By on December 27, 2019

Next year, the European Union plans to adopt aggressive new rules that would see automakers fined if their total annual vehicle sales exceed predetermined carbon limits. Obviously automakers aren’t thrilled with the new fines and higher emission mandates, but France is facing additional criticism for its decision to take things a step further.

France’s parliament has adopted a new law penalizing cars that emit carbon dioxide above a certain threshold while still adhering to EU regulations. Vehicles failing to adhere to the French rules will be subject to a 20,000 euros ($22,240) tax in 2020, nearly twice the current fine. Meanwhile, the country is mulling the possibility of culling EV incentives — an odd move, considering its aim to transition its populace to zero-emission vehicles.

As SUVs tend to be bigger polluters than, say, a city car that’s half their weight, they’re likely to be the most impacted by the new rules. According to Bloomberg, about one third of France’s new auto sales currently stem from crossovers and sporty utility models.

From Bloomberg:

The measures will impact SUV prices. SUVs are among the most polluting passenger vehicles because they are heavier and less fuel efficient. Despite this, they are popular, making up 30 percent of sales in France in the first 11 months, according to Paris-based consultancy Inovev. While electric-car sales are growing quickly, they still make up a tiny proportion of the overall market.

The measures have come under fire from the French industry.

“It’s a double penalty for consumers,” Luc Chatel, head of French automotive organization PFA, said in a statement, which called the policy “incoherent.”

“The electric-car market won’t take off without strong purchasing incentives,” Chatel said. “Everyone has something to lose: The industry, the environment and the purchasing power of the French.”

With more money coming in from models more prone to producing air pollution (via taxes), one would presume France could afford to continue subsidizing electric vehicles. Doing so isn’t cheap. It’s estimated that France’s EV subsidies cost the nation about 550 million euros last year. The French finance ministry figures its new SUV penalty could yield around 50 million euros in revenue per year in revenue, money that will apparently be used to help the automotive industry transition toward cleaner vehicles. But, as you can see, it is nowhere near enough to offset the cost of providing electric vehicle incentives.

Those subsidies will remain in place, undergoing some moderate changes. For 2020, France will offer as much as 6,000 euros toward the purchase of an electric car — so long as the vehicle costs less than 45,000 euros. This is being done to help reduce criticism that EV subsidies are basically a tax break for wealthy early adopters; the price cap is right on the edge of what a bare-bones Tesla Model 3 might cost in Europe.

That makes all of this a little more complicated than simply assuming France has no idea what it’s doing. Public sentiment increasingly frames EV subsidies as being anti-competitive, clogging the free market by propping up models chosen by the government — rather than consumers. France hopes to wean the public off EV subsidies by reducing the maximum payout over the next few years. Of course, it’s also praying they’ll be able to stand on their own by then.

Unfortunately, plenty of uncertainties persist. After 2030, European carmakers must achieve average vehicle emissions of just 59 grams of CO2 per kilometer (which translates to about 105 miles per gallon, if you’re driving a diesel) to avoid penalties. Many claim the rule basically forces automakers to shift away from internal combustion motors entirely. Gas burners probably cannot reach this target without customers making major sacrifices in terms of size, weight, and power. That leaves EVs, which burn their CO2 at battery/auto factories and power plants.

 

[Image: LanaElcova/Shutterstock]

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121 Comments on “French Tax on Inefficient Vehicles Riles Automakers...”


  • avatar
    ThomasSchiffer

    My impression is that their aim is not to force people into zero emission vehicles, but rather force them into overcrowded, unreliable and uncomfortable mass transportation such as trains, trams, buses and subway trains.

    These eco-terrorists will not stop until our cities are car-free and everyone has to waste precious time in mass transit to get from A to B. If you want control over your mobility, then buy a bicycle. That is literally how these people think. It infuriates me.

    They are not interested in electric vehicles. For them all vehicles are terrible, including supposed cleaner electric cars. Their number one enemy is the car, because it represents individual freedom.

    Side note, yesterday the German ‘workers’ party’, the SPD, proposed a complete ban on pickups for the German market, in order to protect the ‘global climate’ from these gas-guzzling vehicles. The stupidity level of these people has reached a new low. If I recall correctly, Ford sold almost 900,000 F-150 pickups in 2017/2018, but a German political party thinks they can save the planet by banning the handful of pickups in Germany…

    When will the nightmare end?

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      France has no issue with the Yellow Vests and seems to have that terrorism problem licked. So now it was time to focus on the important issues, like taxing automakers for increasing their sales.

      Nothing will save Europe short of a military backed coup against the unelected dictatorship of Brussels.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Question is, why would you want to save Europe? These bastards deserve everything they create for themselves.

        • 0 avatar
          dont.fit.in.cars

          Don’t save Europe…true. Note what’s headed our way.

        • 0 avatar
          bkojote

          They’re taking measures to keep Florida above water and you’re like “what bastards, they hate freedom”

          Somethin’s wrong with you dude.

          • 0 avatar
            MBella

            Is that the same Florida that was supposed to be underwater 10 years ago, yet somehow the beaches are exactly where they were 100 years ago. What’s interesting, that most of the climate experts like Barry Obama or Al Gore have multiple beachhouses and fly their private jets everywhere. Are those actions of someone who fears rising sea levels because of CO2 caused climate change?

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            bkojote

            only GOD decides Florida fate. You know, some billions years ago, Florida already looked different. And there were no cars. There used to be dinosaurs and no cars. . .

          • 0 avatar
            zerofoo

            You really believe the French give a shit about Florida?

            Neo-environmentalism is fascism disguised as altruism.

            Neo-environmentalists are not content with the significant progress that has been made over the past 40 years or so. They will not be content until they dictate to you what you can eat, how many children you can have, and how you move around.

            Arable land is increasing, food production globally is on the rise, life expectancy is growing at an increasing rate. There has never been a better time to be alive, yet Neo-environmentalists still continue to beat the “world is doomed” drum.

            Clearly, no amount of progress will make these nut-cases happy until they control your entire life.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Because civilization only exists in a select number of places, if they allow the slow decay of society to continue they’ll be in something akin to the Dark Ages inside of 100 years.

          @bkojote

          Do you understand anything at all about the European Union, the current state of France, or so called global warming?

        • 0 avatar

          WRONG PLACE WRONG TIME. I AM TIRED OF THIS NEW DESIGN.

        • 0 avatar

          France is a country with highest quality of life in the world. A little sacrifice does not hurt.

          • 0 avatar
            zerofoo

            The yellow vests don’t seem to think so:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement

          • 0 avatar

            “The yellow vests don’t seem to think so:”

            They are racists.

          • 0 avatar
            Funky D

            By whose standard? A Forbes study done a couple years back proved that you could take any EU country, make it a US state and it would be poorer than every state except Mississippi? That isn’t exactly quality of life.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @Funky D: Quality of life is not necessarily measured in Currency. The European countries have millennia of history behind them and their lifestyle is completely different from an American’s. The US has no history to speak of; we’re a country of immigrants trying to build a history.

        • 0 avatar
          Charliej

          Don’t the bastards in the US deserve the same?

      • 0 avatar
        ThomasSchiffer

        @28 Cars,

        You are correct.

        The sooner the EU dictatorship ends the better, The European elites have terrifying visions of a completely CO2-free Europe by 2050, which is completely impossible. They are now working towards this goal, and it will cost us, the German taxpayers, dearly (for one).

        This is the new European Green Deal, and I absolutely despise it. It is brought to us by a German politician whom we all despise and who was not elected by the Europeans during the last election; Ursula von der Leyen. She destroyed the German Army and was involved in numerous money scandals, yet somehow this criminal gets promoted to a top EU position. This is typical in the EU. Incompetent national politicians are fished out of their countries and are given prestige positions in Brussels.

        Consider me an enemy of the EU.

        • 0 avatar
          bkojote

          It’s not completely impossible- its being engineered by people with more gumption and brains than you.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            “It’s not completely impossible- its being engineered by people with more gumption and brains than you.”

            People so clever that they think a fetal alcohol syndrome victim spending her youth traveling an sailing yachts and in first class rail cars when not reclining in her $30K living room set, had her childhood stolen by the evil middle class insisting on having jobs, cars and homes. The only intelligent people involved in the climate hoax are the evil ones who are using it to accumulate wealth and power. Everyone else is a brainwashed imbecile being set up for slaughter.

          • 0 avatar
            Lockstops

            Oh yes, those all-knowing geniuses of government who always know everything and are able to control human society and the laws of nature with their ‘wisdom’ and taxation… Just like every time when socialists get enough power to prove their ‘brains’ with their five year plans like in the Soviet Union, North Korea, Venezuela, etc. etc. etc.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          My favorite Freudian slip of all time:

          “Because the European Parliament is a false, pseudo democratic institution. Its no more than democratic disguise for the [EU] Commission. The idea that its a democracy is absurd.”

          -Sir James Goldsmith, Member of European Parliament, 15.Nov.94

          https://youtu.be/wwmOkaKh3-s?t=2637

          • 0 avatar
            ThomasSchiffer

            @ 28 Cars

            Correct again.

            The EU is not a democracy, it is essentially a dictatorship. The representatives whom we, the European people, are allowed to vote, only have a consulting function, but no real power.

            The EU does what it wants, the elites make the decisions and they do not ask us, the people, if we are ok with it.

            There is a famous quote from Jean-Claude Juncker, the former President of the European Commission, in regards to how voting in the EU takes places. It reads:

            ‘We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don’t understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.’

            Utterly disgusting.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I’m glad I am not the only one who realizes this.

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        Odd that the yellow vests originally came out in opposition to increased fuel taxes. As for who is responsible, there’s no need to go to Brussels, the culprits are largely in Paris.

        After France muddled through an inefficient war rebuild in the ’40s and ’50s, DeGaulle took over, and utilized the French “best and brightest” to map out a coherent rebuild of the French economy and industry. It’s now those B&B in charge, but without the good sense of a titan like DeGaulle to restrain their more grandiose ideas.

        In fact, Emmanuel Macron is a graduate of the National School of Administration that has produced the B&B. He’s the last person to restrain the professional “adminstrators” who are running roughshod over the popular will. Forget Brussels, it’s France’s homegrown bureaucrats who are the problem.

        • 0 avatar
          Lockstops

          “Forget Brussels, it’s France’s homegrown bureaucrats who are the problem.”

          Why not both?

          EU bureaucracy is part of the funding system of the national bureaucracies. It’s a new, massive extension to their gravy train.

          The EU bureacracy can sometimes (often) bribe and corrupt politicians and bureacrats to sell out the interest of their own country too.

      • 0 avatar
        HotPotato

        Reading is fundamental. The article clearly states this is a domestic French initiative, not an EU one.

      • 0 avatar
        thegamper

        At least France is doing something to prevent the populace from commuting in farm equipment. Not a bad start to a better environment for everyone.

        Have to take extraordinary steps before Ram pickups sitting on US dealer lots start getting dumped in France.

    • 0 avatar
      bkojote

      We need to adopt it here, and its gonna happen plain and simple. Old inefficient vehicles like the F150 are either going to be electrified in rural parts or taxed in cities where the money is of course spent somewhere better.

      They don’t hate cars because they represent “individual freedom” but rather subsidizing them simply doesn’t scale.

      • 0 avatar
        ThomasSchiffer

        @ bkojote

        Actually we have a number of radical ecological political groups in Europe/Germany which have made their disdain for the automobile loud and clear and are calling for radical measures to make car ownership expensive and unpleasant.

        What these people fail to realize is that cars are practical and there will always be a need for them. But in their feeble, ideologically-poisoned minds, the car is something evil which needs to be eradicated. ‘Why drive a car when you can take a train/bus/tram/bicycle?’ That is how these crazy people think.

        This is my impression based on what is happening in my country. Even my three children, who are very much into cars (including my daughter), have informed me of the negative light in which many of their young peers view the automobile.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Its just Agenda 2030. Stack’em and pack’em oh and citizen did you happen to say something bad about Big Brother recently?

        They are building Elysium and you won’t be invited.

      • 0 avatar
        Lokki

        /u bkojote:

        “ We need to adopt it here, and its gonna happen plain and simple. Old inefficient vehicles like the F150 are either going to be electrified in rural parts or taxed in cities where the money is of course spent somewhere better.”

        Why? We have enough oil for some hundreds of years. Eventually electric vehicles may become practical in the vast expanses of America, but that day is far away. Why do you want to force people to abandon a proven technology for one that is not yet ready? What’s the point?

        Oh, right. “Climate change”. Go see China and India, with their 2 Billion people and tell them “no cars unless they’re electric.” If you succeed there, go on to Africa, With its 1.2 billion population and tell them the same, while tossing in “no electricity unless it’s solar or wind generated“.

        When you’re done there come back and talk to 330 million Americans.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      So which gives you more “control over your mobility” in central Paris: a car which there is no room to park and which leaves you stuck in some of the world’s worst traffic, or the Métro, which has reliable and fast trains running every few minutes to pretty much anywhere in the city?

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        They aren’t only talking about central Paris though.

      • 0 avatar
        bkojote

        I guarantee you most of TTAC’s “best and dumbest” hasn’t been to France, likely failed history, and printed a home diploma proclaiming them both an expert Google Scientician and urban planner, and gets their foreign policy news from RT.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          “hasn’t been to France”

          I spent time in Southeastern France when in Geneva in 2016. I also speak some French but not as much as I’d like.

          “likely failed history”

          B.S. minor in World History. I also took several additional electives on film and film history.

          “expert Google Scientician”

          A what?

          “gets their foreign policy news from RT.”

          Whats the difference? Since 2001 there has been just a much disinformation and propaganda from “American” news as there is from Soviet media. Those above the median IQ and whom are not completely brainwashed can pick up on this rather quickly.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          5 times now since 1998 to Paris alone, 4+ years in Southern Italy, 2 Trips to London, several to Germany, Belgium and some time on the slopes in Austria and a Masters in a STEM field with my undergrad minor in History but yeah, probably didn’t vote like you so likely just another idiot.

          The Metro isn’t free. I am sure it is less than owning a car in Paris, but I am not sure it is less than the average car owning American’s monthly expenses outside of a major city. Additionally, it is by far the best mass transit system of any city I have visited to include London and NYC. If you are outside of those 3, you are making real sacrifices not owning a car. And as I said, a ton of Parisiens still feel the need to own a car.

          And lastly, something had them rowled up in February…they were bashing windows all over the city. Yet I never once felt unsafe. They left the tourists alone. I love Paris.

          Now Southern Italy? You could ban every car in Naples and the air would still be think with the smoke of thousands of burning dumpsters. The dumpster outside my apartment smoldered the entire 4 years I was there and I am told, that some 20 years later it continues to burn.

          Anyhow, Couple of observations. First off, there are plenty of cars in central Paris but I am perplexed as to where they get gas. In 1998 (I actually drove there from Southern Italy in a 600 dollar car) there were gas stations in the city. When said 600 dollar SEAT Malaga’s glow plugs died a dude came over from one of them and shot a can of ether into the motor while smoking a cigarette to crank it…all parked right by the park at the base of the Eiffel Tower. Anyway I haven’t seen any gas stations in the city the last few trips and no, it isn’t because they are all electric. I was last there in February.

          Having said that, it is noticeably cleaner than when I first started going there. I assume the diesels that remain have gotten cleaner and there are way fewer of them. Good for the French. This is better for the much higher number of homeless folks you encounter nowadays, sadly.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          And my F150 is quite new by the way. No, I wouldn’t own it in Paris as that would be ridiculous, but I fail to see why my having it in Northern Alabama bothers people like you so.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          Hey bk, I guess when all else fails, personal attacks work, eh?

      • 0 avatar
        ThomasSchiffer

        @dal20402

        Your question ignores certain situations.

        Yes, city public transportation such as a subway is, in general, faster. But it also involves more waiting time and has recently become somewhat unsafe thanks to the EU’s disastrous open border policy. Also, and I can only speak for Germany’s public transportation system, the reliability is terrible. Trains continually fail or break down or are simply delayed – by tens of minutes or longer. This is unacceptable.

        However, if I need to transport something or pick up something which I cannot carry with me or on a bicycle, then taking my car is a must. And I will gladly take into account the traffic and longer duration of the trip. In the interests of my own comfort and safety (or the safety of my children), I would prefer to take my car, even if it includes getting stuck in a traffic jam.

        In my city, Munich, I actually tend to cycle (as a means of keeping fit) and also use the U-Bahn (subway trains). However, the latter is quite unreliable and has a high failure rate. On some days when it is rainy and cold, I do not feel like taking my bicycle, and if the subway train has another failure, my only option is to take my car to work so that I can arrive on time. The traffic in my city is not that bad, and if I leave early enough I will actually beat it and arrive to work on time.

        When I go to work I am alone. However, when I travel with my family I prefer to take the car, not only because it is comfortable, but because it is safer.

        And I still view a car as freedom, and it gives me the ability to go somewhere when I want, even if this means ending up in a traffic jam. At least there are no strangers around me whom I have to smell or who cough into my face without covering their mouth…

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          “But it also involves more waiting time and has recently become somewhat unsafe thanks to the EU’s disastrous open border policy.”

          Shhhhh better stop speaking truths or the Stasi may pay you a visit.

          • 0 avatar
            ThomasSchiffer

            @ 28 Cars,

            The government has actually encouraged a program in which neighbors can and should spy on neighbors and report ‘hate speech’ on a free hotline to government authorities.

            What is considered ‘hate speech’? Take your pick! Here are some examples. Criticism of Merkel and the government, questioning the high crime rates of African/Islamic ‘migrants’ and why our justice system does not punish/evict them, speaking out against the disastrous energy policy of the government and praising the AfD political party.

            This is not a joke. What is happening in my country is borderline insanity, and many people will not believe it because it is just too ludicrous to be considered true.

            Proof – from the government mainstream propaganda press themselves; https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute/kampf-gegen-rechts-wird-komplexer-kontrollgremium-bundestag-beraet-100.html

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          I see freedom as being able to get wherever I want fast and cost-effectively.

          In rural areas, that means a car.

          In urban areas, it may mean public transit, a bicycle, or a taxi, depending on circumstances. A car is a drag on freedom because of the time, hassle, and expense associated with parking it.

          In America, we have constructed many of our in-between suburbs in such a way that there is no way to get where you want fast and cost-effectively. The density is too low to allow non-car modes to work, but the volume of cars is sufficient to guarantee heavy traffic and parking hassles. Living in a place like that strikes me as an abridgment of freedom compared either with living in the city or the country.

          I haven’t addressed the misanthropy in your post, which is a common theme in those who insist on driving cars regardless of whether they work best in a given situation. For the most part I don’t mind being around my fellow humans; certainly, the benefits of the city are more than worth the occasional annoyances they cause.

          • 0 avatar
            Roader

            “Inner Paris may look much the same way it did in, say, 1950 but the population has drastically changed. The vast majority of people who would still call themselves ‘Parisians’ don’t live here. They are in the suburbs and exurbs.”

            ‘The Freedoms of Suburbia’ by Paul Barker (2009-10-27)

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Just watch out for the youngins’ on the Tube.

        https://www.thelocal.fr/20190523/man-stabbed-on-paris-metro-after-reprimanding-another-passenger-for-blocking-the-train-doors

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          The chance of something like that happening to you if you ride a subway every day is quite a lot less than the chance that you will be in a serious injury accident if you drive a car every day.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            In the US in 2019 or in France in 2019?

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Anywhere. You can measure the number of assaults (all, both serious and not) throughout a typical major metro transit system in the low single digits per day. Of those, a few per year might result in serious injury. The number of crashes in a city big enough to have a major metro system is going to be in three digits per day, with probably a few a day resulting in serious injury.

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        That’s the urban mindset. It may work in much, but not all, of Europe, but it’s a non-starter in America. The urban population in America is a small percentage of the total, with thousands of small cities and towns dozens to hundreds of miles apart. there are neither trolleys nor buses, nor heavy rail enough to move goods and people where they want/need to go.

        The elite urban vision is small tightly clustered apartments close to boutique stores, with streetcars and light rail. What they envision America already had – the tenements of New York City’s lower east side, where families were packed together, slept on fire escapes on hot August nights, and watched their kids playing stickball in the streets.

        Generations later, Americans are still averse to that, preferring a house in the suburbs, with lawns and backyards, and a car that takes them to the supermarket, school recitals and sporting events. Now the elites are saying those suburbs are bad for the environment and want to outlaw single family housing zoning.

        The bottom line in all of this is a noisy elite telling the rest of us how to live, for our own good.

        • 0 avatar

          I love this. As soon as that millenial has kids, suddenly that cluster housing is a bit…tight. They can’t afford the three bedroom apartment that might make it easier to stay in the city, plus the crappy schools are suddenly a priority. The very well off get the three bed, and kids go to private school or they fight for one of the “magnet” schools…the other 7/8 look elsewhere, and find themselves back where many started, in the suburbs. Right now I’m fighting off, in my little town, a “speed hump everywhere” mentality….like the folks who complain about California folks moving to AZ or NM, they bring their ideas with them. No one wants to live in tiny housing…the few that do are the exception that proves the rule. You don’t need 5000 sq/ft, but the tiny aparments in most cities leave much to be desired.

      • 0 avatar

        “there is no room to park and which leaves you stuck in some of the world’s worst traffic,”

        That’s why Europe sucks and should serve us as an example of how not conduct the affairs. Brits got it because they are smarter than typical continental European.

    • 0 avatar
      FormerFF

      A terrorist is someone who uses violence for political means, not someone who lobbies the government for policies you don’t like.

      • 0 avatar
        ThomasSchiffer

        @ FormerFF,

        Excellent description of the eco-TERRORISTS who in Germany have recently physically attacked, set on fire and destroyed a number of luxury SUVs and sports cars because of the perceived damage they do to the earth’s climate.

        The European Union’s plan to ‘stop climate change’ is in my opinion bordering on complete and utter insanity. It will be an expensive failure that will destroy several economies and livelihoods.

        Innovation and technological advances are the key to solving problems while letting us enjoy our current lifestyles.

        The EU wants to drastically degrade our lifestyle while at the same time making it financially more expensive. That is not how to get people onboard with ‘climate protection’.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          “The European Union’s plan to ‘stop climate change’ is in my opinion bordering on complete and utter insanity.”

          I’d really need to see some data, which I am sure they don’t have, but it occurs to me if you want to make a real dent in “climate change” you need to eliminate the excess population of Earth. Oddly this is never discussed in public or even private circles I have observed.

          • 0 avatar
            ThomasSchiffer

            @ 28 Cars,

            This is what I have been saying in my circle of friends. Human overpopulation and the resulting deforestation are probably the biggest factors in accelerating climate change, not CO2.

            But this is also ignored by European politicians. Instead, they are creating these so-called ‘migration pacts’ (along with the UN) which in essence are designed to transfer the excess populations from Africa/Asia to Europe, and here their birth rates are just as high as in Africa/Asia.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            @28, this is true. If we are talking about the literal survival of the planet than we shouldn’t be making exceptions for “developing economies” to catch up but rather imposing forced birth control and using the Army if required to enforce whatever means are required to keep the planet alive.

            Yet we aren’t.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            Exactly, if they don’t mention the need to do something about the exploding population on this lil planet then, obviously, they don’t really care about pollution. QED

    • 0 avatar
      Dan

      “My impression is that their aim is not to force people into zero emission vehicles, but rather force them into overcrowded, unreliable and uncomfortable mass transportation such as trains, trams, buses and subway trains.”

      That’s a step along the way but it isn’t the end goal. Once you’ve transitioned the population to dependency on centrally planned transportation we, at least the middle class we, can’t white-flight our way away from all of the other centrally planned, rectally delivered things that they’ve got in store for us.

      Working class mobility in any sense at all is a historical aberration, and aberrations correct themselves.

      • 0 avatar
        Lockstops

        It’s true: those insane leftist elitist government juggernaut extremists are striving for nothing else than ‘the final solution’ for cars. That’s how psycho they are,

      • 0 avatar
        ThomasSchiffer

        Europe is suffering under the leftists, who slowly but surely have gained power in the important sectors and are now pushing their ideology on us. They have brainwashed the European/German youth into believing that capitalism and cars (for example) are bad, and that we must vote for them in order to protect ‘freedom and democracy’.

        In reality, they will take our freedom and our cars away from us at the first opportunity. They’ve already taken away our democracy.

        Just in, an interview with the German youth leader of the Green Party. What does he strive for? A world without coal, without cars and no capitalism. And the scary thing is that there are brain dead people in Europe/Germany who vote for this dangerous political party.

        https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article204614338/Chef-der-Gruenen-Jugend-Georg-Kurz-Prioritaet-fuer-Fussgaenger-und-Radfahrer.html

    • 0 avatar

      Literally this. In NYC, the Bike nuts have forced bike lanes, re stripe of roads to remove car lanes, restrictive parking rules…all as the bicycle is clearly the supreme user of our roadways. Meanwhile, traffic snarls, half the cars on the road are Ubers, stores can’t get deliveries. Every rule change is to make it harder to drive…my favorite is the drop speed limit to 25 then install massive cameras….

      It is a poliitical agenda. In NYC, though,there isn’t a mass transit system to easily segue to….hence the flood of Uber making things worse. The Subways date from WW1 and there aren’t any more of them. Riding German and Japanese systems has demonstrated to me that we are an empire in decline.

      The theory of the bike nuts is that, to break car culture, you need to make the bike lanes first, build it and they will come. Every time a biker is killed in NYC traffic, they take another swipe at “drivers” and “ban cars” rings out yet again. It is an absolute act of insanity to bicycle in NYC traffic, lanes or not….at least a motor cycle has power and can use the normal lanes.

      Meanwhile, the rest of the US is huge place, with zero mass transit to speak of….yet the Vision Zero nonsense, political change disguised as traffic safety, permeates elsewhere. I’m seeing bicycles on limited access roads where non motor vehicle have no place, more and more.

      One of the other tenents of VZ is that the pedestrian has literally no responsibilty for their own welfare…it is all on the driver….NYC DOT “leaders” have said this many times. Insane.

      Cross at the Green, Not In Between.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        @Speedlaw: If you ask me, that’s a good thing; traffic was already too heavy in NYC… to the point that metropolitan services themselves could hardly move. I expect it won’t be much longer until non-residents of the city centers will have private vehicles banned and even residents required to use battery-electric vehicles to help eliminate noise and pollution. The only means of personal transportation for individuals will be bicycles and scooters (i.e. Segway or other battery-powered device that can be ridden or carried into the workplace.) I would hope to see this happen in every major city over time and even in smaller ones, as people have simply become too addicted to their cars to realize that a proper commuter transportation network is far more efficient both in time AND cost.

        Am I a “bike nut”? No. Because of my Asthma I cannot ride a bike faster than about 10-15mph or I get excessively winded and could conceivably pass out due to lack of oxygen (that hasn’t happened to me yet.) However, with electric scooters and bicycles it would be possible to ride anywhere from 20 to 50 miles taking up little more than about 10 square feet of roadway instead of the 144 square feet an average car uses. As it is, I live in a rural town because I don’t like driving in the city; drivers have forgotten how to be courteous, there.

        Ergo, I support the idea that POVs should be banned from metropolitan centers with commuters required to use either metropolitan transportation or hired services with the only exclusion being person-portable transports like scooters and/or folding bikes. Such person-portable transports may either be manually powered or electric but not liquid fueled.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Break out those yellow vests from the trunk and start wearing them in protest.

  • avatar
    FormerFF

    “That leaves EVs, which burn their CO2 at battery/auto factories and power plants.”

    Considering that the French power grid is 90% nuclear and hydro, you can pretty much remove the “power plants” from your statement.

    • 0 avatar
      HotPotato

      What do you expect? This is TTAC, where the writers are sometimes hard to discern from anti-EV propagandists.

      …and where the usual comment trolls go beyond green-bashing to outright inviting political murder on a semi-regular basis…and yet I have never, not even once, seen a moderator or editor step in and say “OK pal, cool off the rhetoric there.”

      TTAC could use more moderation, in every sense of the word.

  • avatar
    aja8888

    It’s the French, remember…..

    • 0 avatar
      Lockstops

      They are far from alone. The EU machine feeds so many of our billions to so many European politicians nd bureaucrats that they can buy who they want, they call the shots.

      Germany isn’t far behind, no matter what their auto industry says, and much of the other EU countries have been taken over by the corrupt red/green corruption cancer.

      There are hundreds of thousands of very motivated, power and money hungry red/green soldiers working in a planned, coordinated way to spread their cancer everywhere by all means necessary. They already have the money, the media, slowly much of the corporations and they already have long ago got the unions. Who would stop them when the populace is too stupid and too indoctrinated to even understand what’s happening and what’s in their self-interest? It’s so easy to just sit back and give away your power and money in return for nice sounding promises and not having to do anything (other than work and give the fruits of your labour to the EU priesthood/royalty, then only recieve what they feel like giving you and when their system doesn’t work it’s someone else’s fault)

      • 0 avatar
        Lockstops

        Even ‘feminism’ is just a hilarious tool for them to grab more money and power: so-called ‘strong independent women’ are supposed to show how ‘strong, independent and capable’ they are by giving up all their money, power, choices to ‘daddy government’??

        Since when do capable, strong, intelligent people need ‘guardians’ to make all their decisions for them, spend their money on their behalf? But no, that somehow is what feminist leftist logic works… Driving your own car is bad, owning your own car is bad, bumming a ride from ‘daddy government’s’ (mostly man-driven) buses is ‘strong feminism’…

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Good to see the political articles have evolved from an excuse to go on loud rants…

  • avatar
    johnnyz

    There is a plague of socialist – jack-booted thugs taking over the world!

    Even here in Minnesota they are going for “carbon neutral” by 2030.

    How can they accomplish that? I am glad you asked. Tax the hell out of everyone and create mandates that are unattainable.

    As long as the economy is prospering, we may be able to build more electric vehicles etc. When there is an economic downturn, things could get really bad. Simply put you cannot mandate what technology cannot furnish.

    Socio, echo facism is inboldened like never before. It must be stopped.

    Trump is 100% right in keeping the us out of the Paris accords. The war on carbon dioxide is a war on humans.

    This will not end well. Hold your ground and protect the first and second amendment!

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      And I just heard on Fox News that we’ve won the Cold War!! In reality, we lost and lost big. While Russia gained democracy and capitalism we’re on the path of losing both these attributes.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        If you think Russia gained democracy, I encourage you to go campaign against Putin, or maybe for Chechen autonomy, and see what happens to you.

        • 0 avatar
          bullnuke

          dal – Methinks you do not realize what the folks living in the former USSR had before the Russia of current times. A couple of the regular commenters here could perhaps fill you in on the differences. Perhaps not democracy as you see it but likely much preferable to the previous system.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I am aware that the previous system was even worse. The claim I was responding to is that Russia has democracy and the United States does not.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          dal,

          what is democracy for you? In US-terms, this is open elections. This is what “democracy” means in the US. So, let me tell you, today, Russian elections are as good as American. They have foreign monitors and all other mechanisms to have clean elections. Now that you mentioned Chechnya, what do you know about this place to even start this conversation? And what exactly do you mean about its autonomy?

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Democracy, functionally, means that the voters are able to force a peaceful transition of power when they decide it is necessary. There is nothing Russian voters could do to dislodge Putin at the moment. Any serious challenger would be denied the ability to register as a candidate, using trumped-up reasons if necessary (as happened in 2018).

            And as for dissent (on Chechnya or other subjects), this does not happen in the US:

            https://apnews.com/cfbe9fb70d4943e1881be5157b221cca

            I know nothing about Chechnya except that people who advocate against Putin on the topic keep ending up dead.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          “There is nothing Russian voters could do to dislodge Putin at the moment”

          Why do you think that russian voters want to dislodge Putin? This is faulty thinking. There is a small and vocal group that wants to. You hear about thousands of protesters but you don’t mention millions of non-protesters. You seem forget about majority of the voters who – 1. don’t care and 2. Like/love Putin. If you are talking about Navalny – this is a joke. He is a political nobody. He is only famous for illegally occupying Moscow squares. It almost seem that he works for Putin. He does everything to take away those votes that could be gone against Putin. Why are his people don’t vote for other candidates? And why if they do, these candidates gain only small %?

          Its funny that you provided a link to the article where they talk about a guy who faked his murder with blood and all other theatrical stuff. But, of course, there were other journalists mentioned. Also, note that all murders came between 2006-10 when it was still pretty wild over there. Government clamped down on these things since then. Besides, you’re imagining that Putin orders these things. Using your logic, Trump ordered murder of Epstein (this does not happen in US, huh?). But you forget, these journalists had more serious enemies. At that time mafia still had control over business.
          And if you’re talking about regions like Dagestan, Chechnya – these places are wild. Americans simply can not comprehend that “western thinking” is not applicable there. They live by the laws of the mountains. This is why Putin and Kadyrov have the relationship they do. Kadyrov is a little king in Chechnya, he controls the region and reports to Putin – boss, everything under control. Its a status quo. He keeps Islamic terrorists out, supports federal raids on their hideouts, keeps mafia under control. Putin provides him with federal funding for projects.

          And again, for things that “don’t” happen in the US – “Chauncey Bailey, who was the editor at a large circulation African American newspaper, was murdered in 2007 for his investigative reporting”

      • 0 avatar

        “I just heard on Fox News that we’ve won the Cold War!”

        You mean “we” Russians? Yeah that’s true. Yankees lost.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Haha,

          yea, they keep saying “we” won the cold war, and yet, keep fighting it, while turning socialist in the process.
          Also, a dude on the Fox news openly said, “Trump didn’t come out from INF because of Russia. China is the culprit”. So, “Russia broke the agreement” was another falsified claim, as we already knew anyways.

          Hey, I am all for America. Only it feels so USSR in here

  • avatar
    Roberto Esponja

    And here in the US, self-loathing Americans want to implement all policies that come from Europe. You know, ’caused everything is better there.

  • avatar
    conundrum

    The neoliberals like Junckers the banker’s boy, and Macron the privatization king, are hardly socialists. They must laugh their heads off at the dopes who figure that’s what they are. Got the masses fooled five ways to Sunday, as they remove the last penny from the pockets of regular folk and hand it over to the rentier class of the wealthy elite.

    The Yellow Vests protest against fuel price increases and the increased tolls on toll highways, not to mention the reduced speed limits on regular public roads that went along with it. Got to make the toll highway owners even richer by forcing the rural workers to use them because traveling to work on secondary free roads takes way more time. That was the basis of the Yellow Vests revolting against Macron in the first place – squeeze the people from both ends. Jack fuel prices, jack tolls and cut speed limits on regular free roads – that ain’t socialism, it’s the ripping off of what’s left of regular people by the rich who run government. Of course people are unhappy — it’s neoliberalism by the right to stick it to the proles, and why the Yellow Vests protest to this day. The absolute opposite of socialism as French police happily ruin lives with rubber bullets and assault protesters each weekend – they’re the jack-booted thugs of the right, not the left.

    But then I suppose expecting the usual dolts here to get it all wrong and upside down is the norm of my expectations. No wonder “right wing business” people like Trump an Macron say one thing and do the other. They are the new populist liars, along with that sociopath Boris Johnson in the UK. Cut taxes for the rich, pave the way to make them even richer, and end up with not enough money to run the country. Then it’s deficit time, so they cut services claiming austerity is the only way to go. Top down right wing anuses propelled by greed and a PR machine that means the average dope actually thinks they’re getting a great deal even as their pockets are picked.

    And judging by 99% of the horse manure I read here, they’ve fooled you lot completely.

  • avatar
    Ce he sin

    There’s a fair amount of rubbish being spouted here about CO2 based taxation in France, so let’s get a few thing straight:
    – It’s not new. France has had a system of bonuses and penalties for several years. If you buy a car whose CO2 emissions are above a specified “neutral” level, you pay a graduated tax when you buy new. The monies collected are used to pay a (much smaller) bonus on vehicles with less emissions than the “neutral” level. In the event the scheme turned out to work too well, car buyers deserted high CO2 vehicles and the taxes collected therefrom weren’t enough to pay the bonus so the goal posts had to be moved.
    – The €20,000 isn’t a flat rate charged on all higher CO2 emitting vehicles, it’s a graduated amount beginning at €12,552. Not many are going to pay the full €20,000. Yes, it’s a lot of money but it’s being applied to cars which are expensive anyway.
    – It’s not anti car. If you want an expensive, upmarket car and don’t want to pay an extra €20,000 for the privilege you can take yourself to your nearest Tesla dealer. Don’t like those? Plenty of PHEVs out there.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      “car buyers deserted high CO2 vehicles and the taxes collected therefrom weren’t enough to pay the bonus so the goal posts had to be moved.”

      Doesn’t take much to change behavior.

      How much fuel could we avoid burning in America if, without any other changes, every 3-row crossover, SUV, or full-size pickup used a hybrid powertrain? As a reminder, a couple of comparisons (all EPA ratings):

      2010 Tahoe Hybrid 4WD (6.0L V8 + 2 motors): 21 city, 22 highway, 21 combined
      2010 Tahoe 4WD (5.3L V8): 15 city, 21 highway, 17 combined

      2014 Highlander Hybrid AWD (3.5L V6 + 3 motors): 27 city, 28 highway, 27 combined
      2014 Highlander AWD (3.5L V6): 18 city, 24 highway, 20 combined

      With the smallest of incentives and zero change to our lifestyles we could be cutting a quarter or so of our fuel consumption.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        A few of us on here have been beating the conventional hybrid drum for mainstream vehicles for about 3 years now. Unfortunately it isn’t as sexy for governments to incentivize as plug-ins and goofball displacement taxes made the <=2.0t an easier sell.

      • 0 avatar
        Dave M.

        Exactly my sentiment – what small to medium moves can we as a consumer market make to improve efficiency? The new Highlander Hybrid is predicted to increase efficiency 20% over the current one. That’s a pretty astounding jump.

        • 0 avatar
          Daniel J

          In many cases the price simply doesn’t make any sense to go hybrid. If “we” wanted more people buying those vehicles, incentives must be in place to offset the cost. We’ve been looking at a RAV4 hybrid and even with fuel at 4 dollars a gallon, it would take 6 years to recover the costs.

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            If you compare like to like, ie the AWD non-hybrid you are looking at 24,000 mi to recoup the $800 premium for the Hybrid. That or course is assuming that at the end of that 24,000 miles the are both worth the same amount. In reality the Hybrid will be worth more and in fact I’d bet it will be worth at least $800 more meaning the savings on fuel is just gravy on top of having a more powerful and all around better power train.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            The cry for incentives proves that the market demand isn’t there. The real barrier to more efficient car purchases is the cost of the more efficient car.

            This isn’t hard to understand unless you’re motivations are to not understand it.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          Unfortunately, the new Highlander Hybrid also is losing two of its cylinders and 66 of its horsepower, so it’s likely to be a slightly less pleasant vehicle than the old one. The examples I listed (plus the RAV4 cited by Scoutdude below) show that it is possible to get major gains without any sacrifice at all. The government incentives necessary to make it happen would be comparatively tiny.

    • 0 avatar
      thx_zetec

      Man we were having so much fun you spoiled it.

      What mpg is this? What size car?

  • avatar
    MKizzy

    The French were going to keep trying to raise revenue without upsetting their all-powerful unions whose best talent is shutting down the country until they get what they want. Looks they found a winner, at least for now.

    Expect these kind of draconian measures to be proposed in the U.S. (probably starting with Cali) as part of the Progressive overreach as soon as the post-Trump era takes effect and the U.S. rejoins the Paris Accords.

  • avatar
    thejohnnycanuck

    Le idiots.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Poll for you and your friends:

    In the picture at the top of this article, we see (choose one):
    a) Mostly combustion smoke generated by automobiles
    b) Mostly vehicle pollutants entering Earth’s atmosphere
    c) Mostly water vapor from vehicles on a cold day
    d) Mostly steam from underground sources
    e) Other

    • 0 avatar
      johnnyz

      That would be water vapor on a cold day.

      Looks like a typical Minnesota morning during rush hour. Know that we are going carbon neutral by 2030 – I don’t know how those batteries are going to work when it’s 2 degrees Fahrenheit.

  • avatar
    brn

    Something tells me the members of Parliament won’t be impacted by the tax.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    So France will be the EU’s new California.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    It started by not giving a crap. The EU didn’t even require vehicle emissions until 1993, and that was likely lobbied by EU automakers themselves, vs having two separate standards.

    Then the EU pushed diesels hard, yeah the pre-emissions kind, and France pushed for dirty diesels the hardest. And long after the ill effects of breathing “unfiltered” diesel tailpipe emissions were well known, for decades, by everyone, basically.

    Again weren’t diesels lobbied by EU automakers?

    So what caused the flip/overkill? It couldn’t have been the trillions spent on healthcare issues, including prenatal, clearly linked to air pollution that they otherwise inflicted on the public?

  • avatar
    Whatnext

    Hey let’s start a thread to bring out all the knee jerk reactionaries. Mission accomplished.

  • avatar
    Roader

    In most of the United States cars emit less CO2 per passenger mile than transit:

    “Urban Transit Is an Energy Hog”
    Randal O’Toole, ‘Antiplanner’, 24 Dec 2019

    http://ti.org/pdfs/APB33.pdf

    • 0 avatar
      HotPotato

      Cool, let’s see all the physically and mentally disabled people with no income save SSI purchase and drive cars. And the kids who are too young to drive, and the seniors who are too old, and the students and low-wage workers who are too poor. No? Don’t be daft. Public transportation fills a vital need utterly apart from those calculations. But if a wider variety of people ride it, so that each bus is more full, it carries environmental benefits too.

  • avatar
    Roader

    With the amount of money many cities (aside from the old, very dense cities like NYC and downtown Chicago) spend on light rail, we could buy Lyft or Uber rides for all those “physically and mentally disabled people with no income; and the kids who are too young to drive, and the seniors who are too old, and the students and low-wage workers who are too poor”…

    …and still emit less CO2. Don’t be daft.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    The French Government has to put a heavy tax on any vehicle not made in France to get their own people to buy their terrible cars. French are not known for making dependable and reliable cars. The only cars that are comparable to the quality of the French cars are the Vega, Yugo, and Fiat.

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