By on June 18, 2021

At the start of the year, the city of Chicago announced that it would be changing rules pertaining to traffic enforcement as part of Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s updated 2021 budget package. But the one that was causing the most concern among motorists was a provision to have speed cameras issue tickets to anybody traveling 6 miles an hour over the posted limit, rather than the previous cutoff of 10 MPH. While just a singular aspect of the city’s plan to resolve a $1.2-billion deficit, it turned out to be one of the most controversial items and appears to have resulted in a tenfold increase in fines.

According to local affiliate CBS Chicago, data from a public records request indicated that during the 36-day period before and after the change took effect on March 1st, citywide ticketing went up from 35,784 citations in the weeks before to a massive 398,233 in the proceeding weeks. 

Since the city has stated that some tickets would simply be warnings to remind motorists that the laws had been updated, it’s difficult to get concrete numbers. But the tally for if they had all been legitimate fines is supposed to be a whopping $871,000 despite the cameras being dotted around several alleged “Children’s Safety Zones” near parks and schools that the locals sound rather skeptical of.

From CBS Chicago:

“I see this thing going off all the time,” said Ricky Duddleston who lives right across the street from the speed camera at 3200 S. Archer Ave. “Constantly flashing … I think it’s a scam, man.”

Duddleston doesn’t buy the city’s safety zone reason for putting the camera in this location. There is a small neighborhood park a couple of blocks away. But he said, “There’s no kids walking down this street. Never.”

Money is the motive if you ask Duddleston. “City’s crying broke. How much money you think they make off these things?”

That Archer camera flashed 257 times before March 1 and 11,016 times after. Fines totaled $25,335 for city coffers. Comparing those new ticket numbers to a pre-pandemic year, that camera caught 1,853 speeders during the same period in 2019.

The rest of the CBS piece basically chronicles the massive upshift in fines at several speed camera locations with the locals expressing their dismay and issuing allegations that the city is only seeking ways to accumulate capital — including 9th Ward Alderman Anthony Beale.

“That’s ridiculous,” he said in response to the sudden deluge of traffic fines. “In times when people can’t afford to pay, now we’re hitting them over the head with ticket after ticket after ticket. This is a revenue generator, period.”

The strife being created here by these automated guardians isn’t new. The Chicago Tribune has been tracking the city’s automated speed camera program since its introduction in 2013 and complained that “hundreds of thousands of tickets” had been issued under “questionable circumstances.” Complaints include cameras that were active outside their posted hours, issuing fines in places where there was no posted speed limit, and school cameras that were active on days class wasn’t in session.

Many cameras have already individually amassed millions of dollars in fines, with Lightfoot’s proposals undoubtedly supercharging those figures if they’re retained or expanded to encompass more areas.

But do they work?

Well, that depends on what you’re hoping to accomplish. If you’re just interested in bilking the public, then you’ll be pleased to learn they’re wildly effective. Though they do seem to result in diminishing returns, as motorists will quickly realize where these cameras are located and attempt to avoid them or simply pass beneath them as slowly as possible, they appear to be rather reliable revenue generators. However, the public certainly doesn’t seem to care for them and lingering questions remain regarding how much safety they actually promote.

I’m often reminded by the decades-long battle the United Kingdom had with speed cameras that I only became aware of whenever Top Gear would have politicians on during the mid-2000s. At the time, the show was routinely butting heads with the likes of Boris Johnson over the politics of restrictive driving laws and doing reports about how speed cameras didn’t seem to be saving any lives.

The UK’s long-term battle with the devices also resulted in a plethora of useful data, most of which supports the idea that they make cities a lot of money. Much of this was complicated by a conflict between existing British and European Union laws, resulting in years of legislation designed to close loopholes that might allow people to escape fines. In 2004, the Transport Research Laboratory published a report claiming cameras increased the risk of serious accidents by 55 percent in work zones and 31 percent on open motorways. It also stated that its research indicated that fatal and life-threatening incidents were 32 percent more likely wherever traffic cameras were located.

But government agencies had assessed that the devices were effective in tamping down speeds, which are often cited as a contributing factor in serious accidents, and remained well aware that they were making money. By 2007, motorists had begun launching petitions to ban speed cameras as the public perception of their efficacy soured. There was even a stint where citizens were routinely going around disabling or destroying the hardware in protest. Subsequent years showed an increased number of departments agreeing to shut down their systems in response. Despite the United Kingdom still having the fourth-largest number of traffic cams per square kilometer, it’s estimated that only about half of them are active.

While we cannot predict the future, one imagines that Chicago would be in for a similarly prolonged conflict if it decides to expand its own camera scheme. Mayor Lightfoot has discussed the possibility of extending the updated rules across the city or simply adding more Children’s Safety Zones. She also recently announced the creation of new “Equity Zones” designed to rebalance discrepancies between ethnicities after she declared racism a public health crisis earlier in the week. Critics have stated that it looks to be a clever ploy to free up $10 million for special projects and bemoaned her use of the term equity (rather than equality), while advocates have pointed out there there are indeed divergencies in the public health of Chicago. We’re just wondering whether or not she’ll want those zones to enact predatory speed camera settings or if they’ll be subject to the standard level of traffic restrictions.

Lightfoot hasn’t said yet. Though she did issue a response to the city’s updated camera laws:

“The change in the speeding threshold was implemented in response to an alarming increase in vehicle speeding and traffic fatalities. This change affects the City’s 68 Automated Speed Enforcement (ASE) Children’s Safety Zones, which are operational near schools when they are in session and children are present, and in parks during hours when they are open.

Forty-three more people died in traffic crashes in Chicago in 2020, a 45 percent increase over 2019. These deaths have occurred at a time when fewer cars were on the road due to the pandemic and City traffic data showed cars were driving 8-10 percent faster on average than at the same time in the previous year.

The goal is not to issue tickets, but to encourage safer driving behavior and discourage speeding that is correlated with more severe injuries and deaths in traffic crashes. In order to avoid a speeding violation, drivers simply have to observe the speed limit.

Even incremental reductions in speed greatly increase the likelihood of avoiding death or serious injury in the event of a crash. According to federal traffic safety data, chances of a pedestrian surviving being struck by a car are 90 percent if hit by a car traveling 20 MPH, 50 percent chance of surviving if hit by a car driving 30 MPH and only a 10 percent chance of surviving being struck by a car driving 40 MPH.”

We’ve covered alternative solutions to maximizing pedestrian safety in the past and, even though speeding does increase the risk of fatally injuring someone, there are plenty of other issues to consider. It’s usually just safer to keep those walking (or on bicycles) a healthy distance away from automobiles. Other solutions include improving pedestrian detection equipment on modern vehicles, limiting the number of distractions, discouraging jaywalking, and making sure you’re not hitting people with 2-ton SUVs with blunt faces. But let’s not kid ourselves, Mayor Lightfoot’s plan was always about the money and it seems like everyone has already figured that out.

Ed. note: As a Chicago resident who has long been outraged about the speed camera on Irving Park between Clark and Sheridan — one that is barely within the required distance of a park, a dog park that’s far off the street — I would like to add that I really, really hope the mayor’s office rethinks any expansion. The cameras are not, in my opinion, in any way used to increase safety. The unofficial city motto is “where’s mine?” and the cameras seem to be a complete money grab. I’ll save the rest of my thoughts for a potential future opinion/editorial post.

[Image: ChicagoPhotographer/Shutterstock]

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

117 Comments on “Driving Dystopia: Speed Camera Rule Change Creates Ticketing Explosion in Chicago...”


  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Chicago has not had a Republican mayor since 1931; (Pittsburgh – my nearest city – since 1934).

    Deficits, high taxes, and money grabs are the name of the game. They just need to double down to make things better. The other party would just ruin things.

    • 0 avatar
      thornmark

      Detroit was the richest major city in the US when the last GOP mayor left @1962/1963

      it is now about the poorest – but a great vote bank for the Dem party

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      The other party is not going to get a foothold in cities as long as its captive media keeps screeching night after night about how cities are terrible and the people who live in them are subhuman. If Republicans want a foothold in cities again, they need to start with some basic respect.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        ^This repairing whats wrong with are cities needs to be bipartisan. Pointing fingers as to who’s to blame won’t fix the problems

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          @Lie2me:

          Only one party wants to fix the cities.

          The Dems lifeblood is the cycle of dependency between themselves in government and their constituents. I thought that was outlawed around 1865, but this form of slavery has remained legal thanks to big government.

          Fixing the cities would break the cycle of dependency.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Republicans tell us straightforwardly and often that they don’t want to “fix” the cities (whatever that means), they want to tear them down and disappear many of the people in them.

            You’re also a bit out of date if you think most of the cities need much “fixing.” The economically hottest places in the United States are all cities or inner-ring suburbs: Seattle, Austin, Phoenix, DC. Both big California metros would be on that list if they hadn’t made it essentially illegal to build any housing to accommodate population growth.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @SCE:

            Nonsense. Plenty of poor folks vote Republican. Plenty of rich folks vote Democratic.

            But if we’re talking about “dependency, I’d say wealthy folks certainly depend on Republicans to keep their taxes lower. People of all walks of life vote with their pocketbooks, you know.

          • 0 avatar

            And who fixed New York City? Hint: it were not democrats. Democrats only know how to ruin cities.

      • 0 avatar
        chris724

        “how cities are terrible and the people who live in them are subhuman.”

        What about all the video evidence showing this to be true? I don’t want people jumping on top of my car.

        • 0 avatar

          “I don’t want people jumping on top of my car.”

          How dare you! It is an expression of freedom of speech, it is their right to do that. Everyone has basic rights under the U.S. Constitution and civil rights laws to destroy you property if they do not like you.

          • 0 avatar
            JD-Shifty

            Leave January 6 out of this

          • 0 avatar

            The Fisrt Russian Revolution was actually January 22 not January 6 1905. That’s how it started:

            “Controversial Orthodox priest Georgy Gapon, who headed a police-sponsored workers’ association, led a huge workers’ procession to the Winter Palace to deliver a petition to the Tsar on Sunday, 22 January [O.S. 9 January] 1905. The troops guarding the Palace were ordered to tell the demonstrators not to pass a certain point, according to Sergei Witte, and at some point, troops opened fire on the demonstrators, causing between 200 (according to Witte) and 1,000 deaths. The event became known as Bloody Sunday, and is considered by many scholars as the start of the active phase of the revolution.”

            Does it reminds you something?

    • 0 avatar
      Tim Healey

      As a mostly (took a brief detour to Michigan 20 years ago) lifelong Illinois/Chicago/Chicago-area resident, I can attest that the other party is, or at least has been, quite corrupt. It’s one of the few bipartisan things in this state — “let’s get ours.”

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        Mayor Daily (the first one) kept the city working while practically writing the book on modern political corruption

      • 0 avatar
        dukeisduke

        Agreed. Illinois governors from both parties seem to end up in prison. Chicago and Crook County have been infested with corruption for decades.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Yep, the Illinois governor’s mansion is a cesspool, which makes you wonder why the f**k Trump would give the most comically corrupt one ever – Blagojevic – a get out jail early card. The guy got caught on tape selling a U.S. senate seat for cash dollars, and gets let off early? Yeah, that’ll show those corrupt Illinois pols they can’t get away with taking bribes! MAGA!

          I guess he admired Blago’s criminal talents.

          • 0 avatar
            markf

            You need to focus you life on something other than Trump. He isn’t President, let it go.

          • 0 avatar
            JD-Shifty

            MarkF, half of the GOP still think Trump IS President. Trump is still in charge of your party. wake the F up.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Awww, poor markf…can’t handle someone making a perfectly valid criticism of the former president.

          • 0 avatar
            markf

            Nope, Trump is gone let it go. Wipe the spittle from you lips and move on. Focus your thoughts on something else.

            And yes it was dumb to let him and the crook Mayor from Detroit. Both should still be rotting in prison.

  • avatar
    ajla

    I haven’t been to Chicago since 2012 so I can’t speak to the direct situation, but electing a different mayor seems like the best option.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    Lori L is one crazy idiot. What can I say about her electorate…

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Lori “Let’em Riot” Lightfoot. She’s training for the Political Corruption Olympics.

      Instead of calling them “Children’s Safety Zones” why not call them “Politicians on the Take Zones.”

      Doncha just love how they manage to inject race into everything these days? Who cares whether it makes the slightest bit of sense? It’s just plain fashionable.

    • 0 avatar

      Idiots elect idiots and deserve what they get and not only in American cities. I would call it the Ukrainization of America.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        You’re so right. There is a lot of resemblance between Ukraine and US. And this is understandable why. Capitals rule both countries, where money win elections. Media in US and in Ukraine are activists in reality. Very similar.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    Follow the #$*ing speed limit and you won’t have a problem (and the city won’t make any money either).

    The problem here is that we’ve normalized sociopathic driving in cities—you know, those places where there are lots of people outside of cars on the street—to the point where people think it is their God-given right to break the speed limit by 6, 11, or more mph without any consequences, even though that makes any crash involving someone outside a car far more likely to be fatal.

    Speed on the freeway where there aren’t pedestrians around.

    Edit: I should add that if cameras really were issuing tickets for breaking a school zone limit when the school zone wasn’t active, that’s a problem. But I have a feeling that’s really not what the complaints are about.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      You’re not wrong.

      But in defense of the 6 mph offenders, such a breach is easy to do momentarily if you’re passing by someone, for instance.

      The jump in tickets is telling – a real cop probably wouldn’t stop people in the +6 mph realm.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      @dal:

      Here’s the problem with red light cameras: they don’t really punish the wrongdoers. Here in Colorado, red light camera violations don’t hit your driving record, so if you have enough money, you can just run the things at will and pay the check…until you end up t-boning a van full of senior citizens on their way to bingo. In fact, a lot of folks just don’t pay the tickets, and as I understand it, the government doesn’t have much authority to make you pay up.

      That just makes these things a pure money grab.

      I’d be behind red light cameras if violations carried real consequences to your driving privilege. But as I understand it, there are constitutional reasons why the state can’t impose criminal penalties for this kind of thing – has something to do with witnesses needing to be alive and available to come to court, that sort of thing. But again, that’s from what I recall…let me know if I’m wrong.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        Some people will just ignore the tickets, although here in Washington we’re looking at a change in state law that would allow the state to withhold registration from cars involved in a pattern of incidents.

        But the research shows consistently that the fact of being caught for an offense is far more important as a deterrent than the severity of the punishment. I’m honestly fine with the fine being $25… as long as if you don’t pay it you’re subject to endless annoying phone calls and letters.

    • 0 avatar
      punkairwaves

      What this country needs is some law and order. Bring back broken windows policing. But nabbing me for going 6 mph over the speed limit is a grave threat to liberty.

    • 0 avatar
      brn

      I’ve two issues with red light cameras.

      1. They remove officer discretion. You ran that red light to keep from being side swiped? Too bad. You get a ticket, but the guy that nearly killed you gets off.

      2. They punish the owner of the vehicle, rather than the driver. Some states have deemed this unconstitutional. I agree. I shouldn’t be held responsible for your actions just because I loaned you the tool (unless I have good reason to believe you’re going to use the tool to commit a crime).

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        (1) Since there are no permanent consequences from a red light ticket, I’ll pony up the few bucks if I really chose to run the red for a reason that’s satisfying to me (like avoiding a crash).

        (2) The larger context here is an epidemic of irresponsible driving that is so big that it is the leading cause of death for healthy young people.. We need vastly more responsibility around cars and driving. Maybe owner responsibility should be part of that. It’s certainly not unconstitutional unless the penalty is a criminal one. Owners of property are held civilly liable for how that property is used in countless other legal contexts.

  • avatar
    RHD

    A well-aimed squirt from a can of bedliner spray could put one of these unarmed bandits out of commission for a while.

    • 0 avatar
      namesakeone

      How far does a can of bedliner spray squirt accurately? From what I see, most of those cameras are mounted at least twenty or thirty feet above street level.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    Chicago and it’s suburbs have been screwing people for some time on these cameras. I’ve been caught myself, as a result I just avoid Cook County at all costs. Chicago/Illinois has some serious problems, but screwing people who come into the city to work or shop is not the answer. Do better

  • avatar
    dukeisduke

    This is plainly about raising revenue, which Chicago never seems to have enough of. I’m just glad we in Texas got rid of red light cameras (a state law enacted in 2019 outlawed them), and speed cameras never caught on here.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Protecting your God-given right to cause fatal T-bone crashes! God bless Texas.

      • 0 avatar
        dukeisduke

        The number of accidents didn’t decline when the cameras were in use, and anyway, the fines were civil ($75) and not criminal, so getting caught by s a camera wasn’t the same as getting caught by a real cop.

        It was just a racket run by the cities and the camera operators, and the camera operators made out like bandits.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          The number of accidents didn’t decline, but the severity sure did. A rear-end tap is far preferable to a full-speed T-bone, or, god forbid, a pedestrian in a crosswalk getting obliterated.

          I don’t want the offense to be criminal. I just want people caught every time so they actually stop at the damn lights. People these days think they’re optional.

          • 0 avatar
            NigelShiftright

            A red light camera that’s intended to increase safety will have a decently long yellow interval, in the same way that a reduced speed limit stretch -for safety- will have big, clear signage in advance of the boundary.

            But a red light camera where the yellow light is on for a matter of milliseconds is like a reduced speed limit where the signage is peeking out from a tree four feet from where the limit drops. In those famous words of Admiral Ackbar, “IT’S A TRAP!”

        • 0 avatar
          markf

          In most states the ticket isn’t is not valid unless issued by a sworn peace officer. When I lived in Arizona a while back people figured this out real quick and started ignoring tickets. The state could not keep up, not enough cops to review the tickets and not enough people to serve the alleged violators.

          The state then started losing a lot of money because they still have to pay the scam contractors and eventually uninstalled all cameras. Some cities still have them but the state just gave up.

          I think the same thing is happening here in Colorado.

          “Under Colorado law, Ramirez said those who chose not to pay the fine sent in the mail for a red light camera or speed radar van violation have to be served by the city within 90 days or the ticket is invalid.”

          They want the $$, if you pay it right away you get no points. All about money…

          https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/360/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-red-light-cameras-and-your-rights

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I would have thought the tax attorney and no doubt accounting expert would be against looting and graft.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          If there’s dishonesty, I’m against it. If it’s honest enforcement of rules everyone has decided they’re too important to obey, I think it’s great.

          Look, I live in a city, and I walk on the streets every day. Dangerous drivers cause me more fear for both myself and my kids, by a wide margin, than literally everything else that ever causes me fear, combined. Driving dangerously isn’t some kind of civil right and I’m ready for it to be enforced against with all the might the state can muster. Don’t want to be subject to that? Just drive safely, as if you were aware that you are the one using an enormously powerful engine to propel 2 tons of metal through a public place.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            When I was in high school there were two different boroughs who VASCAR’d people I knew for 26mph in a 25mph. There is no sidewalk on that part of the road, there are no pedestrians, this was simply the pigs screwing with us and as an adult now I understand the motive was also financial because police depts lose money on traffic enforcement and high school kids in a rich area driving home are easy pickings. In the overall defense of the police, quite a few of the people I knew blasted obnoxiously loud music and generally made a ruckus outside of driving home so p!ssing them and the other NIMBY type adults off wasn’t the brightest thing to do, but that doesn’t justify selective prosecution.

            This camera thing is no different, in fact what is scary about some of the districts is its a private company partnering with government the latter of which receives a less than 50% cut (shades of Mussolini’s Corporatism in this behavior). I find the practice reprehensible, why don’t the munis just start issuing bounties? Call in or get us proof of a suspected DUI (or any crime) and on conviction you’ll get 50% of the fine! This is not the place of government.

            Now to your point, if a driver is coming down your 25mph street doing 50 not only would I support a ticket I say mandatory minimum jail sentence – not for the speed infraction but for the combination of speed infraction and location (I don’t think even the most ardent libertarian wants to live in a society of chaos). I’m not sure what the statutes are on this or if such a thing is constitutional but safety is tantamount to me personally with the caveat things like a 26 in 25 does not qualify as a safety issue. I don’t know what the settings on those cameras are but I suspect they are not in that vein since they are designed for graft.

            I’ll also add as a parent you are likely feeling a different level of anxiety over these things as someone who is not. This is not to suggest public safety is more trivial for say a person like myself, merely to point out you may have a slight bias on this overall subject.

            There is a borough near me which places large speed bumps in the most inordinate places and which I hate driving through with the heat of a thousand suns. None of the other boroughs do this, I suspect they do it because they have a ridiculous amount of money and modern Karen’s mother was vocal in the 80s or 90s. Perhaps your neighborhood would benefit from such a thing?

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            The whole point of cameras is that they avoid selective enforcement. In high school, I commuted through Medina, WA, which is the suburb where both Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos live, and which is notorious for pulling over any crappy car for 1 mph over. I’m not in favor of that. I’m in favor of something that is automatic, consistent, and unbiased.

            26 in a 25 probably doesn’t have much effect on the probability of pedestrian death, but 31 in a 25 certainly does. Recall that (1) if a pedestrian is hit, every 5 mph between 20 and 40 results in a 20% higher probability of death, and (2) stopping distances increase with the square of speed, so there is over 50% higher probability of someone getting hit in the first place at 30 than 25. Those two things combine to make 30 mph traffic almost twice as deadly for pedestrians as 25 mph traffic. I think that at city speeds 6 over is an entirely fair threshold for enforcement.

            Separately, I do happen to live along a street that has an extreme speeding problem, because it is the main way to and from a lakefront park that has quite the party scene. On summer weekends, we get several cars a night coming up the street at 70+ (speed limit 25). For them, I don’t want meek camera enforcement; I want cops that will impound their cars and let them spend a night in jail for their trouble.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Good points, I was not aware of cited facts #1 and #2. I think I told you the story of the attorney at then Preston Gates and Ellis who developed an entire speeding ticket defense document package because of one of the Gates’ children, didn’t I? One of the kids had a need for speed in the mid 1980s but he never told me which one.

            You’re far too kind with just a night at the grey bar motel. I don’t live on or even know where your street is but I want to go medieval on those doing 70 in a posted 25 mph neighborhood. There is *no* excuse for such egregious and dangerous behavior even if your last name is Gates or Bezos. I hope law enforcement is responding to this problem, there is no grey area in such a scenario.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I appreciate your support on the issue of our drag-racing morons.

            The problem is partly the city’s fault, because the street has much wider lanes than it needs to and is arrow-straight for a bit over 1/4 mile. If I were dictator of Seattle I’d install a parking-protected bike lane on the uphill side, not so much for the cyclists, but because it would narrow both car lanes to 10′ and make the street feel more like a city street and less like a drag strip. I’d also probably install a stop sign at a crossing about a block from me where a heavily used pedestrian trail crosses the street.

          • 0 avatar
            RHD

            By the way, speed bumps can be eliminated by the careful application of a small amount of diesel.
            So be careful with diesel around speed bumps. Melting speed bumps with diesel would be wrong, so be sure not to do that.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @Dal

            I can’t quite envision it but I would think cyclist lanes would be equally dangerous because cyclists could become an obstacles for the irresponsible dipsh!ts already clocking in at 70mph. As much as I don’t like jersey barriers, they would probably fit the bill and adding a stop sign or light seems like an adroit solution (low brow PennDOT contractors have trouble with positioning them consistently so your narrow one lane juts in and out a little which really bothers me at higher speed ).

            I’m sure in your professional work you’ve made contact with people at this municipality, maybe they’d be open to jersey barriers on this road at least to start?

            @RHD

            …Interesting. I’ll just have to be careful then…

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            A parking-protected bike lane moves the curb parking a few feet away from the curb (usually 7′ or 8′), and then puts a buffer and a bike lane in between the parked cars and the curb. We have a fair number of them in Seattle now, just not in front of my house. The row of parked cars a pretty effective form of protection for the cyclists once the drivers learn to park in the right place. And it narrows the car lanes, which makes it a whole lot less likely that some dipsh!t will try to go 70 mph.

            We are relatively low priority at the city because this is a wealthy area that is not on the way to a school. The city’s street safety improvement budget is quite limited and the places that get the attention are (1) near schools and (2) poor areas that tend to have the worst safety problems and the most deadly collisions. So it’ll probably be a while before much happens here.

            Edit: here’s a good example of a parking-protected bike lane (right side of the street): goo.gl/maps/NHbMj354j5zhbNDc8

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Thanks for the visual, I don’t know if I have ever seen something like that before but it makes sense.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            On a different topic, I just looked at BAT for Legends for the first time in a while… hoooooly crap.

            Every last one is in five figures and some fool paid **$32K** for a good but imperfect GS manual.

            I wonder what I could get for my high-mileage, but very nice-looking, L automatic. I had been assuming it was worth around $5K but maybe not. If someone offered me $12K for it I think I’d sell tomorrow.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Was that GS a sedan or coupe? I could see a clean manual coupe commanding some cash… not that much but I understand the [sort of] logic.

            I’m not in touch with the market on that sort of thing, but niche oddball stuff has nearly always been pricey (example of it not being pricey would be a Daewoo Lanos).

            This one started the bid at 4K, may be lower miles but I imagine its similar to yours:

            https://www.ebay.com/itm/284337178647

            The condition of the leather and armrest slightly concern me there, a babied one owner should be cleaner IMO (unless there was something up with the leather Acura used that I’m forgetting or was not aware of).

            This extra clean one won’t show the driver’s seat so it leads me to believe there may have been something up with the material Acura used:

            https://www.ebay.com/itm/265193273723

            So seller has 13 on the second one, probably in the $10K valuation region for near museum piece under 30K otc. But the floor is high on everything it seems so 5-7 in the Pacific Northwest is probably not out of the realm of possibility on yours assuming decent condition. 12 I’d run with in a heartbeat in your shoes.

            JDM Honda Legend coupe Gen I, pity its an automatic:

            https://www.ebay.com/itm/373595869529

            Lovely Gen II Legend coupe, a little high given the miles but I’d say still around 7,5-8,5 would be reasonable. Years back this would have still done 5-6+ because the Gen II was more desirable. Its in Scottdale and since I was just in the area recently I know the dealers are putting a kachillion on everything because there are car shortages and a lot of people moving to Maricopa County.

            https://www.ebay.com/itm/324674054349

            This guy has a nice Gen I coupe/manual but way high miles, he must have hit a doobie before pricing it. Cali car means Cali emissions when new, not sure how different those were at the time vs the 49 state version.

            https://www.ebay.com/itm/144056879868

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I suspect a bit more than you wanted to spend but an E46 manual/convertible… that’s also an M3:

            https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/d/allison-park-bmw-m3-speed-manual/7337565695.html

            I know the area up there very well… mostly old money and Exoticars used to be a mile or two down Rt 8 (or maybe it was someone else, they were Porsche and BMW specialists. I bought some tools at the place’s closing auction in the early 10s).

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Conclusion: BAT’s a special place.

            Those eBay listings make me think my original estimate was accurate. My car looks considerably nicer than that white LS and almost certainly has more mechanical updates (timely timing belt/water pump, new EGR which is a big deal on these cars, all-new motor/transmission mounts, strut mounts, and struts, new wheel bearings, newer brakes, new rear control arms, new valve cover gaskets, new coolant hoses throughout, new radiator, and OEM GS wheels with date code 2020 Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires).

          • 0 avatar
            Dartdude

            I remember back in the day. We let nature cull out the stupid. When we were young our parents said don’t run in to the street or you’ll get run over. The stupid kids didn’t listen and were roadkill, but the kids with a working brain learned by the stupid kid mistake. Then the cities passed laws to help out the stupid. The stupid grew up and reproduced and created new super stupid people and that is how we got todays Democrats.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      God blessed Texas

  • avatar
    stuki

    In civilized countries, the state needs to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, to a jury of peers, that your specific conduct, in your specific situation, was either causing someone harm, or at a very minimum greatly increased the risk of harm to someone. And if, after going through the hassle, that jury of your peers do find that your conduct passed such a rather high treshold, they throw you in jail.

    Of course, civilized and America hasn’t had much overlap over the past century. And it’s only gotten worse. Until nowadays, any entirely arbitrary shakedown and robbing of people, for any childbrained, trumped up excuse, is A-OK, as long as enough well indoctrinated halfwits can be told to jump and down cheering for the totalitarian rabble promising to use even less lube on their neighbor than on their pathetic, useless selves.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      America gone total Stalinist.

      “If You See Something, Say Something”

      — DHS

      Or as I call them – NKVD

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Just let Lavrentiy know.

        Around where I live I’ve seen those changeable signs over the interstate saying, “Report Suspicious Behavior.” Gives you a nice warm feeling, doesn’t it?

    • 0 avatar
      IH_Fever

      The USA has gone completely backwards. If you do something truly harmful like rob, steal, or kill, there’s a list of excuses a mile long as to why you don’t deserve punishment. Call someone a mean name or drive too fast though, well that’s a heinous offense we can make money on, so throw the book at them…Madness…

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        A *lot* more people die because people drive too fast than because they rob. That’s not to defend robbery, but your view of relative danger may be skewed.

        • 0 avatar
          stuki

          Which still does not, in any way, justify de facto convicting someone, without the protections of an indictment, a trial, 12 peers and conviction based on actual, case by case (not pseudo-“statistical”) demonstration beyond reasonable doubt of guilt.

          It may sound like a big, old hassle over a “speeding ticket”, but that hassle is a specific, and hugely important, feature, not a bug, in any society aspiring to be either free and/or civilized. Anything less is simply arbitrary shakedown and highway robbery, simply for the sake of it.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            This is not a criminal conviction. It’s a civil penalty. They are not the same thing.

            I believe it would be impossible to keep roads safe to even a minimum level if the only way to enforce motor vehicle safety laws were through a full criminal process. It would simply be too expensive to enforce, so road laws would never be enforced. You think our current 40,000 deaths annually is a lot, just imagine if there were no road enforcement whatsoever.

          • 0 avatar
            stuki

            “This is not a criminal conviction. It’s a civil penalty.”

            Everything is these days. That’s how totalitarians and hangers-on halfwits get around all and every protection against completely arbitrary harassment these days.

            Civil courts, in civilized societies, deal with contract disputes. Not blame assignment.

            Murder and kidnapping is still, at least sometimes, treated, properly, as criminal matters (unless, of course, OJ is rich and famous enough to get ambulance chasing trash TeeeVee time. Then arbitrary harassment via kangaroo “civil” courts are fair game there as well…). Yet we have far fewer than 40K/y of those. It ain’t that hard.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            To prosecute every murderer, you have to, well, prosecute every murderer. That’s about 15k-20k per year.

            To cut down on sh!t driving enough to significantly reduce driver-caused deaths, you would need to enforce traffic laws much more consistently than we see today. That would involve giving many millions of tickets. Do you really want to spend enough to set up a court system with the capacity to bring every one to a full criminal trial? Do you really want to spend half your time serving as a juror, for that matter?

            Cars and driving changed the justice equation. It is so easy to drive antisocially and dangerously that people began to find it acceptable. We know from psychological research how to change that: penalties that are small but very consistently enforced. That is the antithesis of the criminal justice process the Founders, who had never seen a car, had in mind. But we need to adapt to it.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Blame it on the Democrats, eh?

    Here in Denver, the second bigger purveyor of these stupid money-grab machines is the city of Aurora. The mayor of Aurora is a Republican, Mike Coffman.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Coffman

    I can find other examples, I’m sure. Point is this: both parties like to soak taxpayers.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I’m on board with your truth bomb but the politics of the area seem to skew 50%+ to the other side based on the list of current elected officials, so a RINO isn’t too surprising in this case.

      I’ll also add if one peruses the top six employers for both public and private, only three are privately held companies not related to healthcare and four are fully government entities. Having worked in healthcare both for systems and private employers, the industry as a whole is close to government work in terms of day-to-day operations but there is enough of a profit driven component that there is a business aspect for some of it. So I’d rank it 50% gov’t/50% private industry in terms of what it is, therefore Aurora in terms of major employment is 1/3rd gov’t, just under 1/3rd private capitalism, and slightly over the third in the middle since its healthcare. So if we use employers as a metric, the electorate there would be slightly toward “government sectors” or approaching Center-Left in political terms – which is reflected in their voting habits.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora,_Colorado

    • 0 avatar
      markf

      “Here in Denver, the second bigger purveyor of these stupid money-grab machines is the city of Aurora. The mayor of Aurora is a Republican, Mike Coffman”

      So you are deflecting and pointing at Aurora, a separate city with it’s own Mayor. So one example of a small suburb shows its “both parties”

      Meanwhile Denver is filled with homeless camps but hey Aurora has speed cameras also!

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Homeless folks and red light cameras are EVERYWHERE in Colorado. Colorado Springs, which is about as conservative place as you’ll ever find, has both.

        https://coloradosprings.gov/redlightsafety

        I used to live in Parker, which is also about as conservative as it gets, and there was a whole homeless camp along Cherry Creek, right down the way from my old place.

  • avatar
    markf

    “^This repairing whats wrong with are cities needs to be bipartisan. Pointing fingers as to who’s to blame won’t fix the problems”

    Pointing fingers is never fixes anything IF the problem is with the Democrats. AND it requires a bipartisan solution, cause reasons.

    If these hellhole American cities were all run by Republicans Lefties like you wouldn’t be saying “Pointing fingers as to who’s to blame won’t fix the problems” Instead it’s Republicans fault because they point out what Dems have turned these cities in sh**holes.

    The gaslighting is so blatant.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      What cities are “sh!tholes?”

      I live in a city and it’s a pretty damn nice place. Abundant jobs, beautiful parks and views, and food and drink options that are in a different universe from Chili’s and Buffalo Wild Wings.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I drove through Sewickley the other day and save “abundant jobs” what you describe is pretty much what’s there. Very old properties/money, storied private schools, chic boutiques, pricey bistros, and there used to be a Rolls Royce dealer off of Beaver Street (its gone now though). These are not the kind of things you typically encounter in the Steel City, the closest comparison to the feel would be a cross of the designer shops in the Aria mall in Las Vegas and Louis Winthorpe’s house/lifestyle in “Trading Places”.

        Although I have never been to the Pacific Northwest, what you describe is the atypical higher end area in a large city. Most city neighborhoods fall short of where you live and the entry cost for newcomers is dramatically higher than other neighborhoods. How would you feel living in “The Jungle” area of Seattle around South Dearborn Street and South Lucile Street?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle_(Seattle)

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          The Jungle is actually pretty tame these days. There is a bike trail through it that I use from time to time, because it’s a convenient shortcut between the Sodo area and the eastern part of the city where I live. After a couple of shootings the city cleared it out, and all that are left are a few tents along the edges. The encampments are smaller now, scattered through a variety of places, some very visible, some not so visible. If we would just legalize building apartments in more than a few select places, we could bring down housing prices enough that many of those people could get out of their tents, but I won’t get on that soapbox.

          There is really nowhere in Seattle that is very dangerous anymore; it’s just too rich. Probably the most dangerous corner is the corner of Rainier and Othello, but it’s nothing like it was 20 or 30 years ago.

          I think the cities in the greater Rust Belt are probably the ones that have the heaviest challenges in the country, but there are also a lot of cities in Seattle’s situation, including some that used to be pretty depressed places. The long-term trend before COVID that is now starting to reassert itself again is that the fastest-appreciating real estate is urban real estate, mostly because of the proximity to jobs.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Where did the homeless and drug addicts go? Another city or state? I would hope some simply got clean and/or their lives together but realistically that’s not going to be most of them.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            They’re still around, just distributed more evenly around the city. Honestly the smaller encampments cause fewer problems.

  • avatar
    tomLU86

    This is an outrage. Just another signpost on the way to where the USA is going.

  • avatar
    Dan

    Since the cameras went up en masse here traffic enforcement by actual cop pretty well stopped entirely. The drugs and drunks and outstanding warrants and other real crimes that actual cops would find along the way stopped being found. The officers’ discretion to, at least most of the time, not chit on the good guys has been excised entirely.

    Instead we get long lines of people riding their brakes past the speed cameras, panic braking when the light turns yellow, and 75 dollar dings for rolling rights. Locals learned after the first couple of years. Visitors get absolutely sheared.

    It’s a bullchit money grab just like everything else the government does, so it gets the full support of the bullchit government fellator class. Think of the poor pedestrians you sociopath!

  • avatar
    ajla

    A lot of you guys need to switch to decaf.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    “…changing rules pertaining to traffic enforcement as part of Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s updated 2021 budget package”

    Silly me. I thought traffic enforcement was about safety…not revenue.

  • avatar
    Old_WRX

    Anymore I just try to keep within about 5 over. Screw ’em I don’t feel like supporting whatever they’re using the money for.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Remember when some guys packed all 3 highway lanes and drove 55? The whole highway was clogged.

      Meanwhile, in the real “car news”
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9692697/Battle-Beasts-Bidens-stretched-Cadillac-squares-Putins-Rolls-Royce-lookalike.html

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        I run into so many rudely impatient drivers that this 55 mph rolling road block sounds like a fun way to eff them up. My favorite trick for the really annoying tailgaters is to let my speed drift down very slowly so it doesn’t seem like I’m trying to mess with them, but it still frustrates the bejabbers out of them. I’m sure they think I’m just one of those people who isn’t paying much attention to driving. I doubt they ever realize I’m punishing the tailgating pieces of sh!t. But, I can tell it’s pushing their blood pressure up :-)

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Just last week I was coming home from a boat trip and 1 idiot was driving in Odyssey with high beam full time on. I put my car on cruise and I cruise. As soon as I switched into passing lane the Oddy person started to speed up. Ok, I went 100 to go ahead, found myself another car in the right lane that was going 75 and parked behind. The car that was driving behind me in the left was now getting leveled with me and right on his tail – the Oddy. This dude in the car got tired of the high beam in his rear and started to slow down by much. I’ve got to witness this battle for few miles because Oddy was now enraged.

        • 0 avatar
          NigelShiftright

          Agreed with your view on tailgaters IF you are driving in the right hand lane. If you are a “left lane speed limit monitor”, though, YOU are the problem.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            I agree about the left lane. I have this habit that I wish the rest of the people where I live had: left lane is for passing or turning left. That said, some people seem to think that going 70 passing someone who is going 65 is hogging THEIR left lane — I get over as soon as it is safe.

  • avatar

    This is all about creating violations.

    NYC had a 30 limit. They lowered it to 25.

    Shortly after, they expanded the camera program hugely….the reason for 25 was to trigger ths shutters at 35, which you can’t do with 30.

    There were a few feeder roads with 35/30…they too were lowered to 30/25, for the cams.

    A NY driver MAY hit 39 mph between lights….this is what the system is designed to tax. No one is bombing along NYC streets at 55 mph.

    NYC has Bike Nuts, Anti Car folks, and the Vision Zero people, who overlap with the other two. They hate cars and literally anything to hassle drivers is good. Congestion Pricing…high tolls….remove parking for bike lanes….punitive meters…..photo stoplights and speed cams….

    The next step for NYC is to lower the tolerance. Speeds occur on a bell curve. Rational speed limit setting is engineering, but politics and revenue give us a different result. If you move the enforcement line up the bell curve, as they say…#4…PROFIT.

    NYC is reaping huge money, and they don’t even suffer any PR hit…the VZ folks do the PR for them.

    Vision Zero, the anti-vaxx of traffic engineering.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      In New York of all places, with a majority of people on foot, the damn cars need to slow down.

      Again, here’s the chart of chance of death vs. speed in a pedestrian/car crash:

      ≤20 mph: ≤10%
      25 mph: 30%
      30 mph: 50%
      35 mph: 70%
      40 mph: 90%
      ≥45 mph: 99%

      If anything, De Blasio (who is a car obsessive) has prioritized cars beyond what they warrant in New York. Again, this isn’t the rest of America, where people on foot are a small minority—it’s the one city in the country where the people on foot are a majority. The reduction in speed limits isn’t to create violations, it’s to make collisions fewer and less deadly.

      • 0 avatar
        Matt Posky

        De Blasio literally told New Yorkers to stop buying cars in 2020, added more bike lanes, and gave up entire streets for COVID block parties. Public parking spots across they city were given away to dying restaurants for outdoor dining areas. Car ownership has only gotten more expensive, as has public transit, and both experiences have become substantially less enjoyable. Vision introduced new tolls and pedestrian fatalities are largely unimproved. The only thing that has helped offset any of this is the large number of people that are moving away. But you still have to contend with double parked moving trucks every weekend.

        I love and hate New York. But the mayor has only contributed to the latter aspect, especially when it comes to driving. However the city is noticeably worse in almost every regard. Anyone who believes differently either doesn’t live here or is wealthy enough to be protected for the realities of normal life.

  • avatar
    jalop1991

    New Rome, OH. That is all.

    http://www.newromesucks.com/main.html

  • avatar
    slavuta

    The car news of the week

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9692697/Battle-Beasts-Bidens-stretched-Cadillac-squares-Putins-Rolls-Royce-lookalike.html

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I guess the NAMI designed limousine is more with the times but if I was Vlad I would have ordered an updated ZIL. I read somewhere he has a personal net worth of something like $40 billion so despite ZILs being out of production for many years I would think he could make it happen.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        I’ve heard Putin’s worth was 20, 40, 60, 100, and even $120B. However, I never saw any documented evidence of this. Everyone who talked about it was unable to present any actual prove or even half-valid evidence.
        When Panama papers were announced, everybody thought, “NOW we get him”.. And so what? He wasn’t there, but Ukrainian president was! Did anyone cared?
        Sure, Putin is the president and Gazprom is mostly gov. owned. Sure, they have some arrangement there with his friends contracting for Gazprom and making well. Tell me, this is something we don’t see every day in America. Chaney/Halliburton, Granholm/Proterra, Biden/Naftogaz

        In the latest “corruption case” they discovered “another” “Putin’s palace”, ornamented in gold, etc. They even had wild protests in the streets. Soon-after, the truth came out. There was a building under construction, far from finished, and computer graphics was used to create all the gold. It was done by some Americans who rented Black Forest Studios in Germany to produce this fake. Americans are not well versed in Russian symbolics, so they placed Macedonia’s double-eagle on the gate instead of Russia’s as one of the fails.

        “Navalny shot and produced much of his video investigation about Putin at Black Forest Studios in the small town of Kirchzarten.

        One of the studio’s owners, Nina Gwyn Weiland, told the local “Stuttgarter Nachrichten” newspaper that she had no idea who had hired the space until Navalny showed up. The staff was sworn to secrecy, she said. Navalny and his team, of around 20 people, worked long hours, unwinding at the end of the day in the studio bar. Contacted by Reuters, the studio declined to comment further.”

        And Reuters have guts to call this “investigation”

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          The Panama Papers scandal was actually a pretty big deal but didn’t get the airtime in the US in part I believe because most of those implicated were not US citizens.

          The only notable living American I see is Tiger Woods (the late Bobby Fischer also named).

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_named_in_the_Panama_Papers

          My overall point is Putin could commission any transport he wanted, and if I was he I would have wanted a modern ZIL (maybe this limousine is supposed to be a reimagined ZIL?). Whatever you’re referring to is not related to my point.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            1. They probably don’t want to report on such things. American journalism is dead
            2. You said “Putin” and “worth” so.. Putin can do a lot but not any of it.
            3. ZIL is dead. Even their famous soccer team is dead. In fact, previous presidential limos in USSR/Russia were ZIL. This thing, I believe has Porsche engine. ZIL mostly made trucks and I drove 3 different ones. ZIL used to be ZIS where “S” was for “Stalin”. I had a ride in one of the ZIS cars, one of my school teachers had one.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            28-Cars-Later, Slavuta,

            This is a discussion of concerns about the potential long term effects of the CV19 mRNA vaccine. Speaking of the scandalous, I thought you might find this video interesting. This one is definitely not just a bunch of opinionated ignorant people creating idle “conspiracy theories.” The man on the left is the person who invented the mRNA vaccine.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            28, Salvuta,

            Check this out (see my comment below. Maybe this time it will include the URL… youtube.com/watch?v=Tb_7E12VDE4 Maybe if it’s in the middle it won’t disappear?!!

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Old_WRX,

            what long term effects? Vaccine is safe, take it!! :-)
            This was obvious long ago. The protein that is unhooks itself and becomes toxic, will be fought by your own body.

  • avatar
    Jeff_M

    If speed limits weren’t too low to begin with the camera issue would be moot. It’s almost as though traffic planners implement the “Great Aunt Bertha Algorithm” when setting speed limits, i.e., what speed would Great Aunt Bertha be most comfortable driving? The rest of us either die from boredom or deal with speeding tickets. I mean, who in the right mind can drive 25 mph anywhere? Or how about 15 mph school zones where there isn’t a child in sight? But, we’ve all been brainwashed into thinking “speed kills”. Speed doesn’t kill, unskilled/inattentive drivers kill.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    If you are driving down a neighborhood where there are children playing, pets, seniors walking, and cars parked on the street you should not go over 25 mph. My neighborhood has a posted 25 mph speed limit with many drivers ignoring the speed limit usually not by 10 mph but by 20 to 30 mph. I have had 1 brand new car parked in front of my house almost totaled and my contractors F-250 with a trailer attached hit by a crossover moving the truck over 20 feet and destroying a fairly new trailer. The crossover that hit him hit the parked truck so hard that it ended up flipping on its side. Should anyone be driving thru a heavily populated residential neighborhood at 40 to 55 mph?

    I agree that for the most part these speed cameras are less about safety and more about generating revenue but to say that there is never a reason to have a 25 mph speed limit is wrong. As for Chicago it is a corrupt city and has been ever since I can remember.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      The vehicles going fastest on my neighborhood’s 25 posted streets seem to always be pizza delivery and, believe it or not, school buses. I swear I’ve seen school buses going nearly 40.

      Oh, yes, when there was a house on fire down the street the cops come through, lights and siren, at must have been about 80.

  • avatar
    Dartdude

    Chicago could save money by making Lightweight pay for her security detail out of her salary!

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    “When Injustice becomes Law, protest become duty”…Destroy the damn things. Most use aluminum housings that are no match for a well-aimed firewood splitting maul…

  • avatar
    Vanillasludge

    I thought Republicans wanted law and order. Seems to me you could just keep your speed at the legal limit and have no problems.

    Maybe they like the cops best when they are hassling someone else.

  • avatar
    JD-Shifty

    As if the dumb rubes like Gohmert or Boebert are in any way superior to any Democrat. LOL

  • avatar
    namesakeone

    I was just wondering: On vehicles with bumper-mounted license plates (all full-sized pickups, among others), would a trailer hitch with some sort of mascot covering it render a traffic camera ineffective, at least for those states with rear-plates only? Just asking. Thanks.

  • avatar
    Mustangfast

    Just my $0.02 coming from Atlanta where there are few if any cameras to DC/MD where they’re plentiful I believe they invite more harm than good. In non camera cities you can follow the flow of traffic so typically everyone (except 1-2 nut jobs) is going relatively the same speed. Here you have a lot more absolutely insane people and more of us trying not to get automatic tickets which creates more speed disparity which is a better indicator of accident incidence and severity than absolute speed. I’ve been in more near misses this week than in my entire driving life in non camera areas. I’ve never seen the on-ramp used as a passing lane before this week. People who say “just go the speed limit” seem to have never been on what should be a 35 MPH street that’s actually listed at 25, or a highway listed at 45. People who will drive recklessly will do so regardless, cameras take away some ability for the rest of us to adapt.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      This analysis is probably right as far as car/car interactions go, but completely leaves out effects on non-car users, who are far more plentiful in DC than they are in Atlanta.

Read all comments

Recent Comments

  • dal20402: The “bench” in the Tahoe/Suburban has the same bucket seats as the bucket/console option, just...
  • SCE to AUX: +New Order
  • PrincipalDan: Ya know you can have enough fun on a front bench to more than make up for resale. Heck my wife and I...
  • dal20402: This city’s not old enough for really old money, but the oldest money in the city migrated sometime...
  • Inside Looking Out: “The stupidity of the Afghanistan pull out illustrates ” What you are talking about?...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Who We Are

  • Adam Tonge
  • Bozi Tatarevic
  • Corey Lewis
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber