By on November 11, 2016

volkswagen 1938

They say that Donald Trump is Literally Hitler. That he is the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler. That he believes all the things that Hitler believed. That his plan to restrict illegal immigration is literally equivalent to killing six million people. He says he can build a peaceful relationship with Russia instead of having an awesome progressive war over Syria. Guess what? HITLER ALSO BUILT A PEACEFUL RELATIONSHIP WITH RUSSIA. Before attacking Russia. It’s true. Look in an old racist history book and you can see that Hitler made peace with Russia in nineteen-something, right before he sent Messerschmitt Bf109s to attack peaceful villagers in Mexico, or Spain, or whatever.

Alright, so all of that might be a bit exaggerated, although if you’re one of the participation-trophy Millennials who is currently milling about a Starbucks in an attempt to overturn a democratic election, you probably don’t believe in that.

But what if it had been true? What if Donald J. Trump wasn’t just a businessman, hustler, and television personality who managed to elevate himself to the Presidency mostly on his own dime despite being stabbed in the back by everybody from CNN to Paul Ryan, but instead he was literally Hitler?

Well, if you’re a student of pre-war German history like I was as a child, you know that he would immediately insist on a few things: a revival of traditional culture, full employment, and … wait for it … a People’s Car.

What would that look like? What would the American Folks-Wagon be?

Let’s start with the price; that’s the easiest thing to figure out. German Wikipedia says the target price for the KdF-Wagen, the state-sponsored Beetle, was set at 990 Reichsmarks, which would be about 4,100 Euro today. That’s a tough calculation to accurately make, but let’s say that it’s in the neighborhood. The People’s Car was priced to compete with plain-Jane motorcycles. Today’s Honda CB500 series bikes retail for about six grand. Let’s say $7,999.

Who would build it? Hitler thought in terms of vertical integration; his concept was for the State to build the car, employ the people, control the price, and handle the marketing. But it’s worth noting that the United States beat Hitler in World War II partially by letting existing factories build designs that the government had approved; that’s why many “Colt” automatic pistols from the era were actually built by typewriter maker Remington Rand, and it’s why Ford built everything from Jeeps to bombers. So maybe the best thing to do would be to settle on a very strict design spec and let companies bid for the business of building it. The only caveat, of course, would be this: 100-percent American content, or as close to 100 percent as could be reasonably managed. It ain’t that tough, you know. Toyota almost does it with the Camry.

Engineering and design would be paid for by the United States Government. This would do more to lower the price than you realize. It’s common for a new platform to cost north of two billion (with a “B”) dollars nowadays. That’s a lot of money, but it’s a rounding error in government scale. We’re droppin’ seventy-five Bees on food stamps every year. Let’s not even talk about what the F-35 cost.

The production term of the American People’s Car would be set at 10 years. That’s long enough for tooling and fixed costs to be completely amortized in a manner that doesn’t cripple the balance sheet. And we’d start with an existing engine/transmission combination. It would be tempting to just eminent-domain an existing car design altogether — last-gen Nissan Versa/Dacia Logan, I’m looking at you — but that wouldn’t give a new generation of American engineers a chance to learn and grow. Remember that the People’s Car isn’t just a car; it’s a way to elevate people out of poverty.

That doesn’t mean that we can’t use the old Versa as a template in terms of footprint and features. The car should be the biggest box possible, made as cheaply as possible, with a full suite of safety features. It should be modular, so it could be easily switched to hybrid or electric power. And the entire technical plan of the car, from CAD files to production-line schematics, should be made freely available to the American public. In other words: open-source the mother.

We’re long past the era of “stamp books,” which is the way that people “financed” the KdF-Wagen. THE_CURRENT_YEAR is a place where people like their gratification now and their payback later. But there’s a problem: the average American doesn’t have the credit necessary to finance a $7,999 car. Not a problem. The government will finance anybody who is eligible for the Earned Income Credit by simply taking the credit back until the car’s paid off. Sign and drive. Alternately, we could just have people sign over their tax refunds to the government until their balance on the car is zero.

So that’s how we’d do it. A $7,999 car in every garage. But why would we do it? The answer is simple, and it’s the same answer that the real Hitler had for starting the program. When you put the working poor of a country into a reliable vehicle, they can get to work. They can get to child care. Their lives become significantly more predictable. Safer, too — wouldn’t you rather have America’s children in a new car instead of a ’96 Explorer? I think we could distribute a million cars a year to the poorest Americans. Think of the jobs it would create, too. If you want to get all (Bill) Clinton-esque about it, you could start by hiring people who are on public assistance now. Hire all the veterans who came back from Afghanistan with nightmares and scars only to find their hometown factories closed. Hire the disadvantaged people whose hopelessness has turned them to violence.

The biggest winners in all of this, besides the American people? Wait for it: the automakers. By and large, they despise being in the small car business. They do it for CAFE and to keep the government off their backs. Well, those days are gone, as my dearest love Este Haim would say. CAFE will be adjusted. Everybody’s free to go build upscale crap. The American people will be just fine without the Cruze and the Focus and the Elantra.

That’s the plan. Over to you, Mr. Trump. Here’s your chance to be literally Hitler. It’s good for America, it’s good for all of us — even the spoiled brats who are marching in the streets right now to protest an election. Let’s put them in cars, too. And tint the windows, so I don’t have to look at them, okay?

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284 Comments on “No Fixed Abode: Mr. Trump’s (Not So) Wild Ride...”


  • avatar
    Tosh

    Coke-fueled 13 year old Hummers all round.

    • 0 avatar
      FerrariLaFerrariFace

      That’s what Bill Clinton was hoping for.

    • 0 avatar
      racer-esq.

      I take a heads I win tails you lose attitude toward the Trump supporters. I supported the center-right, pro-trade, pro-markets candidate that would have shut up feminists with a female presidency and angered Muslims with continued pro-gay, pro-reproductive rights policies.

      But the fat orange clown won. And the next morning I woke up and realized that worst case scenario I get a $30K+ tax cut from the pro-deficit tax plan he has touted.

      The lazy, irresponsible, out-of-wedlock child, opiate and meth addict poorly educated Trump base – angry that being white no longer entitles them to a six figure inflation adjusted factory job like it did when Germany, Britain, France, China and Japan were reduced to rubble – and most of all angry at me for being an elitist with top tier college degree that looks down at them as suckers – got back at me by electing an elitist with a top tier college degree that looks down at them as suckers.

      A New Yorker that endorses single payer health care and Planned Parenthood.

      The Heritage Foundation, which supports open trade, including trade with Cuba, open immigration, and right-to-work neo-liberal domestic economic policy, is already filling the key Trump positions with its people.

      Great for me, bad for the Trump base. Sorry, but nothing about Heritage means $100,000 factory jobs for mediocre white men sitting on the couches of their baby mamma’s houses (a lot of white women voted for Trump because they naively thought he would get jobs for their baby daddys).

      But it does mean lower taxes for me. Especially at the state and local level where I will have right-to-work public sector unions and municipal bankruptcy for the garbage government employees retiring at 50 off my taxes.

      But back to the car.

      “I’ve been hearing people say a lot of bad things about the youth. But I love the youth. I plan to marry some of them.

      And what I’ve been hearing from credible sources on the internet is that the youth want brown all-wheel-drive diesel station wagons with manual transmissions for $15,000. The weight has to be 2,000 pounds. No fatties.

      People say I don’t like the brown cars, but I love the brown cars, the brown cars are beautiful.

      Now I’ve spoken with all the experts in the field, and as long as we get rid of the power windows (what are we, a bunch of lazy Mexicans that can’t roll up their own windows) and power locks (remember to lock all your doors in the black areas) we can do it. Hell I’ll get the price down to $10,000.

      I’ve got some steel producers in China, and I’ve cut a great deal with them. An incredible deal.”

      • 0 avatar
        Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

        F*ckin’ brilliant, racer-esq.

        And I’m a mouthy feminist.

        • 0 avatar

          Have to agree lets give this guy Barks job.

        • 0 avatar
          racer-esq.

          I believe in full reproductive choice and equality under the law, but get tired of hearing about the wage gap when I see young women crushing young men in the professional world and college, and I see the 35 hour a week wife / 70 hour a week husband relationships that drive the wage gap. Obviously even though they both have “full time jobs” the husbands make more. And they pool their money and have the same standard of living. The wage gap seems like an excuse for women that can’t get a job with women’s studies degrees. Hillary was going to show that hard working women can go all the way.

          But after seeing obese garbage with government pensions and government healthcare in their Rascal scooters at Trump rallies with “She’s a C*nt” shirts we are obviously not in a post sexism world.

          • 0 avatar
            DearS

            I think we were fudged either way. Me an I.T. Pro perhaps less than others I hope. Opportunities for growth abound for every voter in America.

      • 0 avatar
        ToddAtlasF1

        Did you just figure out that Trump’s election would be great for you today? Or did you vote against yourself because you’re insane or an imbecile? Both? Kenmore thinks you’re brilliant though, so you’ve got that going for you!

        • 0 avatar
          Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

          *Lisa Loopner voice*

          Oh, Todd… <3 <3 <3 !

        • 0 avatar
          racer-esq.

          Look at Bush vs. Obama. I did fine under both and will be fine with Trump. Nobody but his family and private prison and private fake university owners will be great.

          The country overall did much better (look at any objective number) with Obama’s center-right policies than Bush’s far right full-Heritage (except for Cuban trade and smaller deficits) agenda. But as an upper-middle class investor Trump will give me a bigger piece of a smaller pie. And the Trump base will lose their jobs and have their homes forclosed.

          In 4 to 8 years the poor and irresponsible working class whites will be ready for change again. I just hope we get a center-right neo-liberal like Obama or Hillary instead of a far-left candidate like Sanders.

        • 0 avatar

          Oddly enough some people think of society before them self.

          Odd I know but I’m the guy who has voted for tax increases on myself before.

      • 0 avatar

        This northeast liberal intellectual agrees.

        I know people in the upper levels of NY Commercial Real Estate. None of them will go near the Donald.

        Congrats Heartland, you fell for the con. (“I love my low-information voters” ! D. Trump)

        If that steel/appliance/garment factory re opens I will be singing Soprano at Carnegie Hall next week.

        (can’t sing…at all)

      • 0 avatar
        macmcmacmac

        I hear Hillary owned the non-college educated black vote.

        Anyway, the logical design would be an AWD Pulsar NX with a 6.0l diesel.

  • avatar
    ajla

    “What would the American Folks-Wagon be?”

    In all honesty, I think it would be close to the Jeep Patriot.

  • avatar
    robc123

    I think affordable housing located close to transit would be better, Hitler had to build highways- America has those.

    Almost no one needs, “needs” a car anymore- live downtown work downtown. Anyone who bitches about having to commute an hour or 2 each way- is constrained by an idea that they deserve to be far way with their big house and big lawn. They brought it on themselves and can get out of it themselves, don’t need the state to make them buy a s-box.

    Need to leave town, rent a car, need a car for the day, get a car sharing car. Want to go to the track, want to go for a great drive? get a used miata.

    • 0 avatar
      cdotson

      Affordable housing close to transit is what America was prior to the industrial revolution. It’s a shantytown along the railroad, a fleabag motel by the stagecoach stop, a mud hut beside the horse barn. Half the country lives “out there,” not even within the same county as a population center of any magnitude. Even among the ~150 counties (of over 3000) containing half the population you’d be hard-pressed to identify more than a couple with serviceable transit to support your ideal.

      America is best when people go their *own* way. Pursue their own happiness. Live their own dreams. The automobile makes that possible. Urban centers destroy the individualist impulses among us and weaken our country in the process.

      That said, that’s some top-shelf national-socialist trolling Jack.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        “Urban centers destroy the individualist impulses among us and weaken our country in the process.”

        With some exception, this statement more or less explains this reality:

        http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-phwaYLl6iGM/UJw2ZsdFahI/AAAAAAAAAj8/wg0bSIOhhnI/s1600/electoral-small.png

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        “Urban centers destroy the individualist impulses among us and weaken our country in the process.”

        Funny, then, how pretty much all of the great individuals who lead us (including your dear Gropenfuehrer) come from urban centers.

        This is the sort of thing that people say who have never actually lived in a city.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Wealth is also concentrated in urban areas, which is generally required to become a leader of the proles.

          Seldom does Jim Bob come off the farm, do his short stint in Washington, and come home (as the Framers kinda intended).

        • 0 avatar
          ToddAtlasF1

          Ronald Reagan came from Tampico, Illinois. It’s so small that my spell-checker denies its existence. I can’t think of any other great leaders the US has had in my lifetime, so your point seems to be that you just make stuff up.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I meant “great” when you take off the Breitbart blinders. Reagan deserves credit for handling the Soviets well, but he also was scandal-prone and exploded the deficit; not great.

            Of the greatest presidents in history — Washington, Lincoln, both Roosevelts — only Lincoln came from a rural background, and he moved to a city pretty quickly.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            In order to believe your reality, you’d have to ignore the fact that Ronald Reagan left small-town Illinois for good in 1932, and lived in Los Angeles for 5 years longer than he lived in small town Illinois before getting involved in politics. Of course, he was California’s governor for 8 years prior to running for President and we all understand how small-time the state of California is.

            But I suspect your politics are pretty much predicated on ignoring facts, right?

          • 0 avatar
            cdotson

            Washington certainly came form a rural background. I’ve been to Washington’s birthplace and it’s rural TODAY, and certainly wasn’t less so 284 years ago when he was born.

            Jefferson is among the greatest presidents and had a decidedly rural upbringing at least until his college years in Williamsburg.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @cdotson – I have to agree. We are social animals but we are not capable of coping with being crowded into high population densities. Desmond Morris wrote a book called the Human Zoo. He is a zoologist that saw similar aberrant behaviors in crowded caged zoos that he saw in humans in crowded “caged” urban centres. To quote him, ” The city is not a concrete jungle, it is a human zoo.”

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        cdotson,
        I find your commemt uneducated. Societal, cultural, intellectual, civil, etc expansion accelerated when humans created urban centres.

        The current trend in Australia is denser urbanisation. This greatly reduces costs financially and ecologically to all.

        This lifts the standard of living and quality of life.

      • 0 avatar
        HotPotato

        “Urban centers destroy the individualist impulses among us and weaken our country in the process.”

        You are hilarious. New York City is just full of kind, courteous people foregoing their own interest for that of their fellows, is it? You don’t find out if you’re the best at what you do, and get better at it, by moving to a place where nobody else does that thing. If you’re a blues musician, you don’t move to South Dakota to hone your craft. If you’re a software engineer, you don’t move to Mississippi to master the full stack. Think, Norstadt. Reason.

    • 0 avatar
      Asdf

      Downtown isn’t necessarily a friendly place where one wants to live. The real problem is actually that too many jobs are centralized in towns.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Agree. Telecommuting should destroy this paradigm to some degree.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        Most of the reason downtown “isn’t necessarily a friendly place to live,” where that’s true, is because of deliberate policy choices to favor outlying areas. This is true in several areas of policy and I could write a book about it if I had time.

        Where those choices haven’t had too much impact, downtown life can be really excellent. I think my favorite living situation out of the many I’ve had over the past 15 years or so was my spacious, pretty 11th-floor apartment exactly halfway between the Capitol and the White House in Washington, DC. Of course, there are barely any such apartments suitable for family life — and policy, not the market, is the main reason why. So now I live in a single-family house, in the city of Seattle but not downtown, that cost me both arms, both legs, and one nut.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          My tutor showed me a *really* nice house her daughter was looking at in Seattle, for $875K. I know I would if I could, but I can’t by a longshot.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            That’s just about what it costs here to get a house in a nice neighborhood that needs nothing.

            We paid somewhat less than that, and the result is that our house is in a great neighborhood but is mostly original 1953 and needs a lot of updates.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I’d say that house was spotless and move in ready, I was very impressed. I’m not sure what her son in law does but her daughter is an engineer of some kind.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            If not for having kids living with me, I’d be living downtown or in the city of Denver in a heartbeat.

          • 0 avatar
            56BelAire

            FreedMike said,

            “If not for having kids living with me, I’d be living downtown or in the city of Denver in a heartbeat.”

            Mike, if you move to Denver or just about any other “Utopia”, be sure to have your GPS in good working order when you out at night. You see, gangs like MS-13 love big cities and “the homeless” do too because the government handouts(assistance) are plentiful.

            A “nice neighborhood” far away from the dregs of society is very costly in Denver or any other big city.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Yeah, God forbid I live in proximity to…MINORITIES!

            If I do, I’m doomed!

            (Oy vey…)

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            56BelAire: one more commenter who loves to talk smack about the city without having a clue what’s in it.

            I lived smack in the middle of downtown DC for 5 years… just across the river from downtown Boston for three… and in various neighborhoods in the city of Seattle, including an allegedly “dangerous” one in the southeast part of the city, for most of the rest of my life. “The homeless” or “gangs” have never caused me a single problem. Sometimes the drug pushers create issues, but they’re pretty easy to avoid if you have more wits than your average garden slug.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @dal:

            “The homeless” or “gangs” have never caused me a single problem.”

            …and meanwhile, here in the Denver area, 12 people got blown away in a theater, and 13 got blown away in a school…both by well-off white folks and nowhere near the city of Denver. Make what you will of that, I suppose.

        • 0 avatar
          la834

          I worked in Wsahington DC NW and SW for several years and someone Dal20402 speaks the truth here. What had been an ideally mixed stock of homes for sale, homes for rent, and commercial proporties gave way to entire blocks bought out by the likes of Oliver Carr and their competitors, all looking to wipe DC blocks off the map one at a time and replacing them with modern glasy “office cubes” that gave office space to governement workers who left town by 6pm. There was no longer any nightlife in downtown DC since the only retail were banks, fast-food franchises, and CVS drug stores, stuff you didn’t have to drive to the city to find. Predicabily, these once-thriving neighborhoods were dead non despite the rejumenication efforts by the developers. Now they’re having trouble filling all that boreing office space they built in the ’80s and ’90s that replaced mixed-used older space that had character. and now brings in high prices from homeowners and renters. Meanwhile the hastily-built office towers raised by big conglamerations are half unfilled and losing money. Who could have guessed?

      • 0 avatar
        Xeranar

        Um, most jobs have to be centralized. The problem was as urban centers developed the cost of land was cheap and large scale developers bought up old farms and got the government to subsidize their building costs by providing roads and services free of charge. Had your swanky developments in the post-war era had to actually pay for their service developments they would mirror inner-city setups with much closer housing units and far smaller plots. Instead, they got to sell huge plots of land, build tiny houses (or large but cheaply constructed ones) on lots that created low density housing situations that benefitted the whites who could afford to move out while leaving a significant chunk of white urbanites and minorities behind.

        Pretty much the Interstate Highway system had very little initial impact on major cities, in fact, it helped them grow. It was Phase II developments where highways were built directly INTO the city centers that allowed people to leave and enter at will with no effort that both drove the size of vehicles upward but also devastated what would make for intelligent community living.

        There is plenty of evidence to support these understandings but getting anybody who equates ‘individualism’ with a sense of free-trade/right-wing ideology acknowledge these facts is pointless. I’ve got nothing against the suburbs but pretty much every city subsidized their own tax base loss.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          Xeranar,
          You raise an interesting point regarding the subsidisation of urban areas.

          This has occurred since Babylonian times.

          There has been a reversal of this practice in Australia. Now subdivisions here are built and payed for by people who invest in the realestate. All infrastructure costs are factored into the price of land.

          So when you buy your property you actually paid for the road construction, setvices to your property. You then pay again to be connected to the infrastructure.

    • 0 avatar
      baconator

      This was basically Mao Zhedong’s urbanization program for China. A few million people died along the way, but now they’ve got modern China.

    • 0 avatar

      Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals. I put my back into my living. I don’t need to fight to prove I’m right. I don’t need to be forgiven.

      And. . .

      Oh I know that the hypnotized never lie. Do ya?

  • avatar
    319583076

    It’s queer how out of touch some people are. They live in a world of their own, and there has never been anything like it and never can be. If they were to set it up it would go to pieces before the first sunset. Some confounded fact in existence since the day of creation would start up and knock the whole thing over.

  • avatar
    Asdf

    It won’t be long before people think one is “literally” Hitler merely for having the audacity to drive a car. Due to the increasing influence of insane greenie commies, a car is increasingly seen as something evil, and people are expected to walk, drive a bicycle or use mass transit.

    • 0 avatar
      Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

      “greenie commies”

      I blame Mattel’s Greenie Stick-M-Caps from our Fanner 50s for turning us Boomers into greenies. Anything with greenie in it is good except for hockers.

      • 0 avatar
        shaker

        Mattel designed a whole line of military-themed toys around Greenie Stick-M-Caps as well – Some sort of automatic rifle (the caps were applied to the backs of the shells, like primers), and a grenade with a pneumatic timer – Ahh, memories.

        • 0 avatar
          Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

          Sheesh… I was overjoyed to have just my cowboy pistols. And we weren’t allowed much TV so I was blissfully ignorant of the Stick-M-Cap buildout.

  • avatar
    orenwolf

    Obligatory XKCD:

    https://xkcd.com/725/

  • avatar
    dal20402

    The only explanation I can offer for this column is that Jack is still hung over from his Election Night binge. Or maybe that it never ended.

    Also… Trump won the election under the system we have, but it’s a stretch to describe that as “democratic.” As of right now, 400,000 more Americans voted for Hillary than Trump. When all the votes are counted that will probably be closer to half a million. Trump won the election because our system says small-state votes are worth more than big-state votes, as much as 4x more in the extreme case.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      There is no guarantee that a hypothetical election based on the popular vote would have ended up with the same numbers as the current EC-based one. You play the game you’ve got. It’s just excuses.

      When my candidate lost and it came out my own party’s establishment sand-bagged him and saw him as a nuisance I was told to get over it and take my medicine. Complaints were to be eye-rolled away. “Bernie Bros” needed to fall in line for Queen Hillary. And, this “make fun of them all” idea was the same strategy used in the general election against the Republicans.

      Then the Clintonites and their cronies spent the last month patting themselves on the back and taking a victory lap. Now **Donald M’fing Trump** is President because they tripped over their d*cks and didn’t give a sh*t about a large part of the traditional Democrat base. So our reponse is to call everyone racist and *literally* cry like a bunch of stereotypes.

      Whatever. They can deal with it and take their medicine now. We get what we deserve. It’s been a week, I’m done thinking about it. In two years maybe we’ll do something about it.

      /Rant.

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        ajla beautifully summed up.

        Don’t apply democracy selectively dal. The people wanted Bernie but the DNC stuffed rotten Hillary down their throats with super delegates and a corrupt DNC.

        Story time: after Wikileaks exposed Debbie Wasserman Schulz colluding to suppress Sanders which ended in her resignation as DNC chair, she was promptly offered a position as a campaign manager for Hillary. It goes even deeper. Guess who gave up his spot as DNC chair to let crooked Debbie run the show?

        Tim Kaine.

        Colluding and disgraced Donna Brazile was interim DNC chair both times as well.

        Quid Pro Quo should have been the Clinton campaign slogan.

        • 0 avatar
          Whatnext

          Many Democrats may have wanted Bernie, but it’s off to suggest the majority of Americans would. Socalists from the Northeast don’t have such a great track record.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          “The people wanted Bernie”

          Hillary won the primary popular vote.

          “the DNC stuffed rotten Hillary down their throats with super delegates and a corrupt DNC.”

          Hillary won the regular delegates, no superdelegates necessary.

          I won’t defend the DNC, but Hillary won the primary and caucus votes fair and square.

          And it’s crazy to think Bernie would have waltzed to victory. He has some really nutty stuff in his record. The negative ads would have been quite a bit easier to write against him.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “The negative ads would have been quite a bit easier to write against him.”

            Easier than against Hillary? Seriously? I don’t know if he would have won but it’s not like Clinton didn’t lose anyway.
            ——————–
            “off to suggest the majority of Americans would.”

            You don’t need a “majority of Americans”. You need to win the EC. One day I hope the Democrats figure that out.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            Fair enough, thanks for the correction. I will stand by the fact that Bernie MAY have done better if he didn’t have the DNC crapping on him at every opportune moment.

            One could easily argue that Bernie would have retained the Rust Belt states, and didn’t have any damaging investigations going on. Add to that him not being a neocon supported warmonger (and not have Trump’s bluster issue). Of course, him saying white people can’t be poor or know what it’s like to live in ghettos is pretty terrible.

            I say this from a very analytical point of view, I did not want him winning anyways. But as a Trump supporter I honestly think he could have beaten Trump.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I think there would have been two tracks of attack against Bernie in the general, neither of which got made at all in the primary:

            1) SOCIALIST SOCIALIST SOCIALIST FREE STUFF SELF-AVOWED SOCIALIST. The voters who decided this election don’t particularly love that aspect of left-wing politics. And his program would make it easy, and more credible than the same attack against the obviously liberal (in the old sense) Hillary.

            2) Attacks based on the 1972 essay on sex and other similar stuff he wrote and said around the same time which was really pretty out there.

            http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/29/410606045/the-bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy-essay-explained

            Also, the DNC very likely hurt Bernie, but it’s also true that the Hillary campaign pulled its punches a bit in the name of preserving some Democratic unity. She could have gone far more negative if she had felt the outcome was in doubt.

          • 0 avatar

            The DNC rigged it against Bernie. They thought Bernie was too dangerous and Hillary was a safe choice. Had the DNC and the press given him his share I feel he could have pulled out the primary. They rigged the debates against him. And while Hillary may have pulled her punches Bernie pulled way more about her until the end.

            Negative ads had little effect this election cycle (Hillary ran more then Trump did). Turn out in key states killed this election, it turns out people don’t turn out to vote against something as much as they do to vote for something. I think Bernie would have pulled enough more young voters into the fold to pull Florida and PA and maybe Ohio. His anti trade middle class message also would have played better in the rust belt then Hillary.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            The “DNC rigged the election against Bernie” stuff is pure nonsense, dreamed up by 1) Bernie supporters or 2) Republicans who would have loved to see Bernie actually get nominated, just so they could repeat the word “socialist” 1.26 million times.

            The second point is why the DNC was clearly for Clinton. But “rigged”? Garbage. She got millions more votes than Sanders did.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Freed mike Wikileaks has a 100% accuracy rating thus far, and according to the DNC itself, yes they purposely rigged the election against Bernie. This is neither here nor there though since they also suggest Bernie was a ploy to drive up dem voters to turn out once they put crooked into the GE, she certainly couldn’t have gotten the turnout alone, she won less votes in the PE in 2016 than she did in 2008.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            You’re right, Hummer, the DNC clearly forced millions more voters to vote for Clinton than voted for Bernie. I guess they mastered the Jedi Mind Trick. It must be true…it’s on Wikileaks.

            Clearly I can’t argue with you or your tinfoil hat. You’re both out of my league.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            I mean they talk about how they stole the election for Hillary, Bernie should have won California but they threw away his ballots as well as played around with the voting machines.

            How can you stand idly by and support the things the Clinton Campaign has done? There’s nothing about her redeeming.

        • 0 avatar
          Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

          “Quid Pro Quo should have been the Clinton campaign slogan.”

          That’s what stability looks like in human societies.

          Promising irremediable dead-enders a slice of the pie that’s decades beyond their grasp and rapidly accelerating further away is what a booby-trap looks like in human societies.

    • 0 avatar
      DC Bruce

      [sigh] Another stupid Daily Kos talking point. The candidates conducted themselves under the rules that were in place, including the requirement to win a certain number of states. Since Electoral Votes are the same as the number of members of the House of Representatives — the membership of which is re-calculated based on the most recent US Census, a person’s vote in, say, Wyoming is not worth more than one’s in, say, California.

      Most importantly, the candidates, knowing that their chances of winning certain states were low, didn’t bother to campaign in those states. Thus, Republicans in recent years haven’t bothered to campaign in California, Massachusetts and New York. And Democrats haven’t bothered to campaign in Texas, Alabama or Kansas, to name a few.

      So you can’t assume that, in a truly national election, the outcome would be that Clinton would have won, just because she won in the state-by-state campaign mandated by the Constitution. The outcome very well could have been the same, because Trump — a New Yorker — would have campaigned in New York and California, among others.

      In the great majority of the presidential elections, the winner also gets the most votes nationally.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        “Since Electoral Votes are the same as the number of members of the House of Representatives”

        That’s just not correct. EVs are the same as the House *plus the Senate*, except that the District of Columbia gets three even though it doesn’t have votes in Congress. It’s the inclusion of the Senate that provides the small-state bias. And, yes, there are about four times as many EVs per voter in Wyoming as there are in California.

        The rest of your point is valid. But it’s still really a stretch to describe an Electoral College victory as “democratic” when the popular vote doesn’t match. The issue is that the EC itself is not democratic by design.

    • 0 avatar
      philipwitak

      “…our system says small-state votes are worth more than big-state votes, as much as 4x more in the extreme case.”

      absolutely true. california has 55 electoral votes. but if california’s allocation was based on a population ratio similar to that used for wyoming, or either of the dakotas for example – three in each case – the golden state would have 199 electoral votes.

    • 0 avatar
      56BelAire

      No Dal, 2,500,000 left coast Californians voted for Hillary………

      and in the other 49 states combined, 2,00,000 more people voted for Trump.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        “and in the other 49 states combined, 2,00,000 more people voted for Trump.”

        Wow, 2,00,000. That’s a cool number.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        Another equally irrelevant and dumb way to slice and dice the vote: In the former slave states, Trump racked up a multimillion-vote lead. In the parts of the country that never had slavery, Hillary dominated.

        • 0 avatar
          ToddAtlasF1

          Which parts of the country never had slaves?

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            These states had slavery while part of the US (either as state or territory):

            DE, MD, VA, NC, SC, KY, TN, GA, FL, AL, MS, MO, AR, LA, OK, TX, NM, AZ, NV.

            The rest never had slavery while part of the US. There was some slavery in the northeast before there was a US and there was slavery in CA while it was controlled by the Spanish, but I’m not counting either of those things.

          • 0 avatar
            Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

            Hot places are great for agrarian economies, not so great for a thinking, self-reliant citizenry that believes in education, opportunity and merit.

            Vorwärts!
            1848

      • 0 avatar
        Xeranar

        Then lets discuss the fact that the 3 rustbelt states had a 100K total split between them. That trump got less votes than Romney/McCain and basically won by a hair’s breadth. He didn’t get a mandate, he got low turnout luck. He now needs to produce or fail miserably. The reality is though that he’s just going to commit to the same Bush II agenda, maybe Ryan privatizes Medicare in time for 2020 to get destroyed by the aging out base that simply doesn’t want more of their stupid views.

        Also, California is the biggest GDP in the US, followed by NY. I mean, from a perspective of dollars to donuts, those places matter. So if she got blown out in Oklahoma, well who cares? Takers gonna take and they voted for Trump’s stupidity. Congrats on 4 years of self-destruction….

    • 0 avatar
      Flipper35

      I thought the US was a republic, not a democracy?

  • avatar
    Balto

    While I don’t think that trump is “literally hitler”, I do think his tactic of turning citizens against people who are different than them using fear and hate isn’t too far from 1930’s Germany. He probably isn’t going to suggest mass genocide, but he has surprised us before.

    • 0 avatar
      ToddAtlasF1

      Excuse me, but it was the Democrats burning Republican offices, beating Trump supporters in the streets, and sending violent protestors to their opponent’s political campaign events. If you want to see a fascist, your mirror beckons.

      • 0 avatar
        LeMansteve

        It goes both ways.

        A friend of ours was pumping gas in broad daylight at a busy gas station. Strangers in a passing car yelled out to her “I wanna grab you by the p***y!”. Complete strangers.

        It’s not physical violence or burning offices, but it isn’t much better.

      • 0 avatar
        SC5door

        “Democrats burning Republican offices”—which was condemned and money was raised by the Democrats to help rebuild the office. But you forgot to mention that, even your own Fox news reported it:

        http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/17/democrats-raise-funds-for-gop-after-north-carolina-headquarters-firebombed.html

        Or how about Republicans standing outside of poling offices with guns asking if people were voting for “Crooked Hillary”:

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-supporter-gun-voter-intimidation-virginia_us_581cf16ee4b0aac624846eb5

        Or how about another Trump supporter sitting outside another poling location with a gun and a sign that says “Fa**ots Vote Democrat”

        http://www.newnownext.com/man-with-gun-faggots-vote-democrat-sign-detained-outside-houston-polling-place/11/2016/

      • 0 avatar

        Their just more passionate that’s all.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      Yeah, remember when he called half the electorate “deplorable”?

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        She called half of *Trump supporters*, not the electorate, “deplorable” and then said she regretted saying “half.”

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Because she meant all, and as it turns out those are about half the electorate (more than half if one excludes illegals and dead people).

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            “she meant all”

            Do you have any support whatsoever for this?

            If not, it’s no different than assuming without evidence that a Trump supporter is deplorable.

            There’s also no evidence for the other half of your statement.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Right from the Clinton News Network:

            “Hillary Clinton expressed “regret” Saturday for comments in which she said “half” of Donald Trump’s supporters are “deplorables,” meaning people who are racist, sexist, homophobic or xenophobic.

            “Last night I was ‘grossly generalistic,’ and that’s never a good idea. I regret saying ‘half’ — that was wrong,” Clinton said in a statement in which she also vowed to call out “bigotry” in Trump’s campaign.”

            “Clinton had earlier divided Trump’s supporters into “two big baskets,” what she called “the deplorables,” in an interview with Channel 2 News Israel that aired Thursday.”

            http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-basket-of-deplorables/

            *I regret saying ‘half’ — that was wrong*

            What a nice backhanded complement. I don’t regret saying the original statement, I regret saying only half of them are deplorables; which implies the true thinking is you are all as such. Oh but I meant only half of them in the original statement, I meant the other half are good people, and now I mean you are all good people. C’mon. Much like a career criminal, she only says so much and sticks to a prepared statement. Human beings expressing remorse typically retract whole statements.

            On illegals:

            When asked: “Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens – and I call them citizens because the contribute to this country – are fearful of voting. So if I vote, will Immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?”, the President was quoted on Mexican television:

            “Not true,” Obama replied. “And the reason is, first of all, when you vote, you are a citizen yourself. And there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, etc. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential.”

            http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama-urges-illegal-immigrants-vote-without-fear-getting-caught

            Citizens do not live in fear of immigration authorities. The President answered her question and explained voting rolls are not being tracked by the authorities without addressing the fact only citizens are eligible to vote or questioning/clarifying why citizens would live in fear of immigration. You’re the doctor of the law but he certainly seems in violation of the spirit of the one which requires citizenship to vote if he is actually telling Mexican television we don’t investigate who votes. This looks pretty bad for a sitting President. Since this information, per the President, is not being investigated, it would be difficult to prove how many illegal aliens voted in the election, but naive to believe no illegal alien anywhere registered and cast a vote in violation of voting laws (also people voting twice, dead people voting, etc). One would have to investigate whatever information is being tracked in order to make a case one way or the other (assuming this information is available to the public and is sufficient to draw any conclusions upon).

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Come on now, you’re better than that. What you’re arguing doesn’t make any sense in context. The whole point she was making in the first place was that Trump supporters are *not* all just a bunch of racists and xenophobes, and that Democrats need to empathize more with the large number of them who are not. If she had said “a few” instead of “half,” there would have been no controversy at all.

            And I also don’t get how you get from “Obama reminded a questioner that only citizens can vote” to “Obama said improper voting won’t be investigated.” Remember that elections are run by states with county assistance, not by the federal government, and that election authorities in a majority of states are Republican. Those are the people responsible for investigating voter fraud and directing it to appropriate enforcement authorities.

          • 0 avatar
            Jack Baruth

            “They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

            That was the precise equivalent to Hillary’s “deplorables” comment. I don’t recall the media “correcting the record” on Trump.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            They’re kind of mirror images of each other.

            The point Hillary was trying to make (but got all wrong): “Some Trump supporters aren’t deplorable and we should empathize with them.”

            The point Trump was trying to make (and did so exactly as he intended): “Mexicans are rapists. Except for some of them.”

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            CNN doesn’t list the whole speech in its video, so the issue of context is a fair one. If the implication was half of Trump supporters (or 1/4 of the electorate) are all these terrible things and we can reach out to the rest, in her apology she should have withdrawn the whole statement and then clarified we can reach out to those who are X. “I regret saying ‘half’” now seems to imply “I don’t think Trump supporters are racist, sexist, homophobic or xenophobic”, which is clearly not what she believes. She was badly dancing around her own statements instead of just admitting the whole line of thinking was wrong. I put to you the reason for this is because she doesn’t think she was wrong, she holds all of her opposition in disdain. I regret saying ‘half’ [because I meant them all].

            The President explained voting rolls are not turned over to the authorities. Therefore, no one is investigating who voted and the legality of the voting. (On Mexican television, in response to a question about undocumented citizens voting, which is a whole other issue). If the President is right and no one is investigating voting rolls or voting information, there will be no hard evidence of voter fraud. But it is naive to assume voter fraud is not occurring somewhere in the electorate.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Really dal?
            “The point Hillary was trying to make (but got all wrong): “Some Trump supporters aren’t deplorable and we should empathize with them.”

            The point Trump was trying to make (and did so exactly as he intended): “Mexicans are rapists. Except for some of them.””

            He said they’re sending the bad people – their rapists. This is simple stuff it’s the difference between they’re and their. Was he wrong? Well all the girls that have been raped and murdered by illegals are being eerily silent, possibly because they’re dead.
            Find me a video where he says all Mexicans are rapists.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            28: I still don’t think your point about Hillary makes any sense. She wanted to say that a minority of Trump supporters are deplorables — which is just a fact; look at the reverence the white nationalists and KKK have for him! — and that the rest deserve to be taken seriously. Read the whole remarks and that’s obvious.

            Hummer: Mexico isn’t “sending” people. The people who come from there choose to do so of their own free will (and since 2009 or so, more have been going back than coming). Unless Trump was trying to argue that rapists and criminals are particularly likely to choose to come in, which he could have but didn’t, he was saying that Mexicans are rapists.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I’d have to see the whole speech transcript regarding context, but if this was the case choosing to say “half” are X and then retract the “half” part wasn’t the best way to say, “some”, or a “small minority” of supporters are X and she should know better since part of her message was supposed to be her decades of experience.

            Regarding Secy Clinton personally, I expect her to wind up beyond this world pretty soon as she is worth so much more to everyone dead than alive. I doubt Trump really wants to have an OJ style trial distract so early in his presidency, Obama doesn’t want to be on record pardoning her, and most importantly they need a martyr for the Chelsea campaign in 2024 or 2028 (I am leaning toward 2028 personally and no its not a pun). Either her Parkinson’s does her in for real (shes stage 3/4 most likely), they fake it and put her in hiding till natural death, they suicide her, or she’s already dead (granted the most unlikely scenario but still possible, she was First Lady and probably had a body double and most appearances post-9/11 were green screens). In any event I suspect she’s taking a dirt nap sooner than later unless they can magically cure her ailments.

            http://www.everydayhealth.com/parkinsons-disease/parkinsons-disease-progression.aspx

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Again I request proof he said those things.

            Illegals are being deported multiple times, it doesn’t take them long to realize their actions have no consequences and as a result they have left a trail of death and yes, rape.
            Trump has no called all Mexicans rapists, at any point.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Deplorable,” “Second Amendment people,” “lock her up,” and other choice sound bites from this stupid election are just that…stupid sound bites.

            Why is anyone even arguing about it?

        • 0 avatar
          Xeranar

          And so far with almost 200 marked racial incidents so far it’s proving quite true. I mean, what’s the excuse for school children chanting ‘build the wall’ at latino students or chanting ‘white power’ after his win? We can play games all day long but you have to acknowledge at some point Trump normalized white supremacy.

          No, he isn’t Hitler. No he doesn’t have the authority to be a fascist. Is he a shitty racist? It seems like it….Atleast to the extent that he’s willing to support white supremacy through tweets and inaccurate statements on race relations.

          To be blunt: After Brexit hate crimes shot up dramatically. We’re going to see the same here. The question is how do we address something that we know is happening?

      • 0 avatar
        319583076

        Do you need a “safe space”, Jack? Does that word “trigger” you?

        • 0 avatar
          Jack Baruth

          Where I live, triggers are attached to match-grade AR-15s. If Trump supporters ever decide to be “triggered”, there won’t be a “safe space” to be had.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            I’m sure your bedroom community’s militia members keep their big guns well oiled.

          • 0 avatar
            Jack Baruth

            I’m not sure the last time there was a serious violent crime in my town. Fifteen, twenty years. Maybe more.

            Yet everybody’s got a safe full of military weapons.

            Pros: zero likelihood of BLM or other rabble-rousers ever disturbing the peace

            Cons: potential post-societal-collapse difficulties when some people bring 5.56mm stuff and others bring 7.62×51.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            I’m sure the BLM movement was planning to demonstrate on Liberty street, but some (no doubt Liberal-affiliated) Benedict Arnold must’ve tipped them off about the extensive arsenals of “military weapons” ensconced behind the faux-brick facades of row after row of quarter-million dollar McMansions sprouting from the fecund soil of the Smoky View Forest Wood Estates and thus, all rabble-rousing was averted and the peace was steadfastly maintained.

            Good show, Patriot!

            On the other hand, the aching desire to unload into the objects of your derision and compare penetration notes with your comrades no doubt leaves you crestfallen. You can always dress in full leathers and blast over to the shooting range upon your powerful crotch rocket to squeeze off a few rounds with like-minded citizens and relieve that terrible, all-consuming tension.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Where I live, triggers are attached to match-grade AR-15s. ”

            I’ll just decline the troll request here.

          • 0 avatar

            I’m curious about this. I mentioned it over at Barks post on Jacks site. If the left is getting more aggressive as time goes on while the right seems to be all talk, won’t that mean the fight is not as one sided as it seems. It’s not like urban areas are devoid of arms or people that know how to get that sort of thing on short notice.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “It’s not like urban areas are devoid of arms or people that know how to get that sort of thing on short notice.”

            Criminals aren’t “liberal” or “conservative” – they’re just criminals.

          • 0 avatar

            True it’s just an observation and in no way do I condone violent actions or destructive protests (I’m a pacifist man). I think it’s interesting because the left seems to be getting much more passionate about things then the right is. The middle class and poor left seems to be acting more like the same group in places like France where they protest and fight against anything that may harm their well being and lively hood. It should be noted they have been fairly effective in France doing that. People like Jack seem to point to the fringes on the right and left as being a one side right takes all battle if things ever came to be. But there seems to be an enthusiasm gap on the right.

          • 0 avatar
            brenschluss

            “I’m a pacifist man”

            I’m not, and that’s all I’ll say on the internet.

          • 0 avatar

            By pacifist I mean me personally would not get involved other then defense of my family. Now does war and violence often get things done? Sure I’m with you there.

      • 0 avatar

        Again in the anti PC Trump world how is an off the cuff insult about part of his supporters that big of a deal?

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          “Again in the anti PC Trump world how is an off the cuff insult about part of his supporters that big of a deal?”

          It isn’t. But in the We Dish The Trash Talk Out But Can’t Take It Trump World, it’s bad, bad bad…

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      Yea Trump was using fear and hate.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/itsmikebivins/status/796946492032450560

      Oh nooo, turns out Hillary is the hate filled candidate, that sucks.

      If she had any shred of decency she would be denouncing that at the top of her lungs.

      Here we go again with the cognitive dissonance, what kind of hoops do you have to jump through to think Trump is the hate filled one?

      • 0 avatar
        brenschluss

        Whoddathunk that after a year or more of threats of violent revolution and razing of population centers if Hillary won, such a reaction in the opposite direction could have occurred.

        At least the rural extremists had the good sense to threaten to come to their “enemies” where these idiots are just burning their own cities down.

        • 0 avatar
          Balto

          Wow, that comment set people off. Not particularly a Hillary defender, just saying trump’s rhetoric throughout the campaign was not particularly friendly towards non white people, non christians, or anyone who disagreed with him in any way. Not trying to promote any viewpoint in particular, simply an observation that both Trump and hitler used “othering” groups of people for their personal gain. There are many ways in which they are wildly different, but in that sense they are similar.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Trump received more minority votes than any republican in a very long time, only 60% of the people that voted for him were white. I can’t understand why you think minorties are against him, it simply doesn’t pan out that way when you ask around. He literally spent the entire campaign being inclusive as possible to all minority groups – different races, religions(or lack of), LGBT, and women(of which he won more white women that Hillary).

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Can’t forget about working to help intercity poor for decades, helping Rainbow PUSH etc, the mans spent a lot of time and money helping underprivileged minorities. The Minorities won him Florida.

          • 0 avatar
            brenschluss

            This Rainbow PUSH?

            http://www.rainbowpush.org/commentaries/single/black_voters_have_plenty_to_lose_with_trump

            Trump won almost every demographic because Hillary Clinton was the worst choice for a Democratic candidate put forth in my lifetime, not because Trump has any redeeming qualities beyond not being named Clinton or Bush. We just happened to have the least-likable candidate ever face off against the second-least-likable candidate ever.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Yes that one, of course they would come out against Trump, they have to abide by the dem taking points.

            See this is where your wrong, voter turn out was up, Trump was getting 15k+ people at his ralies, people were truly excited about him being president, More so than even Obama in 08. The wave that pushed Trump into office was massive and was because of the man he is.

            The worst two possible people that could have ran for president would have been a Jeb vs Clinto match up, that man probably wouldn’t be able to win Texas. People that don’t understand the Trump movement will not understand the force that he represents to pushing our country ahead of the ROW. I go on and off college campuses for various reasons and Every single day this week I’ve seen multiple MAGA hats being worn.

            This elections choices couldn’t have been more different, the choice was a career criminal or a man that has created more jobs and donated more time and money than any candidate in history. The future with Hillary was undeniably a path to war with Russia, and selfish money grabbing.

          • 0 avatar
            brenschluss

            Voter turnout was up??

            http://lmgtfy.com/?q=voter+turnout+2016

            This isn’t worth my time.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/93498784/?client=safari

            Absolutely, 4.7% up according to USAtoday.

            “MIAMI — The United States appeared to be on the verge of record-setting voter turnout Tuesday, as people on all sides of the political spectrum flocked to the polls.”

            Interesting how the Clinton Narritive Network has the only opposing article.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “The wave that pushed Trump into office was massive and was because of the man he is.”

            And…what a man!

            What a wave!

            Now, I’d say that this tells you something about the wave…but I’m sure everyone would get deeply offended by that. Apparently to “the wave” members, Trump is the only one who can trash talk people and then just say “I’m telling it like it is” and get away with it. Does that say something about “the wave” too?

            Nawwww…

          • 0 avatar

            Hummer it was the lowest turn out in 20 years do a google search for pete’s sake.

          • 0 avatar
            brenschluss

            My fault for not clarifying overall turnout and downballot votes vs. people actually voting for president.

            The data is not yet fully in for the latter but it is expected to be lower than in 2012, which was in turn lower than 2008. When taking into account that the population has grown significantly in that span, the percentages are likely not as positive as you claim.

            You’re one of few people who say his success was “because of the man he is” rather than him being the necessary evil many felt was the only alternative to a status quo that was enriching a small majority at the expense a large minority that had no exposure to the rising tide.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            I literally just posted an article saying it was up 4.7% and that it nearly broke records, from a google search no less.

            Mike I’m not sure why you act like that’s a bad thing to speak your mind, it’s much preferred to Hillary who has a public and a private position. In Public she supports LGBT, in private she still is against gay marriage.

            So progressive!! Such a great candidate!!

          • 0 avatar

            Hummer that article was posted while the results were still coming in. CNN 3 hours ago low voter turn out
            http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/popular-vote-turnout-2016/

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “In Public she supports LGBT, in private she still is against gay marriage.”

            That probably explains why Hillary Clinton got about 80% of the LBGT vote…and the vote of the person you’re talking to, who himself has a gay kid.

            Gay people must secretly want to be discriminated against. And I secretly want my kid riding the back of the bus. Yeah, that’s it.

            Or you must be lying.

            Or maybe people change positions over the years. Lord knows Donald Trump has.

            Take your pick.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Mike calm down, your candidate is supported by countries that throw gays off roofs, torture them, and stone them to death. This is an undeniable fact. The ME didn’t seem very interest in sending all that money to the Trump campaign.

            Additionally yes the public/private anti gay is right their in the Wikileaks, it’s really not even debatable the proof from their own words is literally available at your finger tips.

            Not so strangely to us that stay informed, Trump was on stage in Colorado waving a rainbow flag, and is putting Peter Thiel into his staff, and possibly the Supreme Court. Damn that would just be great if the guy you spew so much anti-liberal social issue vitriol at was the guy that put the first Gay man on the Supreme Court.

            Clinton is on record changing her public position for gay marriage, though we all know privately she’s still against it. Seems Trumps been working with and outwardly supporting the LGBT community since at least the 90s.

            So Mike, take your pick anti-gay democrat (proven in WL) that strongly supports Refugees that hate LGBT, who also takes massive amounts of money from countries that want Gay people dead.

            Or the man that has fought for gay rights and public ally supported LGBT for at least 25 years

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Mike calm down, your candidate is supported by countries that throw gays off roofs…”

            And Trump’s supported by a guy who likes to invade foreign countries for no particular reason, and happens to have 10,000-odd nukes pointed at us.

            (A pattern emerges here…when Hummer’s last nonsense comment gets outwitted, it’s on to the next nonsense argument…next up…cankles…)

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Really the Putin response? The last ditch effort of CTR when they have nothing.

            Hillary = WW3 with Russia, and make no doubt, it would have been fought on our soil and we would have lost.
            Trump = peace with Russia.

            Voting for Hillary was voting for war.

            Russia has been practicing Nuclear bunker drills in Major cities like St.Peterburg, US troops are being trained to be placed in Ukraine in case of war. Our country, the world is at the edge of the war to end all wars WW3, no one wins. And you by some crazy mental loops are able to support a war with Russia.

            http://mashable.com/2016/03/30/american-troops-in-eastern-europe/#SIfIPE08QPq7

          • 0 avatar
            Xeranar

            Is it weird that the far right suddenly want to kiss and hug Putin even though as little as a year ago they were demanding Obama kick Putin’s teeth in.

            It basically confirms they have no convictions and merely operate on whatever basis suits them in the moment…

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    “Think of the jobs it would create, too. If you want to get all (Bill) Clinton-esque about it, you could start by hiring people who are on public assistance now. Hire all the veterans who came back from Afghanistan with nightmares and scars only to find their hometown factories closed. Hire the disadvantaged people whose hopelessness has turned them to violence.”

    I think that’s already his plan but with infrastructure instead. That’s why he’s talking so much about rebuilding infrastructure. Construction jobs for everybody!

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Except that his private financing plan for infrastructure mostly benefits private owner/operator profits, not jobs. There would be some jobs under his plan, but far fewer than if the government spent the same amount directly on building infrastructure.

      • 0 avatar
        HotPotato

        I wish Trump well in addressing infrastructure. I don’t think his method is efficient though — have private industry borrow the money for more than it would cost the government to borrow, and then charge the public tolls to use the public roads so that the private company can make a profit? I admit that the profit motive might help light a fire and expedite projects, but there’s gotta be a better way.

        If Trump’s willing to take a page from his predecessor (and he seems to be more open-minded about that than expected so far), he might study the American Recovery & Reinvestment Act (I know: Trump study? not the guy’s nature, for better or worse, but bear with me here). ARRA fixed or expanded a whole lot of infrastructure, it was exemplary in its transparent and accountable use of taxpayer money with reports available on every cent spent and every job created, it took advantage of cheap government borrowing rates, and it didn’t leave the public stuck with tolls and user fees everywhere. Not a bad model.

  • avatar
    dingram01

    The design has already been finalized: http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/0/05/TheHomer.png/revision/latest?cb=20090908145331

  • avatar
    philadlj

    The optional “bud vase” would mean something very different in eight states (and counting).

  • avatar

    “We’re long past the era of “stamp books”, which is the way that people “financed” the KdF-Wagen. ”

    Let me explain why Jack used quotation marks. The KdF-Wagen enterprise was a scam. Workers had funds deducted from their paychecks for the stamps, but no workers ever got a Type I. A few were built after the start of the war for the Nazi elite. Dr. Porsche was working on military variants even before the Nazis started building the factory in 1938 in what would become Wolfsburg.

    While Adolf Hitler was clearly enthused about developing a “volkswagen”, it remains to be seen whether it was an effort to create a people’s car or just another facet of Hitler’s militarization of Germany.

    As a side note, $7,999 is close to what the Elio trike will sell for if they get it to production (Elio stock has taken a hit since local politicians in Shreveport raked Paul Elio over the coals over production delays and an empty factory).

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      Not to stick up for Hitler here, but I think it’s safe to assume that had there been no war the KdF-wagens would have eventually been delivered.

      You might well respond that war always in the plan, to which I have no effective counter.

      • 0 avatar

        I’m not WWII historian but I’d have to assume that by 1938, when the factory was built, plans for the invasion of Poland in Sept. 1939 were well underway.

        • 0 avatar
          vvk

          One would assume that, given that Hitler was a sane person of at least average intelligence. However, one would be mistaken. Hitler was a blabbering, insane idiot. There were no preparations for the war, no mobilization of industry, no good maps, no weapons to counter advanced Soviet technology. He was absolutely unprepared for the war and for the Soviet machine about to strike him and the rest of Europe. He was so unprepared, in fact, that the invasion of the Soviet Union came as a huge shock to Soviet leadership. Simply because none could believe that Hitler was insane enough to attack the strongest, best prepared, best equipped military in the world.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “He was so unprepared, in fact, that the invasion of the Soviet Union came as a huge shock to Soviet leadership.”

            I don’t think that quite covers it. Yes, the Soviets were “surprised” by the invasion, but it’s not like they were surprised that Hitler would attack them. That was all laid out in “Mein Kampf” for anyone to read. And the key reasons for the non aggression pact were to create a buffer zone in Poland, and to buy time for the military to rebuild itself after Stalin’s purges in the 1930’s.

            I think what “shocked” them was a) that it came that quickly, on the heels of conquering western Europe, and b) that it was so incredibly effective.

            But I doubt Stalin was surprised over the invasion itself. He knew war with Germany was inevitable.

            And, no, in 1941, Hitler was not stupid, or insane. The insanity came later, caused in no small part by drug addiction.

    • 0 avatar
      la834

      I was *just* coming here to post the same thing. NOT A SINGLE PERSON who put money into KdF-wagen stamps ever got a car, or a reimbursement. Historians mostly consider it a scam designed to finance the Nazi military buildup, although some think it originally was intended to be real if war didn’t somehow break out first and change German priorities.

      • 0 avatar
        Jack Baruth

        “As a foonote, in 1961, 337,000 Germans finally settled their lawsuit in a German court for the KdF-wagens they had never received. They were granted their choice of 100 Deutschmarks or a 600 Deutschmark discount on the purchase of a new Volkswagen.”

        http://www.upi.com/Commentary-The-bugs-in-VWs-past/17851038383103/

    • 0 avatar
      Zykotec

      The KDF-wagen being a scam explains why the exterior design was the best part of it .

  • avatar
    fishiftstick

    Fine. Trump is not a fascist. He’s just a malignant narcissist, a swindler, a racist and a sexual predator.

    I’ve never been happier to be Canadian.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      Can you supply us with any examples of why he is those things or are you just another sheep parroting what your leaders have told you to believe?

      • 0 avatar
        TOTitan

        Hummer….he is not parroting…rather you are in denial about the incredibly unqualified douchebag who by his own admission does not even read, that you helped elect. We have become the laughingstock of the world. America used to be great but it soon wont be. Its time to make America smart again after years of dumbing down by the gop/fox news propaganda machine.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          So you proved my point, you’ve swallowed every single line the MSM including FOX which has been overtly pro Clinton has fed to you. We’re not throwing out talking points, this is verified information that the Clinton campaign /DNC were collaborating with the US media.

          You are completely unable to provide evidence to support your statements, rather you resort to insults because the entire basis of your argument is too weak to support with fact.

          The world is tired of being ruled by the establishment that has no care about the normal people that want to live a successful and full life. Along with Brexit, shock elections in Eastern Europe, such as the Serbian radical party, and then even in Germany with Afd. These movements are the future, get on the train or get left behind.

          • 0 avatar
            TOTitan

            Hummer you are beyond delusional. Your dream candidate tells the whole truth exactly 4% of the time. Anyone who thinks he will make a good president is brain dead…IMHO. http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

        • 0 avatar
          Zykotec

          Looking from the outside, I believe you are correct about ‘our’ collective view of America right now. But Europeans are getting worse everyday too. I think racism and especially hatred towards muslims is worse here in Europe, but as our public education is better ,we are less religious ,and our ‘socialist’ governments prevent poverty a lot better, Europeans can’t really identify with poor Americans, even less with rural the working middle class, and just don’t understand their motivations and values. ‘poor’ working class Europeans instead seem to identify more with urban middle-class Americans, since their lives are more similar to ours, and then it makes more sense to support the Democrats.
          As for America being ‘great’. I bet after the war America really was ‘great’ if you were a white middle-class male, and not so much if you weren’t.

      • 0 avatar
        philipwitak

        re: “…any examples of why he is those things…”???

        narcissist: purchased and prominently displays large-scale ‘works-of-art’ depicting himself [with charity money he is not legally entitled to use]. plasters his name all over any business opportunity he becomes affiliated with.

        swindler: trump university swindled most of its students [lawsuit for fraud goes live, later this month]. trump habitually refuses to pay many of his subcontractors, even though he also invites them to bid again on upcoming projects.

        racist: ‘mexico sending us rapists…’; his many wonderful, personal relationships with “the blacks”

        sexual predator: video evidence of dips hit’s bus-ride with billy bush. complaints from about a dozen women who claim to have actually suffered at the teeny-tiny hands of president pussy-grabber.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          If he had bought personal items with charity money he would be in jail, but, turns out even with the entire US government against him trying to find evidence to end him, that turned out to be another media hit piece.
          Yes most good businesses try to get their name out their, when my father owned his business he constantly worked to get his companies name out in the open. I’m sorry your unable to understand basic business principles but this simply makes most normal people respect the man.

          His university has not been found guilty of doing anything wrong, again with the full force of the US government against him, if this were the case he would be done.

          Yes when a contractor does a piss poor job you don’t pay, this is called common sense, practice it. I sure as hell have refused to pay for shoddy work, maybe this one is a personal issue of yours?

          • 0 avatar

            They are still investigating Trump actually. He is due in court for TU shortly and the attorney general of NY has but an order on the Trump foundation to stop fund raising until it finishes it’s investigation. But most likely those would just be fines if he loses.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          The last one requires its own post in addition to the one I just posted.

          Have some self respect, you honesty believe that he treated those woman that way? These women have links to the Clinton campaign, so it just magically happens that right before an election a bunch of women come out and say he did “things”. Where were these woman all along? Oh right, living a normal life less the money the Clinton campaign paid them.

          I hope he holds steady to his promise to sue these people for defamation, if we allow lies like that to happen In an election they will become a joke on a world scale.

          Now that I’ve exposed all the CTR shill arguments as they are, could you provide me any evidence that you may have that support the original claim?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “These women have links to the Clinton campaign, so it just magically happens that right before an election a bunch of women come out and say he did “things”. ”

            …just like right before Clinton’s impeachment trial began, someone magically came out of nowhere and said he raped her.

            …and amazingly enough, the same woman magically came out of nowhere AGAIN, right in time for the debates, to make the same accusation.

            But I’m sure she’s not credible. Right?

            Bottom line: if conservatives were that up in arms about Clinton’s wandering schlong and rotten behavior towards women, they should have nominated someone who’d conducted himself as a gentleman. I mean, did John Kasich ever get busted on tape talking about how he moved on someone like a b*tch? Nope. Did Jeb Bush ever get caught talking about how he liked putting his hands in a woman’s pants uninvited? Nope. But that’s not who Republicans wanted – apparently none of those guys trash talked liberals good enough.

            So…take “personal responsibility” already. You wanted a guy with a checkered past with women. You got him. Man up.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Freed, if you still don’t understand why we don’t want Hillary lite AKA Kasich or Jeb! That’s your own fault. But at the end of the day America spoke, we gave Obama 8 years and he has been a miserable failure, you can’t act surprised that we didn’t want 4 more years of that. Trump wasn’t just the only viable candidate but he’s also the candidate that so many of us have waited our whole lives to have. He represents full blown change to a system that has ignored the American people.

            We can see through the blatant lies, it doesn’t work, no one cares what bs allegations you make up. America is going to be pushed into the 21st century whether you like it or not. kicking and screaming doesn’t make Trump look bad it just makes you look uninformed.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Freed, if you still don’t understand why we don’t want Hillary lite AKA Kasich or Jeb! ”

            Oh, I get it, all right. You want a guy who likes blathering…because you blather too. You voted for one of your own. Makes perfect sense.

            Hey, it’s your vote, pal.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Am I talking to a high school student now?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Well, if thinking of me as a high school student makes you feel smarter, go for it, Hummer.

          • 0 avatar
            HotPotato

            “the money the Clinton campaign paid them”
            Do you have evidence of that? Nope, but just telling the lie plants the seed of doubt, doesn’t it? Sheesh, that really IS deplorable behavior.

        • 0 avatar
          yamahog

          “racist: ‘mexico sending us rapists…’”.

          Mexican isn’t a race. And the statement is true so it’s hard to attribute the statement to prejudice or as an important element to a responsible, sound analysis.

          “video evidence of dips hit’s bus-ride with billy bush.”

          The same one where he said, “they let you do it” ? Because if they’re letting him do it, it’s not assault.

          “complaints from about a dozen women who claim to have actually suffered”

          People can claim whatever they want. I’ll take these accusations seriously when they’re made under oath and the claimant would expose themselves to penalty for making an untrue statement.

          • 0 avatar

            He claimed the Mexican government was purposefully sending criminals to the US, in the same way Cuba send Scarface to America in the early 80s film. He never said Mexicans were criminals.

          • 0 avatar
            Xeranar

            No, Mexico is a country but his position on latinos is well known as his repeated statements about the Black population of the United States and the settled-case of discriminatory housing practices. If you’re going to be technical about it, we can just keep pulling up endless soundbites about his racial indiscretions and his broad support of white supremacists.

            Also, it’s pretty clear from the now 14 current accusers that he is in fact a sexual predator. Just like Bill Cosby and other powerful men, just because the women didn’t run to the police and report it doesn’t mean it wasn’t assault.

            Seriously, reading TTAC is a window into the mind of possibly the strangest and most delirious right-wingers of all. They’re less informed than actual trolls and willfully more ignorant than other groups. I want to see how you react when your daughter is sexually assaulted by her boss but because she didn’t want to lose her job she only tells you about it a year later. You going to tell her she had it coming then?

          • 0 avatar
            Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

            “I want to see how you react when your daughter is sexually assaulted…”

            Yabbut your cabal’s concern for his daughter’s health and safety precipitously drops as the perp’s skin darkens so you suck, too.

          • 0 avatar
            Xeranar

            Fridge – You need to make sense, I’m once again not going to bite on some ‘liberals do this!’ argument when you don’t know me well enough to make that claim.

            Good lord, it’s like Reddit types all over again…

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            He’s basically saying leftists are hypocrites regarding your fictional scenario.

            Oh and if you think these people are the strangest and most delirious right wingers of them all you need to get out more Xer. I’d add whatever who/we/they all are, misinformed is generally not the case but more the exception.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        “Can you supply us with any examples of why he is those things or are you just another sheep parroting what your leaders have told you to believe?”

        …because Trump supporters NEVER parroted what someone told them must be true…not one of them.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          Are Trump supporters in the Streets destroying businesses, promoting assassinating the US president, or dragging people down the street?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Are Trump supporters in the Streets destroying businesses, promoting assassinating the US president, or dragging people down the street?”

            Of course not.

            They won.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            How about in 2008 when Obama won, those massive riots in Portland were just horrible, remember that? Me neither.

          • 0 avatar
            56BelAire

            FreedMike posts:

            “Are Trump supporters in the Streets destroying businesses, promoting assassinating the US president, or dragging people down the street?”

            Of course not.

            They won.

            Mike, can you give us a few examples of them doing such things when they lost?

    • 0 avatar
      mikey

      @ fishi ….So we have voted in a leader with zero work experience . A good looking rich kid, with an electable last name. Somewhere along the line , we have gained the smug right / privilege ,of judging our American cousins , for their choice of a leader ???

      I think not.

      • 0 avatar
        Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

        “somewhere along the line , we have gained the smug right / privilege ,of judging our American cousins , for their choice of a leader ??? I think not.”

        Hey, Americans!

        I want this man’s decency, integrity and social savvy duly acknowledged here, yeah?

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      It could be worse – we could be stuck with Trudeau.

  • avatar
    Zykotec

    I think the best, and most accurate, version of an American peoples car would be to literally rebrand a Corolla or Civic, decontent it a bit, and let captured illegal immigrants and muslims build it. Saves development costs, and assembly costs, and stealing was a huge part of the original Beetles development too.
    It’s worth mentioning that it would be a lot more challenging to make a peoples car that works well for all Americans than it was to make one for pre-war Germans. VW would have struggled to sell the original in the US even back in ’38 with it’s anemic flat four, no luggage space, no interior room and an overly complicated design (structurally and mechanically), despite its later reputation for simplicity (which was probably correct compared to American cars in the late 50’s 60’s)
    As for the politics;
    I almost think that at the end of the presidential election the candidates, (or maybe their campaign managers) should be forced to apologize in public for all the stuff they’ve said that was just pure bullshit, or propaganda. Most of us thinking adults around the world can get over all the stuff that’s been said during the last year, but there are still right wing retards out there that have belived that Obama was literally antichrist for the last 8 years, and there will be left wing retards identifying as ponies that will think Trump is literally Hitler and a serial rapist 8 years from now.
    It seems most people (on either side) don’t understand that the campaign hype is similar to the hype we see before fighting events like boxing , wrestling or MMA, and need to be reminded that the election is now over, and we can get on with our everyday lives.

    • 0 avatar
      PJmacgee

      +1 to your last paragraph, if only all the retards on *both* sides would just CTFO (chill TF out)

      So anyway, the perfect ‘merican folks car be a no-content medium/large CUV with the Volt drivetrain. (PSSST, Chevy, WHY DOESN’T THIS ALREADY EXIST??!!)

  • avatar
    IBx1

    Nobody caught on to this; this is the reason why Trump wants Ford to bring back the Focus and Fiesta from Mexico. Specifically the Fiesta. That’s the worker bee car we need!

  • avatar
    punkybrewstershubby aka Troy D.

    They should call it the Fegelein.

  • avatar
    mike1dog

    I noticed that the Trump transition team is talking about putting Jamie Dimon in as treasury secretary. The exact same person Trump called the “worst banker on Wall Street,” and who some people flipped out when the Clinton camp named as possible treasury secretary. I’ve always said Trump was nothing but a con man. I don’t think there’s any chance he’ll do any of the populist things he claimed he was going to do.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I saw that too, but it will probably be this guy:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Mnuchin

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      “I don’t think there’s any chance he’ll do any of the populist things he claimed he was going to do.”

      I don’t think you get it. It’s not whether he DOES the things he said he’d do, it’s whether he keeps “speaking his mind.”

      To many of his core supporters, that’s all need or want to see. It’s kind of like an anti-PC religion.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    The peoples car factory needs to be in California.
    I’m sure there must be a crew of Tesla production studs who could make it happen.

  • avatar
    dukeisduke

    Great stuff, Jack. It’s both clickbait and scroll over territory at the same time.

  • avatar
    zipster

    Real men voted for Trump, mice like me voted for Hillary. Let’s be realistic, the only candidate that could have beat Trump was someone as obnoxious as him. The tough guys (and women) were going to vote for him no matter how many deplorable things he said. We have tough people in this country and by god, they know what they are doing. Us mice know our rightful place and we can only cower.

    Lets have this conversation in four years, Jack. Who will you be blaming then? You supported W and among other things he spend $2 Trillion and nearly 5000 lives on the Iraq war and doubled the national debt. Perhaps by now you might realize your political judgement is not superb, but you can always blame the “liberals”

    • 0 avatar
      Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

      “mice like me voted for Hillary”

      Me too!

      But now I’m bored again and only care about who Whitey will run in ’24 against Kaepernick.

    • 0 avatar
      56BelAire

      @Zipster,

      FYI #1. Under Obama, America has been at war for roughly 2,850 days…. that’s longer than under “W” or any other POTUS in American history.

      FYI #2. Under Bush roughly 200,000 troops were in Iraq and Afghanistan and 5,000 died. Under Obama less than 14,000 are there and 2,500+ and counting have died. Wouldn’t like the odds if I was deployed there now.

      FYI #3. Under Obama we have conducted air strikes and drone strikes in 7 countries: Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen, Libya and Somalia. That’s 3 more countries than Bush. Combatant and civilian death toll continues to mount.

      FYI #4. Obama’s unwise decision to rapidly remove over 90% of the troops from Iraq left a huge vacuum which created the barbaric death cult, ISIS.

      • 0 avatar
        zipster

        You forget that it was Bush and the neocons (perhaps like yourself) that thought Iraq would be a good idea. Do you even know which president voted as a senator not to go in there? As bad as Sadaam was, most informed observers believe that he was considerably better than ISIS. Did you volunteer to be part of the occupation of Iraq?

        By the way, who do you think formed Isis? Obama or Hillary? Your man said that it was Obama, but he also said that it was Hillary. Surely you believe it was one or both of them?

        • 0 avatar
          56BelAire

          Zipster,

          “You forgot that is was Bush and the neocons(perhaps like yourself) that thought Iraq would be a good idea.”

          Nope, guess again. I personally feel it is far better to let the medieval barbarians in the middle east kill each other unabated.

          “Do you even know which president voted as a senator not to go in there?”

          As far as I know NO president voted as a US senator not to go in there. I do know that senators; Clinton, Biden and Kerry all voted TO GO in there.

          I agree Saddam was better than ISIS.

          “Did you volunteer to be part of the occupation of Iraq?”

          No, too old….was in ‘Nam though. My son-in-law did one tour in Iraq and two in Afghanistan and at age 46 is still in the Army active reserve.

          “Who do you think formed ISIS?”

          Easy, both.

          Any more questions?

      • 0 avatar
        Xeranar

        1 – Yes, wars Bush started. You don’t get to end them just because you want to. Things have to find a stable end, jackass…..

        2 – Uh, again, it was clean up crew deaths. It was more hit-and-run tactics by that point. Good lord, you are a daft little one aren’t you.

        3 – Drone strikes were and are effective. Not my favorite topic but you somehow think Trump & the neocon brigade are going to shelve them forever?

        4 – Not really, ISIS more or less emerged when Al Qaeda collapsed on itself and got lucky that the Syrian civil war allowed them to destabilize the upper-part of Iraq & most of Syria. I mean, blaming Obama is silly, technically they were only able to destabilize the situation because Bush started the whole mess.

        Conveniently you left out how Bush LOWERED taxes so that he basically put the entire cost of the war on the debt. Remind me again what Trump is planning to do in 4 years when the deficit grows again under his administration and our debt jumps over 24 Trillion then?

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al From 'Murica

      “You supported W and among other things he spend $2 Trillion and nearly 5000 lives on the Iraq war and doubled the national debt.”

      Which is why I voted for the candidate that was against the war early…not the one that voted to authorize it.

  • avatar
    threeer

    Good grief…I come to this site specifically to NOT have to read about politics. There are plenty of sites out there where one can bash your head against the proverbial wall discussing politics. Sad TYaC felt the need to go there.

    As for a US “People’s Car,” I just don’t see it. Folks are too independent to want to buy into a cookie-cutter car that looks the same as every other car in their neighborhood (well, unless it turns out to be a $7999 SUV!).

    • 0 avatar
      Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

      Like Trump, Baruth knows where the leadheads are and how to rile ’em!

      Don’t begrudge him his clicks.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        It’s a better political discussion here than anywhere else. About 95% of the posters are decent to talk to.

        …and I even enjoy conversing with Hummer’s tinfoil hat. It’s quite witty.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      I’m sure we’ll get away from the politics next week (until Steph posts another conspiracy theory-based post or Bark another rant). But everyone on every site is discussing nothing but politics this week.

      I mean, Trump vs. Hillary and all the cultural baggage that implies on both sides, with the polls all 4+ points off and an electoral/popular vote mismatch? It’s like the biggest political event a screenwriter could think of.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        USC poll had Trump right there. (Even after changing the formula to help crooked)

        The polls were clearly cooked, In Arizona in order to give Hillary a 1 point lead they had D+28.

        Anyone that looked at the polling Methods from RCP RSC Fox CNN etc knew that they were full of crap.

        Us at r/The_Donald have known for 3 months that this was going to be a landslide, the only thing we got wrong was Nevada, which coincidentally kept the polls open past closing time, some loopy stuff.
        We were also watching Broward county (Florida, home of DebbieWS) where the FBI discovered a DNC poll worker that had faked 10,000 ballots, and were fully expecting more crap especially since they were the last to fully report all votes.

        • 0 avatar
          brenschluss

          “This is simple stuff it’s the difference between they’re and their.”

          “USC poll had Trump right their. (Even after changing the formula to help crooked)”

          Dude.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            I accept blame, but in my defense I doubt you’ll use that example to call me what ever -ist -ism -it etc as people have done to Trump.

            But I will edit it their –> there

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          “Us at r/The_Donald”

          Where you have more expertise than all of the professional pollsters in the business. Next you’ll be building Mars rockets and holodecks.

          They’re still analyzing, but the issue looks pretty straightforward at this point: Dems didn’t turn out at the same rate they had in the past six or so presidential elections. That’s a pretty natural mistake, not “cooking” or “rigging.”

  • avatar
    319583076

    If this country’s going to make any progress, we’re going to have to do something about all of these delusional fanatics.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    Trump Motors would produce losses, pay no taxes and stiff its suppliers before filing bankruptcy several times over. The cars would be gaudy and owning one would be an indication of bad taste. Imagine a Mitsubishi Eclipse, but made by incompetent people.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Neither Hillary or Trump were ideal candidates. Not fair to just single out Trump for inappropriate remarks and behavior. “Half the Trump supporters are a basket of deplorables.” It is one thing to call your opponent a liar, crooked, dangerous, or any other derogatory term but to call American voters names is about the worst insult one can make. A middle class worker who supported Trump should not be called names for his or her beliefs and neither should any voter regardless of who they support.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Here is an interesting link as to what went wrong with the Hillary campaign. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-11-11/revenge-of-the-deplorables

  • avatar
    jpolicke

    The last thing in the world poor people want is a car designed for and marketed to poor people. They would rather get a semi-clean ’96 Lexus from the BHPH than be seen in a losermobile.

  • avatar
    xtoyota

    OK ENOUGH ABOUT THE ELECTION ….. It’S OVER… HE won
    IF THIS POLITICAL B.S. DOESN’T BELONG ON A CAR FORUM

    I HAS TO PUT UP WITH CONSTANT POLITICAL CRAP FOR OVER A YEAR
    I DON”T NEED IT ANYMORE
    HE WON GET OVER IT
    Lets get back to talking about cars

  • avatar
    skor

    America already had its “People’s Car” and it predated the Beetle, it was called the Model T.

    When Hitler and his Nazi street thug buddies attempted to overthrow the legitimate German government in a failed ‘Beer Hall Putsch’, Hitler was sent to prison. At the time Germany had a government that we would describe as being ‘progressive’. It was felt that criminals needed to be reformed instead of punished. Hitler spent his year in prison receiving visitors, reading and writing. People generally know that he wrote Mein Kampf while in the nice, Weimar era time-out hotel, but few people know what he read. He read books like The International Jew, by Henry Ford.

    Hitler was astonished to learn that Crazy Ol’ Henry was a corn-fed, countrified, Jew-hatin’ kindred spirit. Hitler then decided that he wanted to do for Germany what Henry did for Murica: Put an automobile within grasp of the average Joe…er, Johan, and spread Jew-hatin’ far and wide. The Volkswagen was birthed by the Model T. Oh, when Paul von Hindenburg handed the keys to the Reichstag over to AH, one of the first things Der Fuhrer did was to send a spiffy medal….with cool swastikas and everything…to Ford, which Crazy Henry gleefully accepted.

    BTW, keep in mind that the early Nazis had more in common with communists than with fascists. Hitler hated the USSR and feared Stalin, but despised the USA and its capitalist system, which he described as ‘degenerate’. Hitler & Co. would have had the dim, buffoonish Trump stood up against a wall and shot.

    To quote Kasper Gutman, “These are facts, historical facts, not schoolbook history, not Mr. Wells’ history, but history nevertheless.”

    As for a modern ‘People’s Car’ to boost the economy, it’s not needed. With the advent of self-driving cars, auto ownership will cease to be a thing in the not too distant future. Self-driving cars make car sharing schemes doable for the first time ever. Car sharing will smooth out the boom-bust cycles of auto-production which automakers have been trying to figure out since there have been automakers. Car sharing and self driving will lower the costs of transportation and put more money in the hands of consumers to spend elsewhere. If Trump had any brains, he’d hire some smart people to speed up the reality of self-driving cars.

    • 0 avatar

      The International Jew was written by Ernest Liebold, Henry Ford’s personal secretary, who was a more virulent Jew hater than Henry, whose prejudices were typical of a farm boy without much education. Henry was likely dyslexic, on the stand in his libel suit against a Chicago newspaper he was shown to barely be able to read, and he was known to prefer wooden models to blueprints.

      Hitler came to power in 1933. Ford was awarded the Grand Cross of the German Eagle in 1938 (shortly followed by Liebold getting his own Nazi medal).

      • 0 avatar
        skor

        Everyone knows that most of the Jew hatin’ rants that appeared in the Dearborn Independent with Henry’s by-line were actually ghost written. So what? Without Henry’s approval, and checks, it would have never seen the light of day.

    • 0 avatar
      Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

      “Hitler & Co. would have had the dim, buffoonish Trump stood up against a wall and shot.”

      Oh, hell no. You don’t throw away a hammer just because you can’t weld with it. Trump would’ve been far too easily manipulable to waste. Just think of Jules Streicher.

      If the Multiverse theory is correct then somewhere there is a world where Goebbels brings The Donald to Berlin once a month just to play with him while local Bonzen get to watch.

      And speaking of the easily manipulable, look at us.
      200 comments at present for Baruth’s latest bait-waver.

      • 0 avatar
        Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

        Oops… JulIUS Streicher.

        Just because he showed what happens when your culture viciously represses gay homosexuals, that’s no excuse for my getting his name wrong.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      Hitler believed that Jews were evil socialists who controlled the banking system and wanted to use it in order to enslave the good Aryans. (No, that doesn’t really make any sense, but not much of this ever does.)

      The Nazis were not opposed to business or private property, but they were opposed to Bolsheviks and socialists.

      • 0 avatar
        skor

        No, Hitler believed that Jews used whatever political/economic system advanced their agenda of world dominance.

        The Nazis were socialists, The word ‘Nazi’ is a portmanteau of ‘national’ and ‘socialist’. Hitler hated the aristocratic class, hated capitalism and reluctantly entered into an agreement with German industrialists because he had to.

        • 0 avatar
          Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

          NAZIS WERE THE COOLEST WHITE MEN EVER AND WE ALWAYS WANNA TALK ABOUT ‘EM!!!!!!!!

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          Here we go again…

          Socialists want to nationalize industry and make private property public. The Nazis did neither of those things to any great degree.

          There was a socialist party in Germany. It was one of the only organizations that made an effort to stop Hitler before he came into power. Hitler promptly banned it when he had the chance.

          The Nazis did not have a particularly coherent economic philosophy, but Hitler hated the banks as do other anti-Semites. Henry Ford hated the banks, too, and he was certainly no socialist.

          Hitler was attracted to the anti-Semitism and anti-Marxism of the Worker’s Party that he was initially hired to investigate but that he joined and later led. Opposition to socialism is an integral part of Nazi philosophy; it is seen as being part of the Jewish banking conspiracy that is intended to impoverish you and force you into becoming a victim of socialism.

          Some of you folks need to figure out that there are alternatives to capitalism and socialism. Being opposed to banks doesn’t make you a socialist. I’ve defined socialism above, and that ain’t on the list.

  • avatar
    CriticalMass

    If we could move this in a more macro direction…..

    At base root my impression is that this crazy election was an utter rebuke of cosmopolitanism. The US elects people who swear to serve the American people. Cosmopolitans see only license to proceed with the further integration of the world rather than carry out that sworn fiduciary responsibility first and be seen as doing so. Both parties have failed in that responsibility and a breakdown of trust is the result. All of our collective he/she invective is just noise.

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    I don’t like Trump’s language during election cycle. I am not talking about how he connects to regular Joes. I actually like that. I am not for language where he puts down so many minority segments. While I am a firm believer of needing to have the wall and border security, I don’t think we need to put every segment of population down. We all share this great country.

    Having said that, what he said about trade, is what convinced me he is worth a try. To me Hillary only paid lip service to being against trade deals and helping US manufacturing and only after her hand was forced by Bernie and Trump. Fact she never visited Wisconsin and only at the end visited Michigan speaks to how out of touch she is. She rather be on stage with George Clooney and JayZ and Beyonce than spend time with real people.

    Trump does deserve a chance and current demonstrations while legal, need to stop. We just had a election and the man won. Now we see how much was bluster and how much is real.

    • 0 avatar
      don1967

      Even the minority put-downs were media concoctions; snippets of sentences taken grossly out of context.

      There simply is no way for Trump to acknowledge the existence of border-crossing criminals, or to talk off-the-record about groupie women, without somebody capturing and twisting his words into a racist declaration or admission of sexual assault. Proof is no longer required… just say “Trump” and sheep everywhere roll their eyes and go into fits of mock outrage. Meanwhile Hillary throws 59 million people into her “basket of deplorables” and the tolerant left just snickers.

      Fortunately this era is coming to an end. Democracy’s like that.

      • 0 avatar
        Zykotec

        I honestly think Trump made sure that most of his sentences were open for interpretation both ways. Personally I think the ‘best’ one was the one with the 2nd amendment guys, which I took to mean that people who want guns wouldn’t vote for Hillary, lots of other people (who should technicallt be on my side) took it as meaning something a lot worse…
        As someone who didn’t support him at all before he won, I’m genuinely impressed at the way he has played the media and his opponents ever since he first decided to join the primaries. I’m further left than most people who read these pages, and I think he won fairly and should be given a chance.

      • 0 avatar
        Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

        “twisting his words into a racist declaration or admission of sexual assault”

        I agree that flagging “grab them by the pussy” as sexual assault is laughably simplistic and reveals complete ignorance of contextual nuance.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Trump did insult the electorate as well, but Hillary calling half the Trump supporters a basket of deplorables struck a chord in many in that it reaffirmed their belief that the Washington elites were out of touch with much of America. The rhetoric was heated and inappropriate on both sides leaving a bad taste for most of the public for either candidate. The election is over and Trump is our President elect. In 4 years there is another election.

    I didn’t vote for Trump either but he won and we should move on and give him a chance.

  • avatar
    thelastdriver

    After all these comments I can’t believe nobody’s mentioned the last government designed vehicle Americans commonly see on the roads — Grumman LLV.

    If you compare the LLV’s drivetrain to Soviet contemporaries (Lada, etc) it’s very much the same — a race to the bottom in creature comforts to achieve an economical and reliable vehicle. Very “agricultural” driving experience.

  • avatar
    scuzimi

    OMG…JACK! It’s back. NFA! I thought we killed that high school crap Jackass? Come on man you seem stuck in a rut.

    Seems the more I piss you off the longer your novels get. Trump is a human turd. Is he Hitler? I think Hitler would be angered by the comparison.

    I’m sure there are a lot of folks here who love and think you are wonderful but I think you should try another line of work like maybe changing plugs at a FCA plant.

  • avatar
    scuzimi

    My comment is waiting moderation… snicker. Jack you can’t take the heat man can you… ;-)

  • avatar
    Zykotec

    A bit too late maybe, but I decided I needed to check the prices for 11 year old F-150’s and depending on equipment they seem to land somewhere around the set price for a peoples car by Jacks standards in this article. Conincidence?

  • avatar
    fendertweed

    Some might suggest that anyone who thinks Americans exercising their First Amendment rights to speak out in protest are “spoiled brats” might — in the words of Trump — “go f[o]ck themselves.”

    I’m not saying that, but I’ve heard … well, you know…

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    As most realise I’m what’s termed a economic liberal, not a neo-con ultra right winger.

    The US had a poor selection of candidates to choose from.

    Trump has no hope in fulfilling his promises. The manufacturing jobs will go over time. This is occurring globally.

    China has lost 30 million factory jobs in the past decade.

    It’s ironic when many commenters and journos on this site talk up the USA (I can also group Australia, NZ,UK, actually all free Western countries) as a superior society and think others should “be like us” cry when these countries who aspire to what we have/achieved are competitive.

    If we want others to be like us, then be prepared to compete. Let’s not go around supressing those who can help us become better and richer.

    Let’s show leadersip, if we don’t and we become insular the Chinese will win out.

    Take the TPP. If the US walks away many countries will look to the Chinese to fill the void.

    The US doesn’t have the proportionate economic leverage it had several decades ago. The US will not be able to set the rules to suit itself.

    Trump protectionism couple with a more isolated stance will empower the Chinese.

    • 0 avatar

      I think Australia already has sided with China. Australia’s well being depends more on China than US. Unlike US China is a manufacturing superpower and resource hungry country. Philippines also switched sides. Only American ally left in that neighborhood is Japan which has no confidence (and rightly so) in Amrica. US have no allies in ME and European allies are impotent and weak.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        Inside Looking Out,
        You are either trolling or your knowledge of geopolitics is quite limited.

        In the US-Australia Alliance the US is the beneficiary in economic, military and political terms. This alliance is closer than the US-Japanese Alliance.

        The US imports 10 times less Australian product than we accept from the US.

        I would also assume the US has much larger financial and business interest with the Chinese.

        We are a country where we export more to China than we import.

        Nice try.

        • 0 avatar

          Wake up man. Thats the whole point – Australia have negative trade balance with US since can offer only natural resources for export which US does not need but China ready to pay for. Time will come and Australia will have to make hard choice. Turkey is also US ally but it has sided with Russia and blamed US in supporting military coup because their well being depends on Russia and not US.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Inside Looking Out,
            We tend to export space/aircraft parts, automotive equipment, lots of beef and wine to the US.

            As for Australia’s position with the Chinese is a balancing act. Your view that Australia will buddy up to the Chinese is false. Read up and understand the US-Australia Alliance. It’s most likely the closest relationship between two countries.

            Our trade with China indirectly benefits the US. China gives us the money to buy US goods and services.

            The US needs to be careful how it manages it relationship with the Chinese and others. The US needs others as it always has done.

            China is using soft power with many Pacific Island nations. The TTP if it fails will allow the Chinese an increased level of influence, greater than the US.

            The US and its allies will “lose” the Pacific.

          • 0 avatar

            Okay. I am not alone. This a first link I found on google.com:

            http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-australia-usa-idUSKCN1173AX

            “I think the Australians need to make a choice … it’s very difficult to walk this fine line between balancing the alliance with the United States and the economic engagement with China,” Hanson said on Australian Broadcasting Corp. Radio.

            “China is Australia’s biggest trading partner and a large source of foreign investment, spending $11.1 billion on Australian assets, mostly property, in 2015, accounting and advisory firm KPMG and the University of Sydney have said.”

            Of course US Government will deny that but China will rachet up pressure on Australia don’t doubt that.

            From Washington Post most respected newspaper in US right now:

            “Australia has a split personality when it comes to China: Government officials stress the importance of their strategic alliance with the United States, even if it upsets Beijing. But business leaders argue that Australia must accommodate the reality of China’s overwhelming economic power in Asia.”

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/chinas-rise-presents-a-dillemma-for-australia/2016/08/23/38d8027c-6942-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            I do think you don’t have an accurate picture. The US Australia relationship is one of the tightest between two nations.

            As I more or less pointed out. The US needs Australia. The Chinese also need Australia.

            Australia is in an enviable position. Not many countries are in our position.

            The US or the Chinese will not force Australia into an ultimatum. It would damage both countries.

            This is why my view that the US (Trump) had his hands tied, not just with Australia, but globally.

            If the US walks away you can kiss your current stansard of living goodbye and the current level of power/influence the US has.

            Many people the US’s power lies in its military, this is not so. The power lies in trade. Reduce this a powerful military is not needed.

  • avatar

    It is a great day in America – one half of population is in the war with another. I never seen a country as divided as America. Important thing though is that Hillary with her war mongering did not get elected. If she was elected there would be war with Russia and I can assure you Russia most like would win because unlike America Russia is a united country and Russians can fight for their country last man standing as Germans found out hard way.

    • 0 avatar
      Old Man Pants (nee Kenmore)

      If you smoke & drink here like you did in Russia you probably won’t reach 60.

      Any plans for heading back homesky while you still can?

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      If Russia was united why do Putin’s political competitors disappear?

      Do you really want the US to be like Russia? Most live like sh!t and would rather be in the US.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @BAFO – “Most live like sh!t”…. that is a result of Russia adopting neoliberal policies. The populace is worse off now than when it was communist. The difference between the USA and Russia is that in Russia you can’t vote the government out or if you dissent you disappear.

        What we have seen with the election of Trump is democracy at work. The middle-class worker has grown tired of getting fVcked over by neoliberalism. In the USA people can vote for change.

        Whether or not it happens is a different story.

        • 0 avatar
          fendertweed

          Like so many of the comments on this thread, this sounds like vapid, finger on the scale, delusional foreign relations analysis tripe.

          Putin policies = “neoliberal”? Good lord, man, you must be on some seriously bad acid to come up with that kind of neo-craptastic fantasy drivel.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @fendertweed – Sigh! Maybe if I type more slowly……

            Russia adopted neoliberal trade policies which hurt the middle class and poor but made Putin and his cronies rich.

            China implemented neoliberal policies for trade and deregulation of the economy. The Tiananmen Square protests were just as much about the suffering of the middle class and lower classes due to those policies as they were about freedom of speech etc.

          • 0 avatar
            fendertweed

            @Lou_BC

            Type as slow as you like, maybe even slow it down to the speed of your thought… but you are still spewing utter drivel. You use “neoliberal” as some kind of talismanic thing but it’s just masking your disregard for the abject situation Russians were in before… If you want to suck up to Putin and his useful fool, Trump, go ahead and give him internet BJs all day long. But don’t expect shallow analysis like that to be convincing. Same thought as to you supposedly authoritative analysis of the cause of China’s protests.

            Trump captured many fed up middle class voters. He also normalized and appealed to racists and haters of all stripes, he was a veritable bigot magnet.

            I suspect many of both (“normal” middle class and the bigots) will be appalled as he shucks & jives his way into various repudiations of his campaign statements. And some will laugh at them as they seethe in horror while we also empathize with them having been conned at the same time.

            But there is no way IMO that anyone who cares about the Constitution should be happy that the candidate endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party won the election. No one who voted for Trump can compartmentalize or rationalize their way out of complicity for that loathsome accomplishment.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @fendertweed – What makes you think I’m ” masking your disregard for the abject situation Russians were in before”??
            Putin is a conservative that leans towards “laissez faire” in trade and markets. That has made things worse for many in Russia. Yes, I agree that things were not great to begin with. Same can be said for China.
            I did not say that “laissez faire” aka neoliberal trade and market polices caused the protests in China. Far from it. Opening the markets in China made things worse for the poor and middle class. That was a component of the unrest. It was under-reported in the West read USA since they were/are proponents of open unregulated trade especially if it benefits US companies or elites.

            Somehow along the way you have assumed that I’m pro-Trump and pro-protectionism. Far from it. I’m pointing out that the backlash and rise of Trump is due in part to neoliberal read conservative trade polices that have screwed many in the middle class in favour of the wealthy elites.

            Protectionism does not work either. Cuba and USSR are examples of an overly “protected” state. There does need to be laws in place that allow for the markets to “do their thing” but also provide some protection for workers and the poor.

            I do think that Trump’s strategy was extremely effective. How does a “born into money” billionaire convince the disenfranchised middle class that he is not from the wealthy and/or political elites? Shoot your mouth off and go after the traditional Republican establishment and be as politically incorrect as possible to mock the left and lull the left into believing he was un-electable.

            Some say Trump is a sh!tty business man but great at branding. That is why he won. He was able to sell the populace on his alleged “brand” of leadership.

            I believe that he does not give a sh!t about the group that he alleges to defend.

            https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/285124

            Time will tell if he “Makes America Great Again”.

            I seriously doubt it since it appears that his most probable political appointees will be Republican “old guard”.

            Building walls either figuratively or legislatively will just subject the middle-class to more doom and gloom.

            Any extreme does not help the middle-class. Balance is what is needed. Trump, if he does what he says he will do will push things too far one way.

          • 0 avatar
            fendertweed

            @Lou_BC, Thanks for your reply.

            I don’t think using “neoliberal” advances the point or is necessarily accurate (I studied poli sci etc., but tend to reject such labeling as often not helpful) — but I agree with almost everything in your last post (11/14/16 10:21 pm).

        • 0 avatar
          RobertRyan

          @Lou_BC
          I predicted Trump would win. What surprised me was the anger expressed by US friends in Australia, about how dysfunctional things had become in the US. Looney Laizze Faiire Economic policies were digging the whole country into a large hole.

    • 0 avatar
      fendertweed

      Putin’s butt-boy (Trump) is in place to do Vlad’s bidding … A “polizniye duraki” (“useful fool” – a well known concept in Russia for many years, dating back to pre-Soviet time) in place in the USA thanks to Russian manipulation of the American election.

      One does not have to have any positive view of Clinton to observe that this is what happened, completely aside from which candidate (or none of them) one might have favored.

      Putin got exactly what he wants, de-stabilization and continued strife in the US to weaken it and give him greater latitude. Not to mention that he and China probably have Trump by the financial balls, but of course, since no relevant information there has been shared with the American people, the low-information voters went for the bait and took the con.

      “It is the utter mediocrity of nearly everyone that explains the world around us.” – Prof. Irving Younger

    • 0 avatar

      Woa, what a wonderful place is TTAC – so many self-appointed armchair experts in Russian policy, history and culture! You guys are so well informed deep thinkers!

  • avatar
    wumpus

    Message to Mr. Trump. We have cars. We’ve had cars since Hank Ford dreamed up the model T.

    If you want to be a proper 21st century tyrant, we need a people’s *plane*. Preferably with autopilot enabled because I live in Maryland and don’t want Marylanders flying over my home.

    This message is about a week late because it didn’t hit me until now (when I looked at the subtitle).

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