By on July 16, 2021

Yesterday, I got Musked*.

I wrote an op-ed about how I think the Cybertruck won’t sell well over the long term, though I do expect it to sell strongly at first. I said it might be the first real flop from Tesla.

Perhaps predictably, it caused quite the stir among the company’s fans on Twitter.

I got accused of being paid off by the legacy OEMs (not true, and anyone who reads this site regularly knows we’re just as critical of them), of being bought off by the OEM who hosted my dinner the night the Cybertruck was unveiled (I provided that anecdote for color/background, the dinner had nothing to do with my opinion of the truck), of being bitter I wasn’t invited to the truck’s launch (I wasn’t upset about that), of having stock in an OEM (I don’t, as knowingly owning OEM stock would be unethical. Whatever stock I have in retirement and investment accounts is blind to me), and of all sorts of other things.

I was even accused of writing “clickbait.” Never mind that a) We want you to read everything we publish and b) it’s not mutually exclusive to hold an opinion and also anticipate it might get clicks. It’s completely fine to have a take and expect it to get attention. It’s not some violation of journalistic ethics. It’s not a cynical play for clicks.

I think even Elon Musk himself either re-tweeted or subtweeted the piece.

All this kerfuffle over a prediction.

I didn’t say one shouldn’t buy the Cybertruck — I wouldn’t do that without having driven the thing, unless perhaps I was laying out a comparison of specs and pricing between the Tesla and the competition. That wasn’t the purpose of the piece. I did say I kinda find the truck to be ugly and that based on what we know about it, I don’t think it will be as useful in terms of utility as the competition. That’s it.

Yet, TTAC’s Twitter was swarmed. Swarmed, I tells ya. Again, over a prediction. Made by one automotive journalist. One of many.

I’ve never seen anything like it. I can’t imagine the response would’ve been one-tenth the same if I had said the Ford Bronco or Ford Maverick or Chevrolet Corvette C8 or Ford Lightning would be a sales flop.

I’m not complaining, mind you. We got clicks, and while the reaction from Tesla fans was over the top, I wasn’t truly harassed via either TTAC’s account or my personal Twitter (of course, I know how it might have been different if I weren’t a straight, white male).

But I am amused that a mere sales prediction could stir the stans to that level. If it were me, and a writer predicted a car I was excited about would flop, I might get annoyed, sure. But then I’d move on with my life. I don’t have that much invested (in terms of personality and/or financial stake) in any one company or product.

To be clear, I don’t mind those who actually raised legitimate, valid arguments about why I might be wrong. The whole point of writing an opinion piece is to drive conversation, to provoke thought, and to stir debate (the clicks are a nice side benefit). If I am going to argue something, I expect pushback, and as long as it’s intellectually honest and reasonable, it’s all good.

And to be fair, I didn’t get as in-depth with my arguments as I sometimes would — I wanted to keep the piece brief.

What baffles me, though, is the level of vitriol over what is ultimately just a guess made by one guy sitting in front of a laptop. It’s like being a Chicago Bears fan and wanting to take to Twitter to call some slicked-hair pundit on ESPN a brainless moron because he says the team will only win three games this year.

Yeah, you might disagree, and maybe his take is bad, but is it worth getting that fired up over?

A lot of the Tesla fans seem to think I will be upset if I am wrong. Well, I won’t be. If the Cybertruck is a sales hit and stays a hit, there’s no skin off my back. I won’t likely be fired over getting a prediction wrong. I won’t be losing sleep over it. The worse thing that happens is some people with too much time on their hands dunk on me on Twitter. I can handle that.

If I won’t be losing sleep over whether a car that I have no stake in will or won’t be a sales hit, why are the Tesla fans — especially those who have no financial stake in the company — so worried about what one journalist predicts?

*I wish I could take credit for “musked” but it came from another journalist I know.

[Image: Tesla]

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95 Comments on “Opinion: I Will Never Understand Tesla Fans...”


  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Never mess with a zealot.

  • avatar
    schmitt trigger

    Welcome to the brave new world, where keyboard warriors can, and will, skewer you from the anonymous safety that the internet provides.

    But hey! Publicity is publicity, good or bad.
    As a fact, the more polarizing point of view a journalist holds, the more influential he/she becomes.

  • avatar
    jack4x

    There’s an overtone of righteousness and higher stakes with Tesla fans that I haven’t noticed among fans of other carmakers or even companies in general.

    In short, Tesla is CHANGING THE WORLD and if you deign to criticize them or even constructively point out their many faults you are complicit in DESTROYING THE CLIMATE.

    Ford vs Chevy or Toyota vs Honda are fun and generally good natured. Even if it gets ugly once in a while, people on Twitter just haven’t made those companies such a part of who they are and the image they want to project to the world. Add in our polarized political climate, and the results speak for themselves.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      @jack4x,

      “Ford vs Chevy or Toyota vs Honda are fun and generally good natured.”

      You have taken my head off more than once regarding Stellantis vs. Other. Just sayin.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “Qu’ils mangent de la brioche”

      • 0 avatar
        jack4x

        @ToolGuy,

        If so, that was not my intention, because I don’t even really consider myself a die hard fan of theirs (I’ve only ever owned one of their products in my life). Commenting on car sites is fun for me, but I try not to take anything about it too seriously. What difference is it to me what someone else chooses to spend their money on?

        Even so, I hope I didn’t come off looking as bad as some of these Tesla people have, if I did then I apologize.

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          @jack4x,

          No apology necessary – I am well aware that my ‘name’ here has two meanings and I often live up to the second one.

          I agree that -some- Tesla… advocates? supporters? take it to the next level. But some legacy OEM fans(/employees/dealers) get pretty irrational themselves at times, especially when the topic of Tesla comes up.

          In my spectacularly unsuccessful ‘career’ I often advocated for new approaches to old problems, and naturally met with resistance [until I didn’t, at which time the workload tended to become overwhelming relatively quickly]. The new isn’t perfect and neither was the old.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    Musk has created one of the all time best hype machines in world history.
    It’s all starting to slowly come unhinged, and it’s fun to watch.

    The only question now is will he still be in business to hire Greta Thunberg as Climate Czarina when she graduates from uni in a couple years.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Everything Tesla has produced has been a flop. They lose money on their vehicles, they are very low quality, and they’re not very good.

    The CyberPuke is vaporware. It can’t flop because it won’t see the light of day.

    Tesla fans are really the worst kind of people. They are so drunk on the Tesla koolaid that they refuse to see facts and reason. They will ignore the poor build quality, the endless issues, the fact they overpaid, and the fact the company is run by a snake oil sales man to talk up this pathetic brand. I don’t get it. The vehicles are garbage. Wake up Tesla mouth breathers!

    • 0 avatar
      Imagefont

      For once I agree with you. Tesla will never build this vehicle, it’s just a show car and a conversation piece so everyone talks about Tesla – and it’s working because websites like TTAC need something to talk about, even if it’s a joke, like this stupid abomination some people refer to as a truck.
      But the reservations! Yeah, $100 bucks refundable, which is meaningless.
      As I’ve always said: people are stupid.

    • 0 avatar
      rolandoblomblando

      On the first point, my wife just got a model 3 and I think quality was a little mixed. Interior is actually excellent quality. Exterior panel gaps and alignment were not terrible, but for a car in this price range it would have been unacceptable to me, but she didn’t seem to mind.

      On your second point, although I think the cybertruck looks ridiculous, I think they’ve gone too far and committed too much to simply not build it. I think it will have massive production problems and build quality issues at first and the idiotic cold rolled steel will prove to be way more trouble than it was ever worth. Somewhat unfortunately though, they will almost certainly build it.

      And yes I agree, generally, that Tesla’s fan base is a little too crazy, but it will die down eventually once they stop being the underdog.

    • 0 avatar
      rolandoblomblando

      On the first point, my wife just got a model 3 and I think quality was a little mixed. Interior is actually excellent quality. Exterior panel gaps and alignment were not terrible, but for a car in this price range it would have been unacceptable to me, but she didn’t seem to mind.

      On your second point, although I think the cybertruck looks ridiculous, I think they’ve gone too far and committed too much to simply not build it. I think it will have massive production problems and build quality issues at first and the idiotic cold rolled steel will prove to be way more trouble than it was ever worth. Somewhat unfortunately though, they will almost certainly build it.

      And yes I agree, generally, that Tesla’s fan base is a little too crazy, but it will die down eventually once they stop being the underdog.

  • avatar
    Norman Stansfield

    The same humanoids who think Conor McGregor is a good fighter probably worship at the altar of Elon. Wouldn’t worry about it.

  • avatar
    JMII

    The people I know who have Telsa’s are ex BMW and Audi owners… and they seem pretty normal. I think there is a big difference between Telsa fans and Telsa owners. You’ll find fan boys of every brand, its just Telsa’s owners tend to be a bit louder on these interwebs. However this makes sense given the car comes with a web-browser just to use the wipers ;)

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Fanboy owners…yep. I am on an Audi facebook group, and you should see the goings on. Typical post, from user “Gfunk Era”:

      “In need of a good shop to take my b8 s4 that ha drivetrain faults. Getting p179e and p179f coming up for the range selector. Found a tsb on the issue but I have 150k so im well out of any warranty. Looked in to parts and if I have to tear it down that far I would change few other parts as well and im at around $2500 just in parts. Im debating on taking it to a shop even though I usually don’t trust anyone but myself working on my own vehicles but I’m being such a time consuming repair I just don’t really have the time at the moment so if anyone has any suggestions it would be much appreciated.”

      It’s all day, every day…

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        Owner forums for vehicles tend to be extremely defensive places where you can’t make a negative comment without sandwiching in 3 positive ones to offset.

        Meanwhile on owner forums for RVs you can’t compliment the product without sandwiching in 3 negative ones and stating how other brands are better.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Not necessarily. About a month ago, some guy posted a picture of the five-year-old A4 he was going to buy and asked for advice. I told him to buy a warranty. I also posted several times that I was sick of the bulls**t issues with my A3. I was not booted.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Following up on my earlier post about Audi fanboys…this showed up on Facebook marketplace today, had to share:

        2004 Audi S4 Quattro Sedan 4D
        $2,000
        180,000 miles

        https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/105671302799087/?ref=notif&hoisted_items=200398978696066

        **needs new engine**
        Pros:
        2.7t swapped
        2 brand new k04 turbos not even 100 miles on them
        Brand new 750cc injectors
        Ecu tuned to run on e85
        Custom white recaro leather interior
        Comes with original black leather interior
        Comes with the extra set of wheels
        Cons: needs new 2.7t engine if you want to go back to the 4.2 v8 you can
        Needs new hood, bumper and right fender

        So…guy bought a played-out S4 with 180,000 miles, with bad bodywork. So, Albert Einstein here swaps in 2.7t and added all kinds of tuner s**t, and now it needs a new engine. But fear not, you can swap in a 4.2 V-8, no prob,

        No doubt he’ll meet you after he gets off work at 7-11 to show it to you. Work him hard and he’ll toss in a months’ supply of Axe and a 12 pack of Ramses condoms.

        All day, every day, folks…derpity-derp…

    • 0 avatar
      285exp

      What’s the difference between a (Porsche-Audi-BMW-Tesla) owner and a porcupine?

    • 0 avatar
      MrIcky

      Tesla fans and apple fans- cut from same cloth. There are a lot of people with apple phones who are just “ya I needed a phone, this one’s pretty cool”, then there are the people waiting outside overnight to get the next model phone.

      Its the same damn thing for the Tesla stans and they’ll talk your ear off about all sorts of green initiatives they don’t even understand and just simply won’t shut up about their cars.

      Everyone’s gotta have a cause I guess.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        No. Not even close. Apple fans will not put up with mediocrity. They have very high expectations for the quality of the product they pay for. And for the vast majority of the time, Apple meets those high standards. Apple isn’t infallible and their fans know that.

        • 0 avatar
          MrIcky

          “No. Not even close. Apple fans will not put up with mediocrity” Sure they do, they do it all the time. The ‘closed system’ makes boring things work fine- but closing out game streaming, inferior music streaming without buying deeper into the apple branded merch. AAC is not as good as ldac either. They leave a lot on the table. But they’re pretty and run their closed system apps well if that’s all you aspire to.

        • 0 avatar
          Pug

          I use Macs but I don’t have an iPhone ‘cause I can’t afford to pay Apple’s prices for both my laptop AND phone. I can only speak for the Mac side, but it seems like everyone on Mac forums is bitching these days and is pretty blase about everything Apple touching turning to shit. Like “Yeah, our platform sucks, but I think Windows is still a bit worse”. OS updates are buggy as hell. Their app rewrites are pissing everyone off; mostly less intuitive and less featured.

          If I run my Macbook’s 2560×1600 Retina display at 1280×800 theoretical pixels, which according to all Apple’s PREVIOUS explanations of Retina, is what I SHOULD be doing and will look the crispest, many Big Sur OS preference panes don’t even fit on screen without sliding under the dock, and they don’t scroll either like they used to. The Apple of today can’t even notice that stuff. I could go on and on about Big Sur. And why’s my headphone jack now on the wrong side?

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        It has been several generations ago that anyone was waiting in line for the newest iPhone. I would argue that Apple, especially iOS device buyers are like Toyota buyers…they buy them know the device is going to work. There is no “you just install and do this workaround because Android Auto is broken again” BS. And if you want to keep the phone for more than 3 years it is really the only choice unless you don’t care about updates or security fixes. I believe the 6s is still getting security updates. That is an eterninty in the mobile world.

        I buy Android mid tier stuff because my phones live a rough life and typically don’t make it past a year or so, but if I ever thought I was going beyoind 2 years, iPhone is the only one I’d even consider.

    • 0 avatar
      boowiebear

      Great point. I am Tesla owner. Was a former ICE luxury brand owner. I bought my Tesla for the vehicle it is not for any environmental mission. I am super critical of Musk but the Model 3 Performance I bought is an amazing car and I love it. I can love my car and think he is full of sh!t most of the time. Not hard!

  • avatar
    ajla

    Twitter is a septic tank inside another, larger septic tank.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    “I will never understand Tesla fans.”

    Oh, but I think you do.

    As a thought experiment, replace “Tesla” with “Trump”, and all will become clear. I say this as a former Tesla reservation holder and former Trump voter, having since defected to a middle ground on both.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @SCE to AUX – I would just “LOL” your comment if it wasn’t bang on correct. Social media algorithms grossly attenuate fanboyism and/or extreme ideology. You can always find validation at the detriment of truth. We crave validation. Social media gives that to you. Mouthpieces hide behind the anonymity of the keyboard.

      “Social media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it. – Mike Tyson.”

    • 0 avatar
      Mustangfast

      Quite true. And it’s funny to watch people twist themselves to a pretzel when they’re forced to agree with something opposite of their dogmatic view that Tesla is always right or trump is always wrong.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        David Frum believes 13 things were right during his term in office:
        – Stricter regulation of vaping
        – Dramatic reductions in the burning of coal (due to his ineptitude in supporting coal)
        – Normalization in the Middle East
        – Safeguarding 5G networks from Chinese control (that was happening around world without him)
        – Appointment of Jerome Powell as Federal Reserve chair (That was based more on aesthetics but turned out to be a good decision.)
        – Destruction of the ISIS caliphate in eastern Syria and northern Iraq (and virtually ever allied country in the world was assisting)
        – Speeding generic drug approval
        – Tightening asylum rules (the rest of the immigration stuff was a mess0
        – Nearly doubling the standard tax deduction
        – Restoring due process on campus
        – A space force (reaching here but okay)
        – Criminal-justice reform
        – Civic participation (that’s mostly because he was so horrible at his job)

        Kinda sh!tty for a guy that had majority in the senate and house for 1/2 of his term.

        Not enough bandwidth for a post on what he got wrong!

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    If you want to talk about fanbois, don’t exclude Mustang and Corvette owners. When it comes to sanctimonious, self righteous twits, nothing compares to a Prius owner.

    Tesla has accomplished more than any startup in decades. Just realizing they needed the Supercharger network to make their cars viable showed greater vision than any of their competition. Consider how many basically good cars have fallen by the wayside in less than a century. Tesla is ahead of all the other manufacturers despite starting from scratch with no experience building automobiles let alone automobiles with a new form of propulsion technology. At the beginning, Tesla had to choose between developing electric propulsion or building refined vehicles. The picked, wisely in my opinion, the former and are now catching up on the latter.

    I’m not sure if I will buy a BEV. If I do, it will be a Tesla, most likely a long range Model 3. They are just that far ahead of all their competition.

    • 0 avatar
      jalop1991

      @Kendahl: “When it comes to sanctimonious, self righteous twits, nothing compares to a Prius owner.”

      Unless it’s a former Prius owner that’s switched to a Tesla car.

      Witness Bob Wilson, bwilson4web. He defines that. Even Tesla stans look at Bob and say, “wow, dude…”

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    @Tim Healy,

    “anyone who reads this site regularly knows we’re just as critical of them”
    No, you aren’t.

    “I’m not complaining, mind you.”
    You are complaining or you aren’t complaining? (You take umbrage, but you aren’t complaining? A little murky here.)

    I ain’t on Twitter and I have little interest in what happens on Twitter.

    [As far as Tesla, I like some things about Tesla and dislike other things about Tesla.]

  • avatar
    Lightspeed

    It’s a very expensive toy sold to people who love very expensive toys, the margins will be huge and they know how many to build. The numbers may say ‘flop’ but the profits will keep it afloat as long as Musk needs it to make it to the next very expensive toy for people who like very expensive toys.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    100 years from now if we haven’t destroyed ourselves Musk will be as reviled as much as Edison is today.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Doubtful, Musk will have been deified by then.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      “100 years from now if we haven’t destroyed ourselves Musk will be as reviled as much as Edison is today.”

      Exhibit A of your typical rabid Tesla fanpersonism (<—gender neutral for the snowflakes here)

      Thing is, reality is far different. Musk has not done a single thing that would put him on par with Edison’s underwear let alone Edison himself. Musk, at best, is a mediocre business man. At worst he’s a deceptive snake oil sales man.

      It’s insulting to compare him to Edison.

      • 0 avatar
        MrIcky

        Which is an ironic thing to say since Edison’s second biggest claim to fame is how flagrantly he stole from Tesla…

        • 0 avatar
          Mackie

          No, I believe it was Marconi who stole from Tesla.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Technically, in the AC vs DC battle, Tesla beat Edison. In a perfect world, that would be that. However in Edison’s corner was J.P. Morgan and much like it is now, he who has the best lawyer wins and very few people were going to be able to outspend J.P. Morgan on lawyers. Certainly not Tesla and George Westinghouse.

  • avatar
    carcomment

    Tim, i am no fan of EV anything in general or Tesla specifically. And while the internet is rift with fanbois of all kinds, as someone who regularly reads your car reviews, i would suggest you spend less time predicting the future and more time learning to craft a meaningful review. About 2/3 of your reviews simply regurgitate mfger spec sheets-lazy and low effort. And assuming people want to read the ill informed potificating predicitons of an internet writer, i’d simply say ‘tell us your historical predicition accuracy rate’ so i perhaps might care what you think. For the record i slways laugh at predictions by pseudo experts including those i might foolishly offer from time to time. And if you have no stake in it we should assume you did it for the clicks knowing full wellvthe reaction it would get. Did you write this piece before the initial ‘insight’ was posted? My BS meter says you did. Alfred E Nueman said it best though about ill informed opinions with no skin in gthe game-suitable for framing or wrapping fish.

    PS i wouldnt be caught dead in a cybertruck or any EV until they can fully charge from E in 5 minutes, you know like a car. I value my time.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      “I value my time.”

      That’s why I charge my EV at night. It costs me about 5 minutes a month.

      • 0 avatar
        jalop1991

        “That’s why I charge my EV at night. It costs me about 5 minutes a month.”

        I love that people spend $50K+ for cars to commute with.

        I used Tesla’s trip planner to tell me how I would go from my house to the beach. It’s a 10.5 hour drive, and I stop once for gas. But Tesla would have me stop 5 times, and says it would take me 12.something hours. (And I don’t have the flexibility of routes or even last minute route changes should traffic screw up, which happens.)

        And when I get there, there’s one supercharger and one destination charger at a brewpub. So I have two weeks of dealing with THAT.

        And of course, I drive around regionally as part of my job–nothing on the market supports that today.

        So go ahead and spend your 5 minutes a month plugging and unplugging in your garage. The rest of the world has a life to live that doesn’t involve being pinned to home.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          “The rest of the world has a life to live that doesn’t involve being pinned to home.”

          Exactly how does having only a 300 or 400-mile range keep you pinned to home??

          Lets analyze what you are saying. You decided to make it harder for us by not giving locations or distances, but no problem.

          Let’s assume 10.5 miles means 735 miles. Stopping 5 times means 147 miles average between charges. A long range Model 3 using independent 70-mile range testing is a little more than twice that range at 300 miles.

          Indianapolis Indiana is about 710 miles from the beach at Asbury Park NJ, which I suppose is a typical trip to the beach for ” The rest of the world has a life to live”. Using the Tesla web site planner, you get 5 stops and 13 hours. Using a real EV route planner like abetterrouteplanner it drops to 4 charging stops with a total of only 1 hour and 11 minutes charging time. So that’s an average of 15 minutes per stop with the longest at 28 minutes at Breezewood PA. That’s not far from what I assume most reasonable people would do with an ICE. A Model 3 standard range+ brings the stops up to 6 with a time range of 8 minutes to 31 minutes adding up to 13.5 hours for the trip. The same trip in an ICE in reality would probably be 4 stops of at least 15 minutes and probably the same total time as a Model 3 long range.

          It’s ridiculous to claim that most of the world needs to make 700-mile trips to the beach and has to do it with only one stop or it’s a deal-breaker. So absurd. How is that being pinned to home? But, that’s the tactic, isn’t it?

          • 0 avatar
            jalop1991

            “Exactly how does having only a 300 or 400-mile range keep you pinned to home??”

            I was commenting on the statement of “I spend 5 minutes a month fueling my car.” He goes home and plugs it in.

            Whether or not he wants to acknowledge it, he’s expressing that (a) he has tied himself to his home, and (b) he has range anxiety.

            And for the record, when I used Tesla’s route planner I specified a long range Model 3. So even Tesla says it will cost me an extra 90+ minutes. I also had Tesla show me where to charge up, and there’s one Supercharger in the entire area. While at the beach I don’t just sit on the porch and stare at the ocean; I drive enough that I would require recharging, and that’s not possible at any rental house in the area.

            What’s this “using a real route planner” business? I assume Tesla has a good handle on where their stuff is.

            But you’re not doing anything to change the fact that using an EV for a trip requires detailed refueling planning (including finding the “better” trip planner?) and no opportunity for wandering off, be it for casual “I wonder where this goes” or “oh crap, Waze says there’s a 2 hour delay up ahead, let’s re-route”.

            As someone said, using an EV for a trip currently requires that you plan it like you’re planning the D-Day invasion.

            “That’s not far from what I assume most reasonable people would do with an ICE.” Ah, here we go–the cry of the Tesla stan. “Eh, recharging is no big deal. You’re going to stop for lunch anyway, right?” Yeah–every 2-3 hours I’m going to stop to eat for an hour plus. Sure. That old saw has been around since the first Model S hit the road, and it’s getting old.

            “It’s ridiculous to claim that most of the world needs to make 700-mile trips to the beach and has to do it with only one stop or it’s a deal-breaker.” Ah, so we went from “it’s no problem, it’s perfectly doable just like with an ICE” to “besides, you don’t need to do that anyway”.

            Thanks for planning my life for me.

            And tell me again how I fuel up at the Outer Banks and casually choose to drive down to Hatteras from Corolla? Oh, I forgot–it’s ridiculous to want to do that, right?

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “and no opportunity for wandering off, be it for casual “I wonder where this goes” or “oh crap, Waze says there’s a 2 hour delay up ahead, let’s re-route”.”

            Not a problem. I’ve done that plenty of times. A 300-mile range gives you plenty of options. For example, Boston to Dearborn MI shows 4 stops for charging at exactly spots I’d stop at in an ICE. A total of 56 minutes charging added to 12.5 hours of driving. No difference from what it took me in an ICE. The spacing is approximately half the cars range. I’m also bypassing several superchargers and non-Tesla quick chargers and level 2s. Actually,checking the plugshare map for the route, I’m actually kind of surprised at the huge numbers of level 2 and level 3 chargers that are now out there.

            Changing the options to longer legs between charges, I could do the trip with two stops.

            By the way, how is pulling up an app or website and entering a start and destination somehow as difficult as planning for D-day?

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          “I love that people spend $50K+ for cars to commute with.”

          Are you referring to F-150s, Honda Pilots, or my Hyundai EV?

          ATPs are over $40k now. Somehow spending $50k on an empty pickup is acceptable, but spending that on a Model Y isn’t. OK.

          • 0 avatar
            jalop1991

            “Somehow spending $50k on an empty pickup is acceptable, but spending that on a Model Y isn’t.”

            …says the guy who values his time so he spends only 5 minutes a month plugging and unplugging his car, at home-apparently never going anywhere.

            Anyway, thanks for playing, but I didn’t say spending $50K on an empty pickup is acceptable. My comment stands: I love that people spend $50K+ for cars to commute with.

            Yep. You did. You spent, what–$70K? $80K? for a car to always be at home when it needs fueling. That’s commuting. Oh, and wandering to a restaurant here and there.

          • 0 avatar
            Astigmatism

            The average new car transaction price today is over $40k. Approximately a quarter of all cars cost over $50k. If you’re going to spend an hour a day in your car, and you can afford it, you may as well do it in something nice that you enjoy.

            And yes, most people use their cars to commute: I commute to work five times a week, but I haven’t gone on a 10.5 hour drive since the last time I drove to Canada about a decade ago. Which use case do you think people should put more weight on when considering their next car purchase: the one they do every day, or the one they might do every couple of years?

            BTW, the whole point of the plug-in-it-at-home thing is that, as long as you’re using your car for commuting rather than long trips, you never, ever, have to go to a gas station. So sure, fill-ups take twice as long when you’re on that rare road trip, but for the rest of the year you’re saving ten minutes a week or so that you’d otherwise spend at a gas station.

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          @jalop1991:

          I got a Hyundai EV after test-driving a Tesla. It’s a lease, so the after-Fed-subsidized price was $22500.

          It has accrued 32k miles in less than 3 years. Stuck at home, I’m not.

          I have a gas car for longer drives. I like gas cars, too, bit I save $0.17/mile when I drive the EV.

          • 0 avatar
            jalop1991

            Ah, so now EV owners end up having second cars that don’t have EV limitations.

            Or in some cases, they just trade the EV in for an ICE vehicle…

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @jalop: You don’t need an ICE for long distances. EVs are superior for both distances and on a day to day basis. You don’t have the torque-lag or the performance/acceleration limitations ICE has. Nothing worse than ICE torque lag. You have to take time and find gas station and freeze outside pumping gas. It’s fueled and ready to go every morning ready too go. Long distance normal people are going to stop every two or three hours for a break and it’s enough time for a quick charge.

            You’re going to start seeing range anxiety creeping in for ICE vehicles. As gas stations dump their pumps for more profitable chargers, gas will start getting scarcer. Probably start seeing it in 5 years or so. Owing an ICE will become a nightmare. You know I’m right. It’s coming.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “Probably start seeing it in 5 years or so.”

            I appreciate you willing to put an actual date on it but outside of people living in the actual shadow of a skyscraper this seems extremely unlikely over that timeframe. Almost the entirety of the current used consumer and commercial vehicle fleet is ICE, the average age of a vehicle on the road is 12 years old, banks are still writing 7 years loans on ICE vehicles, and many manufacturers don’t even offer a 50-state BEV right now.

      • 0 avatar
        carcomment

        Says the person who drives 50 miles a day in warm climates. LOL. Try it in winter if you drive consequential distances. I repeat EV’s will be ready when physics permits 5 minute charging. Til then another foolish distraction.

        In the meantime, Still trying to understand all that albeit substandard charging infrastructure out there. Must be a mirage or modern art.

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          Carcomment you are 100% correct. Foolish distraction is a perfect descriptor.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          @carcomment: “Says the person who drives 50 miles a day in warm climates. LOL. Try it in winter if you drive consequential distances.”

          6 years in new England with an EV driving it 100 miles on sub-zero days.

          “I repeat EV’s will be ready when physics permits 5 minute charging. ”

          Actually, the laws of physics do allow it. What you can do is split the pack electrically and run multiple chargers in parallel. Tesla semi appears to be doing just that by the looks of its connector. I’m doing dual chargers in several custom applications. It works great.

          youtube.com/watch?v=_TWGcy0a1r4

          https://electricrevs.com/2019/02/15/how-to-supercharge-a-tesla-semi/

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            Lol!!!

            Congrats on driving a pitiful 100 miles in your little Power Wheels.

            I can get hundreds and hundreds of miles from an ICE engine in sub zero temps and can fill it in 5 minutes. ICE is so much better than EVs its astounding.

          • 0 avatar
            carcomment

            I agree that physics may permit it. Economic physics doesnt or it would have been done. I also dont dispute your driving experience. Most EV drivers have very different experiences in cold climates with bumper to bumper commutes. EVs presently work for the very few and this will be true for the forseeable future. However given time and investments there is no reason to believe they will not work. After all they simple convert fossil fuels at a factory to electricity which powers a car simply altering where the fossils are burned. Eventually solar power may, wind wont and nuclear can reduce fossils-eventually as in not for a long while. Too many people believe electricity is magic that comes from outlets not from burning carbons.

          • 0 avatar
            jalop1991

            “EVs are superior for both distances and on a day to day basis. You don’t have the torque-lag or the performance/acceleration limitations ICE has. Nothing worse than ICE torque lag. You have to take time and find gas station and freeze outside pumping gas.”

            Did you really say this with a straight face?

            I got gas yesterday. For some reason or another, I didn’t have find a gas station–I just stopped into one that was right where I was driving–nor did I freeze while standing there pumping gas.

            Oh, wait–while spending under 5 minutes inserting 400 more miles of energy into my car.

          • 0 avatar
            jalop1991

            https://youtu.be/Hatav_Rdnno

  • avatar
    vanpressburg

    Progressive fascists

  • avatar
    Scoutdude

    Or do you understand them quite well? Seriously how can one exist as a automotive journalist, or someone even remotely interested in the auto industry not know that the Tesla fans will attack at the slightest provocation?

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      Tesla fandom is just like every other kind of automotive fandom.

      Jeep guys like Jeeps for reasons that don’t make sense to the rest of us, pickup truck guys like pickups for reasons that don’t make sense to the rest of us. Tesla guys like Teslas for reasons make sense to me, but not to all y’all. [shrug]

      An automotive writer’s job is to understand these things and say insightful things.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Luke42 – that is true. I just tell my self something I read decades ago about riding motorcycles, “If you have to ask me why I ride, you won’t understand the answer”. I have plenty of reasons for owning 4×4 trucks and motorcycles. It only has to matter to me.

        I don’t care what someone else buys or does with it as long as they don’t interfere with my choices or put me at risk.

  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    I left Twitter when they decided the man holding the nation’s nuclear codes couldn’t be trusted with an account.

    I could Tweet that water is wet and 300 dorks would pile in telling me I’m wrong. Who cares?

  • avatar
    dukeisduke

    I see this being a flop, too. Oh sure, the True Believers will flock to it, but Ford will sell tons more F-150 Lightnings, and GMC’s Hummer will siphon off some of the high-end (at least until the Hummers start breaking down and falling apart, thanks to the high percentage of Chinesium in them).

    Will Tesla become the EV version of Checker or American Motors, continuing to sell the same-looking stuff, without a styling refresh?

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Really was a pointless undertaking as it was delivered, would have done a little better with an actual Mustang for a number of reasons but I doubt it wouldn’t have been much better in terms of volume. F-150 EV is all that matters, in hindsight all resources squandered on the Mach should have gone into getting F-150 EV to market faster. The people who line up for these things seem to be tolerant of post-sale problems, look at Tesla buyers. Limited F150 EV sales, hell even of prototypes, probably would have worked and those early customers forgiven QC issues so long as Ford was on the case. There was never a need for a non F-150 vanguard model, be it a Mustang or a Not Mustang.

      “Will Tesla become the EV version of Checker or American Motors,”

      Likely, but even they will run into machinery issues as Ford did with Panther and eventually change some stuff up.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      The Tesla truck beats the F-150 Lightning in the paper-specs battle. But the Lightning is likely a better drop-in replacement for an ICE-powered F-150.

      Of course, we won’t know how it all works out until real customers get real trucks. It’s all just talk until that happens, at least from my vantage-point as a likely-customer.

  • avatar
    gregtwelve

    There are inherent advantages to EVs that should make them attractive as an alternative to Internal combustion engines. Electric motors can be manufactured to be extremely durable. I work with 20 year old equipment used daily that have the original servo motors still working flawlessly. I also have a Hotpoint refrigerator in my basement that came with my house decades ago which has been running continuously for over 60 years and is still ice cold. Compared to ICE motors there are far fewer parts to fail.

    That being said some disadvantages are obvious:

    – it takes much longer to charge an EV compared to fueling an ICE vehicle

    – There seems to be a relatively high incidence of battery fires in EVs which are very hard to extinguish and need special procedures in order for FD personnel to deal with (including risk of electrocution)

    – As batteries come to the end of their useful life they must be replaced at considerable cost. Also the “recycling” of them involves
    smelting them (using fossil fuels) to recover the lithium and copper.

    – The electric grid cannot now handle the increased demand if the EVs become a larger proportion of total vehicles and the increase in demand will probably be met by burning more fossil fuels. Remember that electricity from solar and wind power is anywhere from 3x to 5x more expensive.

    – Independent car repair shops will need to learn to service these vehicles as they increase in numbers and will have to transition as the ICE vehicles decrease both as a check on the dealer network and as a way to keep a very significant portion of our economy going. That also applies to gas stations as they presumably add charging stations.

    It will be a great challenge for all of us If the government and car manufacturers go forward with this plan to replace the internal combustion engine

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Good regurge of the internet talking points.

      As a two-time EV owner, my $0.02:
      – I spend about 5 minutes a month charging my car, because I don’t have to stand there while it charges at night.

      – A properly designed and manufactured battery will not burn unless it is punctured, which requires the same high speed impact that will incinerate an ICE car.

      – A decade into the modern EV era, very few batteries have required replacement.

      – My EV adds 20% to my electricity use. BEVs are maybe 2% of new car sales, and far less in the total vehicle pool. The grid can easily keep up.

      – I service my own EV. Brakes, wipers, cabin air filter, wiper fluid, etc are all the same. Tires are the same. A/C and steering and suspension are the same.

      Safelite replaced my windshield and an independent body shop repaired some rear end damage. Monro Muffler does my annual safety inspection. Repair manuals are available for anyone to fix the drivetrain after the warranty is up. They’re not really so exotic after all.

      • 0 avatar
        Master Baiter

        @SCE

        “I spend about 5 minutes a month charging my car, because I don’t have to stand there while it charges at night.”

        gregtwelve’s comment about charge time apply to road trips; you should know that. Your garage charger doesn’t help much when you’re crossing the Nevada desert in 110° heat where gas stations are 100 miles apart.

        “A properly designed and manufactured battery will not burn unless it is punctured,”

        How do you know the battery in YOUR EV was properly designed and manufactured? Answer: You don’t.

        “My EV adds 20% to my electricity use. BEVs are maybe 2% of new car sales…”

        20% additional electricity use is significant. His point was that if and when EVs become a large share of car sales, the grid will be strained. CA already has rolling blackouts because they’ve shuttered power plants.

        I’m glad you like your EV, but let’s not pretend they are the best solution for everyone.

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          I’ve never said EVs are the best solution for everyone, and I don’t believe that.

          California’s rolling blackouts aren’t due to EVs, but rather a host of regulatory and political reasons.

          “If and when” EVs dominate the landscape will be a very long time from now. The grid won’t remain static until then, and it can keep up.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            California is banking on the bigger electricity users leaving the state, out of business or homeless when ever possible before the EV sh!t storm. CA used to cry to households to use less between 9 to 5, but now cries to use less between 4 PM to 9 PM when wind/solar are less effective, except that’s prime EV charging time.

          • 0 avatar
            jalop1991

            “California’s rolling blackouts aren’t due to EVs, but rather a host of regulatory and political reasons.”

            The WHY of the blackouts is immaterial. The simple FACT of the blackouts with respect to “let’s add more EVs!” is crucial.

      • 0 avatar
        jalop1991

        “As a two-time EV owner, my $0.02:
        – I spend about 5 minutes a month charging my car, because I don’t have to stand there while it charges at night.”

        Because you don’t go anywhere. Bravo for you. You spent a BUNCH of money for that, when you could have bought a used Corolla to do the same commuting–and over the life of the car spent much less.

        We get it. You bought a toy. Why do you need to defend yourself by making things up about how much better it is for real world applications?

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      Extremely valid points Greg. The problem is that those disadvantages are huge and not solved anytime soon. The solution is also extremely expensive too.

      Upgrading the grid to handle all of these compliance vehicles would be a massive undertaking. And then you have to do it all over again so people can charge while on the go. Talk about waste. Electric vehicles were garbage 120 years ago and nothing has changed. They are still full of huge compromises that make them very unappealing as a replacement for a proper ICE vehicle.

  • avatar
    993cc

    I suspect that many of the fanbois are overweighted in Tesla stock and see any criticism of any Tesla product as a threat to their wealth, which would make their accusation of YOU having a conflict of interest hypocritical.

  • avatar

    I don’t understand why anyone would buy a $55,000 GM truck with silly styling and low budget interiors. At least Tesla’s offers exotic technology and exciting styling.
    We all have witnessed the panning GM truck styling has gotten on this and other forums Why anyone would put down nearly $60,000 for this trash is beyond me.

  • avatar
    Spike_in_Brisbane

    I own a Tesla and I like it but I also have two non-Teslas and I like them as well. I am interested in the Cybertruck but I doubt we’ll see any in Australia anytime soon because all the RHD Teslas come from Shanghai and I don’t see their interest in a big pickup. I enjoy variety. It annoys me that every new BEV either is or isn’t a Tesla killer. Let’s have them all. Change is good. Progress is fun.

  • avatar
    rickc519

    I forget where I read this but I think it’s true.
    The mistake is that Tesla made a truck for Tesla fans instead of making a Tesla for truck fans.

  • avatar
    Kruser

    Frankly, your piece made me reconsider a bit. I now wonder if Cybertruck sales won’t follow the pattern of niche vehicles like the AMC Pacer. Sales were really strong for a year so so, but the design is so polarizing that you quickly exhaust the pool of enthusiasts.

  • avatar
    Daveo

    I agree it’s vaporware. And as the number of companies who are going to stop buying EPA credits from them (Stellantis was first) their ONLY profitable business is going away.

    Do you know someone who (does crossfit; is a vegetarian; owns a Tesla)?

    Not sure…

    Trust me, if you did you’d know.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    No matter how much outrage you stir up by posting edgy political articles and poking the bear that is the Tesla fanbase, you’ll never be Robert Farago writing about the Subaru B9 Tribeca.

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