By on August 5, 2021

us-capitol, public domain

The U.S. Senate is currently considering a $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill that’s primarily targeting the ailing highway system, with tens of billions left over to spend on advancing the nation’s EV charging infrastructure and incorporating more eco-friendly modes of public transportation. But there’s also some really kooky shit that you need to be made aware of before this passes into law.

Along with new regulations that would mandate the inclusion of collision detection systems and automatic emergency braking, where the car calls your bluff and applies the wheel-stoppers independently of your actions, provisions have been made that would also require some kind of in-car breathalyzer. The stated aim is to reduce incidents of drunk driving. However, the proposed system may also include driver-monitoring cameras, totally undermining any nobility the cause might otherwise have had.

Complaining about regulatory overreach is kind of my beat and the last few years have kept me truly busy. But this is on a whole other level as the nanny state runs amok — and we’re just getting started.

Section 13002 of the bill includes a “per-mile user fee pilot” designed to help offset the highway infrastructure money lost via fuel taxes as vehicles become more efficient and/or electrified. Unfortunately the program aims to use connected OBD-II devices, OEM-collected telematic data, smartphone app, and information from insurance companies to effectively allow the government to track your whereabouts 24/7 and set up a payment plan using information you didn’t necessarily give up willingly. Some of those systems could also be leveraged to assist in some of the other proposals that have been tucked away in the bill, including the aforementioned inebriation issue.

While incidents of drunk driving have come down over the decades, it remains a legitimate problem. We also saw 2020 deliver some of the worst crash rates in U.S. history despite people undoubtedly driving less and the previous downward trends. Sadly, the government solution seem to be based around inconveniencing regular people while simultaneously violating their right to privacy.

The 2,700-page document suggests installing automated traffic enforcement hubs, networked with speed and stoplight cameras (similar to what currently exists in China) and requiring automakers to install breathalyzers (or their equivalent) inside of vehicles that must be used before an automobile can even be started. This is a popular tactic among the court system as a way to ensure DUI recipients aren’t setting off three sheets to the wind. But one of the criticisms was that drivers could simply have someone else blow into the device. Well, the interested parties have accounted for that by requiring some kind of in-car monitoring system that not only makes sure you’re the one blowing but also has the ability to track face and eye movements in case you’re planning to get drunk while driving.

Considering automakers are already installing driver-facing cameras as part of their “advanced driving suites” or “driver assistance packages,” it’s not much of a stretch to see that hardware readapted for government use. The industry has even begun signaling that it’s happy to comply.

Carla Bailo, CEO of the Center for Automotive Research, recently told NBC News that the real issue won’t even be developing the hardware to do this. It already exists. The hard part will be making it cheap enough so that automakers can make sure all of it can go into literally every car produced.

“I don’t think that will be as easy as people might think,” Bailo said.

From NBC:

Nissan, for one, is working on a system that would use several different methods to see if an impaired driver is behind the wheel. Multiple sensors detect alcohol in cabin air. A camera atop the instrument cluster looks for facial cues signaling the driver is inebriated, and the vehicle itself looks for driving patterns suggesting an impaired driver.

But one concern is that the system could be triggered by drunk passengers, even with a sober, designated driver.

The federal government is funding research through the Driver Alcohol Detection System for Safety program. Several possible solutions are being studied, including one similar to a Breathalyzer. It would measure alcohol in the air around the driver, however, rather than requiring a motorist to blow into a tube every time they want start their vehicle. Like Nissan’s system, the challenge is to avoid false positives from an inebriated passenger.

A second system measures blood alcohol content in the body’s capillaries by shining a light on a driver’s finger. It could be built into a vehicle’s start button or steering wheel.

It’s all very futuristic until you remember that self-driving cars were supposed to have arrived a couple of years ago and the industry’s solution was to release a bunch of half-baked assistance features that mandate constant surveillance so the automaker can avoid any liabilities. That technology is now becoming the keystone for the proposed safety legislation that’s lurking in the Senate infrastructure bill.

Those in need of further proof that this is all sketchy as hell need look no further than its endorsement by the world’s largest automotive lobby. The Alliance for Automotive Innovation (AAI) has already expressed support for driver-monitoring cameras, which are completely in line with what the bill’s proposing.

“The auto industry has long been committed to supporting public and private efforts to address this tragic threat to road safety,” John Bozzella, CEO of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, stated. “This legislation furthers the possibility for advanced technologies to help address the risk of impaired driving.”

Additional requirements from the bill include automakers to include some sort of rear-seat monitoring that would alert operators when they’ve left a child in the rear seat (something many vehicles already have) and collision detection systems (ditto). The only real change is that they would be required hardware for all vehicles, rather than something that could be added as an option. Of course, the industry doesn’t care because their inclusion can now just be baked into the final asking price, rather than something you’ll have to be sold into at the dealership.

If you have a free weekend, I strongly urge you to read the bill. It’s not just the automotive content that veers into the weeds. The entire thing is loaded with those weird inclusions that have nothing to do with infrastructure but had no other way of being snuck into law. Though it could be too late by then because a vote on the bill is expected to take place at any moment.

[Image: Architect of the Capitol]

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92 Comments on “Senate Infrastructure Bill Seeks to Make Breathalyzers, Interior Cameras Mandatory...”


  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Crap ideas. Let’s hope this stuff doesn’t make it into the final bill.

    If Congress wants to do more about drunk driving, I’d suggest making block grants to be used for localities to hire DWI cops or some such thing.

    • 0 avatar
      Steve Biro

      Hoping this stuff doesn’t make it into the final bill won’t be good enough. This will have to be fought aggressively – and even then we might lose. It is time to literally “write your Congressman” and Senator.

      As for me, I find it completely unacceptable that I should pay upwards of $30K or more on a vehicle, only to have to prove my worthiness to drive it each time I open the door and to have that vehicle spy on me. Similarly, I resent being forced to beta test automakers’ highly flawed automatic braking systems. Exactly who is serving who here? If this makes it into law, I doubt I’ll ever buy a new vehicle again.

      I realize I am in the minority. Most Americans have become quite comfortable with the idea of being monitored 24/7. They are also addicted to convenience and don’t care one whit about driving. They are likely to embrace all of this with great enthusiasm.

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        Steve, I’m with you. I don’t want snooping equipment in my car that I have to pay for and don’t have final authority on data ownership. You are not in the minority on paper, but when it comes to fighting privacy loss, most just don’t bother. You can see it right here at TTAC – articles about privacy intrusion rarely rack up big comment numbers…Corporate America is well aware of this; hence the efforts being made to produce products that hoover up everything about you. they know the pushback is going to be minimal especially if they package it as giving you something for “free”…and if they can placate government busybodies at the same time, even better from their perspective.

        • 0 avatar
          Steve Biro

          Husky… the thing that kind of has me depressed is that any effort to fight this in the courts after it becomes law is likely to fail.

          The courts – all the way up to the Supreme Court – have consistently ruled that driving is not a right but a privilege extended by the state. They have also consistently ruled that one does not enjoy the same right to privacy and the same protection against search and seizure in one’s vehicle as one does in one’s home.

          The only argument that might – and I stress might – work is that being tested and monitored like this without evidence suggesting that it’s necessary violates the presumption of innocence. The law requires us to provide evidence without our consent – treating us like suspects before a crime is committed.

          If this provision make it into law, I suggest everyone expecting to buy a vehicle within the next few years make that purchase before this equipment is installed – and work very hard to keep that vehicle for a very long time.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “ Crap ideas. Let’s hope this stuff doesn’t make it into the final bill.

      If Congress wants to do more about drunk driving, I’d suggest making block grants to be used for localities to hire DWI cops or some such thing.”

      You must have forgot the narrative. CNN will be at your house soon for re-education.

      It’s “defund” the police. Not “fund” the police. You don’t want the police doing pretextual traffic stops because that’s racist (despite being very effective at getting guns, drugs, felons, and intoxicated people off the road).

    • 0 avatar
      raph

      The problem with providing money for DWI enforcement is that it isn’t applied uniformly. The police would target areas where they feel they would get the most bang for the buck providing spotty coverage at best and if it involves check points then enforcement is even less effective.

      An in car solution that disables the vehicle so somebody can’t drive will at some point prove more effective once the number of vehicles on the road reaches critical mass so to speak.

  • avatar
    mcs

    “under this section to carry out a pro10 gram to purchase, operate, or maintain an automated traffic enforcement system in a work zone or school zone.”

    That’s the only section where they are talking about traffic cameras. Granted, I’ve seen enforcement in those types of zones abused. School enforcement weeks after school is out of session for the summer and work zones that only consist of a few orange cones with no workers or actual work.

    Oh wait a second. They were sneaky about the driver monitor cameras. They used the words “passively monitor the performance of a driver of a motor vehicle”. That’s how you sneak stuff into laws. That kind of stuff can open all kinds of worms. What if it gets false positives at a higher rate for one race over the other? What about false positives for certain medical conditions. Some people seem to think that technology is magical and you can do anything with it. Autonomous vehicles are a good example. Oh, you can do it and they start throwing money and most people don’t know how to say no in those situations. They just keep taking the money and pushing out the deadlines. People that really want to drive drunk on a regular basis will just put a phone mount near the camera so they can position the phone close in front of the lens and play it videos of them driving sober. I suspect I could override the GM Supercruise with the same method.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Yes, there are medical conditions which can give a false positive on a breathalyzer.

      Also, a friend’s son was forced to have his car fitted with a breathalyzer ignition interlock due to a string of DUIs and related behavior. He did clean up, but sometimes he had to bum a ride to work because the breathalyzer would malfunction and need to be replaced, leaving him stranded.

      This and the cameras – bad ideas.

  • avatar
    285exp

    1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a how to manual.

  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    It’s a wonder even 16% approve of the job Congress is doing.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Because “congressional approval rating” is a meaningless stat. All that matters is how people feel about their own Congressional representatives…the ones they actually elect. They tend to approve of their own representatives…it’s yours they don’t approve of.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        My senator wrote me a letter full of blatant lies… 3 times

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          What is their name? Honestly if I wrote you back, it’d be to tell.you to fnck off and go back to Mother Russia.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Art, I came here to replace you. My children will eat your children’s lunch. And millions of illegals will make your descendants obsolete. This is the price for your Senator’s ignorance. He also sent you to a war far away and how do you feel now? Your brothers fell in battle and they will not make new Americans. But illegals will produce offspring here and turn this country into Guatemala. This is reality, soldier

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Lol Slavuta. All that is missing from your little screed is you banging on a lectern proclaiming “WE WILL BURY YOU!!!” How’s that work out? Your children eat because I pay for their food stamps. Additionally, I signed up…unlike when the Red Army was there, mine was a volunteer affair. Funny thing, I’d have done it for free…especially knowing those Taliban were your buddies.

            The United States has already defeated a nation of you idiots without firing a shot. A couple of bitter clingers like you will pose no problem and this country will assimilate your kids into its culture like we always do and you will be sad and more bitter.

            I do so many Military exercises based on confronting the Chinese threat. Yet very few on Russia. It’s almost like nobody takes you seriously. Oh sure, you cross Putin you get a face full of polonium, but a serious player on the national stage? Not since the 80s.

            As an aside, thanks for nearly crashing the ISS with your space agency’s buffoonery. If you told EBFlex that an F150 docked with the ISS and somehow decided it needed to fire it’s thrusters and do a flip after docking, even he would doubt that. But you pulled it off. Geeze man, lay off the vodka.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Art,
            I’ve been paying your military salary, so don’t forget this. You signed up yourself? – great. So foolishness is on you. You know the difference – US had never been in danger, you fought for Dick Chaney’s money. I fought for motherland.

            No firing a shot – exactly. KGB won this just as you pointed out. Infected America and unseated commies at home. Bastrds even told me – don’t go there, it is rotting. I did not believe. This one is on me.

            Oh gosh. Just say something about ISS. Have you yet collected all the shuttle pieces? Last year you saw yourself how American Astronaut Nick Hague was safely ejected from a Russian booster rocket during failed launch. May be you can learn something from Russians who had not have a death in space in 50+ years. Wait, US did learn from Russians. US had ZERO long flight experience and ISS is a direct result of Russia passing its technology to NASA when they needed money.

            Keep training. Chinese now have 3-child policy. So soon there will be awfully lot of them coming into your gun sights. As my friend told once, Chinese will fight using 100 small groups, 1 million people each. Make sure you don’t run out of ammo, which is right now a rare item on the shelves. I hope you feel really well in this fascistic regime. But what choice do you have – serve it or jail. Have you finished your CRT training yet?

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “Art,I’ve been paying your military salary, so don’t forget this. ”

            If it hadn’t been for Art and his parents paying taxes, you’d be assembling tractors in KhTZ.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Lol. I’m retired dude and 8n something very lucrative…paying plenty of taxes to cover your rent moratorium.

            I do love when your true colors come.out though. Keep going Comrade!

        • 0 avatar
          ttacgreg

          Sounds like you at least got linguistically meaningful content in the texts. Last time I wrote letters to a Senator, the Honorable Wayne Allard of Colorado, the replies were euphemistic borderline gibberish with so little meaning that it could not even provide a construct that constituted a lie.

        • 0 avatar
          Felix Hoenikker

          Can you link these blatant lies?

      • 0 avatar
        Master Baiter

        “They tend to approve of their own representatives…it’s yours they don’t approve of.”

        Tell me something I don’t know, genius. If that were the only reason, their approval rating would be about 50%, like the President’s.

        People know that Congress works for lobbyists, period. How else can you explain thwarting the will of the people on the biggest issues, including securing the border and voter ID, to name two examples?

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          Sluvata’s backstory appears to change according to what he is posting/complaining about. And The Russian people have only themselves to blame for not being able to mature past still believing in the ‘strong man’ theory of government. As a result the Russian economy is still smaller than many nations with much smaller populations and far less natural resources. What Russian does excel in exporting is propaganda, ransomware, and ‘biznesmen’ laundering massive amounts of money.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Arthur Dailey,

            right now there will be a rare event of agreeing with you. Because “strong man theory of government” and “laundering massive amounts of money” are totally connected, in my view anyways.

            What I see is this – in Russian Federation, in Ukraine (where I am from), same thing happens – businessmen who had made a good amount of money, find it more profitable investing it in the west. They take billions out of the country. If invested in the country, this money would help propel its economy. This is why in Russia they solved this issue by creating full or partial government control of the big business.

            In Ukraine, Oligarchy rules the state. In Belarus, Oligarchy separated from state. In Russia, state controls oligarchs to a degree.
            When Putin became interim president in 1999, GDP there was $195B. Today, under sanctions and covid it is $1.5T and pre-sanctions was over $2T. This is a huge improvement but the question is, how and why it became $195B? What nobody is talking about, is that with drunk Yeltsin and his American advisers, Russia took a hit comparable to destruction of WW2. I am very optimistic that if people like Yeltsin will not occupy the office anymore, Russia is on the way of better things. BTW, their PPP economy is #6 in the world and this is why despite all sanctions, you see them building everything.

  • avatar
    Tele Vision

    As Hellacious as this bill is it reminds me of a friend:

    He’s a great musician and buddy but he has a predilection for driving hammered. After his fourth DUI he had an interlock device installed in his 944. As this was before ubiquitous cellular communication he had to go to a police station once a month to have the data downloaded. The first time he did so he was proud, he said: he hadn’t driven drunk all month. He’d even shown his bar buddies the interlock system, which required that the operator hum as he blew, to confirm it was the registered owner by way of vocal profile.

    A cop came out of the back room and said, “Yes, you haven’t driven drunk all month – but you tried to do so 37 times!” They told him that, had it been one or two attempts, they’d arrest him on DUI, again. Instead, they told him to not be an idiot and sent him on his way.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Uh, waht?

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    a) People do dumb stuff.
    b) People do dumb stuff in and around vehicles, which can magnify the results of the dumbness.
    c) Technology can mitigate this to some extent, but ya gotta be careful with your approach.

    Example:
    “From 2006-2015, control loss was a factor in 29.7% of the 1,339,407 vehicle rollovers. ESC was standard equipment in 177,644 of vehicles involved in these events. Our study estimated that ESC was effective in reducing the overall number of rollover crashes by 13.3%. ESC was more effective at reducing rollover crashes due to control loss with a reduction of 50.6%. ESC is particularly effective for high center of gravity vehicles such as light trucks, SUVs, and vans. Travelling too fast for the road conditions was the most common reason rollovers due to control loss were not prevented despite the presence of ESC.”
    https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2019-01-1022/

    I) ‘Everyone’ wants a truck or an SUV.
    II) These roll over more easily than a traditional ‘car.’
    III) So we mandate Electronic Stability Control – which is helpful in preventing rollover (see “50.6%” figure above).
    IV) And we mandate much stronger roof crush standards – which is helpful if the vehicle does roll over.
    V) To meet the roof crush standards, the A-pillars get thicker [most OEMs], resulting in larger blind spots – which very likely drives an increase in other types of accidents.

    If ESC reached a certain level of effectiveness, we could potentially revisit the structural roof enhancements – BUT some people are still driving way too fast and will roll over anyway. So we keep *all* the countermeasures.

    [Similarly, airbags could be better/safer if the OEMs didn’t have to account for unbelted occupants – but they do.]

    In closing:
    People do dumb stuff (including legislators).

    • 0 avatar

      Are you saying smart stuff on the internet? Careful– people have been shunned for far less! LOL!!

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      There was a recent case in Ontario of an employee attempting to climb up a 14 foot hoist chain and as a result, slicing his scrotum.

      He launched a suit against his employer claiming among other things that his employer did not properly make him aware that doing this could be unsafe.

      People do dumb stuff. Even smart people.

      As a result the government introduces laws or rules in the hope that it will reduce the dumb stuff that people do.

      When a family loses someone due to a traffic collision, crime, etc, as humans they look to ‘blame’ someone. If their plight gets enough media attention, then politicians become involved.

      Thanks to that we have rules regarding food inspection, building codes, driving, auto safety/manufacturing, drug ad & alcohol purchasing/possession/consumption, workplace safety, water quality, air quality, pharmaceutical testing, and in all but one democratic 1st world nation firearms controls.

      And do to the above infant mortality rates, vehicle safety and life expectancy all increased.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    Two Thousand Seven Hundred pages.

    Number of congressmen/women who have read even 1/5 of this: zero.

    They’ll all still vote on it.

  • avatar
    chuckrs

    All this and more. Dick Durbin may try to get health supplements under FDA control using the infrastructure bill. There are other health related provisions under consideration also. Nothing to do with cars, nothing to do with infrastructure, other than using the infrastructure bill as a ‘vehicle’ to smuggle otherwise DOA pet projects through.

    • 0 avatar
      Imagefont

      Are you new? This is the way it has always been done, by both political parties. Packing bills with pork is how bills get passed in the first place.

    • 0 avatar
      Imagefont

      Double post.

    • 0 avatar
      SaabStory

      Try? FDA has been regulating dietary and medical supplements since ’94. The proposed change would just force manufacturers to register the drugs more quickly than before, and stick warning labels on them if there are any reported Adverse Effects. Claims would need to be backed up with research citations as well. If you think that’s onerous, they’re still not burdening you with a recommended dose lol. The regulatory climate you seek can still be found in headshops ;)

      More importantly, it would (nobly attempt to) define the line between dietary supplements and foods/drinks with biologically significant additives. I wish Senator Durbin the best of luck with that project.

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    These people in Washington are clueless. All these sensors added to vehicles today have a lot to do with how expensive vehicles have become.

    They may as well institute a sensor for not going over speed limit. It is coming soon.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    I am all for safety but a breathalyzer in every new vehicle is a bridge too far. More electronics making vehicles more expensive and more to go wrong. Agree that drunk driving is a danger to anyone on the road but this is going to make vehicles more expensive and adding more cameras and monitors smacks of big brother monitoring our every move. I am not a conspiracy theorist nor am I antigovernment but this is an overreach. Features like lane detection should be standard on all vehicle especially since more vehicles have blind spots due to smaller windows and thicker roof posts. As for automatic braking that is debatable especially when there are incidents of a vehicle automatically braking when it should not. Any additional mandatory electronics will make vehicles not only more expensive to buy but more expensive to repair and many more vehicles involved in minor accidents will be totaled by insurance companies due to more expensive repairs.

  • avatar
    ttacgreg

    Reminds me of this that I am old enough to have witnessed.

    https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/02/1974-seat-belt-starter-interlocks-piss-off-more-people-than-watergate-scandal/

  • avatar
    SirRaoulDuke

    The headline says mandatory, the article says suggests. Which one is it? This is garbage journalism, much like Posky’s mask article the other day.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    I hate Congress!

    OK, you going to vote for someone else?

    No way! Person X loves my Congresscritter and that’s why I’m voting for them.

    But your Congresscritter did this this and this…

    I DON’T CARE! I was told to vote for them by this corporate funded Super PAC TV ad!

    Morons

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      Yup. It’s incredibly easy to manipulate people, especially those who think they’re a Democrat or Republican. Then it’s even easier.

      Just make ’em scared of the boogeyman du jour or make them angry at each other (or both!) and then profit.

      Hate Orange Man? Profit. Had Senile Joe? Profit.

      Easy peasy.

  • avatar
    jmo

    “A second system measures blood alcohol content in the body’s capillaries by shining a light on a driver’s finger. It could be built into a vehicle’s start button or steering wheel.”

    That seems like a good idea if it’s possible. I don’t think a lot of people set out to drunk drive. I think they go to a BBQ or out for a few drinks, have 1-2-3 too many and then they need to get home. So they drive. Then they get pulled over, or hit someone or something, and it’s a whole big deal.

    This seems like something would save a lot of people a lot of trouble.

  • avatar
    burgersandbeer

    Do these driver monitoring cameras work if the driver wears sunglasses?

    From what I can quickly find, GM’s super cruise works OK; Subaru’s system does not. Not sure about the rest.

    It’s bad enough that Congress in considering a mandate for this tech, wise that it doesn’t seem to work well. Same for auto braking and radar cruise – kids of reviewers mention these systems causing unexpected, violent braking.

    I doubt any breathalyzer they come up with will work any better. Can’t wait to miss work and other appointments over false positives.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Um, since there is a “chip shortage” where are the “chips” coming from to do this Orwellian bullsh!t?

  • avatar
    Dartdude

    This govt hates you that is why they’re letting in all the illegals so they can to replace you free thinking people with govt slaves. They don’t want you to have and rights and freedom anymore. Controlling every aspect of your life is their goal. The biggest problem we have is now is the stupid. It seems that we are getting a whole new level of stupid. People wearing masks in a car alone is right there at the top. If you can smell a fart wearing a face mask that mask is doing nothing but making you inhale higher levels of CO2.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      A post about stupid filled with stupid.

      The delicious irony.

      You definitely should let the medical community know that doctors, nurses, etc. who have worn masks starting around the 1860s-1870s need to stop because of all the CO2.

      Stupid sheep, do what you’re told! I only listen to Q – who tells me what to do because I’m woke.

      The sweet, delicious, irony.

      • 0 avatar
        craiger

        Surgeons and nurses wear masks to mitigate the transmission of bacteria from their oral and nasal cavities into a patient’s open wounds. That isn’t the same thing as wearing a mask to try and prevent a virus from exiting your mouth and being carried by air currents as you and people around you breathe. Most viruses are much smaller than bacteria. Some can even get through the skin by passing through the spaces between cells.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Oy vey…yes, masks *do* help stop virus spread. No one said they were 100% effective.

          But apparently everything has to be 100% effective to make sense. Be sure to remember that the next time you have unprotected sex.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            NEWSPAPER TOUR GUIDE: And to protect Mother Earth each paper contains a certain percentage of recycled paper.

            LISA SIMPSON: What percentage is that?

            NEWSPAPER TOUR GUIDE: Zero. Zero is a percent, isn’t it?

          • 0 avatar
            Felix Hoenikker

            What avut ED sex? I’m just messing with you!

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ Oy vey…yes, masks *do* help stop virus spread. No one said they were 100% effective.”

            So the studies and doctors (like Fauci) that say, in fact, masks are not effective is what then? Not science because you don’t agree with it?

            What about instances where after a draconian mask mandate was put in place by power hungry democratic governors covid cases rose? And rose sharply for MONTHS?

            When you can explain why cases rose for months in one state of my choosing after a mask mandate was put in place I will begin to give your drivel some thought. Until then be quiet about the ineffective masks

        • 0 avatar
          APaGttH

          Wow. My wife, an anesthesiologist at a trauma hospital, a college professor, and who has practiced medicine in 3 countries, doesn’t think, but knows you’re wrong.

          If you want to debate an individual who started as an MD, went to OBYGN then to anesthesiology – well – good luck Don Quiote.

          In her medical system, anesthesiologists do all intubations. She is very well versed in PPE, masks, and how they work.

          Staff is masked 24/7 at work.

          There is so much junk science in your reply about what masks are used for, and how N95 medical masks operate.

          Bluntly put – that video you watched on YouTube does not trump 14 years of medical study in 3 different countries and 19 years of practice in the United States at two Level 1 trauma centers and instructing residents in a clinical setting at one of the top medical universities in the United States.

        • 0 avatar
          Number6

          Masks work. Virus particles don’t exist on their own. You spit when you talk, the spit carries. If you think a sticky protein shelled virus somehow exists without being stuck to something much bigger, well, quit watching Tucker’s Fascist Science Hour and investigate reality instead.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ Masks work. Virus particles don’t exist on their own. You spit when you talk, the spit carries. If you think a sticky protein shelled virus somehow exists without being stuck to something much bigger, well, quit watching Tucker’s Fascist Science Hour and investigate reality instead.”

            Why was there a major increase in cases after mask mandates were put into place?

            That’s reality. I investigated it. Now you can explain how masks actually do work. I’ll wait.

    • 0 avatar
      craiger

      Since some people here are inclined to use the “appeal to authority” style of argument, I will too. A good friend of mine is preparing for his doctoral dissertation this semester in molecular biology, so he’s been studying this stuff for a long time. According to him, masks do help a little, but how much they help depend on a lot of factors, especially the type of mask. These cheap blue masks that you see people wearing work very poorly. N95, much better. My wife and I wore N95s every time we left the house. Unfortunately, we still contracted it. We’re still suffering from the long term effects eight months later, but that’s another story.

      A particle of smoke is roughly five times larger volumetrically than the covid virus. The virus has to be attached to something to become an aerosol, but droplets can be very small as well. This is where the fit of the mask comes into play. Somebody wearing a cheap blue mask and sneezing is blowing aerosolized crap out past every edge of the mask. The bottom line is that people who work with viruses in labs wear full body suits.

      • 0 avatar
        Felix Hoenikker

        I agree, masks or face coverings are the way to go if that’s all you have. Vaccines are much better. Only scientifically ignorant would disagree.Iif they had he brain power to come up with an argument to the opposite. No, Face palm and other echo chambers do not count.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “ According to him, masks do help a little, but how much they help depend on a lot of factors, especially the type of mask. These cheap blue masks that you see people wearing work very poorly. N95, much better. My wife and I wore N95s every time we left the house. Unfortunately, we still contracted it. We’re still suffering from the long term effects eight months later, but that’s another story.

        A particle of smoke is roughly five times larger volumetrically than the covid virus. The virus has to be attached to something to become an aerosol, but droplets can be very small as well. This is where the fit of the mask comes into play. Somebody wearing a cheap blue mask and sneezing is blowing aerosolized crap out past every edge of the mask. The bottom line is that people who work with viruses in labs wear full body suits.”

        Very well stated. It’s nice to see some common sense and critical thought and not just vomiting the party line.
        And the smoke thing is a good point and proves how much the masks things is all about control. If they worked they would recommend or force them for the endless smoke pouring into this country from the useless Canadians.

        • 0 avatar
          craiger

          “If they worked they would recommend or force them for the endless smoke pouring into this country from the useless Canadians.”

          Can you please elaborate?

          • 0 avatar
            sgeffe

            My guess is that the reference was to the smoke from the fires out West.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ “If they worked they would recommend or force them for the endless smoke pouring into this country from the useless Canadians.”

            Can you please elaborate?”

            The smoke that was pouring into the upper Midwest from the Canadian wild fires was full of particulates that, as you said are much larger than covid. Smoke is harmful to inhale and poses a risk to people.

            But no government ever said to wear masks because of the smoke. And isn’t the whole point of masks for covid is to protect people? It’s hypocritical to demand masks for a rather benign virus that results in cold symptoms and has a 99.997% survival rate but not for toxic smoke.

  • avatar
    Mustangfast

    I figured I’d be keeping my current Mustang awhile, looks like I better start making it my coffin car even though I’m currently 35!

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    This is what liberals want. Complete control over all aspects of our lives. From masks to forced vaccination (is forced sterilization next?) to mandatory cameras in your vehicle.

    And there are many on this site that would welcome this type of draconian intrusion.

  • avatar
    Ol Shel

    I luv Murrica and I’m a patriot. They also needs to get rid of anti-lock breaks. Yeah, I said breaks, and I meant it. And them tools of oppression known as airbags. Wanna know the real reason for America’s decline? Yup, it’s TPMS. Real men check there (You’re damn right I wrote ‘there’) own pressures, once a year if’n they need it or not! Maybe you like being bound by a massive central gubmint, but I ain’t no Marxist, so I do not. I shot my seatbelts out with my AR, an’ I suggest you do too.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    My question to elected officials would be what does breathalyzers, driver monitoring cameras, and automatic braking have to do with infrastructure? Agree that more charging stations should be part of infrastructure. If the Government wants to save lives then put top priority on replacing obsolete and dangerous bridges like the I 71 and 75 bridge from Covington Kentucky to Cincinnati Ohio. For over 30 years there have been studies and discussion that the bridge is obsolete with more traffic using it then what it was designed for when it opened in the Fall of 1963. Making new vehicles more complicated and expensive will cause more people to hold onto their vehicles longer and cause more pollution, less efficient vehicles, and less safe vehicles. The Government cannot stop people from buying vehicles and it would be better for the environment and safety for people to driver newer vehicles than drive older polluting vehicles that are less safe. If anything it would be better to not add additional electronic nannies to new vehicles especially with a microchip shortage. How about giving the manufacturers and the consumers more incentives to replace older less efficient vehicles with new cleaner and more efficient vehicles.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Also if Toyota has perfected solid state batteries then why are they trying to slow EVs down.
    https://www.wired.com/story/toyota-whiffed-on-electric-vehicles-now-trying-slow-their-rise/

  • avatar
    Car61

    The unfortunate downside is that as people are protected from doing dumb stuff that would result in their personal injury, they have no incentive not to do dumb stuff anymore. People become dumber. They don’t know WHY they should not do dumb stuff. People become more and more separated from natural law, they no longer know natural law. Only problem is, natural law still exists despite their ignorance of it and their next encounter with it will be very painful indeed.

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