicks. You don’t want those features down the road. They break along with tiny turbos and 9spd transmissions and you will have a piece of junk that is worthless and expensive to maintain.
While true in a world where Toyotas made is to 200k and Chevys were lucky to hit 100k, in a world where a Corolla gets to 200k while a Chevy or Hyundia gets to 190k with more power, comfort and sophistication – that math is no longer so compelling.
Well, for those of us who have to make payments on it for 5 or 6 years, then hopefully drive it another 5 or 6 after that, I’d still go with Toyota. Can almost see your point with Hyundai, except everybody I know who has one more than 3 or 4 years seems to have problems with A/C and other stuff. GM, no way I’d take that gamble, but more power to you. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
The problem with that new math is that the 200k is just the break-in period on the Corolla. Not so much the others.
No, it’s really not. A 13 year old Corolla with 200k miles it pretty clapped out.
Especially when leasing. Even Land Rovers can be reliable for the duration of a 3 year lease.
Better than their Yaris ad campaign, “IT’S A CAR!”
So was my ’87 Corollova and I didn’t want that either!
It’s the most honest car ad campaign I’ve seen.
With the stand-alone price of $1,170 and the general lack of power or extra features of Toyota’s low-end NAV system this is scenario where you would just be better getting a nice dock for your smartphone and letting it be.
So true! Even a 3 year old phone most likely does a better job then this costly add on.
But having NAV means the car has all the gadgets and when talking to non-car people (aka Corolla buyers) having NAV makes it sound like they bought the fancy-pants version not the cheapo version. I often find most people will describe their cars not by engine size but by number of gizmos. They sound like they are reading off the same checklist the saleshole used to sell them this particular POS.
I think if they built something like a Supra again they’d get at least some car guys to visit the showroom. As it is, I have no interest. Getting into a Toyota doesn’t make me want to drive, it makes me want to take a nap.
Optional navigation doesn’t really shock me, but maybe that’s because I recently shopped the Cadillac ATS coupe and was a bit taken aback to discover that the base model does not have navigation, or a memory feature for the power seat, or seat heaters, all things that I would have thought by 2015 would be standard on a luxury make. Oh, and those chilly, non-memory seats on the base ATS are VINYL (“leatherette”, the literature says, to which I say schmeatherette, it’s vinyl). So if the newest model of Cadillac is that de-contented (why don’t they call it the Calais Edition?), I suppose we should be glad you can get nav on a Corolla at all.
I think that’s the point, you couldn’t even get it before, now it’s like this high tech wonderous thing
The Corolla is a better vehicle than an ATS. It’s more reliable, more durable, more refined, more spacious, and will retain twice its resale value as a % of purchase price as the ATS.
The ATS will be recorded in the annals of automotive history as one of GM’s deadly sins (grossly overpriced, horribly unreliable, hopelessly inefficient).
I can’t wait for the CT-Melody Lee to go on sale so I can taunt the massive failure of a corporation that is GM, with their massively inept execs such as Johan de “Come At Me, Brah!” Nysschen, even more relentlessly.
http://blog.driveaway2day.com/2014/02/cadillac-urban-luxury-concept-cars.html
Sorry, jumped the shark.
You can argue that the Corolla is more refined *compared to expectations for its class* than the ATS.
Saying that the Corolla is more refined than the ATS, period, is utter ridiculousness.
Also, if the only criteria for vehicular goodness are reliability, durability, refinement, spaciousness, and resale value, then the best vehicle on the planet is either a Toyota Avalon or a Lexus ES 350. I’ll look forward to hearing about the new grandpa car you ordered.
The ATS has rough idle, truly Pontiac G6 grade ride quality, and a lot of niggling issues like weird vibrations, start up jerkiness/noises (motor mount type issues), and a fair amount of road noise.
It’s in no way, shape or form worthy of any claim as a luxury or premium vehicle, entry or otherwise.
Also, Jack, I and many others are ALREADY VINDICATED regarding the failure that is the ATS.
Admit it:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/05/how-gm-could-save-the-cadillac-ats-from-its-otherwise-inevitable-fate-of-complete-marketplace-failure/
“truly Pontiac G6 grade ride quality”
I had one as a rental recently. You’re full of $hit.
You must’ve rented the (unicorn) air suspension ATS, then.
My experience with towARD models (2.5L & 2.0T) was very consistent with this (and I wasn’t even driving on bad roads, per se):
http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/ats/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-cadillac-ats-would-have-been-better-as-a-pontiac.html
Cadillac ATS: Would Have Been Better as a Pontiac
January 28, 2014
“I’d argue the ATS is just begging for a Pontiac badge. It’s got, by all accounts, a fantastic chassis and a very sporting disposition, especially if you opt for rear-wheel drive and the six-speed manual transmission. But the noisy engine and the, at times, much too busy ride, undermine any attempt by GM to make this a true Cadillac.”
Go forth in style, bro: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/2013-Cadillac-ATS-3.6-AWD-010.jpg
I wrote a lengthy and much more pithy post which the Rancor consumed, however I will say this in regard’s to DW’s ostensible vindication: Cadillac has become a joke on wheels for at least the last few years, I’m a GM guy from way back and come from a GM family but I won’t take what passes for a “Caddy” these days for free. JdN, CT MelodyLee, and Pen Boy I say put up or shut up. If you can’t build real *mainstream* Cadillac models shut down the marque you’re not in a position to fake it till you make it, your marketing mind tricks are as hollow and empty as the three of you are on the inside. As it stands Cadillac is the world’s standard of failure over thirty years.
The ride is harsher than a Corolla because it’s got a handling-focused suspension tune. I’ve never seen “rough idle” or “start up jerkiness/noises,” and while the road noise is probably below average for the class it’s definitely better than your typical mainstream compact.
It’s about as refined as the four-cylinder versions of the 3-series and the old C-class. The A4 does better because the EA888 is more refined than any of the other 2.0T engines.
Actually, it’s the Lexus ls. Nothing else really comes close to it when comparing across the board metrics. Tesla model x might surpass it depending on how many improvements are incorporated from the learning curve of the s model.
why oh why did you use the Deadly Sin phrase? Lost a little respect for you after that one :)
It doesn’t have seat heaters?!
My co-worker’s Jetta GLI MkIV has f*cking seat heaters!
Does this mean an old 1.8T Jetta is also better than a 2015 ATS?
No seat heaters and fold down rear seats and rear seat pass through are in up charge trim packages.
I’m surprised they don’t just come with the trunk welded shut and charge extra for an opening deck lid
The 205 doesn’t have those features standard either.
Um, if you walk into a BMW dealership and look at a 328 those are also not standard items. The 328 also comes standard with vinyl seats…
There it is. Now that cheap cars have all the gadgets, what do you do for an expensive car ? That Corolla has bluetooth, nav, sat radio and streaming…..
BMW calls it enhanced and charges four figures for it….
Meanwhile, time marches on, and you have a $90 Wal mart satnav, or you can just use the smartphone you most likely already have.
The most oblivious drivers are Prius folks. I’ve never seen one actually “driven”. Nissan Rogue is also a reliable lane blocker.
The options list for BMW is there to raise the price. The stripper is so they can advertise the lowball, but once you realize that you need heated seats (mama), or that a fold down rear seat is nice, you pay for it…
Caddy didn’t get this part. Acura does. This is why the price of the loaded Acura, Lexus, Infiniti is the same as the stripped German car. Caddy should have priced “loaded” the stripper German price and they’d be right in there. Taking the “they will pay” idea from the Germans requires that your product have that aspirational stardust, and while worthy, that part is still missing.
Meanwhile, you can hack your new BMW to activate the Ad2P function in the bluetooth chip…it is there in many cars, just not activated. Sheesh. My 2003, with a Kinivio 450 ($45 at Amazon) hooked into the aux in does all that….
Oh, and lastly, am I the only one creeped out by “Toyota Jan” ?
We are at a weird place in time regarding all things automotive.
You’re right about even entry level models now offering many of the features that the higher end vehicles have. It’s becoming a question of what size package you want them to be wrapped in.
re: “… am I the only one creeped out by “Toyota Jan” ?”
Nope.
She’s not as bad as Progressive Flo, who I always picture as the concierge’ at a Texas maximum security state prison
They’re both creepy, which is the point. Makes them non-threatening to frumpy housewives and mild-mannered guys who think having a tattler in their car to save a few bucks is a great idea (my insurance premiums would triple).
I can only think of Flo from when she was on the first season of Mad Men. So I consider her a Mad Men character.
re: ‘The most oblivious drivers are Prius folks.’
They’re making a statement.
Oh, you can bet some of them are. Like the fool deliberately creeping along a *downhill* onramp, on target to merge into 70 mph traffic at 45 mph. He wasn’t oblivious, he was hypermiling and gave me one hell of a stink-eye for going around him over the double whites.
Its a Pontiac that was rebadged as a cadillac and priced to match. In other words, its the caddy for suckers…current chryslers, hyundais and kias are more compelling and cost much less than lesser equipped Cadillac ats and xts models.
Correct, which is incredibly dangerous for the “[fake] luxury brand that happens to sell cars” because this is the “Cadillac” many of its potential customers will get young in their careers. By screwing this up they sour the next generation, which is just brilliant.
“current chryslers, hyundais and kias”
Which may or may not be better, but all suffer from trepidatious resale and do not make sense to buy “brand new” same as ATS. I suppose you could argue at least those aren’t “luxury” brands and offer better product for the money vs luxury, but you’d be assuming Cadillac is a “luxury” brand. Unfortunately the US domestic brands no longer offer a true luxury option, its near luxury only.
The Chrysler 300, even in base trim (30somethingk MSRP and about 26k actual purchase price plus TTL) is more quiet, better finished, has a much more refined ride quality, has a better automatic transmission by far, and has a more solid chassis than any current Cadillac being produced, whether a compact 45k ATS, compact 55k CTS or Impala-Twin 70k XTS.
I’d argue that the 300 approaches refinement levels (road, wind noise, ride quality) of some big Lexi.
Cadillac is a really, truly bad joke.
28, we have similar backgrounds, I believe, in terms of growing up in GM white collar exec areas, and are close in age.
We both literally watched in real time, over a period of some 30 years (since I was 9 or so), as GM descended into a joke of a company.
I grew up with the next door neighbor of a son of a GM designer taking offense when I purchased a Japanese car at the age of 18, to get me through college, telling me I should have stuck with the absolute POS Chevy Cavalier (that literally was in for repairs once a month) I was previously tortured by, because “it was American.”
GM’s decline began in the 70s, was accelerated rapidly by Roger Smith, Farago nailed the death watch, jack Baruth nailed the market failure that is now the ATS (in 2012, no less), and I’m amazed that there are still GM apologists left.
GM apologists remind me of 70 year old Japanese soldiers found in the 90s in the South Pacific Islands, living in caves, unaware that WWII had been declared over.
DW you are 39, I thought 28 was 29!
@ madhungarian – Even my wife’s fairly loaded Premium Plus 2014 Audi A4, which isn’t the bottom trim level, doesn’t have real leather seats. I think sticker on that was around 45K. So don’t be too hard on Cadillac. Our 7 year old Chevy Tahoe has nicer seats than the Audi….LOL. And don’t even get me going on the crappy steering wheel in that A4.
I logged in just to say that’s the best headline I’ve read in months. Keep up the good work, Jack.
Toyota/Lexus used to underpromise & overdeliver, but no more.
Now, they at least deliver what they promise, be it good (Lexus GS350), so-so (Camry, Corolla) or awful (Yaris).
Toyota still makes a fine appliance, but they once made refined, reliable vehicles (the Camry & even Corolla once felt like Lexus’ in terms of refinement & build quality, but both are a shadow of their former selves) that no other company could match $ for $, but much of the rest of the industry moved so much further so much more quickly, Toyota/Lexus is just meh now (and in many cases blah).
So which is it? The Corolla is refined, or it’s unrefined?
I think he’s at least tres mojitos in at this point, signals are getting fuzzy out of the Deadweight compound.
Jack, this is all you have for us? You’re writing an article about a tweet? Your stuff is about all I usually bother to read here, but at least now I know you can get nav on a Corolla, thanks!
It’s a 3WTP, brother! That’s all you get!
Toyota – for when the Honda is too interesting.
“… the least demanding, least discerning, and least conscious drivers in America.” I don’t know about the first two groups, but membership in the third often seems to coincide with Camry ownership. There is nothing wrong with Camry engineering per se, and they are hardly the least capable vehicles on the road, but somehow most of them are driven at the slowest pace. Maybe the aggressive front end on the new one will finally change that?
I’ve found the least conscientious mdge often goes to Mercedes and BMW drivers.
Yeah, you occasionally see a stressed cubicle slave in a Toyota, but no more sozthan in the general population. But theGerman luxury car drivers don’t give a $#!t, and they want you to know they’re rich enough to get away with it.
But, then again, I learned about these brands while learning to drive on DC’s capital beltway as a teenager, and I haven’t found any reason to revise my opinion of BMW and Mercedes as having a flamboyant disregard for safety and common sense yet… I’ll put my lot in with the bland Toyota people as far as reliability, TCO, ergonomics, and image go.
A certain dignity should accompany attaining middle-age that’s not evident in this gratuitous insulting of the less sophisticated.
How could we insult them? They’re not here.
Besides, car savvy has nothing to do with sophistication. I know ‘sophisticated’ people who don’t know jack about cars, ICE, etc. They buy BMWs and Mercedes because that’s what they’re supposed to drive. Ask them to explain understeer and you’ll get a blank stare.
If you drive, anywhere or anything, there’s no excuse for not having basic knowledge of the physics, mechanics, etc.–your life and the lives of other drivers depend on it; ignorance is no excuse.
How could we insult them, they’re not here?
The ‘less sophisticated’ buy these cars and drive like maniacs here in the SF Bay Area. They have no understanding of the basic mechanics and laws of physics that apply to automobiles; that’s insulting to me.
Huh. Strange spam filter; wrote first reply, filter rejects it, I hit ‘cancel,’ then comment gets delayed posting.
So why is it a problem that navigation is not standard but rather an option? It ought to be an option, so those of us who like to keep cars several years, and who know how to read a map, don’t have to have this unnecessary electronic doohickey that will quit working a few years out and cost more to fix than the value of the car.
In Canada, Toyota runs a TV ad, over, and over, again. It features, a pretty hot soccer mom, dressed for evening wear. She takes over the Drum kit, from the kid next doors garage band. So we all know how you have to position your legs, to play the drums ? Right so she rocks. Mean while husband, who, somehow or other has misplaced his testicles, leans against a perfectly detailed Camry. {a detailed Camry, now theres a rare sight} She steps away from the drum set. The kids are in awe. At her drum skill? Or maybe her legs ? So she slides behind the wheel {I guess nut less hubby, can’t drive}
I guess Toyota, is trying to get away from the “geek mobile” image. They must of ran the ad 6 times during the Ravens-Bengals game. So I thought I would keep count, during the Cowboys-Lions game. 7 times in 3 hours.
Okay Toyota…I got the point, please produce another ad.
“must of”
GAAAAH!
“must’ve” is a contraction for “must have”
There is no “must of”, “could of”, “should of”. Ever. Does not exist.
Sorry, pet peeve!
@ opus…Okay..I understand your point. My Dad was a stickler for the proper “Queens English”..I always wondered, that with millions of us speaking English, in different ways, how does one define proper?
A guy from Texas speaks English one way,and a guy from South Carolina sounds, and speaks completely different. A working class Brit, sure doesn’t sound like Prince Charles..
I never really thought, or knew that, “must of”, “could of” etc, did not exist. That’s would be the way I would speak it, and the way that I would write it. So I guess. that in my world such words very much exist.
However, if somebody is uncomfortable with it, and its a “pet peeve!…I’m good with that to, but I’m way too old to change.
Sorry
I’ve seen this annoying commercial many times. Maybe it’s a Sharon Stone/Basic Instinct moment?
“Yaris: It’s a car!” is brilliant.
Being in charge of marketing for the Mitsubishi Mirage would be like my dream job. I would be the next Joe Isuzu. “Whaddda ya ganna buyyyy? A Corolla?”
Well I am about to buy my first Toyota and my first car equipped with Nav (4Runner Limited), so maybe they have a point? My current two cars are a 2007 BMW 328 and a 07 Lexus RX350, both without Nav. Getting iDrive in 2007 was like poking yourself in the eye repeatedly with a stick and paying for the privilege.
I drive for a living and never used nor had the need for no NAV system, I was issued an Ipad which I may use if I get lost and have yet to use it either, not interested, I like to know exactly where I’m going b4 heading out, even when I go away on a trip, rely on googlemap online to get to where I am not familiar.
I’m not sure I understand the fuss about a tweet highlighting a level of luxury (see what I did there) that most compact buyers don’t consider. Click-bait? (Yep, I said it!) Slow news day? Desperate need for snark?
Toyota is advertising a feature. Stop the presses.
Between this and Derek’s “BAD” list of 4Runner, FR-S, and tC, I get it. You don’t like Toyota. Can we move back to Cadillac bashing now?
And they don’t seem to like Subaru either from the last article today, perhaps I’ve decided I don’t like TTAC any longer, either
I don’t think they actually like cars outside of the cars they “like”. It’s harder and harder to find an auto review that doesn’t have some kind of bias or snarky history thrown in.
I also don’t think many of them are realistic or have the technical background to write a lot of what they write.
The days of D.E. Davis and that group are pretty much gone for now.
All is right again in TTAC-land, as we have resumed sniping on Cadillac with 2 articles this afternoon. The Subies and Toys can rest easy for awhile.
I’m not sure why Jack is creating a fuss about a tweet advertising a level of luxury (see what I did there) on a compact. Click bait? (Yes, I said it!) Slow news day? Desperate need for more snark?
It’s advertising. Move along, nothing to see here.
Between this and yesterday’s list of Derek’s “bad” 4Runner, FR-S and tC, we get it. You don’t like Toyota. Can we move back to Cadillac bashing now?
The issue is that Toyota’s low end cars have had this level of luxury for a LONG time.
I don’t know amout the Corolla specificalry, but my wife’s 11 year old Prius has a pretty good navigation system. It’s almost certainly the same syshem used in the mid 2000s Camry, and presumably the Corolla too.
The offense that I read in the article was that Jack was offended that Toyota thinks so littre of Toyota shoppers that they’re touting the navigation system in tho Corolla as “new”, even though it’s been presumably been available for at least a decade.
It’s a 3WTP, dude. Stuff like this has been on TTAC forever.
I am pretty sure that people buy Corolla/Camry because it is by far the cheapest socially acceptable car you can buy. Whether leasing ($130/month Corolla or $180/month Camry) or buying (highest resale value) these cars are lowest cost of ownership cars in this market. They are cheap to buy and cheap to own. And they are perfectly competent cars.
I know several people who are not wealthy but make a very comfortable living and could easily afford a 100k+ car (like a drop in the bucket for them) — who have been driving Camry after Camry for decades.
That 1999 C-Class navigation system, though. Six CDs that cost hundreds to replace every time they went out of date. Yeeeugh.
Or the BMW system in my 2003. I think it was the first, and uses a DVD drive in the trunk. It was very high zoot when I got it in 03…today my $90 MallWart Garmin stomps it. The $1500 option price made sense back then…it was really leading edge. That price for the nav system now, makes no sense whatsoever.
More amazingly, the exact same system was in a late model X3 loaner I got during the takata airbag replacement. I know trucks traditionally get the car hand me downs, but to put this in any vehicle now and charge for it….wow.
Better still, Waze and Garmin allow you to load camera enforcement waypoints…it is a subscription for Garmin and part of Waze.
Hmm my 01 GS had a DVD based system in the trunk.
A college buddy of mine recently had a new Corolla as a rental while he was in town for some training. What a hot mess that instrument panel and interior was…a haphazard mélange of shapes, textures and colors that simply didn’t mesh with one another. The interior of my old 1988 Merkur Scorpio is light years ahead of this in style and cohesiveness. I will say that I was shocked that his rental grade car had a backup camera though, so I guess that’s one thing it has going for it.