By on September 25, 2019

Image: Corey Lewis/TTACA new trim level here, a revised bumper there, general fiddling. Sometimes, there’s just no way around it — a manufacturer’s vehicular offering is overdue for replacement. Today we want to discuss the models on sale in The Current Year that have lived past their reasonable shelf life.

The idea behind refresh-not-replace is of course money saving; to stretch out a few more years from a platform that’s already a sunk cost. It occurred to me there might be several current models overdue for replacement after the article yesterday on the visually refreshed Nissan Patrol. We North Americans know it as Armada.

nissan

The current Patrol debuted in 2010 overseas, the same year the fancy version appeared locally as the Infiniti QX56. Since then, Patrol has sailed along with mostly minimal changes. The 2020 (second overall) refresh looks as though Nissan put in a bit more effort. There’s finally a central screen in place of a bevy of buttons — thanks, Infiniti. But the rest of the interior does not fare so well.

Areas of age concern are found around the gear shift, the trim along the dashboard, the timbered wheel, and the big red starter button that Nissan has been using in various colors since sometime around 2005. All those things a manufacturer could redesign with a new platform must stay the same if you are stretching out an old one on a limited budget.

nissanThe refresh will probably net a slight sales boost, as the exterior alterations are definitely more pleasing and cohesive than the outgoing version. But it’s just not enough. The layers of lipstick are piling up on the pig, and cash-strapped Nissan needs to face facts: that their product needs replacement. Not to say the current model is particularly poor; the Armada seems a good value amongst large SUVs which can seat seven and still go off-road. But that doesn’t change the decade-old underpinnings.

What models on sale presently are overdue for a do-over?

[Images: Corey Lewis/TTAC, Nissan]

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91 Comments on “QOTD: Living Beyond One’s Reasonable Years?...”


  • avatar
    Mike Beranek

    The obvious answer is the Caravan, which is being replaced but they kept the old one around for several years until introducing the new Voyager.
    Actually, a lot of Mopars…Charger/Challenger/300, Journey, they even kept the “classic” Ram.

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      Also the current-gen Toyota Sienna. Introduced for the 2011 model year, it’s been facelifted, gone from LED taillights to incandescents, and got a new instrument panel a couple of years ago. But it’s still old.

    • 0 avatar
      Mnemic

      Toyota 4Runner needs it badly. It looks ok but the 90’s 4.0L V6 that gets worse gas mileage than a hellcat is laughable in 2019.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Mine gets over 20MPG which is par or better than all of these midsize crossovers like the Traverse and Explorer.

        The 4.0L is better than the alternative 3.5L by miles.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        Then Toyota needs an equally torque-y truck type V6 to replace it.

        I’ll bet a small 4.X V8 with a better transmission could get better fuel economy.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          I and another member of this site that had a Tahoe rental have both seen GMs 5.3L V8 return mid 20s MPG on the highway and for me at least around 18-20 in the city. We’re at the point in technology that using a V8 to power these heavier midsize trucks is the only reasonable powertrain. Remember this generation 4Runner started out with an optional 4 cylinder.

          I think the issue is that OHC V8s don’t have the real world gains we’re seeing in OHV V8s from FCA and especially GM. And I don’t see Toyota switching to OHV so who knows?

          Updated transmission as you said, would also go very far.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        I have a ’19 4Runner as a rental this week. Hertz has a sense of humor when it comes to “upgrades”. It is AWFUL. My 25yo Land Rover Disco is a far better drive. ~17mpg driving gently around Roanoke VA…

    • 0 avatar
      SSJeep

      NO NO NO Please don’t mess with the Challenger and Charger! Update the interior, maybe, but the chassis and propulsion are rock solid and reliable. And they are selling very well.

      Instead, I would be updating these, like yesterday:
      – EVERYTHING in the Nissan portfolio sans the Leaf;
      – EVERYTHING in the Infiniti portfolio;
      – Toyota Tundra, 4Runner, Sequoia, Land Cruiser, Sienna;
      – All Lexus trucks (LX, GX, etc);
      – Ford F150 (Ill get flack for this one, but the interior sorely needs a makeover)

      • 0 avatar
        Mnemic

        Challenger and charger both badly need major updates. I owned a 2012 SRT and when I went to sit in a 2019 it had the exact same interior. Don’t change them drastically, but cut out 400lbs and just make them better in every way. Make the challenger look more like a 70/71, better performance, better gas mileage, better interior. Leave the chargers silhouette alone and make it better at everything too. Basically give them the Jeep Wrangler treatment

    • 0 avatar
      threeer

      Why? The Caravan serves a purpose and does so well within the parameters it is designed for. It sells well enough, given the price point. Not sure it needs to be changed just for the sake of change. I own a 2016 and am quite pleased with it. Built and bought for a specific purpose, no need to break something that doesn’t need to be fixed.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        FCAs plan with the Caravan is sort of a question mark to me.

        You have introduced a fleet only Voyager (based off the Pacifica) BUT they also shut down the Caravan factory a few years back to make safety updates (that couldn’t have been cheap). Where are they going with it?

        If the plan is to keep the Caravan in production, why introduce a variation of the Pacifica platform just for the rental market?

        • 0 avatar

          I think the plan is to slowly phase out the Caravan. The Voyager is NOT fleet only, the Voyager L and LX trims are available at retail, but the LXi trim IS fleet only. The Caravan was slightly updated a couple of years ago to meet certain safety requirements in order to allow it to be continued to be sold. I think that once the Voyager ramps up, the Caravan will be phased out, as it does not fit in with the Dodge ” American performance” brand image.

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      Please leave the Caravan, largely, alone. I would like to FCA spend a couple of hundred dollars on improved parts, and an expanded warranty. Raise the price to reflect that and those who have remained aloof due to potential/perceived FCA quality/reliability issues could find the Caravan too appealing a package to ignore.

      A person that I work with has had to return her 7 seat CUV to the dealer for a recall/repair. For the past week, she has had the CUV replaced by a minivan. She does not want to return the van. Although a committed CUV owner/driver for over a decade, after one week she acknowledges the superior functionality of the minivan.

    • 0 avatar
      Flipper35

      The “platform” the cars are based on is old, it has been updated several times in the life of the models.

  • avatar
    Hummer

    A good vehicle need never be put out to pasture solely due to its platforms age. Today more than ever keeping platforms for extended periods just makes sense.

    The only vehicles that need to be redone every 5-7 years are vehicles that are uncompetitive to begin with or are “fashionable” and “trendy” (I.e. the Sh&t vehicles that enthusiasts wouldn’t buy to begin with).

    The frontier is one of the best looking midsizers on the market, and the Charger is the best looking 4 door car under $50k in my opinion. Last gen Ram looked great and had a timeless design that still works as it carries on the Classic sticker. The 4Runner sales have increased as the platform has aged, granted part of that is due to the 4Runner being 1 of 2 SUVs still for sale today, it had much more competition when it was introduced. As well as being the smallest off-road vehicle offered for sale in America in 2019.

    • 0 avatar
      Mike Beranek

      I remember how long GM kept the A-bodies running well into the 1990’s. The Century and Ciera were so sorted-out by then that they scored the highest quality ratings, despite being over a decade old.

      • 0 avatar
        MRF 95 T-Bird

        The GM A-bodies ran until 1996. They were so long in the tooth that they kept the door mounted belts and never installed a passenger side airbag.

      • 0 avatar
        johnds

        People still had intakes go out on these cars though. My friend had his go at 96,000 miles, and they rusted very bad in the midwest. Fuel pumps also would go out. My buddy had a 93 Ciera too with low mileage and his passenger door broke so it could not be opened from the inside or outside. Typical GM.

        • 0 avatar
          PrincipalDan

          Regarding the A-bodys – by the last 5 years or so of production they were very well screwed together, the guys on the assembly line could do it in their sleep (much like the end of W-body Impala production). However the component quality was sometimes lacking.

          And they did never get a brake proportioning valve so in panic braking situations the rear end could pivot around the front. Brake wear was also very uneven with front disks need to be replaced 3 or 4 times for every time the drums needed attention.

          And yes they were aggressive rusters.

          The biggest upsides were the roomy interiors for their wheelbase, the airy greenhouse, and the 15 cubic ft trunks that were very usable in shape.

          Signed,

          A 1982 Chevy Celebrity Owner

    • 0 avatar
      jack4x

      @Hummer,

      I agree with you, and I think the reason is that the “improvements” made to vehicles nowadays are usually to downsize the engine, add gears to the transmission, uglify the face, and add autonomous and/or fuel saving features. None of which make a vehicle more appealing to me.

      I admire the ones that hang on “past their prime”.

    • 0 avatar

      I would agree with Hummer. One angle to consider though. I am most likely in the minority on this, but I keep vehicles a long time – well over 200K miles. The fact that I can still buy a somewhat newer version of the model I am retiring is a positive for me. Back when I sold my 84 Shelby Charger there was no “new” Charger available for purchase. Had they put the late 90s concept into production I would have purchased that in a heartbeat. As it was I went to a used Escort wagon instead of an older version of the car I would rather have purchased.

      Due to life changes, when the Escort had rear strut mount issues I was able to ditch it and start driving my wife’s 98 Stratus. At that time, while there was a newer version of the Charger available, financially it was not possible. Just this month, after determining the Stratus should be let go due to structural issues i.e. rust, I purchased a new to me 2013 Charger and I couldn’t be happier with it. Yes it may be an old platform, but I like it’s looks and how it handles. I’m relatively certain this will be my last vehicle as I expect it to outlast me. But, if not, I hope there is a Charger available for purchase if it doesn’t outlast me.

    • 0 avatar
      DweezilSFV

      A long running platform is a virtue for consumers.

      It’s only a bloody negative for auto journalists trying to stay current themselves.

      But that asinine steamer trunk between the seats of the Armada really needs to go.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Exactly as Dweezil has said, old platforms are great for consumers, awful for the rats that get paid to write good things about new sh&tboxes that aren’t fit for road duty.

    • 0 avatar
      MoparRocker74

      Agreed. Changing something for the sake of change without a clear direction in how to address any shortcomings or push the parameters of its strong points is just asinine. The XJ Cherokee is a shining example of something that had seen ongoing refinement and would be a perfectly viable rig right now. It’s successors were downgraded to more pavement friendly at the cost of ruggedness and capability. The liberty was a decent truck on its own merits IF it was compared to the rest of the segment, same as the current Cherokee. But neither of those could be considered universally ‘better’ than the XJ. Unless a CRV/RAV4 etc is more your bag in the first place.

  • avatar
    PeriSoft

    Somebody’s gonna say it: The 370Z. It’s almost unchanged since 2009, and it was effectively only a mild refresh of the 350Z, which was itself almost unchanged since 2003. The outside is fine, but the tech and interior are pretty embarrassing at this point.

    On the bright side, it means my ’07 350Z is damn near current, and it’s a car you can buy new, right now, with a naturally aspirated V6, a stick, and hydraulic power steering. So maybe we shouldn’t complain.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      If I wanted a BRAND NEW 1990s (or early 2000s) sports car I’d buy a 370Z with manual trans. There is some purity in a car that is stuck a generation or two (in automotive terms) behind.

  • avatar
    Mike Beranek

    Oh jeez I got one- The Chevrolet Express (full-size van) has been around since 1995, and still for sale new! The generation before it was introduced in 1965, so I guess GM is on a 30-year schedule.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    Jeep Grand Cherokee, as much as I like it it’s only one model away from when I bought my last Grand and that was 15 years ago

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    I’d nominate the usual suspects…the Nissan Frontier and 370Z, Chrysler 300, and Dodge Challenger.

    Here’s what’s frustrating about these cases – the main issue with all of them is the interior, which could be updated significantly without breaking the bank. Take the 300, for example – it’s a damn legit car to drive, but the interior is now something like nine model years old. That alone is a no-buy proposition for me.

    These are all old platforms that the manufacturer likely paid off the R/D for YEARS ago – how much effort would it take to put a contemporary looking interior in them? Not much.

    Some folks like the unchanging nature of these models. Whatever. It just smacks of laziness to me. If I want an old design, I’ll buy an old car.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    I think the Tundra is due.

  • avatar
    MartyToo

    Picture of the white TLX makes my answer easy. But as it is often said “Be careful what you wish for.”

    The 2018 Accord was redone but the new form has a low hood which makes the V-6 an outcast and a somewhat lrs comfortable lower seating position.

    If the TLX were to lose the V-6 it would be less attractive to me. And while I don’t mind the low seat once I sit in NY friend’s Accord Touring, it is a bit harder to get my 67 year old bones out of the seat on arrival.

    Will Acura become a company only selling SUVs? Will Honda pay for innovation to the point that I’ll buy an Acura sedan?

    • 0 avatar

      That’s an ILX there. And I chose that photo because it’s another past-prime example. The ILX was refreshed for 2019, and is riding on a prior-gen Civic platform that’s been out of production for a while.

      • 0 avatar
        King of Eldorado

        Yes, the ILX is overdue for a replacement, but it’s actually a pretty good deal these days. With the Premium and Technology packages (leather, nav, 10-speaker audio, sunroof, 8-spd DC Auto, 201 hp…) its MSRP is still under 30K USD (I have no idea what they actually sell for). And IMO, it’s better looking than the overwrought Civic.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      Or Honda could knock us all on our rears and do a new TLX with 2.0T 6-speed manual and SH-AWD.

      But that’s probably the same possibility as me being elected Pope.

  • avatar
    stingray65

    Every car needs to be put out to pasture, because as climate experts Greta Thunberg and AOC tell us we only have 10-12 years to live unless we stop driving vehicles the emit greenhouse gases. And don’t think you are ok if you have taken advantage of subsidies to buy a Tesla or Leaf, because they are mostly powered by fossil fuels (representing about 85% of global energy use) and their battery production generates extra emissions. We also need to retire all aircraft and boats (except sailboats) because they also generate dangerous greenhouse gases that are killing all the children according to Greta.

    But don’t think you can just start walking to get around town, because your shoes are probably made from leather (animals emit methane) or synthetic fibers (made from oil), so your walking will need to be barefoot and please stop breathing because that also emits CO2 that is killing the children.

    • 0 avatar

      I’d like you to revisit our rules for commenting, and then stop making such flame-type comments.

      If you can’t stay on topic, don’t comment.

      Thanks.

      • 0 avatar
        stingray65

        Corey – what flame-type comment are you referring to? A 16 year old “expert on climate change” is invited to the UN, and she says the world is going to end and we are all killing children because we drive cars and fly planes. This would suggest that her Truth About Cars is that they should be eliminated, and millions of people demonstrated in support of her viewpoint. Your question is which cars should be eliminated, and her answer is all of them – so tell me where my statement is factually incorrect?

        • 0 avatar

          1) Comments are for sharing your own opinions, not citing someone who isn’t here and pretending that it has something to do with this QOTD.

          2) When you’re told to lay off, the answer is not to double-down on the garbage coming from your fingertips.

          3) You are banned.

          • 0 avatar
            300zx_guy

            wow, that was fast. I see all kinds of political comments made on ttac that don’t get the commenter banned, many much snarkier than this, so why the quick trigger finger on Stingray? Were there previous warnings?

    • 0 avatar
      Peter Gazis

      Stingray65

      Making a 16 year old girl.

      You’re pathetic.

      • 0 avatar
        ToddAtlasF1

        Pathetic is using a young fetal alcohol syndrome victim as the point of the communist spear. Remember when the Democrats said it was okay to punch sixteen year old Covington kids who turned out to be completely innocent? When they made enough death threats to Mini-AOC to send her into hiding? Stop expecting your lies to tie your adversaries’ hands.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Peter I’m sure you thought the same thing when the media ridiculed and lied about the 16 year old boy wearing the trump hat some months back.

        Frankly the Pedophrasty of any ideology is disgusting, however we’ve seen it in the past with Mao, Stalin, and Himmler with pictures everywhere to prove it. Her parents are disgusting people.

        • 0 avatar
          Peter Gazis

          Hummer/ToddAtlasF1

          You right wingers sure have some obscure references. Is this what passes for news on Fox?

          Hummer
          Himmler?

          The Nazis/Faciasts were right wing extremists.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            If you want to make believe that an artist, environmentalist, animal rights activist, identity politics leveraging, command-economy murderer with socialist in the name of his political party was different from every other leftist in history then that is fine. His death-count wasn’t 10% of what other socialists achieved while their loathsome puppets like yourself deflected and ignored. Nazis bad. Socialists are ten times worse and counting, and that’s only if you pretend that National Socialists aren’t a subset of socialists.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Peter, this isn’t a left right issue, using a disabled girl as a political pawn makes anyone supporting it a POS.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            What’s hilarious is that many of these right-wingers want to harken back to the 1950s-1960s of “Pax Americana” – an era before Civil Rights and ironically, a period in American history when the US was most like a “socialist state.”

            High top margin tax rate (above 90%) – which helped pay for things like higher education and subsidized home ownership (via the GI Bill), vast infrastructure projects (Interstate Highway System), and of course, paying down the WWII debt.

            Remember when paying down debt was actually considered conservative fiscal policy?

      • 0 avatar
        MoparRocker74

        ‘Pathetic’ is defending a moonbat buffoon with zero life experience on an emotional tirade in which she’s 110% wrong about everything.

        For those who agree with her or the whole ruse of man made climate change (as opposed to the earth just well, earthing as normal) I propose you open your own wallets, send in your tax dollars and YOU give up your conveniences then simply shut up. You live your life as you see fit the rest of us will live ours without those burdens and it’ll shake out how it shakes out.

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      Thanks for your valuable opinion.

  • avatar
    pale ghost

    How about the exact opposite mistake? GM drops models after they finally get them right and thoroughly debugged.

    • 0 avatar
      jalop1991

      “How about the exact opposite mistake? GM drops models after they finally get them right and thoroughly debugged.”

      The poster child for which is the Pontiac Fiero.

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    This poses an interesting question and/or debate. The two primary manufacturers in the comment section are Nissan and FCA. Both having financial troubles, for quite some time it seems, yet able to continue selling.

    Perhaps the profitable ones should follow suit and determine if the constant refresh is worth the effort. As noted, the Frontier still sells and is not much different than the one you could buy in 2005.

    Too bad we can’t get a Ford Ranger (old version that was sold from 92-10 or so), maybe with an eco boost 4 mil for some economy and power and at a price point that wouldn’t make the F150 more appealing.

    Here is a question, what models were updated into extinction or into a price point that forces the masses into the used market, that could have soldiered on ala 4Runner, Frontier, Z car, Express Van?

    Maxima comes to mind as a car that was updated into extinction, what are those these days, 40K+? yeah pass, late 20’s perhaps.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    I kind of chuckle when I think back to the days of my youth when the sheet metal changed EVERY year. And it was done with pencil on mylar, slide rules, and skilled tradesmen grinding on die metal.

    Now we have CAD and CNC and 6 year cycles (of course the fed gov had a bit to say in that also via certification tests).

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      Looking back, that was pretty amazing yet I’m sure very expensive for the manufacturers and aggravating to the consumer who had last year’s model (imagine the chagrin of the 1956 Plymouth or 1958 Chevy owner!!).

      Personally I like the 5-6 year cycles, with a “refresh” at year 4 or 5. I like it better when model replacement has minimal changes so you can see the continuity of the model. I was disappointed with the last RX redesign – I thought the prior generation had subtle purpose to it’s design, and Lexus went off in a whole different modern direction. But I don’t think the whole floating roof concept will age well….

      The new Mazda3 hatchback is the same….you had a great organic concept going, why suddenly take it in a new direction.

      • 0 avatar
        Featherston

        One might wrongly infer from your “won’t age well” comment that the RX’s floating roof looked good even when new. ;-)

        Totally agree regarding the Mazda3. I like–at least within the context of the 2010s market–the KODO design language, but Mazda has managed to Velosterize it with the BP generation. Furthermore, I tried the sit-behind-myself test at an autoshow, and the hatch actually has worse headroom than the sedan. One of the nice things about four-door hatches is that they typically have decent headroom (at least by the low standards of the 2010s) – not true of the current 3, though.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    As has been mentioned the Charger/Challenger/300 – I would actually look forward to an updated version as long as they don’t ruin it.

    Do the V6 eTorque system as the base option, add AWD back to the V8 models, give us Chrysler 300 with 6.4 ltr Hemi, and keep the 6 speed manual option in at least some of the V8 models and add it to the Charger.

    • 0 avatar

      IIRC the 300 was going on an Alfa platform with the Giulia. I can’t see how that would be as large a car though.

    • 0 avatar
      MoparRocker74

      What the LXs definitely DONT need is hybrid tech infecting them. Preferably not at all but definitely not as a mandatory thing with the V6. More $$ upfront and questionable ROI…these are good for 30mpg hwy real world. The minimal demand will never pay for the investment.

      Agreed the 300 needs the 392. 345 Hemi should be over 400 hp by now and awd/345 should be available on all LXs.

      Instead of a TTv6 that’s comparable to a v8 how about a twin turbo 345 Hemi, and crush the ecobust?

      Bring back the Magnum, with the option of a awd crossoverized version. I really want an LX based Aussie style ute. Perfect foul for the all offroad Gladiator.

      Challenger with true hardtop style quarter windows and maybe some ‘71-‘74 Charger/Roadrunner styling cues this time.

      AWD Redeye.

  • avatar
    B Buckner

    When I went from my 03 Audi a4 to an 09, power went up by third and gas mileage higher by 10 percent due to new engine and transmission. My 2016 BMW 340 has 50 percent more power and gets 10 percent better gas mileage than the 09 Audi. Benefits of newer tech.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    A) Some of the best and most successful vehicles in history have had long model runs. It is good for debugging (quality) and profit (sustainability) and parts availability.

    B) Minor refreshes tend to be weak.

    C) When introducing a completely new model, manufacturers usually change the wrong things.

  • avatar
    TMA1

    I won’t repeat some of the well thought out examples above. So I’ll go with the Ford’s Ranger and Ecosport. Two models that have been around for years, designed for the third world, and sold in the US as something new and special without bothering to make the vehicles worthy of our market.

  • avatar
    ajla

    Outside of an aluminum block V8, I wouldn’t really change much about the design, chassis, or platform of the LX cars.

    The big issue with them is the quality. Some of the problems I had with my Charger seem like bad luck, but other issues (especially with fit/finish & material durability) look to be much more common trouble spots. Which is a shame because they are fun cars and a unique offering these days.

  • avatar
    dwford

    Every automaker has an old soul or 2 still for sale that just seem to get lost in the shuffle. Acura has the ILX, Audi the R8, Chrysler the 200, Dodge the Charger, Challenger, and especially the Journey, Ford until recently had the Expedition, Explorer and Taurus, and the Super Duty trucks, Toyota has the Tundra, Tacoma and 4Runner, etc.

    How individual models at these automakers seem to defy age (or maybe just management interest) I don’t understand.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      The journey for example is the cheapest way to get 3 rows, it’s cheaper than much crappier products from Honda, GM, and Ford.

      Why do I want to pay more for a worse product? Same goes with the Charger being a better value than almost anything under $60k. 4Runner has 1 competitor, it needs competition.

      • 0 avatar

        I respect the Journey for what it is. I wouldn’t go after one, but I see why people do. It even proved itself to picky Europeans.

        • 0 avatar
          PrincipalDan

          Disposable kid hauler with a scratch resistant interior with occasional use 3rd row? Low monthly payment so you have more money to spend on necessities? Optional V6 AWD so it can get out of its own way? Driver doesn’t really care about driving dynamics?

          Journey all the way.

          • 0 avatar

            I also support Pentastar 3.6. A good engine, though not as refined as Toyota 3.5. It’s easily nicer than any VQ after the 3.0. and I’ve never been in a recent V6 Honda or Ford product.

          • 0 avatar
            PrincipalDan

            To add to your argument the Pentastar is still port injected which means no DI carbon build up issues for the family that wants to drive it 100,000 or 200,000 miles.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    A friend of ours had the Infiniti version of one of these, and I drove it on a ski vacation a few years ago. I absolutely loved it. Powerful, V8 sound, great seats, great stereo. Totally understand the appeal of them. They have 3 boys, so for them it’s a minivan replacement, especially when hauling friends along. Even then the tech was lame, but it drove so well I didn’t care.

    They traded it on for a minivan which is more practical and likely cut their fuel bill by 30-40%.

  • avatar
    ToddAtlasF1

    Most of the models listed here are old because there is no business case for replacing them. They’re in segments that will be killed by CAFE standards before a new model could be amortized, or they sell in such small numbers that it is unlikely that a new model would sell well enough to make money. Enjoy them while they’re available, as it will be a poorer world without them.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    The Frontier is old but is still a good platform with some updates. Even if Nissan introduces a new replacement it would be good to keep the old Frontier as a value buy similar to the Classic Ram and the New Ram. Keep offering a manual in the Frontier for the base model.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      At $18k for a base Frontier it’s is the only midsize truck that makes sense over just going full-size imo. Honestly I think $18k is high for a small truck but it puts the Colorado, Ranger, and Tacoma to shame price wise.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        I prefer the Frontier on the top-end.

        Frontier Pro4X V6 manual crew cab loaded up and still under 40K with transaction prices less than MSRP. Try to get a Toyota dealer to cut a good deal on a Tacoma TRD-PRO… lol

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          I already posted this here but I looked up a base Tacoma on cars.com with two options, 4wd, and rear jump seats in the half cab, it was a $30k truck with a 4cyl.

          It’s beyond ridiculous that they would ask 30k for a near base truck with 2 options. At that price it’s stupid not to get the gladiator with the V6.

          Small truck prices are extremely unattractive and aspirational. There’s a reason Frontier sales stay decently strong, and honestly unless they’re going to move down there’s no sense in them replacing the current truck.

          I believe the base frontier now has apple car play as well. Unless your an interior snob the frontier is the way to go.

          • 0 avatar
            conundrum

            I agree the Frontier should stay about the same to keep the price low. My brother has one, four cylinder, and it gets the job done so long as it isn’t snowy. Then they take the AWD car because the truck can’t get out of their uphill driveway.

            The one terrible flaw of the vehicle is the steering. It feels like trying to turn a six inch wide, six inch long paddle in a vat of prefrozen 75W-90 gear oil. You wrench on this atrocity through abject syrupiness, and only get enough turning well after the point you normally expect. I know, practise and all that, but the thing is the opposite of agile in a parking lot or making tight right turns off a road.

  • avatar
    StudeDude

    The Infinti Q70 dating back to the M series has been out there a long time.

  • avatar
    STS_Endeavour

    I like the RLX on the inside. Outside, not much at all. Plus 300hp seems a little anemic these days (I shouldn’t talk, since the v8 in my car only puts out 224hp on a good day). Given that ILX and TLX have also been mentioned here as well, it looks like Acura itself is in need of an overhaul. Or maybe it’s time to put the old dog down. :\'(

  • avatar
    MartyToo

    Acura and/or Honda don’t offer much in the fun category if the driver is over 40. My’13 Accord V-6 coupe and my buddy’s ’14 Coupe are going to see more years on the road even though both of us can afford anything Acura/Honda offers (though my wife would veto an NSX).

    Why trade in something I love for something that I will give a Meh to?

    I love the V-6 which delivers over 30 mpg cruising on the interstates and has more power than I need. And no worries regarding repairs make keeping it a certainty.

    A 2 door AWD Acura would be irresistible but that will only happen in my dreams.

  • avatar
    northshoreman1

    Discussions about chassis age/features/need for updates somewhat amuse me. If the vehicle is fulfilling its function is change just “because it’s time” or “long in the tooth” really necessary?
    Chrysler products seem to take the brunt of this criticism (and yeah, I agree that the interior needs some updating, but….). And yet, as I recall, the Toyota Camry was using a chassis design dating from 2002. Yup, there’d been some minor updates through the years, but same design until the release of the new model (2017? 2018?), that information was never reported, or only reported in one or two auto magazines.
    Was the Camry’s 2002 chassis that much better than the Charger/300 in 2005? Or is it simply bias, based on “the Camry’s reliability”? I don’t know–but if Toyota can get away with the lack of substantive updates, why shouldn’t Chrysler? But Chrysler gets nailed every other breath and Toyota gets a pass. And along the way, Chrysler did make upgrades and changes–they’ve not been totally static.
    (BTW, the chassis age/dates are based on my failing memory…I’d only read that info in ONE auto mag, and (apparently) missed it if it was in any other story.)

  • avatar
    markf

    4Runner, good lord can we get a modern transmission……….

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