By on November 3, 2015

2003-Buick-Regal-Sedan-Image-01-1024

Duncan writes:

Sajeev,

OK, I’ll bite on your request for more queries. Here’s a couple:

  1. I recently purchased a 2015 Genesis Coupe. I’ve swapped out the stock air intake for the R2C if, for no other reason, than to get rid of the sound tube pumping noise into the car. (At least there wasn’t an accompanying audio soundtrack. Looking at you, BMW.) The car rips at the top end (yeah, I know, for a V6… I know my place on the food chain), but I was wondering what you would recommend to boost low-end torque. I’m not looking for a supercharger-grade improvement; just a bit more off the line.
  2. My parents have offered to give me their 2002 Buick Regal GS Joseph Abboud Edition (low miles, driven to church on Sunday). It’s tempting to take it on as a project car. Assuming I acquire their sleeper and have $3,000 to spend on performance improvements, what should I do first… and second? Do you even try to address the handling, or do you just shrug it off and go for moar powah?

Keep up the good work!

Sajeev answers:

Quick and easy for the Genesis: After you read this fantastic write up on gencoupe.com, find an ECU tuner that can promise you an improvement in low-end torque. The factory tune often limits it for safety and emissions reasons, hence the need for a quality aftermarket tune.

Sometimes, though less often in the last 10+ years, the factory exhaust manifolds are a significant low-end torque restriction. Since damn near all modern engines have brilliantly designed cast manifolds, I doubt headers shall help, but researching deeper than Google never killed anyone. Or not, because you’ve maxed out the Genesis’ 3.8 without resorting to forced induction, NOS kits, or more displacement.

Hence the need for:

That’s right, son! Can you smell what the Abboud GS LS4-FTW Regal is cooking? I can!

Now I don’t wanna hear you naysayers suggest an overboosted, supercharged 3.8 V-6 instead. Your valid logic about it being (probably) cheaper and (definitely) easier to install on a GM W-body shall fall on deaf ears. Nor shall you mention the blown V-6 is powerful enough to grenade the (stock) transaxle on the drag strip’s first hard launch, hence no need to trouble yourself for two more cylinders.

Your facts are wholly irrelevant when I recline in the occasionally chocolate brown slipcovers of an Abboud Regal whilst indulging in the sound of a lumpy-cammed LS4.

2004regalabboud

As a founding member of the Brown Car Appreciation Society, the group that (probably) inspired the brown manual diesel wagon phenomenon, focus your entire life on that Abboud Regal. That whip — from the bad-old days of GM Beancounting when it was okay to cost cut even the Abboud’s uprated Brown trim — deserves a cammed LS4-FTW. It’ll be the best thing about the previous decade of motoring.

So drop everything and neglect everything else until you have The World’s First LS4-FTW Regal GS Abboud. You’ll certainly be my hero. 

Send your queries to [email protected]com. Spare no details and ask for a speedy resolution if you’re in a hurry…but be realistic, and use your make/model specific forums instead of TTAC for more timely advice.

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111 Comments on “Piston Slap: LS4-FTW, or Much Ado “Abboud” Nothing?...”


  • avatar
    RideHeight

    I wanna see that goofy GXP get fulcrum-ed on a steep curb-cut ramp like that smuggler’s Jeep on the border fence!

  • avatar
    heavy handle

    Duncan,

    Maybe a Hyundai Cold Play and a Buick Regal aren’t the right cars for you if you want more performance. I understand the desire to hot-rod your ride, but there’s only so much you can do with these otherwise fine automobiles. Enjoy them for what they are.

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      Nonsense. The 3800 is pretty durable. Stick a tiny supercharger pulley on it and and boost the crap out of it. I bet you can get 150 more ponies with the right set up. Not saying it’ll last very long but it’ll sure be fun while it does. A chocolate and pillowy modern day GNX!

      • 0 avatar
        heavy handle

        A friend had a (new) supercharged Grand Prix GTP back in the day. It was a fun car, it would lose traction at any time. You always had to feather the throttle, or else you’d be left standing still, with a lot less rubber on your front tires. He sold it after a year, it was very stressful to drive in the winter or in the rain.

        All-in-all, it wasn’t a fast car. It just didn’t have any traction.

  • avatar

    Believe it or not, we had a Joseph Abboud as one of our driver’s ed cars. I always liked to color scheme. Chocolatey Buick Goodness.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      That’s very fancy, you were lucky. EG. Dealer had a prior MY one he couldn’t shift?

      I’m just jelly because I was in an 02 Cavalier basic + AC model.

      • 0 avatar
        dolorean

        Better that Cav than the ’83 Mustang 4 banger 3 spd auto Beige on brown notchback that Sears Driving School had for learnin’ (yeah, who knew?!) that I attended.

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      Drivers Ed—they really make kids take it?

      I got to learn on Dad’s 93 Town Car and Moms Intrepid 3.5L. Dad taught how to handle RWD cars in the snow (IE donuts in the parking lot and drifting) Mom taught how to handle at high speed. I miss both those cars; sadly the Town Car ended up having a lot of problems and sold pretty cheap while the Intrepid was traded in on a truck.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        In Indiana at least, I’m pretty sure you had to have a passing certificate from a licensed education program before you could get your temp permit at age 16.

        Cause I wouldn’t have been paying for that sh!t with my $5.25 an hour wage if it wasn’t required.

      • 0 avatar
        Scoutdude

        In my state to get a driver’s license at 16 you need to have passed an approved driver’s ed class. Nowadays that usually means going to a for profit company. My district is unusual in that the school still offers driver’s ed but not as a regular class, it is either a summer class or an after school class and their is a charge. That charge however was about 1/2 that of the private companies when I looked into it for my kids.

        The for profit companies are real hit and miss the daughter of a friend told how on at least one occasion her teacher took a nap after telling her where to drive to and that was very early on in the course.

  • avatar
    FormerFF

    Honestly, it’s pretty tough to improve on what the factory sends out the door these days engine wise, unless you want to go the forced induction route. You can bias the car’s compromises more towards your individual taste, but at the end of the day you’ve mostly made it different, not better.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Just tint the windows on the Regal and keep it polished within an inch of its life. The only drive it for formal/family functions. (Weddings, funerals, family holidays.)

    BTW is that not the most phallic shifter ever installed in a Buick?

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    My neighbor has the regal GS. Sadly not the Abboud edition.

    He is an older gent, kids are out of the house and for a guy who wears a tie everyday an incredible wrench. Nothing scares him off.

    He has spent many a weakend replacing multiple water pumps and various other failures.

    He digs it, enjoys the challenge of keeping a now 16 year old DD running Monday through Friday.

    With all that said, I would drop a tune on the Hyundai and pass on the LS swap. Save that work for when you can have a driveshaft headed to the rear wheels.

  • avatar
    Shortest Circuit

    Failure to mention a cheater NOS system? booooo….
    http://www.ag.auburn.edu/users/parmega/articles/neon/

  • avatar
    Waftable Torque

    I test drove a Regal GS when they first came out. Wonderful torque, but it had a suspension system that was neither plush and comfortable nor sporty and quick. It was in a terrible middle ground that pleased no one.

    So I’d probably swap out whatever tires are on them and put a performance all season on them. I slapped a set of v-rated Michelin Premier A/S tires on my car, and was impressed how much that category has improved over the last 10 years. It’s like there are fewer and fewer compromises every year.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    A simple ring/pinion swap in the Genesis would do the trick. Plus a programmer to correct the speedo. Turns out the 3.8 comes with limp final-drive gears. 3.50s

    Except the 2.0 turbo comes with the 3.90s you need. The 6-speed manual in the 2.0T also has more aggressive, first 3 gears, than the 3.8’s 6-speed. Last 3, 4-6 remain the same. The speedo gears in the 2.0T’s 6-speed would also correct the speedo when used with the 3.90s.

    Time to hit the junk yards.

    • 0 avatar
      RideHeight

      “A simple ring/pinion swap in the Genesis would do the trick.”

      Who actually *does* this kind of sh1t to their go-to-work, get-the-kids, get-the-groceries, get-it-in-the-garage-then-collapse-on-the-sofa DD just for a tweak more oomph that you barely ever get to use?

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        Dude it only costs 6,700CR in GranTurismo, it can’t be that hard.

        • 0 avatar
          RideHeight

          “Dude it only costs 6,700CR in GranTurismo, it can’t be that hard.”

          Heh..yah, I forgets I so old. I was thinkin’ greasy grit ground into bleeding knuckles kind of wrenchy stuff for which you only have a floor jack and jack stands on your home garage’s cold ass floor.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        Swapping out the ring/pinion on the performance DDs has been done since forever. A simple, cheap trick that makes a tremendous difference, throughout the rev band and gear selection.

        Not just that, but I had an overdrive that was unusable until 65+ mph. So most of my city and city freeway driving was below that, with 4th gear winding out. Swapping out the factory 3.08 gears for 3.73s fixed that with improved fuel economy, besides the added, all around performance.

      • 0 avatar
        bumpy ii

        Swapping out the pumpkin as a unit isn’t that hard. Much easier and faster than replacing the actual ring and pinion gears.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    My son thou must understand, the holy torque produced by the Second Series of our great lord 3800 is already at a limit to what punishment thy servant, the sinful 4T65-E, can withstand. The transfiguration of our lord in blowing air from his divine lungs into his holy block results in 30 more pounds of holy torque being given to thy blessed acceleration, and can break the back of the unrepentant 4T65-E over time. Ye must understand the same transaxle of hardened hearts serves LS4 and it cannot withstand the raw power of eight holy cylinders without the devil taking shape in thy torque converter. Thou must seeketh out 4T80-E as thy transaxle if ye wishes to add more holy torque to our lord and savior 3800 else his holy fire will eviscerate the sinful 4T65-E.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      What about the 4T60E in this C-body I’ma look at today?

      https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/5293261907.html

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        My son, the lord has blessed you indeed if thou acquires such a beautiful Cadillac… may the true soul of Cadillac be at rest.

        But frack me that’s almost as pretty and tempting as a drunk girl on her 21st birthday. I know Cadillac in the period and this one looks clean. You’re missing a digital dash which is good as its a PITA despite Pac Man being awesome and all (I think I have one that will fit a Deville at home if you want to complete the look). Make sure the A/C works, check all wheel wells, door sills, and lower doors for rust, check the plastic on the front quarter panels for cracks (yes they do that). if you can get it to a shop put it on a rack and check for rot underneath. These have metal fuel and I believe brake lines so KROWN is in your future. Check trans fluid and coolant, coolant is weird in these because the aluminum block required some kind of pill dropped into the period coolant. Check to see how the tranny shifts and look for hesitation, *especially into reverse and first gear*. 4T60-E is the previous iteration of 4T65-E, it can withstand 4.9, I had an 89 4.5 Deville which put 180K on a tranny. No idea why 4T60 was better but it seemed better than 4T65-E, we seldom had tranny problems on these and the period Buicks.

        Oh and unless you have receipts otherwise, I would put a water pump and a serp belt in while I changed the coolant. Prob also going to need spark plugs/wires at 92K as those being 20yo.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          Spotted it last night when I did a random search on a whim.

          I noticed particularly the clean nature of the seats, which tells me this one has been garaged and treated very gently over all those years.

          The book is there, as are the keys I see. It’ll be mostly dark when I go look (6:00 is when this guy gets home from work) so I’ll try and find a bright lot nearby or something. Didn’t want to wait til Saturday, because I bet it’ll be gone by then.

          Was very glad to see it didn’t have the digi dash, seems most of them did. And I’ve never owned a horizontal speedo car, ha. Got the trip computer down there still at least.

          We’ll see what kind of records he’s got – I don’t think he’s a dealer from how he texts. I’m thinking relative died perhaps.

          For the cleanliness, I quite like the price, and figure I can do 2500. I’ve always liked the 92-93 ones – they don’t come up as clean very often. From GA, so the under body should be in good shape.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Seriously call me when you look at this, I have an idiot savant like nature for these.

            [email protected]

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Gosh my de Ville floats down the road so smooth. I’ll have it tomorrow!

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Well cool but there’s a whole thing we have to do here otherwise its a surprise when you discover a problem.

            Did you at least pay less than 2800?

            Edit: Curse you now I cant stop looking at E-body Eldos and K-body 4.9 Devilles.

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            Nice score, even if personally FWD deVilles do nothing for me.

            Someday I will have the pimped out 75-76 Coupe deVille of my dreams!

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            MY69 thank you, you can keep your smog strangled ’75.

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            I gotta have my 500 though, and there are companies out there that will help you build a monster 500.

            500 engine in a 69-70 DeVille would be basically perfection though.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            472 is pretty good…

            http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/2013/07/01/hmn_feature11.html

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Haha what whole thing do we have to do! I checked it thoroughly for fluids!

            It’s been Zeibarted, the underside from what I could see was clean as a whistle! Checked all doors and seals.

            Single owner until two weeks ago, when this guy got it (I think for free) at an estate sale – from a son who “didn’t know what to do with it, and was letting the house go back to the bank.”

            It’s been sitting a while, since circa 2010. The plates on it expired in 2013. Has a full tank of gas from 2010 also, as they filled it before parking it in a garage.

            Has most/all records, I’ll sort those tomorrow evening. But in 2003 it had 72k miles, and in 2010 it had 80k – rarely driven.

            I didn’t call you, because I ended up being on the phone with my dad instead! Also I felt awkward turtle.

            $2500, started right up and purred. No gear hesitation shifting, though you do feel it when putting it into R and D. Transmission was serviced in 09. Coolant 09 or 10. PS pump 05 I think.

            He wrote on the engine bits with paint marker when he replaced a part also, ha.

            Oh radio is in lockout mode because they disconnected the battery for parking – have to look up what to punch in. EDIT: So no radio security on those. The lights are on it, and you can hear the antenna working when you press the power button, no speaker sound. Fuse perhaps.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            The code for the radio should be in the manual, but I would just get a CD unit (unless it came with one one?)

            Those are good things to check but also the exhaust manifolds like to crack on those, and I would have also listened for exhaust leaks. Mileage should be about 15/25, if it is not start looking into why.

            My thought it was worth at least 2 and 22 would be a nice starting point but don’t pay 28; 25 about right. I like how dude got the car for free and than made a cool 25, why can’t stuff like that happen to me? These things should be falling into my lap given my strength in the force… of old cars nobody wants.

            “No gear hesitation shifting, though you do feel it when putting it into R and D.”

            Yep a thunk is never good, reverse and first gear are the same gear in that period. Drive it and see if you feel it thunk in up or down shift. The transaxle of that period can be rebuilt if need be… if you can find a trans shop which remembers how. Your next trip if you manage one before the snow will be to a junkyard for a backup ECU. Its good to have cheap spares for old electronics.

            Congrats, enjoy my [former] world.

            One last thing, either drop the fuel tank and drain it at a shop or at least talk to a shop about the old gas. Pre-ethanol gasoline turns into varnish in about a year, I think ethanol gas starts to go bad in about six months but I am not sure if it breaks down differently or not. If you run bad gas through the fuel system you might gum up stuff (such as fuel injectors).

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Fuse or loose wire. Maybe someone had an aftermarket radio in it, removed it, and put the factory radio back in a slipshot manner.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Didn’t hear any leaks as far as that goes. Walked around it while running before driving and after, and got down near the tail pipe as well.

            You have such force strength, how do you not have three dark green Sixty Specials by now!?

            I only got it up to 50 in the locale where I was today near the house, but there was no thunk or hesitation at any point, shifts were very smooth. It didn’t really thunk into R and D, that’s not how I would describe it. Just the feeling from putting it into a different gear, I guess.

            I didn’t smell the gas in the tank, though I should have. Wouldn’t it be running crappy if the gas were bad? I suppose it’s good the tank was full, preventing condensation at least.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I would talk to a shop and get their opinion on the old gas. My Audi sat and ran rough when I first got it because of bad gas. Otherwise kudos.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        Oh, that’s pretty. Snap it up.

    • 0 avatar
      amarks

      At the very least, the supercharged Regals came with the 4T65-E HD, which was less failure prone than the original. And to Sajeev’s point, the same transaxle was used on the Regal GS as the LS4 equipped cars, the only difference being a higher final drive.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        The LS4 chews through torque converters on 4T65-HD.

        http://www.gmls4.com/index.php?topic=33.0

        The 4T65-E or HD are only appropriate for 3800 N/A levels of power unless you want to replace the tranny at some point beyond 100K in L67s or the torque converter every 30K or so in the LS4/HD. If someone wants to hit 300hp or more on a dyno out of a 3800 they should upgrade the entire transaxle to the 4T80-E which was designed for Northstar levels of power and is a robust design.

        http://www.gmforum.com/1992-1999-91/3800-swap-4t65-4t80-pt1-300890/

    • 0 avatar
      BigRig

      Thou preacheth the truth….I know from first hand experience. I sold my mother-in-law our very low mileage Accord sedan as it came off lease for a steal and she gave me her 2002 GS Abboud as part of the deal because I just wanted a cheap DD to get to/from work. I grenaded the transmission within six months while simultaneously having the good old 3800 intake manifold give up the ghost and wreak havoc on the motor. Put her on craigslist and sold her for $700 in cold hard cash. It was a short lived experiment.

  • avatar
    davefromcalgary

    So many times have I looked at Regal GS or Grand Prix GTP of the era, due to my love of the 3800. And the GTP aesthetics too.

    But the interiors are just so awful. So awful! I mean, the materials are on par with anything else GM of the era, but the layout is atrocious, no at hand storage, no where to place a water bottle with any certainty it will not fall over. Godawful dash, cluster and console. Yuck.

    Contrast to the Alero, which was great interior design.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      Hehe, the GTP eh?

      Sometimes I think you might be a secret Kentuckian. Do you also fancy some late model Monte Carlo?

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        In Dale Earnhardt or Dale Earnhardt Jr trim. Intimidator FTW!

      • 0 avatar
        davefromcalgary

        Yeesh, no, the Monte Carlo seemed to have been designed by three people who each did a third and then just taped the sketches together and said it was done.

        Not sure what to say about your secret Kentuckian notion.

        Lets not forget about the black only S/C Impala SS of the era (2004 roughly).

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          I have seen one of those Impalas. The lettering on the back in blacked out capitals caught me eye! Not bad, and I liked those chrome wheels.

          I guess if you haven’t been to Kentucky you wouldn’t get what I mean. But those cars were/are very popular, and it’s still Pontiac central down there. And Ford trucks.

          EDIT: Thinking, and what I saw a newer SS/something Impala that looked special. It was this variant:

          http://wordpress.carthrottle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/SS-1.jpg

          But along that black strip at the bottom of the trunk it had I M P A L A spread across the back in black lettering. Anybody know what that was? Looked very factory.

          • 0 avatar
            davefromcalgary

            This is the S/C Impala SS.

            http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2003/11/29/173576.1-lg.jpg

            I do like the V8 Impala SS you linked as well….

            Corey, I think you are calling GTP and Monte Carlos redneck cars, and I dont think you need to live in Kentucky to be a redneck. Redneck Pope Jeff calls being a redneck “The glorious absence of sophistication”, I guarantee you that we are all rednecks at least one day of our lives.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            It’s not necessarily redneck, I dunno how to describe it! Anyway wasn’t insulting you, so hope it didn’t come off like that.

            And even with all my high falutin standards, I like the Bonneville SSEi.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Definitely not factory.

          • 0 avatar
            davefromcalgary

            Not insulted, just in search of clarity of meaning.

            I’m fine with redneck, actually.

    • 0 avatar
      sgeffe

      Remember that all the Regal of this era was, correct me on this B&B, was a Century with the 3.8L motors and different grills.

  • avatar
    Ryoku75

    The more you screw with a car the more problems youre going to have down the road, be it failing emissions, extra cabin noise, lower resale, or reduced engine life.

    Use your dough on some nice tires for the Genesis, keep the Buick as a second hand car, itll just burn tires and roll everywhere if you jack the power up.

    W-Bodys are good cars, but even the “sporty” GT Grand Prix will plow when you raise the power.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Tires and a chip for the Genesis, nuff said.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      “The more you screw with a car the more problems youre going to have down the road”

      I agree with this wholeheartedly. I tend to think 95% of modifications make the car worse. The ones that don’t are either very simple or very, very involved.

      • 0 avatar
        Ryoku75

        It does, on my first Volvo 240 the exhaust and front air intake were straightened out a little with one of the mufflers removed.

        This increases noise, moved the power band up a tad, but reduced low-end, the car was still quite a slug but now was even sluggier around town.

        Automakers design things the way they do for a reason.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          Reversible mods are best, but a car or concept may be designed for much better performance, but castrated at the last second by bean counters, CAFE, legal staff, or they’re just looking to reduce warranty exposure.

          And de-tuning by the OEM may be just a sluggish ring/pinion, retarded engine mapping, timing, etc.

          I’ve noticed with performance (accessory) pulleys, the engine will have less effective cooling, charging and AC, with extended idling periods. They don’t warn you about this stuff, but it’s commonsense.

          But the smaller the engine is, the less that tuning and performance “mods” will have a noticeable or worthwhile improvement. “Fart cans” on Civics can actually reduce power from idle to redline, regardless of vendor’s “up to…” claims.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    On that Buick Regal, here is what you can do to make life better:

    1) Install front and rear strut tower braces – on any GM W-Body this should be the first thing any owner does. It makes a huge difference. Also replace the front braces with something of higher quality. Tons of after market parts to be found out there.

    2) 18″ rims on the corners. IIRC you can go 45 profile which will stiffen the ride up, but not beat you to death.

    3) Get rid of the paper rotors and put something of higher quality on there, and some better pads. GM W-Body rotors are cheap – but they are also disposable and will warp if you think about it wrong.

    4) A CAI will make a difference on the GM 3.8 — the stock box is crazy restrictive. There are after market kits and DIY.

    But the biggest thing you can do this week are those strut tower and fender braces – the difference will be immediate.

    Oh, and thank God whomever owns that Grand Prix GXP is not my neighbor – that’s just obnoxious.

    • 0 avatar
      golden2husky

      Also, as I did on our inherited Century of the same year, is a GMPP front swaybar, an Addcco rear bar, premium endlinks, KYB’s and Eibach springs. Now your car will corner with major aggression. But beware: the Eibachs extract a serious ride penalty. And boy do W body rotors warp!

  • avatar
    S2k Chris

    Abboud? Is that a real thing?? I thought it was the Mens Wearhouse store brand when I bought one of their suits for…something…once for like $300.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Maybe at one time JA was relevant but no more I imagine.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        Joseph Abboud is the creative director at Men’s Warehouse now. They are pumping money into his brand. They bought it for cheap and made him their Chief Creative Officer or something.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      These days, Men’s Warehouse sells a, Made in the USA!, Joseph Abboud suit for under $500. I’d bet you can get one under $400, on sale. For someone that is either just building a suit wardrobe or just wears a suit a few times a year, they could do much worse. The could probably do better, but definitely much, much worse.

      • 0 avatar
        S2k Chris

        It’s a perfectly good suit, but not something I’d think granted any prestige to a car. I guess it’s perfectly applied, because the opposite, the Joseph Abboud Buick Regal-edition suit, would be about the same thing.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Pfft Brooks Brothers at minimum for the noobs or I laugh at them.

        http://www.esquire.com/style/a4452/500-dollar-suit-0508/

        or if they want to step up to semi serious:

        http://www.brooksbrothers.com/Fitzgerald-Fit-Two-Button-1818-Suit/212K,default,pd.html

        Although I demand more of myself…

        • 0 avatar
          S2k Chris

          I wear suits to weddings, funerals, and job interviews. That’s it. I wear a BB dress shirt every day, but no need for an expensive suit. Although I’d buy a $500 BB suit if I needed a new one.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I love the BB oxford. It’s like the swiss army knife of men’s clothing.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I wore a dress shirt every day for twelve years in school, not doing it again ever without a suit coat. I’m wearing a green fleece with a t-shirt and Nautica slacks I bought at Macys last year. I just don’t care about fashion most of the time, but I feel when you get dressed up X times a year you need to go to the nines or otherwise what’s the point.

          • 0 avatar
            S2k Chris

            “I love the BB oxford. It’s like the swiss army knife of men’s clothing.”

            So do I, but I swear they make it hard to determine the fitment lately. I ordered three new ones on Columbus Day, some came with 7 buttons on the front, some 8, and I swear the arms are more snug than the same ones I have in my closet of the same size and line (always Traditional Fit). I have a very long torso so I’m sensitive to the length of the shirt and I’m having trouble keeping these new ones tucked in which was the main advantage to the BB shirts in the past.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I haven’t ordered any since last year. If they’ve messed with the fit, I am not going to be a happy camper.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            “get dressed up X times a year you need to go to the nines or otherwise what’s the point”

            For my special evening work occasions where we meet with other companies I have monthly or every other month, I wear a three-piece. People notice it seems, because at my conference in Phoenix a woman I had not met before came up to me and said “Oh, I expected you to be in a three-piece, I heard about that!”

            Felt nice.

          • 0 avatar
            S2k Chris

            ““Oh, I expected you to be in a three-piece, I heard about that!””

            We had a guy who used to wear a bow tie every day, people talked about that, too. Not in a good way.

            When I need to get dressed up for work I just toss a sport coat on. We assume suit = job interview at another company.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The bow tie guy! There is always one of those.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            The way she said it was complimentary, but I’d never go as far as a doofus bow tie at my age.

            These work things involve dinners at high end restaurants with people like insurance company CEOs, so I feel it’s appropriate. I don’t think I’d enjoy working somewhere that dressing up meant you were looking for other job ops.

          • 0 avatar
            S2k Chris

            “I don’t think I’d enjoy working somewhere that dressing up meant you were looking for other job ops.”

            We’re 95% engineers (I’m their finance support) so here dressing up means matching shoes and belt. The executives just wear coats more than the rest of us in our dress shirt/dress pants uniforms.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            OHH, engineers. That makes much more sense now.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @Corey

            So classy. I was too fat between 2007 and 2013 to wear a vest but my graduation suit (BB) in 1999 had one.

            @s2k, Bbball

            My doctor is a bow tie guy, he’s an interesting character and devoid of all humor.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            I got that comment once from a rep, ha. “Oh that’s nice you can wear a vest, I have been too fat for a long time!”

            I buy everything the smallest size I can, then have it taken in, basically. 36R

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Corey-

            I used to be like you, but I am happy in my Brooks Brothers button down, Jack Donnelly khakis, and Allen Edmonds shoes.

            36R?!?!?!?! I didn’t know such a size existed. Am I just a giant at 44L/46L?

          • 0 avatar
            S2k Chris

            “I used to be like you, but I am happy in my Brooks Brothers button down, Jack Donnelly khakis, and Allen Edmonds shoes.”

            Wearing the exact same thing at the moment, but my brown pants are from RL. My AE shoes might be the best things I’ve ever bought.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            AE shoes are great. I won’t go back to cheaper shoes that I throw away on a yearly basis.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Yes you are a giant! I think 36 is as low as they go at normal stores.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            My daughter will probably be over 6 feet tall and I will have to buy a gun.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            37″ chest, 30″ waist. Nothing fits me.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          I don’t demand that much from most people. The US made Abboud suits are fine for guys that don’t usually wear suits. They are made better than most things as Men’s Warehouse and also made in the US. I was at a wedding a couple weeks ago. If I could get every guy that bought a $200 suit to up it to that Abboud suit, the world would be a better place.

          I don’t wear suits as much anymore, so I donated everything I had that wasn’t a made in the US Mart Marx/Hickey Freeman/Brooks or Zegna (on a 28CL recommendation).

          • 0 avatar

            I was a Training Manager at Men’s Wearhouse about seven years ago. The best suits in the store used to be the Ralph Lauren/Calvin Klein branded suits made by Peerless in Canada. The retailed for $299—they were a super steal. They also had a nice entry level HSM suit branded as “Society” for around $500. In the New York and San Francisco stores, they had nice Jack Victor suits for about $699. Sadly, you can’t find any of that in the stores anymore.

            For inexpensive suits, I recommend the Jack Victor suits on Sierra Trading Post. They’re Canadian-made and often can be found for less than $300 on sale.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Good Anakin, gooood.

            I’m also partial to Armani suits, but not that Mani crap. The thing with Armani is though its very flashy in the top two tiers whereas I feel Zegna is stealth wealth.

            @Bark

            I bought a Lauren in 2008 just after I lost my job for interviews, navy pinstripe. Since I got the current job I went back to snobbery while I respect Lauren but feel for your first real suit its Brooks Brothers even its if their entry level model. Be better dressed than your interviewer, I may not have been in 2008 but I live by the principal now.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I forgot about Jack Victor. He has some really nice conservative two button suits. For $300, that’s a great suit.

            Did Peerless make RL tuxes back then?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Jack Victor @ Mens Wearhouse on clearance for $149 down from $799:

            SELECT CHARCOAL CHECK MODERN FIT SUIT

            http://www.menswearhouse.com/mens-clothes/mens-suits/modern-fit-trim-suits/jack-victor-select-charcoal-check-modern-fit-suit-379E380E97?cm_mmc=TsaGoogle_CSE-_-comparison_shopping-_-google_pla-_-shopping_feed&medium=TSA&zmam=64003343&zmas=1&zmac=1&zmap=TMW379E36297

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Modern Fit, eh? The tux I have to wear for a wedding is “modern fit” or “slim fit” and it is terrible. It’s like JJ Watt wearing a women’s small sized t-shirt. Awful.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Maybe on giants such as yourself but for us newly slim folks… (I’m kidding).

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Yeah. I know. I’m 6’5″ and 235 lbs. I feel like Chris Farley’s “fat guy in a little coat” when I try on a 46L slim fit suit. The pants are usually okay, but the shoulders and arms are not.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I’m surprised there is a “slim fit” on a 46 or larger.

          • 0 avatar
            S2k Chris

            “I’m surprised there is a “slim fit” on a 46 or larger.”

            My sister in law once bought me a slim fit XXL polo shirt. WTF?

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Usually I wear a 44L, but I can’t get a 44L slim fit jacket on. Some brands I buy a 46L and take them in. Sometimes companies market “athletic fit”, which usually works better for me. Usually the drop from jacket size to pant size on a suit is 6″. Athletic fit suits have at least an 8″ drop in pant size from jacket size. Even then, I still need to take them in.

            I actually have some XXL slim fit polo shirts for some reason. I think they are just XLs with a different tag that retailed for more money. I bought them on clearance at Macy’s for $15 a piece. Apparently everyone else was wondering why there was an XXL slim fit shirt.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Hmmmmmm and I thought I had problems being between a 40 and a 41.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Sometimes, when I feel bad about being 6’5″ and stuck in a Delta torture chamber somewhere over the state of Ohio, I remember that one of my best friends is 7 feet tall, and tell myself to stop being a pu$$y.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I had a friend who was 6’8 years back. I must admit I wish to be taller but don’t envy the very tall or large.

            “Delta torture chamber”

            Lol. Their penchant for running old planes until they are near the point to oblivion makes me wonder if one of my clones isn’t managing the company behind the scenes.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Delta runs an extremely good operation. Probably the best airline operation in the world. They had 83,000 mainline flights in September. Only 50 were cancelled. On time performance was over 90%. They may have old birds, but they maintain them extremely well and have excellent hubs. They also are very good at filling 100% of their aircraft without over booking.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          I have three dark BB suits and one Calvin Klein tan summer suit bought from Men’s Wearhouse for 50% off (as part of a promotion when I bought a tux). The BBs were all between $800 and $1200 and are indestructible, not remotely worn after years of use. I wear one of them maybe once every three weeks. But they’re starting to get old in terms of cut, so I’ll probably replace them soon even though they basically look brand new.

          There would be no return on investment for me to buy more expensive suits. Few people in the PNW notice, and I don’t wear them that often anyway. There are a few people who wear suits every day to my office — they like to think they are Very Serious but everyone snickers at them and calls them tools behind their backs.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      I think it was a poor choice to choose that designer/name for a Buick. It sounds foreign, and fairly Middle Eastern (correct or not, no idea) at a time after 9/11.

      Old peeps ain’t having it.

  • avatar
    namesakeone

    Somehow, in the case of the Genesis, I think I would be inclined to leave the car alone, thus to preserve the best part of ANY (new) Hyundai…the 100,000 mile warranty. Any modifications would almost certainly void it.


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