New or Used: Out-Backing the Outback?

by Sajeev Mehta

Published: October 26th, 2011

Peter writes:

When my wife and I drove across the country, we found that our cars really weren’t right for Orange County. My Rav4’s payment spiked considerably due to a ridiculous monthly car tax out here on leases. I forbid my wife to drive the 2004 Corolla 40 miles a day in traffic on the 5. We had some cash left over from the move and decided to exchange our cars. We did very well in negotiating with the dealer. My wife got a brand new Legacy 2011 Limited with all the bells and whistles. I decided on using the 500 rebate towards a new Outback. The trade in deals we got were superb. We just got very lucky I guess. Well..

Her Legacy turned out to be a great car. She gets great gas mileage and we’re both happy with the car. It has fantastic soft leather seats. Fantastic piece of engineering. Love it.

Then there’s my Outback. I am in such pain from this car. It’s been dead reliable, great in terms of the way it drives and handles, zippy, and fits my lifestyle. Unfortunately the car’s seats are the absolute worst ever put into a car. I’ve tried two trips to an upholstery shop to get the seats altered. The dealer has performed numerous “fixes” to the seat. The problem only has gotten worse. I can barely sit in the car for 10 minutes without getting a headache and back pain. I finally sat down with my wife and told her the car must go. We’ve spent too much money on the problem and it’s not worth it.

My car is supposed to be a trip car : A car that can hold our dog, future child, and perhaps future second dog on trips to the Grand Canyon and Yosemite. It’s also supposed to be good for pulling up to a beach and providing a nice hatch for me to sit down and put on my wetsuit. It’s supposed to be the “Dog” car. I cannot buy a car without a Hatch after finding how essential they are!

Here’s our situation: We’re paying off debt, and getting ready to buy a house. My wife and I have high incomes. The payoff on the Subaru Outback is $28K. It has 6000 miles on it. I’m guessing I can get about 24 for it. Our lease payment is around 420. The cars we’re entertaining are the Hyundai Tuscon GLS, Elantra Touring SE, Mazda CX7 “i model” and perhaps the Mazda5. I can put 2K-4K down and would not want a higher payment than 420. I need a comfortable car. It also must be safe. Gas mileage is essential. I don’t care if it’s a base model, but it seems the next level up from base is quite economical on these two cars.

I really have been starting to see that almost every car out there is superior to what I have for the simple reason that I can’t really sit in my car. This is the one vehicle that has made me miss every single previous car I’ve ever owned, except the Rav4.

BTW: I refuse at this point to purchase a GM vehicle, or a Chrysler for my own personal reasons that I will never get over. I have not taken Lincoln off the table, or any Ford. However their prices seem to be in another galaxy for what the cars offer.

I need to do this very soon, as my work is suffering due to the condition I’m in when I arrive. I am open to other options entirely. My wife and I discussed the possibility of an older car for a few years and then something else. That adds some risk, though. We’ve already spent too much on a car that was supposed to be under warranty.

Steve answers:

Am I missing something here?

If you are comfortable with one vehicle but not the other… then just drive the one that works for you.

You don’t need to blow a financial hole out of your posterior. Switch cars. Save your money (for once), and try to free yourself of this affluenza addiction.

You can also go visit a Subaru dealership if the mood strikes you. Sit on a bunch of other vehicles and test drive them. Once you find a seat that works, see if you can get the it installed on your vehicle by an independent shop. Just go to car-part.com or Ebay and get yourself a nice comfortable throne for a few hundred.

That should beat becoming yet another one of the Joneses in California. Good luck!

Sajeev answers:

Honestly, given your housing plans and the debt-income ratio that always comes with getting a home loan, you need to get a car that will support your back without making you “bend over” when the home mortgage people come a-ringing. My advice is to look at new sedans around 20k, the Hyundai Elantra and Ford Focus are high on my list there. There are even some hatchbacks at that price. Or…

Wood bead seat covers. I know they look awful, but they work for a lot of people. You owe it to yourself (and your wife, future mortgage note, etc) to give your Outback a chance via massaging seat covers. And while there are plenty of them on the market, the old school wood beads are honestly the best shot you have at seat comfort and a less painful route to home ownership.

Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.

Sajeev Mehta

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7 of 121 comments

Ciddyguy on Oct 26, 2011

OK, having read some of the OP's responses here, one thing came clear here. A lot of information now has come to light that was NOT apart of the Original post, like he bought the 04 Corolla second hand and discovered, probably after the fact that it had its safety ratings compromised by the original owner. That tells me he didn't properly check the car out before buying it. Also, relying of Forbes for safety ratings. Now I know Consumer Reports isn't the final say all be all here but just quick glance tells me that an '03 Toyota did very well in the safety ratings in both the frontal crash tests. The side impact tests came back as either 5 star for frontal crash tests or 4 star for the side impact and 2003 was the first year for the redesign that would involve the 2004 Corolla so that's incorrect as far as his assertions are concerned on the Toyota's crash ratings. This is from both Consumer Reports (I know it's not the end all, be all but they DO report the findings from IIHS), also, Cars.com gave the car good marks for crash safety, including rollovers and I bet those results were from IIHS as well. So with the suspected issues with the Corolla, I don't blame him for not letting his wife drive the car to and from work on those issues alone, but again, a careful inspection by an independent mechanic would have most likely uncovered this and he'd have rejected the car in the first place. Bad move on his or his wife's part. Secondly, not having properly checked out the seats of the Outback and how they might be on longer drives is also suspect as if he'd had, he'd have known there might be a problem here and have rejected the Outback before buying it. So to that, it is easy to judge him like we did simply by how the letter was presented to Steve and Sajeeve so in this regard, I don't blame the B&B for their comments though some of them could've been worded better but in the end, we were left with what we had to go on and as a result, the comments left are what they are. Ultimately, either sell the car and take the loss and hopefully learn to really check out your next expensive purchase to be sure you have what you need in a car and secondly, as I said in a reply to another B&B commenter, try angling the seat backs and it might help with the headrests or whatever is causing your headaches. And if you actually have back issues, time to have it checked out by your primary physician so he can recommend a chiropractor if necessary to help you with your back pain. I was going to a chiropractor for a while but temping and no insurance nixed that but I still have the exercise ball I got as a result of his recommendations to help straighten my spine. I just need to use it more though. In the end, I think it has less to do with jealousy rather than poor decision making on the OP's part in some areas and appearing to wanting to "keep up with the Joneses".

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- Misterpeter on Oct 27, 2011
  
  I appreciate your attempt to moderate, but I still fail to see where all this judgmental crap is coming from. 1. You judged my wife on her choice of car. Sorry she's not an expert. She had no idea at the time. It wasn't until I had to get inside her car to fix it that I found there were more than a few issues. 2. You are also judging me on my motivations for buying a car. No sir, I am not trying to keep up with the Joneses. If I wanted to do that, I wouldn't be driving a base model CX-7. I actually don't tend to judge people on if they are "joneses-keeper-uppers" or not. If someone wants a nice car, or nice stuff, go for it! Why is that so bad? I don't personally want to show off, but if I did- why would that be so bad? People love cars for different reasons. A friend has a nice S class, which he certainly uses to show off that he "keeps up with the Joneses". He needs to for his job. He went into lots of debt for it. Was it worth it? Certainly! What a car! People he works with judge him (like you are judging me- based on very little info) much better thanks to his ride and he needs to maintain that sort of appearance. I say all the best to him! You are also considering that I am somehow relying only on Forbes for ratings. Sorry, but they had cited sources, and I looked into multiple other ratings. I judged that car as way too unsafe for her commute. That's my call, not yours. It's not the subject of the OP. I've learned some valuable lessons from this predicament: 1. Yes, I agree. An extended test drive is the ONLY way to go. I did that, and I benefited from it. I drove lots of cars and took a 2 day drive of the CX-7. 2. Attempting to go to an upholstery shop to re-do a modern seat is a bad idea. It's too difficult to get it right. 3. Find a good dealership. The Mazda dealer that helped me really really tried to help me. The salesman had a similar situation before and went to bat for me, big time. Sometimes people really are nice. I have ended up way on top. 4. If you are going to ask a question of Sajeev and Steve, make sure you sound like a broke, humble, panther-driving hobo. Try not to use words greater than 5 letters long. Make yourself out to be a despot at every opportunity.
  
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- SuperACG on Oct 27, 2011
  
  @misterpeter No sir, we DID NOT judge your wife on her choice of car; that was not mentioned in your original post. We all judged you on your choice of WHAT YOU WOULD NOT CONSIDER. We all picked up on your anti-bailout supremacy, in addition to buying, no wait, LEASING, two new cars, how they fit "your (new California) lifestyle," and now looking into getting a house. The whole tone of that letter, just screamed "GIMMIE-GIMMIE-GIMMIE, I WANT-I WANT IT-I WANT IT NOW! I'VE 'MADE IT' AND NOW AM *ENTITLED* TO IT." That did not bode well with the most of us who are all, seemingly, in the same boat of trying to reduce debt, MAINTAIN income, all while trying to increase savings. Your original post had no mention of safety. If that was such a priority in your purchase decision, it would have been mentioned in your letter. Since you mentioned your lifestyle, that seemed like the reason you purchased the car, and if you know the B&B, A LIFESTYLE CAR DOES NOT GET DRIVEN EVERY DAY. The B&B who drives a "$2000 S-Box" likely has a "lifestyle car" in the garage that gets driven only on weekends. The fact that you "forbade your wife" of driving a certain car just screams "control freak." Anyone who forbids their spouse of anything, no matter how well-meaning, has issues. You should have chosen a different way to express it like "the previous modifications of said Toyota made it an unwise long-term commuter." So you have a wetsuit and "workout?" If this is the case, then why do you have back problems in the first place? See? I (we) could go on-and-on ad nauseum. About me? I've lived in San Diego, CA my whole life. I worked as a Finance Director in the car business. I've seen plenty of big spenders when the economy was good, and the ones who were crying after the big bust. I'll be the first to tell you how stupid a lease is (unless I'm writing your lease, in which case, I would be making quite a bit of money). I am no longer in the business. I'll admit to racking up huge debts trying to start a business which hasn't come to fruition and now have to drive a humbling Ford Focus Wagon as well as take a lowly sales job which amounts to slightly above minimum wage, all while trying to pay down the debt and keep from losing the assets I currently still own. Why did I divulge my info? Because most of the B&B have already made stupid decisions, and don't want you to do the same!!!
  
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- PJ McCombs on Oct 27, 2011
  
  @misterpeter I wouldn't be too hasty to judge the B&B--I think it's just that the voicing of a 'need' to replace cars that many people would be happy to own, especially when the term 'lifestyle' is thrown in (which many read as 'image'), strikes an especially sensitive nerve in today's economic malaise. Folks probably read more into the OP than they should have. That said, a dog is happy in any car that moves and has roll-down windows. Kids too, as long as you know they're safe. Regardless of safety ratings, it sounds like your wife is happy with a more substantial looking- and feeling-car than the Corolla (which is her call anyway), and that you'd like something that's a similar step up, but comfortable and not too bad on gas. Like many others here, I'd be inclined to recommend a used 9-5 (how used is almost immaterial, as the car hasn't changed much since the late '90s but has awesome seats and a frugal I4). Or just find yourself a used Outback with leather seats! The previous generation was a better car than the new one anyway, and the image it projects is the same.
  
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- Slance66 on Oct 27, 2011
  
  @misterpeter For what it's worth, I asked one of these questions once, and like you, received some fairly "class warfare" laden responses. Not all, but enough. Ended up with a CPO 328xi most people told me to avoid and I couldn't be happier. I sold a 2007 Tribeca because it just wasn't comfortable for the driver or passenger and caused my wife back and neck pain. Got a 2007 RX350 at a good price. Took a bath on the Subaru trade but my only regret was not doing the longer term test before buying it. Selling it was the right move. Can everyone afford to do that? Obviously not. I'm with you on the bailout by the way, don't want to buy a car from any company where the U.S. government is a major stockholder. I don't believe in government ownership of the means of production, it's called communism. Sell the stake and then I'd be willing to give them a look.
  
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- Bryanska on Oct 28, 2011
  
  @misterpeter Right, dude, the original letter was rife with unexplained things. The numbers, as written in the post, just didn't add up. It sounded like you were sabotaging yourself. So yes, we judged, as you de facto asked us to. It's the Internet. We tried to give you advice based on that content.
  
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Dastanley on Oct 27, 2011

C'mon B&B. I think we're being a little hard on misterpeter. He came to TTAC with an honest dilemma based on a medical issue - back problems. I myself wrote into Piston Slap about seat issues on my Corolla a couple of years ago and know first hand about back pain. It can be debilitating. So cut the guy some slack. If he feels the need to buy a new car for his back pain, so what? Let him get his new car. Why begrudge him? I thought we at TTAC would welcome growth and reader participation. Do we want to run misterpeter off and scare others into not writing in?

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