By on April 24, 2020

fca

The domestic auto industry is revving its engines, ready to cautiously punch the accelerator, but something’s standing in its way. That something would be United Auto Workers President Rory Gamble, who on Thursday appealed to companies to put the green flag away and think of their employees instead.

Seeing automakers angling for a production restart in the first week of May, the UAW boss said it was too early to move ahead.

“At this point in time, the UAW does not believe the scientific data is conclusive that it is safe to have our members back in the workplace,” Gamble said in a statement. “We have not done enough testing to really understand the threat our members face.”

As the Detroit Three burn through dough as plants sit idle, a growing number have targeted early- to mid-May as the starting point of a restart, in some cases a phased one. The Detroit Three mainly held back from offering specifics, pending talks with the UAW. However, the trio looked to be moving in the same direction as their foreign competition, with Fiat Chrysler initially aiming for a May 4th return.

According to Reuters, General Motors began asking front-line managers to return to work next week in order to train on new safety protocols, with sources at Ford workers will be called in to prepare plants for production.

“We have not done enough testing to really understand the threat our members face. We want to make sure the scientific data is supportive and every possible health protocols and enhanced protections are in place before UAW members walk into the workplace,” Gamble stated.

“We are in support of [Michigan] Governor Whitmer extending the Stay at Home order. We strongly suggest to our companies in all sectors that an early May date is too soon and too risky to our members, their families and their communities.”

The concentration of Detroit Three facilities in the hard-hit state of Michigan, which has seen the death of several UAW workers spread between the three automakers, seems to have guided Gamble’s hand. Not that things will be business as usual when things do return.

“What we are doing is making sure the people who are going to lead in our plant facilities, and lead period, understand the protocols well enough,” GM’s global head of manufacturing, Gerald Johnson, told Reuters on Thursday. Johnson said returning workers will wear surgical masks and protective glasses, but added that any restart will be “limited and phased.”

The UAW’s statement forced the Detroit Three back a pace. Now, none of the three commit to any fixed return date.

“Ford and the UAW continue working closely on initiatives to keep our workforce safe when we restart our plants,” Ford spokesperson Kelli Felker told the Detroit Free Press. “We are continuing to assess public health conditions, government guidelines and supplier readiness to determine when the time is right to resume production.”

FCA fell in line, too, stating that it “will only restart operations with safe, secure and sanitized workplaces to protect all of our employees.”

North of the border, the situation is a little different. Jerry Dias, head of Canadian autoworkers union Unifor, said Thursday he’s “cautiously optimistic” that Detroit Three plants in that country can come online in early May.

“I’m going to have another call tomorrow with the heads of all of our locals at the auto plants to make sure things are still moving properly,” Dias told Automotive News Canada. “But as of now, we haven’t heard this big outcry saying, ‘Don’t do it, it’s too early.’ We haven’t heard any of that.”

Dias pointed to the differing impacts of the pandemic on both sides of the Detroit River. “The impact that we have had has been significant, but we haven’t had the types of deaths and realities that they’ve had to deal with, especially in Michigan,” he said.

While GM and Ford are, just like in the U.S., loathe to comment on a return date, FCA is said to reopen its Brampton and Windsor, ON assembly plants between May 4th and 18th.

[Image: Fiat Chrysler]

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95 Comments on “Back to Work in Early May? Not So Fast, Says UAW...”


  • avatar
    EBFlex

    And look who this hack outfit endorsed for president.

    You’d think the United Auto WORKERS union would be advocating to get their people back working. Guess that’s not important.

    The real question is who is paying the UAW off?

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Ensuring safe working conditions has always been a good use for the union.

      Of course they want to get back to work; they just don’t want to be stupid about it.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        Are they still getting paid? If so, and assuming they have consulted medical professionals and put some thought into doing it safely (seems like they have with the wristbands and stuff), I’d probably alter that should the union refuse to return. What would the union have them do further would be my question. Still don’t want to come back? Cool, see your local about pay and benefits.

        • 0 avatar
          Lorenzo

          There’s a pool of reduced pay for furloughed workers, so most/all of the UAW membership is still getting paid. That makes it easier for the union to promote worker safety for their membership.

          Chances are, the workers would rather be back at work for full pay, and the companies would like to get back in business, albeit gradually. The union knows that, and also knows a staged return while inventories are whittled down is also part of all the automakers’ plans.

          The UAW’s discussions with the automakers probably helps the companies with their plan to stage a gradual return to work, while helping the UAW repair its reputation with its membership. That’s a win-win, if they don’t become obstructive.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Statistically the majority of Americans support a cautious return to work and don’t want a premature resumption of activities. Unions aren’t just about better wages for workers, safety and work conditions has probably been a larger driver of union growth in the past.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @Lorenzo, How dare you use logic and reasoning in a posting.

            A primary concern for union workplaces are their health and safety programs. That has been demonstrated by many studies.

            The ‘new’ UAW leadership has to build credibility. This should help.

            Meanwhile in Ontario the home of Canada’s auto sector, the hardline conservative Premier is advocating for a slower return than is the leader of the CAW.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            That’s logical @lorenzo

          • 0 avatar
            Scott

            Part of the difference between the UAW position and Unifor’s maybe due to the fact that the UAW just got their contract, but here in Canada the contract is up in September. I am not a fan of Dias’ but it is probably good optics to be seen as being more willing to work with the companies than the UAW as a way of trying to get new work. I doubt it will actually change anything already plannned, but he has to try something. That said he is not listening very closely if he is not hearing the cry’s of it is too soon.

          • 0 avatar
            Scott

            Part of the difference between the UAW position and Unifor’s maybe due to the fact that the UAW just got their contract, but here in Canada the contract is up in September. I am not a fan of Dias’ but it is probably good optics to be seen as being more willing to work with the companies than the UAW as a way of trying to get new work. I doubt it will actually change anything already plannned, but he has to try something. That said he is not listening very closely if he is not hearing the cry’s of it is too soon.

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      Perhaps related. If you want Biden you want the shut down to go as long as possible. If Biden wins, you’ll see them try to get things back to normal real fast, and probably little talk of anything but how we flattened the curve thanks to Governors like MI’s.

      • 0 avatar
        Zipster

        ssuck:

        How is that bleach that you are now guzzling at the direction of your great guide?

        • 0 avatar
          Superdessucke

          Zipit – Oh yes, a new one. The media needed that after the story about Trump inducing the couple to inject fish tank cleaner failed to take root.

          • 0 avatar
            Zipster

            ssuck:

            The bleach/UV treatment came straight from the psychopath’s mouth. You can watch it, if you haven’t already. From the vile forthings you are posting, it would appear that the bleach is already taking effect; at least you won’t get the virus

          • 0 avatar
            Superdessucke

            @Zipit: No it didn’t. Anyway, go back to your safe space if you don’t like the discussion.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Here it is, Master discussing the use of disinfectants injected into the body

            https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-discusses-disinfectants-fight-coronavirus-133621047.html

            Fake news? No, FAKE PRESIDENT

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            It was a weird exchange, but he said that agencies should be “testing that” and “to use medical doctors” to “check that”.

            You can certainly slam Trump for a lack of understanding about UV and disinfectants, but he did not tell people “go drink bleach” as a treatment or to do anything prophylactically.

            Here’s the clip:
            youtube.com/watch?v=zicGxU5MfwE

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            He didn’t say to “drink” bleach, he said to “inject disinfectants.” Does that make it better?

            Transcript:

            “He added: “I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.”

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “interesting to check that” does not mean “go do it if you want to be safe”. In the next sentence he also says “you’re gonna have to use medical doctors”.

            It was not a glorious moment and I don’t think Trump understood what the DHS’s message was (which IMO is a bigger problem than the rest of what he said), but I don’t see any gain in exaggerating his statements.

        • 0 avatar
          JEFFSHADOW

          Five words that used to be elaborate and efficiently used: Tremendous, Powerful, Unbelievable, Amazing and Strong. All excessively overused from the vile mouth of Orangutan45.
          So tired of hearing “Sleepy Joe”, “Crooked Hillary” etc. Those of you who get a paper check from the Treasury with Drumpf’s name on it, just countersign “Toxic Trump” and take the money.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “If you want Biden you want the shut down to go as long as possible.”

        That would be incorrect. Anything that suppresses voter turnout favours COVID-45. His supporters are less inclined to follow social distancing because they are more inclined to believe that it isn’t a big threat. Mind you, Darwinism (COVID-19 infecting the trumpian herd) could shift voter turnout in favour of Biden.

        • 0 avatar
          Superdessucke

          No, it would be correct. Those with TDS are giddy that this might finally be able to do what the Russia collusion hoax, Stormy Daniels and Michael Avenatti (who is no longer eligible to run for President like CNN was talking about a couple years ago), and the Ukrainian phone call were unable to do. So they would like it to go on as long as possible.

          Plus it’s good for the environment! Let’s not forget that.

          It’s interesting that the areas with the most authoritarian rule have the highest concentrations of cases isn’t it? That would be Democratic run cities, so in that respect you might have a point.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “It’s interesting that the areas with the most authoritarian rule have the highest concentrations of cases isn’t it?”

            leave it to you to not understand the difference between correlation and causation.

            https://xkcd.com/1138/

          • 0 avatar
            Superdessucke

            @ JimmyZ – Oh yeah? I’ll see your snide link and raise you a Brookings link!

            https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/04/10/who-lives-in-the-places-where-coronavirus-is-hitting-the-hardest/

            **If you are a good liberal you need to acknowledge this. The virus is discriminating against persons of color due to decades of disinvestment, lack of socialized medicine, etc.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            What your link fails to acknowledge is that dumb white people who don’t practice social distancing get the virus more then smart white people who do and dumb white people are traditionally Rep…

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “It’s interesting that the areas with the most authoritarian rule have the highest concentrations of cases isn’t it?”

            Very astute of you to recognize COVID-45’s authoritarian inclinations.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “What your link fails to acknowledge is that dumb white people who don’t practice social distancing get the virus more then smart white people who do and dumb white people are traditionally Rep…”

            What a sh*tty comment. Now the 50K+ people dead are somehow “more” made up of “dumb white people that were probably republicans”? This comes very, very close to “they deserved it”.

            Why don’t you guys take time off political bomb-throwing and read some of these:

            buzzfeednews.com/article/buzzfeednews/the-victims-of-covid-19

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            @ ajla, lighten-up Frances, I was being sarcastic and thought it was obvious. Geez

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            I did not recognize the sarcasm.
            I’m still not sure it was in good taste, but maybe I’m too wound up on things right now. I’ve been reading too much nonsarcastic “New yorkers deserve it” or “Red states deserve it” or “this group deserves it” over the past few days and it’s wearing me out. I’ll let the thread be and you guys can have at it.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “@ JimmyZ – Oh yeah? I’ll see your snide link”

            if all you got out of it was that it was “snide” then I’m sorry you didn’t understand what Munroe was saying.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @ajla – you are correct that “he” did not tell people to go drink bleach but he also did not directly tell people to ingest Hydroxychloroquine… but they have.

          Lysol had to issue a statement to say that their products were not to be ingested or injected.

          • 0 avatar
            Superdessucke

            @Lou BC – No, the Arizona couple whose plight the media jumped all over actually drank chloroquine phosphate…

            https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-chloroquine-self-medication-kills-man.html

            “I saw it sitting on the back shelf and thought, ‘Hey, isn’t that the stuff they’re talking about on TV?” she told NBC News on Monday (March 23).

            Hey, no it wasn’t, LOL! The FDA has cautioned that “chloroquine phosphate used to treat disease in aquarium fish” is different than “FDA-approved drugs used to treat malaria and certain other conditions in humans that are being studied as a COVID-19 treatment for humans.”

            I think we can blame Darwin more than Trump on that incident!

        • 0 avatar
          Superdessucke

          @Lie2us – Thanks. Though he doesn’t actually say to drink bleach…

          “And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning,” Trump said. “Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.”

          That’s what he said. I do not see bleach mentioned here, or a suggestion to otherwise drink household cleaners. Sounds like he was on his typical think out loud style to me and he came on something that sounded good. And he does say to “check that” not “drink that!”

          But, if that’s what you and zipit want to focus on during this serious crisis, I guess. And if you two do decide to take a couple swills, we’ll tell everyone it was because you misconstrued Trump and you will be a martyr of some posters here!

          • 0 avatar
            Superdessucke

            “He didn’t say to “drink” bleach, he said to “inject disinfectants.” Does that make it better?”

            No. He didn’t say to inject disinfectants either.

            “What your link fails to acknowledge is that dumb white people who don’t practice social distancing get the virus more then smart white people who do and dumb white people are traditionally Rep…”

            So you’re saying that smart white people get the virus less than minorities? Check your privilege, libby!

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “came on something that sounded good.”

            Injecting/ingesting disinfectants or getting light inside the body would sound good to an orange knuckle dragging mouth breather ….. oh….sorry…..stable genius.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            He suggested INJECTING DISINFECTANTS

            The manufacturers of Lysol were so concerned they issued the following statement…

            WASHINGTON — The manufacturer of Lysol, a disinfectant spray and cleaning product, issued a statement warning against any internal use after President Donald Trump suggested that people could get an “injection” of “the disinfectant that knocks (coronavirus) out in a minute.”

            “As a global leader in health and hygiene products, we must be clear that under no circumstance should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body (through injection, ingestion or any other route),” a spokesperson for Reckitt Benckiser, the United Kingdom-based owner of Lysol, said in a statement to NBC News.

            “As with all products, our disinfectant and hygiene products should only be used as intended and in line with usage guidelines. Please read the label and safety information,” the statement continued, adding that the company believes it has a “responsibility in providing consumers with access to accurate, up-to-date information as advised by leading public health experts.”

            You can twist it six ways to Sunday, but every normal person understood what he was saying

          • 0 avatar
            Superdessucke

            @Lie2us – No he didn’t. And because I did not resort to all caps like a child, mine is more convincing :-)

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Yes he did and the caps are because you’re having a real problem with the written English language today

            Did you learn that double-talk in the Sean Hannity stick it to the libs school of deflect and divert attention from anything incriminating?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            I wonder if “they” are still looking into nuking hurricanes?

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            Trump made that statement while standing at a podium presiding as the President and therefore the Head of State of the USA.

            He has made a number of other equally egregious statements in the same role.

            The Head of State is not supposed to engage in rambling, incoherent, stream of consciousness musings.

            Because when he is speaking in that role, he is speaking officially. That means that some people take what he is saying seriously.

            I am considered left of centre on this site. Yet despite that, and my patriarchal ancestry, I am a strong supporter of Canada’s Head of State, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

            Compare her public statements to those of the current POTUS. Like night and day. She works to unite, to calm, and not to disinform.

          • 0 avatar
            Superdessucke

            @Lie2us – You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. He didn’t say to inject or drink anything.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Oh, give it up, if he “didn’t say it” why has he been walking it back all day?

            You’re wrong and you should feel bad

            “President Donald Trump said Friday that his remarks on injecting disinfectants to treat COVID-19 were sarcasm, after doctors responded with horror and disinfectant manufacturers urged people not to ingest the poisonous substances.

            “I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters just like you, just to see what would happen,” Trump said on Friday during a bill signing for the coronavirus aid package. “I was asking a sarcastic and a very sarcastic question to the reporters in the room about disinfectant on the inside. But it does kill it and it would kill it on the hands, and it would make things much better.”

            But the president’s comments the day before — a lengthy musing that disinfectant or powerful light could be used to fight the virus — did not appear to be sarcasm; they were in part directed at a Homeland Security official.”

            https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-he-was-being-sarcastic-comments-about-injecting-disinfectants-n1191991

            Game over, you and your Master lose

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” — George Orwell, 1984

        • 0 avatar
          zach

          Wow, you sound like a great person to be around, when you guys hate you really lay it on.

          • 0 avatar
            Detroit-X

            Agree. Jim Z is a paid jerk by another website to comment here. There is no other way to explain this behavior.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            I wish I could get paid to comment on websites, but I don’t live in St. Petersburg.

            I am, however, happy that you’re graciously letting me live rent-free in your head :)

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Putin pays me a $100K a year to f*ck with Trumpers…

            Jealous?

            /s

    • 0 avatar
      Snooder

      Are you kidding me?

      How is that difficult to understand that members of the UAW would rather not DIE just to maintain profits for their employer.

      Is it possible to reduce the infection risk and still work? Sure. Does it make sense that the UAW would prefer to get that risk as low as possible so they don’t get more workers dying unnecessarily? Definitely.

      • 0 avatar
        Superdessucke

        I’m sure their motives are pure in this. My faith in the UAW is restored.

      • 0 avatar
        Superdessucke

        Anyway, to disinfect this topic and get back on point, what is the difference from a risk standpoint between making masks and ventilators and getting our economy going by building cars again? I’m not trying to be a wiseacre here, I’m just curious.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Superdessucke –

          A serious answer:
          No one actually knows how many people in the USA or any country has been exposed to the SARS-CoV-2 virus.
          That means we don’t know how bad an outbreak may occur once things open up.
          We do know that roughly 20% of the populace who develop COVID-19 will have symptoms requiring some sort of medical intervention.
          The health care system can’t handle 20% of the populace requiring health care all at once.
          We do know that social distancing is currently the only way to mitigate the rate of spread.

          If 20% of the populace are off work sick with roughly 5% dying, that would be worse than 30% unemployment but healthy and waiting to work.

          There are tough decisions that have to be made. Building cars again isn’t going to be much help if a large percentage of the population is sick or refusing to work because of fear of being sick.
          In British Columbia where I live, the experts feel that a return to 60% of “normal” life would mean a tolerable increase in cases. Anything more than that 60% means a return to massive spikes in new cases that would swamp the healthcare system.
          We just experienced a large spike in new cases due to an outbreak in a chicken processing plant where you can’t “social distance” and people ignoring social distancing over the Easter long weekend.
          There are no quick fixes. That is the message our leaders need to send out.

          • 0 avatar
            Superdessucke

            Well, I guess that’s a pretty good explanation. Again, I just wanted to understand. I still think we need to be doing whatever possible to get the economy running to the extent safely possible. Auto production, among other things obviously, creates jobs, and thus demand.

            Otherwise, the cure is going to end up being worse than the disease, with 30% unemployment, sucides, deaths due to stress and alcoholism, and so on.

            So I understand Trump’s desire to get the economy going again, which may lead him to make some not-well-thought-out statements (though some of the interpretations here are ridiculous and not productive). But I do think he’ll listen to the experts. We can only hope the end to this comes as soon as possible.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    The genuine AC Delco spark plugs I installed this week were manufactured in China.

    The genuine AC Delco coil I installed this week was produced in Mexico.

    https://www.gm.com/our-brands

    I would like to thank the fine decision-makers at General Motors for keeping American workers safe by sourcing these components from places other than the USA. Think of the children, we’re number one, et al.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      Well damn, thanks for pointing that out. AC Delco used to be an easy choice when buying parts, no sense in spending double for AC Delco anymore if the parts are made in the same country as the off brand.

    • 0 avatar

      We’ve all heard my rant, but the number of “Made in China” stickers on parts for my 2010 CTS is mind boggling. It may be assembled in Michigan, but really, why bother ? All the parts were from either China, or Eastern Europe, although a set of replacement end links were from, oddly, South Korea. The commodity parts in GM are the reason I’ll never buy one-three alternators, five (!?!) wheel bearings, and brakes that were perma-warped….

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        We paid more for a washing machine that featured a large American flag and an Assembled in the USA sticker.

        Unfortunately it has been a ‘lemon’. And yes the parts replaced have been made in China.

        There was a time, as late as the 1980’s when the Liberty Village area of Toronto instead of being condos consisted of many factories manufacturing appliances, televisions, etc. Originally they were constructed to build munitions in WWI and continued this during WWII including manufacturing the world’s supply of Bren guns.

        Manufacturing there mostly ended with NAFTA.

        Now it is a maze of high rise 600 sq ft condos selling for $500k.

  • avatar
    Zipster

    For some reason, I trust unions more than I do the billionaires who now dictate policy for this country.

    • 0 avatar
      tomLU86

      I trust the billionaires and the unions the same. Very little.

      There is no one who represents my views. Our next President won’t be a good Republican or Democrat, like Eisenhower of JFK

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        People like Zipster are in the binary camp. My side is right, yours is wrong. One day he’ll realize neither side is really looking out for you.

        Or maybe those union guys taking bribes from management and the management offering the bribes some how did it all for the members.

        Unions aren’t all evil Unions, but the modern UAW is a corrupt and self serving organization as evidenced by there last President:s current address at a penal institution.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          It’s just a process of selecting the lessor of two evils, but one evil is making the other evil look better and better every day, but a complete revamp on how our government operates is now way past due

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Art Vandelay – bravo. Well said. It isn’t a choice between one side or the other. It reminds me of the “If you don’t like it, leave” mantra of some people. A person still loves their country even when they believe that political parties or decisions of leaders are wrong.
            I don’t like the process of sifting through the lesser of two evils but unfortunately, that is often the only choice left. Not making a choice is still a choice.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            I used to be that guy, Lou, “what difference does it make who I vote for, they all suck”. I learned the hard way some suck way more then others, now I vote often and always

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Lie2me – I make a point of voting. I look at the platforms and the track records. I also look at what I expect. I prefer keeping politicians running a more centrist path. I prefer more conservative financial policies and more liberal social policies. Having one does not mean the other cannot occur. I’ve voted for conservative politicians/parties and I’ve voted for liberal and socialist leaning parties.

            I was socially/politically conservative due to my upbringing but social conservatism caused too much cognitive dissonance that I could not suppress without turning into an angry, hateful bigot. I shifted centrist over the years.
            Mind you, it does appear that a right leaning centrist in Canada would be a commie/socialist in the USA ;)

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            It’s amazing how much your political positioning can shift depending on context.

            I’m the same guy. But:

            In the U.S. as a whole, I’m far left.
            In the U.S. Democratic Party as a whole, I’m left of center.
            In the City of Seattle, I’m roughly centrist, maybe a bit left of center.
            In my City Council district, I’m slightly right of center.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Nope. There are better options in other parties. Never voting for the “Lesser of 2 Evils” again. Quit nominating evil otherwise piss off. Fortunately I have gotten to a place in life where the party or person in the White House has little to no impact on me for the most part so to quote Red from The Shawshank Redemption “So you go on and stamp your form, sonny, and stop wasting my time. Because to tell you the truth, I don’t give a $#!+”

            And frankly, watching the level of political discourse between both republicans and democrats, I have no desire to be a part of either side. Like I said, It is Bama-Auburn, but without the civility. You derive your meaning from that.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Nope. There are better options in other parties. Never voting for the “Lesser of 2 Evils” again. Quit nominating evil otherwise be gone. Fortunately I have gotten to a place in life where the party or person in the White House has little to no impact on me for the most part so to quote Red from The Shawshank Redemption “So you go on and stamp your form, sonny, and stop wasting my time. Because to tell you the truth, I don’t give a $#!+”

            And frankly, watching the level of political discourse between both republicans and democrats, I have no desire to be a part of either side. Like I said, It is Bama-Auburn, but without the civility. You derive your meaning from that.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “Like I said, It is Bama-Auburn, but without the civility. You derive your meaning from that.”

            It’s become terrible; massive amounts of dehumanizing from everyone. I truly believe many people want their political opponents dead or to immensely suffer. Like it is a mainstream view at this point.

            And it isn’t going to end just because Trump goes away. He’s a symptom not a cause.

          • 0 avatar
            zach

            “a complete ravamp…..” Not elections, by force, Mr sweet, fair liberal?

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          @Art: Agree. Who are the bigger criminals, the ones who offer the bribes or the ones who accept them?

          And what happened to the days when the USA had qualified people running for political office?

          Ike and JFK presided over the greatest period (unless perhaps you were African-American or subject to McCarthyism) in US history. And they worked hard to have bi-partisan acceptance.

          Unfortunately McCarthy’s primary legal counsel, Roy Cohn is one of the most unsavoury characters in modern American history. And served as an advisor to the current POTUS during his ‘formative’ years.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            well, my great grandparents put up with years of rationing and doing without for the good of the country and their fellow Americans.

            Today, their garbage Boomer grandchildren throw temper tantrums about not being able to go out on a boat, so they stand around whining while being fat and holding an AR-15. Oh, and waving a flag which represents the ultimate act of treason.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Nonsense. Boomers are in their 70s on the younger end. I’m gen X and most of those protesters look younger than me.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            nope. the youngest boomers are in their mid 50s. and they were the start of the “helicopter parent” thing when they had kids.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Most of them still look younger than me

    • 0 avatar
      zach

      “For some reason”.
      You don’t know though, you just like saying stuff.

  • avatar
    CaddyDaddy

    .. CaddyDaddy has never observed a UAW supported candidate tout or even more propose legislation to tariff foreign made auto parts. GM and the UAW are parasites on the parties they serve. GM primary goal is to make short term profit at the peril of premature major system failures in their products. The UAW feeds off it’s membership always blaming the evil rich republicans for their troubles. It has been rinse, wash, repeat for 40 years. Please see GM market share as evidence.

    CaddyDaddy predicts that UAW will hold automakers for increased pay and health benefits for continued work stoppage in the name of “health and safety”.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      Jimmy remembers when referring to oneself in the third person was funny for about 10 minutes in one Seinfeld episode.

    • 0 avatar
      honda1

      CaddyDaddy, You are 100% correct.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      “CaddyDaddy predicts that UAW will hold automakers for increased pay and health benefits for continued work stoppage in the name of “health and safety”.”

      The UAW has very fresh contracts with the Big 3. I doubt any attempts to tweak them higher will fly.

      It could go the opposite direction, though. The market downturn could force a plant closure or shift reduction due to sustained lower demand.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “3rd person speak”

      Is that a sign of bleach toxicity?

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      And for decades prior to that the Teamsters were strongly Republican.

      So how are we supposed to deduce anything from either fact?

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        The Republicans and Democrats switched sides a long time ago

      • 0 avatar
        Zipster

        Interesting point, Arthur. Nixon made a deal with the Teamsters, which partly involved granting clemency to Jimmy Hoffa, in return for their support. The Teamsters in that day bragged that they could bring the country to a standstill. They as well as UAW members who were notorious for their work attitudes at the time, gave unions a bad name and not doubt substantially contributed to the precipitous decline of unions.

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          It seems like political history is much like a pendulum, except that previously its swing was rather minor and generally near the centre. Over the past little while it has swung much wider to each arc.

          Hence Tea Party vs Bernie Bros. Both representing extreme views that would not have previously been accepted by either of the mainstream American parties.

          For every action, an equal reaction.

          I blame social media, and the decline of the American public education system.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Arthur you’re right about the pendulum, but it seems the further right one side went the further left the other side had to go to balance the pendulum. What ever happened to moderates who were the majority in the middle? I believe they’re still here, but silent because of the shrieking at both ends

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Moderates have now been put on the Endangered Species list. Anyone for another round of Lysol–it disinfects the insides.

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