By on August 23, 2021

Following the PSA-FCA merger that resulted in Stellantis, Dodge has been promising that it would reinvent muscle cars to become all-electric vehicles. This rattled many Mopar fans, with the hardest day being when the automaker teased what was undoubtedly an EV concept inspired by the original Dodge Charger in July. In an act of true sacrilege, it even carried the Fratzog logo worn by many Chrysler products from the era.

This week, Dodge CEO Tim Kuniskis provided a loose timeline for the company’s planned EV offensive and what we might expect. He also acknowledged that the company knows that some fans of the brand are filled to the brim with trepidation at the prospect of an electric muscle car.

“We hope that we draw a different type of consumer, and keep the consumer that we have today,” Kuniskis told Automotive News during a media preview for the Roadkill Nights Powered by Dodge event. “That’s very important to us, and that’s why we want to get our concept car out next year and explain to people exactly what we’re going to do. When things go into an electrified environment, we want to explain to people: Dodge [is] muscle car first. And, by the way, it happens to have electrification to make it better.”

But Dodge’s big-engine, internal-combustion sales are still pretty healthy. The Charger enjoyed a sales increase through the first half of 2021, with the same being true for the Challenger. It also routinely sells out of its limited-edition vehicles boasting the wildest, power-house motors available on the North American market. But Stellantis’ goals now also belong to Dodge and it wants widespread electrification, a decision helped by government-backed incentivizing.

That could be easier said than done, however. Kuniskis suggested that the heart of the muscle car market settles in between $40,000 to $50,000. Unfortunately, modern EVs retailing within that sweet spot are a bunch of modestly sized hatchbacks offering modest levels of performance or slightly larger vehicles offering more power and diminished range. For the money Kuniskis is suggesting, we’re envisioning the Dodge equivalent of Ford’s Mustang Mach-E when the company decides to go full electric.

Dodge’s CEO claims that the company knows what its customers want and will be “targeting exactly what we need to do.”

For now, that involves Dodge launching a plug-in hybrid model in 2022 and a electric-only muscle car by 2024. Though management said that there will be a compressive presentation on its overall strategy in the fourth quarter of 2021, likely including a concept vehicle presentation early in 2022. Insiders have told us that will probably be foreshadowing the 2024 Dodge Challenger eMuscle (which appears in the teasers but hasn’t been confirmed yet).

From AN:

Kuniskis shepherded Dodge’s image makeover from a budget-friendly brand of family haulers to an attitude-laden purveyor of muscle cars. Now he’s guiding it into an era of eco-friendly performance that he says will improve on what Dodge offers today.

This work is being done as Kuniskis makes a transition of his own working for Stellantis, which has given him the opportunity to hear from those with different perspectives.

Dodge’s importance to the merged company was evident during Stellantis’ EV Day in July, Kuniskis said, when it was one of six brands included. During that event, Kuniskis announced the electric muscle car and quipped that if a charger can make the Charger quicker, “we’re in.”

However electrified doesn’t necessarily mean battery only. Hybridization could offer the best of both worlds, with the outlet referencing discussions between David Kelleher, chairman of the Stellantis National Dealer Council, and Kuniskis from 2020. Here, it was decide that Dodge could avoid betraying its own identity “once it adds plug-ins to the mix.”

“We can be who we want to be, it’s just propelled differently,” Kelleher said. “Why can’t we have a Charger that is the fastest out there? What’s the difference? If it’s the roar of the engine, artificially put a roar in there. We can do that.”

While we’re all too aware that fake engine sounds have become an industry staple. The trend is one of many modern developments that alienate a subset of the driving public that’s seeking authentic experiences. This is particularly true amongst Mopar fans who could be defined as extremely traditional in their automotive desires.

I’m already getting a bad feeling here and Kuniskis has not assuaged my fears. When asked about output, Dodge’s CEO said output wasn’t all that important.

“You want a Hellcat with 1,200 hp? I can give it to you,” he said. “It won’t be any faster than the one you got, because all you’re going to do is spin the tires. I don’t know what the horsepower is going to be, but trust me, we won’t disappoint you.”

It’s certainly true that the ability to lay power down in a useable manner is vastly more important than numbers on the spec sheet. But muscle cars have historically been all about bragging rights, which is why they come in ridiculously vibrant color schemes, spend a lot of time at drag strips, and frequently wear their displacement like a badge of honor on the exterior. This is especially true of Dodge, which typically makes the biggest and most powerful cars  for the money (another muscle car trait) despite their not always being the fastest on a track.

Our guess is that the change in corporate  management sees Dodge as a particularly valuable brand for North America, with loads of heritage it can lean on, that it wants to adhere to its overarching electrification plans. It’s hard to imagine the brand building an EV that could keep pace with a middle-tier Charger/Challenger for less than $60,000 without making major sacrifices elsewhere (likely range). And it’s equally hard envisioning the typical Dodge customer wanting such a vehicle. That’s not to suggest an electric Mopar would be a failure, just that it might not have been a totally organic business decision.

“[Stellantis CEO] Carlos Tavares is a very, very smart guy, and he looked at it and he said this is very, very unexpected,” Kuniskis said regarding the planned EV rollout. “Let’s really shock the world. We’re serious about this. We’re so serious about it, we can take something that you don’t think can be electrified and we can keep it true to what it is, and keep it cool and keep growing this brand.”

[Images: Stellantis]

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114 Comments on “What Do You Think About Dodge Going Electric?...”


  • avatar
    cimarron typeR

    Stelantis needs the profit machine that v8s are nowadays. They can’t afford to take a loss e cars mean for a company with little growth prospects. Best bet is to hybridize all the Jeeps, pay the gas guzzler tax and keep making NA v8s so when most folks are dailying a hybrid /electric snooze fest they can drive a new V8 Chally on the weekends. Otherwise, buy and hold my friends , you V8 will be worth N/a 6mt 911 money.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      With ATP where it is, there isn’t a deep well of customers who are:

      A) Buying a weekend car
      B) Buying a Challenger as their weekend car

      Turbo V6 engines are easily making V8 (non-Hellcat) power now. Hell, naturally aspirated V6s are making 5.7L Hemi power now without a lot of engineering gymnastics to get there.

      The V8 in passenger cars for daily use is a dead concept walking. For the record, don’t own an electric anything, and had a snarling modified G8 GT until 2018. I get it, it isn’t just the acceleration but the scream of a roaring V8 which can be intoxicating – but 99.5% of American buyers just DGAF anymore.

      The handwriting is on the wall for the Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang as they are today.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      All the FCA profits are from Jeep. The PSA Group bought (not merged with) FCA for the Jeep, in the same way Chrysler bought AMC. For the Jeep and for the Jeep alone.

      • 0 avatar
        Flipper35

        Ram does well making money for them as well and Chrysler does well enough on the Pacifica platform.

        Then there is the rumored I6/I6 turbo that is supposed to be replacing the small hemi.

        So, no reason they can’t build electric on a new platform and keep selling the over the top V8 in limited production like they do the Ram and Ram Classic.

      • 0 avatar

        And Ram. But I have to imagine given the limited engineering dollars spent the profitability at Dodge probably isn’t bad either.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        Well, Jeep and RAM.

        In some ways, it’s almost like Jeep is a curse.

        Chrysler buys AMC mostly for Jeep, but got a lot of R&D for LH, LX, and updated Ram out of it.

        Fiat picks up Chrysler charred remains mostly for Jeep and BOF trucks.

        Now Stellanis picks up FCA. Of all the brands that existed going back before the Chrysler-AMC merger in the end it looks like Dodge and Jeep will survive. In an ironic twist, Renault has hooked up with Jeep again.

        Nash, Hudson, AMC, Eagle, Plymouth, and I just can’t see Chrysler surviving. The Pacifica goes to Dodge, the LX platform goes away – the end.

      • 0 avatar
        msquare

        Mostly Jeep, but not entirely Jeep.

        AMC and Renault had just opened a brand-new, state-of-the-art plant in Brampton, Ontario to build the Premier. Not only did Chrysler pick that up, but the architecture for what would become two generations of LH cars. The LX is now being built there.

        Francois Castaing and his AMC engineering staff had used Renault money to develop the XJ Cherokee and the YJ Wrangler, and the Grand Cherokee was in the pipeline. Design elements from those models found their way into the next generation Ram pickup.

        A very strong argument could be made that Chrysler didn’t take over AMC, but vice-versa.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Q: “What Do You Think About Dodge Going Electric?”

    A: I think they should keep paying the CAFE fines.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I’m not sure Cialis cares about Dodge/Chrysler, I think they’re attitude is we will continue FCA’s plan for them but if it doesn’t work out they will retire the marques.

    • 0 avatar
      Varezhka

      Yup, given how much they’re charging for the Hellcat, I’m sure they can pay the CAFE fine for each of the Charger/Challengers and still make better profit than a BEV anything. Plus, they pretty much have that niche to themselves now.

      Stellantis (save Jeep) is a collection of very region specific brands with limited global presence. There isn’t much need for whatever that happen for Peugeot/Citroen/Opel (EMEA) to impact product development for Dodge/Chrysler/RAM (Americas).

  • avatar
    ajla

    I have nothing per se against an EV anything.

    This will have to thread an interesting needle though.

    However, *completely* fake engine noises is so lame it makes my eyes roll out of my head. AMG and SRT might “tune” an ICE exhaust the way you tune an electric guitar but making an EV sound like an ICE is like watching Van Halen on YouTube and saying you played Panama.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    I don’t think about it

  • avatar

    I dunno, man– I am one of the biggest EV nerds I know, and even *I* think an electric Challenger is going to be a tough sell. Get me an electric Neon– that, at least, sounds fun.

  • avatar
    jmo

    Hum… a Charger SRT Hellcat does 0-60 in 3.9 and the 1/4 in 11.8 and is $59k. A Model 3 Performance is 0-60 in 3 even and the 1/4 in 11.5 and is $56,990. Kinda takes the thunder out of the non-electric muscle car concept.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      Then go buy an AWD Tesla.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Take a look at the sales charts – that’s exactly what a lot of folks are doing.

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          I have doubts that Challenger or Charger buyers are switching to Teslas as most of their conquests seem to be from the premium brands.

          However, both Dodge and GM have said they’ll be making a BEV muscle car and Ford has been showing off a lot of BEV normal Mustangs at NHRA events so if a market for such a thing exists there will be options for buyers very soon.

        • 0 avatar
          Mike A

          Tesla sales for the performance are not that high

          • 0 avatar
            Lorenzo

            That’s likely true, the sales are for the snobobile effect – it’s a luxury car. But the buyers will talk about the quick acceleration as the “reason” they bought a Tesla.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Even the “long range” Model 3 is damn quick.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            My buddy just bought a Model 3 Performance because the crazy acceleration numbers seduced him. (He came from a Jag XF.) Now he’s complaining that the Tesla’s throttle is too hair-trigger. Honestly after driving the car I kind of agree – hit a bump on a city street and find yourself going 10 mph faster. I’ve driven Long Range Model 3s before and found them plenty fast and easier to modulate.

            (On the other hand, his June 2021-build car seemed to me to be much better finished than earlier Model 3s.)

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @dal20402: Did you drive it in chill mode? I was hoping that mode would tame it a bit. I’d want to be able to tone down the power in a daily driver. Too much work otherwise.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I didn’t drive it in chill mode. Should have tried that.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @dal20402: Good information though. While I love performance, from past experience, it can be a pain on a daily driver. Especially in traffic I want to be able to dial the performance way down. One of the best parts about the Leaf is to be able to dial it down to what I called novocaine mode in heavy traffic. It made stop-and-go traffic much more tolerable.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “ Hum… a Charger SRT Hellcat does 0-60 in 3.9 and the 1/4 in 11.8 and is $59k. A Model 3 Performance is 0-60 in 3 even and the 1/4 in 11.5 and is $56,990. Kinda takes the thunder out of the non-electric muscle car concept.”

      Doesnt take the thunder out at all. People that want a Tesla are not car people. All they want is an appliance. The sound of a vacuum cleaner revenge up makes them excited.

      It’s not about the speed. There are gasoline cars that are far less powerful that are infinitely more fun then a Tesla. The Fiesta ST comes to mind.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        @EBflex:

        “The sound of a vacuum cleaner revenge up makes them excited.”

        And crapping on everyone else’s car buying choices gets you excited. What, Tesla buyers are the only people who want an “appliance”? Take a look at the sales charts, and tell how many people bought RAV4s, CR-Vs, Rogues, and Camrys. Be sure to crap on all of them too.

        Run along, troll.

    • 0 avatar
      Imagefont

      Ive driven a few 5.7 Challengers as rentals and I just don’t find them engaging. Summoning power from the engine and transmission seems to take too much time. I’m spoiled for smaller cars with quicker reflexes. I’d rather have a responsive car than a powerful car. Powerful does not equal responsive or fun to drive. Power alone is not very interesting, to me anyway. But then I own a Miata.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “Summoning power from the engine and transmission seems to take too much time.”

        I find this highly unlikely. The 5.7 loves to rev and the ZF 8-speed is the best traditional transmission sold today. Very fast and direct shifts. Did you drive a 6-speed Challenger?

        • 0 avatar
          Imagefont

          I drove an automatic, Avis rental. Poor visibility too. I mean it’s fast certainly, but the transmission like most today has too many gears and is always trying to drop the revs. Jump on the gas and it does a reasonable job, but it’s not designed to crack off a really fast shift. Let off the gas and it goes right back to high gear, dropping revs. It’s a bog, heavy, wallowing beast and it takes it’s sweet time. The 6mt might be more interesting since you cam control that behavior, since only you and not the transmission know what you’ll be doing in the next few seconds. I just sort of shrugged. I didn’t want one and I was happy to turn it in. It’s sort of a bloated 5/4ths version of a challenger with a high belt line and a lousy view out. I felt pretty much the same way about a 5.0 mustang I rented. And wow, talk about horrible packaging and wasted space and a weird pointlessly stupid trunk opening. My ‘67 Barracuda had much better packaging and that’s just sad. To each their own I guess.

    • 0 avatar
      stuki

      “Kinda takes the thunder out of the non-electric muscle car concept.”

      For all those whose sole use for a car is to drive 1/4 mile as fast as possible… Or, more realistically, those whose main concern when buying a new car, is winning specsheet races while holed up waiting for their car to recharge so they can drive another few miles.

      OTOH, the model’s name is Charger…….

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        “Or, more realistically, those whose main concern when buying a new car, is winning specsheet”

        Muscle cars, in most cases, are bought because of image. Sure, they aren’t buying a Demon and even if they do, they won’t race it. It’s about image. If that image becomes that of a car that always loses at the track on youtube videos, that’s a problem. Dodge is trying to sell an image of the “Brotherhood of Muscle” but it’s turning into the Brotherhood of Losers. People see youtube videos of Plaids slamming on the brakes halfway down the track and still destroying a challenger at the track – with the sound of people laughing at the Challenger in the background. Hard to sell that “muscle” tagline. Dragtimes video from 08/22 shows Brooks giving a Demon a few car lengths of a head start, then blows its doors off. The Demon has become something to laugh at on youtube. Not good for the reputation.

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          “If that image becomes that of a car that always loses at the track on youtube videos, that’s a problem.”

          I’m not sure why you think an 800hp car last offered in 2018 directly competes with a 2021 electric car with over 1000hp costing $130K, but there are plenty of videos on Youtube of Dodges not losing:

          392 Charger and Challenger beating a Stinger GT:
          youtube.com/watch?v=dN0EJP2SRKM

          Hellcat Challenger beating a C63S:
          youtube.com/watch?v=N7KqS8zcSsU

          Hellcat Redeye beating ZL1 (5 minute mark):
          youtube.com/watch?v=7ZiHjo9sGbk

          Charger Hellcat beating a CTS-V:
          youtube.com/watch?v=GyQ8hfzCUkE

          If your philosophy is “Plaid or GTFO” then the “Brotherhood of Losers” is a lot bigger than just Dodges.

        • 0 avatar
          stuki

          The people I know who are into muscle cars, bought/buy/restore them in order to rumble down empty highways blasting Sweet Emotion. None gives a toot whether some yahoo shot out of a catapult with a firing range of 2000 feet, is somehow faster than them for that distance.

          Some may occasionally take them to a strip, but not with any serious intent. Racing, in any form, in modern street legal cars, is just silliness. NONE of them are built to withstand it, and 2/3rds of their cost are towards equipment which straight up slow you down, and makes life awkward, down a strip and around a circuit.

          To the extent 1/4 mile times matter at all, it’s mainly to compared with legendary models from the “Sweet Emotion” era. Not with railguns, superman rides at some amusement park, nor other toys.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @stuki: One of my hobbies is working on vintage cars from the 60’s, so I know that crowd well. While there are the people that like the cruising, there are some that definitely get obsessed with trying to make the cars faster. A lot of them. I actually use the performance numbers on EVs to talk them down to earth. Trying to get that kind of acceleration out of a vintage car ruins the driveability. Better to leave it the way it is and if you want the fast acceleration, pick up a performance EV for a daily driver.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Well, as someone who hates seeing brands die, I think Dodge has two possible ways to survive:

    1) EV brand
    2) Hopped-up crossover brand (I’ve floated this idea before)

    (Or maybe a mix of both)

  • avatar
    Johnster

    Yeah, I don’t really think about EVs. They’re not ready for prime time. They don’t offer a sufficient driving range and they take too long to recharge to be considered as a viable replacement for a conventional ICE automobile or truck. If I had more money, I could see one as a commuter vehicle for commuting to work and driving around town on ordinary errands, but not as a replacement for an ICE vehicle. That said, I do think there is lots of room for growth among hybrid autos. I thought the idea of both electric and ICE powertrains being used in a single vehicle, such as the original Chevy Volt and Opel/Vauxhall/Holden Ampera was sound and worthy of further development, but GM bungled it as usual.

    • 0 avatar
      Kendahl

      Range is still an issue for BEVs. They top out at 300 miles useful range while my personal Infiniti G37S, Ford Focus SE and Toyota Sienna all are good for more than 400. Recharging time isn’t a big issue. Most of the time, you recharge at home so you always start out topped off. It does become something of an issue on road trips. However, according to Tesla owners, the trick is to operate in the range 10% to 60% where the battery takes a charge quickly. You’ll stop more often but for shorter periods so that total time on the charger is less.

      This works for Teslas. I have reservations about the rest. Having done their R&D homework, when everyone thought they would fail, Tesla is in first place among BEV manufacturers while their competitors are tied for last.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      “They’re not ready for prime time. They don’t offer a sufficient driving range and they take too long to recharge to be considered as a viable replacement for a conventional ICE automobile or truck. If I had more money, I could see one as a commuter vehicle for commuting to work and driving around town on ordinary errands, but not as a replacement for an ICE vehicle.”

      Sorry, that’s a quote from 2011, not 2021.

      • 0 avatar
        Steve Biro

        “Sorry, that’s a quote from 2011, not 2021.”

        Not really. It depends on the way one will use the vehicle. EVs work for many more people now than they did even five years ago. But they’re still not quite there for many others. Like it or not, it’s true.

        Hybrids, on the other hand, can solve both the range anxiety problem and the need for charging. Moreover, there are many more attractrive hybrids available today than five years ago. I think a lot of people are likely to go this route as a bridge to whenever EVs work for virtually everyone.

        Some people want everyone to switch to EVs right away. And a lot of those same people lump those who opt for hybrids in the same group that buys Challenger Hellcats. That’s just too bad for them. Because until EVs work for me… they don’t. And unless they are prepared to give me an EV for free, I’m not buying. At least not yet.

      • 0 avatar
        Flipper35

        I could not have made my last trip of 4400 miles in a reasonable time with an electric car, especially since half of those miles had a 3500# U-Haul trailer on the back traversing mountains. Though I would have gained a lot of charge coming down.

        For a second car they would be fine for us, but the Model 3 has an interior I could not live with and they aren’t the most handsome on the outside. Most of the others are just an appliance so we stick with what we have.

        As long as I could stay charged at home I would be OK. I don’t want to sit for an hour waiting to get to 100% charge. When they specify charge times they need to either give the 80% charge range or be more clear on the 100% charge time.

        OK, all that said, I have been looking for an excuse to buy a full EV since the Tesla Roadster came out. They just don’t fit us currently for what we are willing to pay. If someone gave me a Model S I would be OK. They are sharp looking and the interior isn’t as bad. They are still full of gimmicks for gimmicks sake, but that would be OK for the most part.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    This is nothing more than pandering to try and look good. It’s similar to when automakers began using the term “crossover” for SUVs because SUVs were killing polar bears. Nothing more than pandering. Every reasonable person knows that EVs are laughably bad and that they are just as bad if not worse for the environment than a gasoline powered vehicle.

    Dodge should focus on what is making them money and not making soulless appliances. People don’t want EVs. They want fun, gasoline powered vehicles that put a smile on your face

    • 0 avatar
      Johnster

      Or they want reasonably sensible, reliable, affordable vehicles that are comparatively cheap to own and operate and we’ve got the Asian auto manufacturers to provide those.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      “People don’t want EVs.”

      No, you don’t want an EV.

      There, fixed it for you.

      • 0 avatar
        jack4x

        Far be it from me to defend EB here, but 98% of people who bought a new car last year (and the year before, and the year before that, etc) didn’t want an EV.

        Might that change when things like the Lightning are available? Sure. But it’s hardly a guarantee. The path from 2% market share to 50% market share (let alone 100% as some advocate) is hardly clear to me outside of draconian bans.

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          The F150 Mach E doesn’t bring anything to the table and still suffers from the major drawbacks that all EVs have. Short-range, long recharge times and a poor charging network.

          The F150 Mach E is a very poor effort.

          the reality is that EVs are very harmful to the Earth and have major shortcomings. We’ve learned over 100 years ago that EVs suck. We learned in the 90’s that EVs suck. Nothing has changed.

          • 0 avatar
            Flipper35

            For most people the range is more than sufficient. The charge times are not relevant if you charge at home (except maybe parts of CA) and if you need to charge while not on a road trip you can get enough charge for decent range in twice what it takes to fill a minivan.

            For urban use they work just fine in day to day use.

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    The Charger and Challenger platforms were paid for years ago. Chrysler (Stellantis) can crank them out for little more than the incremental cost of one more vehicle. No reason not to continue doing so as long as there is a market for them.

    What Stellantis could do is, in parallel, develop hybrid, PHEV and BEV alternatives. The guys who absolutely must have a Hemi will continue to buy Chargers and Challengers. Guys who just want to go fast will compare the new technology to the old and gravitate toward the new.

  • avatar
    dwford

    The bigger problem Dodge has is a total irrelevancy to the larger auto market. Yes they’ve got the muscle car buyer down cold, but what about everyone else, you know the more likely PHEV and BEV buyers? They wrote off Dodge a long time ago. So Dodge can go all in on modern hybrids and EVs, but it is essentially starting over looking for conquest buyers in a totally different market than the last time Dodge fielded mainstream models.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      They went from selling the Aries and Dynasty to SRT Hellcats in about one (human) generation so I’m sure they can adapt if the will is actually there.

      I personally think an electric muscle car is something of a dead end but we’ll see what they come up with.

      • 0 avatar
        Kendahl

        There already exists a luxury BEV muscle car. It’s called a Tesla Model S Plaid.

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          I wouldn’t consider a $100K+ Model S to be a “muscle car” any more than I’d consider the S63 AMG or DB11 or Quattroporte Trofeo to be muscle cars. YMMV.

          • 0 avatar
            Kendahl

            I guess it depends on what you consider a muscle car. If you restrict that to medium and full size Detroit iron with an oversize engine, I agree that a Model S wouldn’t qualify. I’m more catholic in my specifications. For example, I would call the Mercedes 300 SEL 6.3 from circa 1970 a German muscle car.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      I agree this is the problem for Dodge. The last Dodge I considered was a Dart. After test-driving two version of it, I passed.

      I don’t think Stellantis will pour the resources into Dodge that Dodge needs.

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        Stellantis doesn’t need to throw money into Dodge, they can probably do a better job at designing a compact car than the Fiat engineers who put the running gear into the Dart. A modified Peugeot or Citroen platform would work better than the 500L platform and drivetrain the Fiat engineers kept recycling.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    Stellantis is a global company. What works in Europe usually doesn’t work in the North American market. I can see the day when large European cities have ev-only or pay big bucks zones. Big hint, the metro (Paris, not D.C.), the s-Bahn, and the tube work pretty well. We have a parking garages and surface lots where I work. There are guys who brag that their truck is too big to fit in the parking garages. Their money, their choice, and really none of my business. Plug-in EV’s make perfect sense as commuter beasties. Or for businesses whose employees never leave town. TCO will be eye-opening for business owners. Fleet managers sweat TCO. When I do long-distance driving my criteria for a gas station is: can I see it from the interstate? EV owners have to look at app to find a charging station. After 300 miles I’m ready to stop. Who will come up with an EV rescue charge solution? Like running out of gas, give you enough juice to get to a charging station. Can an EV get juice from an ICE or another EV? Brave new world ahead.

  • avatar
    mcs

    Dodge needs a halo car and they don’t really have one now. You can’t call yourself a muscle car company when the fastest thing you have is a joke that gets laughed at in drag races. Plenty of Demons getting destroyed in youtube videos these days. Yeah, maybe everyone doesn’t buy the Demon or whatever the top of the line is these days, but they don’t want something from a loser brand. Dodge calling itself a muscle car brand at this point is like an accountant buying a scooter and sewing a 1% patch on his cut. Yeah, you’r chally or charger makes a lot of noise, but we all know it would get wiped out at a drag strip. All show and no go.

    Just watch all of the youtube videos out there and you’ll see what has them worried.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “a joke that gets laughed at in drag races.”

      I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a car get laughed at at any drag strip. Most people are happy someone is engaging in the hobby whether they have a Tesla or a Hellcat or a Monte Carlo LTZ. And there will always be someone around with professionally-built insanity that is faster than anyone.

      Nice job acting like a d*ck though.

    • 0 avatar
      jack4x

      I’ll race you from Boston to LA in my Dodge, you can take any EV you want.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “I’ll race you from Boston to LA in my Dodge, you can take any EV you want.”

        In a 2021 Charger with the 5.7L HEMI, the highway mileage is 25 MPG (30+ is easily obtainable though). It also has a 18.5 gallon tank.

        18.5 x 25 = 462.5 miles per tank = 7 fillups from Boston to LA
        18.5 x 30 = 555 miles per tank = 6 fillups from Boston to LA
        18.5 x 35 = 647.5 miles per tank = 5 fillups from Boston to LA

        The drive time is 45 hours. The average time at a gas station = 20 minutes

        7 fillups = 1 hour and 40 minutes + 44 hours is 45 hours and 40 min.
        6 fillups = 1 hour and 20 minutes + 44 hours is 45 hours and 20 min.
        5 fillups = 1 hour + 44 hours is 45 hours.

        The longest range Tesla is the Model S Long Range Plus. Range is 412 miles. According to A Better Route Planner, The Tesla will take over 45 hours of driving and over 6 hours of charging.

        According to Tesla, the trip will take you over 56 hours.

        So the Tesla is an additional 6 to 11 hours of being on the road just because you chose a frankly awful car.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          How often do you drive 3000 miles at a shot?

          I think I’ve done that once in my life.

          • 0 avatar
            jack4x

            @dal,

            I don’t of course, but I also don’t shop based on who gets “embarrassed” in drag strip Youtube videos vs cars costing double their price either.

            Both are ridiculous, hence my ridiculous comment.

        • 0 avatar
          deanst

          If you think an hour has 100 minutes, how can I trust the rest of your analysis? Check your math!

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ If you think an hour has 100 minutes, how can I trust the rest of your analysis? Check your math!”

            Yep honest mistake after being awake for 20 hours.

            7 fillups = 2 hours and 20 minutes + 44 hours is 46 hours and 20 minutes.
            6 fillups = 2 hours + 44 hours is 46 hours.
            5 fillups = 1 hour and 40 minutes + 44 hours is 45 hours and 40 minutes.

            The point still stands. You can have the fastest EV and it still would lose a race to even the most bland and boring ICE car. EVs are not ready for prime time.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      MCS gets off on the sound of a vacuum whirring. Thats why he likes EVs. ad good for you because someone has to buy this electric junk.

      But to say Dodge doesn’t have a halo car is laughable. Only company to make a car do a wheelie from the factory and very high demand. Yeah total failure.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        “on the sound of a vacuum whirring. Thats why he likes EVs. ad good for you because someone has to buy this electric junk.”

        “Yeah, you’r chally or charger makes a lot of noise, but we all know it would get wiped out at a drag strip. All show and no go. ”

        You two certainly deserve each other.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        “Only company to make a car do a wheelie from the factory and very high demand.”

        Tesla is outselling Dodge at this point.

        Watching a Plaid destroy a Demon 3x in a row on the track is pretty impressive. The Demon makes a lot of smoke and noise, but gets consistently outrun by 0.9 seconds – an eternity in quarter-miling. Of course, the Plaid is much more expensive and has 25% more power, so it is arguably a different class of vehicle.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          Yeah, it was fun watching them dice it up with the Ferraris and the C8 at Lemans this year too. Oh wait…

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          “Tesla is outselling Dodge at this point.”

          That has no bearing on my statement that you quoted. Try and stay on point.

          But for fun, please show me the sales numbers of Tesla in North America through July 2021. The Challenger is up 37%, the Charger is up 40% and the Durango is up 30%. ANd oddly enough, Dodge makes money on the vehicles they sell….Tesla does not.

          As for the bland…I mean plaid, congrats to Tesla and the snakeoil sales man for making a car that can travel 1320 feet. What an accomplishment for electric cars.

  • avatar
    notanotherteslafanboi

    Did you just pretend that Teslas don’t exist when you wrote this article? The Standard Range 3 can hit 60 in 5.3 seconds and starts around ~$40k. That’s pretty darn close to a Challenger R/T.

  • avatar
    Car61

    Not interested in electric cars until batteries can be ethically sourced. No blood for lithium! No child labor!

    I demand lithium to be mined in environmentally protective and carbon neutral ways!

  • avatar

    Interesting, 36 comments about brand nobody cares about on this site. Why is that? V12 and V8 and V6 and I4 all are going the way if dodo very soon and no amount of fans can stop that. Who cares about sound? The last thing I want is my car sounding like angry tractor.

  • avatar
    JaySeis

    I’ve an 80 year-old 9N Ford tractor that will outlive most any present modern-day ICE. And I can buy any part off the internets. It’s slow, somewhat inefficient, dependable.. basically industrial art. But people need transportation and SA is producing artsy vehicles defined by the past. Future weekends will be filled with blaring V-8s headed to watering toughs like packs of leather bound Harley riders.

  • avatar
    Shockrave Flash Has Crashed

    Park it outside for the first two years.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    A) “We hope that we draw a different type of consumer, and keep the consumer that we have today”

    The ability to make statements like this with a straight face is one of the reasons that Tim Kuniskis has his job (and you don’t).

    B) “Carlos Tavares is a very, very smart guy”

    Statements like this indicate Tim Kuniskis’ desire to keep his job [but based solely on the tone of that quote, my gut says he won’t be there much longer].

    Latest metrics to Track TTAC’s Decline (TTTACD):
    I. The percentage of Comments posted by Staff other than the Author
    II. The percentage of Staff Comments which begin with “I dunno, man”

  • avatar

    Challenger Scat Pack owner chiming in here. I’m excited for the plug-in and full BEV Dodge brand vehicles. I’ve always been a Dodge brand person for as long as I can remember. While I’ve owned other brands, Dodge has always been my preference. Knowing that Dodge has a full BEV coming in 2024 has changed my plans to lease an ID.4 in 2024.

    Keep in mind that Dodge has the youngest buyers in the industry combined with a fierce brand loyalty. Those are two ingredients that are ripe for Dodge to bring a full-on BEV to market that can only be a Dodge.

    Don’t be a Luddite, Matt.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “I’m excited for the plug-in and full BEV Dodge brand vehicles.”

      This quote isn’t exactly confidence inspiring:
      “What’s the difference? If it’s the roar of the engine, artificially put a roar in there. We can do that.”

      • 0 avatar
        beachy

        I am old enough to know what muscle cars really sound like when they are tuned correctly. I live near a street where the new generation of ‘exhaust note’ cars regularly make loud, ridiculous farting noises while trying to impress the locals. Maybe they should use fake noises for them too, save us all embarrassment.

    • 0 avatar
      ttacgreg

      I’m not up on all things Dodge. Seriously they use the word “scat” in a product name? That might be telling.

  • avatar
    Superdessucke

    I think in a lot of ways it’s much ado about nothing. There are very few enthusiast cars left where a gas engine is part of the enjoyment, and I don’t think our grid is going to be able to handle mass electrification, which will put the brakes on it naturally. I also wonder how clean mass electrification of the vehicle fleet actually would be when you consider the fossil fuels we have to use to create electricity.

    Beyond that, I generally do not have a problem with an electric vehicle. I’d buy one if it was practical for me to do so.

  • avatar
    MitchConner

    Don’t have a problem with it. The brand can continue to sell its current, successful lineup while gradually adding electrics in over time. If the current Challengers and Chargers end production with only electrics to take their place — that’s a huge risk that could blow up in Stellantis’ face.

    Performance buyers might be vocal about their preferences — but in the end pure performance wins them over — and the capabilities of electric are superior to internal combustion engines. When EPA regulations turfed the performance engines of 50 years ago — many said high performance engines would never return again. It took a while — but the ones out there today are superior in every way, shape, and form — and surrounded by vehicles the old ones can’t hold a candle to in terms of braking, handling, efficiency, comfort, and features.

    A dual motor, all wheel drive, widebody Challenger and Charger on a new platform with tremendous output is perfectly fine and fitting for the Dodge brand. The only issue, that will one day be solved, concerns sound. If the manufacturers can’t come up with a way to bring sound into the mix — an aftermarket supplier will.

    Just hoping whatever products come out have really cool designs that look as good as the current products.

  • avatar
    cimarron typeR

    If they really want to make money on an electric car, make one that does everything a Camry or Accord does , for the same price, with the same range. Thats why in 2021 electric cars aren’t ready for prime time unless you live in a very large coastal city. For the rest of us I’ll happily live in 2011.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      You forgot one – it has to be refueled in the same amount of time as a Camry or Accord – about 5 minutes.

      Of course, none of those things are possible. Battery technology uses exotic materials that are expensive and in short supply. There’s no way to build them as cheaply.

      The fueling problem will never go away – the national grid won’t be able to accommodate millions of EVs, even if there were some way to quick-charge batteries. Some states like California can’t accommodate more EVs now, since renewable energy isn’t as reliable as the fossil fuel power plants that have been shut down.

  • avatar
    Sigivald

    Yeah, and … hybrids.

    A plug-in hybrid is probably a better fit for a LOT of people than a pure EV.

    You get range, and you can get a nice torque/speed boost if it’s designed for it, and you can also play EV on your short commute.

    EV Purism is a nice fantasy for carmakers, but hybrids seem like the future.

    (I do not want an EV XC70; I’d buy a hybrid as powerful as my T6 quite happily, and bask in decent fuel economy AND zippiness, while still having the ability to do long road trips without range or charge time issues.)

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      The problem with plug-ins is that the vast majority of the time you’re dragging around a quarter-ton or more of ICE powertrain and fuel system, and paying to maintain it, for no reason. The PHEV makes a lot of sense for people who drive >300-mile distances often, but that’s not that many people.

  • avatar
    JaySeis

    I commute 90 miles a day in our Mach E. Charge at home drive, charge at home drive. Charge at home, drive.. works great. $.0634/KWH. Save ~$16 per day in gas. Pay about $1.63 a day in electricity. Save about $3,000 in gas annually. No plugs, coil packs, fuel filters, air filters, oil filters & 5K services (about 5 a year) that wasted a good half day (each) of my time. Appliance? Absolutely, cold beverages upfront. I drive my cars around 100K so saving maybe $30,000 in 4.5 years is realistic. A money saving appliance? This isn’t higher math. It’s consumer math. I pass SA fare everyday. I do not care if they waste their hard earned $$ to sound good.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      What made you go Mach-E over a Tesla? A transaxle breaking in only nine years is kinda pathetic so unless you put way too many miles on it or hooned it, why go back to the company who failed you? (NOTE: You sound like you do a lot of highway miles, this is even less of a reason for a transaxle to fail).

  • avatar
    BSttac

    As a current Challenger Scat Pack owner I have zero interest in an AWD “muscle car” let alone an EV silent one. Misses the whole point in my opinion. Just get a Model S and put a body kit on it or something. Figured the French would ruin Dodge

  • avatar
    JRED

    Dodge/Chrysler/Stellantis build quality + lots of Lithium batteries = (in Beavis’s voice) FIRE FIRE FIRE

  • avatar
    tankinbeans

    I don’t particularly think much about Dodge going electric, nor do I think about Dodge at all really.

    If I’m completely honest, I’m kind of getting interested in a plug-in hybrid of some sort. Reading that article about the RAV4 Prime from a couple months ago had me intrigued. While I don’t particularly like the RAV4 generally, 42 miles of electric only range covers most of my daily driving needs and then the regular hybrid gets decent mileage. If in their partnership Toyota license the technology to Mazda, and Mazda drops it into something I like, I’d strongly consider it.

    I live in Minnesota where they’re aren’t really many interesting roads to drive. I appreciate cars, though I don’t pretend to above average driving skill, and consider myself something of an enthusiast. Most of my driving is in and around my neighboring suburbs with regular jaunts on the freeway, making a monthly 180 mile round trip to visit my brother, nieces and nephew. A plug in hybrid would be more than sufficient for me, if it drove nicely.

    I currently have a Mazda3 Turbo and dig the acceleration, more than that enough for me, with a fun sound to boot.

  • avatar
    JLGOLDEN

    Going full EV, relying on a the tether pf a power cord, is a bit drastic. I’d rather see some design and engineering wizardry that amplify the excitement and capability of a traditional HYBRID powertrain. This route would seem to alienate fewer buyers if/when the EV fantasy starts to fade.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      Uh, you do know that you aren’t actually tethered. I sure that’s not what you meant. I’ve had EVs for 7 years now and it hasn’t been a problem plugging in.

      Don’t be so sure you’re going to be able to count on finding a gas pump whenever you want in the future. Times they are a changing and pumps will start going away in some locations. Range anxiety will become more and more of an issue for ICE vehicles. You never know when the pump that was there last week will be disconnected this week:

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/17/end-american-gas-station-ban

      https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/352884-gas-stations-will-disappear-sooner-than-you-think

      https://www.coltura.org/gas-stations

  • avatar
    markdis

    all cars will go electric soon or later.

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