Amid Losses, Daimler Rethinks North American-made Sedans

@Old_WRX - it isn't wrong to question scientists but it doesn't make much sense to ignore their recommendations. We have people searching for ANY piece of information that aligns with their predetermined world view. People don't search for the truth, they search of validation. That's called "confirmational bias". The better educated one becomes, the less likely one is to fall into that trap. The majority of medical experts have similar opinions on COVID-19, Climate change, or what ever issue you care to consider.

@Lou_BC, "People don’t search for the truth, they search of validation." Very true. This is why people tend to stick to media outlets that they are comfortable with. One of my favorite sites for info is a real b*tch because it features stories that flat out contradict each other. The site is not going to decide for you. I have yet to conclude whether this CV thing is a real threat or not. I have read many studies on it. The one thing I can say for sure is there are many who say it is and many who say it isn't. But, the MSM is only reporting the one side. And, meanwhile I'm playing along as far as the mask, etc. stuff goes. On the other hand, I have seen two studies about how far the aerosols from human breathing/cough/sneeze can travel. The first was many years ago and their number was thirty feet. I saw one in the last few months that said 23 to 27 feet. Something in the range of 20 to 30 feet makes sense to me. No study I've seen says that 6 feet is adequate.

@Old_WRX - "I have yet to conclude whether this CV thing is a real threat or not.I have read many studies on it.The one thing I can say for sure is there are many who say it is and many who say it isn’t." Have you read actual scientific/medical studies or abstracts? what are the confidence limits? What's the sample sizes? What are the assessment parameters? Peer reviewed? Or have you read articles, comments, et al from journalists or individuals posting their opinions? Who? Where are their abstracts, studies? The majority of the scientific/medical community sees it as a real threat. It is a real threat. All indications are that it is a bigger threat in "mature" societies. Health care extends people's ages and technology(mechanical devices, processed food etc.) increases the incidence of obesity and diabetes. Technology (i.e. transit, mobility) also fosters spread. At least 1/2 of the USA population falls into a risk category. In Africa,the average age is 22 years old with low obesity, low diabetes,and very few people living long lives. the death rates have been lower than expected.

@Old_WRX Have you seen the latest... "Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump · 2h We are United in our effort to defeat the Invisible China Virus, and many people say that it is Patriotic to wear a face mask when you can’t socially distance. There is nobody more Patriotic than me, your favorite President!" Your king has spoken. Hahahahaha!

@Lou_BC, "Have you read actual scientific/medical studies or abstracts? what are the confidence limits? What’s the sample sizes? What are the assessment parameters? Peer reviewed? " Here's one of those for you : https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387 Yes, the articles I have read are not junk pieces. And, they do frequently disagree. But, I see no reason to pursue this discussion. So, I will conclude with a quote from Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Though I will not judge as harshly as Franklin. I don't consider it my place to judge what people do or don't deserve.

@Lie2me "We are United in our effort to defeat the Invisible China Virus" Nope. All of the evidence points to the contrary. "and many people say that it is Patriotic to wear a face mask when you can’t socially distance." That would be mostly those on the left who are anti-Trump. "There is nobody more Patriotic than me' Ditch "patriotic" and replace with narcissistic and/or psychopathic and/or racist and or misogynistic and/or...... "your favorite President" Polls point to the opposite of favorite. @Lie2me - Yes, Ha ha ha .

@Lie2me Lou, I must say that he is getting resoundingly beaten to a pulp over this comment, now, months after the horse has left the barn The internal polls must be horrendous for him to make this statement

@Lie2me, Whose king?

@OldWRX: others have explained the fallacy in your statement far more eloquently than I can. I will however add that you are demonstrating that 'all or nothing' approach of deniers. Searching high and low for one article, often regardless of date or sample size, to try to disprove something that over 90% of those with applicable advanced degrees have agreed upon through scientific research. What is logical is accepting that science progresses and that what you believed to be true last week may actually be proven to be false. But not then claiming that the researchers were 'incompetent' or 'not to be trusted'. I do agree that Trump is not a fascist. His administration is currently a kleptocracy. Making him useful to many enshrined Senators and Congressional Representatives. Trump has no ideological foundation to build on, merely narcissism. Which many of his solid base have strengthened by creating a 'cult of personality'. Just like the dynasty in North Korea, they ascribe unique, almost 'superhuman' attributes to him. Meanwhile while the federal non-response to COVID has created a dumpster fire, he has spent all 4 days of the past 2 weekends playing golf. Looking at the USA as a foreigner, we cannot believe that your 2 presidential candidates are people who we don't feel are capable of even sitting on the residents' board of a retirement home.

@Old_WRX - That article you cited was March 26, 2020. A lot has changed since then. There is considerable variability because one does not know the true number of people infected by SARS-CoV-2. If one looks just at know deaths in the USA, influenza kills anywhere from 12,000 to 61,000 people annually. Currently the USA has 143,000 deaths. That means SARS-CoV-2 virus is 2 - 12 times more deadly than any influenza strain over the past 10 years. Citing a range of variability as Dr. Fauci does isn't a clear disagreement with current science. With that being said, you still haven't listed even a fraction of the dissenters that you claim to exist in the epidemiological field. It makes perfect sense that you want to exit this discussion. Being forced to reassess one's position is never easy. Quoting a great man like Benjamin Franklin is disingenuous. Wearing a mask doesn't impinge on one's freedom. He was a scientist. I'm sure he just flipped in his grave.

@Arthur Dailey - some have painted the choices in November 2020 as Biden Communist and Trump Fascist. The true political opposite to Fascism isn't communism, it's anarchy. Biden doesn't fit any definition of communism that I've seen. Trump does have totalitarian tendencies but he's too stupid to be able to weave his tendencies into anything resembling fascism.

@Lie2me "months after the horse has left the barn" You mean "months since the Wu Flu Flew to U."

@Arthur Dailey, Oh no, I've been labeled a denier --- we're all gonna die. Cut me an effin break. Don't tell me you buy all this two year old name calling "denier" and "conspiracy theorist." Using either of those terms as an attempt to discredit someone who does not agree with you is on the level of: did too, did not, did too, did not. It belongs on the elementary school playground. If you label someone "denier" or "conspiracy theorist,' the only person discredited is you.

@Lou_BC, "The true political opposite ..." One partly represents ideology A the other party ideology B. So, that implies A is the opposite of B? "but he’s too stupid" I love that one. They've really got the public snowed with the old "they're too stupid," or they're too incompetent" to be up to what they are up to. It would be hard to count the number of things that have blithely been waved aside with: Too Stupid/Incompetent. I think that is called being in denial.

@Old_WRX When a person 'denies' the available scientific evidence what would you call them? I stand by the dictionary definition. When one believes in conspiracies, how should you identify them? And I do not believe that it is a pejorative. After all I believe that Oswald did not act on his own. I believe that Epstein did not commit suicide. Those are my beliefs. I cannot prove them. Therefore I accept that my beliefs may be incorrect.

@Old_WRX “but he’s too stupid” I just aced a blood test. Yep, it turns out I have some and the doc said it's A+ My blood is so smart :)

@Arthur Dailey, The point I am trying to make is that calling someone a "denier" or "conspiracy theorist" has become a facile way of brushing off an inconvenient concern someone has. I saw a video of a press conference with Fauci. A reporter said that there had been a lot of allegations that data was not being handled in an appropriately rigorous way. That the data had been skewed to make the number of deaths from CV look higher than it really was. Fauci's response was that the people alleging statistical slight of hand were "conspiracy theorist" and that it was "just noise." This not an appropriate response. Accurate statistics are something the medical professional has historically treated as of critical importance. This is one of the reasons that articles are peer reviewed. Questions about the way statistics are being handled in this sort of situation should be addressed in an intelligent manner. Fauci's sneering jibe of "conspiracy theorists" only diminishes his own credibility. I agree that Oswald did not act alone; and I cannot prove it. I also believe that the world trade centers did not collapse because of the airplane strikes -- partly because demolishing them without taking out blocks of buildings around them would be a formidable task of engineering. In the sixteen years I worked as an engineer in industry I never once saw a difficult task like that go right by accident. But, again, I can not prove it.

@Old_WRX - all depends on which curtain you looked behind. In the USA, I'd say that the health care system and the political system has been a failure. I don't look at just one country's approach to all of this. Even countries successful with control have had stumbles and setbacks but have adjusted quickly. Should you reassess your opinion? Why not? I routinely reassess my opinions. Don't confine your quest for answers withing the continental USA.

"Once, you’ve looked behind the curtain you can’t go back to believing in the wizard." The Wizard of Orange has been revealed as the incompetent, amoral buffoon that he is

@Lou_BC, I constantly reassess my opinion or even simply don't decide. And, I definitely do not confine my information sources to within the borders of the US. To this day my opinion that CV is not what it it cracked up to be is quite tentative. Admittedly, a lot of what there is to go on (and I go on) is circumstantial. If this is indeed a hoax then the the inescapable questions are who? and why? (what is who trying to accomplish?). Cui bono? This is all happening (CV, riots, and a lot of other bizarre behavior) before what is without a doubt one of the most contentious presidential races. Meaningless coincidence or planned? I seem to recall that some similar riots, etc. occurred in 2016. That lends at least some credence to the idea that the timing is intentional. And, it would be hard to deny that the left is making maximum use out of CV and the pres's "response" to it. Don't get me wrong. The right is not exactly holding back either. The blatantly partisan squabbling in the media brouhaha over CV suggest that something isn't quite right, or at the very least the politicians are making rather callous use of the situation to further their agendas.

@Lie2me, Amoral or immoral?

@Old_WRX I couldn't decide, both work. Which do you think is best?

@Lie2me, Well, let me see. If we ask a moralist he would probably tell us thus that amoral is immoral. If we don't ask that moralist -- which would be my preference -- then we are back at square one. I guess it's just a moral dilemma. I hope that was helpful.

@Lie2me "I hope that was helpful." Not even a little bit a·mor·al /āˈmôrəl/ adjective: amoral lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something. "an amoral attitude to sex" im·mor·al /i(m)ˈmôrəl/ adjective adjective: immoral not conforming to accepted standards of morality. "an immoral and unwinnable war" Like I said both work, but thanks for the word salad

@Old_WRX The whole world isn't in on some grand scheme to undermine the current US administration. Has the media played it up? Maybe the USA media has but reporting on the poor US Federal response has been in foreign news agencies as well. The rest of the world looks at the USA with dismay. Trump fanned the flames of race and class to his advantage. That backfired since it just primed the pump. One more senseless killing set it all off. Occam's razor. The simplest explanation amoung several is usually the correct one. It isn't a mass conspiracy. Too complex, too convoluted, too hard to conceal.

Try harder

@Lie2me, "Try harder" Try this one. These people are a group of philosophical practitioners. They will, for a price, help you with any moral dilemma. There solution will be based on the sum total of all the wisdom of mankind. https://appa.edu/ They say they help with "management of human problems and the amelioration of human estates." So if you want a human problem solved or a human estate ameliorated -- check 'em out. I have absolutely no idea what "a human estate ameliorated" means. Do you?

@Old_WRX You really shouldn't skip your nap time you know how you get at the end of the day without it, all rambling and incoherent or are you drinking again?

@Lie2me, Drinking? No. I don't need any artificial stimulants to reach these heights of ratiocination. And, just so you know, I'm like this all the time -- at least after my first cup of coffee. And, I still haven't figured out what amelioration of human estates is.