By on December 10, 2021

General Motors CEO Mary Barra has chimed in on the weeklong open discussion about whether or not it’s a good idea for America to embrace the Biden administration’s EV tax credit plan, which just so happens to be deeply intertwined with the Build Back Better Act’s cavalcade of federal initiatives.

As we’ve already covered the topic more than once, we’ll avoid the recap and simply post the relevant links where Tesla CEO Elon Musk recommended pitching the entire bill into the trash and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg went to bat for the White House by suggesting the updated tax scheme was a necessity for electrification to thrive. Barra opted to go with the latter take, stating that it could help accelerate EV adoption.

Though it’s hardly a surprise as GM is the automaker that has the most to gain from the revised EV tax incentive proposal. The company is the only manufacturer (other than Tesla) to have sold enough cars to exhaust the current federal quotas, making it ineligible to receive any more government-backed discounts on its electrified products. During the Obama administration, it was broadly assumed that the incentives would be used to help get the ball rolling on new-energy vehicles while they were so much more expensive than internal combustion cars.

However the Build Back Better Act (H. R. 5376) seeks to nullify those limitations by ending the vehicle quotas and permitting government aid to go on almost indefinitely. As things currently stand, Congress is considering phasing out the Biden tax credit scheme in 2032 or nixing payouts once U.S. electric vehicle sales exceed 50 percent annually (they’re currently under 2 percent). While some have framed this as wiping the slate clean, many other manufacturers (e.g. Toyota) have suggested this leaves the two automakers who already reached their quotas a decided advantage. But Tesla doesn’t support the updated tax incentive plan either, with Elon Musk insisting that EVs eventually need to stand on their own.

There are different versions of H. R. 5376 in the House and Senate and both carve out an extra $2,500-4,500 financial credit for vehicles manufactured by unionized labor. This sets up GM and Ford to receive up to $12,500 per vehicle by way of purchasing subsidies. Other companies (Tesla included) receive substantially less. But the House variant of Build Back Better also has provisions that could restrict exceptionally wealthy households or particularly expensive vehicles from taking advantage of the plan.

This is the one thing that could be a thorn in General Motors’ side were Build Back Better to pass. The gargantuan all-electric GMC Hummer is unlikely to retail below $80,000 in its most basic format. There are also fears that the upcoming electric pickups being plotted by Ford and GM may exceed the pricing cap in certain configurations. However Congress set financial bar highest for pickups at a pretty juicy $74,000 — almost like they were intentionally trying to assist legacy manufacturers.

Though Barra’s focus on Thursday was lower than that. Despite her company gearing up to sell extra large EVs with lofty price tags, she told the Automotive Press Association that the new EV tax incentives could be a blessing for those in the market for a $30,000 car (like the Chevy Bolt).

“Do those individuals need that support to make the transition? I think it’s reasonable if you’re trying to accelerate [EV adoption],” she said.

“That’s their only vehicle, and they depend on it. If they don’t get to work, it impacts their livelihood … Reaching that customer is where you’re really going to get scale, and I’m very proud that at General Motors, we do that with the Chevrolet brand, across the board, from trucks to the crossovers to smaller vehicles.”

As we haven’t seen GM’s upcoming value EVs, we’ll have to wait until the company showcases its launch plan at next month’s CES to see where they stand. Currently, the manufacture is supposed to release affordable compact and midsized electric crossovers as the first wave of 30 EV assault that’s supposed to conclude in 2025. But those only come after it’s launched the big-n-pricy Silverado and Hummer battery powered vehicles.

[Image: General Motors]

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102 Comments on “GM CEO Says Incentives May Help America Transition to EVs...”


  • avatar
    CaddyDaddy

    A few posts ago or many posts ago, CaddyDaddy stated that GM had no interest in producing quality automobiles currently or in the future. To do so would require too much brain power and hard work of those on the upper floors of the Ren Center.

    In fact with .gov including a former mayor of South Bend being given absolute power to distribute $200B slush fund for transportation infrastructure, it’s all falling into plan. GM had the inside that the ez road to fat salaries and big bonuses was to cozy up to .gov. with the Green(RED) new deal.

    The way to do it was sabotage their current lineup with garbage, get K street scum to talk and line the pockets of those on Capitol Hill, and shazam: Subsidies for EV development/production, tax incentives for those who are forced to buy and a new Cash 4 Clunkers scheme.

  • avatar
    schmitt trigger

    Caddy Daddy;
    Sad but very true comments.
    The sad part is that for a bill to pass, it must be heavily coated with pork.

  • avatar
    Rick T.

    “The gargantuan all-electric GMC Hummer is unlikely to retail below $80,000 in its most basic format…pickups at a pretty juicy $74,000”

    Sorry, no. If you can afford those prices for a vehicle you can pay the extra few grand without a subsidy. Better off to take those funds and put in some more charging infrastructure for the proles if the money has to be “spent” at all.

  • avatar
    brn

    Business says that free money to their customers to buy their product will help.

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      Just ask Elon:

      “.. Elon Musk says the U.S. government should drop all EV subsidies. In fact, he wants Congress to drop President Biden’s infrastructure plan, saying the federal budget deficit is insane. But the LA Times points out that Mr. Musk received nearly $5 billion in government subsidies for Tesla, Space X and Solar City. So, is the attack on subsidies wise words from a business tycoon, or the height of hypocrisy…” Autoline

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        “But the LA Times points out that Mr. Musk received nearly $5 billion in government subsidies for Tesla, Space X and Solar City.”

        That’s interesting – care to expand on that claim?

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          SCE,

          You believe Musk didn’t receive subsidies? At what point do Tesla fans exit the reality distortion field?

          • 0 avatar
            SCE to AUX

            My question was serious.

            Subsidies and incentives take several forms.

            Obviously EV buyers can receive a Federal tax break of $7500 *if* their W2 qualifies. Alternately, they have that amount discounted from the price of the car if they lease – no income questions asked.

            Another form is the corporate welfare that everyone cries about but politicians hand out like Halloween candy. Every car maker has been receiving that for years, usually in the form of tax abatement for a period of time.

            Then there is the direct handout from the government to the company. I’m not aware of anything like that with Tesla. SpaceX has government contracts, but also many commercial ones. A ‘subsidy’ to SpaceX would require some definition.

            I don’t know anything about Solar City, except that its products aren’t cost-effective for someone like me.

            As for me being a Tesla fan, you’ve not been paying attention.

          • 0 avatar
            dantes_inferno

            There are Tesla fans and there are Tesla cultists. The cultists are reaching critical mass – just like tattoos, piercings, dyed hair, etc.

  • avatar
    mor2bz

    “That’s their only vehicle, and they depend on it. If they don’t get to work, it impacts their livelihood … Reaching that customer is where you’re really going to get scale, and I’m very proud that at General Motors, we do that with the Chevrolet brand, across the board, from trucks to the crossovers to smaller vehicles.”

    Can you understand this? I guess she is saying that people who have
    brodozers work, and only have the brodozer. Or if they have a compact
    vehicle, they will not own a truck.

    This from the people who smashed the EV1, and were given billions to
    “R&D” battery development in 2008. And what did they come up with?

    I hear that the Volt was actually a pretty decent vehicle, so it makes
    sense that they have done away with it.

    GMC. Got a Mechanic Coming.

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      The GMC Hummer EV is just a halo car, have you heard of that before?

      What happened to RAV EV, S-10 EV, Ranger EV, that were all smashed also? Someone needs EV history brushed up!

    • 0 avatar
      3800FAN

      Yep youre 100% correct. GM spent billions on the volt and voltech powertrain. Corpotate didnt market it, it didnt sell as a result and the dumbasses cancled it. It was a great car too! And they didnt just kill the volt, while toyota honda hyundai and even FORD have expanded their hybrid tech to the rest of their lineup GM JUST BURIED IT! While toyota sells as many rav4 hybrids as they can make, hybrid equinox? Traverse? Nope nope nope. Look where rhey put their capital, full size v8 body on frame cars just like in the 50s 60s and 70s. Its why I tell people dont listen to this gm ev bs. Its all propaganda to please the dems. F gm.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        “…Look where they put their capital, full size v8 body on frame cars just like in the 50s 60s and 70s.”

        Got a link to all of these full sized V8 BOF cars they are currently selling?

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Good writeup, Matt.

    If the 2009 incentives didn’t help GM enough over the last *decade*, then what will? They’re hopeless.

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      I often feel like big corporations who continue getting government payouts/bailouts/handouts (which is a pretty long list) after they fail is a lot like bratty kids who have parents that continue spoiling them.

  • avatar
    BobNelsonYuma

    Why are incentives always in the form of rebates? I don’t pay taxes in the US (I do pay them elsewhere), so a rebate is worthless to me.
    I have a “stateside car” that I may replace in the near future. It won’t be electric because EVs are too expensive.
    Catch-22!

  • avatar
    Garrett

    Making a vehicle that fits the wants and needs of the public, at a price they can afford, without trickery is the key.

    Give me 1,000 mile range, with a charging time of less than 30 minutes, with a zero-60 time of 5 seconds or less and a top speed of 155mph. Inside, the car needs physical buttons for HVAC, controlling the audio system, and adjusting the heated and cooled seats.

    From a body perspective, it needs to have some sort of a hatch with adequate cargo room. Ideally a wagon, but a crossover would work as well. It also needs AWD.

    All of this can already be obtained in a regular ICE powered car.

    Before someone says the 1,000 mile range isn’t fair, I’m looking at the fact that you probably can’t get charging time down as easily as you can increase range. If I can currently go 350 miles before stopping at a fill up that takes less than 10 minutes, then I’m being generous here.

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    First of all get rid of that idiotic Toyota video that covers half the page on my iPhone.

    Second, GM so sad. You are desperate for Branden full credit. To sell electrics. Your cars outside big trucks and SUVs and Corvette are sad. Your electrics are sad. You need to compete at same levels with no credit or go out of business for good.

    Long Live Tesla.

  • avatar
    CaddyDaddy

    The only way the press release photo could be more Virtue Signaling would be for Mary to be wearing a mask with her sleeve rolled up showing her 3rd booster shot bandage on her arm wearing a “Tax the Rich” gown.

    As far as Elon, he now knows with other companies getting new mega subsidies, the game is up on his monopoly. Time to sell all his stock and cash in his chips. Subsidies will also coincide with UAW (Democratic Money Laundering scheme) assembly plants. Another death nail for Tesla. They did not get the name Govt. Motors for nothing…

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      You missed the part where Mr Musk wants to keep the status quo, in which Tesla’s competitors continue receiving the 2009 incentives but Tesla does not.

      At this point, the Tesla ‘monopoly’ is 2/3 EV market share in the US, and dropping.

  • avatar
    DedBull

    Upping the tax credit to $12,500 only helps the rich buy bigger toys. As a reminder: this is a NON-REFUNDABLE tax credit. You would have to have a tax liability after deductions of $12,500 to take full advantage of this credit. Anybody looking for a $30,000 car probably has little to no tax liability for the year.

    My wife and I make just shy of $100K a year, and have 2 kids. After normal deductions, our tax liability for the year is well below the current $7,500. You could make it $40,000 and it wouldn’t matter, most middle class consumers would not be able to take advantage of it.

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      The House has recommended provision to limit how much a household can earn annually or how much a specific vehicle can cost to remain eligible. But the limits are QUITE high:

      $400K for individuals
      $600K head of household
      $800k for joint file

      $55K for sedans
      $64K for vans
      $69K for SUV/crossovers
      $74k for pickups

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      Tax credit might become Refundable (still in flux of course):
      https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-tax-credit-senate-vote-biden/

  • avatar
    MitchConner

    Elon Musk is smart. He has founded multiple successful companies and created thousands of good jobs while making billions for himself. He says the incentives should go.

    Joe Biden has been a stupid fool who has been caught plagiarizing the work of smart people more than once, has zero real world business experience during his long, pathetic existence, and can’t even direct a military retreat properly. His son is a career grifter who has made millions by jumping in bed with the evil Chinese — complete with his dumb Dad’s support. He thinks they’re great.

    You can either be an Elon or a Joe. Take your pick.

    • 0 avatar
      redapple

      Good ole Joe from Scranton came from a modest family. In 2014 as VP his salary was $230K. His Highest salary in his career to that point. So tell me:

      1- how does he afford multiple $5-10million dollar houses.
      2- why is the PRESS NOT ASKING THIS QUESTION?

      A REAL Pulitzer could be won ferreting this out fully.
      But no silly, he s doing a great job

      PS- The 6.8% inflation announced today is really 10-12% using 1970s calculation method.
      PPS- But Brandon won fair and square. Yessir.
      PPPS- At least we got rid of the mean tweets. I mean Trump once tweeted, (RE Baseball opening ceremony) “Fauci throws like a girl” (funny actually and true). Ah but we ‘ll have non of that.

      after the Olympics -China takes Taiwan. Putin takes Ukraine. Iran does some mischief. ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
      Brandon will hide in the corner.
      They d never have tried it under trump. But – no more mean tweets. yes!

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @redapple –

        “1- how does he afford multiple $5-10million dollar houses.
        2- why is the PRESS NOT ASKING THIS QUESTION?”

        How about financing and investments? The dude’s old. He’s had a good income for most of his adult life.
        As far as the media “not asking this question”… how about this, it isn’t worth asking.

        I don’t see you asking how the past president managed to get himself out of multiple bankruptcies and getting loans when main stream banks wouldn’t touch him.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      Elon got his so now he wants to roll up the carpet.

      He seemed to be fine accepting all of that sweet government sugar when it benefited him. Carbon credits? Who gave him those?

      The Church of Elon followers don’t understand this.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        Not so.

        He wants to keep the existing 2009 incentives in place for everyone else.

        When Tesla still qualified for them, they were worth less than 10% of the price of their cars, but 20% of a Nissan or GM, so you’d expect Nissan or GM to do better than Tesla, but that’s not how it turned out.

        • 0 avatar
          Mustangfast

          He must have actually succeeded in lowering battery and other component costs to a level they can’t catch? Or he just doesn’t like the boondoggle of a bill and does t think that’s worth keeping

  • avatar
    Crosley

    Shocked that a car company CEO wants corporate welfare that specifically benefits their company.

    These subsidies were always about getting electric cars “off the ground”, now the 3 most valuable car companies in the world are exclusively electric car companies.

    Gravy train is over, and who cares if it speeds things up a few years? Not worth throwing billions at a problem that is already solved.

  • avatar
    Varezhka

    If 10 years of multi-billion dollar subsidy was not enough to jump start the EV market, then there’s something wrong with the product. Spending even more money for a longer period of time and expecting a different result is insane.

    If Biden was actually serious about reducing automotive greenhouse gas, there are much better ways to spend those billions. But then, it won’t be as sexy sounding as EVs nor will it help Detroit.

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    “…this change underlines the limitations to the digitized services automakers plan to lock behind subscription fees…” Now that’s a silver lining in what might otherwise be just a dark cloud.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    Mary has done a great job at absorbing all of old/new GM’s qualities – poor leadership, overseeing fiefdoms that have hobbled the company for decades and as we’re seeing here, begging for more bailout money.

    The difference between Nissan and GM is that at least Nissan had leadership in its past. GM’s had a continual congo line of empty suits.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    Lets print more incentives

    • 0 avatar
      JD-Shifty

      Slavuta, quit whining and move somewhere “better”

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        I’ll talk to you when you are in the soup line

        • 0 avatar
          bullnuke

          @slavuta – Agreed, my friend.

        • 0 avatar
          JD-Shifty

          “I’ll talk to you when you are in the soup line” In other words, never.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Americans have surprisingly short memory https://tinyurl.com/9p23rdax
            And very low history IQ. They think that what happened somewhere can’t happen in America. But it is happening already.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuta – “Americans have surprisingly short memory” The Great Depression was from “August 1929 – March 1933”. Someone born in 1933 is going to be 88 years old. There aren’t going to be many people alive that were there. Those of Depression era parents may have been exposed to stories of that era (like I was) but for the most part, Boomers are a spoiled bunch.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Lou

            what about today? Today is December 11th. I see nothing in the news

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuta – too many people have the attitude that as long as I got mine,I don’t care what happens to everyone else. We see people here posting that a country needs a lower class, a destitute class. It’s mind-numbing to see and hear.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @lou_bc: you nailed it. The “Me” generation and their offspring:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            It’s less “I got mine, screw you” and more “I worked my tail off to get mine, maybe do the same”.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “I worked my tail off to get mine, maybe do the same”.

            Except that’s definitely not always the case. I can guarantee you that any food service worker works far harder than I do, but makes a minute fraction of my earnings. The same goes for many of my friends and neighbors. Some of my neighbors are fund managers. They don’t work hard, but bring in millions.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            “working ones tail off” is more than just effort expended on the job. Bus boys work hard. They also do a job that can be learned in 10 minutes. Should they make Gordon Ramsey money? He’s in “food service” too after all.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @Art, In most of Canada when setting pay rates, the factors one must consider are a)skill, b) effort, c) responsibility and d) working conditions. The pandemic has demonstrated that a great many of the higher paid jobs, in particular ‘managerial jobs’ are not only not essential, they can most likely be eliminated. And that a great many service jobs were truly undervalued. The biggest concern however is with ‘carpet bagging’ senior executives who move from corporation to corporation, being taken care of and taking care of their ‘network’ who serve on multiple Boards. They paid each others bonuses, stock options and remuneration, and often strip the corporation in order to inflate its stock price then sell of and move on to the next ‘victim’. This type of ‘short term/quarterly’ management has helped to weaken North American manufacturing and often results in the off-shoring jobs or the ‘sale’ of naming rights to 3rd parties. How many of the well known and trusted brands of decades past now actually manufacture their own products?

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Agreed. This is why I worked my tail off to get actual skills. So called “managers” like that come and go (though actual managers that are invested earn every penny and I am thankful for them as I don’t want to do that sort of job). I’ll pass on subsidizing those that decided not to make similar sacrifices.

            Besides, why would we treat those unskilled jobs any differently than say. unskilled work in agriculture. Maybe these are just jobs that “Americans won’t do anymore” and we should treat them in a similar manner (turn a blind eye to the illegals filling them because we really like those .49 cent haeads of lettuce).

            I can tell you that when we began to return to normal after the pandemic (maybe), we looked at who we hadn’t needed to come to work for most of the prior year and informed them we wouldn’t need them in the next year either.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Art Vandelay

            “It’s less “I got mine, screw you” and more “I worked my tail off to get mine, maybe do the same”.”

            There was a study done that looked at “upward mobility”. More specifically, if you were born into poverty, how many generations would it take for you to move up to the “next level”. The USA number was one of the worst. The gap is even larger for those in poverty rising to the very top.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Well then Lou, maybe we should be looking at the “root causes” of that type of poverty. I am all ears for things like making Trade School free and funding other ways of giving the poor the means to not be poor. I disagree that subsidizing the lifestyle that has made them poor is an effective strategy however.

            I am even less convinced that subsidizing General Motors yet again helps the poor one iota.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          Wait…I thought Slavita ate his soup with the Taliban. His words…not mine.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Wait, I ate my soup well cooked by good Uzbek chef serving under my command. Soup from the soup line…. different.

            Then again, I ate soup with many different individuals at different times – Armenians, Chechens, Azeris, dudes from Baltic states. How about Ukrainian Greeks and Kazakhstan Germans. Look who I am talking to right now on the phone – A Lithuanian who is more pro USSR than I. And he speaks Russian with a huge accent.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            BTW, may be you know what happened on December 11? The day nobody even mentioned on that day

  • avatar

    GM has been declared the leader in EV production, yet they do not currently sell a single EV. When is the GM dog and pony show going to end?

    It will probably be March before the Bolt’s battery issues are resolved.

  • avatar

    What happens when debt is larger than GDP and interest rates reach historic highs? Do you suggest to invest all money into stocks or bond funds? Or convert it to Renminbi?

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Yuan will be your world reserve currency.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        Honestly, if we are a retreat away from current globalization in the supply chain, which we are likely to see on some level, most everyone will feel the pain. However when we all come out on the other side, The US should be in decent shape as we are pretty rich in resources and have the luxury of being able to feed our population without relying on a bunch of imported food. I assume that last bit is why there are a bunch of Russians amassing on the Ukrainian border.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          We may not be in a retreat. Because of IP issues, the government might not allow the import of chemical mechanical planarization slurries needed for semiconductor manufacturing.

          https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-optiplane-chip-shortages

          After my own run-ins with government bureaucracies earlier this year, uggh. It’s a wonder anything gets done in this country.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            mcs, government run-ins occur everywhere. It’s just that most people accept it instead of making it better.

            Look at how vocal people in SF are FINALLY getting about the rampant drug use, crime and homelessness. It finally got to a point where real liberals have finally started acting in accordance with their beliefs.

            Same goes for most school districts that are failing to teach and engage kids, and then districts and states wonder why test scores are in the toilet.

            When people start engaging, things change. But it takes a lot of effort to get that done.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Mary is just another pig at the trough.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            My friend had this run-in with the government. He needed to build a retaining wall on the property edging against federal property. Which is a federal waterway. He needed to cut down 3 trees. It took 3 months to get answer from the coast guard officer who is also a biologist. This guys said – if this is mangrove – you can’t cut this. But my friend has sent the leaf samples and few days later he receives the call from this officer – “Sir, you must immediately remove these trees from your property border because these are Chinese invasive species, they are not allowed.”

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          The USA would be ‘in decent shape’ due to its access to Canadian resources. This includes the Alberta oil sands, Canadian fresh water, Canadian timber, electricity generated in Canada and the resource rich ‘Ring of Fire’ in northern Ontario.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            If US will not buy Canadian resources, who will? China? China will go to Russia for it just to make you mad

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            @Arthur Dailey

            China will work with Canada as long as you lick their …. Just say something about something, and they will drop Canada like a rock. They are interested to work with Canada because they will penetrate your institutions, something they can’t do well in Russia. They can occupy half of Siberia in Russia but not institutions.

            “why is the Ukrainian government is requesting emergency assistance from the ‘West’?”

            You see – the gov. not the people. People, including on TV or bloggers are laughing. All of it. And I mean – ALL Ukraine-West talks are nothing but informational hype. Why – easy to see. Ukrainian president is trapped. He has all forces against him
            – Ukrainian Supreme court refuses to dismiss a judge president recalled. US authorities sanctions this judge
            – Media outlets friendly to Zelensky turning away from him. Including his best friend – Gordon
            – Oligarchs are now firmly against president because he is conduit for US interests and these interests are in conflicts
            – People – all people, the regular people, the nationalists, just everybody now protest against this guy

            And Biden. Biden needs some positive agenda. Why not pretend that it is he who put peace between Russia and Ukraine. But all of it is just BS. Nobody in Ukraine has any twitches that Russia will come tomorrow. As one smart Ukrainian observer said – Ukraine’s (meaning current government) problem is not that Russia will remember/think about it but rather that Russia will forget about it. Without Russia, there is nothing that Ukraine can sell to the West.

            But I feel, explaining this to you is a waste. You can read Ukrainian publications. Google still has translation service up and running. Google for “strana ua”

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            @Arthur Dailey

            2 things. 1 Putin said nothing wrong. And many in Ukraine agree with this. 2 – it has nothing to do with the current situation, what he said.

            In my view – collapse of USSR was bad not only for USSR, Ukraine, Armenia, etc but for US and West in general.

            Here is why bad for the West – with competition is gone, Western governments now act like autocratic totalitarian regimes. Check what is going on in Australia, Germany, and even US etc. Before there was an idea – we’re free, they are in prison. So, the people think, “our government is good”. Now that Russians are not in prison, there is nothing to even fight for. This is why now there is racism, equity, etc – new ideology that replaces freedom.

            Why bad for Ukraine. 50% of people in Ukraine (1991) where ethnic Russians. Then there were Pols, Magyars, Jews, Italians, Greeks, Ruthenians. Ukrainians were what? 35%? Now, hear me out. When part of Russia was attached to Ukraine in 1922 – no big deal. Same country. But in 1991 millions of people in the Eastern and southern Ukraine were cut off from their historical country. Look, if Ukraine is so great, why they have lost 16 million people since 1991? Independence so great for them. How come they lost entire industrial power. They used to build cars, buses, airplanes, space ships, rocket engines that were used by US projects. All of this is gone. I tell you what happened. G.H. Bush said this the best

            “Yet freedom is not the same as independence. Americans will not support those who seek independence in order to replace a far-off tyranny with a local despotism. They will not aid those who promote a suicidal nationalism based upon ethnic hatred.”

            And this is exactly what happened in Ukraine. While Stalin, Chengiz Khan, Mao, early US presidents – all were building an Empire, current US and Ukrainian “leaders” are busy to create conditions for their empires to fail.

            Hey, first Ukrainian president Kravchuk said this – “If I would know what Ukraine will turn into, I would never sign separation of USSR”. So Putin is not alone.

            I recommend to you deeper study the issue and not try to hang to the tip of the iceberg you read about in the press. If the Western “specialists” truly understood Russia/Ukraine they would do completely different things. But they are too dumb. And for you to read their output and BELIEVE into it only puts you right next to them. Remember Central Ukraine IS Russia, historical center of Russia but currently not part of Russian Federation. And how far did they go without a larger chunk of their own land? Not far.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Good addition to this conversation. Watch what kind brainwash western people go through these days https://youtu.be/BHoBP0IhFdY

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          “bunch of Russians amassing on the Ukrainian border”

          Only in US media imagination. You see, this is disinformation operation and you bought into it.

          Read some Ukrainian publications and you might get it eventually

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @Slavuta: you need to have your Commissar provide you with more up to date information. The Chinese government has invested over $50 billion in Canadian natural resources, primarily petroleum. And why is the Ukrainian government is requesting emergency assistance from the ‘West’? Putin will never forgive or forget the fall of the Soviet Union.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @Slavuta: Before posting you should first check the Party Line. Below is what Putin himself has said.
            Putin’s comments, released by state TV on Sunday, are likely to further fuel speculation about him planning to recreate the Soviet Union and of contemplating an attack on Ukraine.
            Putin, who served in the Soviet-era KGB, has previously called the collapse of the Soviet Union, which was ruled from Moscow, as the “greatest geopolitical catastrophe” of the 20th century, but his new comments show how he viewed it specifically as a setback for Russian power.
            “It was a disintegration of historical Russia under the name of the Soviet Union,” Putin said of the 1991 breakup, in comments aired on Sunday as part of a documentary film called “Russia. New History,” the RIA state news agency reported.
            “We turned into a completely different country. And what had been built up over 1,000 years was largely lost,” said Putin, saying 25 million Russian people in newly independent countries suddenly found themselves cut off from Russia, part of what he called “a major humanitarian tragedy.”
            Ukraine was one of 15 Soviet republics and Putin used a lengthy article published on the Kremlin website this year to set out why he believed Russia’s southern neighbour and its people were an integral part of Russian history and culture.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            @Arthur Dailey

            BTW, during that transitional period when local presidents were now meeting with foreign attaches. etc, Gorbachev said – “what are they doing? We’re going to lose the country. Who are we to do this? (meaning Communists). We’re here what, 60-70 years, and we’re going to destroy 1000+ year old country?”

        • 0 avatar

          @Art _ Russia is the food exporter and Ukraina is the food importer. E.g. Russia exports grain China.

          Regarding USA it would be easier to move Taiwan with all it’s hard working population to US and give remaining island to China.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            In fact, Russia by far largest wheat exporter and has closed many wheat farms in US. Why? – Sanctions. Sanctions made Russia self sufficient. And in the West the rulers still don’t understand this.

    • 0 avatar
      Mustangfast

      You buy real assets that have value despite inflation…

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Mary Barra – Friend to the Poor

  • avatar
    stuki

    What could possibly be more American anno 2022, than mediocrities getting bonuses paid for with money stolen from others; in order to build substandard products noone is willing to pay full price for? I mean, this whole totalitarian dump, is little more than a gaggle of connected idiots living high off of forced mandates that their betters fork over more and more to them, these days.

    Competition? Gaining customers based on quality and price? Huh??? You know, we’re, like, Free Market! We have like Admam Smith ties! Buuuut, mommy, we’re like special snowflakes! We’re like, market failure. Gommiment must make someone pay! Cause we, like, inveeeeest and, like, uaaaah! stuff!

  • avatar
    Dartdude

    It just amazes me that the rich don’t understand how average Americans live their lives. Queen Mary us average people need high paying jobs to afford your over price vehicles. With high inflation and taxes how do you think we are going to afford your cars. Talk to the govt and tell them to live within their means. Thank God the newer cars last longer.

  • avatar
    Eaststand

    Nope, charging to 100% in 5 minutes will make people transition to electric cars, nothing else.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      I might be ok with 93% in 7 minutes. (Perhaps even less and more.)

      Supporting data:
      0. None of my three petroleum vehicles currently has a completely full tank of fuel.
      1. On my last single-day road trip (out and back), I needed to purchase fuel away from home, but I didn’t need a full tank to get back home.
      2. I am slow. I like to stop and look around once in a while, Ferris Bueller style.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      “Nope, charging to 100% in 5 minutes will make people transition to electric cars, nothing else.”

      It depends on the individual and what their situation is. For me and many others that charge overnight, we don’t even have to go someplace and lose 10 to 15 minutes (additional time for getting in and out and sometimes going out of your way). We have a full fuel tank every morning and don’t have to deal with the hassle of gas stations. Sure, that’s not the situation for everyone.

      There’s no hard data or research that I’ve seen that correlates specific charge rates/times to EV acceptance. Maybe they’re out there. I haven’t looked. My neighbor just had a baby boy and he’ll be getting his driver’s license in 2037. What’s his tolerance for charging rates going to be? EVs have gaming systems and movies in them. You can even use the steering wheel as a control in the game. Will the next generation be happy to have that gaming/movie time?

      Charging times will be going down even further. You can put about 60 miles into Hyundai in 5 minutes now. As batteries get denser, EVs will get lighter and more efficient. As that happens, smaller batteries and higher miles/kWh numbers will cause the miles/minute rate to go up. Other tricks some of us are using with custom vehicles and devices to speed up charging is to electrically divide the battery pack for charging and use multiple chargers in parallel. In fact, Teslas MegaChargers for the Semi are using the same trick.

      Argonne National Laboratory is doing basic research and has made discoveries related to speeding up charge rates. Battery durability is improving as well and will be able to withstand quick charges without the ill effects we’ve seen in the past.

      As time goes on and EV numbers increase, there will be a reduction in the number of gas stations. Sure, it might take 5 minutes once you get there, but how much time will it take to find one? How far will you have to drive? How frequent will their deliveries be and how often will they be out. I think about 2030, we’ll see that in major metropolitan areas.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    Well, the GSA fleet is supposed to be American made. The B&B would be going ants-in-their pants, foaming at the mouth berserk if the Federal Government bought Japanese or European EVs.

    The GSA fleet usually consists of some of biggest rolling turds you can drive. In the not so distant future the GSA fleet will mostly be EV GM or Ford rolling turds.

    Staying apolitical; from the President on down, everyone who gets driven will get driven in a vehicle that will be classified “law enforcement” or “security”. All of these vehicles will be ICE powered, that won’t change.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      “‘law enforcement’… will be ICE powered”

      I hope the interceptor/pursuit models have at least some batteries on board. (ICE alone can be relatively slow anymore. The quickest ICE-only vehicles come with a lot of attendant baggage – see Stellantis.)

      Hybrids could play a role here:
      https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-tax-credit-senate-vote-biden/

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        “‘law enforcement’… will be ICE powered”
        No it won’t. For one thing, we’re talking 2035. Not 2025. Technologcal progress isn’t going to magically freeze for the next 13 years.Even now I wonder how many Federal law enforcement vehicles would be fine with even 50 miles worth of range? Even transportation for the President. How often are they going to take him on a 2,000-mile road trip? What’s the furthest? The 70 miles between DC and Camp David?

        • 0 avatar
          dantes_inferno

          “No it won’t. For one thing, we’re talking 2035.”

          You put WAY too much faith in our gutless politicians in BOTH parties who lack the political will to build a sufficient charging infrastructure for EVs to approach anywhere near critical mass.
          These politicians will play both the EV and ICE industries to hedge their bets. Human nature at its “finest”.

          Not to throw cold water on your post or anything…

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Barra says more corporate welfare may help pad her annual bonus.

    “However the Build Back Better Act (H. R. 5376) seeks to nullify those limitations by ending the vehicle quotas and permitting government aid to go on almost indefinitely”

    Seriously though, this is because both gov’t and OEMs know the gun-to-the-head approach is going to devastate the auto industry. If you search the bill, the word “electric” is present 488 times, but the part about credits does not start until “PART 4 GREENING THE FLEET AND ALTERNATIVE VEHICLES” (413/488 times of “electric”).

    So no more than 50% of price, nice.

    “The amount determined under this subsection with respect to any new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle is the sum of the amounts determined under paragraphs (2) through (5) with respect to such vehicle (not to exceed 50 percent of the purchase price of such vehicle).”

    Looks like this is means tested, fortunately anyone with a pulse not in the top 1-3% is eligible:

    “(3) Threshold amount.–For purposes of paragraph (1), the
    term `threshold amount’ means–
    “(A) $800,000 in the case of a joint return or
    surviving spouse (half such amount for married filing
    separately),
    “(B) $600,000 in the case of a head of household,
    and
    “(C) $400,000 in any other case.”

  • avatar
    JD-Shifty

    “Yuan will be your world reserve currency.”-It will be yours long before that

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