By on January 20, 2021

Image: lev radin/shutterstock

In about two hours, Joe Biden becomes the 46th president of the United States. What does this mean for the auto industry?

Before the election, I asked which candidate would be better for autos. Now that we have the new president ready to go after an, um, contentious couple of months, I am curious — what do you think a Biden admin means for the automakers?

Personally, I expect a return to the Obama-era fuel-economy standards (or something similar), and some policy goals that try to steer us to a greener world. Beyond that, I don’t know what to expect.

What say you?

Reminder: Keep it civil and keep the political discussions relevant to the topic at hand.

Now, discuss.

[Image: lev radin/Shutterstock.com]

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271 Comments on “QOTD: What Will the Biden Years Hold for Autos?...”


  • avatar
    WisconsinIrishJames

    Return to CAFE standards and increased penalties on ICE engines designed to make ICE smaller, less profitable, forcing ICE closer to unprofitablity and unnatural obsolescence, regardless of whether BEVs can be produced in mass to replace ICE vehicles or not.

    More green scams where a company promises better batteries, better BEV’s, recharging infrastructure, etc only to get taxpayer money, line their personal executive pockets but produce virtually nothing. The media and government will shrug and claim this is why we need more money in the same program already getting scammed.

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      And to think, all those scam green policies got us to the EV revolution. Who would have thought. What offends you most about cleaner air and utilizing fewer resources?

      • 0 avatar
        WisconsinIrishJames

        Classic strawman here.

        Question government spending where taxpayers got ripped off means you must want dirty water, dirty air and being wasteful.

        Want to see why we are so polarized, Dave M shows you why, agree with his view or you are an evil person.

      • 0 avatar
        WisconsinIrishJames

        Classic strawman here.

        Question government spending where taxpayers got ripped off means you must want dirty water, dirty air and being wasteful.

        Want to see why we are so polarized, Dave M shows you why, agree with his view or you are an evil person.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          And then there’s this: because of the government promoting EVs, there is now a Fortune 500 company employing hundreds of thousands of people where there wasn’t one before. Their stock has made any number of people wealthier.

          And now there is good old-fashioned competition for the Detroit 3. Why? Because people like their product. Imagine that.

          Now, last I checked, people making money and robust business competition were things that so-called “conservatives” were all for. When did that change?

          • 0 avatar
            deanst

            Come on man! Share your secret – what is this mystical company employing “hundreds of thousands of people”?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            OK, I wrote before I researched, so 100,000 is an exaggeration. Tesla employs about 50,000 people (plus all the supplier jobs, if you think about it). So my bad…but that’s 50,000 jobs that didn’t exist before, plus all the stock wealth the company has created. I’ll call all that a win for the economy.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Literally trillions for 3% market share and a stock which is on god mode.

        Hi I’d like to exchange my revolution for a new one if I could, this one is not meeting my expectations. Thanks!

        • 0 avatar
          Luke42

          “Literally trillions for 3% market share and a stock which is on god mode.”

          Think if the trillions we’ll save by not having to go to war for oil.

          All of those EVs can run on nuclear power. Or natural gas. Or coal. Or solar. The car doesn’t know, or care. If the world changes, the car will still run.

          Speaking of coal, you’d think the coal lobby would be all over EVs, because they increase the demand for electricity, which increases the demand for coal. [Shrug]

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “Think if the trillions we’ll save by not having to go to war for oil.”

            If the new administration does not start a new war somewhere in the next two years I will partially agree with you. I say partially because although there was a lot of gov’t money involved, not all of it was but effectively the entire economy subsidized the creation of Leaf and Volt, which were failures from a sales POV. Tesla too was partially financed from artificial CARB credits, which robs the market to pick winners.

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            The next war will probably be over Cobalt not oil. China has it, we need it, and the supply is running out. The good news is that progress is being made transitioning away from cobalt, but how we know that’s not an ecological disaster waiting to happen? We don’t. However our government just cancelled the keystone pipeline, managing to anger Canada, put thousands of people out of work, and get us closer to electric conversion by about a week. Sounds like a worthwhile trade off to me!

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @4onthefloor

            That’s a very astute observation. Several years ago it was posited this is why the US Army maintained a continued presence -if not occupation force- in Afghanistan. Perhaps Rare Earths were worth the price of blood and money in the eyes of the people above their heads?

      • 0 avatar
        4onthefloor

        You are 100% correct, UNTIL you factor in the manufacture and disposal of the lithium batteries. Then the whole green mirage goes out the window. When the world is awash in used up lithium batteries, America will rue the day they decided to go electric, and don’t forget to factor in all the power plant emissions to power up all those cars! And do you think power plants will be able to handle the increased load of all the cars, 18 wheelers, and everything else,
        ( Bitcoin miners, I’m lookin at you ) that will need electricity? NO, we’ll need more! Meaning more emissions! But you say solar will fill in the gaps! Sounds good in theory, but you will need huge battery farms to store the electricity, so I hope you don’t get upset looking at all of them. You will also need chargers everywhere, and I do mean everywhere because filling up with electricity isn’t yet nearly as fast as filling up with gasoline. When Elon Musk figures out how to shoot the waste into the sun, or better yet, deep space, and I believe he will, the rest should fall into place. It’s called scalability, and electric vehicles aren’t nearly there yet. I foresee a future where family’s will have to have 2 cars, one electric, for around town, and shorter trips, and a gasoline vehicle for trips to isolated areas, and long journeys. I’m guesstimating in 15 years we will be in a better position to know if this is going to work out. I own an electric bike, and it’s flat out amazing, but scaling this up the include electric cars and trucks for the whole country is a totally different ballgame. If we rush this transition, it will be a disaster. I just love these climate crusaders in Washington, they make it sound so easy, when they know nothing about it. Like a certain young lady from New York, who thinks her previous job experience LOL, suddenly make her an expert in everything. I also question if we can electrify airliners, one of the biggest sources of pollution and I believe the answer is no, unless we can discover how Tesla the man invented wireless transfer of electricity to them, because otherwise, loaded down with batteries, they will never get off the ground. China is making a big push to electrify all the vehicles in the entire country, but they pollute so much in other areas that the “ tragedy of the commons still will apply. I’m with you on the conversion, however our clueless politicians regardless of party will find a way to cluster**** this. Guaranteed.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I wish I could easily search my comments because several years ago we had an in depth discussion on the power grid vis-à-vis the pure EV. All I can remember is pulling the total mWH possible from the then 98 US nuclear reactors compared to the largest solar farm in the US (in TN)’s output and that of an industrial windmill. The result was something to the effect of it would take 15,000 windmills and some lesser but ridiculous amount of solar farms equal to the then county’s largest. Now I realize all reactors do not run all the time, and also do not run at max capacity, but the amount of electricity needed to completely replace nuclear power was staggering – and this is just replacement not adding any capacity (nuclear is something like about 20% of the nation’s power grid). Now add the pure EV which needs X watts every Y miles times Z owners, it simply does not scale given current realities. I argued what cannot be produced, won’t be produced, and the car as we know it simply becomes a tool and/or pleasure vehicle of the top 10-20% of society.

          The GM Voltec system and even Toyota’s HSD both were much more viable alternatives, which also allow for battery research to continue while still being realistic options. GM I believe has abandoned their Voltec system and Toyota will milk HSD for the foreseeable future and I believe will be far more successful than the pure EVs in most cases.

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            That’s exactly what I found. With current technology, going fossil fuel free is a pipe dream, buy in 15 years it could be done, but not by the entire crew in Washington. We need to start over entirely, but of course the politicians will never go for that. Both parties must be made to realize who they work for. People always ask me why I voted for Trump twice because everybody says he’s a bad man. It’s simple I tell them, it’s because he was the lesser of 2 evils both times, and remember we only have 2 choices here.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            28-Cars-Later: “several years ago we had an in depth discussion on the power grid vis-à-vis the pure EV”

            Technology has changed. Windmills and solar is much more efficient. In addition to improved generation technology there is grid storage technology which reduces waste of generated power.

            “Toyota will milk HSD for the foreseeable future”

            No they aren’t. They just spent years of research and are now probably the leaders in solid-state battery technology. They are now building the plants to put it into mass production and have announced several new EVs.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @mcs

            Oh so only 14,000 windmills instead of 15,000, what progress.

            A number of 1970s vintage reactors will be going offline over the next five years due to age and economic reasons (chiefly the cheap availability of natural gas). Even with new reactors coming online, in forty years nuclear capacity is set to *fall* nine points to 11%. Again this is diminishing existing capacity, so already more natural gas plants, solar, and wind must come online to be where we are *today* with 3% EV sales. Just assuming “oh all of this whiz bang stuff is coming” is incredibly disingenuous.

            “In 2017, the US Energy Information Administration projected that US nuclear generating capacity would decline 23 percent from its 2016 level of 99.1 GW, to 76.5 GW in 2050, and the nuclear share of electrical generation to go from 20% in 2016 down to 11% in 2050. Driving the decline will be retirements of existing units, to be partially offset by additional units currently under construction and expected capacity expansions of existing reactors”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_the_United_States

            “No they aren’t. They just spent years of research and are now probably the leaders in solid-state battery technology. They are now building the plants to put it into mass production and have announced several new EVs.”

            Links? If true, Toyota will have done the intelligent thing and used its profitable hybrid technology to allow it to continue battery research. This is unlike all competitors who plowed R&D into battery research and then lost a lot of money per unit on BEVs nobody bought or wanted. I also wouldn’t bet on dropping HSD anytime soon, it offers the consumer access to existing refueling infrastructure with reduced consumption and range while not draining the national power grid.

    • 0 avatar
      Peter Gazis

      WisconsinIrishJames

      But think of trillions of dollars the Nation will save not having to build and constantly rebuild a boarder Wall.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Bingo.

    • 0 avatar
      PandaBear

      Prius is not a scam, it is a practical way to reduce fuel cost and it is reliable. Trump on the other hand has been a scam and will always be a scam.

    • 0 avatar
      4onthefloor

      Ever try to plow 200 acres with an electric tractor? I hope you like going hungry, because farmers will only grow for themselves, and won’t be sharing with the clueless leaders and citizens that caused the problem. You want to be eating from garbage cans and dumpsters? I sure don’t. And no I’m not being dramatic, these policies are about as sound as impeaching someone without a trial, or the ability to defend himself. Do you want to be thrown in jail with no trial? That’s what coming if the madness isn’t stopped. Remember all the democrats were so concerned with guns? Well their policies have caused a massive increase in gun ownership, and if you press people into a corner and they feel there is no hope, they will use them, guarantee. Imagine 50,000 people storming the capitol instead of 1000. The only way to stop them will be to drop a bomb on them. When people get desperate, they do stupid things, and just like in the Middle East, it’s very hard to fight an enemy when they are not afraid to die, and have nothing to lose. I predict suicide bombers, just like the Middle East. God help us all. Democrats, when this all breaks out, remember, most of you you wanted this. And I pray people wise up before it’s too late. The

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        “Ever try to plow 200 acres with an electric tractor? ”

        Sure, why not. It could be done easily at a lower cost than diesel.

        youtube.com/watch?v=gMaQq_vRaa8&feature=youtu.be

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Well, this should be fascinating.

    Based on the “follow the money” theory of American politics – i.e., the way things work no matter who’s in office – here’s what I expect:

    1) They’re going to continue to build, sell and service cars and trucks in this country. Why? Because all of those endeavors involve millions of jobs, and millions of dollars in campaign contributions. No politician wants to endanger that. So don’t hand me the “Biden is a commie who wants to do away with cars” mental masturbation – take your pills and acknowledge that Biden is actually a politician who wants to get re-elected (or wants to get Kamala Harris elected in four years, if you buy the “we really elected Harris” theory), and torpedoing millions of jobs means he won’t. He’s not coming for your cars, folks. Doing that destroys his political career and his party. Not happening.

    2) There will be some push towards electrification. And that’s a good thing, even if you leave out the environmental benefits – it means jobs for Americans. And I’m not talking about just building the cars – it means building the infrastructure for the cars. If it means tax credits, then so be it. Again, refer to the “jobs equals re-election” idea. But the market, not the government, will determine when EVs become dominant (or even more significant) in the market, if ever.

    3) There will be move to let states regulate their own emissions standards. And carmakers will have to deal with that, or pay politicians to rewrite the Constitution to eliminate the idea of states’ rights. I’ll file that under “not happening ever.”

    4) There will be a push for more mass transit. And I’m fully in favor of that – it means less pressure on our road system, and more jobs for people to build and run the transit systems. Works for me. Again, refer to the “follow the money” theorem.

    5) There will be money devoted to at least investigate autonomous driving systems. Again, this creates jobs and business opportunities. But the government can only do so much to push this on people – the market has to decide it wants this tech in widespread use. And I don’t think the tech is ready for it, so for now, it remains a pipe dream. But in the long run, the tech can be useful, and it’ll create jobs, so it’ll be invested in.

    FreedMike, out.
    Drops mike.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Well said. I probably won’t favor his entire agenda – at least on global warming, but Biden is a car guy who won’t destroy the industry.

      Trump’s cage match with the CARB was harmful to the industry. I’m sure that ends today.

      • 0 avatar
        Oberkanone

        National Emissions Standard is great for industry.
        Biden will revoke California exemption to set emissions standards & will unite the United States of America.
        One Nation, One Standard

        • 0 avatar
          PandaBear

          3) There will be move to let states regulate their own emissions standards. And carmakers will have to deal with that, or pay politicians to rewrite the Constitution to eliminate the idea of states’ rights. I’ll file that under “not happening ever.”

          “National Emissions Standard is great for industry.
          Biden will revoke California exemption to set emissions standards & will unite the United States of America.
          One Nation, One Standard”

          Let me guess, state right is only good as long as it benefits the conservative states?

        • 0 avatar
          4onthefloor

          That’s what I want to see too. One standard. This California and a few other states emissions regulations thing raised prices for everyone else, and I’m sure we’re subsidizing California.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      I’d caution against advocating for a “broken window fallacy” outcome when it comes to jobs. 2, 4, and 5 on you list require effective implementation, especially #4 which has a long, glorious history of poorly managed boondoggles. I do not have confidence that Sec. Buttigieg can pull it off.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Of course, it assumes that the policies will be effective, but that depends on the policy. Some “pump priming” policies work; others don’t. It depends on the industry and the policy. De facto government-funding the computer industry and the Internet worked spectacularly well. Whatever government investment that went into the direct and indirect (read: tax-credit-driven) investments for these industries has been dwarfed by the returns. Same for companies like Exxon – they got tax incentives to go looking for oil, AND the full might of the U.S. foreign policy and military establishments to make sure that their overseas sources of oil ran smoothly. Say what you want about Tesla, but I’m pretty sure the Eighth Carrier Fleet never stood ready to blow the crap out of anyone who held up a shipment to them.

        The results are mixed in other ventures (solar, EVs, etc.).

    • 0 avatar
      4onthefloor

      @ FreedMike
      Please! Not Cameltoe! Just no. I heard enough about sneakers to last a lifetime. I want to see work ethic, but I guess that’s asking too much to, you know, actually work and accomplish something.

  • avatar
    Arcadia_Ego

    I think it is likely that he will listen to experts in industry and in environmental think tanks and work out a compromise unsatisfactory to both that will be typical of the moderate policy that will get him re-elected. It will be nice to have someone in who is interested in reality as well as power.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    You will become one with the EV. You will all become one with the EV.

  • avatar
    Steve Biro

    One interesting note: Joe Biden may be the first U.S. president who really is a car guy. Certainly, he’s the only president to ever own a Corvette – which is still his. Given his blue-collar roots, I suspect Biden won’t want to blow up the auto industry. Move things along toward electrification – yes. But no wholesale changes that will put tens or hundreds of thousands of people out of work. Remember, Biden at heart is a centrist.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      Another of the family’s V8 Chevrolets:

      https://photos.com/featured/neilia-biden-car-crash-bettmann.html

      • 0 avatar
        toronado

        That is in extremely poor taste.

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          You’re not wrong.

        • 0 avatar
          4onthefloor

          If you look at her history, it’s spot on. Have you ever heard of Willie Brown? When Stephen Coal Bert (sic) said Donald Trumps mouth looked like a ****holster during his monologue, I’ll bet you laughed yourself silly. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, it’s suddenly not so funny anymore is it? Treat with respect, and ye shall be treated with respect.. You can’t have it both ways. By the way, where is she? Waiting in the wings for Pelosi to pull a 25?

      • 0 avatar
        JD-Shifty

        Wow, were you this much of a “tool” before donnie took office??

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          @JD-Shifty, my personal shortcomings are well-known to all.

          I am still working through this idea that “Joe Biden is a car guy” – maybe I shouldn’t do my thinking out loud.

          When your dad manages the largest Chevrolet dealership in Delaware and gives you – not the Rally Red 427, but the Goodwood Green 327 – to me that is different than a car you chose for yourself. When your kids have the engine rebuilt for you as another gift – again, just not feeling the commitment. You take the train to work (and boast about it), and haven’t owned another car in decades, but you’re a hard-core car guy. OK.

          And pardon me for bringing it up again, but a car crash just about wiped out his young family.

          “When Joe Biden was first sworn in as a U.S. senator in 1973, he took the oath in a Wilmington, Del., hospital, where his sons Beau, in the bed, and Hunter, in the arms of Biden’s father-in-law Robert Hunter, had been treated after a car crash that left his wife and daughter dead.”

          There’s a picture of the oath ceremony in this NPR article, halfway down:
          https://tinyurl.com/y5xtd63x

          To me, that would tend to stick with you.

        • 0 avatar
          4onthefloor

          No. Only when a duly elected President was threatened with impeachment his second day in office, got a colonoscopy from Mueller, who found nothing after spending 20 million of OUR money for nothing, impeached for nothing on the Ukrainian call and denied due process by Schifty Schiff, and denied due process to boot. And then impeached again, again without due process. Read his speech again, he said: GO DOWN TO THE CAPITOL PEACEFULLY AND MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD. But I guess you have “ minority report powers” and can tell what a person is thinking. Please share how you do it? I know of no one else that can do it, so please share your secret, seems the all you can do is throw out one word insults that require no thought of position, no logic and unfortunately very little intelligence. It’s easy to throw out insults. You guys fall for the “honey pot “ every time. Call me out on an insult by insulting me too. Except that Harris deserves it. Look up Willie Brown and learn.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            The witless ape is now in florida trying to stay out of jail.

            https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/witless-ape-rides-helicopter/

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Actually, I think several presidents were “car guys” – Trump included. Obama’s last car before getting elected was a hemi-powered Chrysler 300, which is a pretty legit ride. Bill Clinton famously had an old Mustang. Apparently W. has a Ford truck he likes to tool around in on his ranch. And so on.

      The big difference is none of these guys were rich like Trump, who had the kinds of showy cars rich guys have – Ferraris, Rollers, etc.

      But I’d say Trump certainly enjoyed cars and had (and may still have) several very cool ones.

    • 0 avatar
      Dan

      Biden is at heart a politician, any personal beliefs are wholly superseded by the political winds of keeping his job. In a sane America he was a sane centrist. In 2020 this old white boomer with a Corvette is now for bussing, mass immigration, and defunding the police.

      • 0 avatar
        SnarkyRichard

        None of that rancid bullshit is true . But keep watching Faux News and swallow their lies and misinformation like Stormy Daniels swallowed your orange hero’s man juice. White supremacist America is counting on you to support the next autocracy !

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Dan,

        Biden is fake. All he is for is to become a president. BTW, that was his goal from day 1 in politics. He will say anything that fits his current needs.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          He is a Buddhist par excellence.

          “The doctrine of emptiness is common to all Buddhist traditions and it is emphasised that an insight into the state of emptiness allows access to a wider realisation of the Buddha’s teaching.” One has to careful not to mistake great spiritual attainment for lights-on-nobody-home.

        • 0 avatar
          PandaBear

          “Biden is fake. All he is for is to become a president.” Welcome to US politics, and the rest of the world’s politics (other than a few dictators).

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Biden 8/10ths dead and made a Faustian bargain which seems to have worked out for him. As you said, in a sane America he was viewed as a sane centrist but we don’t live there anymore. This man will have zero compunction selling every soul down the river now that he has what he wanted.

        • 0 avatar

          Mr.B is a puppet put there by oligarchs who run Demo pty, no more no less. He decides nothing. Most likely he will go back to the basement where he came from and let vice to run the show. I do not think it will end well. World is changing fast and America is fooling around and may be left behind. Only good outcome is we will not wake up every morning to hear another crazzy T-tweett.

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            He is a puppet, and his name is Walter. The only question is who’s hand is up his ***? That’s what I want to know!
            It certainly isn’t Jeff Dunham’s hand!

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          28-Cars-Later,

          “Faustian bargain”

          Indeed, and I’m not sure only figuratively. He reminds of of the character Devine (later Lord Feverstone) in C.S. Lewis’s Perelandra trilogy (an utterly superb depiction of the nature of good and evil).

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        @Dan,
        “defunding the police.”

        Biden is against defending the police, even though a lot of vocal Biden voters are for it.

        If you had been paying attention, you would know this.

        The other thing you would know if you were paying attention is that “defund the police” is really just a cathartic shorthand for “give the police a narrower mission, and replace some of them with mental health specialists and social workers.” Alas, your news sources haven’t done the due diligence of asking the protesters “what do you actually mean by that?”

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Luke42 – “If you had been paying attention, you would know this”

          The problem is that they’ve been paying attention to tRump lies and those of his supporters.

          I’ve read that the QAnon universe is imploding because tRump lost. So much for omnipotent Q and tRump as the “second coming”!

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          I’m not sure the protesters have much of an idea what they themselves mean by “defund the police.” And, I’m certain they have no idea of the ulterior motive their handlers have for wanting the police gone.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Old_WRX – “defund the police” is easier for the left or right to say in a chant or Twitter tiraid than to say ,”shift funding away from criminal prosecution of those with mental health and addictions problems, and those living in abject poverty towards funding healthcare,mental health,and social services ”
            My town has psychiatric nurses paired with police officers to deal with mental health and addictions. The police love it.

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            @Old_WRX:
            “I’m not sure the protesters have much of an idea what they themselves mean by “defund the police.””

            I’m sure there are some fools in the ranks of the Black Lives Matter protesters.

            But, there are also some fools in the ranks of Trump supporters as well, as we saw in spectacular fashion on January 6th 2021. You know what they say about people who live in glass houses and throwing stones.

            Comparing policy proscriptions is a much more fruitful activity than comparing the fools in each movement.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @28-Cars-Later – thanks. It’s much appreciated.

            I view it all like getting a good dog. If it’s raised from a pup with love and attention, you’ll have a great pet.
            What do you do with dogs that were beat and abused or abandoned as pups? You can intervene and rehabilitate some.
            Others you can try but once they are clearly lost causes, what then? Lock them up.
            The worst of the worse? You might have no choice but to put them down.

            Police are a reactionary force. They are trained to react to crime or violence. How do you reduce the need for them? You work on the root causes.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            You’re welcome, I’m happy there are still people who sometimes may have different views but can still agree on what is reasonable and positive. Your dog analogy is quite apt, although myself don’t have much experience with dogs let along rehabbing abused ones. My common sense wants to agree with notion you cannot save everyone, but a part of me also realizes people are more complex than animals, possessing reason and morality. Maybe there are some times we have to look at choices made, because even a “lost cause” can make the right choice as much as they can make the wrong one. In all the craziness of some of these police events, I seldom see a discussion of choices.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          “give the police a narrower mission, and replace some of them with mental health specialists and social workers.”

          I just had a conversation along these lines last night. The general thought was, as LEOs retire if they start replacing them with social workers existing LEOs will end up being called by the social workers when the situation goes beyond their control – which will be often. So it would basically be dead wood against their headcount, and there is already a fair amount of that now. The general thought of these LEOs was let a few of the Dr. Phils get killed in situations they cannot handle and very quickly the whole “defund” argument becomes moot.

          The Poplawski murders happened here in 2009 and I know people who knew two of these men when it happened. It was a domestic disturbance call and Poplawski’s mother advised 911 he was well armed. Ofcs Sciullo and Mayhle literally did not have a chance and both took rounds to the head. Ofc Kelly lived three blocks from the scene and was literally driving home from a shift when the call went out. I was told he took at least one AK round to the leg losing part of it. I’m not sure if he bled out on the scene and Wikipedia doesn’t explain so I assume something to that effect happened to him. Two other officers were injured before they were able to take down Poplawski with rounds to the legs.

          Fortunately its not often, but this sh!t happens. Actual trained officers were taken by surprise and lost their lives, do you think social workers have more than a zero percent chance of handling something like this? How about the run of the mill domestic where a perp in a fit of rage grabs his illegal 9mm and puts rounds in the social workers then his girl, and then after realizing what he’d done, himself? Life is f**ked up and it will happen if these insane plans go forward.

          Oh and for the “protesters” -some of which were ***rioters***- are they going to chant “F*** the police” when a Poplawski wannabe shows up in body armor to light them up and they call 911? A minor miracle that hasn’t happened yet but they’re sitting ducks when they march – especially when its more spontaneous like something on Facebook and not permitted so the zone knows to assign officers to monitor. 1-800-CHECK-YOUR-PRIVILEGE isn’t going to cut it.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_shooting_of_Pittsburgh_police_officers

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @28-Cars-Later – one can always find situations where mistakes get made. Cops could have easily been killed instead if dispatched incorrectly.

            Part of the process is to have a layered response. I worked part-time as a Paramedic for 20 years. Dispatch protocols are there to try to keep frontline staff from walking blind into a slaughter.

            Another aspect is that when dealing with street people, addicts, and those with mental health problems, you get to know them. Safely building a trusting relationship is the key to success.

            The whole process is much more complex than replacing police with social workers.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Thanks Lou, you are frequently the voice of reason in a sea of madness. Might be a Canadian thing, we probably should be working with you guys on stuff like this.

            I’m a little charged on the Poplawski thing, easily could have been a different zone and been my second cousin instead of the officers who laid down their lives for a lunatic. What really goes on in the field is really messed up, and the local media here frequently holds back facts and shapes whatever bent they like. When I hear “I was there this is what happened”, and then see “news” giving one fact and holding back two more, if its not “fake” its definitely “half truth” news. This city in the grand scheme is minor, so if that’s happening here its happening in other places. They are telling you what they want you to know/hear, whether this is part of some grand collusion or just helps the bottom line, I cannot be sure.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            28-Cars-Later,

            As I recall, domestic disturbances are actually some of the more dangerous calls police get. What could possibly be done would be for the police to make the initial response, then if they feel they can deescalate, call in social workers — hopefully well trained in domestic issues.

            Sending social workers in the door first would be a big mistake.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @Old_WRX

            That sounded like how it may play out, the serious point made by the men I was talking to was the headcount for those social worker positions will come out of their budget. This is a bigger problem than most because about only 1/3rd of the entire Bureau does patrol (real police work), and of that 1/3rd, only 2/3rds can really be counted on for serious scenarios (some patrol guys near their 20 and out of shape, some of the women aren’t big/strong enough so they purposely put them in less violent zones etc).

            This year and next, a whole bunch of that 1/3rd are at or past their 20 and may take retirement. Because of the virus crisis, they cancelled the cadet class and it takes about a year from start to finish because PA essentially makes them get an associate’s degree with the amount of training they receive. So next year losing some actual police officers, not likely having cadets to replace them until 2022, and potentially replacing patrol officers with Dr. Phils who “can’t carry their weight” from the patrol standpoint. Add to that the fact younger guys with a few years on have been transferring to be detectives because of the national and local political situation regarding police (historically you couldn’t make detective without 10+ years to your name). Not looking good. Maybe the Bidet administration won’t take a hard stance against police? Maybe since the overall mission was accomplished the agent provocateurs will recede and we won’t have a repeat of last summer?

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            Yup. Being a police officer is like being a pilot. Hours of boredom followed by seconds of sheer terror. I know more than my fair share of cops too. Many are resigning, and moving to Texas. Where men are men, and criminals are given one warning shot. You don’t mess with Texas! Now I’m not a big guy, at 6’ and 190 but I’m not that small, but when I went to Texas many years ago, every time I sat down on a commercial bowl my feet were literally hanging in the air, and couldn’t touch the ground. LOL. I felt like a midget down there! They raise them big!

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Dan,

        “In a sane America”

        This is not a sane America.

    • 0 avatar
      PlaysInTraffic

      IIRC, Leonid Breshnev was quite the car guy, too. For himself, anyway; because some animals are more equal than others.

      https://youtu.be/dKKYhTBbX0s

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Word has it Brezhnev complained about the smog controls on the Lincoln. Something about how the throttle response on the Town Car Nixon gave him was really off.

    • 0 avatar
      4onthefloor

      Steve,
      I think you mean used to be a centrist. His election debt requires him to move way left. He owes too many people. Trump owed no one, and the swamp & deep state hated him for it. We traded our best player for a worn out veteran. Ask the Rockets how that worked out. ( I cheat and watch highlights online, but I’ll never watch a full NBA game again as long as I live)

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      28Cars,

      “I’m not familiar with the character but am now intrigued.”

      I have read many, many books, but Lewis’s depiction of good and evil is singularly acute. He is mostly regarded as a Christian apologist, but this trilogy has almost no mention of religion as such. On the one hand you could say that the way he presents it any child could understand it. OK, I give up… I can’t begin to do it justice. Oh, and by the way, it’s great fun to read, too.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    That’s a lot of words to say that his (well not his….he hasn’t a clue what’s going on) policies are going to screw the auto industry just like they are going to screw the country. Just by halting the wonderful XL pipeline they are going to do a lot of damage to this country.

    California is the illegitimate “president’s” model for how the country should be run. So high taxes, people fleeing the state, massive budget deficits, a focus on illegal aliens versus actual citizens, crazy high numbers of big scary covid despite lockdowns and masks (not that we needed any more proof that those things don’t work but thanks CA), etc.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      We’ve found a True Believer.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Tell me this, why people leave CA, NY, NJ, IL? Why?
        Why, when I ask people, most say, “in the 1990s we lived better, we felt better in America”? BTW, in the 1990s people were moving to those same places.

        This is not abut Biden but about the whole power structure today. Biden is an old man and can be easily influenced. He is Brezhnev of the USA, a figurehead. So, anything is possible to a car industry. Most likely, it will leave many unhappy

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          “ell me this, why people leave CA, NY, NJ, IL? Why?”

          Same reason why millions of people moved *into* these states at the same time: personal choice.

          Glad I could be of service.

          • 0 avatar
            toronado

            thats fantastic!

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            FreedMike,

            “personal choice”

            Without a doubt it has to do with personal choice. However, when there is a strong trend like this in personal choice it is reasonable to ask if there is a particular reason for so many making this choice at one time.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Strong trend”? The fact is that from 2010 to 2019, California had *positive* net migration.

            https://www.prb.org/usdata/indicator/migration/snapshot/

            Any number of highly conservative states had *negative* net migration.

            I mean, are people moving out of Kansas in droves because of supposed far-left politics and exorbitant taxation? Nope. In fact, that state tried a huge tax *cut* program that backfired disastrously.

            Far as California is concerned…it’s all due to cost of living, and the main culprit there is clearly the cost of land. I see real estate appraisals every day from places like L.A. and the Bay Area with ridiculously expensive land values. Taxation explains that? Nope. Supply and demand does. And the demand continues, even as folks like you and Slavuta keep beating the “everyone’s leaving Cali” drum. They aren’t. And the ones moving in are the ones with money. You really think folks with money *like* supposedly exorbitant taxation? Yeah, right.

            Try again.

          • 0 avatar
            Oberkanone

            California, Texas, Florida, New York, New Jersey and Illinois accounted for 59% of illegal immigrants.

            Subtract 2.2 million from CA population.

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          EBFlex is right – as are you – about states driving people away via high taxes, etc.

          But that’s not what I’m talking about here.

          The illegitimacy theory about the election hinges on a conspiracy that is mathematically impossible to support. And with Covid – masks and distancing are demonstrably effective.

          I hesitate to state such things because everyone’s “facts” have become their own truth – no critical thinking is necessary. Critics of these “facts” are automatically part of the Deep State. It’s lunacy.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            SCE to AUX,

            “no critical thinking is necessary”

            It is possible that some might think critically and still not agree with you.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “It is possible that some might think critically and still not agree with you.”

            Critical thinking is a fact based process.

            60 plus failed court cases alleging election fraud.
            FBI and Justice Department both said there was no evidence of widespread fraud.
            Georgia’s Governor General pointed out there was no widespread fraud.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @Lou:

            The term “alternative facts” was, in fact, coined in Trumpland. Accidental? I think not.

            Translation: anything they don’t believe, or don’t want to believe, is non-factual to them. It’s kind of like the Catholic Church telling Galileo that the Earth didn’t revolve around the Sun, despite convincing factual evidence to the contrary. It’s all belief, all the time.

        • 0 avatar
          Oberkanone

          Illinois is poorly managed. Individuals and businesses leave for more favorable futures. Population decrease for many, many years. Neighboring states Indiana and Wisconsin are gaining in population. It’s not because they have better weather than Illinois.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Agreed, Illinois is a mess and has been for a long time. Financial mismanagement, corruption, you name it. But I looked up some population figures and what I’m finding is that the key driver of the state’s population – the Chicago area – is actually growing, albeit slowly. The population loss is likely from what they call “downstate” – the southern end of the state. And I’d bet it has a lot to do with the decline of the coal industry. Illinois is actually one of the top coal producing states in the country, and coal has been decimated by cheap natural gas. I’m sure that’s not helping the state’s finances either.

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            @Oberkanone,
            “Illinois is poorly managed. Individuals and businesses leave for more favorable futures. Population decrease for many, many years. Neighboring states Indiana and Wisconsin are gaining in population. It’s not because they have better weather than Illinois.”

            Illinois wears its problems on its sleeve, but I moved here and I have no intention of leaving. My employer has no intention of leaving.

            Jimmy John talked a lot of smack about leaving for Florida, but didn’t — presumably because he couldn’t convince his employees to move there for reasons which benefit him (and not them).

            Pritzker has handled the COVID situation competently, which has largely made up for the incompetence at the federal level. Red states are not faring as well during COVID, because COVID doesn’t respond to the Laffer Curve.

            It’s easy to repeat the same tropes about Illinois. Lots of people say lots of things. But, are these tropes a usefully accurate model of the real world?

            Chicago is an economic powerhouse and a center of global trade. There are a number of smaller downstate cities in Illinois which aren’t doing well. The main difference seems to be that Chicago has a diversified and globally-connected and globally-connected economy while, say, Danville Illinois is all in on old-school heavy industry and has failed to attract new higher-end globally-competitive businesses. I’d love to talk about how to solve these problems, but my solutions run counter to a lot of conservative ideology. However, my city (and Chicago) are doing great — because we have globally-competitive education and businesses. I’m not planning to Illinois leave, and nor is my employer.

            I have no intention of moving to Georgia, or Virginia — both of which are redder states than Illinois, and where I would have family and (some) employment opportunities. I have no intention of moving to Austin, TX, or Kansas City — even though both are trying to be welcoming to people with my job-skills. I’d rather live in Illinois!

        • 0 avatar
          PandaBear

          “Tell me this, why people leave CA, NY, NJ, IL? Why?”

          Two words: tech booms. You have a lot of engineers and scientists move there to start businesses that gave you the growth in your S&P500 growth. The lower income people are driven out and move to Texas and other lower income states. Don’t feel sorry for them, they cash out on the back of the tech bros and retire well in these lower income states and help you guys trickle down the economy.

          Seriously, do you think it is better for nations to remain rural, conservative, blue collar, religious, low tax, and finally low income?

          You cannot have a growing tech based economy when you are focusing only on tax and immigration. Try those American first protectionism policy and see where do the tech workers already here go? Canada. Our property tax based school system is not doing so well, our math and science are horrible, in conservative states like Alabama and Mississippi. As you can see low tax and conservatives won’t fix education.

        • 0 avatar
          4onthefloor

          @slaviuta.
          Nailed it!
          I live in N.J. and used to work in NY a lot. NJ has gone downhill a lot in the last 20 years, and I don’t see it getting better anytime soon.
          Snaggletooth Murphy has really put a hurting on us, and his sending Covid patients into nursing homes was murder in my opinion, as it was extreme negligence, same as Andrew “ I wish I was Joe Piscopo “ Cuomo. They are both guilty of murder in my opinion. I know nothing about running a government, but that’s just common sense not to do that. Between Cuomo
          And the maniacal pot smoker in Gracie Mansion, New York is finished .. will take 10 years to come back if ever as super predators now roam the street’s unchecked.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Lou_BC,

      “Critical thinking is a fact based process.”

      Yup, and I would need a whole lot more facts before I would claim to know what happened election 2020. I know these days they keep repeating the ersatz refutation: “conspiracy theory.” But, the idea that the rich and powerful would never stoop to conspiring is laughable. People in this country badly need to get over the idea that somehow our politicians are automatically less corrupt than politicians in other countries. That is a dangerous delusion.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Oh, good Lord…what serves as “100% proof” for you? How about Jesus reappearing in the middle of Times Square with a big neon sign saying “My Dad Agrees – The Election Wasn’t Stolen And He Knows EVERYTHING”?

        Trump’s “the election was stolen” BS has been shot out of the sky by every state official and every court he’s brought them to, and most of the tailgunners ***ARE REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS, MANY IF NOT MOST OF WHOM WERE TRUMP SUPPORTERS THEMSELVES***. And he even tried the Supreme Court, where ***SIX OF THE JUSTICES ARE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS, THREE OF WHOM WERE APPOINTED BY TRUMP HIMSELF***, and even they told him to grow up and get over it.

        I think that’s good advice for you too. Drop the rock, bro.

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          @FreedMike, the orange menace is gone – in yet another peaceful transition of power. Your guy won (clearly). The President and the Vice President now have a clear path forward to Do What Needs Doing.

          Now are you going to continue to live in the past, or are you gonna get on board the Unity Unity train?

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/01/20/biden-inauguration-speech/

          [Ixnay on the ‘Jesus’ talk. Today was a time for invoking “God” – as generically, nonspecifically and inclusively as possible – and then we can move on until the next time it is politically expedient to invoke any references to deity (the oath is “sacred”; the Capitol grounds are “sacred”, yada yada).]

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          FreedMike,

          Your guy’s in. Rejoice. The rest is in the past. No amount of ranting on either side of the issue is going to change a GD’d thing. And, don’t worry, it will soon be illegal or at least highly inadvisable to voice a dissenting view. You won’t have to hear anyone disagree.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Oh, yeah, you’re being muzzled at some unknown point in the future. Just like Obama was coming for everyone’s guns, and Biden is coming for everyone’s cars (and Trump was going to take away women’s rights), and on and on and on. It never happens. Why? Because it would be politically unpopular to do so. You think people are going to vote for someone who truly tries to do away with the First Amendment? Yeah, right.

            But the folks who push that stuff never let that get in the way of a good, fear-based amorphous threat that gets folks riled up.

            The riot at the Capitol is what happens when people buy into that kind of nonsense en masse. You think their fears were based in reality? Of course not. They were based on a self-victimization fantasy – that their votes had somehow been nullified, despite case after case after case of such allegations being proven false.

            Blah, blah, blah. You’re not making political arguments – you’re just spouting bulls**t.

            At some point, politics in this country have to cease being about nonsense “threats” and more about policies.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          @Freed

          I don’t know how much older than me you are, but I think you could relate to this better than I can understand. I see it as 1963 without the assassination, because in the winter of 1963 99.8/9% of the country believed Oswald was a gunman (if not sole gunman) who killed President Kennedy. But after the 23rd I have no doubt some in the know thought something was fishy, then after the Ruby shooting those and probably others started to doubt the official narrative. Even the Warren Commission likely had doubts either behind closed doors or to confidants, even if none of them had direct or even secondhand knowledge of any events of that day. Arlen Specter concocted the magic bullet theory and they went along with it, because they had to present a conclusion to the national tragedy and none of them would dare stand up and voice doubts. They like their govt’ jobs, they like their lifestyle, why be the squeaky wheel? Kennedy was dead, they likely were not involved, why rock the boat? One of my favorite lines is from the end of Scorsese’s “Casino”, where Pasquale Cajano as Remo Gaggi says to the other bosses “Why take a chance?”. I see this as being what played out in the Fall of 2020, and maybe in fifty years some confidential memos will be released which shed doubt on the official narrative yet again.

        • 0 avatar
          4onthefloor

          There is a big difference between knowing and proving! You know you neighbor stole your shirt because you see him wearing it, so you call the police, your neighbor suspects you say him wearing the shirt, and are likely to have just called the police, so he goes inside and changes into a different shirt. When the police arrive, the neighbor says he has no idea what you’re talking about, and since police can’t go into his house without a warrant, and no judge will issue a warrant on such flimsy evidence, they can’t go in and check. You know he stole your shirt, you just can’t prove it. See how easy that is?

      • 0 avatar
        ect

        Lou_BC, it is important to note that the Trump legal cases almost all focused on flimsy process claims – usually that changes in election processes (mostly to expand opportunities to vote by mail) were made in violation of state election laws. Rudy Giuliani acknowledged at least once in open court that Trump’s case did not include allegations of voter fraud (because there was never any evidence of significant voter fraud).

        In the media, the Trumpkins screamed about “massive voter fraud”. In court filings, made under penalty of perjury, no such allegations were made. We know why not.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          ect,

          “We know why not.”

          We do? Hmmm. I’m sure you’re trying to say it’s because the claims were just trumped up nonsense. Aw, shucks.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @ect- it does appear that 60 plus judges did not have a problem with changes to “mail in” ballots and changes to compensate for COVID-19 pre-election.
          If there was widespread irregularities then those changes would have been just as beneficial to tRump’s cause except he shot himself in the pecker by claiming widespread mail-in fraud and to vote in person.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @ect- it does appear that 60 plus judges did not have a problem with changes to “mail in” ballots and changes to compensate for COVID-19 pre-election.
          If there was widespread irregularities then those changes would have been just as beneficial to tRump’s cause except he shot himself in the pecker by claiming widespread mail-in fraud and to vote in person.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Old_WRX – Nice deflection. I’m not talking about corrupt politicians, I’m talking about election fraud.

        WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?????

        Evidence is also know as corroborated, verified FACTS….

        60 plus judges of which many were appointed by tRump did not see any widespread fraud.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Lou_BC,

          That is a pithy question. Where is the evidence, indeed. Please, don’t get too bent out of shape over my not agreeing with you. It’s really not worth it.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Old_WRX -I’m not bent out of shape but thanks for the concern.

            Oh and where is the evidence?

            A bunch of party faithful signing affidavits isn’t much in the way of evidence.

            I’m sure that one could get a few 100,000 affidavits from flat-earthers saying the earth is flat. It doesn’t make it so.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @Lou:

            This guy isn’t out to make an argument – he’s just trolling. Looking for attention.

            I think that’s true of a great many of the folks who decided to go trash the Capitol too – just a bunch of stupid children who are riled up for the sake of being riled up. And lookie lookie…they got their attention, didn’t they? Not that they actually made any positive changes or proved anything besides how childish and stupid they are.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      FreedMike, Lou_BC,

      “This guy isn’t out to make an argument – he’s just trolling. Looking for attention.”

      No, I’m not looking for an argument. And, you won’t change your opinions based on my opinions. But, I won’t change my opinion based on your opinions, either. It’s ancient history. Trump is gone — that in itself is no big loss. Never cared for him.

      Maybe stop worrying about the election and start worrying about how your guy’s going to perform.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Old_WRX – “And, you won’t change your opinions based on my opinions”

        I change my opinions based upon logic and facts, in other words, critical thinking. If you have both I’m always open to change.
        I’m a moderate centrist. I’m there because I have zero problem leaning left or right of centre.
        It’s never easy to readjust one’s ideological framework but well worth the effort.
        In the case of a “stolen election”, opinion isn’t a consideration. It is either demonstrable by factual evidence or it’s not.

        Where are the facts?

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Lou_BC, FreedMike,

      !. Trump’s out — no big loss

      2. Biden’s in — time will tell.

      3. Election — ancient history.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Currently watching the big show. Thoughts so far:

    a) Our Federal government has an alarming shortage of black SUV’s. [Exercise: Without looking, guess the number of vehicles currently owned or leased by the U.S. Government (excluding military and postal). Now look up the actual figure. Were you high or low?]

    b) I think I figured out why Donald Trump is not allowed at this year’s inauguration – he doesn’t meet the minimum age requirement.

    c) I don’t follow politics very closely, but based on ‘size of crowd on Inauguration Day’ (seems to be a common metric) this guy seems very unpopular?

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      Strong safety protocols are in place, and people have been urged not to attend.

    • 0 avatar
      Peter Gazis

      Toolguy

      This party was invite only, and security was tight.
      My guess is in New York City A-List crowd ( A. Rod, J. Lo, Lady Gaga, the Clinton’s) the Trumps don’t make the cut.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “I think I figured out why Donald Trump is not allowed at this year’s inauguration – he doesn’t meet the minimum age requirement.”

      LOL

      IIRC, he chose not to attend.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      @toolguy:
      “b) I think I figured out why Donald Trump is not allowed at this year’s inauguration – he doesn’t meet the minimum age requirement.”

      Donald Trump was not at the inauguration because he couldn’t face the fact that Biden turned out more voters than he did.

      Real men can react to being bested with civility. Heck, my elementary-school-aged children can react to being bested with civility. Donald Trump’s reaction to being busted was to send a violent mob to ran back congress and overturn the election instead, and then couldn’t even show his face.

      I knew what kind of man he was when all y’all voted him in. But sending the mob was worse than my most cynical predictions.

      Donald Trump’s failure to show up at the inauguration has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with Donald Trump’s character.

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        @Luke42, Donald Trump is not my favorite person in history. And I know it was his choice not to attend, and yes it was childish. But when the Senate Majority Leader (78) and the Speaker of the House (80) are welcoming the oldest President ever elected (78) to the Capitol for the swearing-in, it was just too easy to throw that out there (Trump is 74). And I don’t even dislike old people – I intend to be one someday. :-)

        My favorite old person quote: “With age comes wisdom. But sometimes age comes alone.”

        [I have a kid who voted for Trump and a kid who voted for Biden and a spouse who isn’t saying. I voted third party (in a state which was going hard red regardless), so I get to troll everyone at my dinner table.]

        On point a), no one wants to discuss the motorcade vehicles? Some of those modified Suburbans were pretty schweeeet (but let’s avoid the fender skirts if at all possible). They even snuck some Ford and FCA products in there.

  • avatar
    lstanley

    Related, and important.

    You will see A LOT more dollars going to highly subsidized, mostly dubious, mass transit projects. California trains to nowhere, Springfield monorails, Detroit people movers, Minneapolis transit that goes just about everywhere except where commuters live etc etc etc.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      I’ve heard that France builds transit @ $15M per mile, California $200M

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        slavuta

        “I’ve heard that France builds transit @ $15M per mile, California $200M”

        That’s because Californians have higher standards.

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          California also has earthquakes.

          • 0 avatar
            ToolGuy

            Hmmm….

            “When designed properly, tunnels are some of the safest places to be during an earthquake. From a structural safety standpoint, the tunnel moves uniformly with the ground, in contrast to how surface structures react to earthquakes. Additionally, a large amount of earthquake damage is caused by falling debris, which does not happen inside of tunnels. Some examples:

            1994 Northridge Earthquake: No damage to LA subway tunnels.

            1989 Loma Prieta (Northern California) Earthquake: No damage to tunnels, which were used to transport rescue personnel.

            1985 Mexico City Earthquake: No damage to tunnels, which were used to transport rescue personnel.”

            https://www.boringcompany.com/faq

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            California also has ridiculously high land prices.

            That explains a great deal of this out-migration – housing prices have gone up so much that it’s putting a lot of people in the position of being able to simply “cash out” and move somewhere else. Maybe they are frustrated with things like congestion and taxes, and those are legit frustrations in California, but man…I can work from anywhere there’s working high-speed Internet, and if I could make a six-figure windfall just selling my house and moving to Kansas City, would I? In a heartbeat. So have plenty of other people (like my cousin).

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Show your math that explains that delta between what France pays and what CA is paying.

            I’ll get the popcorn maker.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @ToolGuy:

            Age doesn’t really matter – behavior does. Was Bill Clinton elderly when he decided to lie under oath and get himself impeached? Was Richard Nixon senile when he decided to cover up the Watergate break-in?

            Same with Trump. Age didn’t cause his behavior driven f**kups – his lack of character did. He’s doing the same things he’s always done.

  • avatar
    MrIcky

    My thoughts are that there’s not going to be a lot of direct intervention in the auto industry- he’ll talk alot about plans for 2035, etc.

    But, I think we’ll see increases in gas tax plus an increase in tax on producers and a reduction in the amount of drilling allowed so gas prices will go up. So you’ll indirectly get a push toward more efficient vehicles.

    I know it’s going to happen, I just hope he waits until our current crisis is over. So many economy stressors, swiftly rising fuel prices would really put a damper on recovery. He seems to want to do everything all at once.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      Day One, Baby!!

      https://tinyurl.com/y4jqu3d5

      (climate, pipeline, fuel economy/emissions, oil leases, regulations)

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        Fictional and completely unrelated story:

        https://wbng.com/2021/01/19/gas-prices-going-up-near-you-aaa-says-it-probably-will-continue-to-increase/

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          A lot of it has to do with the economy. People weren’t driving during the worst of the pandemic, and oil prices were depressed. Things are considerably better now. Not surprising that oil prices are going up as a result.

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        Done and done (previous article was the plan, here is the reality):

        https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-inauguration-day-one-d6637de1ce993d272108337c1030b79d

        15 executive actions and two directives on Day One, a record [by far]. While wearing a mask at his desk (also wore a mask in the vehicles today). Man of his word and internally consistent. Well done, Mr. President.

  • avatar
    dwford

    A decrease in US oil producing jobs, with a corresponding increase in overseas child labor precious metal mining jobs, increase in overseas solar panel production jobs, and an increase in overseas wind turbine production jobs – all funded with taxpayer subsidies.

    So we will subsidize foreign workers, while at the same time paying US workers to stay home after we take their jobs away.

  • avatar
    FAHRVERGNUGEN

    Vehicles will have solar panels on their horizontal surfaces and small-diameter wind turbines in tubes running through the vehicle.

  • avatar
    DC Bruce

    Higher petroleum prices (this trend is already happening thanks to supply restrictions imposed by OPEC+) caused by further drilling/fracking restrictions in the U.S.
    More subsidies for mass transit (which increasingly few people will use because of COVID-19, work-from-home and suburbanization of both offices and residences).

    Continuing, if not increasing, subsidies for pure EVs.

    Less likely, but possible: an end to the “light trucks” CAFE loophole that allows heavy, thirsty SUV/CUVs to be built and sold without penalty; a progressive tax on engine displacement and/or engine horsepower.

    • 0 avatar
      PlaysInTraffic

      “Less likely, but possible: an end to the ‘light trucks’ CAFE loophole that allows heavy, thirsty SUV/CUVs to be built and sold without penalty”

      Really? Then what would our “betters” use to get around?

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        Related: I watched the ‘youtube’ live versions of this (no cable here), so no talking heads over the sounds of the motorcade. There were some pretty sweet engine notes during the ‘acceleration’ phase of the ride to the White House.

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      I like all of this DC Bruce. Only I think the demise of the cities is greatly exaggerated. Yes they’re taking a hit due to the COVID but I think that will reverse. Their collapse has been the conservatives’ wet dream for years but the movement of wealth to large urban areas has been a 30 + year trend. A 1.5 year virus will be a blip. Biden and the Democrats no longer need flyover country and thus can focus on these areas more.

      • 0 avatar
        4onthefloor

        No longer needs flyover country? Where do you think the majority of the food you eat comes from? Could it be, wait for it, flyover country? Not a chess player I see, checkers is your game of choice? Look back in history, and learn how castle sieges were ended, the majority of the time, they were starved out, and all the opposing forces didn’t lose a man, could rest up while eating leg of lamb, in full view of the starving castle residents.. They set up their cook stoves upwind from people who haven’t eaten in a few weeks, and out they came. You think the people in the cities hold the power? Those national guardsman sent to the Capitol are worthless if they are starving, as bullets make a poor meal.speaking of guardsman, REPUBLICAN elected officials had to bring them food, as the Democrats, once they were done with them, tossed them aside like a used diaper, but the guardsman learned a valuable lesson that day that will not be forgotten. And isn’t it funny how Sleepy Joe has signed an executive order stopping construction of the border wall because “ walls don’t work” yet they erected a razor wire topped fence around the Capitol because the snowflakes “didn’t feel safe” well we don’t feel safe from the uneducated criminals, and ms 13 members either. Hypocrites, every last GD one of them! So keep thinking Biden doesn’t need flyover country because if the farmers get aggravated, and decide to take the hit and burn all their fields, and the cattlemen slaughter all their cows you will be starving bro, and it will happen within a month. Bit worry not, we have some big plans for the Democrats, and not a shot will be fired. Mmmmmm, good!

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @4onthefloor – I’m betting he was talking about votes. If you look at swing states, Democrats won in the urban centre’s and lost rurally.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          4onthefloor

          This is my exact suggestion. Stop supplying food to the cities.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “Stop supplying food to the cities.”

            Exactly who is going to stop supplying food to cities? The farmers that were run out of business by the imbecile-in-chief’s impotent trade policies or the large agribusinesses that care more about profits than politics?

  • avatar
    jkross22

    “no one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change,” if I’m elected – Joe Biden, June 2019 speech to wealthy donors at the Carlyle Hotel in Manhattan.

    I’d take him at his word. It’s what he’s been all about over the last 50 years. No fundamental change.

    The problem is that we need fundamental change. So here we are.

    As for autos, nothing will fundamentally change.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      I suspect you’re correct on all that. But you never know – sometimes the biggest game changers are people you’d never expect. Examples: Red-baiter Nixon establishes diplomatic relations with China, FDR the aristocrat authors the New Deal, and dyed-in-the-wool bigot LBJ signs all the Civil Rights Acts into law.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        Mike, I’d love to be wrong. Unfortunately, the best predictor we have of future behavior is past behavior, and based on that, my hope-o-meter isn’t registering much with JB.

        btw, you left out one of the best game changers in the political biz: Teddy Roosevelt breaking up JP Morgan’s railroad monopoly. Morgan was Teddy’s friend and did it anyway. Brass balls. Can you imagine Biden or Trump having the courage to break up a large credit card company, or land development company or, I don’t know, say Google, Facebook or Twitter?

        Courage isn’t a trait we value in politicians.

    • 0 avatar
      Dan

      I’d take him at his word too, the wealthy donors to whom he was speaking will continue to do just fine. Ten million bucks in the market and the social costs of progressive lunacy become academic because they’re being inflicted on somebody else.

      Regular people buying sub $70,000 cars, guess what? You’re somebody else.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      One reason they have the ex-Presidents at the inauguration is so that you the voter can think back to all the promises each of them made, and how many were kept.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        I don’t know if it’s really fair to call them “promises.” C’mon, don’t tell me anyone really expected any of them to make the great changes they advertised, do they?

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          “if you vote for me, I’ll do this”

          The word ‘promise’ wasn’t used, but it’s inferred.

          To the point, Biden promised to have the US re-enter the Paris Climate Accord his first day, and he indeed put the wheels in motion to do that.

          But when he’s telling his rich benefactors nothing will change, we should believe that, too.

        • 0 avatar
          Nick_515

          tRump did. he built the wall, and made Mexico pay for it to boot.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Nick, What percentage of the wall is complete?

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @jkross and @freedmike; Thanks for those comments. As some have been trying to say, Biden is primarily an old time, old school politician. What Boards of Directors used to call ‘a safe hand on the tiller’. Someone who will try to steer the ship of state into calmer waters.

            Not some communist, or some protector of an international pedophile cabal, as some of the supporters of the previous POTUS kept tweeting. And not a threat to American democracy.

            As for past presidents, Teddy Roosevelt is unfortunately too often ignored and overlooked in the modern age.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Arthur, Biden’s quote – Nothing will fundamentally change – isn’t the same as a steady hand at the tiller. Biden’s made clear what he’ll do. He’s going to punt on necessary changes and will enrich those already at the table. That’s not a steady hand. That’s government by corporate checkbook.

            As for past presidents, it seems the last time voters elected a courageous president ended in the 60s. It’s been a congo line of one disappointment after another since then, with Congress being even worse.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @JK: Nothing will fundamentally change means that despite the hateful rhetoric from the right, Biden is not a ‘communist’. It is a shame that so many Americans do not know what communism, socialism, social democracy and liberalism each mean. They are fundamentally different.

            A steady hand at the tiller, means a return to ‘normalcy’.

            Biden is no ‘hero’. He will not challenge the traditional American status quo. He will try to ‘play nice’ with the Republicans and the media.

            Gerald Ford was rendered unelectable due to his pardoning of Nixon. Hopefully the slew of pardons Trump issued to his friends will ensure the same for him.

            As for American politicians who did radically challenge the status quo, the last popular one was not even elected, yet he managed to get assassinated. RFK.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Arthur, Your explanation of Biden’s quote makes no sense considering the audience with whom he was speaking. You seem focused on Biden’s accusers saying he’s a communist, socialist, etc. I think you’re missing the broader point.

            The idea that Biden is any of that noise is so absurd it’s not worth acknowledging. Ironically, JB is quite committed to capitalism so long as it benefits his family and his bank account.

            Business as usual, indeed.

            My hope is that his knowledge of government functions help speed up vaccine distro and financial help to those being crushed by our COVID response.

            Do those things and not start a war and he’ll have a successful presidency.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @JK it makes perfect sense. A return to ‘normalcy’. A return to ‘expected behaviours’ from the White House. The ‘establishment’ left intact.

  • avatar
    Superdessucke

    If he reverses the size of pick ’em up trucks and SUVs with stricter fuel economy mandates, I have no problem with that whatsoever, particularly if that comes with renewed emphasis on public transportation in urban areas. Since that’s his voter base, I fully expect to see that.

    I think gasoline is too cheap in the United States. I expect to see it go up and again no issue. Where I would have an issue is if we increase reliance on foreign oil or Chinese industry to help a conversion to the greener economy I expect to see. That should be, needs to be, done with American workers.

  • avatar
    Imagefont

    I for one am quite proud of our new president. I see the usual trolls here trying hard to spread misinformation and nonsense, which seems to be their only purpose in life. They are, as Trump would say, “sad”. And I’m looking forward to the total absence of the “excrement” show that has been our dysfunctional government for the last four years. I couldn’t care less what Biden himself means for the car industry – he’s not directly concerned either since he’s on another level. If your grass turns brown or your car backfires – it’s not his doing people, blame Obama if you must. I’m looking forward to good governance and I think Biden will be pragmatic. And I’m looking forward to the total absence of Trump Toilet Twitter Tantrums.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @Imagefont – many will be very happy not being concerned about the batsh!t crazy things the President just tweeted or said.
      I’m at an age where boring is good, real good.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @Lou_BC–I as well welcome boring instead of the constant turmoil which we got with a reality star. As for EVs we are transitioning from ICE to EVs regardless of who we have as President. Technology will improve and batteries will be small, less expensive, and with more range. Infrastructure will eventually build up to support EVs. This will not happen overnight but just like the automobile replacing horses we will transition. There were many that dreaded the horseless carriage and wanted to hold onto their horses (literally). There were many decades ago that dreaded computers and feared they would eliminate jobs. Change is difficult but change is the one thing that is constant. I would rather be around to see change than to not be around and not be a part of change.

    One could always live like the Amish if they really don’t like change. No electricity and no vehicles just horses and carriages and candles.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Where I work there is a plan to go “paperless”. I was at one meeting and the “experts” said that my Health Authority would have to increase clerical staff positions by 40% to perform all of the data entry once up and running. The saving are supposed to come with reducing medication and treatment errors.

  • avatar
    jimmyy

    Here is what is comming.

    1) A massive recession;

    2) White male discrimination. Just several days ago, some corporations announced they would promote people “with the right racial makup” who do not have college education into jobs that require college educations just to make things right.

    3) Massive 3rd world inflation.

    4) The media will try to blame Trump.

    5) Skyrocketing crime.

    6) People will flock to Trump in 2024, and most states will have fixed their election sytem so Biden can’t cheat his way to a second term.

    When this comes true, I will make sure everyone remembers my post.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      jimmyy,

      1) A given.

      2) Been happening for many years already, but will continue to worsen. This form of bigotry/racism is referred to as “antiracism.” Hiring/promotion practices based on identity politics is known as corporate suicide.

      3) I’m too ignorant on the subject to say anything worhtwhile.

      4) Happening. Trump = Emmanual Goldstein.

      5) Happening.

      6) No idea.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Old_WRX

        “Emmanual Goldstein.” <-I like it!

        #1 -bring it on! If sleepy Joe will preside over recession – this is how he will be remembered and Trump will be remembered as economic genius. Stock market will fall and I will reinvest again. I think, right now is a speculation time. It will go up some more, bring investors and then ka-bum. Car manufacturers will see their record sales in dreams for decades to come.

        #3 – definitely. America pulls everyone down. Do you know who hates O'bama in the old world – investors. His policies of bad dollar made investing hard if not possible. Basically, his economic policies affected everyone and everywhere. In 2019 you could go to Europe and $$ would be appreciated. But right now, nobody wants it.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      6. Biden will not be around for 2nd term. Remember of Tecumseh’s Curse. Sleepy Joe election was saving for Trump.

      2. “companies listed on Nasdaq’s U.S. exchange to publicly disclose consistent, transparent diversity statistics regarding their board of directors. Additionally, the rules would require most Nasdaq-listed companies to have, or explain why they do not have, at least two diverse directors, including one who self-identifies as female and one who self-identifies as either an underrepresented minority1 or LGBTQ+. Foreign companies and smaller reporting companies would have additional flexibility in satisfying this requirement with two female directors.”

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        @slavuta Exactly where are these rules stating that a NASDAQ listed company has to “publicly disclose consistent, transparent diversity statistics regarding their board of directors”? Also, where are these “rules” that require; never mind why the word most is used, NASDAQ listed companies to “have, at least two diverse directors, including one who self-identifies as female and one who self-identifies as either an underrepresented minority1 or LGBTQ+”? Do these NASDAQ “rules” also state how seating should be assigned on the corporate jet?

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          el scotto,

          https://ir.nasdaq.com/news-releases/news-release-details/nasdaq-advance-diversity-through-new-proposed-listing

          you’re welcome

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          el scotto,

          more news

          “BlackRock Inc., the world’s largest asset manager, plans to next year push companies for greater ethnic and gender diversity for their boards and workforces, and says it will vote against directors who fail to act.”

          https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/blackrock-plans-to-push-companies-on-racial-diversity-in-2021

          is this enough already?

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      1. Perhaps. There are those who predict a boom once the world is vaccinated. I believe the term is ” pent up demand.”
      2. Ha ha ha. Citations required. At least three.
      3. Evidence? Rationale? Citations required.
      4. If it was his mistake, yes. a. He did increase government debt with tax cuts. b. The US pandemic response under his watch was pathetic. c. He damaged virtually every international relationship with allies.
      5. Well,maybe. tRump has done a great job of stirring up domestic white supremacist terrorists.
      6. That is yet to be seen. An impeachment conviction will prevent him from running again. Ending up in jail or bankrupt won’t help his chances either.
      And if none of your predictions come true, we probably won’t remember how lame those predictions were.

    • 0 avatar
      el scotto

      @jimmy
      1. No. Those who are working are fairly recession-proof and have pent-up demand. No reason to buy new things, can’t show them off and absolutely zero desire to travel until Covid is under control. To really blow a dog whistle most of the recession proof jobs are in large cities. I want a craft Manhattan cocktail (or 3) and a grass-fed steak. I’m not only one ready to spend money.
      2. Again No. Business people are some of the most ruthless people on earth. Promoting unqualified people will cost them money. That ain’t gonna happen. BTW, which companies are doing this? Not a peep iut of Bloomberg or the WSJ. Sorry bout the Bloomberg dog whistle.
      3. Besides “Jeepers” Where will this “inflation occur and to what extent.
      4. It’s just fricking easy. When white supremacists and conspiracy theorists name you as their inspiration/leader it’s an easy story for a reporter.
      5. Where’s your evidence? and what is your definition of “skyrocketing”
      6. It won’t really matter if he’s impeached or even prosecuted for sedition. A video of a sea of red MAGA hats storming the capitol doom any political ambitious he has. Before this is all done anyone wearing a MAGA hat might be judged an idiot. Reference pizzagate. The pizza place doesn’t have a basement.
      No one will remember your post. This isn’t a personal insult, no one here remembers other peoples posts. An obscure blog isn’t the place to get 15 minutes of fame.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    We will see what will happen but I prefer Biden to the Benito Mussolini we had that incites mob rule. There is a limit to the power a President. Not having a President that incites an insurrection is better. If we get Trump in 2024 then you can call an end to our country as we know it. I would like to see other Republicans that were more conservative, less volatile, and younger run for President.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      I think Trump was definitely going to run in 2024. Then January 6th happened. People can call the Capitol riot whatever they want, but I think this much is VERY clear, even to most Republicans: the whole debacle is on Trump. At a bare minimum, even setting the whole “inciting a riot to stage a coup” argument aside, the guy obviously crapped the bed. What he did was MONUMENTALLY irresponsible…and he has no one to blame but himself. That’s why he slunk off yesterday.

      Is he going away? No. But I don’t think his political career is coming back from that self-inflicted wound – the GOP doesn’t want him back. If he does stage comeback, it would be as a third party candidate.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        Indeed. Trump’s a terrible person. Everything else cascades down from that unavoidable truth.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        I’m starting to believe that there’ll be enough senate GOP voting to impeach. Mitch McConnell is already leaning that way. I don’t think they want him lurking around messing things up like he did with Georgia. He’s damaged goods. The permanent Twitter ban will severely muzzle him.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I don’t have a crystal ball but my sincere hope is whatever intelligent people that are left realize Twitter is stupid, quite juvenile, and rejoin the adult world.

          I created a Twitter account in 2009 for my group and I to post stuff on our trip to Ireland. Hilariously, it is still active and it seems we posted about twenty things to it. I thought then, “m’eh”, and still do. We could have done this with a BBS twenty five years ago. Sure this has videos/pics which we couldn’t have done, but still “m’eh”. Yet this sh!tty concept is worth billions and has millions reading it? Really? Clown world.

          Turn it all off, take it all down for a month. We can play “its the 80s” and it will be fun. Let the mind warping subside for just a bit and see if we can put the “human” back in humanity. What’s the alternative? OMG I just have to type my insipid thoughts on hair dye on my GameBoy so someone can read about it in Macau?

          President Trump could not have happened without these stupid apps, in 2016 they had the main State Media completely locked up but they didn’t realize this “new media” wasn’t secured. Proles got enthusiastic then rallied, and boom (assuming the incapacitated Hillary theory isn’t true). Then they started deleting free speech they didn’t like and highlighting speech they did, because they realized what happened then. Doing so of course makes them editors but the funny thing is when you have the $500/hr lawyers on retainer you’d be surprised what you can do.

          Simple solution: shut it all down.

        • 0 avatar
          4onthefloor

          Hey Lou,
          TDS much? You haven’t a clue man! Impeachment is used to remove a
          SITTING PRESIDENT! NOT FOR REVENGE! Apparently, you like to comment on things you know nothing about, and I suggest you read and comprehend our Constitution before you comment further. This impeachment is going nowhere, and from what I’ve read the desire to impeach, without a fair trial is starting to diminish rapidly. Remember Trump said: GO PEACEFULLY DOWN TO THE CAPITAL AMD MAKE YOUR VOICES, THATS VOICES LOU, HEARD. But I guess you, and a lot of others on here have magically gained “ minority report” powers, and can read his mind and tell us what he was thinking. I can only go by the words spoken because I apparently wasn’t issued your power to read minds like you. And while we are at it, knock it off with the tRump BS there is an awful lot I know and could say about the Trudeaus, both of them, and it won’t be pretty. I can assure you, it will have a lot more impact than your unimaginative one word insults. We can insult him, you can’t. It’s an American thing. I’ve read many of you posts, you’re better than that!
          Have a good one!

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @4onthefloor. Read your Constitution. It is perfectly legal to try and impeach an (the) ex-President.

            Which is why it is being introduced into the Senate.

            And there are reasons for it. Such as removing many of the perks an ex-president has, and preventing them from running for office again.

          • 0 avatar
            4onthefloor

            Hey Arthur ,
            I suggest read ing the constitution, but you obviously don’t practice what you preach. The constitution say: impeachment is solely to remove THE PRESIDENT for high crimes or misdemeanors. Last time I checked,
            TRUMP IS NO LONGER THE PRESIDENT! Words matter, something you don’t seem to understand. Can your hate, and don’t just read. It’s called reading comprehension! You might have the reading part correct, it’s the comprehension part that apparently confuses you.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @4onthefloor – Someone needs to back off on the caffeinated beverages before hitting the keyboard.

            You can’t impeach an ex-president but the vote to impeach occurred while he was still president. Due process entitles tRump to a trial. He can no longer be removed from office but he can be barred from ever holding office again.

            You have my permission to ridicule Trudeau. It doesn’t offend me in any way, shape or form.

      • 0 avatar
        4onthefloor

        He won’t be running as a Republican. He will run as a candidate for his Patriot party, and the Republicans will lose 75 million voters overnight. Truth.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    I am kinda disappointed with Trump now. He was about to develop water supplies in California. But Joe decided to fix it

    “the Presidential Memorandum of October 19, 2018 (Promoting the Reliable Supply and Delivery of Water in the West), and the Presidential Memorandum of February 19, 2020 (Developing and Delivering More Water Supplies in California), are hereby revoked. “

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      slavuta,

      “are hereby revoked.”

      That’s called “democracy.” Rule by presidential fiat (no, not the car).

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Old_WRX,

        if people would go to gov sites and read info instead of listening the CNN panels, they would see a different picture of the country.

        So, 1776 project is bad for Biden… May be we should revoke American victory in Revolutionary war and call England here to finally bring some proper order.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          slavuta,

          “call England here to finally bring some proper order”

          I’m not sure England would want the colonies back.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          slavuta,

          I think I read somewhere that insistence on truth, logic, punctuality and math are all part of the dreaded disease “whiteness.” And, insistence on electric cars is part of the disease “greenness.”

          • 0 avatar
            ToolGuy

            @Old_WRX, whoa, big whoa.

            Walk upstairs with me and I’ll show you a kid who isn’t punctual and another kid who is bad at math. (Zero correlation with skin tone.)

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “I think I read somewhere that insistence on truth, logic, punctuality and math are all part of the dreaded disease “whiteness.””

            @Old_WRX – I’m assuming you are white.

            If you ACTUALLY insist on truth and logic, you would have NEVER said that. Punctuality or math skills aren’t linked to whiteness either.

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          @slavuta,

          First picture here – do I see red coats?

          https://tinyurl.com/yyoyt283

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      ToolGuy,

      “whoa, big whoa.”

      Agree with you 100%. It has nothing to do with race. I was only referring to some of the rather bizarre stuff that has been put out there by people who call themselves SJW’s. They are so caught up in the obviously false idea that everything depends on race, gender, etc. The truth is that all these things cut across demographic boundaries. People should be judged as individuals.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Lou_BC,

      “I’m assuming you are white”

      Yes, but that is not in the least what this is about. Several months ago the Smithsonian Institute African American museum put up a graphic identifying traits that they said typify “whiteness.” It was extremely insulting to non-whites because it ascribed traits such as “rugged individualism,” “reliance on the scientific method,” “nuclear family,” etc. to “whiteness.” Basically all the traits that a person needs to be successful. Fortunately they have since taken it down.

      “https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/17/smithsonian-african-american-museum-remove-whitene/”

      I’m surprised you guys hadn’t heard about this — it was all over the place for a while. I assumed everyone would have heard about this by now. If I caused offense then I am sorry; that was not my intention.

    • 0 avatar
      4onthefloor

      It’s hard to come up with water when everyone is using it. By the time it gets to Baja, it’s a trickle.

  • avatar
    PandaBear

    See, this is why the auto industry wise up and make sure they build enough CAFE in their products just in case GOP cannot swing them into FREEDOM. The same reason Trump’s executive orders have done enough to scare businesses from relying solely on China.

    What a mess of politics we have.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Hopefully Trump won’t come back. January 6, his denial and mishandling of Covid-19 in the beginning, his mishandling of the Black Lives Matter including the photo op holding a Bible,and his buddy buddy Putin and Kim Jong-un. Maybe Trump will now go back to reality tv.

    As for the auto industry they have to plan for stricter CAFE and still be able to sell the profitable pickups, suvs, and crossovers which make it harder to meet CAFE. It’s understandable auto makers are jumping on the EV bandwagon. There is only so much that can be done with ICE with small turbo I3s and I4s and cvts and 8 to 10 speed auto transmission. Not too much low hanging fruit is left for ICE.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      “Maybe Trump will now go back to reality tv. ”

      I hope, you will get to reality of life.

      Do you have any evidence that
      1. Trump “mishandled Covid-19”
      2. Putin is Trump’s buddy
      3. Trump is buddy with Kim Jong-un
      ???????

      1. Show me 1 country that did not “mishandled” COVID? Europe is on fire with all the lock-downs and mask mandates. Trump had better intuition than Dr. Fauci
      2. Trump sanctioned more Russian companies than ever before. Russian dossier on the other hand was totally fabricated.
      3. Trump did a great job pacifying Kim. When did Kim let his last rocket loose?

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Do you have any evidence that
        1. Trump “mishandled Covid-19″

        The death toll in the USA is the worst in the world. Per capita it is considerably worse than in Canada.

        You forgot the time he talked about bleach, a bright light in the body, or his disregard for masks.

        I’m not going to bother with the other points.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    Oh Lordy, you think Word Press could figure out how to put emojis after each comment. Or maybe not, the trolls would take pride in the amount of disapproval they created. I’m sure TTAC would get 1/3 a cent or such for each thumbs up/thumbs down.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Trump spent at least 2 month denying the severity of Covid-19 valuable time lost.

    Trump didn’t pacify Kim. Kim is still a threat.

    Trump bragged about his great relationship with Putin but didn’t call Putin out on Russia’s interference with our elections and ignored any human rights violations. Trump just took Putin’s word.

    After January 6 even many Republicans don’t want him back. January 6 was all too real. Trump should be banned from holding any public office he is dangerous. If you really miss dictatorships then go to Russia or North Korea.

    Trump is gone for now and hopefully he will not come back.

    As for Biden we will see what effect he will have on the auto industry but I doubt Biden plans on destroying the auto industry. Biden is well aware of the number of jobs the auto industry provides.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      The right has definitely turned on Biden’s predecessor. Here’s a starkly honest take on him from the National Review.

      https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/witless-ape-rides-helicopter/

      Now hopefully we can get back to discussing cars.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Jeff,

      you understand NOTHING about how world works!

      “Trump bragged about his great relationship with Putin ”

      “Nixon tells Brezhnev that their relationship is the “key” that could “change the world.”
      https://www.rferl.org/a/us-russia-nixon-brezhnev/25083345.html

      Moral of the story: presidents have personal relationships but it does not mean they “give away things”. The only one I know is Gorbachev. When James Baker offered to put deal on the paper, Gorbachev said, “we’re friends and I trust you”. And everything bad that is happening between West and Russia today is result of that “trust”

      “but didn’t call Putin out on Russia’s interference with our elections ”

      China and Soros own US elections. Saying that Russia can affect US elections today is being totally delusional. When Bloomberg spends $1B, And each of big tech as much or more. This is like beating around the bush.

      “and ignored any human rights violations. Trump just took Putin’s word.”
      Oh, look who is talking! BLM, cops with the knee on the neck, shooting in the back. Russian police don’t shoot into the back of fleeing criminals.
      Define, what is your problem with human rights in Russia? What are you talking about? Do you know conditions at the factory where your iPhone was made? Or do you know why Japan has the highest suicide rate?

      “After January 6 even many Republicans don’t want him back.”
      So what. They fear their butts on fire? Those swamp creatures who are ok with business as usual. There will not be business as usual. Trump opened road into the future

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        slavuta,

        “you understand NOTHING about how world works!”

        I remember years ago my older brother told me he had a friend who had lived in a fascist country and in a communist country. He told my brother that the US had the most pervasive propaganda machine he had ever seen. It’s almost impossible to win an argument against so many manufactured “truths.” They will only begin to see it when it starts directly impacting their own lives — and maybe not even then.

        If you put a frog in a pan of cold water and then start heating it the frog will just stay in the pot until it dies from the heat.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          your brother’s friend was right. People who experienced it, can quickly tell. My Lithuanian friend told me 5 years back that he does not see the difference between US ans USSR. The rhetoric different but the actuality is the same.
          BTW, US started propaganda before Russia. US in 2014 and Russia in 2018. you know what the difference is –
          in USSR we had official line – build socialism, 1 party system, newspaper Pravda is propaganda department of the central party committee (on the first page next to the title), capitalism is bad, Communist party is brain, honesty and integrity…

          But in US, they say, this is un-american, this is american, free press, land of free, blah blah… and do same thing

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            “US in 2014”

            Oh, no, no. It started way before that. Can’t say exactly when, but at least as early as 2001. The official line here is that there is no official line — a constantly moving target.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Correction to the above ^^^^

          US in 1914 and Russia in 1918

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX

          “It’s almost impossible to win an argument against so many manufactured “truths.””

          Check this out.

          “CNN is facing backlash for reporting on a debunked vaccine narrative at least 47 times. …. [CNN] pushed its so-called “scoop” that Biden inherited “no vaccine distribution plan from the Trump administration” and had to “start from scratch.”
          Later that day, Dr. Anthony Fauci disputed those reports during a press briefing at the White House. He cited extensive distribution activity started by President Trump.”

          But if you listen to CNN, you have your own truth. As you pointed out.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            Speaking of own truth, maybe you can decipher this article for me. I can’t figure what they’re trying to say for the life of me.

            “https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/22/us/portland-riot-protesters-charged/index.html”

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX,

          “maybe you can decipher this article for me”

          Many journalists are incompetent and complacent. For example, the chief NYT correspondent in Moscow doesn’t speak Russian. How they are going to cover? – They will not! They need to produce propaganda, for this, no need to speak Russian and understand culture. Or, they send journalists into Ukraine, but they don’t speak Ukrainian, only Russian. But in Ukraine there are new laws about the language. You must not speak Russian anywhere outside your house. How do you like that law? Thanks God, I left that trash can early.

          This article seem keep pushing “America is racist” propaganda. But let me tell you, more they act like this, more people become racist. I talk to people. I’ve heard a lot of “now I am looking at these people with ‘suspicion\'”. When you accuse a lot of people of what they are not, expect strong resistance. Remember, when companies
          stopped hiring women because #metoo? Yes, it happened.

          Watch Russia on Jan 23rd. You might see how to take care of violent protestors.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            “This article seem keep pushing “America is racist” propaganda.”

            I am so sick of them pushing this junk about racism is everywhere. They pretend they are the good guys who are trying to root out “systemic racism.” But, they aren’t the good guys and all they’re really doing is making things worse. I’m old enough to remember the times before the civil rights movement of blacks in this country. Sometimes when I think about it I am amazed how things have changed. When I was young whites lived here and blacks lived there, period. Now, I live in a neighborhood where there are whites, blacks, Indians and other Asians. We all just live here and it isn’t a problem. To hear these SJW’s talk you’d think we were at each others’ throats constantly. But, it just isn’t so.

  • avatar
    don1967

    The Biden years will help the auto industry berschmvrple. And the.. the thing. C’mon man!

  • avatar
    4onthefloor

    What I really want to see, is Biden trying to take Trump “ behind the gym” . One punch from Trump, and Biden would be driven into the ground like a nail, with only his hair plugs sticking above the Turf, followed by a muffled c’mon man! He’s a loser, a bully, a racist and a misogynist. And he will keel over shortly. Then we impeach Harris after we win the senate back, due to voter remorse Won’t be hard to do, and I’ll be back here to rub it in a little when it happens. Trumps base isn’t going anywhere!

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “Trumps base isn’t going anywhere!”

      True.

      They are lost without Twitter and Parler. Oh and with all those barriers and checkpoints around the capital…

      QAnon is also in shambles. The second coming of tRump did not occur so their fantasy world is collapsing.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        I’ll leave twitter to you. I never used this. There is telegram, developed by a russian and does not depend on US infrastructure.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Lou_BC

        you think you won… when due to McCarthyism Jews were kicked out from Hollywood, they organized television.
        Right will have the last laugh. All you need to do is let left to run things for awhile. Now look to Europe, Russia, Brazil. right is taking over the world. America is 90 years behind. I don’t understand, why do we need to go through this experiment if other countries already tried it and now return to normalcy.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          slavuta,

          “why do we need to go through this experiment if other countries already tried it”

          Do you really expect anyone to learn from these examples?:-)

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “Lou_BC -you think you won”

          Wow, thanks for giving me all the credit for tRump’s loss along with the Repubs losses in both the House and Senate.

          “Jews were kicked out from Hollywood, they organized television”

          Hmmmm……

          ‘Jews will not replace us’ (Charlottesville)

          Are you a speech writer for racist white supremacists?

          Which troll farm slavuto are you?
          “Jews shall not replace us”

          “Right will have the last laugh.”

          You mean like… riiiggghhtttt.

  • avatar
    4onthefloor

    And what’s with Nancy Pelosi’s wild hand gestures? Did she attend the Joe Cocker school of the performing arts too?
    She’s another one slated for removal soon, if she doesn’t kick the bucket first.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @slavuta–I understand that Trump was considering a military coup to stay in power. Regardless of party any leader that espouses a coup to stay in power is dangerous. My ancestors came to this country and fought as Patriots in the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. If you really don’t like free elections then you can always move to a country without them. I will take an imperfect President that has been elected by the majority over a President that tries to maintain power under a military coup. I never in my lifetime ever remember a President considering seizing power against the will of the majority. Maybe you like strong men who will maintain power at all costs.

    Trump is a narcissist who thinks he is entitled to power and never admits that he is wrong. Regardless of party or politics Trump is dangerous. I have disagreed with many of our past Presidents but I always thought for the most part that they put the United States above their own interests. Trump never respected the Office of the President and conducted himself in a manner not becoming of a President. During Trump’s Presidency I considered moving to another country. Any President that states he could shoot people in Times Square and people would still support him is dangerous. No President has ever said that. Another 4 years of a narcissist egomaniac probably would have been the end of the United States of America. I don’t want to live in a dictatorship.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Trump specifically said that he could shoot people and still be supported. Trump denies saying many of the things like this even though he is on video saying such things. Maybe he doesn’t mean it but should anyone in a position of leadership say that? Trump also stated that he would be with the crowds who stormed the Capitol and encouraged them to do just that. Trump decided not to join them.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @4onthefloor–Trump never said “go to the Capitol peacefully.” He said go to the Capitol. There is nothing peaceful about Trump. Glad he is gone and hopefully he will disappear into reality tv along with the Kardashians.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      you’re lying.

      Trump said, “where you will peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard”

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        It will be very damning to tRump’s case when they start reading statements made by arrested protesters at his trial.

        The whole “incite the riot” case starts with him lying about a stolen election.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Lou_BC,

          “It will be very damning to tRump’s case”

          I’m lost here. What are these people going to say that would be damning to Trump? Seriously, I don’t understand what you mean.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Old_WRX

            Let dreamer dream. Due to high technology, it is easy to establish that police started to report incidents at capitol before Trump even ended his speech.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Old_WRX – Simple, arrested rioters are telling law enforcement that they were just doing what tRump wanted them to do. It is damaging to tRump’s defense. It makes it much harder for him to claim that he did nothing to incite the riot when rioter’s are claiming the opposite.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        He did not say “go peacefully”.

        “So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… The Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

        Donald Trump: (01:13:19)
        So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I want to thank you all. God bless you and God bless America. Thank you all for being here, this is incredible. Thank you very much. Thank you.”

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      slavuta,

      “police started to report incidents at capitol before Trump even ended his speech.”

      You can’t draw any conclusions from that. tRuMp, the evil one, can warp time at will.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Lou_BC,

      “???”

      You’d call it conspiracy theory. A silly expression. As if the rich and powerful hadn’t conspired throughout known history…

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        tRump started claiming that the only way he could loose was with a rigged election. That started months before the election. The only conspiracy theory in question were one’s he initiated.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @Lou_BC–Agree. Some of the commenters on this article have reverted to calling me and others lyers. What Trump did was indefensible and dangerous and agree that many of Trump supporters said they were doing what Trump wanted them to do. Trump has already been Impeached by Congress it is the Senate that will convict or not convict Trump. If Trump is convicted by the Senate then he would not be allowed to run for public office. 2/3rds vote is needed in the Senate to convict Trump.

    Trump’s words “Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we’re going to have to fight much harder. …

    “We’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them, because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.”

    Those rioters took those words of Trump’s as a command.

    Any President regardless of party or regardless of cause that would say that is inciting a riot. Even if this was a Green initiative, Black Lives Matter, or any other cause it is still wrong.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @Jeff S – They actually believe that the truth is the lie.
      They’ve been fed lies for over 4 years. Social media allowed them to access the only message they WANTED to hear. Faux News opinion hosts and other’s in that swamp also fed them the message they WANTED to hear. Humans don’t look for truth, they look for validation. It’s very easy to exploit that fact.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Lou_BC,

        “Social media allowed them to access the only message they WANTED to hear.”

        If by social media you mean twitter, parler, facebook and things of that ilk — I never touch them.

        This year there have been a lot of messages that I didn’t want to hear. But, reality doesn’t much conform to ones wishes and I have had to make some major adjustments. At the beginning of 2020 I would have called myself a Democrat. Now, I find myself without a party. The Democrats have sold themselves lock, stock and barrel to big business. The Republican point of view I never could stand. I wish there were something truly new, and about more than the few tying to make all power and all money theirs. Crony capitalism is no good, and the socialist/communist leanings of the left have proven time and time again to be no good. Now, if Tulsi Gabbard had gotten into the Whitehouse I might think something good could come out of it…

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX

          Delusion is high. Trump is playing golf and capitol people are in jail. But Portland, Seattle and Denver are still being destroyed.

          I am glad I see “We don’t want Biden” banners and AK47 next to it.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            LOL…”delusion is high”. Yeah, and you’re a prime example. To wit: “Denver is being destroyed”? Funny, I live here, and aside from the Broncos’ season, absolutely NOTHING here is getting destroyed. We’re fine, thanks.

            Stop lying.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            Poor people in Portland and Seattle. They are really f!_!cked. It’s interesting that they are turning on Biden so soon. Maybe, the plan is to oust him and install his VP.

            You have to remember that if it disagrees with the left it’s “lies” or “conspiracy theory.” Personally I don’t care for either side right now. Call me crazy, but I’d really like a little bit of sanity instead of this bizarre mess.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @Old_WRX–I was a Republican for years and left the party. I am now a Democrat but as you stated neither party represents most of us. I would like to see third parties that were more representative of those of us that are moderates. The only way to get big money out of politics is to have public funding of elections but unfortunately both Republicans and Democrats for the most part are being feed by the big money and do not want to give it up.

  • avatar
    GoNavy99

    What could this thread be other than a bunch of butthurt voters upset that their guy didn’t win? I get it – it will be an apocalypse for the things you love and (apparently) your entire way of life at the hands of your sworn enemy, who may or may not actually just be your next door neighbor.

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