By on September 13, 2018

2017 Honda Clarity Fuel Cell Exterior Profile, Image: © 2017 Steph Willems/The Truth About Cars

They’re the rarest breed on the road, drawing their car’s fuel source from the world’s most plentiful element — which just happens to be the hardest to get your hands on in any large quantity. Fuel cell vehicle drivers, of which none exist outside of California, depend on a small network of H2 refueling stations to stay on the road, and the drawbacks to using this rare power source are already well documented.

You’ll be renting a car if your road trip takes you too far from San Francisco or the SoCal area. Supply issues sometimes leaves that one nearby station out of service, as happened earlier this year. It’s almost as if a vehicle you plug into a wall is a better green idea, at least on the downstream side.

Regardless, these Honda Clarity FC, Toyota Mirai, and Hyundai Tucson FC owners made their bed and were prepared to lie in it. Unfortunately for them, the refueling network has once again revealed its fragility.

As revealed by Tire Meets Road, it isn’t just supply issues affecting the H2 pumps. The unique nature of H2 stations means the need for maintenance is greater than, say, your local Mobil or Shell station. And, when enough of the single-vehicle H2 stations are out of commission, it puts pressure on the ones that remain.

The hydrogen tanks at these stations can only fill about 40-50 vehicles before running dry, after which it’s an arduous process to compress the delivered hydrogen on-site. California currently has 33 stations in the two geographical areas, serving roughly 4,200 drivers (as of April). There’s also one in Sacramento and another bridging L.A. and San Fran.

Right now, drivers in the SoCal area are probably considering taking their spouse’s Prius to work. With six of the region’s H2 stations out of service for maintenance, increased demand has led three more to go dry, leaving just 11 stations for the entire area spanning from Santa Barbara in the north to Del Mar in the south.

2017 Honda Clarity Fuel Cell Exterior Rear 3/4, Image: © 2017 Steph Willems/The Truth About Cars

While some of the shutdowns are due to routine maintenance that can go overlong, a broken compressor — the cause of one of the shutdowns — can lead to a much longer wait. That part must be sourced from overseas.

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles create their own electricity from a chemical reaction; essentially, they’re an electric car with an onboard powerplant feeding the juice directly to the electric motor. In the early years of the 21st century, as the first hybrid cars were just beginning to appear on North American roads, the fuel’s potential led to big headlines about a future powered by hydrogen. However, in the ensuing years, interest in electrification quickly overtook fuel cells. It’s a lot easier to generate electricity and deliver it to the consumer than pull hydrogen out of the environment. The fledgling H2 network shows it.

While a few automakers still hedge their bets and include hydrogen in their green vehicle stable, the industry has more or less decided that electrification is the way of the future. A quick search of the U.S. Department of Energy website shows 18,644 electric vehicle charging stations in the U.S.

[Images: Steph Willems/TTAC]

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

Recommended

56 Comments on “It’s Frustrating Times for Owners of Hydrogen-powered Cars...”


  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    It’s Frustrating Times for Owners of Hydrogen-powered Cars

    Let’s have a moment of silence to take pity on all 2 of them.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      LOL, you beat me to it.

      I like the idea of hydrogen powered cars, though. And if the energy generation grid ever updates to something approaching 100% renewable, I think it’d make all kinds of sense.

      • 0 avatar
        Joe Enrico

        Except for the fact that almost all the hydrogen is sourced from natural gas; so much for the renewable myth.

        • 0 avatar
          stingray65

          Joe – Lets not rain on the zero emission parade of hydrogen junkies by giving them inconvenient facts. I mean, that would be like telling EV owners that they are driving coal powered cars.

          • 0 avatar
            FormerFF

            The share of electricity generated by coal has been declining for years.

          • 0 avatar
            bullnuke

            Less coal than natural gas for electricity generation. EV’s are natural gas powered vehicles with a .0001% boost on windy days from wind turbine generation.

          • 0 avatar
            stingray65

            Latest figure that I could find was 2015 – where 39.3% of global electricity production was generated by coal, 22.9% from natural gas, and 4.1% from oil – I think it is safe to say that EVs are primarily fueled by carbon-based sources.

            https://www.statista.com/statistics/269811/world-electricity-production-by-energy-source/

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @stingray: More misleading propaganda from you.

            You have to look at the power source where a majority of EVs are sold, not worldwide production. California has no coal plants. Massachusetts has no coal plants. Coal is no longer economically viable and it’s disappearing quickly from the power grid. Cheap natural gas did it in.

    • 0 avatar
      Pam Hall

      Because the rest of us love them.

      Everyone who visits us wants to take a ride. Our favorite car yet. Zero issues in Nor Cal for us.

  • avatar
    TrailerTrash

    This whole EV/Hydro environmental things driving me nuts.

    Much like the global questioning of the man-made warming argument has transformed to just you are in denial of global warming as if that’s even possible if you know anything about history!!.

    And how the recycling argument and its pollution causing is turned into you are a hater of the environment.

    Here we have the true believers in denial of the cost of electrical production and IF production and distribution of the electricity are even possible should we suddenly want EVs. We won’t even get into the battery production and recycling environmental points.

    But does anybody REALLY know about hydrogen production around here?
    Does anybody realize the pollution from this?

    I’m gonna keep investing in my oil and distribution stocks since the knuckleheads will eventually get hit up along the head of reality soon.

    • 0 avatar
      MoparRocker74

      Whenever you ‘go green’, you give up something and you pay FAR out the ass for it. The only appeal is for virtue signaling kool aid drinkers who have no real accomplishments in their lives. How does an underachieving loser fill an empty trophy room? Why, of course you go all hellbent on recycling and driving obnoxoiously slow ugly cars so you can shriek like rabid moonbat how much YOU CAAAAARREEEE oh so much more than everyone else around you. Make a quick mental note of everyone you see driving greenie mobiles. They aren’t the star quarterbacks, purple heart in Iraq veterans, the owners of beauty salons, or the successful entrepeneurs. If youre single, you will NOT be looking for an attractive member of the opposite sex driving one of these things.

      • 0 avatar
        Pam Hall

        My brother-in-law was doing the math and became very envious when he figured out the net cost for our three year lease. We love this car. I had a bone marrow transplant and wanted my husband to get something fun and different after all the time he spent caring for me. My single son who works in the Bay Area thought it was a cool car when he test drove it before we’d ever seen one. There’s nothing we don’t like about our Clarity. Our horse boarder who uses our barn drives a Maserati and she wants to get one next. No haters here.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        @MoparRocker74: They aren’t the star quarterbacks,

        I saw about 3 Teslas, 2 S’s and 1 X in the player’s parking lot at my local NFL stadium.

        Average transaction price on a Model 3 is $60k, so they must be working minimum wage jobs. right? How about the S’s and X? $100k cars. Yeah, no one successful buying those.

        To see who is buying these things, maybe you should search tesla and drag racing on youtube. Sure, there are people buying electrics for green purposes. I actually met one once. The rest of us are after the ultimate in performance.

  • avatar
    ajla

    “The hydrogen tanks at these stations can only fill about 40-50 vehicles before running dry, after which it’s an arduous process to compress the delivered hydrogen on-site.”

    Call me crazy, but hydrogen might not be a mass market solution.

    • 0 avatar
      TwoBelugas

      Relax, the perfect hydrogen extraction method that is net energy positive is only about 5 years away, right about the time the replacement for lithium based batteries becomes available in viable quantity and cost.

      • 0 avatar
        stingray65

        You mean that “just around the corner” 9 volt sized battery made from sand, water, and air, that gives and SUV sized vehicle 1,000 miles of range, can be fully recharged with normal household current in 30 seconds, and costs $4 to produce?

        • 0 avatar
          TwoBelugas

          I have not heard of that particular one. We better lobby the federal government to throw a few billions at it and raise CAFE to 75mpg while you are at it, because science.

  • avatar
    Lemmiwinks

    cisco

  • avatar
    Fred

    If you are buying a hydrogen or even an electric car without considering refueling, then it’s your own dang fault. I shouldn’t be surprised, most don’t check on insurance costs before they buy either.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    I’m not going to go into the EV vs Hydrogen argument, the political argument or even the Climate Denial argument; most people here already know my views on that. I’m going to stick just to hydrogen supply issues in this statement.

    Probably the biggest factor in hydrogen supply as currently intended for personally-operated vehicles (POVs) is that attempting the distributed sourcing–meaning generation at each retail location–is both expensive and inefficient. Each station is forced to use more electricity than necessary just to maintain basic supply levels and, as described in the article, can’t even keep up with demand, especially if there is a breakdown of any sort.

    The ONLY way this can be made more efficient AND more cost effective is if these stations are directly fed by a fuel refining and distribution system similar to gasoline and diesel. In other words, a centralized refining and storage facility that trucks the hydrogen to the site, rather than attempting to generate and/or compress at each station. There is far less risk of component failure because at industrial levels, the equipment is larger and more robust–able to operate at hundreds of times the rate of an on-site unit. A centralized facility can also have multiple units in operation simultaneously so a breakdown on one is less likely to significantly impact capacity. Numerous chemical gasses companies have been isolating and compressing hydrogen for decades–in fact, for over a century. After all, hydrogen is used not only as a fuel but also for its buoyancy, lifting science and meteorological instruments higher into the air than even helium can manage. So a centralized hydrogen compression facility only makes economic sense.

    However, there are drawbacks to this system similar to those of liquid fuel distribution; transporting the fuel can be dangerous and refilling empty tanks at the individual station will be susceptible to unique hazards over and above the already-extant hazards of dropping a load of gasoline into those underground tanks. The risk of a catastrophic event will be higher, even if only marginally. That said, it’s still safer than generating it on-site outside of the fact that on-site generation results in a more limited event.

    And no, I personally don’t agree with the idea of piping it to those stations, either. Just a few days ago in Pennsylvania, on 10 September, a Natural Gas line exploded… with towering flames that lit up the night sky for miles. No one injured, fortunately, but pipelines seems to be inordinately fragile, lately.

    So if you’re going to make hydrogen a POV fuel, then a distribution system similar to current liquid fuels seems to be the easiest, cheapest, most reliable and likely the overall safest method.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      FYI – I believe the PA gas line that blew up was a brand new line which ruptured due to a rain-induced landslide. But to your point, we here in PA have no shortage of fragile, rusty natural gas lines.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    More issues with hydrogen:

    1. You never know how much you’re actually going to get when you fill up. Sometimes the dispensers freeze up and refuse to fill your tank. You also have to be careful to avoid frostbite.

    2. The operating cost is similar to driving a Hellcat – no joke. Automotive hydrogen is very expensive, vehicle performance is sluggish, and the fuel economy isn’t high enough to make them cheap to operate.

  • avatar
    Yankee

    I think it’s important to put this technology in perspective. Hybrids in general are an evolutionary (not revolutionary) attempt at updating a transportation mode that hasn’t changed much in terms of basic design in over 130 years. They are rolling experiments, but worthwhile for that purpose alone. Battery technology is far from environmentally friendly in terms of rare mineral needs for production and the complexity of disposal. But automakers and consumers alike are learning from hybrids, fuel cells, and full-electric vehicles what is possible and what the challenges are. I’m not of sufficient means to be one of their beta testers, but let’s not hate those who are willing to try something new for the sake of something truly better in the future. Part of my job involves training and certifying vehicle emissions inspectors, and I can’t wait to be out of a job. Right now electric vehicles of whatever type are just moving the source of pollution from the tailpipe to the coal-fired power plant. But if the day comes when electric power becomes sustainable, practical, and affordable for vehicles for regular people, we are going to have some fun cars (flat torque curve = instant power with no peaks) with less moving parts to break. This is nothing to be afraid of.

    • 0 avatar
      George B

      Yankee, the gasoline electric hybrid has several evolutionary changes working together to make a drop-in replacement for a standard gasoline engine car. The low rpm torque from the electric motor allows the gasoline engine to use Atkinson-cycle for better thermal efficiency, regenerative braking uses energy normally wasted as heat to help recharge the battery, and the car can creep forward in heavy traffic with the gasoline engine off. The beauty of this combination of evolutionary changes is the hybrid doesn’t require any new fuel delivery system or special actions by the consumer. If the cost of the battery and electric motor generators was low enough relative to fuel cost savings, hybrids could rapidly become a significant percentage of vehicle sales. In contrast, fuel cell vehicles and plug in electric vehicles require new, separate refueling infrastructure and new, different refueling actions by consumers.

  • avatar
    pbx

    Going against the common wisdom shown here, my city, Vancouver, has just opened a hydrogen fueling station with six more on tap. Additionally, a local company called Ballard Power has supplied hydrogen-electric buses to Coachella Valley, San Francisco and greater Los Angeles over the last few years.

    • 0 avatar
      Jagboi

      Ballard did buses 20 years ago. I used to work with the Chief Engineer for Ballard who invented the bus.

      What worked for Ballard was the CXY Chemical plant was close to the North Van transit garage, and CXY made soap and caustic soda. Hydrogen is a byproduct of making soap and caustic, so instead of flaring off the waste hydrogen, the put a pipeline across the street to fuel the buses.

      The slight difficulty is not all of us have a soap factory across the street from where we need to fuel our vehicles.

      • 0 avatar
        TDIandThen....

        Vancouver just opened its second retail / consumer station. There’s actually a thriving little hydrogen cluster in the GVRD, and hydrogen in small quantities is produced these one-off ways but the industrial scale stuff is linked to hydropower. Carbon-free ‘green’ hydrogen will be dominant in future and Ballard is mostly supplying Chinese markets these days. Enbridge in Ontario is already running an experimental hydrogen production plant and injecting hydrogen into its pipelines at Markham iirc.

  • avatar
    Michael500

    The real truth: “Big ICE” is killing the hydrogen car! FCA has created a conspiracy to make interesting cars like Charger & Challenger Hellcats for men. This leaves only the men who are afraid of their wives to buy these cars. The truth will set you free!

  • avatar
    sirwired

    “They’re the rarest breed on the road, drawing their car’s fuel source from the world’s most plentiful element ”

    Hydrogen is the universe’s most plentiful element, but the most plentiful element on Earth itself is Iron. It’s not even close; Hydrogen is a rounding error by comparison.

  • avatar
    PandaBear

    The only way I saw how this MAY work ok, is to lease one of these cars with the $15k hydrogen fuel subsidized by the manufacturer. You then quickly use up these $15k of expensive hydrogen (probably within 1 years) for your business driving need, then you return the car early back to the manufacturer (you still have to finish the payments). This wins over EV in refueling speed so your car is not down for too long, but would still be competitive cost wise.

    With hydrogen station reliability, it may not be worth it.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    Cause it seems to come up every time; away I go. I know guys who jumped out of airplanes/could call in airstrikes/easily pass the close quarter shooting quals. Between these guys are a couple of Prius’, a Tesla, and a New Beetle convertible. These guys may be outliers but I get so tired of the MAGA-hat crowd tying to stereotype Prius/Tesla/”Unmanly Car” drivers every time an alt-fuel article is posted. -evil grin- Although I’d like to be selling 4wd trucks and V-8 muscle cars outside any military base.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    I wonder how many people realize that even The Arnold drives a BEV?

    • 0 avatar
      Lockstops

      Arnold had makeup put on him and then he _pretended_ to be a badass and hero, stood in front of media equipment and displayed an alternate reality for people in order to have those people make him rich. In real life he’s a cowardly cheating hypocritical commie. So BEV sounds about right…

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        Who cares how he got his money; the simple point is that he has influence because of his history in acting and in politics. If he chooses to drive a BEV… nay, more than drive one, have an existing vehicle modified to full BEV capability (Hummer, anyone? Rover?) then he’s making a very clear point.

        You may not like BEVs… that’s fine. Maybe you’ll die of old age before they’re ubiquitous… or not. BEVs are proving themselves capable of normal, everyday driving with performance enough to satisfy most, if not all, drivers. It’s now a matter of getting enough variety of styles to meet demand and improving the technology for more range and faster charging.

        • 0 avatar
          Lockstops

          Haha, nice cop-out! (Not really, that was pretty damn pathetic actually)

          You tried to paint ‘The Arnold’ as a manly hero who is an influencer to all manly heroes and aspiring heroes. But he’s just another loser, anti-hero, un-manly conman. Everything about his image is fake. And hence no surprise he’s a leftist, trying to virtue signal though he’s the exact opposite of virtuous in everything.

          His only ‘clear point’ in modifying a Hummer into BEV is that he’s going even further in his conning people.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            *Shakes head*

            Try to be reasonable and this is what you get. I pity you, Ls. Enjoy whatever life you have left. After this, I will not respond to any more of your commentary until you get that chip off your shoulder.

        • 0 avatar
          Lockstops

          I think that’s for the best. The less you post, the less you embarrass yourself.

          Though I would like to know more about your hero Arnold and how he’s saving the world by converting Hummers into BEVs and parking them on the driveways of his mansions while he flies around the world saving CO2 at luxury resorts?

          He’s really good at putting on makeup and pretending to be a hero.

  • avatar
    Pam Hall

    I love our Honda Clarity. In Northern California we have not encountered any problems finding fuel. We have had zero issues or unexpected costs with the car. I’m sorry that there have been hydrogen shortages affecting drivers in Southern California. That would annoy me too. I heard about the DMV not sending out renewal registration notices because the engine type was not an option but now that we have a heads up we will make sure that gets taken care of before it’s due. We couldn’t be happier. We waited extra for the cherry red one and everyone comments on it.

  • avatar
    Lemmiwinks

    My goodness. This room reads like an echo chamber railing against the perceived ills and dangers tied to fuels propelling the horseless carriage.

    This is not the end of the road, ladies and gentlemen. Let the technology and ecosystem evolve.

    ffs

    • 0 avatar
      Jagboi

      There are very large technical and safety challenges to using hydrogen for fuel. It’s also not a good thing to put your head in the sand and say everything is going to be fine.

      • 0 avatar
        Lemmiwinks

        It’s also not a good thing to stagnate, avoid innovation, and/or give up because one can’t comprehend that for every problem there’s potential to find a solution on the horizon.

        Seriously. There were large technical and safety challenges to using petroleum and gasoline as fuel. Do you think the ability to do so safely and efficiently was readily apparent and available at the idea’s inception?

        • 0 avatar
          Jagboi

          I’ve worked in R&D at a fuel cell company, I know quite a bit about using hydrogen as fuel, the challenges are much greater than using petroleum was in 1900.

          Based on my experience, I don’t think hydrogen will ever be a commercially viable fuel for the general public to use, there are alternatives that are safer and cheaper. It’s not about “stagnation” or
          avoiding innovation” it’s recognizing inherent limitations and seeing that better alternatives exist.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            I can see fuel cells (hydrogen) being used in commercial transportation; especially Class VI trucks and up, railroads and bussing–both commercial and metropolitan. I can’t see, at least in the near future, where fuel cells can ever be an economical or even viable choice for personally-operated vehicles. Even the fuel-cell-modified Chevy Colorado has the engine compartment inordinately stuffed and the hood appears more bulged…higher… than factory stock. This means that to meet the needs, the fuel cell plates require more stacks than anything smaller can effectively carry.

            Oh, there will be some few POVs that require something similar but these will be specialist vehicles intended for remote operations similar to the above Colorado testing unit. A full-sized pickup would have probably been a much better choice as it has more available room for the stack and fuel storage on board.

      • 0 avatar
        Lockstops

        Hey, why not do ‘a Tesla’ and sink in a few hundred billion of stupid investors’ and taxpayers’ money to make it seem almost viable for a while? I’m sure that would buy a pretty good hydrogen filling station network.

    • 0 avatar
      TDIandThen....

      Well said. I have done some consulting for the hydrogen industry and it’s on its way. Not really for personal small cars but you know, they will be able to reap some benefits in five or ten years once remote power, big agriculture, and mining industries finish building out the capacities.

  • avatar
    Sub-600

    Hydrogen car owners signal virtue hardcore. They make man-bun pajama boi Prius drivers look like coal rollers.

  • avatar
    WallMeerkat

    On that Honda itself, to me it looks like a 21st century Citroen BX.

    It is the kind of thing the French should be making, even with an ICE/bybrid, instead of jumping on the crossover bandwagon like everyone else.

  • avatar
    TDIandThen....

    As usual with discussion of the big H, there’s a lot of almost-correct statements here. Here’s some things I discovered when consulting for hydrogen infrastructure companies:

    * hydrogen is used predominantly in fertilizer (well, ammonia used in fertilizers), metals refining, and hydrogenation of fats and oils. Not fuel cells.
    * small vehicles will not lead the hydrogen industry to decarbonized or large supply or infrastructure build-out. Too much chicken and egg and many independent variables.
    * Japan is committed to hydrogen because a) it’s science-y and Japanese energy policy loves that stuff and b) the country has basically no energy production itself aside from nuclear and has to import all its fuels. Korea has similar issues. H for small vehicles is important and Toyota / Honda / Hyundai are not screwing around.
    * long distance hydrogen trucking (and ferries) make a lot more sense for transport – Annheiser – Busch is running a large portion of its shipping in the western US using hydrogen-fuel-cell powered trucks after ordering a few hundred this year.
    * remote operations such as backup power for cell phone and microwave towers, pipeline pumping, and Arctic or military hamlets form some interesting and sometimes substantial markets. There is a cluster of companies in the Vancouver area working away at the tech.
    * Canada is coming out with a clean fuel standard next year which will push decarbonization of fuels for industrial users in a serious way – first time basically outside of Quebec.
    * Canada has about 55% of its electricity from hydropower and another ~5% from non-emmitting nuclear, wind and solar sources. (If the US were serious about decarbonising it would have long ago signed contracts to source all of Canada’s hydropower and build more while electrifying its cities.).
    * Overnight most of Canada’s carbon-free capacity is idle, leading to a huge over-capacity for generators; hydrogen through electrolysis using this low-cost overnight electricity can provide carbon-free hydrogen for the continent for some decades – about 90% of Canada’s hydropower capacity is un-built at the moment.

    • 0 avatar
      rpn453

      Regarding the final point, I can only speak for Saskatchewan but we typically do not have overcapacity in our hydro here, and I don’t believe Manitoba does either. Technically, you could say the generators have overcapacity because we do not have enough water to run them constantly year-round.

      When Manitoba has a surplus we buy as much as possible because it is cheaper even than our own inexpensive coal power, but again there are limits to the amount of water available and it is managed.

      I don’t doubt that more dams could be developed. But building dams is also quite energy intensive and has environmental effects. Much of the potential is in remote areas that would be very expensive to connect to the grid. The U.S. and Canada already trade power as necessary.

      You’re making it sound like we have an energy source that is being wasted rather than having potential energy sources that are not economically feasible to develop at the moment.

      • 0 avatar
        TDIandThen....

        You make good points and I’m also right. :)

        Manitoba doesn’t have massive idle capacity overnight but the entire MB Hydro customer base is smaller than Toronto Hydro – which does have some idle overnight capacity. Québec and now Newfoundland have large overnight capacity issues, and while it’s much more economical to build new transmission than new dams, new dams can also be amortized over a century.

        Advances in High Voltage DC transmission this past decade make it more economical to cover massive distance – eg Quebec to California – as well. Or hydrogen (oh yeah, the topic!) can be transported in pipeline or as ammonia.

        All to say sure, some investment required, but it’s not like there’s no path to affordable green hydrogen for N America and it’s not like new dams or transmission infra need be built.

        As usual it’s far too easy to pick one fact – most hydrogen is made from NatGas for example – and jump up and down rather than go for the complex truth.

      • 0 avatar
        TDIandThen....

        You make good points and I’m also right. :)

        Manitoba doesn’t have massive idle capacity overnight but the entire MB Hydro customer base is smaller than Toronto Hydro – which does have some idle overnight capacity. The large systems in BC and Québec and now Newfoundland have overnight capacity issues, and while it’s more economical to build new transmission than new dams, new dams can also be amortized over a century.

        Advances in High Voltage DC transmission this past decade also make it more economical to cover massive distance – eg Quebec to California – as well. Or hydrogen (oh yeah, the topic!) can be transported in pipeline or as ammonia.

        All to say sure, some investment required, but it’s not like there’s no path to affordable green hydrogen for N America and it’s not like new dams or transmission infra need be built to do it besides a electrolysis plants.

        As usual it’s far too easy to pick one fact – most hydrogen is made from NatGas for example – and jump up and down rather than go for the complex truth.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    You’d have to be a fool to not consider leasing a Clarity fuel cell if you live in California.

    $2800 down with a $380/mo payment and they give you a $15k credit to use on hydrogen fuel – enough for the 36 month lease – and 3 weeks rental car for times when you need to travel out of the local areas.

    You get a 5k stipend from the state and carpool tag. That stipend pays for your down payment and about 1/2 of the tax.

    My number crunching says this ride would cost me $230/mo after factoring in the credit I get for not buying fuel in addition to the lease.

    I drove it at the LA car show 2 years ago. It felt like any other electric car, but the materials, infotainment, seat comfort were all good.

    Haven’t driven the Toyota or Hyundai hydrogen cars, so I can’t speak to those.

    The hate H is getting is strange considering the cost to the customer.

  • avatar
    phxmotor

    Years ago I was doing work with Marhwoeks and Ford and the Lawrence Lvermore Lab. The conclusion about hydrogen boiled down this (was compressed down to this) to this: as a fuel for mobile transportation Hydrogen can NEVER COMPETE with its’ power source.
    IE: The gargantuan amount of Electricity needed to separate O2 and H .. added to the electricity needed to compress H for storage … well… it needs no further explanation… the average normal human being type person can figure out the rest all by themselves.

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • StudeDude: I agree with you regarding the effects dirty coolant might have. Which brings me to ask how an engine with...
  • JMII: I think all these luxury / high end SUVs has increased their overall brand awareness. Before people with money...
  • MorrisGray: I like to buy new cars whether my income is $30k or $60k, but I tend to keep them for a while like the...
  • 1500cc: “quick perusal” is an oxymoron /pedant
  • jkross22: To TTAC censors, I apologize in advance. Hey Debbie, go eff yourself. You and the other street walkers...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Staff

  • Contributors

  • Timothy Cain, Canada
  • Matthew Guy, Canada
  • Ronnie Schreiber, United States
  • Bozi Tatarevic, United States
  • Chris Tonn, United States
  • Corey Lewis, United States
  • Mark Baruth, United States