Report: Ford Building New Auto Plant in Mexico

Seriously Ruggles, we're not f*cking stupid. Edmunds: "Now the twist: With the introduction of holdbacks some years ago, most manufacturers inflated the invoice prices for every vehicle by a predetermined amount (2-3 percent of MSRP is typical). The dealer pays that inflated amount when it buys the car from the manufacturer. But later, at predetermined times (usually quarterly), the manufacturer reimburses the dealer for the excess amount. This is the "holdback," so named because funds are "held back" by the manufacturer and released only after the vehicle is invoiced to the dealership." http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/dealer-holdback/ You think because most of us can't see inside your top hat we don't know whats happening? Its a business, dealers need to make money or they fold. We get it. Your decades of experience and valuable insight aside, if you don't think "wow that's kinda dick" when people get buried in junk product its your own affair. But it doesn't help the case of us thinking wow "some dealers are f*ckwads".

@28-Cars-Later RE: "Seriously Ruggles, we’re not f*cking stupid." Depends on how you define stupid. If you don't understand the wholesale/retail cost structure at your grocery store, you aren't stupid. When you don't understand the same thing at your car dealer, same thing. What IS stupid is thinking you understand when you don't. RE: "Edmunds: “Now the twist: With the introduction of holdbacks some years ago, most manufacturers inflated the invoice prices for every vehicle by a predetermined amount (2-3 percent of MSRP is typical). The dealer pays that inflated amount when it buys the car from the manufacturer. But later, at predetermined times (usually quarterly), the manufacturer reimburses the dealer for the excess amount. This is the “holdback,” so named because funds are “held back” by the manufacturer and released only after the vehicle is invoiced to the dealership.” To start .... some years ago? Try "some decades ago." ALSO beginning decades ago, the markup over invoice has been steadily reduced. Its a shell game designed to make sure you only think you know the cost structure. One might ask the question, "Why would you even think its your business?" If you want the real information, you can buy yourself a dealership and have all the info. SHould be an easy business, right.

@28-Cars-Later The comment re: holdback is correct. And it's silly for anyone to imply that holdback doesn't exist because it doesn't appear on an invoice -- by definition, the monies are "held back" until after the initial sale of the vehicle by the OEM to the dealer, so it doesn't appear on the invoice by definition. I have my doubts that the comment re: an increasing spread between invoice and MSRP is correct. If anything, I would expect that the opposite is true, particularly with some of the domestics.

@Pch101 RE: "The comment re: holdback is correct. And it’s silly for anyone to imply that holdback doesn’t exist because it doesn’t appear on an invoice — by definition, the monies are “held back” until after the initial sale of the vehicle by the OEM to the dealer, so it doesn’t appear on the invoice by definition." First, who claimed holdback doesn't exist? Edmunds implied it is something that came along recently. I pointed out it has been around for DECADES. In fact, at least SIX decades. Second: Hold Back ABSOLUTELY appears on the invoice.

It seems to be more a function of Internet connectivity speed than available RAM, although I will admit that I know just enough about computers to be dangerous. I will always recommend Adblock.

there are some Flash ads which are really problematic on this site. any of them with animation (especially that "rocket mortgate" one) causes my laptop's fan to go full blast.

@JimZ Hurr derp... I'm using Firefox w/adblock on a cheap Vostro laptop with XP and everything's speedy :-D What cliff?