Hyundai Says Fuel Cells Will Be Cheaper Than Batteries, Will Debut Hydrogen Fuel Cell CUV Next Year

Sounds like we don't have any takers here... no hydrogen makes no sense, nor does any other "green energy" the the government latches onto so quickly. But then why does anyone here buy into the idea that electric cars make any sense except for local driving? Infrastructure for electric cars? Not once you leave the driveway except with a very few exceptions. Is it green? Not unless you consider burning coal at less than 10% efficiency green. Even when and if we get around to natural gas generated electricity, transmission losses are 90% at the end user. Is this green? When we get around to LNG driven cars, we'll have something to work with, but we'll still need new infrastructure to support it except for local driving. Also, we'll have to turn ourt heads when we hear about the fracking issues, but otherwise, it has a chance.

Sorry, lots of nonsense in this thread. Corn-based fuel ethanol as currently produced in the US has a (slight) positive energy balance over the lifecycle, despite its lower energy content compared to gasoline, and you are producing it using abundant fossil fuels (coal, NG) to replace a less abundant one. It is not "stupid", and it is getting less stupid all the time as efficiencies improve. Does it produce other undesirable externalities such as increased world grain prices? Probably. Can it replace a significant fraction of our liquid petroleum use? Certainly not. So, why not criticize it on those grounds rather than making stuff up? And seriously....burning coal to generate electricity at less than 10% efficiency? Where the heck does that happen in North America? Check your sources. I am sure you will find that the true value is in the 30 to 40% range, and that with more advanced technologies (IGCC), 50% is approachable. And "transmission losses of 90% at the end user"?? Whaaaat? Transmission losses are typically less than 10%. There are other *small* losses associated with AC/DC conversion and battery efficiency. Electricity delivery is pretty efficient, and once it is delivered it is used *much* more efficiently (by an electric motor instead of an ICE - think 85% vs 20%).

Thanks Mr. Duck: Now let's hear you lay some brilliance on us... No rotten eggs please. Here is my take: Corn based fuel makes no sense on many levels. So please give us a reference as to your figures. I have never seen any that were positive, even without digging into them, as you suggest. Generally, when I read their figures, they are full of obvious flaws. First, how much soil loss is figured due to our incredibly harmful corn farming practices? How about the long term cost of raising corn using these chemicals literally kill all beneficial soil bacteria and... generally, just raising genetically modified corn? Of course, none of this is sustainable. As the soil gets worse, can we continue to feed people at all? Do you care? You know if we all die, ducks will follow. Line losses occur according to transmission distance as I am sure you are aware by your comments. Every sub-station induces additional losses. I did what I thought were real world calculations for our more sparsely populated area. Agreed, I did them some twenty years ago, but we have not gotten much better at it from what I can see. A transformer is still a major power looser just are the lines. You are welcome to believe what you will Mr. Duck and I agree with your numbers for a city in winter. Now moving along... IMHO, our grid technology is basically about as outdated as the ICE that you demeanor and not that far removed from what Tesla originally conceived. Interestingly, our company is currently looking into a technology that would decrease transmission losses 35% using load balancing techniques, but I am skeptical. With these, it is usually about batteries and, as we know, batteries are still poor. Agreed that the ICE, as currently used, is approximately 20% efficient... you could conclude that they stink! However, we have proven ways to run this up by 35% or more. Click on my name to see how. On the other hand, I am thinking that your 85% electrical conversion rate is very low. I would put it closer to 100%. The only losses are line and armature losses through heat. You say the these electric cars are 30% and I say that they are no better, even in a city, than an antiquated ICE. Call my conclusion nonsense. I call it reasonable. But who cares about any of this if you can't recharge your car... meaning to me that you don't live in a city where they MAY have charging stations? In the meantime, I see far better systems coming on line and ours is one of them.

I believe this is the car in which Hyundai's European market was shown an ad of a man trying to commit suicide via carbon monoxide, but unable to do so because of the fact that the car's exhaust emits only water vapor.