By on April 12, 2022

Automotive manufacturers are currently on a quest to secure supply chains to avoid any future embarrassments relating to absent materials or missing components. If the last few years have taught the industry anything, it’s that it is always better not to get caught with your pants down. So we’re now seeing most of the major players trying to lock down raw materials necessary for battery production as they pitch upward in value in anticipation of numerous firms transitioning to all-electric vehicles.

Cobalt has been of particular interest to automakers and General Motors recently entered into a formal agreement to purchase the chemical element from the Anglo-Swiss commodities trader Glencore Plc. 

On Tuesday, GM confirmed a multiyear contract to receive materials from Glencore’s Murrin Murrin mine in Australia and the cobalt will ultimately find its way inside the automaker’s Ultium batteries. This will help the company secure the necessary raw materials for EVs while also giving investors something to gnaw on.

In a bid to sweeten the pot, GM made sure to mention that both companies were part of the Responsible Minerals Initiative (RMI) that exists to make huge industrial projects appear environmentally friendly and compliant with government regulations, including when the materials are sourced from controversial regions where human rights are an issue. This process includes assessments of sustainable regulations that are in place for processing materials and RMI’s promise that it will be a net-zero total emissions organization by 2050.

It’s also one of the largest global diversified natural resource companies on the planet, which is probably more relevant to General Motors’ needs.

“GM and our suppliers are building an EV ecosystem that is focused on sourcing critical raw materials in a secure sustainable manner,” stated Jeff Morrison, General Motors vice president, Global Purchasing and Supply Chain. “Importantly, given the critical role of EVs in reducing the carbon footprint of the transportation sector, this agreement is aligned with our approach to responsible sourcing and supply chain management.”

The company’s Ultium platform currently underpins the Cadillac Lyriq and Hummer EV and will be used for a whole host of electrified vehicles GM intends to launch next year. It also wants to have the capacity to build 1 million EVs for North America by the end of 2025, which will require reliable access to cobalt and other elements relevant to battery production.

That’s going to require a new factory, which the automaker said it would build in Bécancour, Quebec, in conjunction with South Korea’s POSCO Chemical. GM announced the planned facility earlier in the month, saying it would be essential for getting cathode active materials down to Michigan where it’s been setting up battery plants. However, none of that will be possible if it doesn’t have reliable access to raw materials.

“We are delighted to announce this collaboration and support General Motors in delivering its electric vehicle strategy,” said Ash Lazenby, Glencore U.S. Cobalt marketer and trader. “Future facing commodities like cobalt play a pivotal role in decarbonizing energy consumption and the electric vehicle revolution. Glencore is already a leading producer, recycler and supplier of these commodities, which underpin our own ambition of achieving net zero total emissions by 2050.”

[Image: General Motors]

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103 Comments on “GM Secures Itself Some Cobalt...”


  • avatar
    4onthefloor

    Cobalt, and it’s partner lithium are some of the worst heave metal pollutants in existence, and make pollutants from ICE look like a 5 star meal in comparison. Electric cars are, at this point in time, a fools game. What people are saving now on upfront costs will be paid for by their children, grandchildren, and future generations to come. Hard pass.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      This message brought to you by Exxon, which reminds you: we really don’t want to sell less gasoline, so EVs are bad, bad, bad.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      “What people are saving now on upfront costs”

      That’s the first time I’ve heard that said about EVs.

      • 0 avatar
        4onthefloor

        This was in reference to fuel savings, not purchase price. Some like to be beta testers, and in order to reach maturation they are a necessary evil. I choose not to be without a chair at the present time when the music stops.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Electric cars are not new. Why do they need to be beta-tested?

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            Are you saying technology does not currently advance at a rapid pace, and that these technology’s should not be tested before being dumped on a mostly unsuspecting populace? That’s reckless behavior.

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            Are you saying technology does not currently advance at a rapid pace, and that these technology’s should not be tested before being dumped on a mostly unsuspecting populace? That’s reckless behavior.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            If battery-powered vehicles posed some kind of demonstrable safety hazard that made them more dangerous than conventionally powered vehicles, then your “reckless” argument would hold water.

            If battery-powered vehicles posed some kind of environmental hazard that made them more dangerous than conventionally powered vehicles, then your “reckless” argument would hold water.

            But you and I know that’s not the case.

            Are these vehicles right for everyone as this is written? No. Do advances need to be made to make them right for everyone? Yes. Should everyone be forced to drive them? No. Are there issues concerning things like battery recycling? Yes.

            Are they unsafe? No.

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            Mike, I suggest you look up electric vehicles fires, because you have demonstrated convincingly and effectively that you don’t know what you don’t know, and I’m growing tired of doing your homework for you.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            And conventionally powered vehicles never catch on fire…

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “Mike, I suggest you look up electric vehicles fires, because you have demonstrated convincingly and effectively that you don’t know what you don’t know, and I’m growing tired of doing your homework for you.”

            It’s all he has. Hes one of those that cannot think for themselves and just parrots the party narrative.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “And conventionally powered vehicles never catch on fire…”

            The straw man cometh.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Looks like EB found a new troll buddy.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            Every car, including ICE, is beta tested. It’s called the first year or two of production.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “Cobalt, and it’s partner lithium are some of the worst heave metal pollutants in existence, and make pollutants from ICE look like a 5 star meal in comparison. Electric cars are, at this point in time, a fools game. What people are saving now on upfront costs will be paid for by their children, grandchildren, and future generations to come. Hard pass.”

      But since when have the libs been for anyone but themselves? They don’t care about the future, all they care about is their pet projects that amount to no more than get rich quick schemes (like EVs). This from the same party that has been telling us for 50+ years we only have 10 years left and that using electricity is bad (incandescent light bulbs).

      Despite your post dripping in truth and common sense, you will be attacked.

      However, there is no savings with EVs, even in fuel costs. That is a fallacy that is pushed to get uninformed sheep who are easily manipulated to buy the things. Anyone that actually researches EVs will quickly realize that they are incredibly damaging to the planet (which, we are told, is the reason we all have to buy EVs….to save the planet) and are vastly inferior to ICE vehicles. They just are not a viable alternative to ICE vehicles…yet.

      The problem is these out-of-touch, installed libs that are running this country (into the ground) are manipulating the market through legislation and forcing the hand of automakers to make these undesirable appliances.

      • 0 avatar
        4onthefloor

        No worries. I have been attacked by some very worthy adversaries, and I’m still here, while they have fallen on hard times. Some have even come to me seeking a job for which they were unqualified. Being successful in business requires a very thick skin, the key is to be able to shut is off to have a harmonious home life. I have just learned to not be offended by the uninformed. I just wish I had more time to educate some of them. I know what I know, but the most important part is I also know what I don’t know.

      • 0 avatar
        Jeff S

        Kind of twisted logic that EVs would cause future generations harm. So should we all go back to driving big V8 gas guzzlers from the past that get 8 mpgs. I don’t drive an EV but it is a stretch to say that EVs will cause irreparable harm to future generations. Maybe you could adopt the saying from the 73 Arab Oil Embargo of those who were against any energy savings “Drive 90 and freeze a Yankee.”

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          “Kind of twisted logic that EVs would cause future generations harm. So should we all go back to driving big V8 gas guzzlers from the past that get 8 mpgs.”

          Nice strawman.

          Please show me anyone that is advocating for that.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            Well you seem to like extremes. If you really cared about future generations you would want to see technology that would be developed that could make batteries that did not use cobalt, lithium, or other harmful materials like Toyota has been developing a solid state battery. Your position has been technology is bad and there should be no further advancements. You might be happier to go back over hundred years ago when there were just horse and buggies and people read by kerosene lamps and cooked on wood stoves. You could also go to Pennsylvania and seek a simpler life among the Amish.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “Well you seem to like extremes.”

            Again…show me anyone advocating for “go(ing) back to driving big V8 gas guzzlers from the past that get 8 mpgs.”

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            You seem to like extremes. Not all EVs are bad and they are not for everyone. I am not against technology but you seem to embrace anti technology. There is a happy medium but then again you are the straw man looking for attention.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @Jeff:

            He just likes to troll.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “You seem to like extremes. Not all EVs are bad and they are not for everyone. I am not against technology but you seem to embrace anti technology. There is a happy medium but then again you are the straw man looking for attention.”

            So you can’t answer my question. Got it.

      • 0 avatar
        RHD

        How can you tell if a car is an EV when it goes by?
        Easy – by the noxious clouds of toxic cobalt and lithium that it emits.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          Those are problems for kids in third world countries tasked with the recycling…not something the enlightened are concerned with

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “Those are problems for kids in third world countries tasked with the recycling…”

            Redwood Materials does their recycling in Nevada. Didn’t know they were hiring kids from third-world countries. Hopefully they are getting good pay and education benefits.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Ah yes. Only one place that does it. STFU

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        “there is no savings with EVs, even in fuel costs”

        HAHAHAHA!

        My fuel costs for 70k miles of EV driving have been $2100 if I round up. Even a hybrid would be triple that.

        The more you talk about EVs, the more vapid your arguments become.

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          “The more you talk about EVs, the more vapid your arguments become.”

          Ah yes. Continue to quote me out of context. It shows the strength of your argument.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            You just don’t like the fact that the guy’s not saying something that doesn’t line up with whatever your preconceived notions are.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Some companies are removing cobalt from their batteries, as with Tesla’s LFP cells.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      4680s eliminate cobalt. LFP eliminated cobalt and nickel.

    • 0 avatar
      4onthefloor

      True that manufacturers are looking at alternative materials, but most are of unknown thermal,stability. Time will tell if this pans out. I ride an expensive electric bike so I completely understand the benefits, for for people to say that they are viable right now is a cruel fallacy.

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        @4onthefloor,

        “for people to say that they are viable right now”
        • They are viable for some use cases right now

        A goofy analogy if I may: We recently purchased an air fryer. We kept the oven and the microwave. (Similarly, our microwave didn’t straight-up replace the range.) The air fryer excels at some things [like, dramatically better].

        Hopefully the batteries and powertrains will continue to improve. Hopefully the long-term environmental issues will be addressed. Hopefully simpleton legislators won’t try to achieve one-for-one replacement for all internal combustion vehicles overnight. [In the meantime, my driveway might be as crowded as my kitchen countertop.]

        • 0 avatar
          4onthefloor

          Not a goofy analogy at all. We love our Breville air fryer, and hey, who doesn’t like a proper home cooked meal? I don’t object to electrified transportation at all once the technology is perfected, and the kinks are worked out. I liken todays electric vehicles to an old iPad or Phablet, it still works, but not very well. I fear that instead of replacing an engine or transmission, and slapping new seat covers, and a new coat of paint on, they will instead be discarded, just like some ice cars are now, due to outdated infotainment. That’s why I keep some old cars in my stable, because when EMP is perfected, and one of the weapons of choice, I want to be able to at least try and make a run for it. Doubt I’ll be successful, but I think having some chance is better than no chance. At all.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “That’s why I keep some old cars in my stable, because when EMP is perfected, and one of the weapons of choice, I want to be able to at least try and make a run for it. ”

            So EVs aren’t gonna be a hit with folks with prepper tendencies. Okey dokey.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            If you want to be prepared as a total survivalist you would get a pre 1974 vehicle with points and condenser and a carburetor with little if any electronics since a nuclear blast or flares from the Sun could interfere (electro- magnetic interference). Also don’t forget to build an underground facility and supply it with lots of canned food. Also start hoarding gold and silver.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        “True that manufacturers are looking at alternative materials, but most are of unknown thermal,stability.”

        No, they are putting the alternatives into production. LFP batteries are available today. The 4680 cobalt free batteries are in production now. Sodium-ion is going into production. They aren’t just looking at the other materials, they’ve solved the issues and have them to the point they are either already in mass production or about too.

  • avatar
    mcs

    Meanwhile, GMs largest EV competitor has eliminated cobalt:

    https://eepower.com/new-industry-products/teslas-4680-a-cobalt-free-silicon-battery-solution/#

    And for some batteries, nickel and cobalt:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batteries-in-all-standard-range-cars.html

    And CATL, a Tesla partner, has even eliminated lithium:
    https://autonews.gasgoo.com/70018761.html
    https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/07/20210730-catl.html

    good ole GM, keeping right up with the competition.

  • avatar
    4onthefloor

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. While mass amounts of batteries from hybrids sit in warehouses around the country waiting for recycling technology to catch up. It’s just another case of putting the cart before the horse. Hard for some to see past the end of their nose, and even harder to see the law of unintended consequences. But hey, you do you!

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      Recycling for EV batteries is here. If there are lithium batteries in warehouses somewhere, these guys would like to know:

      https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/recyclewithus

      • 0 avatar
        4onthefloor

        That is small scale recycling, and it is yet to be seen if economy of scale is there. It’s great that recycling technology is improving, but is in no way ready for the quantity of spent batteries about to be released on the world.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          No, Redwood’s process is designed to be scalable. Besides, LFP batteries have a 3000 full charge/discharge life which is 750,000 miles before its retention drops to 80%. It would be a long time before they need recycling.

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            Designed and implementation are two different things. Just ask model Y owners how well their rear doors are working. But but but, we designed them to work, why don’t they?

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            ” Just ask model Y owners”

            Tesla engineering is horrendous. All Tesla knows how to do well is write software. Everything else is garbage.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            What do the doors on a Tesla have to do with batteries? Nothing. And is Tesla the only manufacturer that has tried a product feature that worked like s**t? Nope.

            The straw man cometh.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “What do the doors on a Tesla have to do with batteries? Nothing.”

            Once again, the concept of an “analogy” is lost on you.

            a·nal·o·gy
            /əˈnaləjē/

            noun

            a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
            “an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies”

            a correspondence or partial similarity.
            “the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia”

            a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects.
            “works of art were seen as an analogy for works of nature”

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Ah, I see…so because the doors on some Teslas were badly designed, EVS are no good. That’s your analogy.

            Got it.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex


            Ah, I see…so because the doors on some Teslas were badly designed, EVS are no good. That’s your analogy.

            Got it.”

            “The straw man cometh”

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Yep, that was your analogy, EB. Thanks for repeating it.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      Hybrids are not new as well and most hybrid batteries last at least 10 or more years. Many hybrid batteries are given new life by replacing the dead cells which can be bought as replacement batteries at a fraction of the cost of a new battery. I currently own a hybrid which I got 50 mpg after my last fill up which many would consider good. For those who have range anxiety from going all EV the hybrid is a good alternative. Not everything that has a battery is bad. Hybrid vehicles are far from putting the cart before the horse and have several decades of reliable service case in point is the Prius with many of them going a couple of 100ks before the battery needs to be replaced. The very laptops and smart phones most of us use have batteries. You ICE vehicle has a battery that starts your engine.

  • avatar
    4onthefloor

    Spent batteries are also being used for electrical storage, on of the present detriments of renewable energy. We are also putting resources into windmills, which is akin to have into having personal power plants outside our homes, each requires expensive maintenance. Perhaps heliostats would be a bette use of time and energy, but again, energy storage is the limiting factor.

  • avatar
    4onthefloor

    While this article is from January of 2021, and technology has mad very small improvements, the premise remains the same. Again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, facts are indisputably.
    https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/01/21/opinion/electric-cars-have-dirty-little-recycling-problem-their-batteries

    • 0 avatar
      Astigmatism

      “Again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, facts are indisputably,” he says, immediately before posting an opinion column.

      To which you are entitled, of course.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Cobalt mining is so GREEN too! Thank God we can mine cobalt to make batteries that are filled with electricity that is made from butterflies and unicorns that then is used to power cars down the road.

    This green, “zero emission” stuff is amazing.

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      Separating genuine environmentalism from corporate spellcasting (greenspeak) has become an essential skill in the modern era.

    • 0 avatar
      BEPLA

      Because drilling holes in the ground/ocean floor for hydrocarbon goop to pump out/break rocks and steamclean out of the ground and transport all over the planet to be boiled into something else that gets transported all over the world to be burned in the airpump under the hood of your Canyonero has been proven to be 100% clean and safe and never used to exploit anyone? Tell us more.

  • avatar
    4onthefloor

    The latest. Knowledge is power.

    https://blog.getpitstop.com/nissans-new-battery-tech-is-a-potential-bomb/

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “The latest. Knowledge is power.”

      Oh no. Knowledge is the enemy. They don’t want an informed electorate. We saw that with the covid cold, deliberate suppression of legitimate news stories to influence an election, and then just outright nonsense like “Putin’s price hike”, or releasing oil from the reserves, or allowing E-15. It’s all smoke and mirrors.

      They think we are so dumb. We will see who gets the last laugh in November. Hopefully then we can get some adults elected and begin the lengthy process of righting this ship.

      • 0 avatar
        4onthefloor

        Oh I agree with you completely. Trump was, and will be again, a great leader, but a horrible human being. The thing is, I don’t need to like our President, just want a great performer. Some of the best bosses I ever had, taught me so much, but had vacuous personalities, and I avoided socializing with them whenever possible. Trump was a brash, narcissistic individual, but his intuition, work ethic and results were remarkable, especially since he had not only the democrats against him, he also had the media and the alphabet intelligence agency’s against him. That’s a heavy load to overcome, any yet he still accomplished more than Bush, Obama and Biden combined. We have unfortunately entered the age of the uninformed voter, and many who sling mud because they can not advance, or refute the argument.

        • 0 avatar
          Jeff S

          Agree we need a strong supporter of Putin that will liberate us for Nazis. Lets start with some tanks and missiles. Nothing like a strong man who admires dictators. I don’t have to like our President either but I don’t want a President that admires dictators and lusts after their power. There is a happy medium between having liberals in control and having those who aspire to dictatorship.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “Agree we need a strong supporter of Putin”

            Well we have that now. No bigger of Putin than Brandon. That’s why hes doing nothing to deter war criminal and his attack on Ukraine.

            It’s a vast difference from our last president who actually tried to warn of the dangers of not taking him seriously.

            But don’t let facts get in your way.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            Well you have the freedom to speak out against leaders you don’t agree with but under most dictators you would be imprisoned or executed for speaking out. Maybe you would prefer Putin and if so there might be a place for you in Russia. Our former President had high regard for Putin.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “Our former President had high regard for Putin.”

            See when you lie like that, nobody believes you. But actions speak louder than words and liberals act and model Putin more than anything. They love the control and censorship.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            No lie Trump bragged about how smart Putin is and what a smart move he made going into Ukraine. Numerous times he has given vocal support to Putin. There are actual videos of him saying these things. Either he is joking or he is actually saying what he believes in. You might want a strong leader up until you lose the right to free speech but then it will be too late. I am less worried about liberals taking over than someone who admires and wants the power of dictators. You can vote liberals out of office but once a dictator takes over then all of your rights are suspended. Our former President has numerous times stated that he wants to be President for life and admires those who have this power. Never in my lifetime do I recall any President of the United States of America stating that they wanted to be President for life and admiring dictators whether they were Democrats or Republicans. I also never recall a President during a campaign that told his supporters to beat up anyone protesting at his rallies and offering to pay for their defense. Never heard a President state that if he shot people on Time Square that he would still have the majority supporting him. Either you take Trump at his word or not. This is similar to what Hitler and Mussolini did. We don’t need another wannabe dictator in the White House that we might not ever be able to remove from office.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “No lie Trump bragged about how smart Putin is and what a smart move he made going into Ukraine.”

            Is he wrong? Putin isn’t dumb….and looking at his mission in Ukraine, he was smart to wait until the US had a feeble, empty suit to invade.

            People can be evil and smart at the same time. It’s not an uncommon thing.

          • 0 avatar
            Astigmatism

            “Is he wrong?”

            Well, a quarter of his best soldiers have been killed, injured or captured along with large numbers of tanks, APCs and planes, he’s now drawing soldiers from Syria and elsewhere and begging Syria and China to help Russia out by providing troops and military equipment; he’s reinvigorated NATO to a degree not seen in decades, brought about a build-up of soldiers and aircraft at NATO bases all over Eastern Europe and will likely now have 800 more miles of NATO bordering Russia once Finland joins; Russia’s economy is in freefall, its central bank was forced to hike interest rates to nearly 20% to prevent the Ruble from disintegrating, it’s defaulted on its debt, most Western employers have fled the country and withdrawn their investments, its people are largely cut off from the goods and services they came to expect over the 30 years since the fall of the Soviet Union, and Russia basically announced today that they’ll sell their oil to any friendly country at any price; and Ukraine is united in seething, generational hatred of Russia, to the point where native Russian speakers are vowing never to speak Russian again and anything to do with Russian culture has become toxic to ordinary Ukrainians.

            I’m not really seeing what’s “genius” about it, personally.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          “We have unfortunately entered the age of the uninformed voter”

          Uninformed vs. willful ignorance vs. propagandized

          I’d say it’s more the latter 2. How else to explain how so many people have allowed Trump to live rent free in their heads for years. Neither Trump nor Jared would ever let anyone live rent free in their low income housing. Not on their watch.

          Besides, there’s no shortage of accurate information available. People know the vaccines don’t prevent you from getting or prevent you from transmitting CoV, yet millions still act like that’s exactly what vacc’s do.

          Arguing about it is like arguing with an Alaskan Husky.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      @4onthefloor,

      I read that battery link you posted and it is super-stupid even by TTAC standards.

  • avatar
    4onthefloor

    As I had mentioned earlier, electric transportation is the future, not the now. Lack of universal charger standards is another impediment to significant adoption, and while there are adapters, including additional resistance in a high voltage, high amperage circuit is a recipe for disaster. Thea you are also much heavier than Ice Vehicles, so I suggest not testing the law of physics in potential accidents. They also require low rolling resistance tires that have less grip, and inflation pressures must be closely monitored. Be careful in the rain. And lastly they chew up roads rapidly, because much mor torque, and he who doesn’t like that. Research is key when making any argument or investment.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      “Lack of universal charger standards is another impediment to significant adoption”

      Based on the Tesla charging stations I have witnessed, the fact that commoners [like me] aren’t allowed is a feature, not a bug. (It certainly would be for me if I owned a Tesla.)

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “As I had mentioned earlier, electric transportation is the future, not the now.”

      Correct. A slow, metered approach would have been better allowing EV technology to allow for a viable alternative to ICE vehicles and allow people to organically adopt the technology.

      You do that by drastically increasing hybrid and plug-in hybrid offerings that are not sandbagged compared to their ICE counterparts. For instance, the Escape can tow 3500 pounds. The hybrid should match that. The Escape pickup can tow 4000 pounds, the hybrid should match that.

      But by largely bypassing those vehicles and offering inferior EVs, you are going to sour more people on them than gain customers.

      • 0 avatar
        4onthefloor

        Of course you are correct. Would it not have been better to have a well thought out recycling technology before politicians attempted to force electric vehicles down our throats, and potentially creating our own personal superfund sites? Hybrids are currently the way to go, for as you mentioned, the vehicle will still provide transportation to some extent, even as the batteries are depleted. What amuses me the most is manufacturers producing electric off road vehicles, raising the possibility of being stranded in the middle of nowhere with the inability to recharge a fully electric, or in the case of a hybrid, the inability to have enough power to extract one’s self from the predicament they find themselves in. Nothing like being stuck in a precarious situation, hoping someone has a generator on hand that can charge it back up in a shorter than 24 hour timeframe.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Ah, yes, the “unless the tech is 1,000% perfect, with all possible unintended consequences completely thought out, it is to be shunned” argument.

          Funny how folks didn’t feel that way about gas powered cars when they were introduced. Guess we should still be using the ol’ horse and buggy.

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            But the alternatives that have been mostly perfected do exist, and it’s called the internal combustion vehicle. I would love to continue conversing with you, but you are a stone cold devils advocate, and words without thought spew from you mouth like toilet paper that has been pulled to hard from the roll, so I will no longer reply to anything you have to say. I have seen many of your posts, and they all display this most undesirable trait. You will need to practice your uneducated bullying tactics on someone else. Good luck, and goodbye.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “Ah, yes, the “unless the tech is 1,000% perfect, with all possible unintended consequences completely thought out, it is to be shunned” argument.”

            How did that go again? How did you put it just a little bit ago:

            “The straw man cometh.”

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “But the alternatives that have been mostly perfected do exist, and it’s called the internal combustion vehicle.”

            Correct. Nobody is is actually saying that the tech need to be “1,000% perfect”. Once again that is an absurd straw man argument. But it’s REASONABLE (they *hate* that word) to want a technology that matches or exceeds what is available in most areas. But most of the advantages of EVs are just not there.

            -They are not better for the environment, in fact, often worse.
            -The take much longer to fuel
            -“Fueling” stations are scarce compared to gasoline stations
            -Range is much shorter than even basic ICE vehicles
            -Range drops considerably in the cold (which, isn’t a huge issue if you could fuel them quickly and everywhere).
            -You can only refuel to 80% and then it’s a trickle charge…which is nuts.

            The technology is just not ready. It will get there, but forcing a flawed technology that has no tangible benefits (right now) is short sighted. There is nothing wrong with making sure the technology meets the current standard (ICE vehicles) before forcing adoption through legislation.

            It would be like demanding all incandescent light bulbs (25w-300w) with LED but the LED bulbs can only equal the output of a 25w bulb. Not the smartest thing…

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            @FreedMike–There were those who were concerned about the safety and viability of the horseless carriage. If this were the turn of the last century many of these same people who are against EVs and hybrids would use the same argument against automobiles and saying horses and buggies are more affordable and safer and that Henry Ford was a charlatan and that those liberal politicians were encouraging automobiles because they didn’t want horses defecating in the streets. Those horrible liberals actual want cleaner streets and that is an infringement upon our rights.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Source Jeff?

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Gas powered cars were better than the horse and buggy in nearly every way. EVs are basically cars that accelerate quicker but take longer to refuel you fncking troll.

        • 0 avatar
          sgeffe

          Most of the vehicles of which you speak will “off-road” by climbing the curb at the mall or in the school drop-off lane.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @sgeffe:

            Here’s the “argument” method: pick one metric where EVs won’t measure up to conventional vehicles, and therefore, “cAuSE eV EzKaPE dOnT ToW gUud EvS sUk.”

            Never mind that a) as you say, about .005% of Escape buyers actually tow, and b) an EV Escape would probably have its’ own set of advantages over a conventionally powered one (faster, quieter, can be filled up nightly in your garage, etc.).

            And, oh yeah…battery recycling is a joke because the doors on the Tesla Model Y didn’t work right.

            Just throw out some irrelevancies, a few straw men, add in some far-right paranoia, and voila! Anti-EV argument.

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            While that my be true, shouldn’t a vehicle sold to the public be capable af doing what it is advertised to do.? If it doesn’t, people quickly catch on and only the clueless will purchase them. And even they will catch on eventually. It similar to the Rav 4 hybrid AWD that powers the rear wheels with electric motors that if I recall correctly, reverts to 2 wheel drive when the battery is depleted. Could be the PHEV, but I don’t pay much attention to these type of vehicles.

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            While that my be true, shouldn’t a vehicle sold to the public be capable af doing what it is advertised to do.? If it doesn’t, people quickly catch on and only the clueless will purchase them. And even they will catch on eventually. It similar to the Rav 4 hybrid AWD that powers the rear wheels with electric motors that if I recall correctly, reverts to 2 wheel drive when the battery is depleted. Could be the PHEV, but I don’t pay much attention to these type of vehicles.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            ” “cAuSE eV EzKaPE dOnT ToW gUud EvS sUk.””

            You are such a child. I literally cannot stop laughing.

            “Never mind that a) as you say, about .005% of Escape buyers actually tow”

            Citation needed.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “While that my be true, shouldn’t a vehicle sold to the public be capable af doing what it is advertised to do.?”

            An EV is a car. A car is designed to get its occupants and stuff from point A to point B. That’s what the companies who make them are advertising. Are EVs incapable of this? If so, then you have a point. But, of course, EVs are perfectly capable of this, so you have no point.

            Are EVs incapable of towing as well as gas powered vehicles right now? No. And no one’s advertising otherwise. Therefore, the solution for people who want to tow is to buy something else. There are plenty of perfectly capable tow vehicles out there.

      • 0 avatar
        Jeff S

        Since I now own what you call an “Escape Pickup” I can speak from experience. What experience do you have with a hybrid vehicle? I didn’t buy a Maverick to tow 4,000 lbs I bought it to have a vehicle with an open bed that was more versatile than a traditional vehicle, got good mpgs, and that is affordable. If I needed a vehicle that could tow heavy loads I would have bought a full size V8 powered truck but I did not need or want that. Tell us all your experience with a hybrid truck or vehicle since you seem to be an expert. I am not telling people to buy hybrids or EVs or not to buy a large truck buy what you want and need. I am also not putting others choices down and claiming to be an expert on all vehicles.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      @4onthefloor:

      The more you talk, the more foolish you sound.

      Fact: My ‘future’ Leaf was a 2012. My ‘future’ Ioniq EV’ is a 2019.
      Fact: Together they’ve cost me $2100 in electricity to drive 70k miles.
      Fact: EVs go well in the rain, and stick very well to the road.
      Fact: Teslas are the safest cars to crash in, according to the NHTSA.
      Opinion: I’ll take my chances crashing in an EV rather than an ICE car with a 20-gallon bomb under the floor.
      Fact: EV torque isn’t instant if you don’t floor it. EVs go well in the snow.

      These are facts from my experience, and others.

      What voice in your head provides your facts?

      • 0 avatar
        4onthefloor

        Out of all the choices in electric cars, you buy a leaf? The one with no battery monitoring at all? That’s the worst choice among a lot of bad choices. It’s not the voice in my head, I use that to make real money not argue with libs that can’t see the forest for the trees. Common sense will tell you that the vast majority of electric cars/SUV’s are heavier than their ice counterparts. Physics will tell you that an object in motion tend to stay in motion ,and that motion is reduced when friction enters the equation. The heavier an object is the more resistant to turning, all else being equal. Source? Engineering and physics degree. And your degree is in? I didn’t think so. You and Freed Mike should get together because it is better to sit there and look like an idiot, than to start typing and remove all doubt. I was aware that discussing things with people who are uneducated would try to drag me down to their level, you and freedmike just reaffirmed it. Do you not have the ability to research things for yourself? Remember, reading is FUNdamental! Try it some time. While there are many intelligent people on this website, you and Mike are unfortunately not among them. Good luck at trade in time on your leaf. That money you saved on gas will be lost on the back end. Jeez it’s no wonder this country is going in the crapper. The dumbing down of America continues.

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          I object that my comment regarding chargers (which was pertinent and only aspirationally elitist) was stepped over and ignored like Monday’s leftovers. My ego has been wounded and I shall now drive aggressively for the rest of the week in a futile attempt to compensate.

          Also, please meet my friend the Enter key. When you tap it twice, you get a Paragraph.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          “It’s not the voice in my head, I use that to make real money not argue with libs that can’t see the forest for the trees.”

          So…if the guy drives an EV he must be a “lib.” Well, gee, why don’t you ask him what his affiliation is? You might just be surprised. And the guy’s telling you he’s had a positive experience owning two EVs. What’s the problem with that? Is he not allowed to like the cars he owns?

          You’re derping it up rather nicely here.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        “These are facts from my experience”

        LOL, those are facts that support your opinion. Your comment about your EV going ‘well’ in the rain has much more to do with tire choice and wear than other elements, but hey, you’re entitled to your own facts…. I guess.

        And you end with insulting someone’s intelligence? Oh my. Not a good look for you.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          SCE was responding to 4TrollsOnTheFloor, who was implying that EVs don’t do well in rain. He’s also implied they’re unsafe. Now, maybe people like EVs, maybe they don’t. But the implications are bulls**t.

          Personally, I think EB just created this clown persona so he could have another poster to agree with him.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      “Lack of universal charger standards is another impediment to significant adoption, ”

      Not true at all. There is a standard. CCS. There’s an organization that manages the standard. Tesla is working with them on the 1+GW standard. Tesla is also installing CCS ports at superchargers.

  • avatar

    LowIQ

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    I guess the turn of the last century is too soon for many so in that case EVs are new especially when compared to the horse and buggy.

  • avatar

    I am confused. That car on the top photo is Geo Cobalt or it is a Pontiac?

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