By on October 29, 2008

Now that self-styled AutoExtremist has acknowledged that his hometown heroes have screwed the proverbial pooch, Peter DeLorenzo wants the left and right coast elites to know they can’t afford to let Motown take a dirt nap. Rant #469 (my favorite title so far) makes it clear that the American automobile industry IS Detroit, and Detroit IS America’s industrial pillar. “Free-market theorizing aside [ED: sure , why not?], we have long since passed the point of no return in this matter. If this country allows one of its key manufacturing pillars to slip into insolvency, it would set-off a dark chain of events that would reach into every sector of the economy and would not only devastate the states where Detroit has its manufacturing and parts facilities, but it would affect every state of the union too.” That means you, bub. To avoid this “looming economic disaster,” Sweet Pete thinks the GM – Chrysler merger’s kinda neat. “Even though I am absolutely convinced that the idea of GM acquiring Chrysler is absolutely fraught with opportunities for abject failure on a grand scale, the White House will make the decision that a managed dissolution of Chrysler over time under GM’s stewardship would be preferable than an immediate corporate blow-up.” Especially before a presidential election, eh? Having finished this adventure into realpolitik, DeLorenzo’s got a plan for America, Inc. Counter-attack!

“Don’t agree with a ‘bailout’ or ‘loan’ for Detroit? Then what if every foreign auto manufacturer – whether they have plants here or not – had to pay anywhere from $250 to $1500 per vehicle sold (on a sliding scale) to do business here? (Because no matter how much they say that they’ve created jobs in the states they operate in and that they shouldn’t be penalized for doing so, at the end of the day their profits return to their home countries, not here. And to pretend otherwise is to have your head in the sand.) And then what if that money went directly into a fund to help support American workers’ pensions or an education fund for their families?

“The bottom line in this discussion is that we have a multitude of problems in this country that will take time, sacrifice, hard work and collective effort to solve. And we’re only going to be able to do that if we’re unified as a nation, and we compete in the global marketplace as ‘America, Inc.'”

I’m a level playing field kinda guy. But is it me or is there something really scary about the tone of Peter’s rant?

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50 Comments on “AutoExtremist: Tax The Bastards...”


  • avatar
    gcmustanglx

    Welcome to Socialism. Always entertaining.

  • avatar
    br549

    What Pete is advocating is not Socialism per se as much as a rather extreme economic nationalism. And one could argue that that’s been the Japanese M.O. for some time. Sure, the U.S. has been a poor example of ideological purity as regards free trade (read: farm subsidies) but within manufacturing the auto industry has pretty much had to fend for itself. And let’s face it; none of us really knows what effect a wholesale abandonment of the industrial base would have on us economically. I really could be that bad.

  • avatar
    br549

    Uhm, I meant to say IT really could be that bad. Actually, I’m a rather nice fellow.

  • avatar
    WhatTheHel

    By gawd we’ve got to rally together to save our home grown domestic television industry. The government should step in and provide much needed assistance to our beloved American TV brands like Curtis Mathes, Emerson, and Admiral.

    If we let this industry fall to the Japanese then many more will follow and our whole American way of life will collapse faster than a house of cards.

    Well, what are you waiting for? Get off your ass and write to your congressman right now!!!

  • avatar
    jet_silver

    Remind me again why it’s OK for the 2.x to outsource production, but when I do it – cutting out the middleman – there’s something wrong? Just who is hollowing out the US industrial base?

  • avatar
    menno

    Wow, I read the rant and he’s essentially calling for Smoot-Hawley II.

    Go look up the facts about how intensified and extended the Great Depression was because of EXACTLY these sentiments.

    ‘coz know what? All the other countries fell for the same foolishness, retaliated and collapsed their economies, too.

    Plus the biz he writes about the transplant car companies sending “all the profits back overseas” is just sooooo much bull pucky, I can’t even begin to tell you.

    So, gee, let’s see. According to his (and other similar) thinking – let’s SUBSIDIZE the failures and PENALIZE the successful. And we’ll do it basing our decisions on their NATIONALITY.

    Sounds like National Socialism to me. AKA NAZIISM.

    It also sounds exactly along the lines of what our gummint (let’s be honest – Democrat Congress and Republican Administration) just did for the fat-cat bankers.

    I want my four years back. I was volunteer military 1976-1980. I didn’t become a literal slave to the state for four years to defend (what was) my country for this crap.

    I want my four years back.

  • avatar
    tom

    Ok, so the evil foreigners take the money they make back home…well, where does the money go that the Detroit boys make go? Oh right, they don’t make any money…actually, they want YOU to bail them out.

    Oh, and wouldn’t it be great if the cars GM, Ford and Chrysler sell oversees would be taxed in return? That would be the end of the last little areas where they don’t actually lose money.

  • avatar
    Samir

    It is true that trade practices don’t create a level playing field. On the other hand, trade practices alone weren’t the reason the imports gained a foothold in America. The domestics have had so many other advantages over the years – heritage, familiarity, dealer coverage, a loyal customer base that was trained to return to the source, etc. All of it pissed away to save a few bucks on head gaskets.

  • avatar
    Airhen

    An additional tax per vehicle on foreign manufactures is nothing but “share the wealth” socialism. I am not at all for rewarding companies and their unions for bad business. Bad companies should be allowed to fail so that good ones are allowed to fairly grow and prosper which benefits us all in the long run, no matter if they are foreign owned or not. It’s good that companies want to build cars here and employ our citizens.

    I’ll add that I’m a Jeep guy that just bought a Civic that was built in Canada. It’s amazing that the Big 2.8 still can’t make anything that competes in price or quality against a Civic.

  • avatar
    eh_political

    I have mentioned this in previous comments myself. Propping up the domestics is not enough, it is important to impose additional taxes on imports, and yes transplants.

    It has been argued many times by the TTAC contrarians that other countries compete freely in Canada and the US, while erecting all manner of barriers to trade in their home countries.

    A Canadian, by definition is pro free trade, trade is our lifeblood, but it is sheer folly to leave a country open to imbalances and unfair trade practices. Now that the Detroit three are bled white, markets may be wiiide open, but it’s fair to ask how automotive industries arose in Japan, Korea and now China. Why PROTECTION, of course. Sometimes actively enabled by the Marshall Plan, and nurtured by American policies.

    The primary issue is the survival and reformation of a domestic industry. Properly managed, there is no reason these companies cannot produce stellar vehicles. Unless of course, they no longer exist.

  • avatar
    toxicroach

    He’s in full freakout now.

    It’s hard when your delusions have been popped; people tend to overreact. I’m not even sure if congress COULD say that specific companies have to pay a special tax, while these companies get a pass for the exact same product. That reeks of unconstitutional.

    And as for the profits: buy some stock in Toyota. GM profits (when they had em) went to the stockholders, who could live anywhere in the world. The profits argument is just silly.

  • avatar
    John R

    Let see. My Intrepid committed transmission seppuku at 60k miles, a $2500 repair, and how much do Wagoner and the rest of the jokers make? Do they even drive their own products?! Yeah…

    I’m not for the demise of the US auto industry, but ultimately its my money. I shouldn’t have to make enough to afford bi-monthly repairs in addition to basic maintenance, a car note and insurance.

    Are American cars relatively better now compared to yesteryear? Sure. However, would you buy another house from a builder that sold you one where roof caved in during the first winter? One might be a little shy.

  • avatar
    Rday

    This guy is really full of baloney. He thinks he knows everything. Must come from his GM days. Just another detroit crackpot fanboy. It is guys like him that have gotten GM to where they are today. And he just doesn’t get it.

  • avatar
    taxman100

    I don’t think it is a coincidence that our manufacturing base has been gutted, while at the same time we have gone from the world’s largest creditor nation in 1980, to by many, many multiples, the world’s largest creditor nation.

    We have managed to maintain our standard of living by borrowing money to buy imported goods. Eventually you reach a point where that is no longer possible.

    The banking system and individuals have reached that point. Now the U.S. Treasury is fast approaching that point as well.

    Our massive trade deficits show the “unrestained free markets” has been a disaster for this country, only it will be your children and grandchildren who will pay for your good times with a vastly lower standard of living.

  • avatar
    Casual Observer

    Why should we pony up our tax dollars to prop up businesses who hamstring themselves from competing? If Detroit wants my money, then they should make a car that I want to buy.

    Here’s an example of why Detroit cannot compete, and why they need to change their ways or go away:

    “As recently as 2005, U.S. automakers (led by GM) were paying out a billion dollars a year to 12,000 idled, unneeded workers in a ‘jobs bank’. Senior economist David Littmann of Michigan’s Mackinac Center for Public Policy points out that per-vehicle labor costs for U.S. automakers were as high as $2,500 more than those of foreign competitors, even though those very foreigners were often paying comparable or higher wages and benefits in their U.S. plants.”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/16/the-downshift-at-gm/

  • avatar

    At least Mr. Delorenzo is spreading his contempt around now. His normal target is the “intelligencia” (read: smart, educated people), and now he’s targeting most lower income folks too:

    a Starbucks Nation of “whatever” consumers who don’t really care where whatever it is we’re coveting comes from as long as its here, now and c-h-e-a-p

    (Of course, for the real average American, they buy cheap stuff because they can’t afford anything else, including Starbucks.)

    I’m finding it harder to read his rants these days. He continually blames these issues on we stupid (or smart) Americans — it’s our fault that we’re not buying American, not the fault of the companies who couldn’t build something (other than trucks) that we wanted. Mr. Delorenzo comes across as an arrogant, shouty little man, and not as the reasoned expert I want.

  • avatar
    eh_political

    @ menno:

    Smoot-Hawley was enacted when the US had massive manufacturing surpluses with the rest of the world. America literally shot itself in the foot with this one. At present, the mere hint of US protectionism may bring about more responsible behaviour on the part of Pacific Rim trading partners. There is the parable of the Golden Goose…

    Bottom line, Asian economies have saved their trade surpluses for years, building up monetary cushions rather than engaging in reciprocal buying. In the long run, it may prove to be a huge mistake, because as we are already witnessing, the US appears poised to print it’s way out of trouble. If this doesn’t end very quickly, those huge dollar surpluses Japan and China et al have amassed won’t buy them a latte at Starbucks.

  • avatar
    Vega

    The profits argument is so stupid, it’s painful…

    1. Foreign carmakers over the last decade have strongly increased their production capacity in the US, creating thousands of jobs. When was the last time the Big 2.8 had a net INCREASE in production capacity or number of employees on US soil?

    2. Just checking on Reuters: Currently 5 of the biggest 10 institutional investors in Toyota stock are US investment funds. Again, the “profits go to Japan” argument is just comically stupid

  • avatar
    SherbornSean

    The only problem with Pete’s idea is that he limits it to 5% of the economy — why not be bold and extend it to the rest of the economy?

    Like restaurants. Every time you go to a restaurant you like, you are taking away revenues from lousy restaurants, and soon, those lousy restaurants may have to lay off Suzy the waitress. So from now on, we’ll charge you $5 to go to your favorite place, and give it to Suzy.

    Doctors. For whatever reason, you seem to prefer competent doctors with fancy diplomas and years of experience. But what about the guy who just graduated at the bottom of his class at Worcester Community School of Medicine, Dentistry and Such? So what if he is a quack — you’re stealing food off his table!

    What about lazy sales reps? blind bus drivers? ugly whores? Let’s tax every single competent company and reward every incompetent company until we’ve completely transformed the economy.

    There’s a reason DeLorenzo doesn’t have a comments section on his rants and there’s a reason he won’t write for TTAC. He can’t handle having his rants critically examined.

  • avatar
    Vega

    @eh_political:

    “Smoot-Hawley was enacted when the US had massive manufacturing surpluses with the rest of the world.”

    Exactly. That’s the only way for an emerging economy to grow and catch up with developed countries. Eventually, people in emerging economies will become rich enough for cost advantages to disappear. That and excessive consumerism will make these surplusses disappear.

    Denying others the same way to prosperity you yourself used is selfish.

  • avatar
    toxicroach

    Remind me when the domestics made a serious effort to make cars in Japan? They opened a Saturn dealership for about 6 months and gave up. You can’t just ship some F-150’s over there; they have their own regs and prefer way smaller vehicles.

    And as for China, given they aren’t exactly free market icons, but that’s one of the few areas where GM is showing a profit. GM’s overseas ops are the only ones that make a profit these days, so do please stuff that unfair trade practices stuff where it belongs. Hell, Ford also has profitable, even dominant, foreign operations.

    It ain’t unfair trade practices; it’s not labor costs, its not even management stupidity.

    The reason the big 3 fell is that it was always easier to slap a bandaid on the problem and move on. Eventually GM was more bandaid than company, and one stiff blow opened up all the patched up and badly healed wounds and now they are bleeding out.

  • avatar
    TaurusGT500

    “ …. let’s SUBSIDIZE the failures and PENALIZE the successful.”

    Hmmm…. So, this is like affirmative action for CEOs.

  • avatar
    Dr Lemming

    Pete’s proposal is “out of the box” as usual. Why do folks take him all that seriously? One question, though: Is his proposal grounded in a consulting agreement with any of the American automakers?

  • avatar
    geeber

    His proposal that would require the transplants to pay a “tax” on each vehicle sold here is really not new. Jerry Flint proposed a variation of it about 2-3 years ago. Mr. Flint’s tax would have been accessed on each vehicle sold, and paid directly by the customer.

    And Mr. DeLorenzo does have a section on his page (titled “Reader Mail”) that publishes e-mails from readers. Now he could, of course, delete the unfavorable e-mails.

  • avatar
    no_slushbox

    As we can all see on the side of the screen we have an open financial system (through American Depository Receipts in the US) where profit flows to whoever is smart enough to put their capital in the right company.

    Don’t like the profits going to Japan? Buy some Toyota or Honda stock on the NYSE.

    DeLorenzo has had some wool pulled over his head if he can’t see that the GM-Chrysler merger is just a way to save the asses of some very well connected people at Cerberus and the companies that invested in Cerberus.

    I used to like some of Pete’s rants, but only a complete idiot would talk about “an immediate corporate blow-up”. Did Delphi have “an immediate corporate blow-up”? Did the numerous airlines that have gone through Chapter 11 have “an immediate corporate blow-up”? If so their passengers didn’t notice.

    Chrysler could have a very clean Chapter 11 reorganization that kept the company going and paid off most of the creditors, while solving dealer and legacy cost problems. Unfortunately that would destroy most of the Cerberus equity, and they’re too connected to let that happen (especially since they can put the screws to GM by shutting down GMAC financing).

  • avatar
    no_slushbox

    Actually, if I was a Japanese car dealer and the Xenophobic hatred of Japanese cars came back in the US (it could in certain regions) I would start offering a couple shares of stock in the brand I sell with each purchase:

    “You think this company is Japanese? Are you Japanese? You just became an owner.”

  • avatar
    John Horner

    Peter seems firmly in the camp that believe Detroit problems are caused by un-patriotic customers and un-fair competition, with nary a word of blame assigned to Detroit management of the unions. Crazy Uncle Pete has been in love with General Motors since he was a toddler and isn’t about to let the facts cloud his judgment.

    I couldn’t bring myself to read every word of his length rant, but nothing in there seemed to call for heads to roll at HQ.

    I’m sick to death of the whole where-the-profit-go argument because it is bunk. Detroit’s only profits in the past several years have been from it’s overseas operations which send profits back to the mother ship. If you think things are bad now, just wait until Europe slaps a tax on all things Ford and General Motors and China snatches away US holdings there by the stroke of a pen. Playing chess requires not only considering your moves, but also the likely counter moves of the opponent. Also, GM has been dis-investing in the US while spending piles of cash in Asia. Honda, Toyota, Nissan and other transplants continue to invest in America. Which are the better citizens? Which companies treat their customers with respect?

    Peter has gone completely off the deep end. Spending years as an unrepentant Lutz fanboy will do that to you.

  • avatar
    njgreene

    Those damn foreign automakers, building plants in the US and selling better cars! Where the hell do they get off?

  • avatar
    geeber

    John Horner: Crazy Uncle Pete has been in love with General Motors since he was a toddler and isn’t about to let the facts cloud his judgment.

    His father was Anthony DeLorenzo, the head of GM’s PR during its glory years. Peter was basically born into the GM family…

  • avatar
    Mike66Chryslers

    Protectionist policies got Detroit into this mess, and now they’re going to get Detroit out of it. Sure.

    The counter-move would be for a foreign manufacturer to buy a large interest in one of the big-3 then arrange a deal to have their cars rebadged and sold through the “home team” dealerships.

    Carlos Ghosn, if you’re reading this, now is the time to step-in and buy Chrysler to save it from the clutches of GM!

  • avatar

    I will be willing to pay an additional 1500 dollars on a vehicle made by a foreign company. In fact I would be willing to pay 2500 dollars.

    Wouldn’t it be even easier if the retirees of the big three were simply put on medicare instead of their existing private health insurance. My father when he died (he was 91) paid 200 dollars a month for a supplemental health care plan that covered whatever medicare didn’t cover. You can’t tell me that my father on his county government pension and social security could afford that but the big three retirees can’t affors that. BTW this is not an anti union post as I am addressing the benefits of all the retired employees union and non union of the big three

  • avatar
    ronin

    He wants us to be forced to have our children’s pockets picked to pay for a commercial enterprise.

    I say rather than welfare to jumbo corporations, let’s just call them a charity. As a matter of fact, we can call them a charity today. We can voluntarily send them our spare cash to put into their general treasury.

    In short, we don’t have to wait for the government. Let’s start with Petey. Exactly how much has he voluntarily contributed directly to GM out of his own savings- I bet it’s a lot, since he presumably wants to set an example of what he wants us to be forced to do.

  • avatar
    Gardiner Westbound

    Decades of craptastic cars and scummy business practices brought down the Detroit-3. A steady stream of horrible vehicles that paled in terms of quality, reliability, durability, desirability, satisfaction, and value for money relative to Asian and German competitors squandered consumer goodwill. Embittered by abysmal product quality and atrocious customer care tens of millions of potential buyers, an entire generation, permanently deleted domestic brands from consideration.

  • avatar
    Usta Bee

    Now would be a good time to invest money in a company that makes plywood…..for all the houses and factories that’ll be boarded up in Detroit.

  • avatar
    menno

    (Maxwell Smart voice):

    eh_political, yes, the oooooold printing press trick, eh?

    Yes. It’s called HYPERINFLATION.

    Google Weimar Republic Hyperinflation to get a real quick education about what is in store for the United States and much of Western Civilization unless we can get a handle on this thing.

    http://www.dailyreckoning.us/blog/?p=924

    I’ll give everybody a little hint. Bailing out the fatcat bankers drove the train over the cliff edge, for the Untied Status of Amerika.

    History books will look back at that and pinpoint when America actually died.

  • avatar
    hurls

    I’d love someone to help me figure out where his “1 in 14 jobs are directly related to the domestic auto industry” line.

    Not having time to look it up, let’s just say that there are 100 million jobs in the US (1/3 of the population works — total guestimate). That would mean that 14 million jobs are directly related to the domestic auto industry. That seems nonsensical, even accounting for parts suppliers (all in Mexico and China now anyway), dealers, service, etc.

    Not to say that losing all 3 of the 2.8 wouldn’t have a major economic impact, but that 1 in 14 thing seems ridiculous.

    It seems obvious in hindsight that the 2.8 should have gone bankrupt a while back and used that opportunity to shed contracts that they can’t possibly afford and dealer structures that aren’t supported by reality. Peter D. has actually said something similar.

    Now that it’s too late, I’m not sure what can be done besides a bailout.

  • avatar
    crackers

    I suspect a $250 – $1500 tax on non-US car manufacturers won’t make much difference. We are already used to paying a premium for Toyota and Honda. If price were the only issue, then we would still be buying North American vehicles.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    That rant is the best example of pure leftist ideological thinking I’ve seen in a long time.

    Bravo to you Peter. Thank you for helping clear thinking individuals understand the foolishness of your political and economic philosophy.

    I’m still left wondering who would read that garbage and say, “Yeah, let’s do this.”

  • avatar
    jkross22

    Redistribution of wealth

  • avatar
    eh_political

    @ Menno:

    Hey, I missed your earlier comment on another thread re Zimbabwe…. It’s not over yet, but once the stampede into US Treasuries subsides, inflation will surely follow. Hopefully not Weimar levels, but I recommend loading up on some Canadian precious metals stocks.

    I would suggest that all of this branding people as “socialist” is perhaps missing the point. The whole response to a crisis long in the making is rather ad hoc and reflexive.

    What GM(W) really needs is a Mullaly of its own. Plus a bailout. Plus a purge of the sr. executive ranks. (Show trials if necessary?) The most useful purpose one could find for Chrysler now, is a quick death to focus domestic minds.

    What the domestic industry needs is symmetrical protection. That is to say, the creation of a relationship that differs in accordance with each country that currently exports cars to America. Therefore, if China wants access, they must engage in JV’s with an American unit to the tune of 50%. Korea and Japan must also experience the sort of discriminatory barriers that largely froze out foreign competition.

  • avatar

    this kind of taxation is why we have to suffer with overpriced, subsidized corn ethanol rather than cheap, efficient (8 times more than corn) sugar ethanol

    subsidies and tariffs DO NOT WORK to further economic interests of the whole, they only work to further personal interests.

    Anyone can learn this in Freshman World Politics or Economics 100.

  • avatar
    whatdoiknow1

    this kind of taxation is why we have to suffer with overpriced, subsidized corn ethanol rather than cheap, efficient (8 times more than corn) sugar ethanol

    Will sugar grow in the same climate and land that we aer using to grow corn in the USA?

  • avatar
    menno

    Yes, sugar can grown in the USA. It’s called Sugar Beets.

    When I lived in the UK I’d go from Lowestoft to Cambridge to go to one of about 6 Lutheran churches in the entire British Isles, and we’d pass a “sugar factory” on the way. Horrible stench. (I’ve heard they’ve added pollution controls, now).

    They took sugar beets, and made sugar and sold it in the shops for the entire UK.

    You can make ethanol out of sugar, but why would you bother when it has 70% of the energy of gasoline?

    Butanol, a 4-carbon chain alcohol, is 90% of the energy of gasoline; it can be piped through oil pipelines (unlike ethanol, a 2-carbon chain alcohol); like ethanol, it can be made from non-food (grasses, etc); unlike ethanol, it has been successfully run in gasoline automobiles with virtually no changes.

    http://www.butanol.com

    Of course, you realize that America’s fascination with ethanol is simply due to our “esteemed” Congress backing the wrong horse in the Carter administration, by subsidizing “gasohol” and ignoring bio-butanol.

    The Dummycrats did it again….

  • avatar
    eh_political

    @ cretinx:

    A lot of Econ101 texts may be in for revisions following the current crisis. Greenspan’s mea culpa, and Paul Krugman’s first blog post put the lie to current models and conceptions of American Capitalism. Krugman loves trade, btw.

    Again, as a Canadian, I stress my faith in free trade, but it takes willful ignorance to assume your Asian trading partners are engaged in that form of trade. What they do fits the definition of mercantilism to a “T”, and America has been wealthy enough in the past to permit them to get away with it.

    Situations evolve, and successful nations evolve strategies, rather than clinging to static articles of faith, economic or otherwise. I’m afraid it’s time to adapt or die. Current faith in “free markets” dug this hole, and they won’t get you out.

  • avatar
    Lichtronamo

    The counterpoint to AE’s Rant #469 is this story in the LA Times by Ken Bensinger:

    Are the Big Three Worth Saving?

    http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-fi-autos28-2008oct28,0,7961069.story

  • avatar
    John Horner

    “Anyone can learn this in Freshman World Politics or Economics 100.”

    Which classes are built on beliefs of a more religious/ideological basis than most professors will ever admit.

    China is the fastest growing economy in the world right now, and clearly doesn’t have anything remotely akin to a free trade policy.

  • avatar
    Gardiner Westbound

    The Reagan administration embargoed Japanese imports so the Detroit-3 could catch up. Domestic automakers increased prices and executive bonuses and continued to grind out the same old crap. Now look at the fix they’re in!

  • avatar
    eh_political

    @ Gardiner Westbound :

    That is so true. And since a 10 Billion bailout package eclipses the current value of both companies, the US Government should effectively become owner. Turf the Board, turf upper management, and curb the union. Actually sounds more like a French course of action, (except the union part), but there you go.

    It would appear that the managerial class, invented when companies became too large and unwieldy for owners to expand, have come to view themselves as owners by default. Punishment is in order, even if it takes the form of a lifetime in the courts.

  • avatar
    chris724

    “Butanol, a 4-carbon chain alcohol, is 90% of the energy of gasoline … http://www.butanol.com/”

    Hey, I remember reading about this butanol years ago. Why is that whole web page still written in the future tense? If it’s so great, why aren’t they making the stuff yet? They could have been selling it by the truckload when gas hit $4+ this summer. Looks like vaporware to me…

  • avatar
    Robert Schwartz

    The funny thing is that if you compare actual sale prices (subsidized financing included) between “domestic” and transplant comparable vehicles, I would wager that the transplants sell at higher prices than the “domestics”.

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